S/O on guns in the home situation

[Tenaj]

I grew up in a home with guns (hunting rifles, shotguns, bb guns, pellet guns, - no hand guns) and we were well-trained to LEAVE THEM ALONE. I have three younger brothers and to my knowledge, none of us ever touched the guns except under supervision and I can tell you that they were NOT locked up, they were in a gun rack on our back porch above the deep-freezer. I had friends in and out of the house, my brothers had friends in and out of the house, and none of them, none of us ever even discussed the fact that there were guns hanging there in plain sight.

 

I'm just wondering what has changed from that time-period to this? My family's home wasn't unusual in this situation - I can think of a handful of homes of my friends with the same set-up and can remember no incidents where it was an issue. Why do we now panic at the thought of our children being in the same house as a gun or even seeing a gun?

 

We have no guns now but I know that I would have them locked up tight if we did so I'm not questioning the wisdom of the current practice - just musing as to the way times change and why that particular change has happened relatively fast in this society.

 

Any thoughts?

[LibraryLover]

I grew up in a home with guns (hunting rifles, shotguns, bb guns, pellet guns, - no hand guns) and we were well-trained to LEAVE THEM ALONE. I have three younger brothers and to my knowledge, none of us ever touched the guns except under supervision and I can tell you that they were NOT locked up, they were in a gun rack on our back porch above the deep-freezer. I had friends in and out of the house, my brothers had friends in and out of the house, and none of them, none of us ever even discussed the fact that there were guns hanging there in plain sight.

 

I'm just wondering what has changed from that time-period to this? My family's home wasn't unusual in this situation - I can think of a handful of homes of my friends with the same set-up and can remember no incidents where it was an issue. Why do we now panic at the thought of our children being in the same house as a gun or even seeing a gun?

 

We have no guns now but I know that I would have them locked up tight if we did so I'm not questioning the wisdom of the current practice - just musing as to the way times change and why that particular change has happened relatively fast in this society.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

There were gun accidents in the past. More children might have been more familiar with guns, but plenty of kids were killed or harmed accidently even back then.

[Laura Corin]

I think that the longer lifespans in the West become, and the safer our lives are, the more risk-averse we seem. Risks that were considered normal when I was small are now guarded against with zeal. I compare this to people in China, whose lives are much more dangerous and short, but who accept enormous risks as a normal part of life.

 

I'm not saying I would swap Western thought habits for Chinese ones, but the comparison is interesting.

 

Laura

[Desert Rat]

Personal experience has shaped my opinion of gun safety. I think kids are curious and many don't grow up around guns so they are interested in them. We've taken our boys to Bass Pro Shops and let them hold guns and fire bb guns in an effort to demistify them.

ITA that the trends in gun safety are following the new seat belt/booster seat/car seat laws. Safer toy regulations, crib safety and playground safety. We just know more now. Although looking back at how I was raised, by current standards, I wouldn't have made it. LOL

[Kathy in MD]

I think that the longer lifespans in the West become, and the safer our lives are, the more risk-averse we seem. Risks that were considered normal when I was small are now guarded against with zeal. I compare this to people in China, whose lives are much more dangerous and short, but who accept enormous risks as a normal part of life.

 

I'm not saying I would swap Western thought habits for Chinese ones, but the comparison is interesting.

 

Laura

 

:iagree:

 

I think also that the increase in national statistics, and increased news coverage has also made us more aware of danger.

[Orthodox6]

Very, very wild guesses here.

 

Guns were part of everyday life because of hunting. To a lesser extent, used for protection. Accidents occurred, of course; however, the "general public" had a higher knowledge level of guns and of gun safety.

 

Now, that general knowledge is greatly diminished. Also, guns are used more for mindless violence by a greater number of people who are part of a far larger population count.

 

Lastly, as already posted, the U.S. is in a "legislate life down to the molecular level" mentality.

[Ottakee]

My dh used to take his gun to SCHOOL. Back then, many of the boys took their guns to school and went target practicing, etc. after school. Dh is only 43 so this wasn't that long ago either. Now days he would be expelled.

 

Now we have kids driving with talking/texting causing accidents and death.

[asta]

My mother had us convinced that, if we so much as touched one of her coveted Craftsman tools (especially the alluring tape measure) we would be vaporized on contact.

 

I don't think it's guns, I think it is an abdication of parental influence.

 

Then again, I attribute most problems to that...

 

 

a

[Peek a Boo]

I think it's similar to the "don't let kids wander so far from home" mentality too.

 

we are aware of more preventive practices that can get children to adulthood.

It seems prudent to act on that knowledge.

[Audrey]

The gun thing comes up pretty regularly. If you are interested in some of the melee that results from this topic, see threads at:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93491&highlight=guns

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91375&highlight=guns

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91645&highlight=guns

 

That's just for starters. ;)

[PineFarmMom]

We too grew up with guns. I never touched one until my dad took me for shooting practice once, and that was the only time I would do it. My brother and sister were the same. My brother was big into hunting, but that's the only time he used them. We just knew not to mess with them. Never did I or my siblings have a friend who was curious and wanted to "play" with them. We just knew from our parents not to mess with them. My dad even gave me a gun to take to college with me. He showed me how to use it and wanted me to have it for protection. I've touched it twice.

 

We have guns. We have them hidden and locked up and the kids don't even know where they are and express no interest. They just come out when it's time to go hunting. I think it's just been so pushed in the news the past few years that it appears different to us now.

[LizzyBee]

I've thought about this too. I can't remember my parents ever telling me not to touch the guns, but I didn't. I think because we were around them all the time and we shot them when appropriate, they didn't hold any mystique. There was nothing to be curious about, because we knew what they were, what they were used for, how they felt, etc.

 

I'm trying to remember any incidents of kids being killed or injured because of playing with guns in our area when I was growing up. I can't remember any. The only accidents I can remember occurred during hunting. Some dufus shot his gun across a road and hit a kid in a truck, and my brother shot himself when he was driving a tractor, hit the brake, and the brake pedal hit the hammer on the gun and caused the gun to go off. He nearly died, but he got his draft notice a week later (it was 1968), so that accident may have actually saved his life. Visiting him in the hospital is my first memory of my brother, so if he had died, I wouldn't even remember him.

 

I remember far more farming accidents than gun accidents.

[Starr]

Guns were part of everyday living when I was a teen and there were accidents and almost accidents.

[bairnmama]

Guns weren't mysterious then. They were a tool (and still are for many of us) that parents taught their children to use carefully just like my dh gives careful instruction and supervision with power tools and yard tools.

 

Your friends growing up didn't give your family's guns a second thought because they probably had a similar gun rack and instruction. As our country gets more urbanized and hunting becomes more difficult and expensive there are less guns used on a regular basis and the children are not exposed to them as a tool, only as something "forbidden".

 

As guns move from keeping company with things like a hot stove or a combine they move into the realm of off-limits things like drugs and beer. Going from "tool" to "temptation" has its bad points.

 

:iagree: I never had guns in my house growing up, but almost everyone else in my town did either for hunting or for removing pest animals (mostly rats) from ranchland. (There was also very little crime in that town... whether it was because the town was small or because everyone knew almost everyone had a gun and wouldn't hesitate to use it, I don't know.) Guns were no more tempting to experiment with than the lawnmower or chainsaw... you knew their purpose was to kill whatever they were aimed at and so treated them with respect.

 

My dc have been surrounded by guns from the time they were born (Daddy's military & a hunter), have seen first hand what they are used for, and know to keep hands off unless Daddy is instructing them about cleaning or safety. The guns have never been locked away. On the contrary, their dad insists on keeping one by the bed and one near every outside door because you never know when you might need one.

[angela in ohio]

I don't think it's guns, I think it is an abdication of parental influence.

 

Then again, I attribute most problems to that...

 

 

a

 

:iagree: and so do I...

[pqr]

 

Unfortunately lack of knowlege, and base hysteria result in people making assumptions that are simply not true.

 

 

 

 

You are far safer with a firearm in your house than with a swimming pool. Your child is more likely to die when climbing a tree, ladder stairs etc than from a firearm.

 

 

 

What these numbers do not take into account is the (far harder to measure) number of lives SAVED by having a firearm in the house.

 

 

The numbers below are from 2007.

 

 

 

 

 

Comparing firearm accident rates (fatalities per 100,000) to other accidental death rates:

NATIONWIDE

1. Motor vehicle accidents 15.3

2. Poisoning 7.1

3. Falls 6.4

4. Suffocation & Choking 2.0

5. Drowning 1.1

6. Fires & Burns 1.1

7. Medical "Misadventures" 0.9

8. Environmental factors 0.5

9. Bicycles & Tricycles 0.26

10. FIREARMS 0.25

 

 

 

 

Comparing the number of fatal firearm accidents to other accidents:

NATIONWIDE

61 times more die in motor vehicle accidents

32 times more die from poisoning

29 times more die from falls

9 times more die from choking & suffocation

5 times more die from drowning

5 times more die from fires

4 times more die from medical "misadventures"

2 times more die from environmental factors

1.3 times more die from bicycles & tricycles

 

 

Edited July 17, 2009 by pqr

[OHGrandma]

I grew up in a home with guns (hunting rifles, shotguns, bb guns, pellet guns, - no hand guns) and we were well-trained to LEAVE THEM ALONE. I have three younger brothers and to my knowledge, none of us ever touched the guns except under supervision and I can tell you that they were NOT locked up, they were in a gun rack on our back porch above the deep-freezer. I had friends in and out of the house, my brothers had friends in and out of the house, and none of them, none of us ever even discussed the fact that there were guns hanging there in plain sight.

 

I'm just wondering what has changed from that time-period to this? My family's home wasn't unusual in this situation - I can think of a handful of homes of my friends with the same set-up and can remember no incidents where it was an issue. Why do we now panic at the thought of our children being in the same house as a gun or even seeing a gun?

 

We have no guns now but I know that I would have them locked up tight if we did so I'm not questioning the wisdom of the current practice - just musing as to the way times change and why that particular change has happened relatively fast in this society.

 

Any thoughts?

 

We fear that which we don't understand. As the need for guns for survival has rapidly diminished, people have little understanding of them, so they fear them.

[pqr]

. The thought of all of my neighbors with guns scares the crap out of me. And what would be the purpose of the guns? .

 

 

Well how about:

 

1. Self Defense

2. Collecting

3. Hunting

4. Target shooting

5. Job related

6. Someting that one uses to teach children gun safety

7. Family heirloom

8. A means of exercising a Constitutional right

 

 

What scares me is when a neighbour takes it upon himself to determine what I should have in my house or why I should have it.

 

 

When I think of guns it reminds me to thank God that I live in a country where I am FREE and where I can own them.

 

For me, having lived in nations where one can not own guns, guns equate to FREEDOM.

 

James Madison wrote: "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms."

Edited July 16, 2009 by pqr

[lgm]

I grew up in a home with guns (hunting rifles, shotguns, bb guns, pellet guns, - no hand guns) and we were well-trained to LEAVE THEM ALONE. I have three younger brothers and to my knowledge, none of us ever touched the guns except under supervision and I can tell you that they were NOT locked up, they were in a gun rack on our back porch above the deep-freezer. I had friends in and out of the house, my brothers had friends in and out of the house, and none of them, none of us ever even discussed the fact that there were guns hanging there in plain sight.

 

I'm just wondering what has changed from that time-period to this? My family's home wasn't unusual in this situation - I can think of a handful of homes of my friends with the same set-up and can remember no incidents where it was an issue. Why do we now panic at the thought of our children being in the same house as a gun or even seeing a gun?

 

We have no guns now but I know that I would have them locked up tight if we did so I'm not questioning the wisdom of the current practice - just musing as to the way times change and why that particular change has happened relatively fast in this society.

 

Any thoughts?

 

My thought, after hosting playdates, is that it's not the gun, it's the family's failure to teach respect. I suspect their parents left that training to the sitter, or just wearied and gave up if it wasn't their upbringing in the first place. It really doesn't matter that it's a gun hidden in the master bedroom - these older children have never been taught to keep their hands to themselves or their persons in the public areas of a home. They have to see and touch everything. The concept of privacy or out-of-bounds doesn't exist for them. I know if I was in another home, I as a child would stop at the bedroom door - I had been trained to know a bedroom was private and not for me to be in without my parent's explicit permission. Continuing on in would mean that I lost my parents' respect. I've had child visitors who will open the garage door while my child is hollering for me because they just can't leave it alone (these aren't invited back and it is discussed with the parent at pickup)...they wanna expore and think they have a right to do so...obviously have never been clued in to the meaning of a closed door. Same with property..you can't take it just because you want it. It's not yours. You don't have permission from the owner.

[lgm]

I really believe it is in large part where people live. I live in an urban area. The houses here are so close together I can stick my hand out the window and touch the house next door. People are packed in like sardines. The thought of all of my neighbors with guns scares the crap out of me. And what would be the purpose of the guns? Shooting targets in the back yard? What back yard?! Seriously.

 

When I think of guns, I think of crime and people killing other people with them. I don't think of recreation, hunting, or a hobby. I don't know of guns being used around here for that purpose too often.

 

I live in the tri-state metro area. To me, guns are tools for hunting food. Many older people in this area hunt, especially for venison and turkey, since the cost of meat is so high. I have come to realize that many of my newer 'neighbors' view guns as cash, since they can rob and sell at will thanks to the law preventing homeowners from injuring the uninvited night visitors. I see a new business opportunity..operating a secured storage unit for people leaving on vacation who know that, while the home surveillance video while help the police eventually id the robbers, they still have to replace the goods.

[Tree House Academy]

Well, I don't know. But I see a pattern. For instance, my mom smoked while pregnant. My grandma smoked when I stayed with her and when it would go in my face, she mused that "smoke followed beauty." Now we know that smoking is harmful even to those who do not actually pick up the cigarette and likely, this is why I have asthma now. :(

 

When I was a kid, we laid down in the backseat of the vehicle and slept as we drove to our vacation destination. Now, my kids are strapped into car seats until they are NINE!

 

Times have changed. When I was a child, there were no school shootings that I knew of. If there were, they were very isolated incidents. Now, there is about one a year and at least one or two others "attempted" nationwide in a year.

[pqr]

.Well, I don't know. But I see a pattern. For instance, my mom smoked while pregnant. My grandma smoked when I stayed with her and when it would go in my face, she mused that "smoke followed beauty." Now we know that smoking is harmful even to those who do not actually pick up the cigarette and likely, this is why I have asthma now. :(

 

When I was a kid, we laid down in the backseat of the vehicle and slept as we drove to our vacation destination. Now, my kids are strapped into car seats until they are NINE!

 

Times have changed. When I was a child, there were no school shootings that I knew of. If there were, they were very isolated incidents. Now, there is about one a year and at least one or two others "attempted" nationwide in a year.

 

 

I don't see your point. Are you arguing that people did not know that guns could kill? Are you arguing that we will eventually lose our Constitutional rights?

 

 

As to shootings, the first major school shooting in the US was in 1966 when 14 were killed. This was the University of Texas shooting where the murderer, Whitman, faced return gunfire from the authorities and civilians who had brought out their personal firearms to assist police. (Incidentally this was only the first of a string of episodes where civilians used personal firearms to stop shooters).

 

A child's chances of being killed in a school shooting are far less than being killed on the way to school. Does this mean that in the future we will see how dangerous it is to drive to school and keep the kids at home (like most homeschoolers).

 

Again I do not see the connection that you are tyring to make.

[melis108]

It's an interesting thing to think about. I grew up with a step-father who hunted and we had guns around, but I have no idea where he kept them. I never once touched his guns when he had them out. I just wasn't interested.

[pqr]

I was allowed to examine the guns as young as 6 or 7, but ONLY in the presence and under the supervision of my Father. Guns held no mystery and I did know the damage they could inflict, but because my Father let me see them, hold them and shoot them I never even thought about picking one up without supervision.

[Coffeetime]

Guns weren't mysterious then. They were a tool (and still are for many of us) that parents taught their children to use carefully just like my dh gives careful instruction and supervision with power tools and yard tools.

 

Your friends growing up didn't give your family's guns a second thought because they probably had a similar gun rack and instruction. As our country gets more urbanized and hunting becomes more difficult and expensive there are less guns used on a regular basis and the children are not exposed to them as a tool, only as something "forbidden".

 

As guns move from keeping company with things like a hot stove or a combine they move into the realm of off-limits things like drugs and beer. Going from "tool" to "temptation" has its bad points.

:iagree:

This is exactly what I think. Also, since my dad was a hunter, we saw first-hand what a gun could do- every time he brought home his game.

 

 

My thought, after hosting playdates, is that it's not the gun, it's the family's failure to teach respect. I suspect their parents left that training to the sitter, or just wearied and gave up if it wasn't their upbringing in the first place. It really doesn't matter that it's a gun hidden in the master bedroom - these older children have never been taught to keep their hands to themselves or their persons in the public areas of a home. They have to see and touch everything. The concept of privacy or out-of-bounds doesn't exist for them. I know if I was in another home, I as a child would stop at the bedroom door - I had been trained to know a bedroom was private and not for me to be in without my parent's explicit permission. Continuing on in would mean that I lost my parents' respect. I've had child visitors who will open the garage door while my child is hollering for me because they just can't leave it alone (these aren't invited back and it is discussed with the parent at pickup)...they wanna expore and think they have a right to do so...obviously have never been clued in to the meaning of a closed door. Same with property..you can't take it just because you want it. It's not yours. You don't have permission from the owner.

:iagree:

Also exactly correct. We keep our gun locked in a gun safe for this very reason. I've actually had people over who's children not only entered my bedroom but promptly proceeded to dig through my closet and play with what they found. :confused: And the parents thought nothing of it. I would have DIED before I entered one of my friend's parents bedroom. Children aren't taught simple respect anymore.

[Garga]

I've only read a smattering of the comments, and I might get tomatoes thrown at me, but I'll say it anyway: A number of the comments I've read say, "I was never interested in touching the guns in the house anyway..." or something along those lines.

 

For those of you who wrote that, are you men or women? Women on the whole, aren't as attracted to guns. To men/boys, however, guns are like a siren's call.

 

Anyway, using the argument, "I was never interested in them" doesn't really mean anything unless we're only talking about gun safety and our daughters. But if you're talking about gun safety and our sons, then it's a whole different story. Because most likely our sons are very interested in them.

 

Other than pointing that out, I agree with many others: kids aren't exposed to guns as tools, so they seem forbidden and mysterious and interesting. If someone wants guns in the house, they need to teach the kids how to use them and practice shooting at things so the kids learn the power of the weapon and have a healthy respect for them.

[KidsHappen]

Whenever these threads come up, I am always surprised at the amount of people that are outraged that an adult would have a gun in their bedroom. I am quite sure that all across America there are adult items in adult bedrooms that most people would not want their children exposed to, and yet if a child came across an item like that in an adult bedroom, no one in their right mind would be outraged that the adult had said item in their bedroom but would instead be upset with the child for poking around in an adult bedroom. Why is it any different with guns?

[EmilyK]

I think this is really interesting -- we certainly all come at it from our own life perspective. The analogy to alcohol really helps me see how gun owners may feel -- I'm a believer that moderate use of alcohol in a family may make kids less likely to binge drink later (at least in theory -- I'm also contemplating throwing out much of what we have when our kids are older -- so go figure!).

 

I didn't grow up with guns in the home, or knowing anyone who did as far as I know. In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of a time I have ever seen a gun in someone's home except over a mantle, and I'm in my mid-40s. I've certainly seen guns over the years, but I tend to associate them with law enforcement or hunting. I didn't really know anyone who hunted growing up, but now I do, but from what we've discussed they keep them locked away when not in use. All of which is to say, and not trying to start anything, is I just don't come from a background that gives me a frame of reference about why they'd be in a home. Some of you may feel that way about alcohol. I just enjoy hearing the different perspectives and learning to look at things new ways.

 

In terms of why we are more careful now, I think it is everything like car seats, helmets etc. I know of some accidents and property destruction, etc in my husband's past experience that don't make me think the good old days were perfect. But I would like my boys to grow up knowing something about responsible gun use since guns are prevalent in our society -- I just don't want to have anything to do with it. :001_smile::001_smile: Sort of like if I'm a teetotaller I'm not going to pour their first drink.

 

On the bedroom issue, my kids know to stay out of folks' bedrooms, but their grandparents on both sides have given them blanket permission to go into their rooms, and my kids go into our room too, with blanket permission. (I'd be appalled if they did that at a friend's house.) I'd be surprised and we'd have a talk if they were rooting in our closets, but I would expect that there wouldn't be anything inappropriate in plain sight. I thought the OP may have involved a grandparent with a gun on the bed, which wouldn't be OK in our family, given that blanket permission.

[pqr]

 

But I would like my boys to grow up knowing something about responsible gun use since guns are prevalent in our society -- I just don't want to have anything to do with it. :001_smile::001_smile: Sort of like if I'm a teetotaller I'm not going to pour their first drink.

 

.

 

 

Try the Boy Scouts, the VFW Hall, local Gun Club or shooting range. Most have gun safety courses for children.

[EmilyK]

Thanks. Great idea.

[Mommyof4ks]

My dad had his guns on a gun rack in the office just off of our living room when I was growing up. We never touched them for fear of the wrath of dad lol. A little fear is a good thing. :D They were not usually loaded, but the ammo was right on top of the unlocked cabinet.

 

My middle son is very fascinated by guns, and that is why we keep ours locked up. Other people's kids come over some and I don't want to be responsible for their getting hurt by ANYTHING for fear of a lawsuit.

[WishboneDawn]

Why do we now panic at the thought of our children being in the same house as a gun or even seeing a gun?

 

 

My guess is because we're more urban.

 

I'm a rural person so when I think of a gun I think of a shotgun or rifle a person might use to hunt deer or scare off a black bear. A gun for that purpose generally gets cared for by folks who know what they're doing and gets locked up when not in use.

 

In the city people generally think of guns in terms of defense or assault. If you have one for either reason you are not locking it up or storing the ammo in a separate location. You may not even know much about guns because your motivations are so different and it's something that may not get looked at from year to year.

 

I think it's tied more to a change in what we use guns for.

[angela in ohio]

Try the Boy Scouts, the VFW Hall, local Gun Club or shooting range. Most have gun safety courses for children.

 

All good ideas. Also, depending on age, the NRA has safety courses (older teens to adults usually) and your state's department in charge of wildlife should be able to give you information about a hunter safety class for children. The NRA puts out a great video about gun safety with "Eddie Eagle." They teach younger dc what to do if they encounter a gun. A local 4-H club may also have a certified instructor who does programs.