Paging Dr Hive: Tick/Lyme Disease People, Please Advise

[Spy Car]

My son, who is in his freshman year at UC Santa Cruz discovered a tick this morning. He immediately pulled it out.

Now he is freaking out. Student Health is naturally  closed for the holiday.

We've never dealt with ticks previously--and I'm completely ignorant about how to advise him-- and I'm also not sure the prevalence of tick-borne diseases on the North-Central CA coast. 

If you have words of wisdom, please share.

He has saved the tick.

For those observing one of the holidays today, my best wishes for a meaningful day/week/month.

Bill

 

 

 

[regentrude]

Watch for symptoms.  Redness, fever, general malaise. Then go see doctor.

Tick bites are common here, and it's not practical to do something (doctor, meds) every single time you have a tick. Most likely it's all fine.

Edited April 9, 2023 by regentrude

[Spryte]

Don’t panic.

Save the tick, yes. Go to tickcheck.com and try to identify it (type, age, gender) — that may set your mind at ease. If not, send it off for testing. This is the tick testing lab my LLMD recommends. We test for everything, because we are in an endemic area and our family has had it all at this point. I’m over it, and don’t mess around.

If any symptoms or rash develop — 28 days (no less!) of doxy. Photograph any rashes. Keep an eye out for intermittent fevers and babesiosis symptoms — that needs different treatment. Ditto for stretch mark type rashes (bartonella). But generally if you have Lyme and  treat for it fast, the other stuff won’t get a toehold.

I could write a book, but this is what we do now.

 

ETA: My reaction is based on my lived experience, in an endemic area. And our family doc is a sought after LLMD, so we have access to her thoughts. In an area not endemic — YMMV. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Spryte

[Faith-manor]

My first word of advice is for him to take a permanent marker and draw a tight circle around the perimeter of the bite. While about 40-45% of Lyme disease sufferers will not develop a bulls eye rash, the other's will, and the amount of spread outside the circle when the bite was discovered can indicate to a practitioner the level of reaction and potential infection the patient is experiencing.

2nd, there are very specific ticks that transmit disease. So a lot of people get tick bites from other species who do not transmit Lyme's. So try to reassure him that this is not an automatic danger.

He can see student health in the days to come. The infection does not go nuts and get crazy overnight. A delay of a day or two in treatment should he actually be in danger of developing the disease is not dangerous.

Now all that said, IF he develops any symptoms, if he gets a bulls eye rash, if he wants bloodwork in order to be sure he is in the clear or to be sure that he does or doesn't need treatment, then he should feel comfortable advocating for himself if student health doesn't take him seriously, or may need an appointment at home with your own physician. Not all student health centers are created equal.

No matter what, encourage him not to panic, sleep well, stay hydrated,rat his veggies and fruits, all the things we do to support immune health. If he ends up on a a course of doxy, then he does need to have a little nutritional coaching. There are certain things one should not eat within two hours of a dose of fish because it can inhibit efficacy/absorption. And then it is super important to rest well.

[Spy Car]

Just now, regentrude said:

Watch for symptoms.  Redness, fever, general malaise. Then go see doctor.

Tick bites are common here and it's not practical to do something every time you have a tick.

So wait to see a doctor unless there are such symptoms? How soon after a tick bite would one typically develop symptoms if there was a tick based-illness such as Lyme?

Sorry to ask such basic questions. I have no experience with ticks and my son is highly alarmed.

Bill

 

 

 

[Spy Car]

Not sure if this photo is good enough for an ID.

It is what I have for now.

 

Bill

[catz]

I would tell him to just watch it for a couple weeks.  But honestly, if we all ran to a doctor every time we found a tick in our neck of the woods we'd be going constantly.  

Only certain ticks can transmit lyme and it takes them being on for a while to transmit.  The deer ticks that are associated with lyme are typically very tiny and hard to find on you.  The most common ticks in CA are not associated with Lyme. 

Since it is tick season where he is, I'd encourage him to do a tick search daily when he showers.  

[Faith-manor]

This is what a deer tick looks like.

[Pawz4me]

I wouldn’t give it a second thought unless he develops some symptoms. Ticks are way too common an occurrence here to freak out and run to the doc every time someone pulls one off. But I’d save it for a bit. 

[Spy Car]

Thank you all.

I'm trying to talk my son down. He is really flipped out about this. I'm trying to pass along Hive wisdom, but finding limited success in calming his mind.

Here is a shot of the site where he got bit. Looks a bit "angry" to me:

 

 

And here is a new shot of the tick (it is pretty small):

 

Bill

 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Spy Car

[sweet2ndchance]

It looks like none of the tick broke off when he pulled it off so that's good.

It's fine for it to look a little angry for a while. A day or two, (maybe even three if he is prone to reactions to bug bites in general) and it shouldn't look angry any more or at least look a lot better (again if he is prone to bug bite reactions, it could take longer).

You want to watch for severe redness (really angry looking like an aggravated pimple or a bee sting), rash (bull's eye or any other kind of rash which may indicate he's allergic to them), swelling (the permanent marker trick mentioned above is good for that) and feeling like you are coming down with something. If any of that occurs, then it is time to go see the doctor.

At this stage, there isn't much to do without symptoms. They can just tell you, "Yup, it's a tick bite. Here's what to watch for..."

I've pulled more ticks off my kids than I care to count and, knock on wood, no one has gotten sick from them ever. Infected a couple of times when the head of the tick broke off but we've never dealt with tick borne disease even in tick country. Yes, you can get really sick from tick bites but not every tick bite will make you sick. Just like not every mosquito bite will give you West Nile virus.

I hope you're able to calm your son down a bit and his tick bite ends up being nothing to worry about. 🙂 

[Indigo Blue]

Your poor son. I’m sorry he is so upset. It’s understandable. I’ve pulled many ticks off me in my life. Most likely he will be just fine. Like everyone else said, just note the date, and keep an eye on it. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Indigo Blue
So many typos

[Carol in Cal.]

There are a lot of disease carrying ticks in the UC Santa Cruz area.

I think he should go to the doctor regardless.  Lyme is not the only danger.  But a couple days won’t matter too much.  He should watch for the red area to get bigger—that is consistent with Lyme.

I have heard that the ticks that cause Lyme are about the size of the period at the end of sentence in a normal book.  So, a small species.  Also, just FYI, they tend to lie in wait at the very tip of weedy grasses to jump onto hosts as they brush by them.  When I’m hiking in that area I try to avoid that kind of contact for that reason.

Also, just in general, there is LOTS of poison oak in that area, and it is very green and juicy but hard to identify this time of the year.  So that is another great reason to avoid contact with plants along trails right now.  Poison oak is quite invasive.

[Corraleno]

Does he know how long the tick was on him before he removed it? It usually takes more than 24 hours for the tick to successfully transmit the bacteria, so if he got it off within 24 hours the odds of him getting Lyme are very low. The main symptoms he should watch for are rash, fatigue, fever, chills, body ache, and swollen lymph nodes.

If he develops any of those he should absolutely insist on 28 days of doxycycline regardless of the result of any Lyme test. There can be false negatives, especially early in the infection period. Better to take antibiotics and not need them than not take them and end up with a chronic infection that is much more difficult to eradicate.

(My son was bitten by a tick at 12 while visiting family in NJ & PA. He never saw the tick or developed a rash, but about a week after we got home he started feeling really tired and achey, but Lyme disease was not even on my radar. Eventually, more than a year later, his knee swelled up like a softball, and it took many months and multiple specialists to eventually get a proper diagnosis, and he ended up on doxy for 18 months.)

[Pawz4me]

39 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Lyme is not the only danger.

Yes. In my area the most common TBDs are Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Ehrlichiosis, Lyme and STARI. Nevertheless, the guidelines are to note the date, save the tick (putting it in rubbing alcohol is the recommended method) and to see a doctor if symptoms develop within three weeks. Running to the doctor right away for a tick bite would accomplish nothing other than to totally swamp every primary care doctor.

[Eos]

I always send every tick for Lyme and other disease testing, not just ID.  If it's positive, you can wait for symptoms to treat but I have always treated for all of our positive ticks regardless of symptoms becauseI know a lot of very affected people. My preferred protocol is 4 weeks, but preferably 6 weeks of doxycycline, and none of us have ever had symptoms or Lyme, even though we've had many many positive ticks.  I know this seems like overkill.   Sometimes the doc I see won't treat without symptoms or a bulls-eye but not all Lyme starts with a bullseye.  It makes me cranky that docs will resist writing scripts for proactive treatment - they will over-treat for ear infections or even give doxycycline for acne but they've been accused of a lot by people who've been affected by Lyme and I think it's caused a backlash of under-treating.

I didn't think Lyme was much of a problem where your son is?  Here it's epidemic.

[Spy Car]

Thank you all for sharing. I feel really badly for my son. He's a little bit unglued.

Perhaps a significant over-reaction, but we all have our areas when reason goes out the window.

I think it is likely that the tick was only on him for 24 hours of less. As he was out in the woods and wore shorts.

I really appreciate all the insights.

A complicating factor is that when he was 4 he had ear issues and amoxicillin caused a little rash. Later, his pediatrician doubted that he is allergic, but we've always noted a potential allergy.

I really appreciate it, you all. Hard to be at a distance and not feel able to instantly fix this.

Bill

[Pawz4me]

2 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

 

A complicating factor is that when he was 4 he had ear issues and amoxicillin caused a little rash. Later, his pediatrician doubted that he is allergic, but we've always noted a potential allergy.

 

I've got one of those, too. He got hives from amoxicillin and the pediatrician didn't want to test, just said to assume it is an allergy unless he ever really needs penicillin. But doxycycline, which is the most common treatment for TBDs, isn't in the penicillin family. My maybe-allergic-to-penicillin DS does fine with doxy. So tell your DS he can rest his mind about that.

[Spy Car]

1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

I've got one of those, too. He got hives from amoxicillin and the pediatrician didn't want to test, just said to assume it is an allergy unless he ever really needs penicillin. But doxycycline, which is the most common treatment for TBDs, isn't in the penicillin family. My maybe-allergic-to-penicillin DS does fine with doxy. So tell your DS he can rest his mind about that.

That's good news. Much appreciated!

Bill

[Rachel]

6 hours ago, regentrude said:

Watch for symptoms.  Redness, fever, general malaise. Then go see doctor.

Tick bites are common here, and it's not practical to do something (doctor, meds) every single time you have a tick. Most likely it's all fine.

Completely agree!

 

And yes, Lyme isn’t the only tick born illness, just the one we hear the most about. It’s not unusual to look angry around the area where the tick was, it’s a bite after all. Symptoms of an infection would occur about 5-10 days after the tick bite. 
 

I don’t recognize that particular tick, but I’m sure your state has a website that can tell you what types of ticks are in the area where your son was hiking. 

[Selkie]

In my experience, tick bites will often stay red (just a small red mark) for weeks. They also tend to be itchy.

We've had loads of tick bites and only one of us has gotten sick from it. My ds had Lyme when he was 12. He had a huge red circle at the site of the bite, bullseye rash all over his body, and flu-like symptoms.

[ktgrok]

13 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Thank you all for sharing. I feel really badly for my son. He's a little bit unglued.

Perhaps a significant over-reaction, but we all have our areas when reason goes out the window.

I think it is likely that the tick was only on him for 24 hours of less. As he was out in the woods and wore shorts.

I really appreciate all the insights.

A complicating factor is that when he was 4 he had ear issues and amoxicillin caused a little rash. Later, his pediatrician doubted that he is allergic, but we've always noted a potential allergy.

I really appreciate it, you all. Hard to be at a distance and not feel able to instantly fix this.

Bill

Honestly, I don’t blame him. Forget all the diseases, ticks are just gross!!! I HATE them. Just disgusting. The leaches of the insect world. I’m still traumatized a decade and a half later by a dog someone brought into the clinic that was covered in HUNDREDS of ticks!!! Ick. 
his response is normal, but truly he will be fine. Just go to doctor if he feels sick. 

[Spy Car]

Quick update. My son did go to Student Health today.

What they said resonated with the information that you all provided to me, and that I in turn had passed along to him.

He is now "chill." 

I really (really) appreciate all the good advise. Ticks are not something I know much about (and that's an understatement). 

He will monitor the situation, but he's mercifully "post-panic." 

I'm grateful.

Bill

 

[Indigo Blue]

I’m just glad he feels better now!!

[catz]

Sometimes some reinforcement from a medical professional in person is what is called for.  Glad he's feeling better about it.

I would encourage him to wear long pants and socks in tall grass or forested areas and do tick searches when he returns from hikes, etc.  They really do need to be on for a bit to cause problems.  But we've been removing ticks for many years and haven't had anything here.  And being on abx long term is not risk free (and I know this from experience).

Edited April 10, 2023 by catz

[catz]

Oops - double post!?

Edited April 11, 2023 by catz

[Faith-manor]

Glad to help, Bill! It is so hard to parent, but not parent, the adult child who needs parenting. It is quite the delicate little dance! Happy to help.

[Spy Car]

24 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Glad to help, Bill! It is so hard to parent, but not parent, the adult child who needs parenting. It is quite the delicate little dance! Happy to help.

He is generally pretty relaxed. This was not one of those times.

He needed support. You helped me help him.

That means a lot to me.

Bill

 

 

[Spy Car]

Oh dear. It seems like my son survived the first tick bite without any repercussions. No symptoms.

But now, he's had a second one, and this one did not come out cleanly. He's flipping out again. And we have him in search for tweezers.

What I need to know: What spray or lotion do I order for him for when he goes in the woods?

Do such repellents help? Are there ones that are DEET-free and still as effective?

Or other suggestions?

This boy. He is a death-defying skateboarder. Takes "hill bombs" down the steep mountain roads in Santa Cruz. And the newest thing is climbing a number of specially-prepared redwood "climbing trees." He sent me a video yesterday. Scary. And normal person would be scared to death by the heights. He's unphased.

But a tick? PANIC MODE. Oy!

Bill

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Spy Car

[prairiewindmomma]

Amazon sells something called a tick key. I would guess with how wet winter has been the tick population will be higher this year. 
 

https://www.amazon.com/Tick-Key-Remover-Assorted/dp/B000R1D3KQ

He really ought to be wearing light weight lighter colored long trousers in the woods. 

[Carol in Cal.]

He needs to stop touching plants when he is outside.

[wathe]

Permethrin treated clothing, and DEET repellent to skin

CDC interactive tool to guide on how to remove tick and when to seek care..

Both CDC and Health Canada advise to remove retained/broken-off mouthparts with tweezers if you can, and if you can't then leave them alone.  One should not dig to get them out.

[Spy Car]

1 minute ago, Carol in Cal. said:

He needs to stop touching plants when he is outside.

He is climbing enormous redwood trees. How is he not going to touch plants??? LOL

Bill

[Spy Car]

6 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Amazon sells something called a tick key. I would guess with how wet winter has been the tick population will be higher this year. 
 

https://www.amazon.com/Tick-Key-Remover-Assorted/dp/B000R1D3KQ

He really ought to be wearing light weight lighter colored long trousers in the woods. 

Are those better than tweezers? Just as good. Almost are good?

The huge upside is that he'd be less likely to lose them on his keyring.

Bill

[wathe]

Watkin's Great Outdoors Insect Repellent Lotion is my fave.

Lasts a long time once applied, and really works

Must be the LOTION, not the spray.

[wathe]

4 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Are those better than tweezers? Just as good. Almost are good?

The huge upside is that he'd be less likely to lose them on his keyring.

Bill

Depends on where the tick is embedded.

Keys are good for ticks on flat parts of the body.  Useless in crevices.  Also useless for very small ticks.  But are handy because you can always have it with you on your key ring.  ETA - very small ticks don't stay very small for long, they swell impressively as they feed!

I like very fine tipped tweezers better, but I do carry a tick key, because the best tool is the one you actually have with you.....

Edited April 20, 2023 by wathe

[prairiewindmomma]

IME, tick keys are infinitely better than tweezers. It slides fully under the body and lifts the tick up and out. 
 

If you twist or jerk with tweezers it’s just too easy to leave the embedded head behind.

[prairiewindmomma]

If you are really good with fine tipped tweezers, tweezers truly are fine…but for the panicky teens and young adults in my life…tick key is the way to go.

[Spy Car]

3 minutes ago, wathe said:

Depends on where the tick is embedded.

Keys are good for ticks on flat parts of the body.  Useless in crevices.  Also useless for very small ticks.  But are handy because you can always have it with you on your key ring.  ETA - very small ticks don't stay very small for long, they swell impressively as they feed!

I like very fine tipped tweezers better, but I do carry a tick key, because the best tool is the one you actually have with you.....

I hear you. thank for the clarification. I think we will need both.

Bill

[Spy Car]

He found some tweezers and the last tick remnants have been removed.

Calmness has returned.

Bill

[prairiewindmomma]

Poor guy. Glad calmness has returned. 
 

 

[wathe]

One can also use a piece of fine thread or suture to grasp the tick's head (loop the thread around the head and knot, like a tiny tick lasso), and pull it out .

[Spy Car]

Just now, prairiewindmomma said:

Poor guy. Glad calmness has returned. 
 

 

Who knew it would be "ticks?"

Bill

 

[prairiewindmomma]

5 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Who knew it would be "ticks?"

Bill

 

My kids. The thought of a parasite attached to their body sucking their blood and potentially giving them a disease this very minute = instant panic. 
 

It’s wild. They do tons of crazy stuff, but ticks, leeches, and other parasites are a hard no-go.

[Carol in Cal.]

32 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

He is climbing enormous redwood trees. How is he not going to touch plants??? LOL

Bill

OK, but see, the ticks are not on the tree.  They in the grasses and ferns underneath the tree.  He needs to avoid touching those.  Seriously.  That’s what works best.  Avoidance.  

Plus there are lots of rattlesnakes out here, and they are done hibernating.  They like to hide out in grasses and under ferns.  It is stupid on far more serious levels than ticks to go charging through these.  Rattlesnakes do not run away.  They stand their ground and rattle and strike.  Rattlesnake bites are SERIOUSLY dangerous.  You son is not in a fully benign, peaceful natural landscape.  He is in a place with actual dangers.

Plus poison oak is rampant there and hard to recognize this time of the year.

 

[Spy Car]

Just now, Carol in Cal. said:

OK, but see, the ticks are not on the tree.  They in the grasses and ferns underneath the tree.  He needs to avoid touching those.  Seriously.  That’s what works best.  Avoidance.  

Plus there are lots of rattlesnakes out here, and they are done hibernating.  They like to hide out in grasses and under ferns.  It is stupid on far more serious levels than ticks to go charging through these.  Rattlesnakes do not run away.  They stand their ground and rattle and strike.  Rattlesnake bites are SERIOUSLY dangerous.  You son is not in a fully benign, peaceful natural landscape.  He is in a place with actual dangers.

Plus poison oak is rampant there and hard to recognize this time of the year.

 

I will pass on all these excellent points.

He tends to be drawn to danger. 

But not so "chill" about the tick bites. Can't image dealing with a rattlesnake. It is pretty wild up there. That's for sure.

I've always felt that I may be immune to poison oak, myself. I remember being at summer camp as a kid and playing in a big patch of it with some other boys. They all broke out in terrible blisters that were doused with Calamine lotion. I alone had nothing.

Bill

[Spy Car]

You want to know why I have grey hair? LOL

Don't watch this video if you are afraid of heights and/or place a value on human life. Scary!

Oh, and in case you are wondering about how he shot the video, I asked, "Did you get a GoPro?" 

No, I duct-taped my phone to my head. Well I was wearing a beanie. So I duct-taped it to the beanie while it was on my head.

🤦‍♂️

Watch at your own discretion:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M_s12EHcaasokjNPo9oaWJPpFSE0Xxyb/view?usp=sharing

Bill

Edited April 20, 2023 by Spy Car

[Spy Car]

41 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

My kids. The thought of a parasite attached to their body sucking their blood and potentially giving them a disease this very minute = instant panic. 
 

It’s wild. They do tons of crazy stuff, but ticks, leeches, and other parasites are a hard no-go.

So we have similar type offspring? But then he's fine again. And acts like, Dad, what's the big deal? LOL

He makes me laugh.

Bill

[Carol in Cal.]

CA rattlesnake article:

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/exploration-survival/surviving-rattlesnake-bite/

[CTVKath]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!! That's an amazing climb! Decades ago I could have climbed up but there's no way I'd have climbed down. They would have had to use a helicopter to get me off the top.