Want to find a country that suits MY value system more so...

[BalanceSeeker]

You have a truly fresh perspective -- much more than I'd imagined. I'm honestly impressed the Saudi Arabia is your ideal of freedom. (They do need nurses, if you want a job.) I'd never had an urge to live there before, but I'm rethinking everything! You should be able to find lots of domestic help; that's par for the course. I think you're on to something....What a person does in private (as opposed to in public) is not generally of much interest in Saudi Arabia. Certainly being personally extravagant won't be curtailed there any time soon. It's virtually impossible to become a citizen, though. That's a bit of a trick. But you might be able to live there.

 

(Don't worry about the driving thing -- you can get a driver, and probably the laws about women driving will be changed. It's not as if the men have much to recommend them in terms of driving safety -- it's quite dangerous. Apparently this is another example where "freedom" shouldn't be curtailed by following the driving rules.)

 

Certainly all the Gulf countries will give you the opportunity to experience 123 degree temperature, and embrace you for wanting to run the A/C. Perhaps consider UAE and Qatar as well. Yemen, I'm not so sure about the prevalence of A/C, but the government may be lax.

 

Saudi Arabia was mentioned tongue in cheek :tongue_smilie: I'm pretty certain that Spy Car meant it to be tongue in cheek, anyway :001_smile:

 

Christa

[Soph the vet]

I'm curious in what ways you see the freedom to speak as you wish being curtailed.

 

 

Oh, I don't know...the Fairness Doctrine or maybe current "hate crimes" legislation being considered, I think it is Senate Bill S909. It is a slippery slope to First Amendment violations, IMO.

[Danestress]

I've been to Costa Rica. Aside from crummy roads, I didn't want to leave! (I had dental work done there...amazing medical care for much less!) They did the best job.

 

 

 

That you can get really excellent care there, and that they actually have tourism package deals for people coming for health care. And yet, don't they have a socialist medical system where low cost care is available for everyone regardless of ability to pay and then people have an option to pay more for services that they want outside the plan?

 

I wish we had something like that in America.

[Soph the vet]

I plan on staying in the US and working my fingers to the bone to make sure we remain "the land of the free". Running isn't the answer.

My passport is not current anyway so I'm with you on this!:lol:

[PineFarmMom]

Oh, I don't know...the Fairness Doctrine or maybe current "hate crimes" legislation being considered, I think it is Senate Bill S909. It is a slippery slope to First Amendment violations, IMO.

 

It all seems so in-your-face these days. It's like the Emperor has no clothes...people are trying to smile and deny it, call it something else, but come on!!! :glare:

[Impish]

I'm a Canadian, and the comments about socialized medicine always bug me. The reason we have longer waiting times is that EVERYONE that needs treatment gets it. NOBODY gets denied because they can't pay, or their insurance company tells them no. I'm getting somewhat of an idea of what thats like, having to deal with Workers Comp, and its horrid. Insurance companies in the US meddle far more in personal health care than anything the Canadian government could DREAM of. I'd rather have to wait longer than to know that there are some needing treatment and not getting it because of the almighty dollar.

 

There are no media stories here about a child needing an operation and not getting it...Over the years, I've read multiple articles about that exact situation in the States. I have friends that are American, and they delay seeing the Dr because of the copay. I wonder how many more days are lost from work because folks don't go because of copay and then end up even more ill as a result.

 

As far as the OP goes, instead of moving countries, try building a geothermal home. No more utility bills for heating and cooling, and I believe that water is part of it too. All you have for a monthly bill is phone, etc.

[BalanceSeeker]

I'm a Canadian, and the comments about socialized medicine always bug me. The reason we have longer waiting times is that EVERYONE that needs treatment gets it. NOBODY gets denied because they can't pay, or their insurance company tells them no. I'm getting somewhat of an idea of what thats like, having to deal with Workers Comp, and its horrid. Insurance companies in the US meddle far more in personal health care than anything the Canadian government could DREAM of. I'd rather have to wait longer than to know that there are some needing treatment and not getting it because of the almighty dollar.

 

There are no media stories here about a child needing an operation and not getting it...Over the years, I've read multiple articles about that exact situation in the States. I have friends that are American, and they delay seeing the Dr because of the copay. I wonder how many more days are lost from work because folks don't go because of copay and then end up even more ill as a result.

 

As far as the OP goes, instead of moving countries, try building a geothermal home. No more utility bills for heating and cooling, and I believe that water is part of it too. All you have for a monthly bill is phone, etc.

 

Since I can't afford to build a new home, how does one go about turning an existing home into a "geothermal" home?

[Melinda in VT]

That you can get really excellent care there, and that they actually have tourism package deals for people coming for health care. And yet, don't they have a socialist medical system where low cost care is available for everyone regardless of ability to pay and then people have an option to pay more for services that they want outside the plan?

 

I wish we had something like that in America.

 

I actually have first-hand experience with health care in Costa Rica. Lucky me. :tongue_smilie:

 

Several years ago, my then-6yo required the following:

* examination at a local health clinic (no charge)

* transport via boat and then ambulance to the nearest hospital

* abdominal ultrasounds, x-rays of chest, head, and arm

* IV with liquids (I paid about $60, all I had in my wallet to this hospital)

* transport via ambulance to a larger hospital about 2 hours (?) away

* more ultrasounds

* more IV liquids

* bed in a pediatric ward for about 40 hours

 

We paid the last hospital about $200 dollars. They would not accept a credit card, and they did not want us to go to an ATM to get more cash. They asked what DH had in his wallet and took $200. The actual bill was for $600, which we still thought was ridiculously cheap.

 

They were very gracious to us, even though we checked our son out of the hospital against medical advice. (They wanted him to eat, and I knew he would not eat their hospital food.)

[Perry]

That you can get really excellent care there, and that they actually have tourism package deals for people coming for health care. And yet, don't they have a socialist medical system where low cost care is available for everyone regardless of ability to pay and then people have an option to pay more for services that they want outside the plan?

 

I wish we had something like that in America.

 

 

Dh (a physician) went on a medical mission to CR several years ago. He saw some horrible things, extremely ill children with preventable, easily treatable conditions that had no access to medical care. I'll ask him for details when he gets home- but I know these people were not receiving good health care.

[emeraldjoy]

Well....

You are talking about permanantly relocating your family to a virtually non-existant place....the idea of a geothermal home doesn't really seem too far fetched in relation to that.

Seriously though, I love the idea of some enviromental solutions....we do have some control over those.

e

Since I can't afford to build a new home, how does one go about turning an existing home into a "geothermal" home?

Edited May 20, 2009 by emeraldjoy
to to too

[WishboneDawn]

Since I can't afford to build a new home, how does one go about turning an existing home into a "geothermal" home?

 

There's a good philosophical point in that. Moving somewhere where you can turn your AC up as much as you want isn't about the freedom of personal responsibility. It's just offloading that responsibility to others down the line in terms of generating the power you use and cleaning up the polution created.

 

Real personal responsibility would be reducing dependence on those others or generating your own power.

[Danestress]

As if they really wanted me anyway:)

 

I actually love the US and think we have it pretty good here in terms of quality of life.

[Donna T.]

DH and I joke that we're hoping that Texas exercises it's right to secede from the US, then we would move there. Otherwise, I'm not sure you could do much better than here.

 

With all due respect, not trying to be snarky here, but I don't think one should joke about such a thing. If/when that occurs, there will be bloodshed. Do you think such a thing would happen peacefully? It saddens me that conservatives are being pulled into this effort. Those who are doing the pulling are professional agitators. I turned them off a long time ago.

 

"By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing wither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: for he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God." - Hebrew 11: 8-10

 

"And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city." Hebrews 11:15-16

 

:patriot: I love America and you won't find me relocating. However, I'm looking for that city and until then, I'm praying for a quite and peaceful life.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Donna T.

[Impish]

There are ways to turn existing homes into geothermal, but I *believe* that living on an acreage is somewhat of a requirement, since there is drilling, etc.

 

I know Wolf's cousins, who live in SK were going to turn their house geothermal, but they decided that they wanted to move instead, and will do so with their next place. They live on an acreage and are moving to another.

[JenniferB]

Speak for yourself! ; ) It was 115 when we were house-hunting here in Tri-Cities almost three years ago. It gets VERY hot here, although not humid, thank God!

 

Oops, I should have clarified, Western Washington. We have about 3 hot days per year. (Of course I'm exaggerating, but just a little.) Not worth the A/C investment.

[SonshineLearner]

We'll join you! :001_smile: My dad has always said he would like to move to Tonga.

 

Funny you'd mention Tonga! It has a King, they still walk backwards when leaving his presence. The kingdom went to?? can't remember who... after the king died at 90+ within the last couple of years. It was going to go to his son, I believe, but some wreckless (drunk?) person killed him while he was driving with his wife.,...I think it was...in maybe California??

 

Anyway, the whole middle and maybe more...was burned down in revolt.

 

The poor people are seriously POOR and the rich are rich....The schools are terrible. The missionaries started a somewhat Classical school...don't know if it's still going.

 

BUT, there is incredible papaya, mango and other such great food. The people are relaxed! There's almost no such thing as time...

 

You have to fly or boat over from Figi (sp) when you want to go. I think the plane goes maybe a couple of times a week or so...

 

Anyway, my father has been able to go several times and I'd love to visit there...but not live.

 

Carrie

[OnTheBrink]

I'm not an extremist at all. I just don't think I want to live in the U.S. long-term. Hubby and I basically just want to be left alone so we can be free and happy. I want to be able to turn on my A/C when it's 123 degrees and not pay exhorbitant taxes because I like being comfortable in my home. I want to decide the best way to spend my hard-earned money. And my list goes on. I'm conservative, and would love the place I live to reflect my values. Is there any country that would be a better fit for me?

 

I don't want to spark a debate, this is a truly innocent question!

 

Christa

 

I completely understand where you're coming from. But, (and there's that but!) every one I've ever known who's been out of the US for any length of time has come back loving the US more.

[Lady Lorna]

Having traveled in the past year to Mexico, Germany, the Czech Republic, Spain, and Ukraine (and having spent eight weeks since February in Ukraine), I can truly say I'm one of those who came back to the US loving it more--and I loved it before I left. Every country has its problems, and the US has plenty, but I wouldn't trade my life here for anything. I'm not saying I can't appreciate other countries or cultures; I'm just saying this one is mine.

[BalanceSeeker]

There's a good philosophical point in that. Moving somewhere where you can turn your AC up as much as you want isn't about the freedom of personal responsibility. It's just offloading that responsibility to others down the line in terms of generating the power you use and cleaning up the polution created.

 

Real personal responsibility would be reducing dependence on those others or generating your own power.

 

Yeah, this was definitely not my point AT ALL. Just an example of a government that is getting too big in MY opinion. We all have our own, though.

 

ETA: We keep our house at a miserable 86 degrees in the summer. Hardly shucking my responsibility off on other people.

[Danestress]

I know when I lived there (just for a summer, with my In-laws who lived there for 30 years) there was some sort of "schedule" where you paid more for electricity at certain times of day than at others. So MIL always tried to run the dishwasher and to do laundry late at night or early in the morning. But I think that was the utility company - not the government. Have they actually passed laws penalizing electricity use?

 

It was so entirely miserable to live there. I don't think that at the times there were legal restrictions that made it that way - it was just too expensive to cool a house to a point that most people would find comfortable. My in-laws were not poor, and they kept their house so warm I just suffocated inside or out the entire time!

Edited May 20, 2009 by Danestress

[BalanceSeeker]

I know when I lived there (just for a summer, with my In-laws who lived there for 30 years) there was some sort of "schedule" where you paid more for electricity at certain times of day than at others. So MIL always tried to run the dishwasher and to do laundry late at night or early in the morning. But I think that was the utility company - not the government. Have they actually passed laws penalizing electricity use?

 

It was so entirely miserable to live there. I don't think that at the times there were legal restrictions that made it that way - it was just too expensive to cool a house to a point that most people would find comfortable. My in-laws were not poor, and they kept their house so warm I just suffocated inside or out the entire time!

 

That is called the equalizer plan. It didn't really work for us. We are truly frugal. I try not to run the d/w, or do too many loads of laundry (I wash whites and colors together to save), we turn lights off, we try to not turn on the A/C. We are sweating buckets in the summer, and our electric bill is still $500. If I am penalized for running my A/C even to the lesser extent that I do already, I will not be able to afford to live in my home because of the electric bill alone.

 

Being taxed for this (cap and trade) is just one thing I'm concerned about. There is a very long list.

Edited May 20, 2009 by BalanceSeeker

[stripe]

Saudi Arabia was mentioned tongue in cheek :tongue_smilie: I'm pretty certain that Spy Car meant it to be tongue in cheek, anyway :001_smile:

 

Christa

 

Yeah, I realized on second thought that they do offer universal health care, as do all rich countries (except the US) -- they've got money to spend on their citizens. But if you moved there, you'd have to pay for your own (or your employer? not sure) -- that could count as personal responsibility, but might not.

 

So that counts out most or all of Europe, many parts of Asia (India, Singapore, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, Malaysia, Kuwait, Hong Kong, Japan, Brunei, ....), New Zealand & Australia, Canada, many parts of Central and South America (Peru, Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina, Chile, Cuba, Costa Rica, Uruguay,...) and Mexico is aiming to accomplish it in the next few years.

 

That leaves a few countries for you to pick from. Now, if you make a list of them PLUS the ones with reliable electricity (keeping in mind that in most places, both water and electricity are significantly more expensive), then chart personal freedoms, I'm sure you'll have an interesting list.

 

Maybe the UAE is worth investigating. They have a scheme being cooked up for a healthcare city in Dubai, but I'm not certain that universal health care for citizens is very relevant, seeing as citizens are less than 1/4 of the residents.

[WishboneDawn]

Yeah, this was definitely not my point AT ALL. Just an example of a government that is getting too big in MY opinion. We all have our own, though.

 

ETA: We keep our house at a miserable 86 degrees in the summer. Hardly shucking my responsibility off on other people.

 

Sorry...Please disregard then. I am an absolute champ at taking the wrong meaning from things AND/OR at running off on a tangent and picking apart ideas that aren't really related to the main point. :D No insult meant but I do apologize the offense!

[hana]

That is called the equalizer plan. It didn't really work for us. We are truly frugal. I try not to run the d/w, or do too many loads of laundry (I wash whites and colors together to save), we turn lights off, we try to not turn on the A/C. We are sweating buckets in the summer, and our electric bill is still $500. If I am penalized for running my A/C even to the lesser extent that I do already, I will not be able to afford to live in my home because of the electric bill alone.

 

Being taxed for this (cap and trade) is just one thing I'm concerned about. There is a very long list.

 

I'm curious--how are you being penalized? How much of this $500 bill is tax and where does the tax go? (I live where we pay $500 to stay warm in the winter, so I know nothing about A/C.)

[Rosie_0801]

Funny you'd mention Tonga! It has a King, they still walk backwards when leaving his presence.

 

Don't laugh. The same happens in the US, you know. In the SCA, heheheh, where the king is probably an engineer for a day job. At least the Tongan king is a real king!

 

:)

Rosie

[mama2cntrykids]

My husband oversees his investments and portfolio, manages his household and foundations. Just think Joseph from the Bible, for modern times.

 

Anyway, this man, who is a millionaire, would agree with many of you here, in terms of feeling his freedom infringed upon and more importantly, being punished for his success. So, he's currently moving most of his assets offshore and he's presently in New Zealand researching that country as a possible country for emmigration should things in this country continue down this high-regulation, less individual freedom path.

 

His family are multi-millionaires, but in many ways I don't envy their position. They pay over 60% of their income in taxes! He has been targeted for his conservative beliefs by government agencies on more than one occasion. He's been investigated for having firearms and hosting political fundraisers in his house. All of which would be considered harmless if done by the average citizen, but his exceptional wealth makes him a bigger target.

 

The saddest part of all this is that just 15 years ago, this man and his family were just like us...he started his business in his daughter's bedroom. He's lived the American dream and now, in many respects, he's being punished for it.

 

That is sad, sad, sad! Kudos to him though for *working* his way up. So many ppl are unwilling to do so.

[BalanceSeeker]

I'm curious--how are you being penalized? How much of this $500 bill is tax and where does the tax go? (I live where we pay $500 to stay warm in the winter, so I know nothing about A/C.)

 

I'm talking about the cap and trade that is probably going to go into effect. Essentially punishing people for using electricity by taxing them. It's coming down the pike.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I am happy to live in the U.S. and to pay my fair share of taxes. Our goverment is not perfect, but I thank God that we have the power of the vote.

On the flip side, if we did not pay taxes or have reasonable regulations then the following might happen:

1. No maintained roads/highways

2. No police forces to help uphold the law

3. No firemen to help put out fires

4. Businesses able to do what they want like pour chemicals/pollutants into our waterways, air and on the land.

5. No social safety network for the millions of americans who are less fortunate than us.

6. Health insurance companies being able to gouge us even more and turn down coverage for even more us.

7. No army to help protect us, etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do get frustrated with goverment waste, needless tax increases, people not pulling themselves up by their boot straps or taking advantage of the system. I also love capitalism, but I think that there needs to be reasonable regulations since downright greed often shows itself and as result bad business actions that are harmful/hurtful occur.

 

In terms of healthcare, you do not hear many americans complaining about their medicare coverage. I know that I would be thrilled to have the same offered to every american. I would rather our goverment making healthcare decisions than a private insurance company who is only motivated by the bottom line. At least with our goverment, we can vote them out of office.:)

 

This is just my two cents. I do have loved ones who definately agree with the OP and so I can relate.:)

[BalanceSeeker]

Don't get me wrong, I do get frustrated with goverment waste, needless tax increases, people not pulling themselves up by their boot straps or taking advantage of the system. I also love capitalism, but I think that there needs to be reasonable regulations since downright greed often shows itself and as result bad business actions that are harmful/hurtful occur.

 

^^^This :iagree:. This probably summarizes my thoughts better than I could have said it for myself.

 

For the record, I never said I wasn't happy to pay my FAIR share of taxes. FAIR being the operative word ;)

 

And yes, capitalism, like all good things, have to be somewhat regulated so that a good thing isn't ruined for everyone. There's a big difference between socialism and protection.

 

Great thoughts from everyone. Thanks to all who contributed their .02. I'm working through a lot of thoughts right now, and this has helped me :001_smile:

 

Christa

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm talking about the cap and trade that is probably going to go into effect. Essentially punishing people for using electricity by taxing them. It's coming down the pike.

 

Cap and trade is not really a tax, the only place I've seen it inferred it will cost energy customers more is on Libertarian sites (and even there it is a strict slippery slope argument). The 2007 bill was introduced by Lieberman (an Independent) and John Warner (a Republican). In fact, the whole idea is to have companies lower emissions voluntarily by giving them *credits* when they have lowered emissions more than expected.

 

It's not even really aimed so much at consumers as it is manufacturers and the like. In other words, if you are a big manufacturer and you know you are going to exceed your cap then you buy products from companies with fewer emissions in order to earn credits and lower your emissions score. Maybe you turn some of your vehicle fleet into energy efficient vehicles, etc. I know this is *really* simplifying it but that's the idea.

 

The Clean Air Act (another type of cap and trade system) was extremely successful in lowering Sulfur Dioxide (such as found in acid rain) *and* lowering the cost of controlling those chemicals. According to the EPA (it's on their site, http://www.epa.gov) Sulfur Dioxide levels were cut over 40% from 1980 to 2005 (it didn't go into effect until 1995). This is actually the reason we now have "clean coal" power plants, plants finding ways to reduce their emissions (I realize there are other issues there but they have cut certain emissions).

 

Most cap and trade style laws are absolutely *not* taxes and are expected to *cut* overall energy costs for consumers as evidenced by past programs.

 

I know our energy bills were high last year (also in the $500 range) but that was because of the high oil prices. More use of renewable resources by power companies will equal less reliance on oil and more stable energy prices.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Mrs Mungo

[BalanceSeeker]

Cap and trade is not really a tax, the only place I've seen it inferred it will cost energy customers more is on Libertarian sites (and even there it is a strict slippery slope argument). The 2007 bill was introduced by Lieberman (an Independent) and John Warner (a Republican). In fact, the whole idea is to have companies lower emissions voluntarily by giving them *credits* when they have lowered emissions more than expected.

 

It's not even really aimed so much at consumers as it is manufacturers and the like. In other words, if you are a big manufacturer and you know you are going to exceed your cap then you buy products from companies with fewer emissions in order to earn credits and lower your emissions score. Maybe you turn some of your vehicle fleet into energy efficient vehicles, etc. I know this is *really* simplifying it but that's the idea.

 

The Clean Air Act (another type of cap and trade system) was extremely successful in lowering Sulfur Dioxide (such as found in acid rain) *and* lowering the cost of controlling those chemicals. According to the EPA (it's on their site, http://www.epa.gov) Sulfur Dioxide levels were cut over 40% from 1980 to 2005 (it didn't go into effect until 1995). This is actually the reason we now have "clean coal" power plants, plants finding ways to reduce their emissions (I realize there are other issues there but they have cut certain emissions).

 

Most cap and trade style laws are absolutely *not* taxes and are expected to *cut* overall energy costs for consumers as evidenced by past programs.

 

I know our energy bills were high last year (also in the $500 range) but that was because of the high oil prices. More use of renewable resources by power companies will equal less reliance on oil and more stable energy prices.

 

I read/heard that it would increase the average household's energy expenses by $1500 a year (or somewhere close to that amount).

 

I just think it's a slippery slope, that's all.

 

And, don't get me started on oil. I'm not going to touch that one with a ten foot pole on this thread :confused:

[Mrs Mungo]

I read/heard that it would increase the average household's energy expenses by $1500 a year (or somewhere close to that amount).

 

I just think it's a slippery slope, that's all.

 

And, don't get me started on oil. I'm not going to touch that one with a ten foot pole on this thread :confused:

 

Again, the first cap and trade program was the Clean Air Act in 1990. Since then several presidents (including President Bush) have signed various forms of cap and trade programs for reducing emissions into law. One of President Bush's programs reduced nitrogen oxide released into the atmosphere by 11% between 2004 and 2005.

 

A quote from the epa's website:

The analysis, conducted as part of an annual report on the NOx Budget Trading Program, shows that eastern states have reduced NOx emissions by 57 percent since 2000 and by 72 percent since 1990. In addition, based on 2003-2005 air monitoring data, nearly 70 percent of the areas that did not meet the national air quality standard for 8-hour ozone in 2004 now have better air quality than the standard requires. The NOx Budget Trading Program is the major contributor to these improvements. The Bush Administration's Clean Air Interstate Rule will continue this success with further reductions in ozone-forming emissions.

These are great, bipartisan programs that have been proven over the last 20 years to reduce pollutants *and* energy costs. ed for math because I am lacking in caffeine this morning. Edited May 20, 2009 by Mrs Mungo

[mommyrooch]

I am happy to live in the U.S. and to pay my fair share of taxes. Our goverment is not perfect, but I thank God that we have the power of the vote.

On the flip side, if we did not pay taxes or have reasonable regulations then the following might happen:

1. No maintained roads/highways

2. No police forces to help uphold the law

3. No firemen to help put out fires

4. Businesses able to do what they want like pour chemicals/pollutants into our waterways, air and on the land.

5. No social safety network for the millions of americans who are less fortunate than us.

6. Health insurance companies being able to gouge us even more and turn down coverage for even more us.

7. No army to help protect us, etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do get frustrated with goverment waste, needless tax increases, people not pulling themselves up by their boot straps or taking advantage of the system. I also love capitalism, but I think that there needs to be reasonable regulations since downright greed often shows itself and as result bad business actions that are harmful/hurtful occur.

 

In terms of healthcare, you do not hear many americans complaining about their medicare coverage. I know that I would be thrilled to have the same offered to every american. I would rather our goverment making healthcare decisions than a private insurance company who is only motivated by the bottom line. At least with our goverment, we can vote them out of office.:)

 

This is just my two cents. I do have loved ones who definately agree with the OP and so I can relate.:)

 

Priscilla, I think you just summed up my take on government. Greed unfortunately often rules out in the end and if there is not some form of tax to balance the scales then our country would be over run by the wealthy and greedy (not all but most) and the poor and needy would fall.

 

Our government must require by law that taxes be paid. If left solely up to us most individuals would not give part with their money so our government must force them to. I believe in this because I believe in helping others. If this means that my tax dollars will go up in order to make healthcare accessable to everyone or to help the needy then sign me up! I will happily pay more taxes for that. :patriot:

 

When you mention roads, police, fire etc. it really made me wonder where some peoples priorities lie.

 

Most Americans pay taxes for roads, police, fire etc. and when the money is used for these reasons you usually don't hear the word "socialism". In fact, most would consider it their civic duty. But mention "sharing the wealth" or allotting tax dollars to the poor or to accessable healthcare then all of sudden we are becomming a socialist nation. Where's the logic in that? Our government already takes our money and uses it as they deem necessary. You might as well say that because you already have to pay taxes for roads and civic services then we must already be a socialist nation. Why does it matter whether our tax dollars go to roads or to making sure not one child with cancer is denied medical care regardless of pre-existing conditions or income status? Isn't it hypocritical to say that we are heading towards socialism if our government uses our money to help the poor or provide accessible heathcare to all because they feel that's where it's most needed for our nation but not call it socialism when our government already takes our money and uses it for roads and such.

 

My point is this, regardless of where the tax dollars are going they are already being taken out of American pockets and divied up as our government sees fit. What makes our current status as a nation any different than the past? Is the issue really that the government is taxing us (which is just part of being an American) or that we just don't like where those dollars are going.? Makes me wonder. :confused:

 

Personally, I would much rather my hard earned dollars go to a poor family that doesn't have a meal tonight or to a child that can't get his chemo because his claim was denied based on a pre-existing condition than have my money go to something like roads. While transportation is important, what's more important, easy accessability or the life and welfare of another human being? Seems like a pretty logical answer to me but maybe I'm the one with skewed priorities.

 

Blessings :001_smile:

[BalanceSeeker]

Priscilla, I think you just summed up my take on government. Greed unfortunately often rules out in the end and if there is not some form of tax to balance the scales then our country would be over run by the wealthy and greedy (not all but most) and the poor and needy would fall.

 

Our government must require by law that taxes be paid. If left solely up to us most individuals would not give part with their money so our government must force them to. I believe in this because I believe in helping others. If this means that my tax dollars will go up in order to make healthcare accessable to everyone or to help the needy then sign me up! I will happily pay more taxes for that. :patriot:

 

When you mention roads, police, fire etc. it really made me wonder where some peoples priorities lie.

 

Most Americans pay taxes for roads, police, fire etc. and when the money is used for these reasons you usually don't hear the word "socialism". In fact, most would consider it their civic duty. But mention "sharing the wealth" or allotting tax dollars to the poor or to accessable healthcare then all of sudden we are becomming a socialist nation. Where's the logic in that? Our government already takes our money and uses it as they deem necessary. You might as well say that because you already have to pay taxes for roads and civic services then we must already be a socialist nation. Why does it matter whether our tax dollars go to roads or to making sure not one child with cancer is denied medical care regardless of pre-existing conditions or income status? Isn't it hypocritical to say that we are heading towards socialism if our government uses our money to help the poor or provide accessible heathcare to all because they feel that's where it's most needed for our nation but not call it socialism when our government already takes our money and uses it for roads and such.

 

My point is this, regardless of where the tax dollars are going they are already being taken out of American pockets and divied up as our government sees fit. What makes our current status as a nation any different than the past? Is the issue really that the government is taxing us (which is just part of being an American) or that we just don't like where those dollars are going.? Makes me wonder. :confused:

 

Personally, I would much rather my hard earned dollars go to a poor family that doesn't have a meal tonight or to a child that can't get his chemo because his claim was denied based on a pre-existing condition than have my money go to something like roads. While transportation is important, what's more important, easy accessability or the life and welfare of another human being? Seems like a pretty logical answer to me but maybe I'm the one with skewed priorities.

 

Blessings :001_smile:

 

So, let's see. You've deduced from my OP that I

a) don't believe in taxes

b) don't believe in helping the poor, and

c) don't like where any of my tax dollars are going.

 

You've missed the whole point and/or you've read meanings into my statements that were never there to begin with.

[mommyrooch]

So, let's see. You've deduced from my OP that I

a) don't believe in taxes

b) don't believe in helping the poor, and

c) don't like where any of my tax dollars are going.

 

You've missed the whole point and/or you've read meanings into my statements that were never there to begin with.

 

I never singled you out in that post. That is an assumption that you made. I never stated anyone in particular, just a mindset in general.

 

My post was not directed towards you and I'm sorry you thought that. Definitely not my intention. :)

[SFP]

Re: Costa Rica

 

If I'm not mistaken, the government taxes gasoline in order to pay landowners for growing trees and wants to reach carbon neutrality at some point by 2030--or before.

 

Not that I'm opposed that in the slightest. . .

[Melinda in VT]

Re: Costa Rica

 

If I'm not mistaken, the government taxes gasoline in order to pay landowners for growing trees and wants to reach carbon neutrality at some point by 2030--or before.

 

Not that I'm opposed that in the slightest. . .

 

Maybe their roads are so bad because if people don't drive they will reach carbon neutrality sooner. :D

[catalinakel]

I do rest in the fact that God is in control. I'd welcome Jesus coming with open arms.

 

I LOVE my country. The old one. Heck, our dog's name is Liberty! I just don't recognize my country anymore based on the changes where we are becoming like everyone else. I don't see the majority of the changes as good, although some might be. Maybe a change in state is overdue. The federal govt would just get bigger anywhere, though.

 

Socialized medicine. Phooey. Long wait times to be treated, higher rates of death, that's all I have to say about that. I've done the research. This, coming from someone who pays $1000/month for premiums. You'd think I'd welcome it.

 

As for the freedom to speak of this at all...how long will that last? Truly, I mean that with all my heart, not to be a troublemaker :001_smile:.

 

So, as far as outside countries...Saudi Arabia is the only one that is remotely appealing. As far as other states mentioned: TEXAS (always wanted to move there), Alaska, Oklahoma, Montana.

 

I've been to Costa Rica. Aside from crummy roads, I didn't want to leave! (I had dental work done there...amazing medical care for much less!) They did the best job.

 

Thanks for all the great ideas.

 

Christa

 

I'd say pray, then. And fix your eyes on Jesus.....

[SFP]

Hey, when I finally get to Costa Rica, I'm going to ride a horse!

[BalanceSeeker]

I never singled you out in that post. That is an assumption that you made. I never stated anyone in particular, just a mindset in general.

 

My post was not directed towards you and I'm sorry you thought that. Definitely not my intention. :)

 

Thanks for clarifying :001_smile:

 

My wounds are still fresh, I suppose. Hubby essentially hasn't had any work for a year, nor does he see much happening in the foreseeable future. It's been up to me to bring home the bacon the same year we decided to HS. Given I have to increase hours, I have to give up HS next year (or more) to put food on the table. We've sold off possessions, majorly cut expenses, entertainment, you name it. And through all of this, we've paid every single tax dollar we owe and haven't stopped our support to the 2 organizations who help the poor. So, when I refer to over-taxing and socialism it is to the irresponsible spending, needless control & endless support for people who are happy to take from the system, but don't contribute by choice (not to be confused with those in need of temporary or legitimate welfare, which I do believe in). We all have to realize that America isn't a money tree, and it will be a baron one if we don't stop spending so much. Has nothing to do with bipartisan politics, just good, old-fashioned math :001_smile:

 

Christa

[pqr]

Thanks for clarifying :001_smile:

 

My wounds are still fresh, I suppose. Hubby essentially hasn't had any work for a year, nor does he see much happening in the foreseeable future. It's been up to me to bring home the bacon the same year we decided to HS. Given I have to increase hours, I have to give up HS next year (or more) to put food on the table. We've sold off possessions, majorly cut expenses, entertainment, you name it. And through all of this, we've paid every single tax dollar we owe and haven't stopped our support to the 2 organizations who help the poor. So, when I refer to over-taxing and socialism it is to the irresponsible spending, needless control & endless support for people who are happy to take from the system, but don't contribute by choice (not to be confused with those in need of temporary or legitimate welfare, which I do believe in). We all have to realize that America isn't a money tree, and it will be a baron one if we don't stop spending so much. Has nothing to do with bipartisan politics, just good, old-fashioned math :001_smile:

 

Christa

 

Here here, well put!

[mommyrooch]

Thanks for clarifying :001_smile:

 

My wounds are still fresh, I suppose. Hubby essentially hasn't had any work for a year, nor does he see much happening in the foreseeable future. It's been up to me to bring home the bacon the same year we decided to HS. Given I have to increase hours, I have to give up HS next year (or more) to put food on the table. We've sold off possessions, majorly cut expenses, entertainment, you name it. And through all of this, we've paid every single tax dollar we owe and haven't stopped our support to the 2 organizations who help the poor. So, when I refer to over-taxing and socialism it is to the irresponsible spending, needless control & endless support for people who are happy to take from the system, but don't contribute by choice (not to be confused with those in need of temporary or legitimate welfare, which I do believe in). We all have to realize that America isn't a money tree, and it will be a baron one if we don't stop spending so much. Has nothing to do with bipartisan politics, just good, old-fashioned math :001_smile:

 

Christa

 

:iagree:Wasteful spending is a HUGE problem. Perhaps all of us homeschooling moms should meet up on capital hill and give our leaders some lessons in " good old-fashioned math" :D

[BalanceSeeker]

:iagree:Wasteful spending is a HUGE problem. Perhaps all of us homeschooling moms should meet up on capital hill and give our leaders some lessons in " good old-fashioned math" :D

 

I'm soooooooooooo there! :D

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree:Wasteful spending is a HUGE problem. Perhaps all of us homeschooling moms should meet up on capital hill and give our leaders some lessons in " good old-fashioned math" :D

 

I completely agree that wasteful spending is a massive problem. You should see what the military is forced to pay for some common items due to pork-barrel contracts set by Congress.

[Susan in KY]

I've heard good things about Costa Rica.

 

I heard that Belize is pretty good, too, now that the rebel insurrection has subsided.:D

[mcconnellboys]

There was a list on MSN news about a week or so ago, over a weekend, I believe. It included the 10 best cities in the world in which to live. I'm not sure what sort of criteria they used, but the vast majority of the places listed were in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland....

 

Oh, and Australia and New Zealand were also in there....

[Mrs Mungo]

There was a list on MSN news about a week or so ago, over a weekend, I believe. It included the 10 best cities in the world in which to live. I'm not sure what sort of criteria they used, but the vast majority of the places listed were in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland....

 

Ah, but those are exactly the sort of places the OPer does *not* want to live. They have socialized medicine, *fantastic* roads and transportation systems and so forth. They pay *a lot* of taxes. eta: They are also *very* secular.

[stripe]

What about somewhere like Monaco.

[Jann in TX]

Last summer we had to install regular airconditioners because our geothermal system was not working--$10,000 down the drain!

 

It really only works in deep soil areas. We had too many rocks in our 'soil' and even though the engineers said it would still work--less than 5 years later our 'investment' went sour!

 

It was a cool concept though!

[LisaNY]

And Montana. I've never lived anywhere that was as conservative as here (We've lived in ID, WA, OR, AZ). The government is very hands-off also (as much as they can be with our feds).

 

 

I believe Montana is one of the states among several that are trying to protect their 10th amendment rights. I am hoping/praying that more states will follow suit.

 

For me, the USA is my beloved country, and I'm not going *anywhere*, dangit!. I still have faith in the American people to wake up and do what is right.