Hive thoughts: CC, Sunday School

[lauraw4321]

Background: I’m a Christian. I live in the Deep South. My church recently disaffiliated with the UMC mostly over marriage equality. I disagree with the church’s stance on this. Church leadership made clear that there were differing views on that issue, but the staff were nonetheless unanimous in recommending disaffiliation. Further, they made clear all were welcome and divergent beliefs on this issue were welcome. My oldest DD recently came out as bi. She is also my child with the strongest faith. I understand and accept that some of my views/beliefs won’t align with most folks at the church but I feel it’s important to stay regardless. 
 

My church has been really pushing joining “life groups” (aka Sunday Schools). I’m very active as a volunteer (and have felt Holy Spirit calling to do that) but haven’t ever joined a class. 
 

DH and I tried a class. The people were kind. We even knew some folks. The lesson was fine. But. A guy had a coffee mug with the Gadsden Flag (don’t tread on me) on it. He was a long-standing member of the class. And a white man. The class was entirely white. 
 

I said that I don’t want to go back because of him. DH is fine going to a different class but thinks I’m stereotyping him. 
 

What say the Hive?

[Hyacinth]

I’m going to answer the question you asked about the man with the mug, but I’m guessing this thread is going to focus on your first paragraph as that seems more significant.
 

Would you be willing to engage the man in conversation? “I noticed your mug and I’m curious what that flag means to you?” The Gadsden flag is not a symbol of racism. Neither is a room full of white people. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Hyacinth

[prairiewindmomma]

—-

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by prairiewindmomma

[KSera]

I could have written most of your post, except not the Gasden snake part (and I would be shocked to see anyone with that flag at my church and it would be a red flag to me as well).  But, based on my experience, I’d listen hard to prariewindmomma. 

[TravelingChris]

Why is the Gadsden Flag a red flag?  We have a small one in our house, just like we have small American flag with thirteen stars and some other flags.  No, we do not have any mugs with the Gadsden flag.  But it is not a racist flag at all.  It is not an offensive flag like the Nazi flag or the Confederate battle flag.  We got that Gadsden Flag as a souvenir from NH.  

Now, my offensive man in my former SS class is a man who thinks his wife's death from cancer over 20 years ago was because the pastor then (who we do know since he was still the pastor when we joined the church) and others did not sincerely pray for her survival.  He misreads the Bible and has at least 2 times lectured people (including me, the one time) that our illnesses are due to our lack of faith.  The other woman stopped attending church- though she is a believer.  I have stopped attending the Sunday School he is in and avoid him as much as possible. 

[TexasProud]

Yes, I have to admit I guess I don't understand the racist connection with the Gasden flag.  The confederate flag, absolutely.  

[Katy]

The flag has been carried so much by the same groups using dog whistles that it’s currently controversial what it’s a symbol of. At the very least plenty of white supremacists use it frequently, but possibly more as a tea party symbol than a directly racist one. 

I’m not sure what the right answer is. I’d talk to your daughter about what she’d like to do. 

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

The flag has been carried so much by the same groups using dog whistles that it’s currently controversial what it’s a symbol of. At the very least plenty of white supremacists use it frequently, but possibly more as a tea party symbol than a directly racist one. 

Interesting.  Don't own any of those, but wasn't aware.  Thank you.  

[Pawz4me]

I would be uncomfortable enough about the guy with the mug that I likely wouldn't attend that class again, and I'd steer clear of him. It seems particularly hostile or messaging to use any sort of controversial symbol (and that flag/image certainly qualifies) in church or a church gathering. My conclusion would be that he likely believes in some extreme right wing ideology or that he's totally clueless, or a bully. Or some combo of those, bless his heart.

Mostly I'd listen to @prairiewindmomma. Church can be incredibly damaging.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Pawz4me

[lauraw4321]

@prairiewindmomma Not quoting. My oldest has the most connections/friends at our church and doesn’t want to move churches currently. I am very concerned about what you have conveyed and DH and I have spoken about whether this will be our place long term. The marriage issue isn’t preached about. It’s not (or at least I didn’t think it was) a “typical” white/evangelical southern church. I’ve never heard culture war type issues preached about with one exception and we no longer go to services where he preaches. There are many to chose from. DH and I have both thought that no church is perfect so we were making a reasonable choice to stay. I’m starting to more seriously consider. :::sigh:::

[lauraw4321]

6 hours ago, Hyacinth said:

Would you be willing to engage the man in conversation? “I noticed your mug and I’m curious what that flag means to you?” The Gadsden flag is not a symbol of racism. Neither is a room full of white people. 

I don’t have a relationship with him for that conversation to be anything other than a failure. He is a stranger. And I disagree re:the flag. 

[Terabith]

Gently, from someone who sent her kids to Catholic school through 6th and 8th grades because it was the best academic fit even though we weren’t Catholic and I thought my kids would be okay because we were heck yeah affirming at home and we attended an affirming church…they really, really weren’t, and my oldest kid, who had an incandescent beautiful faith, refuses to step foot in ANY church now and feels utterly betrayed by Christianity.  Academically, it was awesome, but the spiritual damage was severe, and I have a lot of grief around it.  

[lauraw4321]

5 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Why is the Gadsden Flag a red flag?  We have a small one in our house, just like we have small American flag with thirteen stars and some other flags.  No, we do not have any mugs with the Gadsden flag.  But it is not a racist flag at all.  It is not an offensive flag like the Nazi flag or the Confederate battle flag.  We got that Gadsden Flag as a souvenir from NH. 

The flag is closely associated with the confederacy. There are plenty of anti-federal government and racist people in NH. It’s a dog whistle and wouldn’t be hospitable to my Black neighbors.  I would never fly it or have it. 

[lauraw4321]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I would be uncomfortable enough about the guy with the mug that I likely wouldn't attend that class again, and I'd steer clear of him. It seems particularly hostile or messaging to use any sort of controversial symbol (and that flag/image certainly qualifies) in church or a church gathering. My conclusion would be that he likely believes in some extreme right wing ideology or that he's totally clueless, or a bully. Or some combo of those, bless his heart.

Mostly I'd listen to @prairiewindmomma. Church can be incredibly damaging.

Yes, Bless his heart. 

[Heartstrings]

7 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

hy is the Gadsden Flag a red flag?  We have a small one in our house, just like we have small American flag with thirteen stars and some other flags.  No, we do not have any mugs with the Gadsden flag.  But it is not a racist flag at all.  It is not an offensive flag like the Nazi flag or the Confederate battle flag.  W

It has been co opted, like upside pineapples, tiki torches, frogs, or Hawaiian shirts.   Is a pineapple inherently sexual? Of course not, that’s exactly why having one turned upside down is a *signal* to others in the know.   If I have tiki torches around my pool, that’s functional.  A tiki torch coffee mug might mean that I hate mosquitoes, but it could be being used to signal that one is part of a certain group.  
 

A Gadsden flag could mean that you like flags, like history, or that you are signaling that you are part of a group.  That can’t just be ignored.  

 

 It’s a little like rainbows.  What’s wrong with rainbows? Nothing.   Little girls like rainbows.  Noah’s ark stuff has rainbows.   They are also *currently* something that represents LGBT or ally ship.   Pretending otherwise is just silly.  
 

If I have a rainbow mug, it can be reasonably assumed in 2023 that I’m an ally to LGBT, or part of the community.  In 2023 a Gadsen flag mug can be reasonably assumed to mean one is part of or sympathetic to Christian Nationalism.  Are some people out there with rainbow mugs or shirts completely unaware of its connection? Sure.  Same with a Gadsen flag, I’m sure.  But it’s still a reasonable assumption. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Heartstrings

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

Gently, from someone who sent her kids to Catholic school through 6th and 8th grades because it was the best academic fit even though we weren’t Catholic and I thought my kids would be okay because we were heck yeah affirming at home and we attended an affirming church…they really, really weren’t, and my oldest kid, who had an incandescent beautiful faith, refuses to step foot in ANY church now and feels utterly betrayed by Christianity.  Academically, it was awesome, but the spiritual damage was severe, and I have a lot of grief around it.  

All this.

Attending a church where your child has to either consider the church wrong or her own feelings wrong almost always leads to either self hate or turning away from the church. Or both. 

Can I ask why you are staying with the church if they voted to leave the denomination you were aligned with, and became something you disagree with? Would you stay if they say, refused to marry interracial couples? Many Christians in history have said interracial marriage is against the Bible, so similar idea. 

[chiguirre]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

It has been co opted, like upside pineapples, tiki torches, frogs, or Hawaiian shirts.   Is a pineapple inherently sexual? Of course not, that’s exactly why having one turned upside down is a *signal* to others in the know.   If I have tiki torches around my pool, that’s functional.  A tiki torch coffee mug might mean that I hate mosquitoes, but it could be being used to signal that one is part of a certain group.  

This. I had to explain to Astroboy that he should not ever mention El Sapo Pepe at school when he used the character in a practice sentence during after schooling. To him, El Sapo Pepe is a silly preschool cartoon character with a frog friend named Juana. He had no idea that it's an avatar for the Boogaloo.

That was a whole 5 minute detour into the muckiest of swamps. How the heck do you give a short explanation of White Supremacism and the Great Replacement to a third grader without freaking him out, especially when he's the target? He needs to know this stuff so he can stay safe, but I don't want him to feel like he's in danger all the time either. Ugghhh, things have gotten so much worse in the ten years since my youngest was this age.

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

It has been co opted, like upside pineapples, tiki torches, frogs, or Hawaiian shirts.   Is a pineapple inherently sexual? Of course not, that’s exactly why having one turned upside down is a *signal* to others in the know.   If I have tiki torches around my pool, that’s functional.  A tiki torch coffee mug might mean that I hate mosquitoes, but it could be being used to signal that one is part of a certain group.  

Ok, off to google.  I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about...  Pineapples are sexual??  Wow...  I swear, if it wasn't for this group I would be pretty clueless.  I don't know most of the stuff most of you reference. 

[Heartstrings]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

Ok, off to google.  I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about...  Pineapples are sexual??  Wow...  I swear, if it wasn't for this group I would be pretty clueless.  I don't know most of the stuff most of you reference. 

Pineapples indicate, or were an indication that a married couple is up for exchanging partner’s sexually.  Swingers.  
 

[TexasProud]

Just now, Heartstrings said:

Pineapples indicate, or were an indication that a married couple is up for exchanging partner’s sexually.  Swingers.  
 

Yeah, I just googled it.  I had absolutely no idea.

To be honest, the culture is changing so rapidly, I feel like I enter a minefield of unknown references in here.  I kinda like being clueless to be honest. 

[Heartstrings]

Just now, TexasProud said:

Yeah, I just googled it.  I had absolutely no idea.

To be honest, the culture is changing so rapidly, I feel like I enter a minefield of unknown references in here.  I kinda like being clueless to be honest. 

The white nationalist change symbols frequently.  It gives them deniability and requires that they stay active in the groups to keep up, sort of a gamification.  It also helps them stay a step ahead of law enforcement.  It’s purposeful.  

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Pineapples indicate, or were an indication that a married couple is up for exchanging partner’s sexually.  Swingers.  
 

I think this one is not in the same category as the Gasden flag though. A lot of people aren’t going to be aware of the pineapple thing (I knew vaguely it meant something, but not what). The current Gasden flag associations would be more akin to not knowing a rainbow flag is currently associated with LGBTQ support. 

[TexasProud]

9 minutes ago, KSera said:

I think this one is not in the same category as the Gasden flag though. A lot of people aren’t going to be aware of the pineapple thing (I knew vaguely it meant something, but not what). The current Gasden flag associations would be more akin to not knowing a rainbow flag is currently associated with LGBTQ support. 

I guess I disagree. I don't watch the news.  I avoid all things Trump if possible.  I see nothing at all about white nationalism in my world except on here. 

[Heartstrings]

8 minutes ago, KSera said:

I think this one is not in the same category as the Gasden flag though. A lot of people aren’t going to be aware of the pineapple thing (I knew vaguely it meant something, but not what). The current Gasden flag associations would be more akin to not knowing a rainbow flag is currently associated with LGBTQ support. 

I agree.   I was using the pineapples/swingers more in line with the argument that Gadsen Flags aren’t racist because they have not historically been associated with racism, in the same way that the Confederate flag has been.  Pineapples have also not historically been associated with sex either.  But in 2023 both have new associations.  The fact that 10, 30, 100 years ago it was not so does not mean it can’t be so today.  

[Heartstrings]

2 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I guess I disagree. I don't watch the news.  I avoid all things Trump if possible.  I see nothing at all about white nationalism in my world except on here. 

A good rule of thumb- if it was something used as a symbol in the Revolution or the Confederacy it is now being used to represent white nationalists.  

[TexasProud]

Just now, Heartstrings said:

A good rule of thumb- if it was something used as a symbol in the Revolution or the Confederacy it is now being used to represent white nationalists.  

Confederacy. Fine.  But Revolution???  That is just sad and they shouldn't be allowed to co-op stuff like that. 

[Heartstrings]

5 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Confederacy. Fine.  But Revolution???  That is just sad and they shouldn't be allowed to co-op stuff like that. 

I wish there was a way to prevent it.  Many of them see themselves in a new revolution against a tyrannical government that they must over throw.  If you know how they are thinking you can see the (perverted) logic in using those symbols. 
 

Also-call backs to Germany, Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece. Grace and Rome are seen as the height of white purity, culture and control.   Germany seems fairly obvious.  

Edited August 30, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Hyacinth]

Good freaking grief. 
So instead of asking the man about the significance of the flag, many of you are content to assume he’s a Christian Nationalist racist? Because you just knoooowwww what that flag reaaalllly means to white guys like him?

OP, your husband is right: you’re stereotyping. 

[Hyacinth]

20 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

A good rule of thumb- if it was something used as a symbol in the Revolution or the Confederacy it is now being used to represent white nationalists.  

Better rule of thumb: Don’t assume motivations. 

[KSera]

 

7 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

Good freaking grief. 
So instead of asking the man about the significance of the flag, many of you are content to assume he’s a Christian Nationalist racist? Because you just knoooowwww what that flag reaaalllly means to white guys like him?

OP, your husband is right: you’re stereotyping. 

People don’t usually display a flag (either outside or on apparel, coffee cups, etc) without knowing what the flag means. If someone cares enough about that flag to choose a coffee cup with it on there, it would be much more surprising than not for him to not know that it currently has Far Right, White Nationalist associations. That’s not brand new. It’s like someone wearing a confederate flag shirt and then trying to claim they didn’t know it had racist connotations. 

[Heartstrings]

Just now, Hyacinth said:

Better rule of thumb: Don’t assume motivations. 

I guess we can all just pretend that white nationalist don’t exist and pretend to be ignorant of the symbology they use to signal their ideology to others.  Why not?

 

[Lecka]

I would want to change to an actively affirming church.  
 

If things blow up there, I would not want to be associated with it.

 

It would be a great concern to me.

 

However — I am 100% someone who has been selectively exposed to people who had things go poorly.  I have attended an actively affirming church previously where several families were attending, but their adult child wasn’t, and they hadn’t realized thing were going to blow up at their previous church, until something happened.  So I have had exposure to that.  But not to people where things went well and they never left their previous church over it.  
 

Separately — why is your church disaffiliating then?  There is a rumor that a large church is my state is disaffiliating so the pastor can make it into his own personal mega church.  
 

That’s obviously biased, and I hope things work out.

 

I am from a background where independent churches can have a lot of drama, church splits, major issues with leadership transitions, etc.  There are advantages to an independent church, too, but there are drawbacks and I’ve been burned by the drawbacks.  
 

It will be a change over time to be an independent church.  
 

If your church joins another denomination (or however it would be called) then for me personally that would be different, if I liked the church council.  
 

But I just don’t think I will do an independent church again in my life.  Unless there are special circumstances and then I would, I would do it for a family member or if somehow that was my only option.  But in general — no way.  
 

Also — to be fair I can name some independent churches in my town, that have had successful leadership transitions, and navigated issues in a good way.  But 20 years ago I could not have said “that church is going to be one that makes it.”  I have been surprised both ways.  I think for another person the benefits of an independent church would be worth it, or just a specific church without caring about that.  But I think I would worry about innocuous things because I have been through a church split as an adult.  

[KSera]

5 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

Better rule of thumb: Don’t assume motivations. 

Where’s the line? Are there any flags it’s okay to assume motivations regarding, or does anything go?

[Heartstrings]

3 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

Better rule of thumb: Don’t assume motivations. 

Saying that people and groups who are far right white nationalists are using certain symbols is a statement of fact.  It assumes no motivation.  It is conveying information.  Someone asked why the Gadsen flag was being seen a certain way, I answered the question.  
 

I have no idea about this man in particular.  He is either ignorant of the current day meaning behind a mug he chose, purchased and brought to church or he is using it in its current connotation.  It’s an either/or.  Given that the symbol has been co-opted by white nationalists it is REASONABLE to assume his use is purposeful.  That could be wrong, but it’s reasonable.  If he wishes not to be associated with that ideology he should get a new cup.  

Unfortunately, if he is using it to show his solidarity with that movement asking him about it could be dangerous.  It would be unfortunate if he was just a cute little history buff being wrongly perceived, but that’s the way it is.

[Hyacinth]

1 minute ago, Heartstrings said:

I guess we can all just pretend that white nationalist don’t exist and pretend to be ignorant of the symbology they use to signal their ideology to others.  Why not?

 

Yeah, cuz that’s exactly what I’m saying 🙄.
 

In your opinion, is it possible to be patriotic—to love this country and the concepts of freedom and liberty—without being racist? 
 

I understand that many of those symbols have been co-opted. That’s a shame. 
 

But that awful group doesn’t get to define the meaning for EVERYONE who enjoys/wears/appreciates those symbols and what the stand for. 
 

Not everyone is aware of the secret (and the not-so-secret) meanings. 
 

I’m simply suggesting people stop assuming the worst. Have a conversation. Maybe he is a raging racist and OP would be wise to avoid him. But—jeesh—is it POSSIBLE he isn’t? 

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, Heartstrings said:

Saying that people and groups who are far right white nationalists are using certain symbols is a statement of fact.  It assumes no motivation.  It is conveying information.  Someone asked why the Gadsen flag was being seen a certain way, I answered the question.  
 

I have no idea about this man in particular.  He is either ignorant of the current day meaning behind a mug he chose, purchased and brought to church or he is using it in its current connotation.  It’s an either/or.  

Honestly.  I love all things American history.  Before seeing this, I might have bought the mug.  Now that I know, I obviously wouldn't. But if I wasn't on this board, I would have had no idea at all.  I hate to thing what someone would have assumed about me... 

But back to OP..  I probably would not attend the church that is so at odds with your beliefs. Forgetting the guy about the mug.  Just that alone if I were in your shoes would be enough.

[Hyacinth]

3 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Saying that people and groups who are far right white nationalists are using certain symbols is a statement of fact.  It assumes no  motivation  

You’re assuming the man’s motivation in carrying a mug with the symbol. 

[Heartstrings]

9 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

your opinion, is it possible to be patriotic—to love this country and the concepts of freedom and liberty—without being racist? 

Of course it is.  But one group  has decided that they “own” patriotism and all of the symbols, making it troublesome for the rest of us.  They even co-opted the word patriot itself!
Which is weird because most of those “patriots” want to over throw the country they purport to love so much, so let’s not pretend that this whole thing isn’t messy.  
 

 

It’s also quite possible to love ones country, and it’s ideals, while NOT displaying flags and symbols on every item and stitch of clothing one owns.   How big of a flag you fly from your pick up does not indicate how much you love your country.  

Edited August 30, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Hyacinth]

10 minutes ago, KSera said:

Where’s the line? Are there any flags it’s okay to assume motivations regarding, or does anything go?

That’s an interesting question. 
I think a rainbow flag that says “Pride” is pretty obvious. 
I think a springtime flag with a cross that says “He is risen” is also obvious. 
Symbols or logos that five minutes ago meant one thing and now mean something else because a minority of people are trying to make it so? I’d give that some grace and further exploration. 

[Hyacinth]

5 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

Of course it is.  But one group  has decided that they “own” patriotism and all of the symbols, making it troublesome for the rest of us.  Which is weird because most of those “patriots” want to over throw the country they purport to love so much, so let’s not pretend that this whole thing isn’t messy.  
 

 

It’s also quite possible to love ones country, and it’s ideals, while NOT displaying flags and symbols on every item and stitch of clothing one owns.   How big of a flag you fly from your pick up does not indicate how much you love your country.  

Agree on all points!

ETA: Actually, I don’t agree with all the points.
 

It seems that YOU have decided one group “owns” patriotism and all of the symbols. I reject that. They can use them—free speech and all that—but I’m not giving them that much power in my brain or my heart. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Hyacinth

[Heartstrings]

6 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

You’re assuming the man’s motivation in carrying a mug with the symbol. 

I was explaining the symbol. 

[Danae]

2 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

That’s an interesting question. 
I think a rainbow flag that says “Pride” is pretty obvious. 
I think a springtime flag with a cross that says “He is risen” is also obvious. 
Symbols or logos that five minutes ago meant one thing and now mean something else because a minority of people are trying to make it so? I’d give that some grace and further exploration. 

The organized co-opting of Revolutionary War symbols goes back (at least) to the Tea Party movement in 2009. 

[KSera]

19 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

In your opinion, is it possible to be patriotic—to love this country and the concepts of freedom and liberty—without being racist? 
 

I understand that many of those symbols have been co-opted. That’s a shame. 

But that awful group doesn’t get to define the meaning for EVERYONE who enjoys/wears/appreciates those symbols and what the stand for. 

Of course one can love their country without being racist (the very question is eye brow raising actually as far as why anyone would even pose it, but that’s a separate thread).

Would you apply the logic of your second paragraph to people wearing or flying a Confederate flag? 

16 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Honestly.  I love all things American history. 

I bet you don’t love ALL things American History though. I expect there are quite a few things you would draw the line at. 

11 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

Symbols or logos that five minutes ago meant one thing and now mean something else because a minority of people are trying to make it so? I’d give that some grace and further exploration. 

It goes way back farther than just recently. It was mostly forgotten about since the Revolution up until the beginnings of the Tea Party movement in the 70s. That’s when it started to be seen again, and then even more so with the growth of that in the early 2000s and then it started to be used by White Nationalist groups (enough that there was a lawsuit in 2016 about whether it constitutes racial harassment for someone to display it at work) and then it took off further with the Trump movement and in 2020 was flown in the Capitol during the insurrection. 
 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by KSera

[Heartstrings]

7 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

Symbols or logos that five minutes ago meant one thing and now mean something else because a minority of people are trying to make it so? I’d give that some grace and further exploration. 

I do agree, which is why I write what I did in a balanced way.  I said several times that it might be what this man in particular is doing, but that white nationalists are using the symbol in such and such a way.   Apparently recognizing nuance didn’t mean anything here.  
 

It is an unfortunate reality though that engaging in a conversation on this could be dangerous.  *If* this man is a white nationalist, far enough in to be using the symbology, he could be dangerous.  That can’t be ignored when encouraging conversation with someone using these symbols.  

[ArteHaus]

My husband has a “don’t tread on me” hat sitting on the dashboard of his beloved Land Rover. He is…black. He is ex-military. The phrase pertains to individual freedoms, not racism…or really even nationalism, but a preservation of individual rights and freedoms, not to be encroached upon by government or society. 

[wathe]

I would not engage, and I would not go back.

I see this as basic situational awareness.  When one perceives a danger sign, one have to doesn't stick around or probe to find out if the signal means what they think it means.  

[pinball]

7 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

If* this man is a white nationalist, far enough in to be using the symbology, he could be dangerous.

Yes, everyone, be careful. He might be an FBI agent.

[Heartstrings]

Just now, pinball said:

Yes, everyone, be careful. He might be an FBI agent.

Sure. 

[kirstenhill]

40 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

People don’t usually display a flag (either outside or on apparel, coffee cups, etc) without knowing what the flag means. If someone cares enough about that flag to choose a coffee cup with it on there, it would be much more surprising than not for him to not know that it currently has Far Right, White Nationalist associations. That’s not brand new. It’s like someone wearing a confederate flag shirt and then trying to claim they didn’t know it had racist connotations. 

This has nothing to do with what the OP should do regarding her church, but count me too among the people who didn't know that this flag had right wing/racist connotations (I've only seen one IRL a few times, and I thought it was mainly a historical thing).  People sometimes buy things or are given things because they like how it looks, without knowing what it means.  Yeah, it is more likely that the guy is signaling his beliefs...but I can see one of my kids when they were younger choosing a mug with the flag because the snakes looked cool.  I would have let them, and maybe used it myself because it was in the house, because like I said, I had no idea its meaning.  I once bought my DH a shirt at a thrift store that I thought just looked cool.  It turned out it was advertising a kind of alcohol (Fireball whisky) and I had no idea because it didn't actually say "whisky" anywhere in big enough letters to read.  He knew and didn't really want to wear it because he is not an "advertising whisky on a shirt" sort of a guy.  

I guess I think people should be slightly slower to jump to conclusions about someone just from a mug or t-shirt they have. 

[wathe]

I am usually a benefit-of-the-doubt kind of person.  

But not for situations that signal serious danger to me or my family. This reads as one of those situations.  I'd be out of there.