Digital SAT

[Roadrunner]

I have a kid who plans on taking this in March. He hasn’t but needs to study for it. I know the reading section is different. What about math? Is there any substantial difference in the math section or can he review with paper SAT math questions? 

[freesia]

There are some changes. The questions are less wordy for one thing. I know I’ve seen write ups on line about the changes.  I would have him work through the practice tests on the College Board Blue book app. You can go over what you miss. 
 

Im interested to hear how it goes. We had a system that really worked for the paper SAT. Now I’m starting over with a kid who isn’t likely to score as high as her sibs—but I need to prep her as high as she can get for scholarships. Sigh

[Roadrunner]

26 minutes ago, freesia said:

There are some changes. The questions are less wordy for one thing. I know I’ve seen write ups on line about the changes.  I would have him work through the practice tests on the College Board Blue book app. You can go over what you miss. 
 

Im interested to hear how it goes. We had a system that really worked for the paper SAT. Now I’m starting over with a kid who isn’t likely to score as high as her sibs—but I need to prep her as high as she can get for scholarships. Sigh

My older kid didn’t need to prep to get a near perfect score either. This kid though is a different story. I have old paper exams I am thinking to have him work though those for grammar and math. We will download blue book. Is there anything else out there do you know? 

[freesia]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

My older kid didn’t need to prep to get a near perfect score either. This kid though is a different story. I have old paper exams I am thinking to have him work though those for grammar and math. We will download blue book. Is there anything else out there do you know? 

There are books out there, but I think pretty much they are just best guesses. The College Board dSAT prep has paper versions of the practice test so it’s useful for what the problems look like. There’s a new note taking part for writing. I did get the dSAT book by Meltzer(?) to use as grammar review for dd —to get her used to the wording. Math is where she’ll need the most prep, but she’s just ninth so I’m waiting. 
 

What I meant to say before I started rambling was that I think Khan academy is as good as anything right now as everyone is just kind of guessing. There is a DSAT prep section up that I’ve had dd playing around in. 

[SanDiegoMom]

I don't know how much you've read about it, but one big change is that it's adaptive, so that one's performance on the first half will decide how difficult the second half will be.  If a student does really well, the second half might get much harder questions.  I think the podcast Tests and the Rest has an episode that talks about the digital SAT. 

[BusyMom5]

My boys took PSAT and it's adaptive- if you don't do well enough it won't give you the hardest sections.  The reading sections were much shorter with fewer questions per passage.  

[Nart]

Being able to use Desmos on the ENTIRE Digital Sat Math section seems like such a big change. So many problems can easily be solved by plugging equations into Desmos. 

It will be interesting how students who are using the Desmos math curriculum end up doing on the Digital SAT. Right now Desmos Math is only available for grades 6-8 and Algebra with plans to expand to higher levels of math. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

On 2/11/2024 at 11:08 PM, Nart said:

Being able to use Desmos on the ENTIRE Digital Sat Math section seems like such a big change. So many problems can easily be solved by plugging equations into Desmos. 

It will be interesting how students who are using the Desmos math curriculum end up doing on the Digital SAT. Right now Desmos Math is only available for grades 6-8 and Algebra with plans to expand to higher levels of math. 

Yes, I'm hearing from test prep specialists that familiarity with Desmos is very helpful. But also, students should not rely on the calculator, since some questions can be answered intuitively and plugging them into the calculator will slow them down.

[gstharr]

Students can still use their own CB  approved  calculator, instead of desmos

[Nart]

12 hours ago, gstharr said:

Students can still use their own CB  approved  calculator, instead of desmos

 

On 2/21/2024 at 5:06 PM, Sebastian (a lady) said:

Yes, I'm hearing from test prep specialists that familiarity with Desmos is very helpful. But also, students should not rely on the calculator, since some questions can be answered intuitively and plugging them into the calculator will slow them down.

I can see how intuitively knowing the answer saves time, but if you don't then Desmos still lets you solve the problems really quickly. Here are sample problems from the college board:

(x − 1)2 = −4
How many distinct real solutions does the given equation have?

1. A)  Exactly one

2. B)  Exactly two

3. C)  Infinitely many

4. D)  Zero

So intuitively it is quicker to know the explanation (from College Board)

Any quantity that is positive or negative in value has a positive value when squared. Therefore, the left-hand side of the given equation is either positive or zero for any value of x. Since the right-hand side of the given equation is negative, there is no value of x for which the given equation is true. Thus, the number of distinct real solutions for the given equation is zero.

But if you don't it only takes about 10 seconds to plug in the equation too see there are zero solutions. 

Here is another easy problems using Desmos:

In the xy-plane, a line with equation 2y = 4.5 intersects a parabola at exactly one point. If the parabola has equation y = −4x2 + bx, where b is a positive constant, what is the value of b ?

The College Board explanation is: 

The correct answer is 6. It’s given that a line with equation 2y = 4.5 intersects a parabola with equation y = −4x2 + bx, where b is a positive constant, at exactly one point in the xy-plane. It follows that the system of equations consisting of 2y = 4.5 and y = −4x2+ bx has exactly one solution. Dividing both sides of the equation of the line by 2 yields y = 2.25. Substituting 2.25 for y in the equation of the parabola yields 2.25 = −4x2 + bx. Adding 4x2 and subtracting bxfrom both sides of this equation yields 4x2 – bx + 2.25 = 0. A quadratic equation in the form of ax2 + bx + c = 0, where a, b, and c are constants, has exactly one solution when the discriminant, b2 − 4ac, is equal to zero. Substituting 4 for a and 2.25 for c in the expression b2 − 4ac and setting this expression equal to 0 yields

 But using Desmos it takes less than 30 seconds (and if you type quickly less than 20 seconds) to figure out it is 6 using a Desmos slider tool. You just move it up and down until you can see the answer. 

This seems like such a huge change. Am I missing something? There is no restriction on using Desmos?

[Roadrunner]

Hmmmm. My kid says he doesn’t know what is Desmos. 

[Nart]

8 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

Hmmmm. My kid says he doesn’t know what is Desmos. 

He really, really needs to learn how to use Desmos before the test. Here is the link:

https://www.desmos.com/calculator
 

Try plugging those problems above in and see how easy they are to solve with desmos. Then watch YouTube videos on digital SAT and desmos. How you study for the math SAT is going to tremendously change. 
 

My 9th grader is finishing algebra 2. Even though I discourage it he uses desmos and other online problem solvers as a shortcut to finishing homework instead of working out problems. He also makes careless mistakes. I was thinking he wasn’t going to take the SAT and just apply to no test schools like the UC’s but now I am going to have him study for the psat. I had him do some sample problems by hand, using only a calculator, then also using desmos. He did great on all the problems you can solve using desmos. Any system of equations, inequalities are graphed for you in desmos,etc. Some if those problems solving even with a calculator take a lot of time but took him seconds with desmos. 

[blue plaid]

So I appreciate the heads-up and decided to have my son practice using the Desmos calculator to check problems as we worked through Algebra 2 today.  So he solved the equation \sqrt{2x+1}-\sqrt{x}=1 and got solutions x=0 and x=4.  When he put the equation into desmos it looks like only x=4 is a solution. So now I am not sure what to think of encouraging him to go all in on using it for the SAT!  If anyone wants to tell us what we did wrong in Desmos, please do!

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, blue plaid said:

So I appreciate the heads-up and decided to have my son practice using the Desmos calculator to check problems as we worked through Algebra 2 today.  So he solved the equation \sqrt{2x+1}-\sqrt{x}=1 and got solutions x=0 and x=4.  When he put the equation into desmos it looks like only x=4 is a solution. So now I am not sure what to think of encouraging him to go all in on using it for the SAT!  If anyone wants to tell us what we did wrong in Desmos, please do!

Oh that’s not good. 

[Roadrunner]

Are math problems different than on paper SAT? My kid can do even the calculator section without one. I wonder if it’s the same, we should stay away from Desmos. I could see how DS would mess things up with technology. 

[EKS]

I recommend that he prep initially with paper and then take some digital practice tests if that's possible.  I took the digital GRE about five years ago and found that the first practice test I did on the computer had a much lower score than what I had been getting on paper.  That resolved fairly quickly, but there were definitely some different techniques specific to the digital version that were important to practice.

The desmos thing is ridiculous.  Of course, before they were allowing CAS enabled calculators which will solve anything like that as well.  At least by letting everyone use desmos they are leveling the playing field with regard to who has what calculator.  It would be better to just allow a four function calculator, or better yet, none.   If you're allowing desmos, it's just a short step to eliminating the math section altogether.

[silver]

On 2/23/2024 at 1:21 PM, blue plaid said:

So I appreciate the heads-up and decided to have my son practice using the Desmos calculator to check problems as we worked through Algebra 2 today.  So he solved the equation \sqrt{2x+1}-\sqrt{x}=1 and got solutions x=0 and x=4.  When he put the equation into desmos it looks like only x=4 is a solution. So now I am not sure what to think of encouraging him to go all in on using it for the SAT!  If anyone wants to tell us what we did wrong in Desmos, please do!

I'm guessing there's some issue with the left hand side not being continuous when x<0 and somehow that makes Desmos 'forget' about x=0 being a solution? It might be better to coach in a situation like this to graph two equations 'y= \sqrt{2x+1}-\sqrt{x}' and 'y=1'. That will show you two intersection points (x=0 and x=4).

[EKS]

48 minutes ago, silver said:

I'm guessing there's some issue with the left hand side not being continuous when x<0 and somehow that makes Desmos 'forget' about x=0 being a solution? It might be better to coach in a situation like this to graph two equations 'y= \sqrt{2x+1}-\sqrt{x}' and 'y=1'. That will show you two intersection points (x=0 and x=4).

It seems to know when you just put the function in but not when you put the equation in.

[daijobu]

I actually only use Desmos for graphing functions.  When I try to enter in an equation, it doesn't really work.  Where are you entering equations?  

 

[JennyD]

I have never even heard of Desmos.

This information about the digital SAT is not encouraging.  I suppose I'll have DS16 take both a practice SAT and an ACT over the summer and see how he does on each.  If they're similar then perhaps we should focus on the ACT.

 

[frogger]

I am trying to figure out how to make an adaptive test fair when you are compared with cohorts for scoring purposes. Adaptive testing totally makes sense when refining learning ability but for comparison scoring it doesn't make sense. Making a few mistakes at the begining of the test causing the second half of your test to get fewer points seems cruel, unless it requires you to simply do so badly you aren't competitive to begin with. 

[SanDiegoMom]

The digital SAT is only adaptive in that the second half of the exam has two options -- the harder or the easier.  So the entire first half is the same for everyone.  Getting the first few wrong doesn't change what you'll see after those first few. 

[Miss Tick]

12 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

The digital SAT is only adaptive in that the second half of the exam has two options -- the harder or the easier.  So the entire first half is the same for everyone.  Getting the first few wrong doesn't change what you'll see after those first few. 

So, your performance on the first half determines whether you will get the harder or easier second half. But are you saying that it takes more than a couple of mistakes on the first half to push you to the easier second half?

And then, how are the scores compared across students some of whom got the easier second half and others who got the harder second half?

Is only the math section adaptive?

[daijobu]

15 hours ago, frogger said:

Making a few mistakes at the begining of the test causing the second half of your test to get fewer points seems cruel, unless it requires you to simply do so badly you aren't competitive to begin with. 

I agree.  If you could detect the second half problems are too easy, it would be so demoralizing to know that you are going to get a low score.  Why continue?  

[freesia]

1 hour ago, Miss Tick said:

So, your performance on the first half determines whether you will get the harder or easier second half. But are you saying that it takes more than a couple of mistakes on the first half to push you to the easier second half?

And then, how are the scores compared across students some of whom got the easier second half and others who got the harder second half?

Is only the math section adaptive?

It is adaptive by taking the entire first half into account. If you get the easier second half, the highest you can get it a 650, which is still pretty good. Both sections are adaptive. 

[freesia]

2 minutes ago, daijobu said:

I agree.  If you could detect the second half problems are too easy, it would be so demoralizing to know that you are going to get a low score.  Why continue?  

That would only be for the high scorers. You can still get a 650. 

[freesia]

Coming back because I was looking for where I got the info about 650 and couldn’t find it. However, I did find this:https://www.edisonos.com/blog/the-digital-sat-scoring-algorithm-a-comprehensive-guide

It says you can only get a high in the mid-500’s if you get the easier second half, but that you get the harder section if you miss 10 or fewer (out of about 22.) So I don’t think many high scorers would be in danger of getting the easy section. 
 

ETA:edited to clear up weird auto corrects. When I was posting, dd was anxious to leave for soccer. 

Edited February 28 by freesia

[SanDiegoMom]

https://blog.arborbridge.com/digital-sat-three-surprising-things-we-learned-new-practice-tests?hs_amp=true
 

This test prep group says you need to get about 2/3 correct on the verbal and between 1/2-2/3 to get the harder modules.  There are 25 verbal and 20 math.  But the questions can also have different scoring weight, with some questions possibly being worth up to 50 or 60 points of the total SAT score.  

[freesia]

10 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

https://blog.arborbridge.com/digital-sat-three-surprising-things-we-learned-new-practice-tests?hs_amp=true
 

This test prep group says you need to get about 2/3 correct on the verbal and between 1/2-2/3 to get the harder modules.  There are 25 verbal and 20 math.  But the questions can also have different scoring weight, with some questions possibly being worth up to 50 or 60 points of the total SAT score.  

Oy, that is different from the article I found. It’s all helpful, though. I still think high scorers aren’t likely to miss more than 7 on the first part. Iirc my older kids, who scored in the 700’s, had to miss fewer than maybe 5 on the longer tests to get that score. I don’t like the idea of weighted questions—however, that isn’t that different from before when each sitting in the SAT had a different curve. Those questions had different weights between tests. 

[freesia]

I’m finding this frustrating as my older kids all had similar scores so I felt like I had a good system. Now I am starting from scratch. The SAT changed in time for my older one so it’s the similar feeling if not enough information. This child also is not as strong in math, so the ACT may not be a great fit. She is my dc who most needs strong test prep. At least she’s just in ninth grade so hopefully more info will come out. Let’s keep posting what we find. 

[EKS]

On 2/24/2024 at 7:37 PM, daijobu said:

I actually only use Desmos for graphing functions.  When I try to enter in an equation, it doesn't really work.  Where are you entering equations?  

 

When you enter an equation, you get the results for x as vertical lines.

So that's what we're talking about here, that it only shows one of the solutions even though both are valid.

Edited February 28 by EKS

[EKS]

With regard to adaptive tests, the GRE has been adaptive for years.  It's a way to test a wider range of abilities without freaking out the lower ability people and at the same time without wasting the higher ability people's energy on a bunch of easy problems.

We desperately need a college admissions exam that has a much higher ceiling.  I suspect that this new digital SAT is not it.

The problem with the tests we have now is that people who score in the 1500+ range are being differentiated on luck and executive function as much as anything else.  The original SAT spread out the top 2% of test takers over 250 points, not 100.

And the population taking the SAT back in the day was smaller than it is today, meaning it was really college bound students, and "college bound" was considered to be top 30% not top 50% or top 100% or whatever it is today.  So my point is that the old SAT may have had an even higher ceiling than it appears just using the straight scores.

Edited February 28 by EKS

[daijobu]

5 hours ago, EKS said:

 

We desperately need a college admissions exam that has a much higher ceiling.  I suspect that this new digital SAT is not it.

 

This role is being played by AP exams and specialized contests like AMC and USACO.  

[EKS]

36 minutes ago, daijobu said:

This role is being played by AP exams and specialized contests like AMC and USACO.

Yes, but it would be far simpler for everyone to have an easily available test that does something similar.  Also far more equitable.

And the PSAT is still the gatekeeper of the National Merit system.  What's ridiculous about that is that its ceiling is even lower than the SAT's ceiling!

[pehp]

On 2/24/2024 at 10:47 PM, JennyD said:

I have never even heard of Desmos.

This information about the digital SAT is not encouraging.  I suppose I'll have DS16 take both a practice SAT and an ACT over the summer and see how he does on each.  If they're similar then perhaps we should focus on the ACT.

 

I agree!!

[daijobu]

I generally like the Tests and the Rest podcast for information about college admissions.  

This recent episode is specifically about preparing for the digital SAT:  https://gettestbright.com/resources-for-the-digital-sat/

 

What materials do you recommend that your students use for the Digital SAT?
When and how should you use the official Blue Book practice tests?
What have your students tried already and what did they think?
Should you trust 3rd party scoring algorithms?
What are the best free materials to use?

[Malam]

https://1600.io/p/mastering-desmos-for-the-digital-sat

On 2/28/2024 at 9:06 PM, freesia said:

I’m finding this frustrating as my older kids all had similar scores so I felt like I had a good system. Now I am starting from scratch. The SAT changed in time for my older one so it’s the similar feeling if not enough information. This child also is not as strong in math, so the ACT may not be a great fit. She is my dc who most needs strong test prep. At least she’s just in ninth grade so hopefully more info will come out. Let’s keep posting what we find. 

Math is a quarter of your ACT score but half your SAT score. Just food for thought.

I personally don't mind the changes - based on people's experience with the March 9th SAT, the collegeboard is definitely capable of challenging strong students who have access to Desmos. And I also wish the ceiling was higher (the change to an adaptive format would have definitely given them the statistical power to do so if they wanted to) but it's no worse than the 2015-2023 paper SAT. Maybe they'll raise the ceiling once things settle down and they get more reliable data.