How important is enjoyment in homeschooling?

[I.Dup.]

I really like R&S math but my dd finds it boring. However, it def. helps her really learn her math facts. I don't mind switching to Singapore as she seems to "enjoy" that more, but it got me thinking about how I make my decisions in homeschooling...do we always have to go by what our dc "enjoy?" I'm guessing she is not going to "enjoy" very many of the classical books and other things I feel she needs to know. For instance, she will never "enjoy" math. She doesn't "enjoy" writing. Heck, she doesn't "enjoy" much of schooling. She doesn't hate it, it's just not fun for her.

 

How much importance in schooling are we to put on "fun" or "enjoyment"? If your dc really don't like a certain curriculum or subject (or good book) that you feel is important, do you switch around or just have them do it anyway?

[AngelaNYC]

I realized that when the kids enjoy what they're doing, the better they do it and the more they learn. If a certain book or program just isn't meshing well with my kids, it's gone. They do have a lot of say in their education. It's the way we've always done things and it works wonderfully for us.

 

Oh, and it's also in the way things are presented. We do classic literature and poetry and I wondered if they would like it. If it looks boring or tedious I just put on my English accent or Irish brogue and act out the story as I read it. We'll make puppets and draw pictures and make a cool project or something. I'm not sure why your dd doesn't enjoy her subjects. My kids are (almost) 13 and 8. Things they thought they'd hate have turned around and now they love them.

 

I'm telling you, give them choices and make it fun. Never had any stress or rebellion in the 4 years we're homeschooling.

[Veritaserum]

One of our top reasons for homeschooling is to instill/guard a love of learning. I do what I can to make sure our subjects are presented in an engaging/enjoyable way. If my kids still grumble I usually say something like "We're going to do this for X more pages/minutes and then you can pick what we do next." My girls would both rather do science or some other type of hands on activity over things like math, spelling, grammar, etc. I'm currently writing a literature program for grammar and logic and I'm loving their input on the activities because I want them to really enjoy literature--I sure do! :)

 

Anyway, yes I think it's important for children to (mostly) like what they're doing. There are so many programs out there I think it's worth finding the one that best suits your particular child. :)

[herbalgirl]

This is a great thread. I've been wondering the same thing myself. I know that we can't have everything be "sunshine and roses" when it comes to school, but we are supposed to instill a love of learning in our children.

 

Right now, my oldest (7 yr. old ds) HATES anything to do with writing. Now, I cannot simply remove anything that has to do with writing, but I can tone it down for him. He has trouble with his fine motor skills. I do agree that it is worth the time to find out what clicks with our kids and keeps their interest.

[PeterPan]

If you wanted to teach them learning is boring and just a list of must-do's, why not put them back in school??? Seriously, there is a better way.

 

Now when you say a 7 yo (the oldest in your sig), yes, a 7 yo should enjoy school. They are so willing to please, to put up with our foibles and feeble attempts, and there are so many good, affordable options at this stage. I just don't see why school has to be drudgery for a 7 yo. Maybe later, but certainly not at this age. She needs spiral? She's a girl, so does she want color, interesting themes? You could look at Horizons, CLE, BJU (just be sure to use their extra pages for review). Any of those might float her boat. R&S *is* boring. Some kids do better with those b&w, uncluttered pages, and some kids are a lot happier with color, themes, and fun stuff. If you're going to pick one thing and use it with all your kids, then I suggest you pick something middle of the road, something that appeals to a variety of learner types. My dd goes ga-ga for things like codes you solve with math problems, stories to introduce the concept, colorful pages, etc. Why shouldn't a kid have that if it makes their time more joyous?

 

There's a difference between saying everything has to be "fun" (which unfortunately we can't make it) and trying to really fit the kid. Pudewa had this thing he said at the convention, and I wish I had been a fast enough writer to get it down. The gist was (and maybe somebody has notes with it better, I should write him and ask!): kids like to do what they can do and they enjoy it when it's a good fit. Mercy that's a bad rendition. But you get the point. Little kids are so eager to please, that balking should really be a red flag to us. Now when my 10 yo balks, I go through the list of why, whether the thing is negotiable or not. But there really are significant reasons, things that should concern us, when they balk. They may not be ready for the material (too hard). The quantity may be too large. It may not work for their particular learning style in some way (not enough visual, so much on the page it overwhelms them, whatever). It may seem purposeless or redundant. We may be using it as a babysitter or evacuating our job as teacher and enthusiasm-bringer due to fatigue. A good teacher can take ANYTHING, even mud, and use it to teach, because they bring their own enthusiasm and knowledge. Unfortunately, we live in the real world where we get tired, want to just throw things at them and walk away, etc.

 

I think a 7 yo should like math. I'm not saying they have to love it forever, but at 7 they're still eating m&m's while they do their subtraction, kwim? If that curriculum is making them hate math, I would BURN it. It might be fine for other people's kids, but it's clearly not for your particular dc in your particular situation. Don't pay money and get so stuck on something that you make them hate it. It's just not worth that, not when there are so many other good options.

 

CLE

BJU

Horizons

Singapore

CSMP

RightStart

MUS (with videos, easy peasy!)

Edited July 13, 2009 by OhElizabeth

[Pam Wilhelm]

After changing math curriculum 4 or 5 times.......... and my girls didn't like any of them........ I went to MUS and told my girls, "Too bad! If you were in Public School you wouldn't get to choose and you won't get to choose here either!" :D They like it well enough and are doing well with it.

 

Sometimes you can change the curriculum, sometimes you can change the child. :lol:

[Haiku]

For instance, she will never "enjoy" math.

 

How do you know? My kids love math. One struggles and loves it, one breezes through and loves it. Imo, it's because we have a math program that's a good fit for them.

 

How much importance in schooling are we to put on "fun" or "enjoyment"? If your dc really don't like a certain curriculum or subject (or good book) that you feel is important, do you switch around or just have them do it anyway?

 

At the ages my kids are, I feel it's extremely important. I am setting the stage for the rest of their learning lives. If they get the idea that learning is boring or develop a distaste for discovering new information, I feel that I will be largely responsible for that. My job is to set the stage for a love of learning, and if that means I have to tweak my plans to engage my kids, I certainly will.

 

I would never want homeschooling to be something we have to slog through just because we have to get it done.

 

Tara

[Imprimis]

One of my goals, when I began homeschooling 9 years ago, was to instill in my children a love for learning. I try to keep this in mind each year as I'm choosing new curricula. I do ask for their input, and when possible, choose materials that appeal to them. The good thing is, there are so many choices out there now, that I haven't found it difficult to find thorough, challenging programs that fit my kids' learning styles and personalities.

 

I feel our school year goes much more smoothly when ALL of us enjoy what we're working with.

[SquirrellyMama]

I do think a love of learning and enjoyment of school are very important. BUT... I think there are some kids who will not be pleased no matter what you do. I have an 8 year old like that. The first year we homeschooled I bent over backwards to make it enjoyable and it still didn't work. She wants to go to a "real" school and no matter what I do she isn't enjoying school.

 

Maybe I could find something that she loves, loves, loves but I can't do that unless I buy something first and find out she doesn't like it. My dh would put me on the curb if I was buying new stuff during the school year just because my dd hates what we doing.

[I.Dup.]

Thank you all. Instilling a love of learning is something that has always been important to me as well, so I def. don't want to do anything to hinder that!!!!!! I have always switched to something that seems like more of a fit for her, but I think I have this view that schooling should be as fun as play, and that's just not the way it is. She doesn't hate her subjects, and I didn't mean to make it sound that way, but sometimes I get discouraged that she isn't more energetic and I'm not sure how many hoops I'm supposed to jump through to get her that way. But so far, everything is still pretty good- no major balking or anything of that sort. We'll plan to just make things as fun as possible.

[I.Dup.]

BUT... I think there are some kids who will not be pleased no matter what you do.

 

This is exactly how this particular child tends to be, and it's very tiring. No matter how fun the activity is, she wants more or better. This is just an extension of that I think. She doesn't want to go to real school as that was definitely not a fit for her, but she doesn't seem completely satisfied with...anything, really.

[PeterPan]

Kristi, my dd is like that, and it has nothing to do with the math. If you really want to get psychoanalytical about it, I think my dd reflects my own frustration that I can't make things as fun as I want them to be. So I don't know if this will sound contradictory, but I'm saying both things. You both change the math to fit the dc, and you STOP changing. I'm never as fun as I want to be or aspire to be, but that's just reality (never enough energy to do all I want). I'm changing some things this coming year (started today) to get dd happy, and some things I'm saying tough on. I'm giving up trying to be fun, but I'm trying to find some energy to create more things for her to do in the day. Somehow having lots of materials and options doesn't necessarily translate into lots of doing. I think my dd needed a lot MORE than I was giving her. Not stuff, but more going, more things in a day. I was treating her like I did in K5, doing some schoolwork and then giving her the afternoon to herself. Well I think she needs 3 or 4 planned things to fill in her afternoon, then have 1-2 hours to herself and maybe even some homework after dinner. She just needed more, and I didn't get it till now. It was my lack of energy that made me blind to it, with the new baby and all.

 

What you might do is find some outside activities and get her signed up for some things. Fill up her day. Get her in some classes. Maybe you'll find the thing that sparks her. Also, make sure she's physically active enough. And definitely change that math. Don't change it yearly, but do it one time and do it right. Get samples of everything, let her try them, each for say 2 weeks, and by fall you'll know your best fit. Then pick and stick with it through pre-algebra. Then you're not jumping, not wasting money, but you have a good fit for her.

[I.Dup.]

Thank you! Those are great tips. :)

[Capt_Uhura]

Great thread! I too have a difficult son and I constantly ask myself if I should dump this or that, do something differently. It's a tough line to walk.

[Colleen in NS]

I really like R&S math but my dd finds it boring. However, it def. helps her really learn her math facts.

 

For instance, she will never "enjoy" math. She doesn't "enjoy" writing. Heck, she doesn't "enjoy" much of schooling. She doesn't hate it, it's just not fun for her.

 

sometimes I get discouraged that she isn't more energetic and I'm not sure how many hoops I'm supposed to jump through to get her that way. But so far, everything is still pretty good- no major balking or anything of that sort. We'll plan to just make things as fun as possible.

 

This is exactly how this particular child tends to be, and it's very tiring. No matter how fun the activity is, she wants more or better. This is just an extension of that I think. She doesn't want to go to real school as that was definitely not a fit for her, but she doesn't seem completely satisfied with...anything, really.

 

I gathered in your other thread that there were more difficulties with you/her using Singapore than with R&S. You said here that R&S is working to help her learn her math facts. You like R&S, you seem to have an easier time teaching with it. With all these reasons, I wouldn't switch from R&S.

 

You also say she doesn't enjoy math and writing. Math and writing are skills. IMO they are skills that should be learned, in order to produce thinking skills later on that will help her to *enjoy* her future learning. Sure, you gotta find programs that will fit the child, but you also say that she doesn't seem to be completely satisfied with anything. I would just stick with what is teaching her the skills she needs, as long as there are no major learning glitches going on.

 

I also wouldn't worry about jumping through hoops to make things more fun. You have a 5th baby on the way, yes? And with 5 kids 7 and under, I imagine you are already quite busy.

 

You can spice things up with reading and fun activities (crafts, baking, outdoors play, parks, music, art, etc.), but sometimes with some kids, that skills work is just not going to be fun (I have a child like this). Learning skills is sometimes just plain old hard work (for a few minutes a day) and boring (for a few minutes a day). If spicing up the boring bits tires you out and bores her, then I'd just plow through and get it done and put it away for the next day.

 

About reading: this is where the fun can be, too. Let her read and look at books that she is passionate about. Let her delve into whatever animals fascinate her, or stories from history (letting your science and history programs guide you, if that's what you have in place), or stories about people. Using her reading for writing practice can liven up writing practice a bit, too. This is something I did change for my child. I incorporated his reading into his writing practice, gave him choice about where to pick dictation passages from, to write his narrations from, and now where to pick outlining material from (all within certain guidelines). His mind still wanders during writing practice, BUT when I can get his mind back on track, he is interested in the material, LOL!

[Garga]

We used Rod and Staff, too, for 1st grade and I loved it. Ds6 hated it, but put up with it. I thought he was learning his math facts. Thought.

 

But, when there were only about 10 lessons left to go I realized he didn't really know the facts. When the facts were presented to him in a different manner than R&S uses (like on different flashcards, or different worksheets) suddenly he didn't know them.

 

UGH!!! A whole year! And he didn't know them after all! It was spotty. He knew some of them. And we were careful to do everything in the teacher guide and all those extra worksheets. (or at least part of them each day.)

 

We've since moved to MUS and he likes that a teeny bit better, but he's still not thrilled with math. Currently we're halfway thru Alpha and it tells us before we move to subtraction to be sure that the child knows his addition facts. So we're parked here for awhile, until I'm SURE he knows these math facts.

 

The way I'm making sure he knows his facts is we play War the card game. But instead of just laying down 1 card and seeing which is the higher card, we each lay down 2 cards and add them up to see who has the highest score. Try that with your dd and make sure she really knows those math facts. (You'll have to remove some of the cards from the deck, because R&S only teaches up to answers that are 10. MUS teaches answers up to 11, so MUS would teach up to 9+9 in Alpha.)

 

Long post. To answer your question, be sure she's really learning and if she's not, I'd look for something more fun so that she's more motivated to learn.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'm an in-betweener on this topic. I do think it's important to try to instill a love of learning in children. However, I also think that children sometimes need to learn things they might not actually love. I have no problem with teaching some things that my child doesn't love. Now, if something unhealthily stresses him out, that's a whole other ballgame.

[8filltheheart]

I really like R&S math but my dd finds it boring. However, it def. helps her really learn her math facts. I don't mind switching to Singapore as she seems to "enjoy" that more, but it got me thinking about how I make my decisions in homeschooling...do we always have to go by what our dc "enjoy?" I'm guessing she is not going to "enjoy" very many of the classical books and other things I feel she needs to know. For instance, she will never "enjoy" math. She doesn't "enjoy" writing. Heck, she doesn't "enjoy" much of schooling. She doesn't hate it, it's just not fun for her.

 

How much importance in schooling are we to put on "fun" or "enjoyment"? If your dc really don't like a certain curriculum or subject (or good book) that you feel is important, do you switch around or just have them do it anyway?

 

It really depends on the subject and the child. I do not believe that education needs to be hands on, interactive, fun-filled all the time. (that is just not how I teach nor how I want to.)

 

I try to make sure everything is age appropriate, interesting, engaging, etc. But for me that is quite different than "fun."

[G5052]

My son doesn't like anything even remotely related to "school". No program or book is going to magically make him enjoy school work. Sometimes you have to learn something before it stops being "hard" and starts being interesting. After years of trying to find something that will make him like schoolwork I have given up. I try to make it as painless as possible but sometimes you just have too learn stuff.

 

 

 

:iagree:

[nova mama]

I want my children to enjoy learning, but I also want them to understand that sometimes that we have to do things that are not fun to work towards a long-term goal. I am looking for (but have not yet achieved) a balance between fun and discipline. I want them to think it's "fun" to work through challenges and come through victorious learners. Like I said, haven't achieved this yet ...

[skaterbabs]

IMO, obviously you can't let "fun" be the primary concern. However, if all other factors are equal, it can be a final deciding factor among similarly rigorous programs within your financial ability.

 

At the same time, if a particular program is causing severe stress and strain and obviously is hated by one or both of you, it may be time to reevaluate.

 

A perfect non-answer, I guess. :tongue_smilie:

[FO4UR]

I think schooling should be satisfying, but not always fun.

 

There are times when ds is NOT having fun, but I know once we get past this bump he'll be SO happy he did it. It's worth perservering.

 

If the entire curric is one big bump in the road, I think that's a big sign to find another road.

[Laura Corin]

I do try to find curricula that the boys enjoy, but I don't jump around too much and I don't always follow their opinions. We have switched to Life of Fred for Calvin's maths because he really doesn't like maths and this makes it palatable. I am combining it with review of everything he learned before and will be using the end of chapter tests from his previous maths series to check his progress.

 

On the other hand, Calvin went through a stage of really hating Latin Prep. I insisted that he continue and he came out the other side. He now has a real sense of accomplishment and is working fairly easily through Latin Prep 3.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

I've just noticed that your daughter is only seven. At that age, I would be using games and activities for learning maths facts, not drilling through a programme that the child doesn't like. There are some great activities for addition and subtraction facts here.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[sportymom]

I think schooling should be satisfying, but not always fun.

 

There are times when ds is NOT having fun, but I know once we get past this bump he'll be SO happy he did it. It's worth perservering.

 

If the entire curric is one big bump in the road, I think that's a big sign to find another road.

 

 

:iagree:

[Mom22ns]

At age 7 school should be fun! Oh, I realize there are bumps and sometimes we have to struggle over them. Every moment of every day isn't about fun, but overall the life of a 7 yo should be fun. If there is a subject where they are unhappy and you can with another good curriculum choice make them happy, I would. I mean it isn't like she is asking to quit math. She wants Singapore, normally considered one of the best and most advanced math programs on the market. Why not?

 

I don't let my kids pick their curriculum in general. However, I do let them have input and I do think having them onboard and committed to what we are doing is a big part of making homeschooling successful. My kids work hard for pretty long hours for me and they will tell you that homeschool is fun and great. To be honest, I don't know why, but I think it is because we work together and are committed. If they hate something, we try to change it or balance it even if we can't make it go away all together.

[FairProspects]

I do think that instilling a love of learning is not necessarily synonymous with fun. I want my children to learn to read for a variety of reasons, to enjoy fiction & novels, to learn about a topic, to summarize and identify facts and different viewpoints. Not all of those reasons are pure enjoyment, but they are all necessary! Obviously, I want my kids to like learning, but I learn about topics I don't always like because I need to know them, and I want my kids to understand that necessity as well.

[Sandi_NC]

I want my children to enjoy learning, but I also want them to understand that sometimes that we have to do things that are not fun to work towards a long-term goal. I am looking for (but have not yet achieved) a balance between fun and discipline. I want them to think it's "fun" to work through challenges and come through victorious learners. Like I said, haven't achieved this yet ...

 

 

:iagree:

[I.Dup.]

Thank you all So much!!!! Colleen, you were right on, that really spoke to me, thank you. Thank you for those who reminded me she's only 7 and more games are okay. Thank you all!

 

I do believe very strongly that life is not all fun, nor do I want to act that it is. Challenges are good and should help us become better people, and I have no problem with my children learning that lesson, and hope they do! I get tired of jumping through the hoops she seems to put up and find myself getting resentful at times because she can be a very difficult child. But I still want to give her everything she needs, it's so hard to find a balance between her learning the lesson she needs to learn (character, not just educationally) and keeping things light and fun. I lean more towards the fun side, but it really wears me out sometimes and I'm realizing I can't act like everything should be "Fun" all the time. Thanks again everyone.

[MerryAtHope]

I don't expect my kids to enjoy everything, but I do think there should be some level of enjoyment in most things. If not, then is it an attitude problem (do they grump about everything?), or is it a curriculum problem?

 

I wouldn't want to spend 12 years of my life doing a job I hated (would if I *had* to but...). So I don't think education should be like that. I expect parts of any job or education to be things I don't love, but not all of it. So, I am willing to look at curriculum, involve my kids in the decision-making process, and strive to find something better when I can.

 

Merry :-)

[Moni]

How much importance ........put on "fun" or "enjoyment"?

 

None.

School is work.

When work is done, then we enjoy ourselves.

We could make schooltime last longer and put in some crafts, etc., but the kids do that on their own time anyway, and besides who wants school to alst longer each day ;)

 

I'm not out to entertain the children, and homeschooling isn't entertaining me either !

 

So Academics is worktime.

Afterwards is Fun Time.

 

:seeya:

[Karen in CO]

I've had this talk with my ds who graduated last year. He agrees that it doesn't have to be fun, but it should be interesting. It shouldn't provoke tears from either the teacher or the student. It shouldn't be so boring that it kills the love of learning. Some of it just needs to be gotten through. Kids need to write, but they can write things that interest them, Kids need to do math, but it can be presented in a way that interests them. But school isn't the same as playtime.

 

My dd loves to learn about ancient Rome - she does that on her own time - we are studying the Middle Ages. She hates facts practice with a passion, but loves word problems so I give her word problems instead - she still does the math but in a way that is less painful for us all and in the long term, it is more beneficial to her to do the word problems. I refuse to do crafty projects and call them school, but have no problem providing them for afterschool or providing science experiments for during school.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Karen in CO

[Alison in KY]

My son doesn't like anything even remotely related to "school". No program or book is going to magically make him enjoy school work. Sometimes you have to learn something before it stops being "hard" and starts being interesting. After years of trying to find something that will make him like schoolwork I have given up. I try to make it as painless as possible but sometimes you just have too learn stuff.

 

Funny, now he has learned enough Latin that he can read it a little and now he wants to. He won't admit to actually liking it...... but he did read a bit of Ecee Romani all on his own the other day.

 

mmhmm, I've got at least one of these :glare: I've been through prob. 5-6 math programs and finally I decided I just needed to pick one and go with it, even though my son complains that he hates it...he says that about everything though ;)

 

Alison

[Moni]

though my son complains that he hates it...he says that about everything though ;)

 

 

 

;)

 

:seeya:

[skaterbabs]

Wacko is the exact same way.:glare:

[stripe]

I just finished reading Gifted: A Novel by Nikita Lalwani.

 

I found it to be a sort of anti-manual for how to educate one's child: focus exclusively on one goal (not even a final goal at that), and forget about the child in the process. The rigid educational routines, the harsh physical conditions (emphasizing hunger and physical coldness in order to promote mental sharpness), and the complete social isolation including from her own family, were very painful to read. So, while I doubt anyone on here is that "driven," I do think worrying only about cramming facts in the head to get a result will not lead to a good outcome.

[2cents]

I try to make it as interesting as I can but there are things the children just aren't that keen on doing. I've explained that life isn't all about fun and games and they know that a lot of the 'fun and games' that they do get wouldn't be possible if their father and I hadn't spent some time studying subjects we weren't particularly fond of. ;)

[Moni]

I do think worrying only about cramming facts in the head to get a result will not lead to a good outcome.

 

I can't imagine a person who doesn't agree with you.

 

 

:seeya:

[KrissiK]

That's a tough question. While I admit I'd like my children to have an enjoyable childhood, and I would like to make school "fun", that's not really training them for life, it's not always possible, and I could just wear myself out trying to make everything "fun". I guess, my goal is more to make school interesting where I can, and hopefully make our home/school atmosphere pleasant so that even if the actual work itself isn't all that exciting, life can still be good for us all.