Lost submarine

[Eos]

9 hours ago, Vintage81 said:

it sounds like there are underwater microphones all over down there.

They are on subs.  It's part of the mission for sub crews to detect and decipher sounds throughout the oceans, and there are sub engineers on land who do nothing but work on making submarines more silent.

(Mom of nuclear sub engineer)

[Vintage81]

56 minutes ago, Eos said:

They are on subs.  It's part of the mission for sub crews to detect and decipher sounds throughout the oceans, and there are sub engineers on land who do nothing but work on making submarines more silent.

(Mom of nuclear sub engineer)

That sounds really interesting! ☺️

[fairfarmhand]

There’s also an array of hydrophones under the ocean that were used to track subs in the Cold War. They’re used now for research and stuff. I read an article about the loneliest whale that talked about it a few weeks ago.

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2023/06/navy-ocean-monitoring-sonar-detected-implosion-of-lost-submarine.html#:~:text=The Navy for decades has,hydrophones on the sea floor.

[katilac]

On 6/22/2023 at 5:54 AM, regentrude said:

Baby in well is another good example. 

In addition to wanting a happy ending and the race against time, another factor is that humans need to personalize the story. Every hit film and TV show has a limited number of characters. We can become invested when there are 1, 5, 13 people at risk- but hundreds and thousands are perhaps too abstract for the same captivating response.

Yes, this is a well-known bit of psychology, frequently used by authors, journalists, and fundraisers. 

One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic. This is why health charities focus on the stories of individuals, and why they will always put a kid front and center, even when 99% of people with X disease are adults. 

Individual people are more compelling than dire statistics, and kids are more compelling than adults. 

On 6/22/2023 at 5:58 PM, Selkie said:

I was very sad to read that the 19 year old told a relative he was terrified and didn't want to go, but was doing it to please his father. Ugh, so heartbreaking.

I am hoping this is not true, and that he was happy and excited and never knew what was coming. 

On 6/22/2023 at 6:28 AM, HomeAgain said:

And yet here are two rich Pakistan men, blowing their money to sit in a wonky submersible.

I think it would be more accurate to say a rich Pakistani man and his son. That poor kid was only 19, a mere boy to my old eyes, 

And perhaps only fair to note that Shahzada Dawood, the dad, was a noted philanthropist who was involved in many efforts to promote education and social change in Pakistan. He didn't just donate money, either, but put time and energy into these projects. He also had a good reputation for being fair and socially responsible in business. 

I mean, I didn't know the man, but that seems to be the overwhelming consensus. He was a person, with a family who loves and misses him, not a cardboard cutout that existed to represent stupid, selfish rich people. 

More than one thing can be true. Dawood spent a whole lot of money on the Titan excursion, and Dawood spent a bunch more money helping the people of his country. 

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

 

I think it would be more accurate to say a rich Pakistani man and his son. That poor kid was only 19, a mere boy to my old eyes, 

They are being described as Pakistani-British. I assume they had dual citizenship.  The son was a student at Glasgow University in Scotland. 

[katilac]

2 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

They are being described as Pakistani-British. I assume they had dual citizenship.  The son was a student at Glasgow University in Scotland. 

Yes, they did have dual citizenship, but they were born in Pakistan, the family business is based in Pakistan, and I was contrasting his philanthropic efforts in Pakistan as a contrast to the poster saying that he was a rich guy from Pakistan blowing his money on a dubious adventure while Pakistani refugees suffered. 

I felt like that didn't paint a complete picture, and was a bit of unnecessary roughness for a man who died a day ago. 

[Laura Corin]

2 hours ago, katilac said:

Yes, they did have dual citizenship, but they were born in Pakistan, the family business is based in Pakistan, and I was contrasting his philanthropic efforts in Pakistan as a contrast to the poster saying that he was a rich guy from Pakistan blowing his money on a dubious adventure while Pakistani refugees suffered. 

I felt like that didn't paint a complete picture, and was a bit of unnecessary roughness for a man who died a day ago. 

Oh absolutely.  I was just adding to the full picture.  

[SeaConquest]

On 6/23/2023 at 8:31 AM, Jean in Newcastle said:

It also appeased the people breathlessly watching the media countdown.  Can you imagine the social cost of them not continuing to do all they can to search?  And before someone says that's only for billionaires, I don't think so.  We've already mentioned other situations like the Thai kids in a cave and kids in holes/wells.  This is a time when organizations as well as individuals are "tried" on social media and other forms of public opinion. 

My friends were rescued by the US military while at sea. People got seriously bent out of shape over the cost of the rescue and they were just average folks. Rescues are just something that the US military does in our jurisdictional waters. We do it for everyone. 

Also, no billionaire wealth required for the mob to wish you dead just because you ran into some bad luck. I wish I were exagerrating. The threats people made to them in the aftermath were horrific. Their every parenting decision was a literal national news story for an entire week. But for the grace of Gd, go I.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/08/us/2-tots-a-sailboat-and-a-storm-over-parenting.html

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/525/call-for-help

 

[ktgrok]

Can I just say, do NOT read about what happens to the body during an implosion like that. Especially do not read it while eating a tamale for breakfast. 

[SeaConquest]

The worst for me is the 19 yr old. An aunt was quoted as saying that he was terrified and only went because it was Father's Day. It would be easy to judge the Dad for putting his kid in harm's way, but from I've read, it doesn't seem that this CEO was being totally upfront with people about the risks -- claiming he had collabs with NASA, Boeing, and the University of WA that likely oversold the safety, especially to the lay public.

[marbel]

12 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

My friends were rescued by the US military while at sea. People got seriously bent out of shape over the cost of the rescue and they were just average folks. Rescues are just something that the US military does in our jurisdictional waters. We do it for everyone. 

Also, no billionaire wealth required for the mob to wish you dead just because you ran into some bad luck. I wish I were exagerrating. The threats people made to them in the aftermath were horrific. Their every parenting decision was a literal national news story for an entire week. But for the grace of Gd, go I.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/08/us/2-tots-a-sailboat-and-a-storm-over-parenting.html

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/525/call-for-help

 

Thanks for posting this. I'm glad everything turned out well for this family. 

People grumbling about this or any other rescue should consider what they or their loved ones might do in the future that could end in with them needing search and rescue.  

A total aside, but I wonder what the people who actually do search and rescue think about things like this? Is it "geez what were these people thinking?" or it is more like "this is what I've trained for and I'm glad I'm able to do it." 

[Danae]

19 minutes ago, marbel said:

 

A total aside, but I wonder what the people who actually do search and rescue think about things like this? Is it "geez what were these people thinking?" or it is more like "this is what I've trained for and I'm glad I'm able to do it." 

I bet it’s both.

[SeaConquest]

1 hour ago, marbel said:

Thanks for posting this. I'm glad everything turned out well for this family. 

People grumbling about this or any other rescue should consider what they or their loved ones might do in the future that could end in with them needing search and rescue.  

A total aside, but I wonder what the people who actually do search and rescue think about things like this? Is it "geez what were these people thinking?" or it is more like "this is what I've trained for and I'm glad I'm able to do it." 

The parajumpers and Coast Guard rescuers that I've known were all very professional and super nonjudgy. If you do dangerous stuff (like rescues) for a living, you know that, being prepared helps, but s**t happens. They also expressed seeing the rescues as keeping their skills sharp. 

As for my friends, they are wonderful parents, who always give of themselves (both do tons of volunteer work/community service; the Dad is former Navy and volunteers in high-risk, search and rescue himself in the Mammoth area, where they now live). We know them through the sailing/cruising community. We both had our babies in Mexico, a few months apart (Lyra was born in Feb; Ronen in August, 2013 at the same hospital in Puerto Vallarta).

They were cleared to leave for the South Pacific by Lyra's doctor. Lyra had been on antibiotics and the doc said she was fine. They got 900 miles from Mexico and Lyra relapsed. They had an offshore medical kit onboard, but nothing was helping. Then, their boat got hit by a rogue wave and when they tried to use their SAT phone, the SAT company had (unknown to them) just changed their SIM card and mailed the new one to their address in San Diego. So, they had no choice but to pull the EPIRB (an emergency beacon), which they knew would likely summon a rescue, but also would require them to sink their home and their dreams of circumnavigation with the girls (you cannot just leave a sailboat out in the middle of the ocean, lest someone run into it, so they had to pull the seacocks on their home and sink it). 😞   

ETA: Then, after sinking their home, they get on the Navy ship that picked them up and are told that their entire life has been turned into a media circus and their parenting decisions are now the subject of NYT op-eds. Can you imagine? 

Edited June 24, 2023 by SeaConquest

[vonfirmath]

On 6/24/2023 at 3:38 PM, SeaConquest said:

The worst for me is the 19 yr old. An aunt was quoted as saying that he was terrified and only went because it was Father's Day. It would be easy to judge the Dad for putting his kid in harm's way, but from I've read, it doesn't seem that this CEO was being totally upfront with people about the risks -- claiming he had collabs with NASA, Boeing, and the University of WA that likely oversold the safety, especially to the lay public.

I think the aunt spoke out of turn -- maybe wanting to grab a little of this frame?

ESP since mom is now coming out and definitely contradicting what she said.

IF this sort of thing were to be said, it needed to come from mom, not aunt. There was no good that could come from aunt jumping in with such information. 

[Carol in Cal.]

https://people.com/sons-warning-titan-sub-safety-saved-him-father-7552962?utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR0E_vrbc8XMbZ_ylHtwPJxrw3cTvHMn9kWQExVJ5Hf8KgVw3jxrqFJo6Rg

[Corraleno]

I've seen that kid in interviews claiming that he totally warned his dad, "I knew it was going to implode, there were so many red flags, it was obviously unsafe, blah blah blah..." and I call BS. This is the 20 yr old son of a billionaire, whose own "businesses" include crypto and cannabis, who brags about his Gucci clothes and poses in front of Rolls Royces flashing gang signs. But he knew all about the dangers of carbon fiber hulls and totally predicted the Titan would implode?

The dad posted some of the texts between himself and Stockton Rush, where he tells Rush that his son and the son's friend have some safety concerns. Turns out the son and his friend were worried that a giant squid or sperm whale might attack and damage the hull, lol! In his last text to Rush, the dad says they're still waiting to see how the dates work out for the May dive, but "if not this year, then next year."

[marbel]

30 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I've seen that kid in interviews claiming that he totally warned his dad, "I knew it was going to implode, there were so many red flags, it was obviously unsafe, blah blah blah..." and I call BS. This is the 20 yr old son of a billionaire, whose own "businesses" include crypto and cannabis, who brags about his Gucci clothes and poses in front of Rolls Royces flashing gang signs. But he knew all about the dangers of carbon fiber hulls and totally predicted the Titan would implode?

The dad posted some of the texts between himself and Stockton Rush, where he tells Rush that his son and the son's friend have some safety concerns. Turns out the son and his friend were worried that a giant squid or sperm whale might attack and damage the hull, lol! In his last text to Rush, the dad says they're still waiting to see how the dates work out for the May dive, but "if not this year, then next year."

What a weird thing for the dad to do. I mean, it's all weird, sure, but to publicly shame your son like that? Maybe shame isn't the right word. Show your son to be a fool to the whole world? 

[Corraleno]

27 minutes ago, marbel said:

What a weird thing for the dad to do. I mean, it's all weird, sure, but to publicly shame your son like that? Maybe shame isn't the right word. Show your son to be a fool to the whole world? 

I don't think shaming was his intention, I think he just thought he was providing evidence that they really did have the chance to go on this dive and ended up not going, in case people thought he was making that up. The screenshot I posted was just one of several he posted, showing the conversations he had with Rush. He posted the texts 4 days ago, so maybe he didn't realize the extent to which his son was going to stretch the truth about his "concerns" in subsequent interviews.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Corraleno

[livetoread]

So often I'm reminded that it doesn't necessarily take smarts or even common sense to make obscene amounts of money. All of that is just so cringey - the father, the kid - all of it.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

Well Stockton Rush himself doesn’t sound particularly classy, calling people uninformed. Or maybe I just hate condenscending people.

I’d probably be researching giant squid too. 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I've seen that kid in interviews claiming that he totally warned his dad, "I knew it was going to implode, there were so many red flags, it was obviously unsafe, blah blah blah..." and I call BS. This is the 20 yr old son of a billionaire, whose own "businesses" include crypto and cannabis, who brags about his Gucci clothes and poses in front of Rolls Royces flashing gang signs. But he knew all about the dangers of carbon fiber hulls and totally predicted the Titan would implode?

The dad posted some of the texts between himself and Stockton Rush, where he tells Rush that his son and the son's friend have some safety concerns. Turns out the son and his friend were worried that a giant squid or sperm whale might attack and damage the hull, lol! In his last text to Rush, the dad says they're still waiting to see how the dates work out for the May dive, but "if not this year, then next year."

Keeping in mind that is the Dad’s interpretation of the son’s fears not the son’s actual words. (Not that I know anything about him, just trying to be fair). 

[bookbard]

The whole story of "the 19 yr old didn't want to go" seems to be false - interview with the mother today saying that she gave up her spot on the submarine to him as he wanted to do rubix cube under the ocean or something.