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“Protest behavior”


heartlikealion
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5 minutes ago, marbel said:

I don't know. Your recent experience sounds pretty typical to me. People date for a period of time, communicate regularly, and then something happens which makes one of the couple realize it's not right and not going to last. With Christmas in there, it's not crazy that gifts were bought.  It's too bad he wasn't more forthright about ending things though. 

As for being friends - I have been friends for years - decades! - with a guy I dated for a while. We had a ton of fun together and several common interests. But after a time, the superficial commonalities were eclipsed by deeper differences. We were not compatible for the long term, and though I was sad - I thought I was in love with him - I had to admit that the relationship wouldn't work well long term. We have maintained a friendship and though we haven't actually seen each other in years (living thousands of miles apart), we talk and text periodically. He came to my wedding! If he had ever gotten married, I'd have gone to his! 

 

Glad that worked but I’m not looking for that kind of relationship.

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12 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I don’t think it will change in a year. I didn’t date for a year after the separation. I focused on my job, went to trivia night, tried meetup dot com, lost 60 lbs, went to individual and group therapy. 

I’m just unhappy alone. It fuckin sucks and I’m sorry other can’t relate. Actually glad you can’t relate. Must be nice 

I don’t think that others can’t relate, it’s just that many people have experienced in both their own lives and those close to them, that it’s usually when one isn’t actively looking that they meet the right person. It was true for me and my husband, my son and his spouse, and countless others I know. One of my closest friends in college so desperately wanted to find her guy and get married ASAP that she kept getting hurt and disappointed over and over. When she finally decided to take a break after graduation and focus on her career, that’s when she met her now husband.

My husband and I were both absolutely, completely not looking at all for a variety of reasons when we started dating, the same for my son and his spouse. It’s a pattern I’ve seen repeat over and over among family and friends. 
 

You’ve done so many amazing things over the last few years and I really hope you will find a guy to share your live with. But if you can step back and keep focusing on yourself and your kids and your friends, I truly think it is more likely to happen.

Edited by Frances
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8 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I don’t think it will change in a year. I didn’t date for a year after the separation. I focused on my job, went to trivia night, tried meetup dot com, lost 60 lbs, went to individual and group therapy. 

I’m just unhappy alone. It fuckin sucks and I’m sorry other can’t relate. Actually glad you can’t relate. Must be nice 

You will probably be unhappy with a guy as well. It won't make you happy. 

Edited by TexasProud
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2 minutes ago, Frances said:

I don’t think that others can’t relate, it’s just that many people have experienced in both their own lives and those close to them, that it’s usually when one isn’t actively looking that they meet the right person. It was true for me and my husband, my son and his spouse, and countless others I know. One of my closest friends in college so desperately wanted to find her guy and get married ASAP that she kept getting hurt and disappointed over and over. When she finally decided to take a break after graduation and focus on her career, that’s when she met her now husband.

I wasn’t on any apps when I met this guy. We were supposed to hang out as friends but he made a move and we started going on dates. Then he pulled away the same night he gave me Christmas stuff. Like dude why even bring it in the house. 

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I also just know when DH was on the dating sites he might be working several connections at a time and I know for a fact he had been chatting with someone on there when he met me. Then she was fine, but he met someone better, isn't that what's suppose to happen while you are wading in the dating pool?

So dating is always going to be sort of flaky until the couple decides they want to be more. 

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2 minutes ago, Clarita said:

I also just know when DH was on the dating sites he might be working several connections at a time and I know for a fact he had been chatting with someone on there when he met me. Then she was fine, but he met someone better, isn't that what's suppose to happen while you are wading in the dating pool?

So dating is always going to be sort of flaky until the couple decides they want to be more. 

We didn’t meet on an app and he said he wasn’t on them. Who friggin knows what happened 

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10 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Glad that worked but I’m not looking for that kind of relationship.

I get that it's not what you want. My point was simply that remaining friends is not a preposterous idea, necessarily. You actually asked how one goes about that, which prompted my comment. But of course it has to work for both people and if it doesn't work for you, it's best to just end it.  

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5 minutes ago, marbel said:

I get that it's not what you want. My point was simply that remaining friends is not a preposterous idea, necessarily. You actually asked how one goes about that, which prompted my comment. But of course it has to work for both people and if it doesn't work for you, it's best to just end it.  

I doubt there’s anything to end. I highly doubt he’ll randomly invite me out. It’s a dismissive thing people say I think. 

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16 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I’m just unhappy alone. It fuckin sucks and I’m sorry other can’t relate. Actually glad you can’t relate. Must be nice 

I think what people are trying to tell you is that if you're convinced you can't possibly be happy without a man, you may be sending signals you're not consciously aware of. If you're finding that all the men you meet "flake" on you after a short time, they may be getting a vibe of neediness or desperation that scares them off. If you focus on being as happy and content as you can be with yourself, then you are more likely to attract the kind of guys you are interested in.

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1 minute ago, Corraleno said:

I think what people are trying to tell you is that if you're convinced you can't possibly be happy without a man, you may be sending signals you're not consciously aware of. If you're finding that all the men you meet "flake" on you after a short time, they may be getting a vibe of neediness or desperation that scares them off. If you focus on being as happy and content as you can be with yourself, then you are more likely to attract the kind of guys you are interested in.

Thank you. Yes. 

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3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I think what people are trying to tell you is that if you're convinced you can't possibly be happy without a man, you may be sending signals you're not consciously aware of. If you're finding that all the men you meet "flake" on you after a short time, they may be getting a vibe of neediness or desperation that scares them off. If you focus on being as happy and content as you can be with yourself, then you are more likely to attract the kind of guys you are interested in.

I go out, I craft, I do things… most that flaked didn’t meet me. They just inconsistently texted. This last guy commented on how he liked my crafting hobbies and loved my cookies. So he knew I had interests and a life. When I bought concert tickets to a show that’s months out he asked what section. It doesn’t matter though it’s general admission and I’ll probably go alone as usual. Just mixed signals man. But I’m not a mind reader. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, KSera said:

I can’t remember, are you already seeing a therapist?
 

I can’t and they don’t do anything but recommend books and collect a copay. My new ins hasn’t started and won’t for like 2 more months and I am not certain on therapy fees.  

I’ve seen many therapists. And I texted a suicide hotline once. It was a joke. My life is a joke and I move 1 step forward then 3 back. 

Edited by heartlikealion
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3 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I can’t and they don’t do anything but recommend books and collect a copay. My new ins hasn’t started and won’t fit like 2 more months and I am not certain on therapy fees.  

I’ve seen many therapists. And I texted a suicide hotline once. It was a joke. Mg life I’d a joke and I live 1 step forward then 3 back. 

I’m sorry. Finding good therapists really can be a lot of trial and error which is super frustrating. I can see a support group model possibly being a helpful option for you, since you seem like a people person  

From what I’m hearing, I’m seeing more of a three steps forward, one step back than the reverse. You’ve made a lot of forward progress recently. I know the setbacks are discouraging, even when you’re overall moving in a good direction. Settling in a new place takes time for sure. 

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37 minutes ago, Frances said:

 

You’ve done so many amazing things over the last few years and I really hope you will find a guy to share your live with. But if you can step back and keep focusing on yourself and your kids and your friends, I truly think it is more likely to happen.

I do that stuff but I’m just going through the motions. I don’t care about this mundane shit. 

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May i ask if the ups and downs are worth dating with such a serious eye is worth it? You seem to want to get serious fast. Not everyone wants that.

I feel for you and hope you can find happiness for yourself not only as a part of a couple.

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Just now, YaelAldrich said:

May i ask if the ups and downs are worth dating with such a serious eye is worth it? You seem to want to get serious fast. Not everyone wants that.

I feel for you and hope you can find happiness for yourself not only as a part of a couple.

Depends what you mean by serious. Half our interactions were platonic. Eating in a restaurant and a hug goodbye. 

Who cares it only matters if I can find someone on the same page not what’s seem as normal 

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17 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:
25 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I think what people are trying to tell you is that if you're convinced you can't possibly be happy without a man, you may be sending signals you're not consciously aware of. If you're finding that all the men you meet "flake" on you after a short time, they may be getting a vibe of neediness or desperation that scares them off. If you focus on being as happy and content as you can be with yourself, then you are more likely to attract the kind of guys you are interested in.

I go out, I craft, I do things… most that flaked didn’t meet me. They just inconsistently texted. This last guy commented on how he liked my crafting hobbies and loved my cookies. So he knew I had interests and a life. When I bought concert tickets to a show that’s months out he asked what section. It doesn’t matter though it’s general admission and I’ll probably go alone as usual. Just mixed signals man. But I’m not a mind reader. 

It might affect your feelings less if your future or current happiness wasn't tied to whether these guys are going to be your long term or forever person. You can be looking and still not have your happiness tied to this. (Which I'll admit could be harder when you are older since less people aren't coupled then.)

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19 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I do that stuff but I’m just going through the motions. I don’t care about this mundane shit. 

But surely you, your children, and your friends are not mundane? They are the very essence of a life well lived. When our family was going through a huge transformation almost twenty years ago, we agreed as a family that we would not wish the time away until things had settled down and my spouse had completed his career transition, but rather that we would live intentionally for the here and now. Because life is what happens while you are waiting for … a significant other, to finish school, to find a new career/job, etc. Early in our marriage when we were living in poverty while going to grad school, we kept wishing away the time, by saying, when we finish school then we will … And we purposefully wanted to stop doing it. As a now young adult, my son has told us it was a very valuable life lesson for him because he saw that we did it and what a difference it made to our family during the five years of transition.

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40 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

... .Just mixed signals man. But I’m not a mind reader. 

I think part of the problem isn't that you aren't a mind reader... but that you kinda seem to think you are. It seems to me that none of these men have openly communicated that they felt anything more than "She's nice to text sometimes, maybe I'll get to know her in a slightly romantic way and see what happens." -- anything built out of any alleged 'signals' on a foundation that open, simple and small is bound to get wobbly. It's pointless. If they have feelings for you they will tell you. If they tell you they have a feeling, believe that they are having the feeling they are describing. Otherwise you're spinning rainbows out of daydreams and getting disappointed when they aren't true.

[Other quote was: "It's not about sex"]

Also, if you are practicing chastity (or something like that)... It also probably *is* about sex. At least some of the time. In the dating world, lots of women say they aren't going to sleep with people until the relationship is serious, or later. In reality though, many of them have sex pretty soon anyways. Therefore, I'm sorry, but lots of men are going to be in your life briefly 'just checking' whether that might be the case for your views on sex. Unless you are dating exclusively highly committed members of traditional religions, most non-religious people (even the conservative and cautious types) expect sex to be a component of an adult romance within a few weeks to a few months. If that's when they're 'flaking' there's a non-zero chance that that's when they figured out that you *actually* mean you need a ring (or whatever your actual boundaries around sex are).

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1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

You will probably be unhappy with a guy as well. It won't make you happy. 

No, but I can understand wanting a relationship as part of a happy life. I don't think that is wrong in the least. 

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If it helps, I'm hearing all over that dating is like this now, and I'm so so sorry. Best you can do is find humor in the craziness of it! Before I met DH I had some amazingly awful dates and chatted with even more amazingly awful men. Ones that seemed okay at first...but were NOT okay, lol. I can laugh about it now, but man was it frustrating!

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7 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

No I was the one rejected physically not the other way around. I’m not officially practicing anything. 

Depression makes many things seem mundane. I seldom see my kids and while I love them they are draining, too. So I’m just not in a good place.

you are on your meds, right?

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Dating sucks. Being alone sucks. Poor communicators suck. I'm sorry you're struggling with loneliness. I'm certainly happier when I am in a healthy committed relationship, that concept doesn't seem foreign to me at all.

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1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

If it helps, I'm hearing all over that dating is like this now, and I'm so so sorry. Best you can do is find humor in the craziness of it! 

THIS.  I am stunned by the stories I heard from my daughter and her single friends.  Sadly, you're almost better off assuming the person will be an a-hole and then being pleasantly surprised if they are not. Maybe change your mindset about it.  I get it, I would have a horrible time with it!  DH and I say we caught the last chopper outta 'Nam!

Someone else mentioned thinking seriously about if this process is good for you right now.  I think that's valid, not because it's wrong to want a relationship, but because the dating process right now is SO FULL of games and rejection, you really need a thick skin.  It's that bad.

Edited by goldberry
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Adding what someone else mentioned that it's the norm to date multiple people at the same time until it's officially declared exclusive. I would hate that personally, but that's the vibe now and it is assumed.  But it sort of makes sense given how many people flake out, so you are not putting all your eggs in one basket.

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Posted (edited)

I really don’t think he was dating other people though it’s possible. He really wanted to see me over Christmas break even though I had my kids… and I never normally do this but I let him join us on one outing (introduced him as a friend - they’d met him once prior along with others I know - and we were not mushy at all around the kids). That’s why I was like what is up with this?! Dd got hungry and he insisted on paying for everyone’s food (which was not cheap). So that’s why to me I considered it high investment… and our conversations did entail what we want etc. 

I think he’s possibly a genuinely confused person but I don’t do well with a 180. Like wow everything is great. Bam no I don’t really want to be mushy after previously being so. 

Edited by heartlikealion
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3 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I really don’t think he was dating other people though it’s possible. He really wanted to see me over Christmas break even though I had my kids… and I never normally do this but I let him join us on one outing (introduced him as a friend - they’d met him once prior along with others I know - and we were not mushy at all around the kids). That’s why I was like what is up with this?! Dd got hungry and he insisted on paying for everyone’s food (which was not cheap). So that’s why to me I considered it high investment… and our conversations did entail what we want etc. 

I think he’s possibly a genuinely confused person but I don’t do well with a 180. Like wow everything is great. Bam no I don’t really want to be mushy after previously being so. 

I wasn't talking about this guy in particular but dating in general right now.  So you can be thinking about your mindset as you move forward.

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9 minutes ago, goldberry said:

I wasn't talking about this guy in particular but dating in general right now.  So you can be thinking about your mindset as you move forward.

Oh yeah I always know they could be dating other people, talking to other people… 

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3 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

He really wanted to see me over Christmas break even though I had my kids… and I never normally do this but I let him join us on one outing (introduced him as a friend - they’d met him once prior along with others I know - and we were not mushy at all around the kids). That’s why I was like what is up with this?! Dd got hungry and he insisted on paying for everyone’s good (which was not cheap). So that’s why to me I considered it high investment… and our conversations did entail what we want etc. 

Honestly, it sounds like he was being a nice guy trying to get to know someone. Then while he found nothing wrong with you, maybe for whatever reason doesn't feel like it would be a forever thing. The thing is people who are looking for the forever thing are going to give people the rejection much quicker because they are looking for "the one". I assume these men have jobs that pay decent money, so a nice guy is likely going to take you on nice dates and pay for stuff. 

Dating rejection isn't going to come with clear explanation for why because from a rational standpoint most of the time the reasons are pretty dumb and not things the other person should change. 

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1 hour ago, goldberry said:

THIS.  I am stunned by the stories I heard from my daughter and her single friends.  Sadly, you're almost better off assuming the person will be an a-hole and then being pleasantly surprised if they are not. Maybe change your mindset about it.  I get it, I would have a horrible time with it!  DH and I say we caught the last chopper outta 'Nam!

Someone else mentioned thinking seriously about if this process is good for you right now.  I think that's valid, not because it's wrong to want a relationship, but because the dating process right now is SO FULL of games and rejection, you really need a thick skin.  It's that bad.

I try not to put much stock into it at first but when a guy is texting me regularly and we’re making plans to see each other 1-2x a week it does hurt that it comes to an abrupt end. And no I wasn’t initiating all the texts!

I haven’t dated anyone from the apps since moving to this area. I’ve met up with one person as friends and we hung out on NYE. I’m not interested in dating him and he just left a toxic relationship so we both got on the apps like ok maybe I’ll just talk to someone here. You don’t always have to date them, people put friendship etc as options. And from his straight, male perspective he said he had no idea what was wrong with the guy lol 

The professor that canceled and “really wanted to see me” I wrote off. And good thing too because we never spoke again after his friend’s sleep study. 

I hardly swipe right on anyone on the apps. I’m not attracted to them, they wear sunglasses covering half their face, they are smokers etc. And several profiles say we are a couple looking for a third. 

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1 hour ago, hjffkj said:

 I'm certainly happier when I am in a healthy committed relationship, that concept doesn't seem foreign to me at all.

ITA

3 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Depression makes many things seem mundane. I seldom see my kids and while I love them they are draining, too. So I’m just not in a good place.

But also, when my depression acts up, I feel crushingly lonely despite being in a good marriage.  It's a pretty reliable sign of depression in me, actually, to feel desperately alone regardless of actual human contact, and I do fixate on romantic physical touch as the only thing that will help.  It does help, some, but when depressed I build it up in my head way too much, pin hopes on it that are too much for it to bear; aka my depressed self feels like romantic touch is a silver bullet to make me feel better, stop the depressed feelings - that's why I want it so much. 

So, even though I totally agree it's completely normal to prefer being in a long-term relationship to being single, I also think depression can intensify and warp it, give it a desperate "this is the one-and-only-thing that can make me feel better" sort of feeling that makes living without it seem a worse prospect than it would seem otherwise.  

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Combine being lonely in a new city with depression and this feeling that you’re never a keeper to men. 

I know I have a lot of blessings but sadly the only thing that really excites me sometimes is texts or time with a guy I like. Like who wants to check the mailbox when they don’t have a pen pal. I want to kick the mailbox down. 

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I’m not going to tell you what to do. But I am sorry you keep coming across duds for dates. That has to be totally disappointing and demoralizing. For what it’s worth, you’re a great person who’s overcome so much, even if the duds can’t see it. I’m sorry you’re hurting and lonely.

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14 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I’m not going to tell you what to do. But I am sorry you keep coming across duds for dates. That has to be totally disappointing and demoralizing. For what it’s worth, you’re a great person who’s overcome so much, even if the duds can’t see it. I’m sorry you’re hurting and lonely.

Yes. I don’t even think I typically have low self-esteem. I think I’m relatively attractive (obviously subjective!), I am pretty direct/clear with my motives/communication… I do think maybe I’m too nice or the universe knows I want it too much so it’s like nope!! You get screwed again hahaha 

I don’t know.

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23 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Yes. I don’t even think I typically have low self-esteem. I think I’m relatively attractive (obviously subjective!), I am pretty direct/clear with my motives/communication… I do think maybe I’m too nice or the universe knows I want it too much so it’s like nope!! You get screwed again hahaha 

I don’t know.

I really don't think it is you, or not just you. It's a common complaint right now in the dating world I'm seeing. 

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I watched a webinar on dating. The summary was there are 3 main reasons guys aren’t approaching women in person. And it’s very, very common for women not to be asked our IRL. Fear was one. Political climate was one (accused of harassment etc). I forgot the third. I think it was something like laziness/convenience… oh I’ll just use a dating app instead. 

The advice was to approach men yourself in certain locations and to visits those locations basically at the same time each time for a while. He didn’t go into all the details because he wants you to buy his program. 

I don’t think I’m invested enough to do all that. The last guy I met organically. And the one before was an old friend. It’s just hard to meet people organically. Well for one I’m rarely attracted to anyone I see. They aren’t in my age bracket or they’re wearing a wedding ring or are sporting the scruffy beards I hate etc. 

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I’m pretty convinced that guys are cowards. They want to keep a “good guy” label so they think if they just do less or push you away in some capacity you’ll be the one to either end things or bring it to a head. Then they’ll throw out the let’s be friends line without any real significance behind it. 

I did value them as a person/friend so I said if they were serious about friendship we could hang out later and if not that’s ok, too. The response was a like reaction. So you know, clear as mud. 

Google says you should give it time and gave a suggested formula for when to hang out again. So in my case that would be about 3 months. In 3 months we probably won’t have even been talking and reaching out randomly to hang out would seem weird. I don’t think I’d reach out. I’ve been rejected enough. 

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I have never wanted to remain friends with any of my exes. I simply don't see the point. Especially, the pretty short lived relationships. At times, I stayed friendly because we were in the same social circles but remaining friends made no sense to me. If I was romantically interested in you shifting that is no easy task and most friendships aren't worth the mental energy to make that shift.

Now that I've been married for 16 years and I only have eyes for dh and nothing is going to change that, I can certainly think of past boyfriends who I'd love to be friends with now because we shared so many interests and they'd fit into our friend group so well. But I'd never try to rekindle a friendship. If it happened organically I'd welcome it though.

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I do think it is a thing that guys would rather push the woman to actually say the words to end the relationship so they will just be a jerk, be distant, ghost you, and then when you confront them be all like if that’s what you want ok I guess we can just be friends. My high school dd is taking AP Psych and they actually discussed this as being super common in relationships. So it stinks but it is pretty common.

I hesitate to say this because it is super insulting to compare your dating life to my teenager but since I’m up close and personal to hers I will tell you that the guys she has been involved with totally do this. They are all into her. Then they aren’t but they make her end it. Then they tell people she dumped them like he is such a good guy and they don’t know why she did it. Now, I’m not comparing you as a grown woman to my teen dd but maybe the men you have been involved with are comparable to the immature boys she has encountered. 🤦‍♀️

I’m sorry. I don’t have anything to offer other than I do think it is a thing for a lot of guys to act that way. So aggravating. 

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3 hours ago, hjffkj said:

I have never wanted to remain friends with any of my exes. I simply don't see the point. Especially, the pretty short lived relationships. At times, I stayed friendly because we were in the same social circles but remaining friends made no sense to me. If I was romantically interested in you shifting that is no easy task and most friendships aren't worth the mental energy to make that shift.

Now that I've been married for 16 years and I only have eyes for dh and nothing is going to change that, I can certainly think of past boyfriends who I'd love to be friends with now because we shared so many interests and they'd fit into our friend group so well. But I'd never try to rekindle a friendship. If it happened organically I'd welcome it though.

Mostly I agree in it not making sense. But in this particular circumstance I was thinking we will likely cross paths again (though rarely) and we did both buy concert tickets to the same show in a few months so I’d maybe carpool if he reached out. But I’m just planning to go alone as I planned when I made the purchase. The tickets are not for assigned seats. Also it’s rare I meet anyone local to me that isn’t married and has similar taste in music etc. 

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6 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Mostly I agree in it not making sense. But in this particular circumstance I was thinking we will likely cross paths again (though rarely) and we did both buy concert tickets to the same show in a few months so I’d maybe carpool if he reached out. But I’m just planning to go alone as I planned when I made the purchase. The tickets are not for assigned seats. Also it’s rare I meet anyone local to me that isn’t married and has similar taste in music etc. 

Makes sense

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