Want to find a country that suits MY value system more so...

[ilovemy4kids]

I don't know but if you actually find one, would you let us know? We'll join you!

 

Blessings

Sandra

[emeraldjoy]

I have to respectfully disagree with this (as well as other similar) statement. "Heated discussions" does not equate a majority view point. From my experiences here, there is a definite majority/minority situation and, of course, everything in between. I guess I just am having a hard time undestanding how anyone can claim that this board does not a republican/consertative slant???? The responses to this thread are pretty telling. As one of the minority, I have to say, I know the slant and am really okay with it. My intent is not to have a poor me sort of attitude or anything. Just wondering out loud, I suppose.

enough side tracking, sorry.

emerald

I think quite a few on this board would object to that. I've been in plenty of heated "discussions" with quite a few people of a more liberal persuassion. ;):D

:auto:

[stripe]

I have heard alot on this sight about "socialized "medicine. and I really think that Americans have been feed a lot of propaganda.

I have NEVER had any problem with the medical system in Australia. I can get to see a doctor very easily, specialists are accessible to all, and if you need to see a specialist quickly you get put in very quickly.

 

Yeah, try to make an appointment when you're sick with most HMOs -- Violent case of the flu? We can squeeze you in, in 2 weeks... Can't breathe when you lie down? Well, I have an appointment for next Friday; try not to lie down. Need to see a specialist? Well, I have a cancellation for 4 months; the next opening otherwise is in 7 months... (True stories all.)

 

I don't understand all this fear about having "bureaucrats" making medical decisions. My friends, we are already there. Call your insurance company sometime. Is that person a doctor? No! Yet they approve everything.

 

There have been several recent scandals about health insurance. I am sure there are more waiting to be revealed. Conflicts of interest, overcharging, denial of coverage for "pre existing conditions," and so on and so on.

 

Health care costs are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy in this country. And those people have insurance!

[Mrs Mungo]

Yeah, try to make an appointment when you're sick with most HMOs -- Violent case of the flu? We can squeeze you in, in 2 weeks... Can't breathe when you lie down? Well, I have an appointment for next Friday; try not to lie down. Need to see a specialist? Well, I have a cancellation for 4 months; the next opening otherwise is in 7 months... (True stories all.)

 

I don't understand all this fear about having "bureaucrats" making medical decisions. My friends, we are already there. Call your insurance company sometime. Is that person a doctor? No! Yet they approve everything.

 

There have been several recent scandals about health insurance. I am sure there are more waiting to be revealed. Conflicts of interest, overcharging, denial of coverage for "pre existing conditions," and so on and so on.

 

Exactly! And what does all that money go to pay for?

http://www.startribune.com/business/11093081.html

[BalanceSeeker]

Demo/Repub/Minority/Majority................we put labels on people like they are stuffed into some category and then a line is drawn in the sand. And we put a lot of faith in polls stating that one side is winning over the other like it's a contest. I truly believe most people have the same core beliefs that represent the American dream (MOST, not all). I don't necessarily vote Republican if I don't believe in the issues that candidate stands for. Same with Democrat. I've voted democrat before based on the issues I care about. As a conservative thinker, I feel I'm in the minority because it isn't popular (media) to be a conservative anymore.

 

Life. Liberty. The pursuit of happiness. That's the American dream. :001_smile: I truly believe it's what people want in their heart of hearts. Not enslavement to the government. How we get there is the question. I think there's a balance that we desperately need to find between personally responsibility and govt involvement.

 

No more comments from me. I need to get back to life, but I've said my peace and then some :D.

 

Blessings to all of you ~

 

Christa

Edited May 21, 2009 by BalanceSeeker

[Margaret in GA]

Yeah, try to make an appointment when you're sick with most HMOs -- Violent case of the flu? We can squeeze you in, in 2 weeks... Can't breathe when you lie down? Well, I have an appointment for next Friday; try not to lie down. Need to see a specialist? Well, I have a cancellation for 4 months; the next opening otherwise is in 7 months... (True stories all.)

 

I don't understand all this fear about having "bureaucrats" making medical decisions. My friends, we are already there. Call your insurance company sometime. Is that person a doctor? No! Yet they approve everything.

 

There have been several recent scandals about health insurance. I am sure there are more waiting to be revealed. Conflicts of interest, overcharging, denial of coverage for "pre existing conditions," and so on and so on.

 

Health care costs are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy in this country. And those people have insurance!

 

Truer words have never been spoken! The fact is, it isn't Left vs. Right it's us vs. Corporate America. If you didn't believe it before, you must see now that we've given them that trillion dollars upon which Bill is so fixated.

 

I've mentioned this before on this board, but we were without insurance for 3 months last year and *had no idea*... my husband's secretary didn't pay it. We never even got a notice from BC/BS. I am so thankful that nothing bad happened in the meantime. That's crazy to pay what must be hundreds of thousands of dollars into a system over our 20 or so years of paying for insurance and then your secretary makes a mistake and BAM! You're bankrupt! Clever the way insurance companies play into fears like waiting lists when you should be *very afraid* of what you already have.

 

Margaret

[Spy Car]

Truer words have never been spoken! The fact is, it isn't Left vs. Right it's us vs. Corporate America. If you didn't believe it before, you must see now that we've given them that trillion dollars upon which Bill is so fixated.

 

I've mentioned this before on this board, but we were without insurance for 3 months last year and *had no idea*... my husband's secretary didn't pay it. We never even got a notice from BC/BS. I am so thankful that nothing bad happened in the meantime. That's crazy to pay what must be hundreds of thousands of dollars into a system over our 20 or so years of paying for insurance and then your secretary makes a mistake and BAM! You're bankrupt! Clever the way insurance companies play into fears like waiting lists when you should be *very afraid* of what you already have.

 

Margaret

 

And what about people who have "pre-existing conditions" and then lose their jobs and their insurance. And are doomed. Because they can't get a personal plan, at least not at a cost most people could afford. The insecurity and irrationality of our heath system is mind-boggling.

 

Bill

[Rosie_0801]

I agree with this. I'm a moderate Democrat but I come across as far-left on this board. It actually cracks me up because as a Christian, homeschooling military wife I am considered somewhat Conservative and right-leaning on the other board I'm on.

 

Hehehe. You lot (no one in particular) have been calling us Aussies socialist! Can't speak for the others, but I'm no socialist by my own definition. Cracks me up.

 

:lol:

Rosie

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Quote by Stripe Yeah, try to make an appointment when you're sick with most HMOs -- Violent case of the flu? We can squeeze you in, in 2 weeks... Can't breathe when you lie down? Well, I have an appointment for next Friday; try not to lie down. Need to see a specialist? Well, I have a cancellation for 4 months; the next opening otherwise is in 7 months... (True stories all.)

 

I don't understand all this fear about having "bureaucrats" making medical decisions. My friends, we are already there. Call your insurance company sometime. Is that person a doctor? No! Yet they approve everything.

 

There have been several recent scandals about health insurance. I am sure there are more waiting to be revealed. Conflicts of interest, overcharging, denial of coverage for "pre existing conditions," and so on and so on.

 

Health care costs are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy in this country. And those people have insurance!

 

I whole-heartedly agree:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I also think that if you care about healthcare, then now is the time to call your senators and representatives:) It is the American way after all to voice our opinions:)

Edited May 21, 2009 by priscilla
additional thought

[mommyrooch]

Yeah, try to make an appointment when you're sick with most HMOs -- Violent case of the flu? We can squeeze you in, in 2 weeks... Can't breathe when you lie down? Well, I have an appointment for next Friday; try not to lie down. Need to see a specialist? Well, I have a cancellation for 4 months; the next opening otherwise is in 7 months... (True stories all.)

 

I don't understand all this fear about having "bureaucrats" making medical decisions. My friends, we are already there. Call your insurance company sometime. Is that person a doctor? No! Yet they approve everything.

 

There have been several recent scandals about health insurance. I am sure there are more waiting to be revealed. Conflicts of interest, overcharging, denial of coverage for "pre existing conditions," and so on and so on.

 

Health care costs are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy in this country. And those people have insurance!

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:I guess I should also jump out on a limb and admit that I'm right there with Mrs. Mungo. I too am a Christian Democrat and by the slant of this thread it does seem that I'm in the minority group too. Emeraldjoy, Mrs. Mungo and any others out there. You guys are not alone! :grouphug:

 

By the way, I would also be in that 52% supporting Obama right now. :001_smile: Please, no shooting the messenger. :D

[keptwoman]

That's the most hopeful thing I've heard in a long while. I don't bother with american news anymore and sometimes this board is one of my few exposures to current american thought. Good to be reminded it's a rather minority representation. :D

Ditto.

[keptwoman]

Hehehe. You lot (no one in particular) have been calling us Aussies socialist! Can't speak for the others, but I'm no socialist by my own definition. Cracks me up.

 

:lol:

Rosie

I'm often amused by that too Rosie. In fact I was talking about it with a friend yesterday. I'm fairly right in my political opinions. But if being socialist means that we care about the fate of those worse off than us and want them to have the same health care as us and money to live on... well them I'm VERY proud to be considered socialist.

[mommyrooch]

And what about people who have "pre-existing conditions" and then lose their jobs and their insurance. And are doomed. Because they can't get a personal plan, at least not at a cost most people could afford. The insecurity and irrationality of our heath system is mind-boggling.

 

Bill

 

Bill, I am one of those families. Our family lives in fear of this nightmare everyday. My son is a Leukemia survivor so needless to say, HUGE pre-existing condition. He is covered under my husbands group plan because he was on it before he was diagnosed but if for ANY reason that coverage should lapse my son will be un-insurable. He is grandfatherd in as long as he stays on a group plan but if he ever falls off of a group plan we a SOL. He can also never be insured under a private plan because of the Leukemia diagnosis. Needless to say, We live ours lives in fear everyday.

 

And let's talk about our current system crushing our American dream. My husband has wanted to start his own business for years but that is simply not an option for us. We couldn't get our son on a private plan, even if by some miracle we could afford it. Insurance companies and our healthcare system have taken this dream away from us because we have to do what's best for our son. Can you imagine HOW much I support Obama's new plan that would make coverage available regardless of pre-existing conditions? Perhaps then WE could have a chance at our American dream.

 

And don't think that we're one of those families that use the system. My husband has two college degrees. One in Computer Science, the other in Math. He has worked full time since he got out of college. Never ONCE being unemployed. But we are in that middle class group that fell through the cracks. We made too much money to get any help but not near enough to pay the thousands upon thousands of dollars in medical bills. We have owed upwards of $100,000 out of pocket over the course of my sons illness and we have insurance with BCBS! How absolutely insane is this? :banghead:

 

And we are not alone. During our cancer journey I have met MANY families that have lost everything trying to save their child's life. So much for the American dream for these families. They also worked hard their whole lives and deserved their hard earned money just as much as the next guy but because of 4 devasting words (we're sorry, it's cancer) their lives were ripped apart.

 

And let's not forget how it tears a family apart emotionally not only having to worry about trying to save their child but also having to worry about how the heck they are going to pay for it. It's insane! We lived our lives in fear of questions like, "how are we going to get his Methotraxate this month. If we don't get it he'll relapse! What can we sell? We have to get him his medicine!" And this is with insurance! I don't think the average American has a clue as to what this kind of thing really does to familes. It destroys them. Hard working families crushed but the system. So sad. :crying:

 

All this taking place in probably the richest country in the world. How in the world can others not see the tragedy in this? :confused:

 

I've met many Leukemia families across the globe during our journey and not one of them with socialized medicine could be paid enough money to live here in the US because of fear of losing everything because of having a sick child. My friends in Canada have nothing but rave for their experiences during their medical Leukemia journeys. I have nothing but nightmares and ulcers. ;)

 

Anyway, I'll quit now. I just wish others could walk in my shoes just for 1 year. Perhaps then they would truly understand the urgent need for some form of universal healthcare that cannot be denied to ANYONE!

 

You just don't know until it happens to you but I wouldn't wish this road on anyone. :)

[Spy Car]

All this taking place in probably the richest country in the world. How in the world can others not see the tragedy in this? :confused:

 

 

:grouphug:

[BalanceSeeker]

Mommyrooch,

 

This is so not right :grouphug: Healthcare reform is sorely needed in some capacity. We, too, have pre-existings and have self-pay insurance. It hasn't been easy, to say the least.

 

 

Bill, I am one of those families. Our family lives in fear of this nightmare everyday. My son is a Leukemia survivor so needless to say, HUGE pre-existing condition. He is covered under my husbands group plan because he was on it before he was diagnosed but if for ANY reason that coverage should lapse my son will be un-insurable. He is grandfatherd in as long as he stays on a group plan but if he ever falls off of a group plan we a SOL. He can also never be insured under a private plan because of the Leukemia diagnosis. Needless to say, We live ours lives in fear everyday.

 

And let's talk about our current system crushing our American dream. My husband has wanted to start his own business for years but that is simply not an option for us. We couldn't get our son on a private plan, even if by some miracle we could afford it. Insurance companies and our healthcare system have taken this dream away from us because we have to do what's best for our son. Can you imagine HOW much I support Obama's new plan that would make coverage available regardless of pre-existing conditions? Perhaps then WE could have a chance at our American dream.

 

And don't think that we're one of those families that use the system. My husband has two college degrees. One in Computer Science, the other in Math. He has worked full time since he got out of college. Never ONCE being unemployed. But we are in that middle class group that fell through the cracks. We made too much money to get any help but not near enough to pay the thousands upon thousands of dollars in medical bills. We have owed upwards of $100,000 out of pocket over the course of my sons illness and we have insurance with BCBS! How absolutely insane is this? :banghead:

 

And we are not alone. During our cancer journey I have met MANY families that have lost everything trying to save their child's life. So much for the American dream for these families. They also worked hard their whole lives and deserved their hard earned money just as much as the next guy but because of 4 devasting words (we're sorry, it's cancer) their lives were ripped apart.

 

And let's not forget how it tears a family apart emotionally not only having to worry about trying to save their child but also having to worry about how the heck they are going to pay for it. It's insane! We lived our lives in fear of questions like, "how are we going to get his Methotraxate this month. If we don't get it he'll relapse! What can we sell? We have to get him his medicine!" And this is with insurance! I don't think the average American has a clue as to what this kind of thing really does to familes. It destroys them. Hard working families crushed but the system. So sad. :crying:

 

All this taking place in probably the richest country in the world. How in the world can others not see the tragedy in this? :confused:

 

I've met many Leukemia families across the globe during our journey and not one of them with socialized medicine could be paid enough money to live here in the US because of fear of losing everything because of having a sick child. My friends in Canada have nothing but rave for their experiences during their medical Leukemia journeys. I have nothing but nightmares and ulcers. ;)

 

Anyway, I'll quit now. I just wish others could walk in my shoes just for 1 year. Perhaps then they would truly understand the urgent need for some form of universal healthcare that cannot be denied to ANYONE!

 

You just don't know until it happens to you but I wouldn't wish this road on anyone. :)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

by Mommyrooch All this taking place in probably the richest country in the world. How in the world can others not see the tragedy in this? :confused:

 

:grouphug:

 

Again, I think now is the time for everyone to call to your senators and representatives in Congress if you care about universal health care once and for all:) There are powerful, vested interests (health insurance companies, etc.) that are trying to fight single-payer public health insurance right now:angelsad2:

The phone number is:

Senate Switchboard

(202) 224-3121

Edited May 22, 2009 by priscilla
spelling

[Greta]

Anyway, I'll quit now. I just wish others could walk in my shoes just for 1 year. Perhaps then they would truly understand the urgent need for some form of universal healthcare that cannot be denied to ANYONE!

 

You just don't know until it happens to you but I wouldn't wish this road on anyone. :)

 

My heart goes out to you, and everyone in your situation. So far, knock on wood, my dh, dd, and I have been blessed with good health. We pay over $12,000 per year for our employer-subsidized health insurance, and they weasel their way out of paying for everything they can that is above and beyond an office visit (for which, of course we have a co-pay!), including routine blood tests, my care when I had pneumonia, etc.. We very firmly believe that if we were ever faced with a tragedy like a chronic illness, expensive surgery, etc. we would be screwed. I would MUCH RATHER be paying that $12K in taxes, paying into a system of universal health care which my family could rely on, and which would be helping families like yours, rather than spending it to make these insurance companies rich. I believe that in a civilized society, everyone, regardless of ability to pay, is equally entitled to police protection. And I don't see any reason that health care should be viewed any differently.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

By GretaLynn My heart goes out to you, and everyone in your situation. So far, knock on wood, my dh, dd, and I have been blessed with good health. We pay over $12,000 per year for our employer-subsidized health insurance, and they weasel their way out of paying for everything they can that is above and beyond an office visit (for which, of course we have a co-pay!), including routine blood tests, my care when I had pneumonia, etc.. We very firmly believe that if we were ever faced with a tragedy like a chronic illness, expensive surgery, etc. we would be screwed. I would MUCH RATHER be paying that $12K in taxes, paying into a system of universal health care which my family could rely on, and which would be helping families like yours, rather than spending it to make these insurance companies rich. I believe that in a civilized society, everyone, regardless of ability to pay, is equally entitled to police protection. And I don't see any reason that health care should be viewed any differently.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:I cannot tell you how many times health insurance companies have denied payment for legitimate claims in our family. I truly believe they do it on purpose for profits. I thank god that I am an RN which gives me an advantage in fighting these appeals. However, I was not always successful:glare: America needs universal health care now.

 

Just my 2 cents:)

[BalanceSeeker]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:I cannot tell you how many times health insurance companies have denied payment for legitimate claims in our family. I truly believe they do it on purpose for profits. I thank god that I am an RN which gives me an advantage in fighting these appeals. However, I was not always successful:glare: America needs universal health care now.

 

Just my 2 cents:)

 

I think you all are changing my mind on universal healthcare (where's the icon for eating crow?)

 

It would be a relief for so many just to have guaranteed coverage (even factoring in longer wait times for treatment). I agree it's better than anyone going bankrupt or not having coverage at all. Not ideal, but no scenario is, I suppose.

 

The math STILL has to work, though. And that means cutting out the PORK that they are so used to sneaking in behind our backs. This is what the people are so tired of. That way, Americans can actually benefit from the system they are paying into, rather than "the system" failing them......

[stripe]

I was reading about the history of healthcare, that there was a movement in the 70s that almost became law, to guarantee that no one would have to pay more than (the equivalent of $10,000 in today's $). In other words, you wouldn't be in so deep you'd never be able to get out. Routine stuff, you'd have to take care of (either some other insurance plan or out of pocket), but big costs, the government had your back, so to speak. But the Watergate scandal broke and it all fell by the wayside. Too bad -- that would be a huge help to so many people. The author (wish I could remember where I got this) thought Americans were too fixated on small costs (like prescription drug coverage) while the big ones were never even discussed. Catastrophic coverage shouldn't just be for the elderly. The rest of us are important too.

[Mrs Mungo]

I truly believe they do it on purpose for profits.

 

*cough* did I mention? http://www.startribune.com/business/11093081.html

The year this guy received these bonuses? One out of every $700 Americans spent on health care went to him.

 

Government guaranteed insurance will be a God-send for so many people. Just to clarify-Obama wants to make sure everyone can have access to insurance, people will still pay into an insurance plan, it's not the same as universal health care.

[BalanceSeeker]

 

Government guaranteed insurance will be a God-send for so many people. Just to clarify-Obama wants to make sure everyone can have access to insurance, people will still pay into an insurance plan, it's not the same as universal health care.

 

What is the difference between them?

[Kay in Cal]

Yes. I do love the boards (hey, been here a whole lotta years), but they've always been far more conservative than "average", and certainly far more than me. Now, I'll admit I'm liberal and live in a blue state, but these boards are definately not representative of the mainstream on the whole. Which isn't a totally bad thing--I mean, we homeschool, right?

 

I lived in a truly socialist country for several years (Norway) and it was AWESOME! I still have friends there, one couple visited recently, and they think it's awesome too. "Ja, vi elsker dette landet..." I'd live there again in a drop dead minute--yeah, it's expensive and has high taxes--but very safe, clean, beautiful, friendly, liberal, and very family oriented. Unfortunately, my dh isn't really interested in living outside the US.

[Mrs Mungo]

What is the difference between them?

 

Universal health care I think of European countries like Germany where health care is completely socialized. It was sort of funny when we lived there because there were *tons* of situations where we thought "oh, they'd never let you do this in the US because of the liability issue" but because they have universal health care nobody could sue for medical care, it's all paid for by the government.

 

Instead, what Obama is wanting to do is offer a government insurance plan. You won't have to get the government insurance, you can keep the insurance you have but if you don't have insurance or can't get insurance you will now have another option. Right now, the US government covers about 1/4 of Americans whether through Medicare, Tricare (which is the military insurance) or whatever.

[stripe]

I read an article written by a woman who'd lived in New Zealand, and she said car insurance was so much cheaper (no health coverage add in). And how many times must one be asked if it is a work related injury when visiting the ER? All these layers of complexity are just assumed to be normal, and complicate things (not to mention all the work for the employees of the doctors' offices). It's quite a mess, if you ask me.

[BalanceSeeker]

 

This just about sums it up.

 

ETA: my quoting feature has failed me. oops.

[mommyrooch]

What is the difference between them?

 

I'm not Mrs. Mungo but I'll try to answer this.

 

Under Obama's plan all American's that currently have health insurance can keep it if they choose. Nothing would change for them unless they wanted it to.

 

The only thing different that he is offering is a government plan that ALL Americans can have access to if they so choose. It will be the same insurance plan that all federal employees are offered. Including Obama. Americans do NOT have to have it. They can keep their current plans if they choose. It will just be available to families like mine with cancer diagnosis, financial hardships etc. Should we ever NEED it, it will be available regardless of inability to pay, pre-existing conditions etc. Any American can sign up for the new plan if they want to but they don't have to. It is just an option that will be available to ANYONE and EVERYONE! :hurray: In my opinion something like this is sooooo LONG overdue!

 

Universal healthcare is a heathcare plan that is ran by the government and that all citizens have. It just a umbrella type plan that covers all it's citizens regardless of income etc. There are no private plans in place in a universal healthcare system. All citizens have the same government provided insurance.

 

Americas would still have private insurance plans available if wanted. It's just that private insurance wouldn't be the ONLY (often unobtainable) option.

[BalanceSeeker]

I'm not Mrs. Mungo but I'll try to answer this.

 

Under Obama's plan all American's that currently have health insurance can keep it if they choose. Nothing would change for them unless they wanted it to.

 

The only thing different that he is offering is a government plan that ALL Americans can have access to if they so choose. It will be the same insurance plan that all federal employees are offered. Including Obama. Americans do NOT have to have it. They can keep their current plans if they choose. It will just be available to families like mine with cancer diagnosis, financial hardships etc. Should we ever NEED it, it will be available regardless of inability to pay, pre-existing conditions etc. Any American can sign up for the new plan if they want to but they don't have to. It is just an option that will be available to ANYONE and EVERYONE! :hurray: In my opinion something like this is sooooo LONG overdue!

 

Universal healthcare is a heathcare plan that is ran by the government and that all citizens have. It just a umbrella type plan that covers all it's citizens regardless of income etc. There are no private plans in place in a universal healthcare system. All citizens have the same government provided insurance.

 

Americas would still have private insurance plans available if wanted. It's just that private insurance wouldn't be the ONLY (often unobtainable) option.

 

This would be a dream come true. We can hope.

[Audrey]

I think you all are changing my mind on universal healthcare (where's the icon for eating crow?)

 

It would be a relief for so many just to have guaranteed coverage (even factoring in longer wait times for treatment). I agree it's better than anyone going bankrupt or not having coverage at all. Not ideal, but no scenario is, I suppose.

 

The math STILL has to work, though. And that means cutting out the PORK that they are so used to sneaking in behind our backs. This is what the people are so tired of. That way, Americans can actually benefit from the system they are paying into, rather than "the system" failing them......

 

 

You're right. The math does still need to work. I do wish americans would quit point a finger at every other healthcare system and saying it won't work in the US. Of course another country's system isn't going to work in the US. The US needs to come up with its own system that will work for it, just like every other system had to come up with its own unique solution to the problem.

[Rosie_0801]

One benefit of our system is you can see whichever doctor (general practitioner) you like regardless of the insurance you do or don't have. I've read on here about people no longer being able to see their family doctor because of insurance changes, or something like that? Not an issue here.

 

Rosie

[Spy Car]

You're right. The math does still need to work. I do wish americans would quit point a finger at every other healthcare system and saying it won't work in the US. Of course another country's system isn't going to work in the US. The US needs to come up with its own system that will work for it, just like every other system had to come up with its own unique solution to the problem.

 

Oh yea, well if you think your health care is so great how come life expectancy in Canada is only 80.34 while here in the good old USA it's a whopping...what? did anyone check double-check the numbers? 78.06?

 

Never mind.

 

At least we beat Australia :D

 

Oh, we didn't.

 

New Zealand? No.

 

South Korea? No.

 

Greece? No.

 

Bosnia-Herzegovina? No.

 

Jordan? Not quite.

 

Haiti? We must be ahead of Haiti, please tell me we are ahead of Haiti?

 

Yes!

 

Yes? Yes!!! Woo hoo

 

:party: U.S.A. U.S.A. U.S.A.

[Dirtroad]

HOW conservative are with regard to constitutional interpretation? Do you believe the Constitution is a living document or should it have remained unchanged since it was written?

 

Yep, early Americans had to pay a fine if they didn't go to church. They could even be thrown in jail for it.

 

Each Colony was different. Not all were of the Puritan mindset or legalisms. Why do you think Rhode Island is called Rogue Island in some texts! :) Geogia was debtors.... all different stories.

 

Regardless of who began the mission (it always takes money & those who will take the risks)... the folks who can in DROVES wanted opportunity, freedom, adventure, hope, and the chance at prospertiy, peace & freedom of conscience/relegion. In England... you stayed in your place & it was almost impossible to move through the social structure. James believed only God had authority over him & he claimed the Divine Right of Kings (Eliz also but she was less of a tyrant than James). Huegenots sought freedom also.... Quakers too.

 

LIVING (to me) implies it isn't useful as it was written. It is always changing. What good is the original then? No, I believe in it as it was written. Man is the same today as he was then..... selfish, greedy, aggressive, eager, and good traits too..... the character hasn't changed.... just some of the technology & situations to which it all applies! I don't know of many conservatives who believe it is Living... that usually falls under the Liberal banner.

[Barb_]

Bill, I am one of those families...You just don't know until it happens to you but I wouldn't wish this road on anyone. :)

 

I am so, so sorry. Thank you for sharing your story and putting a human face on the situation. I hope you opened some eyes and hearts this evening.

 

Barb

[mommyrooch]

Oh yea, well if you think your health care is so great how come life expectancy in Canada is only 80.34 while here in the good old USA it's a whopping...what? did anyone check double-check the numbers? 78.06?

 

Never mind.

 

At least we beat Australia :D

 

Oh, we didn't.

 

New Zealand? No.

 

South Korea? No.

 

Greece? No.

 

Bosnia-Herzegovina? No.

 

Jordan? Not quite.

 

Haiti? We must be ahead of Haiti, please tell me we are ahead of Haiti?

 

Yes!

 

Yes? Yes!!! Woo hoo

 

:party: U.S.A. U.S.A. U.S.A.

 

Oohh! Bill, I tell you, I'm loving you more and more everyday! :001_wub:

 

While we're talking about life expectency why don't we throw in another like the number of infant mortality deaths. Because, I mean, it's delivering babies?

 

Lets see, surely we must have a higher survival rate for infant births. No one could possible deliver babies better than us. After all, we're America! I mean our infant mortality rate is ONLY 6.4%

 

Let's see, surely we beat

Canada? Nope - 4.6%

How about France? Nope - 4.2%

Australia? Nope - 4.6%

Austria? Nope - 4.5%

Czech Republic? Nope - 3.9%

Denmark? No - 4.5%

Finland? No - 3.5%

France? No - 4.2

Germany? No - 4.1%

Greece? No - 5.3%

Ireland? No - 5.2%

Italy? No - 5.7%

Japan? No - 3.2%

South Korea? No - 6.1%

New Zealand? No - 5.7%

Norway? No - 3.6%

Portugal? No - 4.9%

Spain? No - 4.3%

Switzerland? No - 4.3%

 

And the winner of all studied countries is.... drum roll please ......

 

SWEDEN! At a VERY low 2.8%

 

But wait, surely we beat Israel. Please, PLEASE tell me we beat Israel.

 

Yes! Yes! Yes! We do! :hurray: Israel's 6.8% to our 6.4%

 

:party:U.S.A! U.S.A!

 

Oh, but wait, CRAP! Their life expectency is 7.9% to our 78%. Just when I thought our stats looked sooooo good.

 

:willy_nilly: :banghead: :cursing:

 

 

 

P.S. The stats of this study were the percentage of infant deaths per 1000 births.

[Ibbygirl]

Bill, I am one of those families. Our family lives in fear of this nightmare everyday. My son is a Leukemia survivor so needless to say, HUGE pre-existing condition. He is covered under my husbands group plan because he was on it before he was diagnosed but if for ANY reason that coverage should lapse my son will be un-insurable. He is grandfatherd in as long as he stays on a group plan but if he ever falls off of a group plan we a SOL. He can also never be insured under a private plan because of the Leukemia diagnosis. Needless to say, We live ours lives in fear everyday.

 

And let's talk about our current system crushing our American dream. My husband has wanted to start his own business for years but that is simply not an option for us. We couldn't get our son on a private plan, even if by some miracle we could afford it. Insurance companies and our healthcare system have taken this dream away from us because we have to do what's best for our son. Can you imagine HOW much I support Obama's new plan that would make coverage available regardless of pre-existing conditions? Perhaps then WE could have a chance at our American dream.

 

And don't think that we're one of those families that use the system. My husband has two college degrees. One in Computer Science, the other in Math. He has worked full time since he got out of college. Never ONCE being unemployed. But we are in that middle class group that fell through the cracks. We made too much money to get any help but not near enough to pay the thousands upon thousands of dollars in medical bills. We have owed upwards of $100,000 out of pocket over the course of my sons illness and we have insurance with BCBS! How absolutely insane is this? :banghead:

 

And we are not alone. During our cancer journey I have met MANY families that have lost everything trying to save their child's life. So much for the American dream for these families. They also worked hard their whole lives and deserved their hard earned money just as much as the next guy but because of 4 devasting words (we're sorry, it's cancer) their lives were ripped apart.

 

And let's not forget how it tears a family apart emotionally not only having to worry about trying to save their child but also having to worry about how the heck they are going to pay for it. It's insane! We lived our lives in fear of questions like, "how are we going to get his Methotraxate this month. If we don't get it he'll relapse! What can we sell? We have to get him his medicine!" And this is with insurance! I don't think the average American has a clue as to what this kind of thing really does to familes. It destroys them. Hard working families crushed but the system. So sad. :crying:

 

All this taking place in probably the richest country in the world. How in the world can others not see the tragedy in this? :confused:

 

I've met many Leukemia families across the globe during our journey and not one of them with socialized medicine could be paid enough money to live here in the US because of fear of losing everything because of having a sick child. My friends in Canada have nothing but rave for their experiences during their medical Leukemia journeys. I have nothing but nightmares and ulcers.

 

Anyway, I'll quit now. I just wish others could walk in my shoes just for 1 year. Perhaps then they would truly understand the urgent need for some form of universal healthcare that cannot be denied to ANYONE!

 

You just don't know until it happens to you but I wouldn't wish this road on anyone.

 

I just want to give you lots of :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: There is

 

nothing worse in the world that having a sick child. What you are going through is so wrong! :( My son has severe Autism and the only therapy he gets is what he gets in school, why? because we cannot afford the co-pay for the speech and occupational therapy that he needs 3 times a week through our insurance. He used to be on a government grant called Therapy for Sucess since all studies show that the best hope for an Autistic person is to get them treatment early on. Therapy for sucess only would cover one type of therapy so we had to choose between speech or ot. There also was only ONE provider that accepted this grant that we could go to in our entire county. We chose the OT since he has so many sensory issues. They allowed us 2 half hour sessions a week. I had to reapply for the grant EVERY month and sometimes they didn't approve it right away so there would be a gap in the treatment. After not even a year on this grant program the goverment did away with it altogether. My son has not had ANY outside therapy since. The only therapy he gets at all is in his autism cluster in his public school.

[emeraldjoy]

Love it.

Oh yea, well if you think your health care is so great how come life expectancy in Canada is only 80.34 while here in the good old USA it's a whopping...what? did anyone check double-check the numbers? 78.06?

 

Never mind.

 

At least we beat Australia :D

 

Oh, we didn't.

 

New Zealand? No.

 

South Korea? No.

 

Greece? No.

 

Bosnia-Herzegovina? No.

 

Jordan? Not quite.

 

Haiti? We must be ahead of Haiti, please tell me we are ahead of Haiti?

 

Yes!

 

Yes? Yes!!! Woo hoo

 

:party: U.S.A. U.S.A. U.S.A.

[Barb_]

If anyone is interested in sharing a story or offering support, here is a link sans commentary by me: Organizing for Healthcare

 

Barb

[mommyrooch]

I just want to give you lots of :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: There is

 

nothing worse in the world that having a sick child. What you are going through is so wrong! :( My son has severe Autism and the only therapy he gets is what he gets in school, why? because we cannot afford the co-pay for the speech and occupational therapy that he needs 3 times a week through our insurance. He used to be on a government grant called Therapy for Sucess since all studies show that the best hope for an Autistic person is to get them treatment early on. Therapy for sucess only would cover one type of therapy so we had to choose between speech or ot. There also was only ONE provider that accepted this grant that we could go to in our entire county. We chose the OT since he has so many sensory issues. They allowed us 2 half hour sessions a week. I had to reapply for the grant EVERY month and sometimes they didn't approve it right away so there would be a gap in the treatment. After not even a year on this grant program the goverment did away with it altogether. My son has not had ANY outside therapy since. The only therapy he gets at all is in his autism cluster in his public school.

 

:grouphug: right back at ya! And what's sad is that our stories are not uncommon. They're just not what people want to hear so you don't hear much about them on CNN.

 

Crimes against humanity happen in our country everyday.

 

And I consider OUR family one of the lucky ones. Thank God my husband hasn't lost his job yet. He came very close just 2 weeks ago. His company has let go 2700 employees in the last 4 months and his department was cut by 60%. Imagine a bullet literally flying by your head. That's how we felt.

 

I have also known families in situations that make the most horrific movie look tame.

 

Imagine working your whole life for your family then having a child diagnosed with cancer. Next, you lose your job and your insurance with it. Can't get insurance because of a "pre-existing" condition and can't afford COBRA. COBRA is a current joke of an insurance option offered to families with pre-existing conditions who have lost coverage. You are only allowed to carry it for 18 months and the cost for said coverage is approx. $1800 a month. Paying that much simply isn't possible for most families. The standard chemotherapy protocol for Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia is 3 years. You do the math.

 

So, now your jobless, uninsured and your child is fighting for their life. You take out a 2nd mortgage (if your lucky enough to have a 1st) then a 3rd. Finally, you lose your home, sell off any assets you might have and you lose your car, which by the way was how you got you child to the hospital. That adds a new problem. Because of all of this you've also lost your sence of being a worthy man that can take care of his family.

 

Now the kicker, your son relapses. Doctor tells you that he/she will need a bone marrow transplant to save their life. You file chapter 7 and you give up everything you have or could ever hope of having, including possibly your soul, and it's still not enough. You just can't get the transplant for your child. Your only option is to try experimental therapies that could have side effects ranging from secondary infectious deaths, severe cognitive damage or, they just might not work at all.

 

You get your kid the experimental therapy all the while still having the crap beat our of you by the system. Sadly though, it's just not enough. Your child dies.

 

Now here's the happy part. You are planning on putting your baby in the ground while still oweing 100's upon 100's of thousands of dollars for the pleasure. You child isn't alive anymore but you still gotta pay those bills and a second bankruptcy isn't an option because you already took out the first trying to save your kid.

 

To top it all off, you have to live with the guilt of knowing that you just couldn't do enough to save them. "What if I hadn't lost my job?" What if we were richer?" "What if I had tried harder?" "Looked further?" Even though there was nowhere else look. You actually believe that it's YOUR fault that you're planning your babies funeral.

 

Try living with that for the rest of your life! And again, still paying those astronomical bills for the pleasure. Kinda makes you understand why some resort to suicide.

 

And if you guys think I'm being dramatic, HA! Think again. These are the families that I spoke of that lost EVERYTHING. And when I say EVERYTHING I mean much more than monetary possesions. This happens everyday! :crying:

Yep, good lives ripped apart by our current system.

 

Now you know why I consider OUR family one of the lucky ones. :sad:

 

Like I said, crimes against humanity. The average American just doesn't know. I've used Leukemia as an example because that's what I know but do you realize how many people are diagnosed with all kinds of diseases everyday. The numbers would blow your minds. And statistically, most of these people are in that middle class group that falls through the cracks because most Americans, diseases or not, are in the middle class financial bracket.

 

Now, who here still thinks that some form of a healthcare plan that's available to EVERYONE isn't long overdue in the good ole U.S.A? Or do we just stand by and do nothing because after all, "it's not my problem." Or how about, "it will never happen to me."

 

Maybe if those that believe this way keep telling themselves that then they will be able to sleep better at night.

 

As for me and mine, "spread the weath" and bring on the higher taxes so maybe we can start offering these families guaranteed healthcare!

[Ibbygirl]

:grouphug: right back at ya! And what's sad is that our stories are not uncommon. They're just not what people want to hear so you don't hear much about them on CNN.

 

Crimes against humanity happen in our country everyday.

 

And I consider OUR family one of the lucky ones. Thank God my husband hasn't lost his job yet. He came very close just 2 weeks ago. His company has let go 2700 employees in the last 4 months and his department was cut by 60%. Imagine a bullet literally flying by your head. That's how we felt.

 

I have also known families in situations that make the most horrific movie look tame.

 

Imagine working your whole life for your family then having a child diagnosed with cancer. Next, you lose your job and your insurance with it. Can't get insurance because of a "pre-existing" condition and can't afford COBRA. COBRA is a current joke of an insurance option offered to families with pre-existing conditions who have lost coverage. You are only allowed to carry it for 18 months and the cost for said coverage is approx. $1800 a month. Paying that much simply isn't possible for most families. The standard chemotherapy protocol for Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia is 3 years. You do the math.

 

So, now your jobless, uninsured and your child is fighting for their life. You take out a 2nd mortgage (if your lucky enough to have a 1st) then a 3rd. Finally, you lose your home, sell off any assets you might have and you lose your car, which by the way was how you got you child to the hospital. That adds a new problem. Because of all of this you've also lost your sence of being a worthy man that can take care of his family.

 

Now the kicker, your son relapses. Doctor tells you that he/she will need a bone marrow transplant to save their life. You file chapter 7 and you give up everything you have or could ever hope of having, including possibly your soul, and it's still not enough. You just can't get the transplant for your child. Your only option is to try experimental therapies that could have side effects ranging from secondary infectious deaths, severe cognitive damage or, they just might not work at all.

 

You get your kid the experimental therapy all the while still having the crap beat our of you by the system. Sadly though, it's just not enough. Your child dies.

 

Now here's the happy part. You are planning on putting your baby in the ground while still oweing 100's upon 100's of thousands of dollars for the pleasure. You child isn't alive anymore but you still gotta pay those bills and a second bankruptcy isn't an option because you already took out the first trying to save your kid.

 

To top it all off, you have to live with the guilt of knowing that you just couldn't do enough to save them. "What if I hadn't lost my job?" What if we were richer?" "What if I had tried harder?" "Looked further?" Even though there was nowhere else look. You actually believe that it's YOUR fault that you're planning your babies funeral.

 

Try living with that for the rest of your life! And again, still paying those astronomical bills for the pleasure. Kinda makes you understand why some resort to suicide.

 

And if you guys think I'm being dramatic, HA! Think again. These are the families that I spoke of that lost EVERYTHING. And when I say EVERYTHING I mean much more than monetary possesions. This happens everyday! :crying:

Yep, good lives ripped apart by our current system.

 

Now you know why I consider OUR family one of the lucky ones. :sad:

 

Like I said, crimes against humanity. The average American just doesn't know. I've used Leukemia as an example because that's what I know but do you realize how many people are diagnosed with all kinds of diseases everyday. The numbers would blow your minds. And statistically, most of these people are in that middle class group that falls through the cracks because most Americans, diseases or not, are in the middle class financial bracket.

 

Now, who here still thinks that some form of a healthcare plan that's available to EVERYONE isn't long overdue in the good ole U.S.A? Or do we just stand by and do nothing because after all, "it's not my problem." Or how about, "it will never happen to me."

 

Maybe if those that believe this way keep telling themselves that then they will be able to sleep better at night.

 

As for me and mine, "spread the weath" and bring on the higher taxes so maybe we can start offering these families guaranteed healthcare!

 

 

I have no words... just... no words!! It is shocking that this type of thing goes on. Shocking!

[Mrs Mungo]

Each Colony was different. Not all were of the Puritan mindset or legalisms. Why do you think Rhode Island is called Rogue Island in some texts! :) Geogia was debtors.... all different stories.

 

You mentioned the earliest settlers, I was speaking of the earliest settlers. Perhaps you didn't notice I said before that I was Native American? Don't talk to me about Georgia.

 

 

LIVING (to me) implies it isn't useful as it was written. It is always changing. What good is the original then? No, I believe in it as it was written. Man is the same today as he was then..... selfish, greedy, aggressive, eager, and good traits too..... the character hasn't changed.... just some of the technology & situations to which it all applies! I don't know of many conservatives who believe it is Living... that usually falls under the Liberal banner.

 

Then you don't believe in the Bill of Rights (the first 10 amendments of the Constitution)? We should still have slavery? Blacks should still count as 3/5 of a person when we are counting population for representation? Women should not have the vote? Those are changes that came about under a LIBERAL banner. If you want to slap that label on me (even though it isn't at all appropriate for my political beliefs), I'll be glad to claim it.

[stripe]

LIVING (to me) implies it isn't useful as it was written. It is always changing. What good is the original then? No, I believe in it as it was written.

I guess you're not a Charlotte Mason fan, then?

 

To me, a living document is one that continues to be relevant; a living language is one that continues to be spoken. A language that is well-preserved in its original form is...dead. A relic. A museum piece. A fossil.

 

Man is the same today as he was then..... selfish, greedy, aggressive, eager, and good traits too..

That's pretty funny: "And some good traits too."

[Audrey]

:grouphug: right back at ya! And what's sad is that our stories are not uncommon. They're just not what people want to hear so you don't hear much about them on CNN.

 

Crimes against humanity happen in our country everyday.

 

And I consider OUR family one of the lucky ones. Thank God my husband hasn't lost his job yet. He came very close just 2 weeks ago. His company has let go 2700 employees in the last 4 months and his department was cut by 60%. Imagine a bullet literally flying by your head. That's how we felt.

 

I have also known families in situations that make the most horrific movie look tame.

 

Imagine working your whole life for your family then having a child diagnosed with cancer. Next, you lose your job and your insurance with it. Can't get insurance because of a "pre-existing" condition and can't afford COBRA. COBRA is a current joke of an insurance option offered to families with pre-existing conditions who have lost coverage. You are only allowed to carry it for 18 months and the cost for said coverage is approx. $1800 a month. Paying that much simply isn't possible for most families. The standard chemotherapy protocol for Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia is 3 years. You do the math.

 

So, now your jobless, uninsured and your child is fighting for their life. You take out a 2nd mortgage (if your lucky enough to have a 1st) then a 3rd. Finally, you lose your home, sell off any assets you might have and you lose your car, which by the way was how you got you child to the hospital. That adds a new problem. Because of all of this you've also lost your sence of being a worthy man that can take care of his family.

 

Now the kicker, your son relapses. Doctor tells you that he/she will need a bone marrow transplant to save their life. You file chapter 7 and you give up everything you have or could ever hope of having, including possibly your soul, and it's still not enough. You just can't get the transplant for your child. Your only option is to try experimental therapies that could have side effects ranging from secondary infectious deaths, severe cognitive damage or, they just might not work at all.

 

You get your kid the experimental therapy all the while still having the crap beat our of you by the system. Sadly though, it's just not enough. Your child dies.

 

Now here's the happy part. You are planning on putting your baby in the ground while still oweing 100's upon 100's of thousands of dollars for the pleasure. You child isn't alive anymore but you still gotta pay those bills and a second bankruptcy isn't an option because you already took out the first trying to save your kid.

 

To top it all off, you have to live with the guilt of knowing that you just couldn't do enough to save them. "What if I hadn't lost my job?" What if we were richer?" "What if I had tried harder?" "Looked further?" Even though there was nowhere else look. You actually believe that it's YOUR fault that you're planning your babies funeral.

 

Try living with that for the rest of your life! And again, still paying those astronomical bills for the pleasure. Kinda makes you understand why some resort to suicide.

 

And if you guys think I'm being dramatic, HA! Think again. These are the families that I spoke of that lost EVERYTHING. And when I say EVERYTHING I mean much more than monetary possesions. This happens everyday! :crying:

Yep, good lives ripped apart by our current system.

 

Now you know why I consider OUR family one of the lucky ones. :sad:

 

Like I said, crimes against humanity. The average American just doesn't know. I've used Leukemia as an example because that's what I know but do you realize how many people are diagnosed with all kinds of diseases everyday. The numbers would blow your minds. And statistically, most of these people are in that middle class group that falls through the cracks because most Americans, diseases or not, are in the middle class financial bracket.

 

Now, who here still thinks that some form of a healthcare plan that's available to EVERYONE isn't long overdue in the good ole U.S.A? Or do we just stand by and do nothing because after all, "it's not my problem." Or how about, "it will never happen to me."

 

Maybe if those that believe this way keep telling themselves that then they will be able to sleep better at night.

 

As for me and mine, "spread the weath" and bring on the higher taxes so maybe we can start offering these families guaranteed healthcare!

 

 

Reminds me of my parent's story. Mom got cancer. They had good coverage. Bought extra coverage. Had worked all their lives to save for retirement. Had a big horking wad of money in savings. Owned a house mortgage free.

 

Long story short. Mom died anyway. The bills for what their so-called "great" coverage didn't cover took all of their savings. Dad had to sell the house. Bills took all of that. 5 years after her death and my dad was still paying those bills out of his Navy pension.

 

And, people here ask me why I'd never ever move my family to the States????? Absolutely no question about it. Personal experience alone was enough not to consider going back. Knowing my family's experience wasn't alone isn't exactly what I'd call heartening, though.

 

I can only say I'm sorry and offer :grouphug:. I know a wee bit of what you went through.

[mommyrooch]

And, people here ask me why I'd never ever move my family to the States????? Absolutely no question about it. Personal experience alone was enough not to consider going back. Knowing my family's experience wasn't alone isn't exactly what I'd call heartening, though.

 

I can only say I'm sorry and offer :grouphug:. I know a wee bit of what you went through.

 

You actually feel like every other family I've met while on this cancer journey. Those that don't live here in America could not be offered enough money to move here. They admit that their systems aren't perfect but compared to what we have to go through here in the states almost all universal healtcare plans in other countries make ours look like a big ole pile of..... well, you know.

 

I have met MANY Leukemia families in Canada and all of them had wonderful coverage and care during their child's illness. My husband and I have talked many times about moving there. Since we can't seem to get our American dream maybe we could get a Canadian dream. :D

 

I'm sorry to hear about your mom and dad. It doesn't surprise me though. Not only did your dad have to lose so much, including your mom, but he had to still pay for it years later. This is just so sad. :crying: Unfortunitely though it happens all the time. WAY more often than I think most people realize.

 

Let your dad know that he's not alone. Also, I don't blame you a bit for not coming back here. Where do you live? Perhaps I could move there if things seem better than here.

[texascamps]

Oh yea, well if you think your health care is so great how come life expectancy in Canada is only 80.34 while here in the good old USA it's a whopping...what? did anyone check double-check the numbers? 78.06?

 

Never mind.

 

At least we beat Australia :D

 

Oh, we didn't.

 

New Zealand? No.

 

South Korea? No.

 

Greece? No.

 

Bosnia-Herzegovina? No.

 

Jordan? Not quite.

 

Haiti? We must be ahead of Haiti, please tell me we are ahead of Haiti?

 

Yes!

 

Yes? Yes!!! Woo hoo

 

:party: U.S.A. U.S.A. U.S.A.

 

 

 

These statistics are misleading. They come out every year from WHO, the UN etc. and they don't really mean anything. They are highly politicized and by the WHO, UN etc, to show how the capitalistic West is a farce, then the medical journals come out with what they suspect are the real figures.

 

Why? Because the US reports \and all infant deaths that they can. If the baby is born in a hospital or medical facility, then it is counted.

 

Even the WHO in small print admits that the majority of countries under report mortality rates because they don't have the tracking system we have. Most countries don't count infant deaths until the baby is a few months old. The US reports deaths that occur as soon as the baby is born. In some countries, a newborn that lives only a few weeks is a "stillborn". And some countries don't have anyway to track deaths that happen to folks in slums, rural areas and areas that have not formal government. You can't count a death that occurs to someone who you don't even know exists. Plus, they under report for political reasons period.

 

I refuse to be suckered into stats by orgs that don't readily disclose collection methods and criteria.

 

If our medical system is so bad then why are we giving money to all those countries that are above us on the "list"? They should be giving us money.

 

If you are poor in this country then you have freen healthcare already. You can walk into a county ER and get free care for whatever ails you.

 

At my husbands Company, (construction) they offer everyone health insurance for a total out of pocket cost of $18 every two weeks the company picks up 90% of the cost. Less than 10% signed up because they know they can walk in any county hospital or clinic and get free care. However, when AFLAC showed up. ( they provide cash directly to you if you get injured to cover "costs" and lost wages) they jumped all over it because..... you guessed it, they can go to the county hospital for care, have taxpayers pay for it and then collect the AFLAC money which goes in their pocket. It really is a great idea! Why wouldn't anyone do that?

 

Why would anyone pay for health insurance? If you are poor you qualify for Medicare, and when you are old Medicaid.

 

 

The healthcare available in this country is awesome no matter what the predominate media and political party wants to tell everyone. There are problems, but they should look at eliminating fraud and hypochondria. If there is nationalized healthcare in this country, then they ought to have a nationalized diet plan, too since obesity is the biggest health care problem we have.

 

They tax the heck out of cable to pay for the Nationalized Healtcare Plan.

[elegantlion]

Jumping in late and haven't read all the replies but I'm an uninsured cancer survivor. I'm 15 years out of tx but I have concerns. My dh is self-employed and we can either live in a house or pay health care costs, that is if anyone would even insure me. We don't qualify for anything "free" because my dh works his butt off and thankfully I haven't had a relapse.

 

I don't worry, but I have spent my fair share of time googling "long term effects of radiation" and "percentages of recurring cancer's in survivors".

 

I miss an HMO where I could make a 5.00 co-pay and never worry about another bill.

 

Something has to give in the system. I think it is inherrantly wrong that someone like Octo-mom can go through invitro and have 8 babies and I avoid the doctor unless I'm dying because I don't want more debt.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

By texascamps If you are poor in this country then you have freen healthcare already. You can walk into a county ER and get free care for whatever ails you.

 

 

Emergency rooms will not give you chemotherapy or radiation treatments or the like. ER's provide emergency care and some are closing due to all of the free care they provide, which in my opinion is a national secuirty issue. Er's also will not provide you with expensive medications used to treat a variety of conditions. So it is simply not true that the poor can get whatever care need in our country.

 

By texascamps The healthcare available in this country is awesome no matter what the predominate media and political party wants to tell everyone. There are problems, but they should look at eliminating fraud and hypochondria. If there is nationalized healthcare in this country, then they ought to have a nationalized diet plan, too since obesity is the biggest health care problem we have.

 

They tax the heck out of cable to pay for the Nationalized Healtcare Plan.

 

The healthcare is not so great to the approximately 50 million people without health insurance or the millions more with not so great health insurance that routinely denies payment for legitimate claims or that will not cover pre-existing illnesses. Consequently, many wait until their health problems become severe before they will go to a emergency room or a doctor when it ends up being more expensive to treat.

 

I think that Americans are already paying for health care costs. Individuals, businesses, local and state goverments, and health care facilities are already bearing onerous costs for health insurance premiums. I think transferring these costs to a tax to pay for single -payer public health insurance would be less of a burden to all and end up stimulating our economy. :)

 

Oh, and by the way, I would love to a have a job that offered health insurance for only $18.00/pay. That is not the norm from my experience unless you happen to work for the goverment:) My premiums have been as high as $300.00/per bi-weekly paycheck for a family plan and as high as $1500.00/month on the individual market.

 

I definately believe in excercising my rights as a citizen and voicing my opinion to my representatives in Congress;)

 

 

U.S. Senate Switchboard

(202) 224-3121

 

The link to Congress with contact info:

 

 

http://www.house.gov/

 

 

Just my 2 cents:)

Edited May 22, 2009 by priscilla
spelling

[keptwoman]

These statistics are misleading. They come out every year from WHO, the UN etc. and they don't really mean anything. They are highly politicized and by the WHO, UN etc, to show how the capitalistic West is a farce, then the medical journals come out with what they suspect are the real figures.

 

Why? Because the US reports \and all infant deaths that they can. If the baby is born in a hospital or medical facility, then it is counted.

 

Even the WHO in small print admits that the majority of countries under report mortality rates because they don't have the tracking system we have. Most countries don't count infant deaths until the baby is a few months old. The US reports deaths that occur as soon as the baby is born. In some countries, a newborn that lives only a few weeks is a "stillborn". And some countries don't have anyway to track deaths that happen to folks in slums, rural areas and areas that have not formal government. You can't count a death that occurs to someone who you don't even know exists. Plus, they under report for political reasons period.

 

I refuse to be suckered into stats by orgs that don't readily disclose collection methods and criteria.

I can not comment about the other countries on the list. But I can tell you categorically that a still birth in Australia and New Zealand is a baby who is BORN STILL. If a baby dies even one day after their birth they are not counted as a still birth. Australia and NZ are not 3rd world countries with dodgy reporting practices. The stats will be as accurate as those of the US.

[Audrey]

You actually feel like every other family I've met while on this cancer journey. Those that don't live here in America could not be offered enough money to move here. They admit that their systems aren't perfect but compared to what we have to go through here in the states almost all universal healtcare plans in other countries make ours look like a big ole pile of..... well, you know.

 

I have met MANY Leukemia families in Canada and all of them had wonderful coverage and care during their child's illness. My husband and I have talked many times about moving there. Since we can't seem to get our American dream maybe we could get a Canadian dream. :D

 

I'm sorry to hear about your mom and dad. It doesn't surprise me though. Not only did your dad have to lose so much, including your mom, but he had to still pay for it years later. This is just so sad. :crying: Unfortunitely though it happens all the time. WAY more often than I think most people realize.

 

Let your dad know that he's not alone. Also, I don't blame you a bit for not coming back here. Where do you live? Perhaps I could move there if things seem better than here.

 

 

Unfortunately my dad passed on a few years ago as well. At the end he said it was okay, he had just been waiting to be with mom again anyway. Cancer got him, too, but he was on his Medicare/Navy pension plan (can't remember what that was called), in other words a form of socialized medicine. So, there were no catastrophic bills at the end.

 

PM if you'd like. I have been happy to share immigration and regional info with others on this board in the past. I'd be most happy to help, as best I can, with any queries you might have.

[Heather in the Kootenays]

I can not comment about the other countries on the list. But I can tell you categorically that a still birth in Australia and New Zealand is a baby who is BORN STILL. If a baby dies even one day after their birth they are not counted as a still birth. Australia and NZ are not 3rd world countries with dodgy reporting practices. The stats will be as accurate as those of the US.

 

Canada's stats will be equally accurate.

[mommyrooch]

Unfortunately my dad passed on a few years ago as well. At the end he said it was okay, he had just been waiting to be with mom again anyway. Cancer got him, too, but he was on his Medicare/Navy pension plan (can't remember what that was called), in other words a form of socialized medicine. So, there were no catastrophic bills at the end.

 

PM if you'd like. I have been happy to share immigration and regional info with others on this board in the past. I'd be most happy to help, as best I can, with any queries you might have.

 

Oh Audrey, I'm so sorry about your dad. :grouphug: I'm sorry to hear that you have lost both your mom and your dad. I hate death!

 

Thanks for the offer of immigration information. I will probably PM you for some info.