What could cause amenorrhea in an entire group of girls?

[Cindyg]

Suppose in a group home situation for teenage girls, none of the girls had their periods the entire time they were there -- from one to two years. They had them before they arrived, and they had them as soon as they left, but not while they were there.

 

I realize this can be caused by stress and low body fat. But -- every single girl as soon as they arrive?

 

This also affected the staff ladies who were not under the same kind of stress as the girls.

 

What could cause that?

 

(If you think you know what facility I'm talking about, please don't post any name guesses here. Feel free to PM me.)

[kalanamak]

 

This also affected the staff ladies who were not under the same kind of stress as the girls.

 

 

I know that women in groups tend to cycle together, and I think I recall some study having to do with sense of smell, i.e. the entire female dorm stuffed their noses for 2 months and everyone was uncoordinated.

 

Very strong hormones in the water??:D

[Orthodox6]

Nutrition so appalling as to render the institution eligible for legal action ? ?

[snickelfritz]

and started as soon as they left.....I don't think it would be nutrition. That would have at least some delay going both ways.

 

My guess would be something hormonal being given to them? That sounds very conspiracy theory...something in the water...?

[Pamela H in Texas]

sounds like hormone medication or diet, though I would guess diet, at least going in, would take at least a couple months for at least some of the girls.

 

Weird.

 

ETA: Certain HEALTHY diets cause light to non-existent periods. Raw is one. But I don't know that it's 100% and the diet would have to be followed almost 100% for most of them to achieve it.

[gardening momma]

Does this home have an emphasis on athletics? That could explain it in the girls, if not the staff.

[Lovedtodeath]

I will go with the obvious.. nonstop Birth Control Pills or shots. It wouldn't surprise me a bit. I used to run a daycare and I had two young girls (13 and 14) that were on BC. Social services was involved. The younger did not have constant boyfriends and did not dress and act like the older sister, KWIM? But she had to be on them too, and she gained weight as a result.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[Cindyg]

I will go with the obvious.. nonstop Birth Control Pills or shots. It wouldn't surprise me a bit. I used to run a daycare and I had two young girls (13 and 14) that were on BC.

 

Oh, definitely not shots. And let me clarify: Neither the girls nor their parents was aware of any birth control or had given any permission for any birth control.

[EKS]

I would guess a hormone, but why would the staff be affected if this were the case?

[Heather in WI]

If it was just the girls, I would suspect anorexia combined with rigorous exercise. The staff included certainly raises questions.

[Lovedtodeath]

What do you think is the cause Cindy?

[Cindyg]

What do you think is the cause Cindy?

 

I suspect it is nefarious. But I honestly have no idea. But even if we assume it is nefarious, HOW could that be done? HOW would you get {what?} into the girls, and where would you get it {what?} from?

[Mommyof4ks]

I suspect it is nefarious. But I honestly have no idea. But even if we assume it is nefarious, HOW could that be done? HOW would you get {what?} into the girls, and where would you get it {what?} from?

 

 

Nevermind, I googled.

Edited July 6, 2009 by dwkilburn1

[camibami]

:confused:

 

That is really odd! I know a lot of excercise will stop periods, and poor diet, too. If it was an athletic facility (I"m thinking a Soviet-era gymnastics school or something) the staff would be affected if they too did strenous athletics combined with low caloric intact. And stress, to perform.

 

But what chemical could they give to stop periods, if not BC?? And why??

 

That is just creepy, right there.

[Cindyg]

What is that?

 

LOL! I don't know! That's what I'm asking! LOL!

 

What could be given to a group of girls to cause amenorrhea, and how would you get it into them without their knowing?

 

Or is it possible that this was just a natural occurrence? We're talking about approximately 18 girls at a time. I have no idea of how many girls total. They would come and go over the years.

 

ETA: Sorry. I misunderstood your question. Amenorrhea means no periods.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Cindyg

[Lovedtodeath]

it would have to be controlled quantities, so that would be tough... but every situation calls for why? They are only there for a short time. What good would it do unless there is prostitution going on? And why the staff? That makes no sense either. I guess I would have to have details that aren't forthcoming for it to make any sense. Maybe they are experimenting on them?!

[Cindyg]

it would have to be controlled quantities, so that would be tough... but every situation calls for why? They are only there for a short time. What good would it do unless there is prostitution going on? And why the staff? That makes no sense either. I guess I would have to have details that aren't forthcoming for it to make any sense. Maybe they are experimenting on them?!

 

Oh, no prostitution! No access to men (or boys) at all! And NOT for a short period of time. (No pun intended.) The girls were there for one to two YEARS. All experiencing the same condition. (No periods.)

[gardening momma]

This is starting to feel like this is 20 Questions :001_smile:

 

Is this something that only a few people know about, but has not been in the news? It just sounds like it's under wraps still.

[Jean in Newcastle]

This looks like a good article. It mentions that there it can be drug-induced as well as exercise or stress induced. It sounds like there can be some nutritional deficiencies that can cause it too.

 

http://wiki.medpedia.com/Amenorrhea

[Danestress]

Most women who start non-stop BCP have break through bleeding anyway. They would perceive themselves as having at least some menstrual periods if they were put on it not knowing it. Plus, they probably would be reporting nausea and other problems.

[JennC]

prolactin

My first inclination is that this was a thinking exercise: is this a group home for pregnant girls?

However, you suggested that it was somehow done "to" the girls without their knowledge or consent. Prolactin would cause this symptom

Edited July 6, 2009 by JennC

[Tap]

I would also suspect the water supply, especially if they are on well water.

 

There could be environmental run off that has higher levels of hormones or toxins. If you know the location can you research what the industries are nearby?

 

Any chance they could be near a toxic dump site?

[Reya]

Likely, someone VERY hormonally dominant is messing with everyone's cycle.

 

It is the irony of my life that I have the LEAST dominant cycle. Hanging out with two unrelated sets of friends makes me double-cycle or just shut down altogether. It's quite likely that the hormonal opposite of me is messing everyone up.

[Soph the vet]

In horses we use Regumate (progesterone) to cause amenorrhea or anestrus as it is called in animals. You think you would see other signs in these girls if that was being used.

[Cindyg]

In horses we use Regumate (progesterone) to cause amenorrhea or anestrus as it is called in animals. You think you would see other signs in these girls if that was being used.

 

Other signs like what?

 

Could it be slipped in food or drink undetected? (Would they taste it?)

 

Could a non-vet get a steady supply of this somehow?

 

(Thanks for your input, Soph.)

Edited July 8, 2009 by Cindyg

[staceyobu]

This thread has me very curious...

[Mom-ninja.]

Other signs like what?

 

Could it be slipped in food or drink undetected? (Would they taste it?)

 

Could a non-vet get a steady supply of this somehow?

 

(Thanks for your input, Soph.)

 

There are BC pills that are progesterone only. Yes, it could be given undetected without a taste.

 

 

Then, of course, there's another option. Someone (or everyone) is lieing.

[Dobela]

Could they be receiving something like Depo Provera shots and not know that they are hormonal shots? Maybe be told that they are a flu shot or something? Depo will stop cycles and you wouldn't have to receive it daily-only once every 3 months.

[Nicole M]

This is quite a mystery!

 

I worked in an office building where every woman, in every office, on every floor, had irregular paps the year that major renovations were happening. I think it had to do with air quality, something that was released into the venting system when they were ripping out walls and stuff. Don't know, though. But every woman not menstruating? That's just crazy.

 

Depending on how closed the facility is, it might be difficult to lie about it, since you would need "supplies" (our family code word for feminine products) to be coming in.

[Dawn in OH]

That's really creepy.

I'm thinking if it's even affecting the staff, it's got to be something in the water.

[Soph the vet]

Other signs like what?

 

Could it be slipped in food or drink undetected? (Would they taste it?)

 

Could a non-vet get a steady supply of this somehow?

 

(Thanks for your input, Soph.)

Seems like you can get almost anything these days. It is considered a prescription drug so we have horse owners that we have a relationship with that will come in to put their mares on it at certain times (show season or to hold a pregnancy).

[Cindyg]

prolactin

My first inclination is that this was a thinking exercise: is this a group home for pregnant girls?

 

No, none of the girls were pregnant. They were there more than 9 months, so that's not a possibility.

 

Could they be receiving something like Depo Provera shots and not know that they are hormonal shots? Maybe be told that they are a flu shot or something? Depo will stop cycles and you wouldn't have to receive it daily-only once every 3 months.

 

No, definitely not shots.

 

Does this home have an emphasis on athletics? That could explain it in the girls, if not the staff..

 

The girls did all become quite thin, they did exercise a lot, and they were all under a lot of stress. I don't think, though, that this explains the immediate cessation of every single girl when they entered the facility. ?? (The staff exercised with them, but they were not under stress, and they were not underweight.)

 

Likely, someone VERY hormonally dominant is messing with everyone's cycle.

 

That's an interesting thought. There certainly was a dominant female (think Nurse Ratched). But is this seriously an option?

 

Is this something that only a few people know about, but has not been in the news? It just sounds like it's under wraps still.

 

It was a small facility and it happened a long time ago. There's very little chance that you would have heard about it. But the women involved (girls then, women now) still want to know if something was done to them.

 

Thanks for kicking this around with me. I think it remains a mystery.

[Lovedtodeath]

Most of the hormones used for birth control would generally cause weight gain and allow for a lot of intermittent spotting, so I am perplexed. The prolactin seems most plausible.

[Melinda]

Is the home on a well near a large-scale horse facility? Maybe Prolactin was given and leeched into the water supply when being passed through the mares' urine. Anyone in the facility would be effected in that case, I suppose.

 

Sounds like a Jodi Picoult book to me. :)

[Aggie]

If it happened a long time ago, I would suspect the accuracy of their memories a bit.

 

Just my 2cents.

[Cindyg]

If it happened a long time ago, I would suspect the accuracy of their memories a bit. Just my 2cents.

 

Oh no. It was thoroughly documented at the time. The staff kept charts of everything. It was openly discussed at the time and many people remember it the same way. No one involved doubts the accuracy of this memory.

 

Most of the hormones used for birth control would generally cause weight gain and allow for a lot of intermittent spotting, so I am perplexed. The prolactin seems most plausible.

 

No spotting and certainly no weight gain!

 

Is the home on a well near a large-scale horse facility? Maybe Prolactin was given and leeched into the water supply when being passed through the mares' urine. Anyone in the facility would be effected in that case, I suppose.

 

And, sadly, no horses. :)

Edited July 9, 2009 by Cindyg

[Caroline]

Have the women from the facility had any health issues in common since leaving the facility? I was wondering if these women had a higher incidence of cancer or infertility or babies with birth defects or special needs or anything that might be a side effect of being given hormones.

[kalanamak]

This is quite a mystery!

 

I worked in an office building where every woman, in every office, on every floor, had irregular paps the year that major renovations were happening. I think it had to do with air quality, something that was released into the venting system when they were ripping out walls and stuff.

 

All it takes is one nutty pathologist reading for several clinics. I had a spell of all patients with abnormal Paps...not terribly wrong, just not "cleared". I called my boss after the first 25 and told her we had a nut in the path department. Don't know what came of my comment, because soon after he read two intra-op frozen sections as positive for breast cancer and two women lost a total of 3 breasts. On review none were cancer. The guy had "missed" something somewhere and became unable to rate anything as "normal".

 

Also, there was a change in the rating system some time back and everything went cuckoo for awhile. In order to put the "burden" on the doc doing the Pap, they no longer said X and good or Y and bad. They said X or Y in vaguer terms and left it to the schmuck who did the Pap (who hadn't seen the slide, nor had been trained in looking at the slides) to decide what to do next. There was a lot of "over reading" of seriousness of abnormality while everyone got used to the new system.

 

Ain't medicine grand?

[Nicole M]

All it takes is one nutty pathologist reading for several clinics. I had a spell of all patients with abnormal Paps...not terribly wrong, just not "cleared". I called my boss after the first 25 and told her we had a nut in the path department. Don't know what came of my comment, because soon after he read two intra-op frozen sections as positive for breast cancer and two women lost a total of 3 breasts. On review none were cancer. The guy had "missed" something somewhere and became unable to rate anything as "normal".

 

Also, there was a change in the rating system some time back and everything went cuckoo for awhile. In order to put the "burden" on the doc doing the Pap, they no longer said X and good or Y and bad. They said X or Y in vaguer terms and left it to the schmuck who did the Pap (who hadn't seen the slide, nor had been trained in looking at the slides) to decide what to do next. There was a lot of "over reading" of seriousness of abnormality while everyone got used to the new system.

 

Ain't medicine grand?

 

Interesting! I remember there was a scale, 1 - 3 or something, and we were all in the not-terrible-but-not-normal range, 2, I think. There were other health issues going on in that building, though, too. Odd.

 

What do you think about this amenorrhea thing, K?

 

(I don't know why that bolded, and I can't make it stop...!)

[dragons in the flower bed]

That's really creepy.

I'm thinking if it's even affecting the staff, it's got to be something in the water.

 

Or something in the air. Radiation causes amenorrhea. What are the cancer rates amongst these girls in the years afterwards? Are they still sharing data?

 

Or the amenorrhea was a secondary symptom, and there would also be malnutrition, lack of growth, or lactation. Did y'all poop normally? Did you grow normally? Did anyone start secreting from the nipples? (Would you have known? Would girls have confessed to messing with their own nipples enough to cause fluid to leak out?)

 

Was this a city, or rural?

[lionfamily1999]

I would have to wonder if they were putting anti-happy drugs in the food. My mom and dad both have told me about the Army and Marines putting what they called downers or softies into the food, to discourage any tea, self or group (iykwIm).

[yslek]

There are BC pills that are progesterone only. Yes, it could be given undetected without a taste.

 

 

Yes. I've been on them, and still had a period. What a very strange mystery this is. Do you think you'll ever know the answer?

[Geo]

Hypothetically speaking...it makes me think of birth control. BC creates a pseudo-pregnancy-enviroment, hormononally speaking. That's why there are certain pills in the cycle that are hormonally different, for stimulating a period. If those pills (or whatever) were absent, they wouldn't get their periods. Girls in some facilities are often put on bc to prevent pregnancies that the facility could ultimately be held responsible for. Not sure how that would be delivered without their knowledge, including the workers.....hmmm.

 

FWIW,

Geo

Edited July 11, 2009 by Geo

[kalanamak]

What do you think about this amenorrhea thing, K?

 

(I don't know why that bolded, and I can't make it stop...!)

 

 

Hum, my post got lost?

 

Well, I think of two things: Owner or manager of the facility was a nut with obsessive fears of a pregnancy combined with an anti-social streak or my old chestnut: the most powerful organ in the body is the mind. Strange things happen.

 

I seem to have nuts on the brain. If you hear lots of banging and screaming and alarms west of you, it is because the hospital has been very "high" the last two weeks.

[Nicole M]

Hum, my post got lost?

 

Well, I think of two things: Owner or manager of the facility was a nut with obsessive fears of a pregnancy combined with an anti-social streak or my old chestnut: the most powerful organ in the body is the mind. Strange things happen.

 

I seem to have nuts on the brain. If you hear lots of banging and screaming and alarms west of you, it is because the hospital has been very "high" the last two weeks.

 

Interesting.

 

Oh, and that rash of lab test results you mentioned in the earlier post, was that here, in 1989?

 

Sorry about your nuts!

[JoyfulMama]

In a group situation, I'd assume that the girls were there for some reason, be it psych or social. So it wouldn't be out of the question for all girls to be receiving counselling as well as on some sort of anti-depressant or tranquilizer. Both are known to be possible causes for amenorrhea. (Prozac specifically comes to mind...)

Staff.... well, since there is a significantly high incidence rate of psych workers also having a psych diagnosis, it wouldn't be necessarily out of the question for staff to also be on the same medication. I would doubt that the staff would have the same records as the residents, and therefore would be a bit skeptical about the staff reports.

I also wouldn't be surprised if doses of medications were adjusted a bit higher while a resident of a group facility, which might explain the time periods of amenorrhea.

 

Thought provoking....

[Aggie]

Or something in the air. Radiation causes amenorrhea. What are the cancer rates amongst these girls in the years afterwards? Are they still sharing data?

 

Or the amenorrhea was a secondary symptom, and there would also be malnutrition, lack of growth, or lactation. Did y'all poop normally? Did you grow normally? Did anyone start secreting from the nipples? (Would you have known? Would girls have confessed to messing with their own nipples enough to cause fluid to leak out?)

 

Was this a city, or rural?

 

Well, then, it could have been radon.

 

These are great questions, too.

 

Is the facility still open?

[kalanamak]

Interesting.

 

Oh, and that rash of lab test results you mentioned in the earlier post, was that here, in 1989?

 

Sorry about your nuts!

 

Just east of you, in 1995. One woman got a nasty post-op infection, and I believe both sued or settled. Last I heard of the doc, the pathologist, he was a doc in the box. I'm not sure how I'd feel about a failed pathologist evaluating a swollen knee or a fever and cough:001_huh:. I have long since forgotten his name.

Edited July 11, 2009 by kalanamak
off by a decade...destined to be on my tombstone.

[DawnL]

I heard something very weird the other day, about genetically modified organisms, namely food. And the guy on the news mentioned food that had birth control genetically engineered into the food. So that anyone who ate that food would have their fertility dramaticality lowered.

 

I know, that sounds like conspiracy theory stuff. But it's very weird that every female at the facility expierenced no mestruation at all for such a long period of time.