If you supplement with Vitamin D, can you comment here?

[HappyGrace]

I've seen lately that they have upped the level needed of this. We drink raw milk, so it does NOT have added vitamin D, and we live in the Northeast and aren't good about getting outside daily. When we do go outside, it's for a long enough period of time that we wear sunscreen, so we won't absorb any D. It's also supposed to help some with depression, so that's good too! So that's our reasons for wanting to start supplementing. I just cked and the kids' multi does have 400 IU, so they're all set since that's a good dose for kids. My calcium pill only has 200 IU, so I'd like to add another 400 IU pill (the recommendations are for 600 to ideally 800 IU per day.)

 

What brand do you use-is this one like Vitamin C where even a cheapo brand will do the trick? Why do you use it and how is it working for you?

[Pamela H in Texas]

The recommendation *I* saw was 800 to 1000. My doc has me take 1000 because I'm deficient (she also gave me the 50,000 IU prescription to jumpstart it).

 

I picked mine up at Walmart.

[stripe]

I saw D-Drops, where it's just one drop, not a pill, that comes in either 1000 or 2000 IU, and possibly one lower dose too (marked as for kids).

[In The Great White North]

There was a thread a month or so ago, which linked to articles recommending 10,000 IU (above a certain latitude). I'll see if I can find it.

 

We get the vitamin D gelcaps (which look just like the fish oil but smaller.) The dc have problems swallowing the tablets.

[Liz CA]

What brand do you use-is this one like Vitamin C where even a cheapo brand will do the trick? Why do you use it and how is it working for you?

 

I have been given "Bio-D Mulsion Forte" by Biotics Corporation. I only need to take one drop a day (2000 IU) and this little bottle has lasted over a year now and still has plenty left in it. The price -while I cannot remember the exact amount - was not exorbitant.

 

I have no adverse side-effects.

 

I don't know if you can get anywhere else other than from a naturopath where I got mine from.

Edited January 19, 2009 by Liz CA

[Lovedtodeath]

I have DD taking 400 IU a day and I take 2,000 IU a day. DH takes 2,000 IU every 2-3 days. DD and I miss days sometimes too. It is fat soluble so you don't have to take it daily. You can get it tested.

There is a lot of information here: http://vitamindcouncil.org/

[HappyGrace]

I will probably look for an 800 IU then to bump me up to 1000 per day at LEAST. For now, anyway, til I can get my levels checked (I have my annual coming up end of next month.)Thanks for the info so far.

 

Tablet or liquid-filled capsule: does it matter? (For instance, I know with calcium, the tablets are better.)

 

Have you noticed any positive side effects from taking it?

Edited January 19, 2009 by HappyGrace

[abbeyej]

My doctor said 2000iu/day and he was adamant that I needed to take it seriously and not blow it off. (I had tested deficient even though I drink fortified milk and my regular vitamins have 400iu.)

 

He said 400iu is merely what we need to prevent rickets -- but more and more evidence indicates that's not nearly enough for optimal health.

 

(I'm waiting for cillakat to comment -- she's vitamin D guru...) ;)

 

Oh, and I'm in the south and I don't use sunscreen except on my face...

Edited January 19, 2009 by abbeyej

[Mommyof4ks]

We live in the south, but we still supplement during winter. We take Lifetime liquid D3; it is mixed berry flavor. One dose contains 1000IUs of vit. D. Somewhere I heard that the new recommendation is 800-1000IUs, but I will have to look it up and bring the link back here. Also try only using sunscreen on places that tend to burn (face, shoulders,and feet). The arms and legs don't usually burn.

Edited January 19, 2009 by dwkilburn1

[Guest]

I just started supplementing due to some discussions here. I haven't been able to get to the dr., but I figured it didn't sound like it could do any harm. My supplements total about 1400. I've been taking it about 3 weeks and have noticed a HUGE difference in my mood. I've just felt happier and maybe a bit more energy. I don't think it's in my head (although it could be!) b/c I forgot I was taking it for my mood and said to myself one day how much happier I had been. Then, I figured omg - I bet it's the vit. D! Here's to hoping!

[mom2abcd]

I was having a blood test done and asked for the Vitamin D test after the discussion here. The doctor wants levels to be 20 or higher and mine were 13. I think the vitamindcouncil.org site says optimal levels are around 50-55 ng/mL. I'm currently on the 50,000 IU. I need to find out if they have me on D2 or D3.

 

 

Here's a previous post by cillakat:

The only 'artificial' D you can currently get is D2, which isn't what you want anyway. it's a biologically inappropriate analog when it comes to human physiology.

 

Get D-3/cholecalciferol. It all comes from fish liver or (very rarely) lanolin.

 

My favorite one is bio-d-mulsion by a company called Biotics Research. it's often hard to find b/c it's only supposed to be sold by hcp's to their own clients. However, there is a chiropractic practice in FL selling it on their website:

 

vitamins4you.com

 

To be able to 'view' it or buy it, you must first (yes first) create an account, then search for it. You'll find the regular Bio-D-Mulsion which is 400 IU per drop. Or the Bio-D-Mulsion forte! which is 2000 IU per drop.

 

I like the 400 IU per drop b/c it allows more flexability in dosing....i can vary it depending on sardine/wild salmon consumption etc.....

 

Dosing recommendations can be found on vitamindcouncil.org

 

As more D literature rolls in (and the body of evidence is large, very large, at this point), the trend in recommendations is moving up. The RDI was jokingly, frighteningly low.

 

The AAP has bumped the "birth-4" recommendation to 400 IU per day and that's probably still to low by at least half based on the available evidence.

 

There are also tons of D3 tiny gel capsules at iherb.com tons of them.....Cheapest price per IU and no vitamin A are the guiding factors.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I had a blood test done to find out my vitamin D level. My naturopath says that she wants my level to be 80. In October, I was 20.

 

I have gone on high doses but I get another blood test every 3 months to check my levels. For one thing, the dr. wanted to know if I was metabolizing the vitamin D because if I wasn't then I would be pouring money into the vitamins for nothing. And because in my case there were significant physical symptoms from being so deficient. One of my symptoms at that low level was feeling like there was acid burning in my arm bones.

 

At my last test I was up to 60. That is considered (by my naturopath anyway) a low normal. I am finally feeling "normal" at this level. I need to be careful that I don't overdo the vitamins though at this level because too much is bad for you too. Vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin and is stored in the body. You will not pee it out like you will water soluble vitamins if you get too much.

 

One more point. Vitamin D, calcium, magnesium and potassium all work together in your body. I recommend going to a naturopath who really understands supplements in order to get the ratios correct. If your calcium, magnesium or potassium are off you can get leg cramps (as well as other symptoms).

[ELaurie]

5000 IU per day.

[OH Kim]

Would you be willing to skip the sunscreen for a period of time to get the vitamin for free?

[swellmomma]

My kids take a tablet that is 1,000iu. They have not been tested, but given the length of our winters, the amount of sunscreen I put on them (espeically ds who is at risk for skin cancer so I sunscreen him daily year round), their ped was very happy that I was supping them for this. I just buy mine at walmart, Jamieson brand, they say they are D3 on the label. They have had no side effects, in fact now that I have started them on supps of a few things they have gotten healthier and behaviour issues are leveling off.

[Lovedtodeath]

Would you be willing to skip the sunscreen for a period of time to get the vitamin for free?

 

That doesn't work. See the link in my previous post for more information about Vit D and sun exposure.

[Lovedtodeath]

One more point. Vitamin D, calcium, magnesium and potassium all work together in your body. I recommend going to a naturopath who really understands supplements in order to get the ratios correct. If your calcium, magnesium or potassium are off you can get leg cramps (as well as other symptoms).

 

Great info Jean. Are the leg cramps a symptom of having more Vit D but not of the other nutrients? Or will the cramping be there before Vit D supplementation?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Great info Jean. Are the leg cramps a symptom of having more Vit D but not of the other nutrients? Or will the cramping be there before Vit D supplementation?

 

The difficult thing is that being low in calcium, magnesium or potassium can all cause some leg cramps - so how do you tell which one it is?

 

I had "restless leg syndrome" at night - more calcium helped that.

 

Then as my calcium got up but my magnesium got out of balance, I got some cramping and panicky feelings. My naturopath said to take a cal-mag supplement to keep those two minerals in balance and that worked.

 

Every now again despite taking a cal-mag supplement I will still get leg cramps. The naturopath said that's probably my potassium out of whack. So I eat a banana and it goes away!

 

Vitamin D deficiency did not cause me to have any cramps. It did cause me to be tired, moody, and to have pain when I was really low.

[CactusPair]

I take 2000IU of D3 on advice of my neuro. He told me that awhile ago, though, and the recommendations have probably increased since then.

 

I live in the north and don't get out much. In the summer I cover up bec. I'm very fair-skinned, so I don't enough vit. d through sunlight.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks Jean. Low thyroid and dehydration can both cause leg cramps as well. I think I have all of the causes at different times.

[Pamela H in Texas]

The doctor wants levels to be 20 or higher and mine were 13. I think the vitamindcouncil.org site says optimal levels are around 50-55 ng/mL.

 

You might have misunderstood. It IS, ideally, supposed to be over 50. However, they don't consider you officially deficient until under 20..

[Peela]

Why do you use sun screen? You are much better getting at least some Vit D through your skin. I live in Australia, we have a hole in the ozone layer, it's hot and sunny for 8 months of the year- yet I never wear sunblock except a dab of zinc on the end of my nose occasionally. The whole sunscreen thing is a debacle. And its just not that hard to cover up or get a light tan. My kids have been sunburned twice- its Australia remember, its sunny, you get burned in 10 minutes of sun in summer- and that was when they were not in my care and they were visiting friends who put SUNBLOCK on them and sent them out in the MIDDAY sun.

( I have a beef with the whole sunscreen thing- first they tell you to wear sunblock or you will get skin cancer- a very dubious link- then, they tell you you need more Vit D. Well, duh, we were built to get Vit D through our skin fom the SUN. I believe its only a matter of time till the news comes out, oops, sorry, we were wrong, actually sunscreen causes cancer. )

I take Cod Liver Oil to boost my Vit D and Vit A levels now and then, and I give it to the kids when they get sick. You need one that has a good ration of Vit A to Vit D though- about 5:1 is good.

[chiguirre]

I just had an appointment with a new endocrinologist for my thryroid (and as always the goiter isn't growing and my thyroid levels are fine). She gave me a scipt for Vitamin D. I thought this was a little weird since it's not really a thyroid issue but now I understand, it's the medical trend du jour.

 

Are there any reasons I shouldn't take the megadose prescription and supplement? I don't want to blow it off if it's serious, but I can't shake the feeling it will turn out to cause some other problem in 2 years, KWIM?

[HappyGrace]

Thank you all so far!

 

We choose to use sunscreen because I use Retin A on my face and an alpha-hydroxy lotion on my body, which makes me extra sensitive. Also I have a redhead dc with fair skin, and we love to swim, which makes us unable to cover up. I'm not that thrilled about using it since we're almost all organic (except for the retin A and alpha-hydroxy but when you hit 40, you do what you have to do!! :lol:), but we only need it for about 3 months a year here, so I deal with it.

 

I believe calc/mag should be taken in a 2:1 ratio, which is what I do, but then I'm not sure what the D ratio should be compared to that-maybe it depends on blood levels? Jean-I would love to have a naturopath for this kind of stuff, but we just can't afford it since insurance of course doesn't cover it. What a blessing that you are able to go to one! That would be my dream.

 

I will shop around on the sites mentioned and compare the D3. I want to get started right away. Then I can get tested the end of next month when I go and adjust accordingly. I'm very hopeful that this could help with depression too!

 

Keep 'em comin' if there are more comments-this is so helpful!

[Blessedfamily]

African American women have less Vit D and really need to supplement. Then melanin in our skin blocks VitD formation from the sun. That doesn't make a huge difference since most of us spend all day indoors anyway. We wouldn't get enough either way.

 

I'm interest in more brand recommendations.

 

Nice thread, HappyGrace! Thanks.

[jejily]

A recent blood test revealed that my Vit D levels were way down, so I got a weekly mega-dose jumpstart for a month, and then will take this megadose monthly.

 

BTW, on my lab results, there is a note that says this: "Recent studies consider the lower limit of 32.0 ng/mL to be a threshold for optimum health." And they site some medical journal.

 

If you have kidney problems you should be careful about talking excess Vit D without first talking with your doctor.

[abbeyej]

Why do you use sun screen? You are much better getting at least some Vit D through your skin.

 

Well, I only use sunscreen on my face (and only when I'm going to be out at the worst times) because I do have some photosensitivity issues (again, just there on my cheeks, nose, forehead). Still, I manage to be quite deficient in D. sigh...

 

I know I got a lot more sun when we lived in California vs living here in Georgia, but I have no idea if I was deficient then too or not.

[klmama]

I take the Vit. D3 from Sam's Club, Member's Mark brand. 2000 IU daily. At 1000 daily it improved my mood temendously, but while I wait for test results the doctor told me to go ahead and take 2000, and that we'll probably raise that even more once we know the exact numbers. He uses the test from LabCorp, as he says it is the most reliable of the testing companies for Vit. D levels. He said that only 1 of 85 people have levels in the optimum amounts, and that most Americans are actually deficient unless they supplement, regardless of how much time they spend in the sun. I have no idea if that's accurate or not, but that's what he said.

[Lovedtodeath]

( I have a beef with the whole sunscreen thing- first they tell you to wear sunblock or you will get skin cancer- a very dubious link- then, they tell you you need more Vit D. Well, duh, we were built to get Vit D through our skin fom the SUN. I believe its only a matter of time till the news comes out, oops, sorry, we were wrong, actually sunscreen causes cancer. )

I take Cod Liver Oil to boost my Vit D and Vit A levels now and then, and I give it to the kids when they get sick. You need one that has a good ration of Vit A to Vit D though- about 5:1 is good.

Quite right! Cillakat has more information on sunscreen. It actually blocks the GOOD UVs and lets the BAD cancer causing UVs through! But most (like 90%) people cannot get enough Vit D from the sun anyway (and to get enough from milk, you would need way more a day than anyone drinks, I know it is over 10 glasses). But of course, some would be good, I would think.

 

I just had an appointment with a new endocrinologist for my thryroid (and as always the goiter isn't growing and my thyroid levels are fine). She gave me a scipt for Vitamin D. I thought this was a little weird since it's not really a thyroid issue but now I understand, it's the medical trend du jour.

 

Are there any reasons I shouldn't take the megadose prescription and supplement? I don't want to blow it off if it's serious, but I can't shake the feeling it will turn out to cause some other problem in 2 years, KWIM?

Vit D is needed in order to have optimal thyroid levels. I would rather take Vit D which will help my body regulate my thyroid, then take thyroid, which will never be optimal levels b/c my own body is not regulating the dose. KWIM?? It is also a good idea to add Sea Vegetables to your diet.

[Snickerdoodle]

We all take cod liver oil.

[mia78]

Carmen, you're on the right track, but missing a little something. Yes, the thyroid needs D, but more importantly, it needs iodine and your whole body needs iodine more than a hundred pounds of iodine in sea vegetables would be able to get into your body. Women's breasts are the second gland in line to uptake the iodine in the body and that's why there's so much fibrocystic breast disease and cancer, and so on. Also, some sea vegetables are known to be contaminated with arsenic. It's just like how your body needs more C than an orange a day grown on depleted soils will get you so supplementing is necessary.

 

Also, another way to get the Vitamin D without risking sun exposure is to use one of those indoor light machines. I don't have any specific links to share, but just google 'vitamin D light machine' or something of that nature and I'm sure something will come up.

[4kids4me]

My naturopath recommends 4,000 units. I live in Canada, so even when it's sunny in the winter I don't get much. She says 4,000 is no problem...just think how much we get on a nice summer day -- 20,000 or more. :)

[Blessedfamily]

My naturopath recommends 4,000 units. I live in Canada, so even when it's sunny in the winter I don't get much. She says 4,000 is no problem...just think how much we get on a nice summer day -- 20,000 or more. :)

 

I read that this morning. On a sunny day day people can naturally make up to 30,000. I was surprised.

Edited January 19, 2009 by Blessedfamily
I meant on a sunny day, not on a Sunday

[hornblower]

Quite right! Cillakat has more information on sunscreen. It actually blocks the GOOD UVs and lets the BAD cancer causing UVs through!

 

This is not quite true, esp in countries where broad spectrum sunscreens have been mandated for years. In the US you are lagging behind by allowing sunscreens to be on the market that only have UVB blocking ingredients. Good sunscreens block UVA (cancer & wrinkle causing) & UVB (sunburn causing). You need ingredients (in levels high enough to be listed as 'active') such as titanium dioxide, zinc oxide, and avobenzone (often listed as butyl methoxydibenzoylmethane)

 

Melanoma is a killer & the rates are jumping. The ozone layer depletion has meant that the sun rays getting through today are much stronger than what got through in the past.

 

Hornblower - fair skinned, living by the sea, on constant "bad mole" watch

[Lovedtodeath]

This is not quite true, esp in countries where broad spectrum sunscreens have been mandated for years. In the US you are lagging behind by allowing sunscreens to be on the market that only have UVB blocking ingredients. Melanoma is a killer & the rates are jumping. The ozone layer depletion has meant that the sun rays getting through today are much stronger than what got through in the past.

 

My naturopath recommends 4,000 units. I live in Canada, so even when it's sunny in the winter I don't get much. She says 4,000 is no problem...just think how much we get on a nice summer day -- 20,000 or more. :)

 

Carmen, you're on the right track, but missing a little something. Yes, the thyroid needs D, but more importantly, it needs iodine and your whole body needs iodine more than a hundred pounds of iodine in sea vegetables would be able to get into your body. Women's breasts are the second gland in line to uptake the iodine in the body and that's why there's so much fibrocystic breast disease and cancer, and so on. Also, some sea vegetables are known to be contaminated with arsenic. It's just like how your body needs more C than an orange a day grown on depleted soils will get you so supplementing is necessary.

 

Also, another way to get the Vitamin D without risking sun exposure is to use one of those indoor light machines. I don't have any specific links to share, but just google 'vitamin D light machine' or something of that nature and I'm sure something will come up.

 

Good points. TY

[buddhabelly]

We simply take Rainbow Light (sour lemon!), the only brand my health food store sells (they are very choosy).

 

It has made a huge difference in my mood and my energy level. My son said, "Mom, PLEASE don't stop taking Vitamin D. I like this mom." I am much more fun, quick to laugh, quick to suggest fun things.

 

Some researchers are actually suggesting that the reason that SAD lights work is because they do cause Vitamin D production in the skin. This is a HUGE revelation to me, because I have had Seasonal Affective Disorder for 27 years (ever since I moved away from Southern California). To think that all this time, I could have just been taking 1,000 IU of Vitamin D? Wow. Just wow.

 

Don't ask me why I live in Alaska with SAD. I ask myself that every winter. But I do love it here.

 

Julie

[Jill]

Great Thread, Thanks! I'll give it stars or whatever we can do now.

I'mgoing to check our doses now. I only started supplementing D this past December. I'm in North Dakota so even on a sunny day I'm not out getting rays.

[StephinAL]

I too have tested low repeatedly, even after being on 2000IU daily, then the mega weekly dose. I am now taking 8000IU daily and trying to incorporate iodine as I am hypothyroid and have fibrocystic breast. I backed off of the iodine because I was having adrenal trouble in spite of taking supplements to support the adrenals. That probably has nothing to do with vit D, but just thought I'd mention it anyway.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I too have tested low repeatedly, even after being on 2000IU daily, then the mega weekly dose. I am now taking 8000IU daily and trying to incorporate iodine as I am hypothyroid and have fibrocystic breast. I backed off of the iodine because I was having adrenal trouble in spite of taking supplements to support the adrenals. That probably has nothing to do with vit D, but just thought I'd mention it anyway.

I wasn't aware that iodine causes trouble for the adrenals. Would you mind adding some specs?

[Peela]

I read that this morning. On a sunny day day people can naturally make up to 30,000. I was surprised.

 

 

The problem I have with all the scientific info is that with what we actually know- we need W and X to make Y and Z in our bodies- all this in depth stuff that bamboozles people- we forget that what we don't know is far more vast. We think we know, and it makes us feel smug, but in fact we don't really know much in the big scheme of things. Sunshine is a nutrient for the homan body. We may have measured some things in it, with the equipment they have built to date- but what about what is in sunshine that we don't know about yet?

 

That's why, even though I also try and keep somewhat abreast of the scientific knowledge, I like to look at what traditional societies did. They often wore minimal clothing for the weather, and spent more time outdoors, so got more sunshine on their skin,and they supplemented with foods- not synthetic vitamins- such as cod liver oil. They bred healthy children, and as a society we are not really breeding such healthy kids anymore.

 

I am not suggesting we go back to those times- but I just have a problem with science is relied upon too heavily, and common sense goes out the window. (And yes there is a hole in the ozone layer etc etc and we need to take that into account- still, many people have been saying "we need sunshine" and I doubt the medical profession, who ridiculed them and terrified everyone with skin cancer scares, are going to apologise and say they were right! Instead they give them pills.).

 

Can you tell I am on a Western Price studying binge at the moment :) ?

Sorry this got OT but maybe someone is interested in my soapbox rantings- at least enough to find out for themselves instead of believing the latest 'scientific' information release.

[Blessedfamily]

I understand what you're saying Peela. It was alarming to me though, to read that brown skinned (particularly African American) woman can have ten times less VitD than a fair skinned person of the same age.

 

I'm trying to sort this all out.

[StephinAL]

I wasn't aware that iodine causes trouble for the adrenals. Would you mind adding some specs?

 

From what I have read it is the impact on your thyroid from the iodine that can overstress the adrenals.

 

http://www.healthnatura.com/art_iodoral_side_effects_what_to_do.htm

[cillakat]

You might have misunderstood. It IS, ideally, supposed to be over 50. However, they don't consider you officially deficient until under 20..

 

most labs have updated their norms to a minimum of 32 ng/mL for the bottom of 'normal'. It's still too low and likely will go up again in another 10 years. The biggies in D science (hollick, hollis, cannell, vieth) are generally in agreement that 50-55 or 50-70 (depending on who you read) are optimal levels .

 

Anywhere else in the world (ie not in the US), the translates to an optimal level of around 125 nmoL.....so those of you anywhere else should be looking for much higher numbers b/c of the different scale.

 

my fave D supplement is the one from Vieth's company. In Canada it's called "D Drops". Here in the US, Carlson has the rights to it and sells it in many stores and online vendors. Here is the link to it from my favorite source, iherb.com:

http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=6113980569814739786

 

I'd get the 2000 IU bottle. I take a drop or two every day, my kids get a drop a few times a week. DH takes a drop daily.

 

Carlson also has a 400 IU drop which may be easier if you'd rather just give the kids their drop(s) daily rather than every few days. Remember that the AAP has just doubled the RDI for infants - it's now 400 IU per day. Cannell says it's still too low and recommends 1000 IU per 25 lb body weight. It's easy enough math anyway:)

 

Katherine

 

:)

katherine

[cillakat]

I've seen lately that they have upped the level needed of this. We drink raw milk, so it does NOT have added vitamin D, and we live in the Northeast and aren't good about getting outside daily.

 

even if you went outside every day in your bikini AT NOON, you still couldn't get sufficient D from the sun 9 months of the year based on your latitude.

 

Your kids will need more than 400 IU D - and it needs to be cholecalciferol, not ergocalciferol.

 

My 40 gets 1000 IU per day from all sources (i track D from salmon, tuna, sardines and factor that in).....I just give her enough drops of the '2000 IU drops' to bring her total intake up to 7000 IU D per week. My 60 lb 9 yo gets 1000 IU per week.

 

I had been taking 2000 IU per day, but now that I'm very sun protective, it's not enough, so now I'm taking 4000 IU per day most days. (2 drops of the carlson). An ongoing harvard study is indicating though that 4400 IU D per day is the minimium needed (for women of low/normal bmi) to maintain 32 ng/mL (which is still too low). In light of the harvard data, Canell may be right: 1000 IU per 25 lb body weight could actually be the appropriate dose..

 

I can't strongly enough recommend the carlson D drops (clear, flavorless, odorless), but honestly, any oil based D-3/cholecalciferol gelcap supplement will do the trick. Avoid 'dry' D or 'vegetarian' D supplements, they are not as effective. Aside from those recommendations, it really dosen't matter which D supplement you use.

 

:)

K

[cillakat]

That's why, even though I also try and keep somewhat abreast of the scientific knowledge, I like to look at what traditional societies did....snip...They bred healthy children, and as a society we are not really breeding such healthy kids anymore.

 

 

 

I agree. Though for me, it's less about 'traditional' and more about 'evolutionary environment'. the WAP is misrepresenting much about 'traditional'. But that's another post. It's comical how inaccurate some of their info is if we look back 300 or so years to 'traditional' diets v. piecing together what we can wrt a biologically appropriate diet in the environment of evolutionary adaptation.

 

Anyhoo, the bottom line is that most people who have jobs or who work/live indoors or who wear clothes, simple cannot get enough D from sun no matter what. In many 'traditional' environments in northern climes, health was very poor, bones were easily broken, teeth were lost young because of lack of plantfoods (ie lack of antioixdants and vitamin K) and lack of vitamin D. Some D could and did come from tripe and other organs and from fish and especially fish livers but it wasn't enough for *very* good health....and the ratios of A to D were off b/c of the high donation of A from some of the organs.

 

Traditional societies in warm and tropical environs fared much better in terms of bone density and dental health b/c it was easier to get enough to - simply wear few clothes and spend most of the day out of doors getting hours of unprotected sun exposure.

 

It's simply not a lifestyle that works for humans at this point in time. When I first found out I was D deficient:

~it was August (so after a full summer of sun exposure)

~in *Atlanta* (so in the south, at a latitude where we can get D from sun about 4 mos of the year, if we try hard enough)

~and I NEVER EVER EVER wore sunscreen (I was opposed to it based on the fact that it's not biologically appropriate for humans...whatever)

~I had two little kids and spent a lot of time outside, every day....even at the pool.....I sought shade when I could, but got a lot of sun and was very tan many months of the year

~we ran a lot of errands, were out most of the day so in addition to purposeful exposure, I got a lot of incidental exposure. I always wore short sleeve, v-neck shirts, never a hat and again, _never_ any sunscreen.

 

My D levels were somewhere between 24-26, which we now know is low.....turns out it was low enough that it was the cause of the bone pain I'd had my whole life, the fibromyalgia symptoms I'd developed, the muscle weakness that had plagued me on and off since my first pregnancy and more and more.

 

Now it's looking like D deficiency during pregnancy might be one of the triggers to turn on gene expression of learning disabilities, autism and more. We already know it is (either one of the factors triggering gene expression or causative in another way) for breast cancer, prostate cancer, lung cancer and pancreatic cancer.

 

This is so not something to mess around with. Everyone here needs D unless they are purposefully sunning midday every day (when sufficient D can be had at their latitutde) or taking D every day if they don't do that. Since I'm not fond of the effects of UVA on my skin integrity, I'm no longer on the 'd from sun' path. I protect my skin as much as possible, and get as much D as I need, to maintain optimal levels of 50-55 ng/mL, from supplements. I test my D (and am again next week), to see if I am achieving that goal.

 

:)

K

[cillakat]

This is not quite true, esp in countries where broad spectrum sunscreens have been mandated for years. In the US you are lagging behind by allowing sunscreens to be on the market that only have UVB blocking ingredients. Good sunscreens block UVA (cancer & wrinkle causing) & UVB (sunburn causing). You need ingredients (in levels high enough to be listed as 'active') such as titanium dioxide, zinc oxide, and avobenzone (often listed as butyl methoxydibenzoylmethane)

 

 

Actually, it's still difficult to get good UVA protection. It's getting easier now that the big s/s producers in the US are producing stabilized avobenzone formulations. But really, do you want to use a stabilized avobenzone formulation containing oxybenzone (which they *all* have except for one of the banana boat 30 spf kids sprays). I don't. No purposeful application of known endocrine disruptors for me or my kids:)

 

I do order european s/s and do use the highest UVA/PPD protection that I can obtain and tolerate. Thankfully, with daily use of retinoids, I can use high ppd s/s daily without breaking out.

 

Unfortunately TiO2 and ZO simply are not highly effective highly protective UVA blockers. While it's true that zinc blocks a huge *range* across the UVA spectrum, it's very inefficient. In other words, one can use say 3% of Both tinosorbs, a little avobenzone (which is stabilized by tinosorb M) and end up with a PPD of 35 (some of the high PPD biodermas are in that range). But with zinc, one could do 10, 12 or14% and end up with a PPD (meausre of UVA protection) no higher than 8. TiO2 doesn't block across the UVA spectrum the way zinc does....you can still get a ppd of 8 with it, but it doesn't cover the 360-400 nm portion of the spectrum as well as a ppd of 8 from zinc would.

 

Optimal protection will come from s/s containing both tinosorbs and avobenzone....there are other factors too - unfortunately I can't find a high ppd, 2tinosorb/avo s/s that is even reasonably waterproof....so I'm stuck with the La Roche Posay mexoryl S and mexoryl XL/avo formulations when water resistance is necessary (love the LRP dermo-peds spray for summer for the kids). I use sun protective swimwear as needed and keep reapplying my bioderma.

 

Always happy to talk s/s,

Katherine in atl

 

PS documentation regarding absorbance spectrum of s/s filters can be found at makeupalley.com under the usernames of 'beethovengirl' and 'sunscreens'. It's all you could ever want to know plus some:) Oh, and there's a great book by Carol Demas....called _Sunscreens_ iirc. It's available from either lulu.com

 

http://www.lulu.com/content/217981

Edited January 20, 2009 by cillakat

[cillakat]

She gave me a scipt for Vitamin D. I thought this was a little weird since it's not really a thyroid issue but now I understand, it's the medical trend du jour.

 

Are there any reasons I shouldn't take the megadose prescription and supplement? I don't want to blow it off if it's serious,

 

 

It's deadly serious. Don't supplement just for the sake of following a trend. Supplement to get your levels to an optimal 55 ng/mL or therabouts. Test D levels every three or four months, avoiding D supplements for 48h prior to testing.

 

vitamindcouncil.org states that the dose needed to maintain optimal levels, if getting no D from sun, is 1000 IU per 25 lb body weight.

 

Katherine in atl

[cillakat]

I had a blood test done to find out my vitamin D level. My naturopath says that she wants my level to be 80.

 

Based on what evidence? There is no evidence that 80 is a better level than that 55-70 ng/mL which is the range that is often tossed about by Vieth, Cannell, Hollick, Hollis et all. Are you in the US? Outside the US, a different scale is used, so numbers will be higher for optimal.....125 nmoL would be the bottom of optimal anywhere else.

 

More is not better. Just go for optimal:)

 

K

[Lovedtodeath]

vitamindcouncil.org states that the dose needed to maintain optimal levels, if getting no D from sun, is 1000 IU per 25 lb body weight.

 

1000 IU per 25 lbs per week or month?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Based on what evidence? There is no evidence that 80 is a better level than that 55-70 ng/mL which is the range that is often tossed about by Vieth, Cannell, Hollick, Hollis et all. Are you in the US? Outside the US, a different scale is used, so numbers will be higher for optimal.....125 nmoL would be the bottom of optimal anywhere else.

 

More is not better. Just go for optimal:)

 

K

 

Quoted from a website by a Dr. Miller:

"In order to enjoy optimal health, we should maintain a vitamin D blood level of ≥50–99 ng/ml. Without sun exposure, to reach a level of 50 ng/ml requires taking a 5,000 IU/day vitamin D supplement. There are two kinds of vitamin D supplements: vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol), the kind our skin makes, and vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol), a synthetic variant made by irradiating plants. Vitamin D2 is only 10–30% as effective in raising 25-hydroxyvitamin D blood levels compared to vitamin D3, leading the authors of a recent study conclude, "Vitamin D2 should not be regarded as a nutrient suitable for supplementation or fortification" (Am J Clin Nutr 2006;84:694–697).

 

Concerns about vitamin D toxicity are overblown, along with those about sun exposure. As one researcher in the field puts it, "Worrying about vitamin D toxicity is like worrying about drowning when you’re dying of thirst." The LD50 of vitamin D in dogs (the dose that will kill half the animals) is 3,520,000 IU/kilogram. One can take a 10,000 IU vitamin D supplement every day, month after month safely, with no evidence of adverse effect. (Am J Clin Nutr 1999;69:842–856). A person must consume 50,000 IU a day for several months before hypercalcemia (an elevated calcium level in the blood, which is the initial manifestation of vitamin D toxicity) might occur. Vitamin D in a physiologic dose (5,000 IU/day) prevents the build up of calcium in blood vessels. (Circulation 1997;96:1755–1760). If one takes 10,000 IU of vitamin D a day and spends a lot of time in the sun, it would be prudent to check vitamin D blood level to ensure that it does not exceed 100 ng/ml."

 

I don't know if this is the actual study she used - I'll have to ask her. But these are the levels she quoted me. But she doesn't want my levels to go higher than 80 just to be safe. Anecdotally (sp?) I only started to feel totally "normal" when it hit 60. My fibromyalgia symptoms, burning bone pain, muscle weakness and general debilitating fatigue have gone away. I do still have some adrenal issues but we're hoping that they will get better as my body has less stress on it physically. But even though I quote this, do what your Dr. says - not what I say!