Christian Hair Question......

[Nestof3]

I think the long hair signifies a keeping with the tradition of femininity. For centuries, many women (at least American and European) wore their hair long, often up in a pins or something when around others and down for their husbands. Women also at this time adorned themselves in long skirts. The cutting of the hair short seemed to become a popular style around the same time women's clothing and practices became more liberated (pants, short skirts, sleveless tops) and perhaps into a more neutered way of thinking. I think some people see a connection and desire to continue to dress in what they deem a more feminine way with more traditionally feminine hair.

 

All I know is, my husband, my son, and most men I know prefer long hair on women. But that has been discussed before.

 

Of course, none of that is reason to make a doctrine over hair.

Edited February 17, 2009 by nestof3
added emphasis

[home4school]

About 6 years ago, we lived in a subdivision and the family across the street had 3 girls. They were a Christian family that hsed for religious reasons and they wore dresses, had long hair, no make-up, no jewelry, no TV, etc. They never allowed their girls to play with the other kids in the neighboorhood, except when we started hsing, they would allow the youngest (12) to come over into my drive to play with my boys who were about 4 and 6 then.

 

One day, I was in our room in the basement exercising. I had the basement door open so I could keep an eye on the boys playing just outside. Here I am, in a sports bra with one of my dh's big tank tops over it, those tight stretchy exercise shorts, jumping around to Denise Austin which is playing on a 60" projection TV. I look up and there stands that little girl looking on in astonishment! I was mortified! I can only imagine the conversation that went on in their house when she went back and told them what all she had seen. I hated it happened, but I was in my house, had no idea she was coming over. Kind of funny now, but boy not then!

 

This all just made me think about that!:tongue_smilie:

 

Blessings,

Kim

[TXMomof4]

 

I understand why some folks write this off as legalism, I truly do. However I put this in the same category as doctrinal differences in Baptism, Eucharist, etc. I can't wait to meet Jesus some day and see how those little things get sorted out.

 

I think it is largely the state of the heart that matters most.

 

I agree entirely. I see arguments for x and against z that get so heated and wonder......Is Jesus sitting up there laughing at us? I think he must sometimes.

 

The whole issue is one of those where if someone believes it and follows it, I believe it is my job to encourage them. Not tell them they're wrong. In the grander scheme of things does hair determine your Christianity? I certainly hope not! (Not that anyone here was saying that, but it has been said elsewhere.)

[CKaye]

I saw an espisode where the girls were asked this very question and one of the girls said that her dad liked long hair and they wanted to please their dad. I think it's as simple as that, but I could be wrong. They perm each others hair to save money. I think the girls are cute.

 

Ckaye

[chaik76]

I hope your head feels better soon! :grouphug:

 

So, do they perm their hair? i always wondered because the front sections sometimes look straight (like the new wife's) but the rest is curly, and some of the little baby girls seem to have straight hair. So women (and girls) who follow Gothard just perm it all the time?

 

Astrid

This has probably already been answered by now, but yes, most of the Duggar girls perm their hair (one has naturally curly hair). I don't think that all women who follow Gothard perm their hair...it isn't required. The girls said in one of the episodes that there's not much you can do with long hair and they perm it to keep it looking nice and make it easier to deal with.

[mommaduck]

The girls said in one of the episodes that there's not much you can do with long hair and they perm it to keep it looking nice and make it easier to deal with.

Then they haven't run into any Oneness Pentacostals...those girls can do hair! And I mean long hair into elaborate updo's! :D

[chaik76]

We (as in my family and extended family) don't keep short hair for two reasons: one being short hair is masculine and we feel are role as females is an important one and we shouldn't go around looking or acting like males, that's also why we don't where pants. And another, at least in our Orthodox Faith, not all follow this, is head covering. In some circles having long hair can double for having your head covered. If you have short hair, you need to cover it. We cover for prayer, and prayer should be "unceasing" so we cover all the time. Long hair gets to double as the head covering for some people. but that's just us.

We're Orthodox too...although we don't follow long hair or wearing only dresses (we believe that pants and short hair can be feminine too, as long as we aren't dressing to emulate the exact look of a man and be mistaken for one). I've actually never been to an Orthodox Church that still uses head coverings, and stopped using one when I joined the Orthodox church (I was Catholic before) because people looked at me strangely...

[Word Nerd]

Well, he may, but on the wedding show, for instance, so many others have similar hair. The new wife, her sisters, etc. Just wondering if it's beyond a personal preference thing--- None of them have straight long hair, all seem to have the same curly long hair.

 

Astrid

 

Those pesky dominant genes.

[6packofun]

Completely and totally agree. Well said!

[AuntieM]

conservative, family-integrated church. That translates to lots of kids, many of them girls, of whom about 90% wear their hair *very* long. Our church makes no statement about the appearance of women aside from the fact that women should not dress in a way that distracts men (anyone, for that matter) from worship, ie, no mini-skirts, cleavage, too-tight clothes, etc.

 

My dd is one of few that wears her once-long hair in a pretty, feminine bob. A couple of months back she donated her beautiful blonde hair to Locks of Love.

 

So it's probably just me, but some Sundays as I look around the church, I wonder how many ill, bald-headed little girls could be provided for by the donation of just a fraction of the hair from the heads of these girls... (Not condemning them for not donating, just considering the possibilities.)

 

Dd4 now has enough to donate 10", which will leave her with a short bob. The first Sunday we show up after that monumental hair cut may be very revealing, depending on what kind of reactions she gets!

[Spy Car]

Did Jesus have long hair? Or is that a misunderstanding perpetuated in Western art?

 

Bill

[Lovedtodeath]

Well, at least we know Sampson did.:tongue_smilie:

Interesting:

The Corinthian congregation was probably composed largely of Greeks and Jews, and among such people it is natural for women to have longer hair than men. This is not necessarily true among all peoples. Scientists usually recognize three characteristic types of hair: the long straight hair of Orientals and Indians, the short wooly hair of Negroes and Melanesians and the wavy hair of Europeans and Semites. Of the first two types, "the difference of length in man and woman is scarcely noticeable" if allowed to grow uncut. But not so with the third type. In general, among men "the length rarely exceeds 12 to 16 in. [30 to 40 centimeters], while with women the mean length is between 25 and 30 in. [63 and 76 centimeters] and in some cases has been known to reach 6 ft. [1.8 meters] or more."—The Encyclopædia Britannica, 11th Ed., Vol. 12, p. 823.

Edited February 18, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[Karen sn]

 

But the Duggars have said the dad simply likes the long hair, so, they all have long hair. Now, if he 'likes' it for Biblical reasons, I have not heard mention of it. I have only heard/read that it is because Jim Bob *likes* the long hair. :)

 

That makes me feel ill, no offense.

[Karen sn]

We (as in my family and extended family) don't keep short hair for two reasons: one being short hair is masculine and we feel are role as females is an important one and we shouldn't go around looking or acting like males, that's also why we don't where pants. And another, at least in our Orthodox Faith, not all follow this, is head covering. In some circles having long hair can double for having your head covered. If you have short hair, you need to cover it. We cover for prayer, and prayer should be "unceasing" so we cover all the time. Long hair gets to double as the head covering for some people. but that's just us.

 

 

Ok. But WHAT is dress based on?

Didn't Jesus and plenty of other biblical men have long hair and wear robelike/dress like clothing?

[Karen sn]

Ugh, to me this is worse! I never, ever in a zillion years would have worn my hair a certain way or dressed a certain way because my dad liked it. That is sort of....ugh, just, ick.

 

I'm still a little creeped out by that one as well.

[Karen sn]

I was thinking the same thing and giggling... my hair has a definite Pagan vibe going on (like Audrey's avatar, but not green). I don't cut it, but it's because I have a phobia, not for any spiritual / religious purpose.

 

A phobia? I have images of some creepy barber?

[Pamela H in Texas]

Did Jesus have long hair? Or is that a misunderstanding perpetuated in Western art?

 

I HATE most art of Jesus. He was PERFECT and yet they depict him as weak, fragile, sickly looking, often homely even. A perfect man would definitely have been very healthy, vibrant, and handsome (though beauty is in the eye of the beholder). This isn't to say he looked CONSIDERABLY different than others though. For example, we know that he was identified with a kiss when with the apostles.

 

Based on scripture and history, it is likely that Jesus had more hair than what many conservative men these days wear, but much less hair than is depicted in most art depicting Jesus.

 

ETA: Samson was a Nazirite so had his hair long as a requirement different than most.

Edited February 18, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[LaxMom]

A phobia? I have images of some creepy barber?

Nope, just many bad haircuts by people who don't seem to "get" my hair, followed by months of trauma trying to get it to do something - anything - until it gets long enough to put it up.

 

(In my shiny new avatar, it is simply tied in a knot.)

[HRAAB]

I know one family where the daughter wanted to cut her hair, and before she could do that, she had to obtain her father's permission. Actually, I've heard people express this mindset before due to the fact that the father is the protector of the family, of the females, and so he should have the final say in matters of hairstyle, dress, etc. to ensure they aren't attracting the wrong kind of attention. Again, they are not Gothardites.

 

Oh, and it's 'my understanding' that Gothard does not approve of men having facial hair either. Does anyone know where that comes from? Scripture?

As for me I like my man hairy!

 

You know what this conversation has done to me? Makes me want to go get my hair cut short. I've been growing it out for a few months, and I now I've really got an itch to take the shears to it.

 

Janet

[Friederike in Persia]

This thread is nearly as much fun as the one some time back on guns in church!

 

Astrid, if you're still reading, I always thought your name was German, since very popular there. But it must be cause Lindgren is so popular.

[mommaduck]

Oh, and it's 'my understanding' that Gothard does not approve of men having facial hair either. Does anyone know where that comes from? Scripture?

As for me I like my man hairy!

 

Same place certain pentacostals and mennonites get it...the early 20th century view of being "clean cut". However, you can claim religious exemption with Gothard (how funny is that) on the beard...but you have to apply for it through their system.

 

I like mine with a beard or goatee also.

[mommaduck]

Did Jesus have long hair? Or is that a misunderstanding perpetuated in Western art?

 

Bill

What you see in art is considered "short" hair for much of history. Our view of short hair has changed due to the ways that we cut hair.

[OnTheBrink]

I HATE most art of Jesus. He was PERFECT and yet they depict him as weak, fragile, sickly looking, often homely even. A perfect man would definitely have been very healthy, vibrant, and handsome (though beauty is in the eye of the beholder). This isn't to say he looked CONSIDERABLY different than others though. For example, we know that he was identified with a kiss when with the apostles.

 

Based on scripture and history, it is likely that Jesus had more hair than what many conservative men these days wear, but much less hair than is depicted in most art depicting Jesus.

 

ETA: Samson was a Nazirite so had his hair long as a requirement different than most.

 

I'd never look at an artist's rendition of someone they've never seen and assume them to be correct. And, Isaiah 53:1-3 indicates that Jesus was not overly handsome or physically "perfect", as we consider the perfect man to look:

 

Isaiah 53

1(A)Who has believed our message?

And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

2For He grew up before Him like a (B)tender shoot,

And like a root out of parched ground;

He has ©no stately form or majesty

That we should look upon Him,

Nor appearance that we should [a]be attracted to Him.

3He was (D)despised and forsaken of men,

A man of sorrows and (E)acquainted with grief;

And like one from whom men hide their face

He was (F)despised, and we did not (G)esteem Him.

[Lovedtodeath]

1968 Watchtower

It was the general custom for Jewish men to clip their hair to a moderate length, the long uncut hair of Nazirites marking them as men not following the general custom. (Num. 6:5) Even the Greeks reading Paul’s comments would have appreciated his remarks concerning women having longer hair than men. This would have been emphasized to them by the fact that, in Corinth, shaving a woman’s head, or clipping her hair very short, was a sign of her being a slave girl or of being in disgrace for having been caught in fornication or adultery.—1 Cor. 11:6.

 

The short style of men’s hair in the Western world is patterned after the Roman custom, and it is considerably shorter than the style common for Jewish men in Jesus’ time. Similarly, women today quite often cut their hair shorter than was usual among ancient women. Yet, there is still a marked difference between the sexes. So, while personal taste and local custom have a definite bearing on how long a Christian wears his/her hair, he does want it to reflect his masculinity or femininity, and modesty.

 

Edited February 18, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[Reya]

I'm hoping it's for Locks of Love. Grow it and donate the hair.

Not likely, but one can guess!

 

Why do people always ask this about people with long hair???? There is NO NEED for anyone to justify having long hair by saying they'll give it all away some day any more than there's a need for someone to justify short hair. If I sound annoyed, it's only because I AM. Some women are beyond catty about others with long hair--saying they want to be "little girls" forever or that they're man sharks or other nonsense.

 

WHY are you "hoping" that it's for locks of love? Why do you think women need to justify their hairstyles to you or anyone?

 

BTW, the Duggar girls do cut their hair or the ends wouldn't be so straight--nor would their hair be fairly short (that is, above waist-length for almost every girl). It is extremely unlikely that they are permed because perming hair that long and keeping it permed results in severe damage. Long hair is easy to make wavy or straight simply by braiding it (if you normally have straight hair) or blow-drying it (if it is normally wavy).

 

My hair reaches my tailbone--and yep, I cut it, too. I'm trying to see if I can get it to my knees currently. I've never tried to really grow it out before. One of my great-grandmothers had hair that reached her feet. Another had hair that was barely longer than bra-strap length. Neither ever cut their hair. So I'm not sure what mine will do.

[Reya]

I HATE most art of Jesus. He was PERFECT and yet they depict him as weak, fragile, sickly looking, often homely even. A perfect man would definitely have been very healthy, vibrant, and handsome (though beauty is in the eye of the beholder). This isn't to say he looked CONSIDERABLY different than others though. For example, we know that he was identified with a kiss when with the apostles.

 

Based on scripture and history, it is likely that Jesus had more hair than what many conservative men these days wear, but much less hair than is depicted in most art depicting Jesus.

 

ETA: Samson was a Nazirite so had his hair long as a requirement different than most.

 

Um. Jesus wasn't attractive. This is the only thing we know about his looks, other than that he would have had longer hair and a beard because of his religious affiliation.

[Reya]

We (as in my family and extended family) don't keep short hair for two reasons: one being short hair is masculine and we feel are role as females is an important one and we shouldn't go around looking or acting like males, that's also why we don't where pants. And another, at least in our Orthodox Faith, not all follow this, is head covering. In some circles having long hair can double for having your head covered. If you have short hair, you need to cover it. We cover for prayer, and prayer should be "unceasing" so we cover all the time. Long hair gets to double as the head covering for some people. but that's just us.

 

That's kinda funny because of the law tradition that Rabbi wives in particular should have a head covering OR short hair. Sheesh. I wish I remember what that's from!

[Reya]

 

Oh, and it's 'my understanding' that Gothard does not approve of men having facial hair either. Does anyone know where that comes from? Scripture?

As for me I like my man hairy!

 

Janet

 

Peter the Great! :-P

 

http://www.didyouknow.org/peter.htm

[Kelli in TN]

Oh, and it's 'my understanding' that Gothard does not approve of men having facial hair either. Does anyone know where that comes from? Scripture?

As for me I like my man hairy!

 

 

 

About 15 years ago we were involved in a church that had a lot of followers of Gothard. Of course a couple of them invited us to consider the Gothard lifestyle. We watched some videos and read up on how our children should be like wood ducks and such. But that no beard rule was the final straw for us. When we found out about that we never looked at the Gothard stuff again.

 

Another funny about it, when we mentioned the no beard policy to another Gothard family they got a little defensive and asked how we knew this. We said that we saw it in some literature from the institute. They explained that we were not really supposed to have access to the literature until AFTER we had been through one of the seminars. I guess the family that loaned us books, videos and literature to look at was breaking some rule about leaking information!

[Lovedtodeath]

Why do people always ask this about people with long hair???? There is NO NEED for anyone to justify having long hair by saying they'll give it all away some day any more than there's a need for someone to justify short hair.

WHY are you "hoping" that it's for locks of love?

 

:iagree:I am just as guilty of not donating my hair by not growing it long enough to donate to begin with. I am not that annoyed or catty, though.;)

[mommaduck]

I guess the family that loaned us books, videos and literature to look at was breaking some rule about leaking information!

 

They were.

[Kelli in TN]

They were.

 

That's pretty freaky.

 

 

It's sort of like a cult or something.

[Nestof3]

That's pretty freaky.

 

 

It's sort of like a cult or something.

 

Ya think? That is spooky.

[MyThreeSons]

It's probably close to 50 years now. She believes that's what the Bible calls for. Her younger sister has really long hair as well.

 

Someone else has to comb it for her, and then wrap it and pin it up on her head.

[Reya]

:iagree:I am just as guilty of not donating my hair by not growing it long enough to donate to begin with. I am not that annoyed or catty, though.;)

 

I'd never had total strangers asking me such questions until I moved to the East Coast. Here, I get that comment once every few months. :-P I just. like. long. hair. It's not for religious reasons. It's not because DH is an oppressive maniac. (Actually, I dye it red w/henna for him! Long hair is all for me. :-) But would there be anything wrong with it if it WERE for him????) It's not because I'm emotionally retarded or because I'm donating it. I like it. I've wanted to be able to wear a thick crown of braids for a long time. *shakes head*

[Reya]

They do - I saw a recent show where the older girls were giving each other home perms and they calculated how much money that saved them over going to a salon.

 

I don't know if there's a reason for the perming other than just wanting to look pretty though. :)

 

Which would be why their hair is relatively short for long, if that makes sense. Permed hair much longer than bra-strap gets veeeeeeery crunchy.

 

Dunno why they don't just sleep in braids, though. All the curl, none of the damage....

[KarenNC]

I'd never had total strangers asking me such questions until I moved to the East Coast. Here, I get that comment once every few months. :-P I just. like. long. hair. It's not for religious reasons. It's not because DH is an oppressive maniac. (Actually, I dye it red w/henna for him! Long hair is all for me. :-) But would there be anything wrong with it if it WERE for him????) It's not because I'm emotionally retarded or because I'm donating it. I like it. I've wanted to be able to wear a thick crown of braids for a long time. *shakes head*

 

My hair is long (though not as long as it was when I was a kid) and I wear skirts exclusively. Neither of these is for religious reasons but when folks find out I homeschool, a lot them assume I do it for religious reasons.

 

When I was elementary to middle school age, my hair was to my hips and my dad actually didn't like it *at all* because it took forever to wash and dry it, which I always seemed to be doing when he wanted us all to go somewhere. I wore it short in high school and college because it was more in style (as much as I ever was "in style";)), but grew it out long again as an adult. I do keep it long in large part because my husband likes it that way and I enjoy the fact that he likes it :D. It hovers around midback right now (actually shorter than he would ideally like it).

 

I wear skirts pretty much exclusively because, well, I am a very large woman and I've *seen* my rear-end in pants----it's *not* an inspiring sight:). I like the way they look and am very comfortable in them. My daughter tends to wear skirts a lot, probably in part because I wear them, although she wears pants and shorts as well. We do wear skirts longer because I think it looks better overall and is more modest.

[LisaNY]

About 15 years ago we were involved in a church that had a lot of followers of Gothard. Of course a couple of them invited us to consider the Gothard lifestyle. We watched some videos and read up on how our children should be like wood ducks and such. But that no beard rule was the final straw for us. When we found out about that we never looked at the Gothard stuff again.

 

Another funny about it, when we mentioned the no beard policy to another Gothard family they got a little defensive and asked how we knew this. We said that we saw it in some literature from the institute. They explained that we were not really supposed to have access to the literature until AFTER we had been through one of the seminars. I guess the family that loaned us books, videos and literature to look at was breaking some rule about leaking information!

 

Huh - no beards? Jewish NT believers had beards.

[mommaduck]

Huh - no beards? Jewish NT believers had beards.

No beards, because in Gothard's younger years, beards were signs of laziness, hippies, rebels, etc.

[OnTheBrink]

BTW, the Duggar girls do cut their hair or the ends wouldn't be so straight--nor would their hair be fairly short (that is, above waist-length for almost every girl). It is extremely unlikely that they are permed because perming hair that long and keeping it permed results in severe damage. Long hair is easy to make wavy or straight simply by braiding it (if you normally have straight hair) or blow-drying it (if it is normally wavy).

 

 

 

They do perm their hair. They talked about it on one of their TV episodes about how doing their own perms at home saves so much money.

[Guest girllygirl7]

i know!!! they have pretty hair but I am so over Michelle's flipped back bangs. that is so old school and Anna's really thin hair with that swoop bang in the front and that ugly crunchy curl

[Kathy in MD]

...... Also Gothard (the religious group they belong to) feels that girls hair should be long, flowy, and curly (or something like that), ......

 

If that's what is required to be a Christian, I'd never make it. My hair is scrawny, yucky, bone straight and never gets very long, even when I was a teen and wanted long hair. :D

 

And if you've seen my picture from the Williamsburg conference, that's only my hair because I bought it. It comes off at night.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Kathy in MD

[skaterbabs]

And if you've seen my picture from the Williamsburg conference, that's only my hair because I bought it. It comes off at night.

 

 

roflol!!!!

 

 

My hair is long simply because I hate it short; over the years I've done short hair a few times and ALWAYS regretted it. It's so much easier to throw it in a basic braid when taking the kids to the park than to deal with it in my face, and I love having the freedom to style it in so many different ways.

[PiCO]

And one needs to look at the context of Paul's writings. At this time it was the practice of the pagan temple virgins to shave their heads. Perhaps Paul is encouraging Christian women not to emulate the practices of pagans - which the Corinthians seemed to have a tendency to do.

 

Well, that makes sense- thanks for posting!

 

Strangely enough, I know a pagan family with 5 daughters, all have long hair. Only one cuts her hair, because she doesn't like it to be so long she sits on it. ;)

[MomofSeven]

My girls have long hair because when you have a big family, it's just more practical and cheaper than having to maintain a stylish cut. That's my brief answer.

[HeatherLynn]

My hair is long because I look, um, manly with shorter hair. My DD has long hair because we just think it looks better.

 

My DH is also of the belief that all women look better with long hair and were created by God to be that way. It upsets him greatly if my DD or I cut our hair to shoulders or above. GREATLY.

 

So, we keep it long.

[HeatherLynn]

My hair is long because I look, um, manly with shorter hair. My DD has long hair because we just think it looks better.

 

My DH is also of the belief that all women look better with long hair and were created by God to be that way. It upsets him greatly if my DD or I cut our hair to shoulders or above. GREATLY.

 

So, we keep it long.

[Ginevra]

I did see the episode in which the daughters perm each other's hair. It's sweet in that respect. And their hair looks fairly pretty. I do think the "reason" is a little creepy - "Dad likes long hair." Whuh?

 

I also think there's something a little...incestuous? in Josh's wife having the same hair and looking like she is a sister. It's weird. I would be a little wigged if my husband had chosen me and I looked just like his sisters.

 

And Michelle - please! Grow out the earmuffs or cut it all chin-length. I really can't take the mullet.

[hmschooling]

I've met them in person and lived rather close to them actually...I don't think it's biblical reasons they have long hair...I think they are taught to look and act feminine and with their beautiful long hair, I think they have accomplished that. They are all looking so grown up and absolutely beautiful! Have you seen them recently?! They may have long hair, but it is stylish and feminine...I have long hair too, but just because I like it that way (and so does dh). So maybe they just like it that way, or maybe it takes so much time and money to get that many haircuts!

 

They aren't weird or perfect like the show has tried to make them seem. They are fun and normal, sweet, giving, and kind, well-mannered and well liked by those that meet them in person. They are just great Biblical examples people aren't used to seeing and so they seem weird...including the fact that they have totally trusted God with their family and happen to have been blessed by so many kids. My kids got a chance to play with their wild and crazy little boys and that right there was proof enough for me about just how normal they are ;)

[HeatherLynn]

If you look at the avatar I have that is my DD when she cut her hair shoulder length. Dh was not angry but said her prefers it long. Just like he prefers her to wear certain things over others. I don't find it incestuous at all.