online schooling options

[Homeschoolmom4412]

Hello, I would like to know what online schooling options you have used for your students?

There are so many options such as time4learning, Liberty, Accellus, what do you use or have used to outsource coursework in the middle school and highschool years?
I would like my older students to be independent.

[Farrar]

I find many of the options you mentioned to be low academic quality. We mostly preferred live online courses taught by humans.

I teach at Aim Academy so obviously I'm a little biased, but my kid took one of his best online courses there with AP English Lang. My other son took a great course at Online G3.

I work with lots of homeschoolers so I hear about a lot of online classes. Other providers I often recommend include Blue Tent and PA Homeschoolers. If you're interested in courses from a Christian worldview, there are many options for that as well like Potters School and Wilson Hill.

[ScoutTN]

Agree with Farrar that the providers you’ve mentioned are weak academically. With one exception, we only used live online courses. There are a host of excellent options, many of which have forum members as instructors! 

We have had excellent experiences with Wilson Hill, Classical Learning Resource Center, Roy Speed, Center for Lit,  and the House of Humane Letters.

We had a good, not great, experience with Write at Home, because it is asynchronous. 

[ScoutTN]

Also, a word about independence in older kids. This does not happen magically at a certain age. It takes a lot of training and scaffolding, learning from mistakes (parent’s as well as student’s!)  along the way.
 

Online courses are not parent-free! You will need to help, monitor, and be involved to some degree, possibly a large degree. And kids are all different; one will be more independent academically at 14 than a sibling is at 17. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by ScoutTN

[CAtoVA]

We have had quite good experiences with Open Tent Academy, IEW online, Home2Teach (writing), Lantern English (writing), Veritas Academy, and some excellent providers on Outschool.

We have had moderately good experiences so far with Blue Tent Academy and Aim Academy. I am willing to try more classes at BTA and AA; this has been our experience thus far. 

With The Potter's School, the teachers and classes were fine, but the admin and general policies are not. This upcoming school year, my children are trying classes at Big River Academy, Athena's Academy, Online G3, and My Fun Science for the first time. 

I have never tried Time4Learning or Acellus. I have not heard good things about either provider, but I do not know anything about them personally.

[Farrar]

It's surprising to me that given everything that happened with Acellus a couple months ago and the company's nasty remarks about homeschoolers and their own user base, that anyone would seriously consider them at this point. But I guess their ad budget can overcome anything.

[Clemsondana]

I teach many classes myself, and we do others at co-op.  The only online providers that we've used are Derek Owens, Fundafunda (full transparency - I teach there, and many of the teachers are local people who teach at our co-op - we take their classes live, but if the co-op schedule doesn't work, we sometimes take them online), and the community college for DE.  

All of our online classes have been reasonably taught.  But, the experience and independence vary by kid.  Some have tight deadlines and others are more self-paced.  Kids interact with those differently.  One of my kids was able to be very independent by sometime in middle school, and the occasional 'Is your work done?' was enough to keep kid on track.  My other does very little with a self-paced class unless there are parent-set deadlines and check-ins to make sure that the work is done every week.  Kid doesn't do a great job of managing time when there are multiple deadlines, so I have to help kid think through things like 'you can't do a week's worth of math and read 1/2 of a book for English in one day'.  I don't think either of my kids could have been fully independent when starting middle school, but I started working towards autonomy in elementary and hand over control gradually as the kids get older and are ready for it.  

[jplain]

The pinned posts at the top of this forum include lots of links to online providers.  We've used and liked many:

• Well Trained Mind Academy for writing, literature, and upper level French
• CLRC for Russian and upper level Spanish
• Sr. Gamache (funclase.com) and Sr. Leven (https://sites.google.com/site/spanishlearningonline) for high school Spanish 1-4
• Art of Problem Solving for math
• Fundafunda for Scratch & Python programming
• Clover Valley for chemistry
• Clover Creek for physics
• Aim Academy for history and writing
• Out of state public online academies in Nebraska and Virginia for courses we couldn't find elsewhere.  Not the most amazing experiences, but they were reasonably priced and got the job done.

[Roadrunner]

18 hours ago, Farrar said:

It's surprising to me that given everything that happened with Acellus a couple months ago and the company's nasty remarks about homeschoolers and their own user base, that anyone would seriously consider them at this point. But I guess their ad budget can overcome anything.

What did I miss?! 

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

What did I miss?! 

https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/725666-acelluspower-homeschool-tutor-mode-disaster/#comment-9406523

[saw]

DS had a very good experience with CLRC (history and poetry) and ChemAdvantage (not live classes but still very good). We are going to try a fulltime online school in the fall for the IB program. 

[Roadrunner]

We loved CLRC lit courses. I think AoPS, Bluetent, CLRC, WTMA are all excellent. 
 

and holy macaroni about Acellus. I can’t believe public schools are using it. 

[maize]

My 9th grader used MiaPrep for some of her classes this year and was happy with it.

[stripe]

I don’t think children can be independent or teach themselves all subjects, generally speaking.

If you have a tutor or a class for your child, then the child isn’t “independent,” but the parent isn’t teaching. You will still have to help, though.

I have had good experiences with CLRC’s Mrs Carman, Blue Tent’s Mrs Hilton, and Mrs Seboly from Clover Creek Physics. Live classes, engage teachers, good assignments, attentive feedback.

I recommend against anything that is watching videos and doing multiple choice questions or otherwise having a lifeless experience. It doesn’t turn out well. 

[AmandaVT]

DS is enrolled in the cohort program at WTMA, and we really like their classes. They're live, rigorous academics, great teacher support - no complaints! He's taken math through AOPS and liked that as well. 

[Green Bean]

We've had success with BJU online courses. I still had to read papers and do a little grading.

https://www.bjupresshomeschool.com/

Not everyone can afford live online or otherwise classes so I am glad other options exist.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Green Bean

[CAtoVA]

Oh, yes, I forgot to mention FundaFunda. My son took their Personal finance class two years ago and hands-down it was one of the best online classes we have ever taken. The curriculum was (is) creative, complete, and thoroughly engaging. AND the cost is criminally low!

Edited June 8, 2023 by CAtoVA

[chiguirre]

My dd graduated from Memoria Press Online Academy in 2021. We both thought her classes were well run and she got a good high school education that still allowed time for her to dual enroll in our local CC and finish her AA concurrently. However, I have heard that the new headmaster is not as organized as the previous one and that the quality of MPOA classes has declined. There's also an entrance exam that may be a factor in whether or not the program is suitable for your student. You also need to carefully consider the teacher's background and the assigned texts. We eliminated a couple of options because we didn't agree with the political slant that the course would take. OTOH, dd had some truly excellent teachers (Mr. Maycock, really good high school math teachers who were moonlighting, a PhD candidate who was a former Army Captain, and a priest) that you wouldn't get at a regular high school.

Before doing the high school diploma program with MPOA, dd took several classes at WTMA and they were excellent, especially the AOPS based math classes. We went with MPOA because of their complete diploma program and the fact that they had experience with a B&M school (Highlands), their specific course offerings (Henle Latin, the logic/rhetoric sequence and separate lit and comp classes) and a previous good experience in an online class. It sounds like WTMA might be more like a unified school rather than an assortment of individual classes now. That wasn't the case 6 years ago. That probably would have swung dd's decision their way.

[ScoutTN]

We know several families who have really enjoyed courses with Schole.

[teachermom2834]

My dd just finished her freshman year at a private high school. She used mostly online classes in middle school and was extremely well prepared for high school both in terms of content and being able to handle the administrative side of things. She used mostly Memoria Press Online Academy (although see above about changes in leadership and I am pretty sure we would not still be there if she was still home). We also used WTMA with both her and her older brother with good results. 
 

One class that proved really effective for us was French 1 from AIM Academy. That wasn’t something on my plans but my dd requested it in 8th grade. She easily tested into French 2 at her high school and the teacher actually pushed a little on the placement meeting she had with her because she considered skipping her to French 3. She was well beyond the rest of her French 2 class. Now, this is also a reflection on the weakness of the French program at the school before this new teacher arrived this year but the AIM class is definitely solid and set my dd up with a love of the subject and a good foundation. 

[MagistraKennedy]

Very good experiences with :
Memoria Academy (MPOA)
Schole Academy (Aquinas House for us)
True North Homeschool Academy

All of these are live classes, which is my children's preference. 

 

[MagistraKennedy]

On 5/28/2023 at 8:09 PM, ScoutTN said:

Also, a word about independence in older kids. This does not happen magically at a certain age. It takes a lot of training and scaffolding, learning from mistakes (parent’s as well as student’s!)  along the way.
 

Online courses are not parent-free! You will need to help, monitor, and be involved to some degree, possibly a large degree. And kids are all different; one will be more independent academically at 14 than a sibling is at 17. 

Hear, hear! This is a mistake I've seen parents make SO many times. Online does not mean completely hands off. In our experience, it's been a lot of two steps forward, one step back sort of situations. 

[cintinative]

1 hour ago, MagistraKennedy said:

True North Homeschool Academy


 

Could you share what classes your kids have taken? The last time I asked about this provider, which was years ago, I couldn't find anyone who had used them.  Thanks!

 

[MagistraKennedy]

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

Could you share what classes your kids have taken? The last time I asked about this provider, which was years ago, I couldn't find anyone who had used them.  Thanks!

 

Absolutely! My daughter took Chemistry with Dr Kristen Moon and Spanish I with Senora Harkey. (uses Breaking the Barrier Spanish as a spine). This was sophomore year for both classes. We would have continued with Dr Moon for A&P but my daughter wanted to take A&P in person with her best friend. We're still considering physics for the fall. 

[Roadrunner]

There is also Kolbe. It’s a Catholic option. 

[The Governess]

We’ve used and been happy with the following providers:

WTM Academy (Writing, History, Socratic Discussion, Chem)

AOPS (Pre-A)

Derek Owens (Alg 2)

CLRC (Literature, Latin)

Blue Tent (English)

Lukeion (Latin)

Clover Creek Physics

Memoria Press (Latin)

[CAtoVA]

That's good to hear something positive about True North Academy.

My daughter has now decided to switch her lab science for the upcoming year from Marine Biology (Athena's) to one semester of Genetics w/lab at TNA and one semester of Neuroscience w/lab at AIM Academy. I have had no previous experience with TNA and am just going to have to see if it works out for us.

I think Kristin Moon is the teacher for the Genetics class.

Edited June 7, 2023 by CAtoVA

[luuknam]

We used Essentials in Writing for 9th grade English and will again for 10th grade English. It feels a bit light to me, especially on the readings for literature, but I needed to outsource English, and I'd say it's good enough - this kid isn't planning on becoming a writer or anything, nor interested in trying to get into a top university, so, w/e. It's also affordable and secular. 

Like others have said, independence doesn't magically happen, and an online class is not the same as independent. He actually was a lot more independent in some (not all) of his other subjects which were just textbook, workbook, answer key, etc (yes, I checked that he was getting work done - I've seen horror stories before where someone doesn't find out until half a year later that the seemingly good kid had completely slacked off). Ideally, for independence, I'd want him to become more involved in selecting materials as well, but I digress.  

I briefly had my younger kid do time4learning a couple of years ago because I was tired of his complaining. He's never been in school, and felt that homeschool should just be fun and easy (but not TOO easy) all the time and telling him that in normal school there's a lot of drudgery etc wasn't really working. It was an affordable option to give him some clue about having to tediously do a bunch of stuff for many hours a day. He got sick of it rather quickly. 

[kiwik]

My son did 2 classes with CLRC last uear and the were great.  But the combination of high prices once the exchange rate has been factored in and really awkward time once the time zone is factored in has resulted in us deciding yo go back  to Lantern English for writing and just do Latin with CLRC next year.

[Penelope]

On 6/3/2023 at 9:23 AM, MagistraKennedy said:

Hear, hear! This is a mistake I've seen parents make SO many times. Online does not mean completely hands off. In our experience, it's been a lot of two steps forward, one step back sort of situations. 

Yes. In a number of the classes my dc took, there were one or more students who regularly didn’t show up, weren’t prepared for class, or didn’t do any of the required online postings or group work. This was especially obvious in the asynchronous classes (PAH). I suspect some students just aren’t able to handle this type of independence at this age, as many parents saw of their public schooled teens during the pandemic. Being homeschooled might make it more likely that students can better organize their own time, but not necessarily. 

I also sympathize with those kids, because I don’t know how well I would have done if most of my high school and college classes had only online engagement. Some teens will need more in-person motivation and engagement. 

 

Most of my experience with online providers is three or four years old, but we had very good experiences with Wilson Hill Academy, PAH, and WTMA. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Penelope

[MagistraKennedy]

16 hours ago, Penelope said:

Yes. In a number of the classes my dc took, there were one or more students who regularly didn’t show up, weren’t prepared for class, or didn’t do any of the required online postings or group work. This was especially obvious in the asynchronous classes (PAH). I suspect some students just aren’t able to handle this type of independence at this age, as many parents saw of their public schooled teens during the pandemic. Being homeschooled might make it more likely that students can better organize their own time, but not necessarily. 

I also sympathize with those kids, because I don’t know how well I would have done if most of my high school and college classes had only online engagement. Some teens will need more in-person motivation and engagement. 

I ABSOLUTELY agree. My children have been in a cottage school program for classes and they much prefer those over online classes. The experience of being in a classroom, interacting with others, feedback, etc can't be replicated for our children. 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by MagistraKennedy
clarity

[royspeed]

On 6/17/2023 at 6:37 AM, MagistraKennedy said:

My children have been in a cottage school program for classes and they much prefer those over online classes. The experience of being in a classroom, interacting with others, feedback, etc can't be replicated. 

I see a lot of debate on this forum about the virtues of AP classes vs. dual enrollment, online vs. onsite, etc., etc. The factor frequently omitted from such comparisons, though, is the role of the individual instructor.

Look into your own experience: Some AP classes are terrific; others suck. Some college classes are wonderful; others are hopelessly mediocre — they can be deadly, stultifying experiences. The difference is the instructor. — Put another way, it's not the AP curriculum that makes a course great. It's not the classroom that makes a community college course great.

Now granted, some online classes are horrible. With the advent of COVID, hundreds of thousands of teachers across the country began teaching online without giving any thought at all to how teaching online might be different from standing at the front of a classroom. Result: Millions of students complaining about how horrible "Zoom classes" were. — Remember? — And more often than not, they were horrible. But not because they were online.

Again, it's not the platform that's awful; it's the teacher. And when an online class is wonderful — and there are wonderful online classes — it's not the platform; it's the teacher. And @MagistraKennedy, the specific features of your cottage school program that you seem to cherish, like interacting with others, feedback, etc., [deleted by moderator: advertising]

[stripe]

Debbie Downer here.…..My kids never made a friend from an online class or even a friendly acquaintance they’ve kept up with after the class ends. I don’t think isolated online classes build friendships, and I think this is something many kids and teens want and need. Also they want to take multiple classes with the same people, and do things together like study together outside of class, and work on projects and labs in class. Online classes are very tricky. Homeschooling is very tricky. Parenting is too, for that matter. My kids really didn’t like most online classes, and most weren’t worth liking. And there is a lot that can go wrong — technology malfunctions a lot. It is very disruptive when the internet is going in and out, the computer is sluggish, the teacher can’t figure out how to use the meeting software, other students are posting AI generated “feedback” to their essays, and a classmate won’t stop boasting in the comments section. (True stories, all.)

Most of all, I think it’s worth figuring out if your kids will hate online classes, learn nothing, feel lonely and cry/withdraw, or if they will find an amazing community of peers from around the world to support them as they stay up late discovering the cure for cancer and writing epic poems. 

[MagistraKennedy]

11 hours ago, royspeed said:

Again, it's not the platform that's awful; it's the teacher. And when an online class is wonderful — and there are wonderful online classes — it's not the platform; it's the teacher. And @MagistraKennedy, the specific features of your cottage school program that you seem to cherish, like interacting with others, feedback, etc., are features of my own online classes — and have been since 2014 (six years before COVID showed up). My students get to know one another, like another; they become keenly interested in one another's views and observations. They're warmly supportive of one another's efforts, whether the students are reading aloud from a Shakespeare play, or reciting a memorized passage of verse, or sharing a new draft of an essay.

 

We have had a handful of EXCELLENT online teachers that we've been very happy with. My children haven't developed any deep relationships with their online classmates. I don't think that's any sort of sign of an issue with the teacher, the classroom, the students, or my children. It's simply a matter of preference. (I went back and edited for clarity in my original post)

Different strokes for different folks. 🤷‍♂️ Like @stripe mentions, it's most definitely worth it to figure out if it's an avenue that's worth pursuing. Some kids love them, others hate them. 

[Penelope]

4 hours ago, MagistraKennedy said:

We have had a handful of EXCELLENT online teachers that we've been very happy with. My children haven't developed any deep relationships with their online classmates. I don't think that's any sort of sign of an issue with the teacher, the classroom, the students, or my children. It's simply a matter of preference. (I went back and edited for clarity in my original post)

Different strokes for different folks. 🤷‍♂️ Like @stripe mentions, it's most definitely worth it to figure out if it's an avenue that's worth pursuing. Some kids love them, others hate them. 

I agree with this. The judicious use of online classes has been beneficial to my homeschool, not only to the kids who have taken them, but to my younger children, due to freeing up of my time. 
But online interaction is not the same as in-person. That doesn’t mean that every online class is a bad experience, or that every in-person class is a good experience. In-person doesn’t necessarily mean positive interactions and making friends, or friendly acquaintances, either. But I haven’t seen it happen yet in an online class, even the ones with small group assignments. Maybe it is more likely to happen if students are doing a full online program at one school, interact with the same students over and over, and have the ability to get together in-person outside of class. 
 

Some teens will be happy doing at-home school, including a large number of online classes, and having all their social interaction in after-school hours. Others do not have the same opportunities or interests, and will struggle with loneliness. Again, it’s not the fault of online classes per se; sometimes the student would be better off studying more subjects with some interaction with a family member, but sometimes they need more outlets outside the home than their particular interests and hobbies provide. There is a reason why co-ops are so popular, and I don’t think the primary reason is academic rigor. The OP of this thread is about having a student be completely independent with 100% online education. I think some of us are just trying to say that this isn’t going to be great for all students — IMO it’s probably a minority— even with the very best teachers and classroom set-up. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Penelope

[Roadrunner]

Fwiw my kids haven’t developed any friendships at CC in person classics either. 
 

[Clemsondana]

I think that the pros and cons of various formats will be highly individualized to each student's preferences.  I know several students who struggle with fully online classes - they do better with more interaction.  On the other hand, my older likes online asynchronous classes.  This kid isn't an extrovert, but does have several extracurriculars that occur throughout the week that involve a lot of interaction with long-time friends and teammates.  While happy to meet new people, kid isn't particularly looking for new friends.  Kid doesn't want the stress of dealing with potential schedule conflicts.  With asynchronous, kid's scholar's bowl, sport, scout project work, science olympiad practice, etc, can all be accommodated. Taking a synchronous class would potentially cause kid to need to miss part of an activity that kid likes.  It also freed up kid's schedule so that, despite having moved past the level of classes offered at co-op, kid is planning to swing by every week to do a ballroom dance class, be a teacher's helper for an hour, and then eat lunch with friends.  But, this also works because kid is very good at managing a schedule...which is great since kid graduates in a year and will need to be able to do that!  Both of my kids have done a mix of home-done, asynchronous, and co-op classes, and they interact with them differently.  

[Dmmetler]

On 6/16/2023 at 8:45 PM, stripe said:

Debbie Downer here.…..My kids never made a friend from an online class or even a friendly acquaintance they’ve kept up with after the class ends. I don’t think isolated online classes build friendships, and I think this is something many kids and teens want and need. Also they want to take multiple classes with the same people, and do things together like study together outside of class, and work on projects and labs in class. Online classes are very tricky. Homeschooling is very tricky. Parenting is too, for that matter. My kids really didn’t like most online classes, and most weren’t worth liking. And there is a lot that can go wrong — technology malfunctions a lot. It is very disruptive when the internet is going in and out, the computer is sluggish, the teacher can’t figure out how to use the meeting software, other students are posting AI generated “feedback” to their essays, and a classmate won’t stop boasting in the comments section. (True stories, all.)

Most of all, I think it’s worth figuring out if your kids will hate online classes, learn nothing, feel lonely and cry/withdraw, or if they will find an amazing community of peers from around the world to support them as they stay up late discovering the cure for cancer and writing epic poems. 

FWIW, my entering 3rd year of college teen still has friends from Athena's classes. But that group also took classes together starting in elementary school, had a chance for some of them to meet each other in person, and stayed in touch into college and beyond. I do think some providers do a better job at this than others-online classes  that have moderated social forums that span classes and have open chat sessions (again, moderated) were better at this than even in person classes that only met once a week and didn't try to facilitate that-almosf all the friends from local classes and DE didn't last past the end of the class. 

[stripe]

I’d certainly do something like sign a kid up for Khan Academy. Some kids may enjoy that. It’s free and would give you valuable information about your kids in short order.