Who knew there was a WTM correct way to give birth?

[cathmom]

See, I don't take threads like that as she's trying to be rude. I think she really didn't think people screamed like that. All women have to do is say that they did scream like in the movies, and after a while, the OP has learned something. I think that is one of the points of dialogue. Taking offense just blocks this possible learning.

 

I remember posting something months ago about how much f**ing and such are in movies, and honestly NOT thinking that people just talked like that because I am NEVER around anyone who talks like that. I didn't start the thread to be rude -- I started it because I honestly thought movies were going off the deep end in representing how people talk. Movies and actors strive in certain ways to be realistic, and I thought they were failing in that respect. The thread taught me that I was wrong.

 

I tried that, Dawn. I posted immediately to the thread to say that I had screamed. Then later I went back to the thread to find out that I apparently was just scared. Thanks for enlightening me, y'all, as to my emotional condition during the births of my children.

[KidsHappen]

I think the original post was pretty much saying there is a right way to do it. She was automatically dismissing anyone who screamed as being unrealistic.

 

Editing to add: One of the statements in the OP's note, "I mean, what percentage of real, actual women do that? "

 

The words real actual were the ones that offended me most. It definitely implies that screaming women are not real actual women!

 

To put a positive spin on it, I like to think that screamers are just less inhibited. :D

[KidsHappen]

As a certified childbirth educator, I teach that screaming counterproductive and tenses the muscles, but I actively encourage vocalizing, especially moaning and breathing deeply. Screaming tightens the muscles of the whole body and most of the time when someone screams there is more fear piled up and the pain-fear-tension cycle continues all over again.

 

 

Yes, but what do you base this on? Several women in the other thread specifically addressed this and clearly stated that they did in fact find it helpful. This issue of fear has also been addressed and everyone who did so unequivicably stated that they were not screaming because of fear. I personally think that professionals informing women that it is counterproductive is what leads to the idea that there is a correct way to do it. I think women would be better served if they were informed that quite a few women do scream and that it is a normal and natural reaction.

[Rich with Kids]

To put a positive spin on it, I like to think that screamers are just less inhibited. :D

 

Who wants to post that thread... :D

[Carol in Cal.]

Screaming tightens the muscles of the whole body and most of the time when someone screams there is more fear piled up and the pain-fear-tension cycle continues all over again.

QUOTE]

 

If I heard someone say something this flatly in a childbirth prep class, I would know that I didn't want them 'managing' me and my birth. If, on the other hand, they said "Screaming CAN tighten the muscles...etc." then I would feel like here is someone who shares information but also can listen to someone's actual experience.

 

I know of circumstances where screaming definately tightened someone up, very traumatic ones; but I think that it can be perceived differently as well. And I don't think that it's completely voluntary, any more than someone who jumps out of a burning building on fire is completely voluntarily committing suicide.

[KidsHappen]

See, I don't take threads like that as she's trying to be rude. I think she really didn't think people screamed like that. All women have to do is say that they did scream like in the movies, and after a while, the OP has learned something. I think that is one of the points of dialogue.

 

I agree with this interpretation. I honestly believe that she did not know and now she does. Hopefully, she will inform her sons of this fact so that they do not go into the births' of their children with some preconceived and possibly (for their wives) incorrect ideas.

[KidsHappen]

Who wants to post that thread... :D

 

 

Ok, now that a few have mentioned this, I have always wondered if women who were vocal about getting in that condition were also the ones who were vocal about getting out of it IYKWIM. You can't very well ask that in polite company though can you?

[LarlaB]

I think its unkind to make generalizations about women- screaming or silent.

[HRAAB]

As a certified childbirth educator, I teach that screaming counterproductive and tenses the muscles, but I actively encourage vocalizing, especially moaning and breathing deeply. Screaming tightens the muscles of the whole body and most of the time when someone screams there is more fear piled up and the pain-fear-tension cycle continues all over again.

 

That said, I also teach that whatever mother does during labor is not subject to be criticized, judged or put down. She can do whatever she wants. After all, she's doing the labor. I especially stress this to the dads :)

 

I guess I find the above bolded comments contradictory. I didn't scream. I'm not a screamer. But my muscles were very tensed. You know why? It hurt like h***, like someone was taking a machete to my insides. The natural reaction is to tense up, screaming or not. And I've been there quite a few times.

 

Janet

[sunflowerlady]

I was in labor for three days with my dd.:glare: Nothing about it went like the books and childbirth classes had taught me. A whole weekend of walking the floor, no sleep, and going to the hospital to be sent home.

 

By the time they kept me, I needed some drugs. I got Nubain and a little later, a blessed epidural.:)

 

I really think that if I had not gotten that relief and the rest that it afforded me, I would likely have been a screamer.:001_huh:

[Nicole M]

I think the original post was pretty much saying there is a right way to do it. She was automatically dismissing anyone who screamed as being unrealistic.

 

Editing to add: One of the statements in the OP's note, "I mean, what percentage of real, actual women do that? "

 

The words real actual were the ones that offended me most. It definitely implies that screaming women are not real actual women!

 

Perhaps you missed my heartfelt apology in the other thread. I was and am truly sorry. Bringing this up again here does help me to understand why you were offended, but I do not think it furthers the discussion when I have already apologized.

 

I truly did not know that so many women did scream like in movies. When my son was born in the hospital, the staff Christmas party outside my room pretty much drowned out what was going on in other rooms, so I never heard anything from other birthing mothers. The one birth I attended was noisy, but no screaming. (It also, was extremely fast. So fast does not equal screaming. Nor is this mother repressed.) My home birth hurt like hell and was super fast, but I did not have the energy to scream, as I was so focused on keeping every part of my body relaxed.

 

Audrey is right, I made some assumptions. I assumed that the quality of care for birthing mothers had either improved since I was truly abused in the hospital, or that my really ****ty experience was not the norm. Reading the horror stories in that other thread makes me so sad. You would think that in the richest nation on the planet, we would have better care. Because my experience during my second, home birth was that in a safe, relaxed environment the pain was easier to cope with, and because I assumed that care in general was / is far better than it apparently is, and because I assumed that women had the kind of support that would enable them to access the strength they needed to focus and (I'm sorry) not scream, I assumed that screaming like in movies was unrealistic and uncommon.

 

I was wrong.

 

I will stand by my assessment that film births are degrading. And I still feel that if the sounds women make when actually giving birth were depicted onscreen, they would be interpreted as sexual and embarrass the audience, so the only vocalizations that we hear in screen births is screaming. I think that is wrong.

 

I never, ever said, nor have I ever felt that screaming is a sign of weakness.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Nicole M

[Elaine]

I read that thread (okay, 75 % of it), and I did not come away thinking anyone was saying there was a right way to do it. Probably those who don't scream during birthing imagine the acting must be way off. I don't see what there is to get so touchy about. On this board, if you disagree with someone, just say so.

 

Unfortunately some people are just looking for a reason to be offended. Its so silly, really. It's a message board for cryin' out loud.:lol:

[PeterPan]

Nicole, you've finally hit on the crux of it, that until you talk with (or watch) a variety of women in a variety of circumstances, you really don't see the breadth, the spread of how women handle things. I handled this 2nd birth, much bigger baby (11 pounds!), much better than my first one. I think it was partly the 2nd baby thing (faster birth, better birth), partly my calmer state of mind and improved health, and largely (my theory) the red raspberry leaf tea I had drunk to prepare for it. But I'd never expect anybody else's birth to be identical, kwim? And yes, most births I see on tv (TLC, etc.) seem barbaric to me, even the real ones. They're nothing like my experience, and I finally stopped watching them, realizing they were freaking me out. But you know, there's such a huge spread.

 

I actually feel bad at the thought of a woman screaming (against her volition) to deal with pain, because to me it means the midwives and attendants are not stepping up to the plate to offer means of dealing with it. I've never done a childbirth education class, but instead I had a fabulous midwife to take care of me through the whole thing. I'd much rather have a couple women holding your hand who know how to do it and take care of you than a professional who tells you ahead of time. As if, when you're in the thick of things, you're going to decide to do this or that comfort measure! Nope, you're pretty much on auto and guided by whatever your attendants are helping you with. When I was screaming, it was my MIDWIFE who helped me refocus and think differently. Which brings me back to my original point, that if women are screaming (against their preference), I lay it at the feet of our glorious, barbaric medical system. I think women are very strong and can handle an awful lot if you help them.

 

But you know, even in that, it's because I'm a social birther. I want my friends, my helpers, people to help me, because that's my personality. Introvert birthers seem to be totally different, wanting people to leave them alone, let them in their own space, etc. So I guess it's whatever is comforting to you. We've lost our heritage of birth, our freedom to have who we want, give birth the way we want, with whom we want, and feel supported. I think if a woman has those elements, it doesn't matter a particle how much she screams.

[Elaine]

Okay, I just went back to the other thread and found this quote, which I had missed before:

"FWIW, I think most women who do scream are just plain scared. I don't think it has much to do with the actual pain just their reaction to what's happening."

Now this is pretty rude...sorry. I have a very high pain threshold, am tough as nails as anyone who knows me can see...and was educated and prepared for my births as well as attended by midwives.....but I screamed bloody murder with two of them.....it had nothing to do with being scared....rude......

 

I don't think it's rude. I was afraid during labor. There are so many unknowns and that kind of pain does things to a person's mind. Fear is a natural reaction, nothing to be ashamed of.

[Tree House Academy]

LOL - I didn't scream because I found screaming useless and was irritated by it when I watched mom after mom do it on "A Baby Story" while I was pregnant. However, that was my personal take and a reason behind why I did my best not to scream.

 

That said, I don't give a rats a$$ what everyone else did while they were giving birth (so long as I didn't have to watch/listen!). That was just my personal choice. :)

[stripe]

I don't care if someone screams. It's personal and my opinion is, whatever happens in the delivery room stays in the delivery room, unless it's the woman who wants to share. No one should be made to feel bad about yelling, panting, peeing, or having messy hair and smeared mascara or whatever during those moments. I don't like that. BUT I hate movie birth scenes anyway.

[Nicole M]

Nicole, you've finally hit on the crux of it, that until you talk with (or watch) a variety of women in a variety of circumstances, you really don't see the breadth, the spread of how women handle things. I handled this 2nd birth, much bigger baby (11 pounds!), much better than my first one. I think it was partly the 2nd baby thing (faster birth, better birth), partly my calmer state of mind and improved health, and largely (my theory) the red raspberry leaf tea I had drunk to prepare for it. But I'd never expect anybody else's birth to be identical, kwim? And yes, most births I see on tv (TLC, etc.) seem barbaric to me, even the real ones. They're nothing like my experience, and I finally stopped watching them, realizing they were freaking me out. But you know, there's such a huge spread.

 

I actually feel bad at the thought of a woman screaming (against her volition) to deal with pain, because to me it means the midwives and attendants are not stepping up to the plate to offer means of dealing with it. I've never done a childbirth education class, but instead I had a fabulous midwife to take care of me through the whole thing. I'd much rather have a couple women holding your hand who know how to do it and take care of you than a professional who tells you ahead of time. As if, when you're in the thick of things, you're going to decide to do this or that comfort measure! Nope, you're pretty much on auto and guided by whatever your attendants are helping you with. When I was screaming, it was my MIDWIFE who helped me refocus and think differently. Which brings me back to my original point, that if women are screaming (against their preference), I lay it at the feet of our glorious, barbaric medical system. I think women are very strong and can handle an awful lot if you help them.

 

But you know, even in that, it's because I'm a social birther. I want my friends, my helpers, people to help me, because that's my personality. Introvert birthers seem to be totally different, wanting people to leave them alone, let them in their own space, etc. So I guess it's whatever is comforting to you. We've lost our heritage of birth, our freedom to have who we want, give birth the way we want, with whom we want, and feel supported. I think if a woman has those elements, it doesn't matter a particle how much she screams.

 

Thank you. I agree. I really did think that in the last 17 years since my first son was born, things would have changed so that a higher percentage of women would be getting much better care, like what you described, and like what I experienced.

 

Partly to blame for the misunderstandings in that other thread would be the fact that I wrote quickly, having had a knee-jerk reaction to the sexism in Star Trek (which I actually enjoyed anyway) and to what I perceive as ongoing, insulting images of birth in the media. It is never good to post a knee-jerk question. I wish we could talk about that, though, media images. I remember several TV and movie scenes that I saw as a child that really made profound, negative impressions on me that haunted me and impacted my reaction to a very bad situation during my first hospital birth.

[OH_Homeschooler]

I had epidurals. I threw up before giving birth one time. I pooped during giving birth another time. I'm thinking my doctor would have preferred a little screaming over those events.

[stripe]

From my understanding - thrown up is normal. :) And the rest. People shouldn't be disturbed that it's not "tidy."

Edited June 4, 2009 by stripe

[PeterPan]

I think both throwing up and bm's are normal during birth.

[LG Gone Wild]

I screamed once or twice because I thought it would make me feel better. It didn't (bummer). Part of it was fear. I was trapped my house doing an unexpected home birth. I thought I would try and let all the negative energy out. Really, I was happier just grimacing.

 

While the home birth/natural birth experience was awful, it really wasn't as painful as I might have thought. It was distressing but I recovered really well physically. I was up and about which I wouldn't have been had I had those lovely drugs. I was fortunate to experience what good high felt like. :tongue_smilie:

[cathmom]

Perhaps you missed my heartfelt apology in the other thread. I was and am truly sorry. Bringing this up again here does help me to understand why you were offended, but I do not think it furthers the discussion when I have already apologized.

 

Audrey is right, I made some assumptions. I assumed that the quality of care for birthing mothers had either improved since I was truly abused in the hospital, or that my really ****ty experience was not the norm. Reading the horror stories in that other thread makes me so sad. You would think that in the richest nation on the planet, we would have better care. Because my experience during my second, home birth was that in a safe, relaxed environment the pain was easier to cope with, and because I assumed that care in general was / is far better than it apparently is, and because I assumed that women had the kind of support that would enable them to access the strength they needed to focus and (I'm sorry) not scream, I assumed that screaming like in movies was unrealistic and uncommon.

 

I was wrong.

 

I will stand by my assessment that film births are degrading. And I still feel that if the sounds women make when actually giving birth were depicted onscreen, they would be interpreted as sexual and embarrass the audience, so the only vocalizations that we hear in screen births is screaming. I think that is wrong.

 

I never, ever said, nor have I ever felt that screaming is a sign of weakness.

 

Since I didn't read the whole other thread I didn't see your apology. But in your apology here, you continue to make some assumptions. You assume that quality of care or the environment is the cause of screaming. You assume that women who are screaming are not focusing and that screaming is a lesser thing to do. I do not agree with any of these.

 

I had babies #3, 4, and 7 in a freestanding birth center where I am entirely comfortable. With #4 and #7 I had excellent midwives whom I trusted entirely. I still screamed when I felt like screaming. I don't specifically remember screaming with #2 but I may have. However, she was smaller than my other babies. #3 was 9lbs 11 oz and posterior, as I mentioned on the other thread. After her birth I felt like a train had gone through the middle of me! #4 was 11 lbs even. I gave them birth to both of them entirely naturally. #5 and #6 were twins so I had to have them in the hospital. I did agree to an epidural, but it wore off shortly before delivery so I felt all of that. I don't remember screaming with them either, but they were each only 7 1/2 lbs. #7 was 10 lbs even. My pushing stages are very quick.

 

I once read that women who gave birth naturally didn't throw up. Guess what? They can, they do, and they will if they want to and if their bodies need to. Screaming is the same thing.

 

It's unfortunate that we couldn't have the conversation you wanted to have. I do agree that movie births are unrealistic. The speed with which women give birth in movies contributes, I think, to the whole idea of failure to progress.

 

What bothered me most about the other thread was not you starting it. As you said, screaming during labor/birth was outside of your experience and you didn't know that people really did it. I have nothing wrong with that and I wasn't offended by you asking, as you can see by my prompt answer to your question the night you asked it. What bothered me in the thread, and in many other threads, was the piling on and the judgments being made. I was rather stunned to find that many felt it unacceptable to scream and made comments on our motivations. That is why I started this thread.

 

Probably I should have just ignored the whole shebang. :)

[Nicole M]

Since I didn't read the whole other thread I didn't see your apology. But in your apology here, you continue to make some assumptions. You assume that quality of care or the environment is the cause of screaming. You assume that women who are screaming are not focusing and that screaming is a lesser thing to do. I do not agree with any of these.

 

 

But I am no longer making those assumptions! I said: I was wrong. I said I assumed, past tense.

[Rosie_0801]

I don't think it's rude. I was afraid during labor. There are so many unknowns and that kind of pain does things to a person's mind. Fear is a natural reaction, nothing to be ashamed of.

 

I don't think anyone was saying there was anything wrong or weird about being scared. The objection was the suggestion that fear is the *only* reason a woman would scream. Personally I think screaming is a pretty natural reaction to numerous emotions and physical sensations.

 

Rosie

[KidsHappen]

I think that a great deal of the problem is that in our society very few women have ever attended another's birth and we rarely share birth stories so we don't know what the normal range of expeience is. Everywhere that we can get information is biased. The media presents one image, the natural birthing movement another and the medical establishment yet another. Perhaps we would be better served to talk to other women who have actually given birth. Maybe we should start a thread in which we can each share our own birth stories?

[cathmom]

:thumbup::cheers2::lurk5:

 

But I am no longer making those assumptions! I said: I was wrong. I said I assumed, past tense.

[keptwoman]

And I still feel that if the sounds women make when actually giving birth were depicted onscreen, they would be interpreted as sexual and embarrass the audience, so the only vocalizations that we hear in screen births is screaming. I think that is wrong.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.

[Gretchen in NJ]

I think that a great deal of the problem is that in our society very few women have ever attended another's birth and we rarely share birth stories so we don't know what the normal range of expeience is. Everywhere that we can get information is biased. The media presents one image, the natural birthing movement another and the medical establishment yet another. Perhaps we would be better served to talk to other women who have actually given birth. Maybe we should start a thread in which we can each share our own birth stories?

 

:iagree:it would be a nice idea to discuss our birth stories with one another.

[BalanceSeeker]

Every birth is different for every mom. I *wanted* to scream, but it hurt too bad. My 1st labor was 4 hours from the inkling of a cramp to the delivery. 2nd labor was 2 hours. 3rd was 3. It was pure agony for all but the first 15 minutes each time. I've had friends who likened it to menstrual cramps :confused:. Mine was a shearing pain that was undescribable. If I could have caught my breath enough to scream, I would have :D.

 

All this to say, I can't imagine some else's experience being anything different than over-the-top pain, or pain they can't stay on top of, but apparantly there are those lucky ones!

[Night Elf]

Perhaps you missed my heartfelt apology in the other thread. I was and am truly sorry. Bringing this up again here does help me to understand why you were offended, but I do not think it furthers the discussion when I have already apologized.

 

I did see the apology, thank you. Honestly though, once you post something on a public board such as this one, it is out there for discussion. You may be finished with the subject but others still have responses.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that a great deal of the problem is that in our society very few women have ever attended another's birth and we rarely share birth stories so we don't know what the normal range of expeience is. Everywhere that we can get information is biased. The media presents one image, the natural birthing movement another and the medical establishment yet another. Perhaps we would be better served to talk to other women who have actually given birth. QUOTE]

 

That's one of the reasons why I really liked "The Birth Book" by the Sears. She describes a bunch of births in a fair amount of detail--I forget exactly how many, but I think perhaps 7. She leans toward the natural, but is not really doctrinnaire about it, so her descriptions seemed pretty well-balanced to me.

 

(None of this "Well, that was HARD WORK" when what is really meant is "That hurt me so bad that I stabbed my husband in the entrails, which is why I am talking to you from this cell.") (Nor yet "I faced demons and took charge and fought my way to the bitter, painful end" when what is really meant is "I started with narcotics at 1 cm, proceeded to an epidural at 3 cm, and felt some little twinges during the actual delivery itself.") (Nope, none of that ax to grind stuff for her.)

[Nicole M]

I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.

 

I have been thinking about this all day. I have finally identified what was really bothering me about the film depictions of birth, and it is not really the screaming at all. What bothers me the most is what I perceive as unneccessary violence. I think this is also what bothers me about many of the birth stories in the other thread. If you subtract out the screaming aspect, and take "childbirth hurts" as a given and women have a right to make whatever noise they want when in pain, you still see what I perceive as an unneccessary amount of violence, not even necessarily just physical violence, but violence against the person, against the integrity of the woman against her very soul.

 

I really did think that medical care must have progressed to a point where we were able to offer women, a the time in their lives when they are both most vulnerable and most powerful (new life!), humane and professional care. I already said it, but it bears repeating, that the general level of care in the richest nation on the planet should be far better than it is. But that is another ball o' wax altogether.

 

I feel very deeply that it is a privilege to hear women's birth stories, and that it is critical that we have a safe place to tell our stories. I am sorry that I did not ask the question in the best way, but grateful that the door was opened.

[Nicole M]

I agree with this interpretation. I honestly believe that she did not know and now she does. Hopefully, she will inform her sons of this fact so that they do not go into the births' of their children with some preconceived and possibly (for their wives) incorrect ideas.

 

To be honest, I think you overstepped by bringing my sons into this conversation. But I see your point. I am not sorry that my oldest has in his memory bank somewhere an experience of a peaceful, humane birth. As I mentioned in a previous post, it is the violence that bothers me more than the screaming, and I firmly believe that husbands can and should be enpowered to create a safe, non-violent environment for their wives to give birth. My boys have been raised in an home where they will have the tools to support their wives.

 

That said, I am not holding my breath for grandchildren. One of my boys would need to decide to bathe more regularly before any woman would come close to him.

[Kathy in MD]

I begged for a general, too. They assured me it would be fine. Well, I couldn't feel my legs at all, but the rest of me was feeling it. My dh was with me and was so horrified. They were mercifully fast getting ds out and the morphine was plentiful once he was out, but still...

 

It may be kind of mean of me, but I do tell my teenage nieces about what happened. It's my personal contribution to reducing the number of teen pregnancies.

 

:lol: It even works into adulthood! I was in my early 20's when a 12 yo was screaming for hours during her delivery. It was even audible in the nursery area. I swore right there and then I would't give birth! We adopted :D

[katemary63]

I don't think anyone was saying there was anything wrong or weird about being scared. The objection was the suggestion that fear is the *only* reason a woman would scream. Personally I think screaming is a pretty natural reaction to numerous emotions and physical sensations.

 

Rosie

 

I like you Rosie! I too, think screaming is natural sometimes. I screamed during 2 of my births as well as a couple other not -so -fun situations in my life! I DON'T think screaming means you're out of control. That's my point. And I don't think screaming means you’re scared. You MAY be scared. But screaming isn't evidence of it necessarily.

One time, when I was frustrated with my adult son and some stupid choices he was making - I DECIDED to go out into the horse pasture and scream. I got on my 4-wheeler, drove out there, got off in the middle of the pasture and just let out a boat load of bloody screams at the top of my lungs! I did it intentionally to release some of my frustration. Then I went home and gave my son a hug. Very much in control of myself the whole time.

[cathmom]

I feel very deeply that it is a privilege to hear women's birth stories, and that it is critical that we have a safe place to tell our stories. I am sorry that I did not ask the question in the best way, but grateful that the door was opened.

 

Have you read Ina May's Guide to Childbirth? It is the best book about birth I ever read! The book starts with 120 wonderful pages of birth stories from The Farm.

[PeterPan]

Have you read Ina May's Guide to Childbirth? It is the best book about birth I ever read! The book starts with 120 wonderful pages of birth stories from The Farm.

 

Oh my goodness, that is THE BOOK to read... I read it before I had my new baby (not so new, almost 8 months!), and it was such a blessing. There's this story about a lady with a posterior baby, and large to boot, who came through like a champ. The whole time she chanted to herself, "I'm gonna open up BIG. I'm gonna open up BIG..." and that's what I did! I sat there the whole time in the water, with each and every (double, one on top of another) contraction welcoming them and saying that over and over... And it was AMAZING, because that's literally what happened! Cuz honey, when you push out 11 pounders, you're gonna go way bigger than 10 cm. At 10 cm, his head wasn't even engaged, haha.

 

I've heard a story that a local woman, many years ago, gave birth to a 19 pounder and that people from all over drove to see him. Shudder...

[KidsHappen]

To be honest, I think you overstepped by bringing my sons into this conversation. But I see your point. I am not sorry that my oldest has in his memory bank somewhere an experience of a peaceful, humane birth. As I mentioned in a previous post, it is the violence that bothers me more than the screaming, and I firmly believe that husbands can and should be enpowered to create a safe, non-violent environment for their wives to give birth. My boys have been raised in an home where they will have the tools to support their wives.

 

 

If so I do appologize. I certainly didn't mean to offend. I was responding to your post in the other thread:

 

 

 

When we watched Caspian together, after my boys had already seen it, they said, "Mom, we'll fast forward this part, because you're not going to like it," and, "It's a birth mom, and we know, we know! It's not really like that."

 

 

 

Since you had mentioned them and then went on to state that you did not know that women really screamed and that you had shared that thought with them then it would stand to reason that your sons were not aware of this fact either and that this might cause them problems later in life. I was actually trying to express concern for your sons and I would still hope that all the tools that you speak of includes the information about the full range of birth experiences. You are right though, it's not really my place to do that and I am sorry. All I can say in my defense is that I meant well.

 

 

I haven't watched either of the movies you referred to so I am not exactly sure what you mean by the violence. I personally had midwives attending me at home or in a birth center with my last four children. There was no drugs and no violence. I felt like I was in safe, non-violent place and I was not afraid and I still screamed because it hurt. My husband was there and very supportive but he couldn't stop the pain. But I can see that if he had come to the births with the preconceived notion that women didn't really scream it would either have caused some serious tension or he would have been alarmed and concerned and would not have been able to support me as well as he did. Neither of which would have been very conducive to being a loving supportive partner.

[KidsHappen]

Have you read Ina May's Guide to Childbirth? It is the best book about birth I ever read! The book starts with 120 wonderful pages of birth stories from The Farm.

 

I've read this and I actually want to go there to give birth on the Farm. By the time I got to TN though my baby making days were long gone.

[PeterPan]

Yes, the screaming scares the man, both because he doesn't expect such intensity and because there's nothing he can do about it. Birth is pretty traumatic for my dh and the pain sticks with him much longer than me. For me, I have that baby in my arms, but it's a vivid memory to him, the claw marks, the screaming, the... Hahaha, and here I am this morning telling someone I want to get pregnant again! :)

[cathmom]

Yes, the screaming scares the man, both because he doesn't expect such intensity and because there's nothing he can do about it. Birth is pretty traumatic for my dh and the pain sticks with him much longer than me. For me, I have that baby in my arms, but it's a vivid memory to him, the claw marks, the screaming, the... Hahaha, and here I am this morning telling someone I want to get pregnant again! :)

 

I agree - my labors/births have wiped my dh out more than me!

[Night Elf]

I really did think that medical care must have progressed to a point where we were able to offer women, a the time in their lives when they are both most vulnerable and most powerful (new life!), humane and professional care.

 

I've birthed 3 babies, all in the hospital due to insurance requirements. I've never experienced a doctor, midwife, or nurse that worked with me as a caring person. I always felt like just another patient. My deliveries were all managed by the staff to be convenient for them, fitting me in with the other women on the floor giving birth as well. Their job is to deliver babies day in and day out. I feel like they lose that personal touch as their routine becomes automatic and unemotional.

[PeterPan]

I've birthed 3 babies, all in the hospital due to insurance requirements. I've never experienced a doctor, midwife, or nurse that worked with me as a caring person. I always felt like just another patient. My deliveries were all managed by the staff to be convenient for them, fitting me in with the other women on the floor giving birth as well. Their job is to deliver babies day in and day out. I feel like they lose that personal touch as their routine becomes automatic and unemotional.

 

And my home birth was so the opposite. I was totally in control. I had two midwives comforting me, and dh was able to flee most of the time, coming in just at the end. (It's really a better way to give birth, as a woman event.) We talked about homeschooling and trips and just anything we wanted to. I ate, did things as I wanted, finally saying I was going to go to the bathroom and then we'd push the baby out! It was just so the opposite of what some women experience in the hospital: it was empowering, strengthening, and me doing my thing. Some women have great births in the hospital and some don't. Home, and that support of women, worked out really well for us. I think having caring doulas around you in the hospital would work too. I'll tell you though, even the hospital midwife births I've seen on tv, where the midwife is a CNM, seem barbaric to me. They're still focused on procedure, not being there with the mother. I love that level of empathy and WITH ME ness the midwives brought to the time. And how can you not want someone with you who says, "Oh, I'm so looking forward to birthing in that tub again!" (meaning for herself, a woman who actually has strong, good memories of birth!) :)

[KidsHappen]

And my home birth was so the opposite. I was totally in control. I had two midwives comforting me, and dh was able to flee most of the time, coming in just at the end. (It's really a better way to give birth, as a woman event.) We talked about homeschooling and trips and just anything we wanted to. I ate, did things as I wanted, finally saying I was going to go to the bathroom and then we'd push the baby out! It was just so the opposite of what some women experience in the hospital: it was empowering, strengthening, and me doing my thing. Some women have great births in the hospital and some don't. Home, and that support of women, worked out really well for us. I think having caring doulas around you in the hospital would work too. I'll tell you though, even the hospital midwife births I've seen on tv, where the midwife is a CNM, seem barbaric to me. They're still focused on procedure, not being there with the mother. I love that level of empathy and WITH ME ness the midwives brought to the time. And how can you not want someone with you who says, "Oh, I'm so looking forward to birthing in that tub again!" (meaning for herself, a woman who actually has strong, good memories of birth!) :)

 

 

I personally would not have made it through two of the deliveries without my hubby. While I do remember the pain, I also remember the connection I made with my hubby and how that carried me through. It was a very intimate connection that I could not have made with another person and it is one of the strongest bonds that I have with my hubby. When I was looking into his eyes and he was guiding me through, time stood still and it went to the very core of my being. It was an overwhelming experience and I still feel it intensely these many years later. It was the ultimate WITH ME ness. I wouldn't have given that up for anything. And I would have been pretrified if I had to go through that without my hubby.

 

Finally, I wanted to state that it is possible to get good care from a midwife in a hospital these days. My dd had her baby in a hospital with a male midwife in attendance. I can not even begin to explain what a great job he did and how incredbily thankful I was to have gotten him. They lost the baby's heartbeat many times during labor and the midwife always knew exactly what to do and how to do it. It had reached a point where the other midwife and the nurses were talking about a c-section but he said no, let's try something else first. And he stayed with us and worked with us and he explained to her hubby and I how important we were to the process and to supporting her. He got her though many trials and difficulty and he managed to deliver the baby naturally under extreme life threatening circumstances with no drugs or other major invasive procedures. It turns out that the baby had a very rare condition in which the umbilical cord was not attached to the placenta. Only the veins were attached and they had no cushioning and protection. That's why the heartbeat kept going down. After the baby was born he told us that no birth attendant in their right mind would have attempted to delivery that baby by any method other than a c-section if they had known about the condition. But he managed just fine and the baby and mother were both perfectly healthy. I really don't think that there is any way that we could have had a better experience and outsome given the circumstances. Of course, we just got lucky getting him but there is hope which is progress from where we were many years ago.

[tdeveson]

That Bradley method book, too - all lies. Birth hurts.

 

We did all that. Bradley, breathing exercises. It was a colossal waste of time and energy. Only a man who has never given birth would stand there with a straight face and tell you that if you breathe just so it won't hurt. The calamity is that so many women believed that and felt they were failures because they were not able to "control" their birth pain. I find that unforgivable.

[tdeveson]

And my home birth was so the opposite. I was totally in control.

 

I have done it both ways. With my first, I went to the hospital and had my water broken because my doctor needed to make the opera on time.

 

I had a subsequent delivery with a midwife in my home.

 

Having given birth both ways, I can say without hesitation that I would never recommend that a woman go to a hospital unless she has a medical condition that requires it or women who prefer pain relief.

 

It's a pity that midwives are not allowed to give women anything to ease their pain. I would have loved to have my son without pain, but doctors do not allow that. It would cut into their profits.

[Impish]

Just wanted to pop in and agree with the poster who felt her csection. My first child was a c section, and I felt it. Boy did I feel it. I was screaming and screaming...The anesthesiologist was leaning down in my face telling me, "You just feel pressure, that's all, just pressure" while I screamed. The OB told her, "Knock her the f*** out, do something." :glare: I was given a horse syringe of Valium that finally knocked me sideways. By the time my son was born, they had him wrapped and were holding him above me, showing him to me. I kept saying, "I can't see his face, I can't see his face!" Uh...I was too stoned to realize my eyes were closed :glare:

[Carol in Cal.]

We did all that. Bradley, breathing exercises. It was a colossal waste of time and energy. Only a man who has never given birth would stand there with a straight face and tell you that if you breathe just so it won't hurt. The calamity is that so many women believed that and felt they were failures because they were not able to "control" their birth pain. I find that unforgivable.

 

...that making women feel like failures because they resorted to drugs or even wanted to or felt pain at all is horrible.

 

Have to say, though, that the Bradley techniques were the most helpful ones I learned, and I did take several childbirth prep classes and read up a lot. I just didn't take the whole shebang at face value. It's one thing to deeply, deeply relax so as to avoid fighting yourself. It's another to pretend that that makes the pain completely disappear. However, Bradley got me to transition before having an epidural; and if you knew my family history, you would realize what a miracle that is. OTOH, if DH had taken the Bradley class and had been inspired by it to do ANYTHING except get me drugs when I darn good and well wanted them, I think I would have flayed him.

[PeterPan]

Yeah, don't even get me started on the lie that is Bradley. I was stupid enough to read that and believe it before my first birth. I spent the whole time going "Why is this hurting so much if I'm willing to relax and breath?!?!~" Bad, bad, bad. Only a man could be such an idiot. This time it hurt, so I screamed and told everyone (just to keep them informed), the midwife I suggested I praise Jesus it hurt, and that was the end of it, no big deal. But it would have been awfully ugly if I had thought it wasn't supposed to hurt. 11 pounds don't come out without some ugliness! :)