Can we discuss what retirement does to marriage?

[Arcadia]

30 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

He does do quite a bit of volunteering…….but volunteers don’t get the accolades that employees give you or peer groups.  

I have done volunteering where I get peer groups but it does depend on what kind of volunteering. What is missing is the adrenaline from managing projects, seeing profits and getting the high from jobs well done. He could try to be a board member of a non-profit, which would give him a sort of peer group as well as the feeling of accomplishments.  For example, my kids german school board members can take pride that the school does not run into financial issues and they do get thanks at the end of year party.

[Harriet Vane]

34 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

I have done volunteering where I get peer groups but it does depend on what kind of volunteering. What is missing is the adrenaline from managing projects, seeing profits and getting the high from jobs well done. He could try to be a board member of a non-profit, which would give him a sort of peer group as well as the feeling of accomplishments.  For example, my kids german school board members can take pride that the school does not run into financial issues and they do get thanks at the end of year party.

This makes sense to me. Another possible outlet could be the local Rotary Club--that may have the "flavor" he misses from his working days.

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Sometimes people only understand that their spouse won’t keep taking it anymore when they actually stop taking it.  My xh and his affairs.  He did not fully ‘get it’ until we were divorced and I had remarried.  I know that sounds stupid but he actually told a good friend of ours that he always thought we would get back together.  The difference is that in my marriage….well my personality in general is that I communicate.  I told him over and over I would not tolerate his cheating.  He just did not believe me.  
 

Hopefully my friend’s husband will ‘get’ how unhappy she is.  But she has to communicate with him.  Very directly. 

I think communication is the key. If she doesn't tell him exactly how she's feeling, he may be too oblivious to recognize it on his own. 

He may not be a bad guy, but if he needs to vent about his wife, he needs to be talking TO his wife, not ABOUT her to other people. I think it's awful that he's talking this way about her behind her back, and I can understand why she is so hurt about it. What did he say when she confronted him about the texts she saw?

Also, if she can't handle all of the housework and gardening, and for some reason neither she nor her dh will hire help to take care of it, maybe they should seriously consider downsizing a bit and moving into an upscale low maintenance community, so at least all of the outside work would be done. And really, she should be focusing on her health, not on cleaning the house and doing laundry. It doesn't even compute for me that she would be doing those things herself. 

If she is having trouble keeping up with her house, can she just close the doors of unused rooms, and not clean them at all until a maid service comes to do it for her? She could take care of the daily stuff like tidying up the kitchen and cleaning the toilets they use, but the rest could wait for the cleaning people. If she is like me, she probably has extra bedrooms and bathrooms that are rarely, if ever, used, so she could just forget about dealing with them at all, and with only two people in the house and they don't have pets, she could easily get away with not cleaning floors or vacuuming for a week between cleaning service visits. 

It seems like she is her own worst enemy here. I don't know if this will make sense, but she has money, but she is still living as though she doesn't. One of the biggest advantages of money is that it lets you hire people to do the work you don't want to do -- or in her case, the work she really shouldn't be doing. And if she outsourced most of the work, she might not mind doing the little things like making breakfast for her dh and spending some time with him in the morning. 

This couple really needs to sit down together and discuss the expectations they have of each other. It sounds like they are talking to everyone but each other about their problems, and that's not going to solve anything.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Catwoman
Typing is hard and autocorrect is not my friend today

[Scarlett]

22 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I think communication is the key. If she doesn't tell him exactly how she's feeling, he may be too oblivious to recognize it on his own. 

He may not be a bad guy, but if he needs to vent about his wife, he needs to be talking TO his wife, not ABOUT her to other people. I think it's awful that he's talking this way about her behind her back, and I can understand why she is so hurt about it. What did he say when she confronted him about the texts she saw?

Also, if she can't handle all of the housework and gardening, and for some reason neither she nor her dh will hire help to take care of it, maybe they should seriously consider downsizing a bit and moving into an upscale low maintenance community, so at least all of the outside work would be done. And really, she should be focusing on her health, not on cleaning the house and doing laundry. It doesn't even compute for me that she would be doing those things herself. 

If she is having trouble keeping up with her house, can she just close the doors of unused rooms, and not clean them at all until a maid service comes to do it for her? She could take care of the daily stuff like tidying up the kitchen and cleaning the toilets they use, but the rest could wait for the cleaning people. If she is like me, she probably has extra bedrooms and bathrooms that are rarely, if ever, used, so she could just forget about dealing with them at all, and with only two people in the house and they don't have pets, she could easily get away with not cleaning floors or vacuuming for a week between cleaning service visits. 

It seems like she is her own worst enemy here. I don't know if this will make sense, but she has money, but she is still living as though she doesn't. One of the biggest advantages of money is that it lets you hire people to do the work you don't want to do -- or in her case, the work she really shouldn't be doing. And if she outsourced most of the work, she might not mind doing the little things like making breakfast for her dh and spending some time with him in the morning. 

This couple really needs to sit down together and discuss the expectations they have of each other. It sounds like they are talking to everyone but each other about their problems, and that's not going to solve anything.

 

 

They use a lot of the house a lot. Lots of guests. At their main house and lake house. She has a service clean the lake house. And they have 2 inside  dogs.

She does plenty and since he thinks she is lazy sure doesn’t want to hire more done. 
 

Ttey won’t downsize. They live on a beautiful mountain and their kids are in the same property. 
 

But she does need to communicate with him. Hopefully the counselor will help. 

[Catwoman]

Why would he think she's lazy? I mean, what good is money if she's spending her days cooking and cleaning?

Maybe you don't feel comfortable answering this, but how much are they actually worth? Are we talking about hundreds of millions of dollars here? Or is it more like tens of millions of dollars? That makes a big difference in the amount of disposable income they have. 

[Grace Hopper]

17 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Good question.  She hires the majority of the weekly cleaning, but he still expects her to cook for him several times a week.  He is a very early riser…like 5-6 a.m….and she prefers to sleep until about 8…..and then he is annoyed that she doesn’t cook him breakfast.  

Well that’s clearly jackassery. 
 

eta I am mainly speaking about the bolded part of the quote. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[Catwoman]

19 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Well that’s clearly jackassery. 

I agree. But I also think she needs to share the blame a bit, because it seems like she may not be confronting him about these things. He sounds like he has a very strong personality, but it also sounds like Scarlett has always gotten along well with him, so I'm wondering if maybe part of the problem might be that she's not communicating clearly with him, rather than that he's a total jerk. He's not going to change his behavior if she doesn't call him out on it.

Scarlett, does she tell him she's too tired to get up and make breakfast at 6AM, or does she play along with him and say things like, "I'm sorry I overslept," as though she is somehow at fault? 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Catwoman

[Murphy101]

32 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Why would he think she's lazy? I mean, what good is money if she's spending her days cooking and cleaning?

Maybe you don't feel comfortable answering this, but how much are they actually worth? Are we talking about hundreds of millions of dollars here? Or is it more like tens of millions of dollars? That makes a big difference in the amount of disposable income they have. 

Pretty much my question.

Also I have always had an attitude that I’ve shared with Dh and dc:

All I hear when someone complains is volunteerism.

”Look at you sleeping in instead of making breakfast.”

Would get a response of:

“Are you coming back to bed or are you making breakfast?”

”Why is this basket of clean laundry not put up?”

would get a response of:

”Apparently it’s because you still didn’t do it yet.”

”You know this would be a better way to do that.”

would get a response of:

”I agree, thanks for offering to do that for me!”

If we are going to making this about retirement marriage struggles, a huge reason older women file for divorce after long marriages is because they decided they wanted to actually retire too - in many cases from cooking his meals and washing his underwear and scrubbing his toilet.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Murphy101

[Clemsondana]

Hosting lots of guests is exhausting, but people who don't do the work don't realize it.  Extra laundry, extra cooking, and so much extra planning and extra groceries to unload.  A funny story along those lines...my parents attend a church where some weeks, instead of a potluck, different families sign up to provide the Wednesday night meal for around 40-50 people.  My mom is a great cook who has done small wedding receptions, tons of church meals, etc.  So, she signed up for a week and started planning.  Dad was adamant that they do country style steak and gravy.  Mom kept saying that it wasn't a good meal to fix for a crowd and dad said that he was retired and would be there to help and that she was exaggerating how much work it would be.  After spending hours browning the meat pieces in skillets so that it could go into the oven to cook slowly, and then having to do the usual prep of making the sides, Dad understood why mom had said that they could do whatever sides, but that the meat should be a roast, or chicken that could all be put in a pan, topped with flavor, and baked, or they should do a casserole.  Until he had to do it, he just didn't believe that it took hours to brown meat...but if you're doing 60+ pieces and can only do 8 at a time, and have to do both sides, it takes forever, which anybody who has spent time in a kitchen knows.  

And, I've also seen a few situations where men (it could be women, but in my situations it hasn't been) get irritated with the infirmities of others.  There seems to be some attitude of 'If you really wanted to, you could' even though, if asked, they would say that their wife had a legitimate illness or injury.  Maintaining a large house is challenging.  Hosting guests frequently is tiring.  Even small things like having 2 people be home full time adds work.  The combination of him not understanding what work is involved and her limited stamina with his possible lack of sympathy could be a really tough combination.  I found that spouse got more on board when I started verbalizing some of it, like 'I've got to get the laundry started - there are 3 extra loads to get the guest's sheets and towels done, and then the beds need to be re-made.  I'll be free/start dinner once I'm done with that'.  without saying it, he'd never have thought about the fact that I had done it.  But, that may not fit with her personality or their relationship.  

[Arcadia]

21 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Well that’s clearly jackassery. 

 

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Scarlett, does she tell him she's too tired to get up and make breakfast at 6AM, or does she play along with him and say things like, "I'm sorry I overslept," as though she is somehow at fault? 

We also don’t know if she used to get up early to make breakfast when he was working. While that doesn’t give him a right to be angry, it does give him a reason to be.  On the days my husband goes to office, I wake up early to make coffee and sometimes go back to bed after that for a nap. If I did not wake up early, my husband would be wondering if I am sick or what happened. On the days he work from home, it is okay for him to have his coffee as and when I wake up since he isn’t driving. I am picky about coffee so I am the one making.

[Faith-manor]

5 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Pretty much my question.

Also I have always had an attitude that I’ve shared with Dh and dc:

All I hear when someone complains is volunteerism.

”Look at you sleeping in instead of making breakfast.”

Would get a response of:

“Are you coming back to bed or are you making breakfast?”

”Why is this basket of clean laundry not put up?”

would get a response of:

”Apparently it’s because you still didn’t do it yet.”

”You know this would be a better way to do that.”

would get a response of:

”I agree, thanks for offering to do that for me!”

If we are going to making this about retirement marriage struggles, a huge reason older women file for divorce after long marriages is because they decided they wanted to actually retire too - in many cases from cooking his meals and washing his underwear and scrubbing his toilet.

Very true. In my auntie's case there was no reason to be around him. He was not going to help, he expected her to do everything, her health was waning and she had to go back to work just to escape his constant criticism, and he literally gave her no incentive to be with him. Two years after she went back to work, she filed for divorce. He was stunned. His own sons said things like, "We always wondered why mom didn't do it sooner. You really are a jackass to her." 

She got half his pension, but gave him the house no strings attached, moved into a tiny apartment that she liked because it would be so simple to take care of, and enjoys being free of the constant derision.

I can totally understand that. Women do not exist to be mules for men, even if the men think it should be so.

[Catwoman]

8 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Pretty much my question.

Also I have always had an attitude that I’ve shared with Dh and dc:

All I hear when someone complains is volunteerism.

”Look at you sleeping in instead of making breakfast.”

Would get a response of:

“Are you coming back to bed or are you making breakfast?”

”Why is this basket of clean laundry not put up?”

would get a response of:

”Apparently it’s because you still didn’t do it yet.”

”You know this would be a better way to do that.”

would get a response of:

”I agree, thanks for offering to do that for me!”

If we are going to making this about retirement marriage struggles, a huge reason older women file for divorce after long marriages is because they decided they wanted to actually retire too - in many cases from cooking his meals and washing his underwear and scrubbing his toilet.

I agree, and in this case, there is the obvious option of hiring people to do all of the household chores, and if they don't want full time help in the house, they can easily hire part time housekeepers and send out the laundry (to minimize the number of hours the housekeepers are in their home.) If they don't want to hire a personal chef, they can order a lot their meals and have them delivered to their house. If they entertain a lot, they can hire caterers to do everything for them, so all they have to do is enjoy their guests.

I have to admit that I am somewhat baffled at these people. This is not rocket science. It's much different when people can't afford to hire outside help, but in this case, this couple's problems seem to be mostly about their own attitudes and expectations (of themselves and of each other.) 

[Catwoman]

12 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

Hosting lots of guests is exhausting, but people who don't do the work don't realize it.  Extra laundry, extra cooking, and so much extra planning and extra groceries to unload.  A funny story along those lines...my parents attend a church where some weeks, instead of a potluck, different families sign up to provide the Wednesday night meal for around 40-50 people.  My mom is a great cook who has done small wedding receptions, tons of church meals, etc.  So, she signed up for a week and started planning.  Dad was adamant that they do country style steak and gravy.  Mom kept saying that it wasn't a good meal to fix for a crowd and dad said that he was retired and would be there to help and that she was exaggerating how much work it would be.  After spending hours browning the meat pieces in skillets so that it could go into the oven to cook slowly, and then having to do the usual prep of making the sides, Dad understood why mom had said that they could do whatever sides, but that the meat should be a roast, or chicken that could all be put in a pan, topped with flavor, and baked, or they should do a casserole.  Until he had to do it, he just didn't believe that it took hours to brown meat...but if you're doing 60+ pieces and can only do 8 at a time, and have to do both sides, it takes forever, which anybody who has spent time in a kitchen knows.  

And, I've also seen a few situations where men (it could be women, but in my situations it hasn't been) get irritated with the infirmities of others.  There seems to be some attitude of 'If you really wanted to, you could' even though, if asked, they would say that their wife had a legitimate illness or injury.  Maintaining a large house is challenging.  Hosting guests frequently is tiring.  Even small things like having 2 people be home full time adds work.  The combination of him not understanding what work is involved and her limited stamina with his possible lack of sympathy could be a really tough combination.  I found that spouse got more on board when I started verbalizing some of it, like 'I've got to get the laundry started - there are 3 extra loads to get the guest's sheets and towels done, and then the beds need to be re-made.  I'll be free/start dinner once I'm done with that'.  without saying it, he'd never have thought about the fact that I had done it.  But, that may not fit with her personality or their relationship.  

I absolutely agree with you, but the question still remains -- why is she doing this work herself when she can hire people to do it for her? 

[Clemsondana]

5 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I absolutely agree with you, but the question still remains -- why is she doing this work herself when she can hire people to do it for her? 

My guess is because her spouse doesn't think that it is a big deal.  I don't ask my spouse before spending money for everyday things, but if I wanted to hire a housekeeper we'd talk about it.  Mine wouldn't care, so it would be a financial question of 'is this how we want to spend that money', but if hers doesn't think she's doing anything, and likely remembers it as she hasn't been doing anything for years, maybe he's opposed? 

As spouse is starting to have to deal with aging parents and associated issues, I keep pointing out to him that, although conversationally we may be able to see certain issues, his dad hasn't worked in years but his mom has continued to put meals on the table and manage laundry and make sure they have toilet paper.  She's still having to do things besides manage her own self, so if she seems more agitated is it because of a difference in their relative mental abilities or is because life demands are exceeding the limited bandwidth that she still has at her age.  Until I said something, spouse didn't see it at all.  

[Arcadia]

13 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

As spouse is starting to have to deal with aging parents and associated issues, I keep pointing out to him that, although conversationally we may be able to see certain issues, his dad hasn't worked in years but his mom has continued to put meals on the table and manage laundry and make sure they have toilet paper.  She's still having to do things besides manage her own self, so if she seems more agitated is it because of a difference in their relative mental abilities or is because life demands are exceeding the limited bandwidth that she still has at her age.  Until I said something, spouse didn't see it at all.  

My FIL sees it as not only are their children out of the house, they are also no longer babysitting any of the grandchildren. So to him MIL has all the time to cook and clean for two people. To be fair, he does accompany her to grocery shopping and getting the toilet paper but he won’t think to check if toilet paper stockpile is low. They do have a midsize grocery store as well as 7-Eleven nearby to buy toilet paper from. 

[marbel]

28 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

his mom has continued to put meals on the table and manage laundry and make sure they have toilet paper. 

I'm pulling this tiny bit out because it brings up the issue of carrying the mental load of the household, which we have talked about here many times. 

In my experience/observation, when there is a stay-home parent (usually the wife/mom though not always) that is the person who carries the mental load of the household. And (again in my exp./obs.) it is generally a fair trade for not being the one out working to support the family financially. 

But when the working-outside-the-home person retires, they won't necessarily notice that the mental load hasn't changed, and that the same person is still carrying it. I don't think it's their fault - most people learn to take things for granted. During my years as a stay-home mom, my husband took for granted that there would be coffee available t brew, clean laundry to put on, and a dinner at to eat at night. I took for granted that money would appear in the checking account so I could buy stuff. When it changes due to retirement or other external force, there's an adjustment period for everyone.  I'm sure it's easier for some than for others. 

[Lecka]

I think it sounds like he has a strong personality, but he also chose a meek woman?  And she is a meek woman, who chose a man with a strong personality?

Its one of those things where I think sometimes you can picture each person with a person with a different personality getting along in a different way.

And yet I think this is a fairly common pairing!  

 

I think it’s one where both sides need to work to go against their type to some extent, to keep from getting too meek and too domineering.  

[scholastica]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

They use a lot of the house a lot. Lots of guests. At their main house and lake house. She has a service clean the lake house. And they have 2 inside  dogs.

She does plenty and since he thinks she is lazy sure doesn’t want to hire more done. 
 

Ttey won’t downsize. They live on a beautiful mountain and their kids are in the same property. 
 

But she does need to communicate with him. Hopefully the counselor will help. 

Gently, all the communicating in the world won’t help if the other person won’t listen because they only think of themselves and what they want. I get the feeling he was jazzed about the book you recommended because he saw the info as a way to get what he wanted, not meet her needs. I also don’t think there is an affair. I think the daughter and the sister are angling to freeze her out of an inheritance.

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

 

We also don’t know if she used to get up early to make breakfast when he was working. While that doesn’t give him a right to be angry, it does give him a reason to be.  On the days my husband goes to office, I wake up early to make coffee and sometimes go back to bed after that for a nap. If I did not wake up early, my husband would be wondering if I am sick or what happened. On the days he work from home, it is okay for him to have his coffee as and when I wake up since he isn’t driving. I am picky about coffee so I am the one making.

I know every family, every relationship, has its own routines and expectations. When we took the last kid off to college - gosh even before that, when our youngest got a job and was rarely home for dinner) - I had a sit down with dh. He seemed to assume that post kids in the house, we would keep sitting down to a home cooked family dinner with just the two of us.  So I took him on a walk down memory lane, back to the time before we had kids. When we were both working professionals and our life together - chores, meal prep and planning, or just eating out - was a partnership. I served our family well when the house was full. I have no desire to remain in servitude to one man. That, imo, diminishes our partnership. I imagine some of y’all will have tomatoes to throw, just sharing my own experience here. 

[Murphy101]

 

47 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

I know every family, every relationship, has its own routines and expectations. When we took the last kid off to college - gosh even before that, when our youngest got a job and was rarely home for dinner) - I had a sit down with dh. He seemed to assume that post kids in the house, we would keep sitting down to a home cooked family dinner with just the two of us.  So I took him on a walk down memory lane, back to the time before we had kids. When we were both working professionals and our life together - chores, meal prep and planning, or just eating out - was a partnership. I served our family well when the house was full. I have no desire to remain in servitude to one man. That, imo, diminishes our partnership. I imagine some of y’all will have tomatoes to throw, just sharing my own experience here. 

No tomatoes from me. I agree.

I don’t think anything going on with this couple is bc of retirement. It sounds like they have had issues for a very long time and retirement is just making those same problems more apparent.

He wanted to retire. Great. His wife needs to tell him that if he thought retirement meant switching from managing at employees to managing his wife - he was wrong.  If she doesn’t want to or feels she can’t inform him of that? Well I’ll be honest and say I’d start nodding and not saying much.  It’s her life and marriage.

This happens a LOT. One or both retire and one of them expects the other to keep on same as always. And that one doesn’t want to or can’t keep on same as always.

There’s lots of good reasons why so many people get divorced after 25 years of marriage. And it’s usually bc they decide they don’t want to put up with the same crap for another 25 years.  So something either has to change or she has to accept this is just what marriage is always going to be and be okay with accepting that.  And friends just have to lovingly accept whichever way it goes. 

[Clarita]

Depending on how close I am to them I might suggest a mediator/therapist (have a third party witness that has nothing to do with any inheritance). Find a way to create a safe space for both of them to just say the things they need to say to each other. 

I wonder if both husband and wife would feel safe doing that.

I've seen both situations one in which someone is in actual danger for making waves, but also situations in which there isn't actually any danger over making waves (discomfort but no "real" danger).  

[Scarlett]

5 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Why would he think she's lazy? I mean, what good is money if she's spending her days cooking and cleaning?

Maybe you don't feel comfortable answering this, but how much are they actually worth? Are we talking about hundreds of millions of dollars here? Or is it more like tens of millions of dollars? That makes a big difference in the amount of disposable income they have. 

I can assure you the lack of hiring helphas nothing to do with their lack of disposable income.  They have plenty. 

[Scarlett]

4 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I absolutely agree with you, but the question still remains -- why is she doing this work herself when she can hire people to do it for her? 

I think you ar missing the point.  She isn’t com0laining about the amount of work she does.  She is upset that he thinks she doesn’t do enough. And that he thinks she is lazy. 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

 

No tomatoes from me. I agree.

I don’t think anything going on with this couple is bc of retirement. It sounds like they have had issues for a very long time and retirement is just making those same problems more apparent.

He wanted to retire. Great. His wife needs to tell him that if he thought retirement meant switching from managing at employees to managing his wife - he was wrong.  If she doesn’t want to or feels she can’t inform him of that? Well I’ll be honest and say I’d start nodding and not saying much.  It’s her life and marriage.

This happens a LOT. One or both retire and one of them expects the other to keep on same as always. And that one doesn’t want to or can’t keep on same as always.

There’s lots of good reasons why so many people get divorced after 25 years of marriage. And it’s usually bc they decide they don’t want to put up with the same crap for another 25 years.  So something either has to change or she has to accept this is just what marriage is always going to be and be okay with accepting that.  And friends just have to lovingly accept whichever way it goes. 

All I know is she says he was perfect for over 10 years. Then they sold the company moved to her home town and his adult,daughter moved there. So I definitely think retirement and the daughter living near them has contributed. Also now he has all this time to think about what he thinks he should be getting out of a wife.  
 

It is truly a weird situation.

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Lecka said:

I think it sounds like he has a strong personality, but he also chose a meek woman?  And she is a meek woman, who chose a man with a strong personality?

Its one of those things where I think sometimes you can picture each person with a person with a different personality getting along in a different way.

And yet I think this is a fairly common pairing!  

 

I think it’s one where both sides need to work to go against their type to some extent, to keep from getting too meek and too domineering.  

He is very strong personality…but she is not really a shrinking Violet.  But he has started being so critical of her that she has shut down in an effort to keep the peace.  But it is not working. She is deeply unhappy.

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, scholastica said:

Gently, all the communicating in the world won’t help if the other person won’t listen because they only think of themselves and what they want. I get the feeling he was jazzed about the book you recommended because he saw the info as a way to get what he wanted, not meet her needs. I also don’t think there is an affair. I think the daughter and the sister are angling to freeze her out of an inheritance.

The daughter and sister cant get her disinherited.  She is his wife of over 20 years and she has rights. But they are not friends of the marriage if that makes sense.  But really it falls on him. He should be putting his adult daughter in her place.  

[marbel]

56 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

The daughter and sister cant get her disinherited.  She is his wife of over 20 years and she has rights. But they are not friends of the marriage if that makes sense.  But really it falls on him. He should be putting his adult daughter in her place.  

The daughter may be worried about her own inheritance. I can't be the only one who has known people who lost all family heirlooms and had no monetary inheritance after their father remarried, then died after willing everything to the second wife, who in turn kept everything and/or left it to her own kids. It doesn't just happen in Victorian novels.  

I'm not saying this is what's happening here, obviously, just it could be a factor/problem. 

 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I can assure you the lack of hiring helphas nothing to do with their lack of disposable income.  They have plenty. 

Then why isn’t she doing it? 

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I think you ar missing the point.  She isn’t com0laining about the amount of work she does.  She is upset that he thinks she doesn’t do enough. And that he thinks she is lazy. 

Is she lazy? What makes him think that? Is it just because she doesn’t get up at 5am? 

She doesn’t sound at all lazy to me. I’m wondering if his dd is putting all these ideas into his head. Can they move away from her, even for part of the year? 

Your friend better get a handle on the finances, because the dd might be convincing him to funnel money over to her. 

[Scarlett]

27 minutes ago, marbel said:

The daughter may be worried about her own inheritance. I can't be the only one who has known people who lost all family heirlooms and had no monetary inheritance after their father remarried, then died after willing everything to the second wife, who in turn kept everything and/or left it to her own kids. It doesn't just happen in Victorian novels.  

I'm not saying this is what's happening here, obviously, just it could be a factor/problem. 

 

Their two adult kids have already received  a ton of money—- early inheritance.  They are trust fund kids for sure.  

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Then why isn’t she doing it? 

Is she lazy? What makes him think that? Is it just because she doesn’t get up at 5am? 

She doesn’t sound at all lazy to me. I’m wondering if his dd is putting all these ideas into his head. Can they move away from her, even for part of the year? 

Your friend better get a handle on the finances, because the dd might be convincing him to funnel money over to her. 

She isn’t hiring more done because she is fine with what she does.  Just not with his attitude toward her.  

Edited September 20, 2022 by Scarlett

[Melissa in Australia]

I find the whole thing extremely weird

The husband is viewed badly cause he had a winge to a sibling... Who doesn't have the very occasional whinge about spouse to a sibling. I and my DH have always viewed that as the ok person to have a winge to. 

The wife is feeling overworked but still keeps 2 dogs inside and does heaps of entertaing.  Seems like she is making a load for her own back. 

The husband isn't suppose to complain to anyone but the wife is? 

The thread title seems to suggest that the cause is retirement. I am not so sure. Vey strange

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Melissa in Australia

[Scarlett]

28 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I find the whole thing extremely weird

The husband is viewed badly cause he had a winge to a sibling... Who doesn't have the very occasional whinge about spouse to a sibling. I and my DH have always viewed that as the ok person to have a winge to. 

The wife is feeling overworked but still keeps 2 dogs inside and does heaps of entertaing.  Seems like she is making a load for her own back. 

The husband isn't suppose to complain to anyone but the wife is? 

The thread title seems to suggest that the cause is retirement. I am not so sure. Vey strange

 

He entertains.  
 

And it was the nature of his venting….it was lies.  And she feels betrayed.  
 

[Scarlett]

29 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I find the whole thing extremely weird

The husband is viewed badly cause he had a winge to a sibling... Who doesn't have the very occasional whinge about spouse to a sibling. I and my DH have always viewed that as the ok person to have a winge to. 

The wife is feeling overworked but still keeps 2 dogs inside and does heaps of entertaing.  Seems like she is making a load for her own back. 

The husband isn't suppose to complain to anyone but the wife is? 

The thread title seems to suggest that the cause is retirement. I am not so sure. Vey strange

 

And I don’t know if it is retirement. She thinks it started around that t8me

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I absolutely agree with you, but the question still remains -- why is she doing this work herself when she can hire people to do it for her? 

I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I can speak to one possibility with this because I have witnessed it. A couple I know very well (DINK) we’re on the brink of divorce and one of their chief complaints was that she wanted to hire domestic help and he did not want to pay for that. They had gobs of disposable income, and her portion was a lush as his if not more so, but his issue was: he grew up with a depression-era, frugal, extremely hardworking mother. His mother would not have paid someone to clean toilets or mow the yard in a thousand years. So, in his mind, paying people to take care of things you could obviously do yourself was perceived as “laziness” and “wasteful”. 
 

I don’t know if the couple mentioned in this thread has similar mental scripts but it’s a reminder that people *do* have scripts. The ways people spend money and what they think is right to spend money on can be very deeply psychological. It is not always directly related to how many actual dollars they have.

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I find the whole thing extremely weird

The husband is viewed badly cause he had a winge to a sibling... Who doesn't have the very occasional whinge about spouse to a sibling. I and my DH have always viewed that as the ok person to have a winge to. 

The wife is feeling overworked but still keeps 2 dogs inside and does heaps of entertaing.  Seems like she is making a load for her own back. 

The husband isn't suppose to complain to anyone but the wife is? 

The thread title seems to suggest that the cause is retirement. I am not so sure. Vey strange

 

You know, I hadn't thought about that until you mentioned it -- the wife thinks it's ok that she is complaining to Scarlett, who is her friend, yet she is angry that her dh is complaining to his own daughter and sister. I agree that it doesn't seem fair. 

I know Scarlett mentioned that the wife thinks her dh's complaints are untrue, but in his mind, maybe they are true. Maybe they just see things very differently. 

[Catwoman]

28 minutes ago, Quill said:

I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I can speak to one possibility with this because I have witnessed it. A couple I know very well (DINK) we’re on the brink of divorce and one of their chief complaints was that she wanted to hire domestic help and he did not want to pay for that. They had gobs of disposable income, and her portion was a lush as his if not more so, but his issue was: he grew up with a depression-era, frugal, extremely hardworking mother. His mother would not have paid someone to clean toilets or mow the yard in a thousand years. So, in his mind, paying people to take care of things you could obviously do yourself was perceived as “laziness” and “wasteful”. 
 

I don’t know if the couple mentioned in this thread has similar mental scripts but it’s a reminder that people *do* have scripts. The ways people spend money and what they think is right to spend money on can be very deeply psychological. It is not always directly related to how many actual dollars they have.

I agree that people have different mindsets on things like this, but in this case, Scarlett's friend has cancer, so I would think her dh would be more sympathetic to her, and would want her to take it easy in order to try to stay healthy. 

I mean, even if he would expect her to do all of these things under normal circumstances, he should be treating her differently because he knows she is ill. Her illness should make him want to take care of her, not make him want her to take care of him!

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Catwoman
I can't type

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

She isn’t hiring more done because she is fine with what she does.  Just not with his attitude toward her.  

I just noticed your post where you said their house was only around 6,000 square feet. I was picturing a big mansion for some reason. I can understand why she feels she can deal with that size house. I'm surprised that she does, though -- I would assume that most of her friends and neighbors have housekeepers and landscapers. I think there is only one guy in our neighborhood who does his own gardening, and even he has a lawn service. Everyone always had housekeepers, too, but since Covid, a few of us don't want help in the house any more. 

But I'm still wondering why he seems to think she's lazy. It sounds like she cooks and cleans and entertains and has overnight guests -- that's a LOT! What more does he expect???

And I can't help it. I keep coming back to her having cancer, and I think he should be bending over backward to make sure she doesn't overdo things, rather than thinking she should be doing even more than she already is. 

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Their two adult kids have already received  a ton of money—- early inheritance.  They are trust fund kids for sure.  

I think it's nice that they have already given their kids a lot of money. Why not help them while they are young and can really use it and enjoy it?

[KungFuPanda]

This guy is really grossing me out. He has all the time in the world and he uses it to berate his sick wife? Then he be rings friends in on the discussion? It’s weird and cruel and id bet money that this is only phase one of . . . something. 
 

There’s something seriously off about him if he truly believes that housework is what his wife should be bringing to the marriage. Maybe they should take a trip with just the two of them do they can talk and reconnect. It sounds like they have the funds for a really good marriage counseling retreat. Why on earth would he drag Scarlett into this? It’s just weird. 

[Scarlett]

17 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I just noticed your post where you said their house was only around 6,000 square feet. I was picturing a big mansion for some reason. I can understand why she feels she can deal with that size house. I'm surprised that she does, though -- I would assume that most of her friends and neighbors have housekeepers and landscapers. I think there is only one guy in our neighborhood who does his own gardening, and even he has a lawn service. Everyone always had housekeepers, too, but since Covid, a few of us don't want help in the house any more. 

But I'm still wondering why he seems to think she's lazy. It sounds like she cooks and cleans and entertains and has overnight guests -- that's a LOT! What more does he expect???

And I can't help it. I keep coming back to her having cancer, and I think he should be bending over backward to make sure she doesn't overdo things, rather than thinking she should be doing even more than she already is. 

Money comes in a lot of colors and flavors Cat.  This is not a neighborhood.They own a mountain. A lot of land. Their neighbors are their kids.  It is a town of 5000.  
 

Her people are her family….and me. None have anywhere near the money they have.  
 

On her best day pre cancer she doesn’t have the energy he has.  He is just high energy,  driven type A personality.  

[Catwoman]

11 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

This guy is really grossing me out. He has all the time in the world and he uses it to berate his sick wife? Then he be rings friends in on the discussion? It’s weird and cruel and id bet money that this is only phase one of . . . something. 
 

There’s something seriously off about him if he truly believes that housework is what his wife should be bringing to the marriage. Maybe they should take a trip with just the two of them do they can talk and reconnect. It sounds like they have the funds for a really good marriage counseling retreat. Why on earth would he drag Scarlett into this? It’s just weird. 

I really like the idea of something like an extended vacation -- like maybe touring around Europe for a few months or something. It might help them reconnect.

[Scarlett]

21 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I think it's nice that they have already given their kids a lot of money. Why not help them while they are young and can really use it and enjoy it?

I agree.  And my friend was completely on board. The daughter though was disgusted that anyone think she should ‘thank’ her stepmother.

[Scarlett]

36 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

You know, I hadn't thought about that until you mentioned it -- the wife thinks it's ok that she is complaining to Scarlett, who is her friend, yet she is angry that her dh is complaining to his own daughter and sister. I agree that it doesn't seem fair. 

I know Scarlett mentioned that the wife thinks her dh's complaints are untrue, but in his mind, maybe they are true. Maybe they just see things very differently. 

I think the difference is she feels his vents are lies.but she does believe that he believes his lies.

[Scarlett]

14 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

This guy is really grossing me out. He has all the time in the world and he uses it to berate his sick wife? Then he be rings friends in on the discussion? It’s weird and cruel and id bet money that this is only phase one of . . . something. 
 

There’s something seriously off about him if he truly believes that housework is what his wife should be bringing to the marriage. Maybe they should take a trip with just the two of them do they can talk and reconnect. It sounds like they have the funds for a really good marriage counseling retreat. Why on earth would he drag Scarlett into this? It’s just weird. 

Lol well…because he thinks he is in the right.  

[Annie G]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I really like the idea of something like an extended vacation -- like maybe touring around Europe for a few months or something. It might help them reconnect.

Reconnecting is a great idea, but I’d start small. Being together 24/7 on an extended trip could backfire on the ‘connecting’ aspect. But a week or two somewhere might be a great way to start reconnecting. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Money comes in a lot of colors and flavors Cat.  This is not a neighborhood.They own a mountain. A lot of land. Their neighbors are their kids.  It is a town of 5000.  
 

Her people are her family….and me. None have anywhere near the money they have.  
 

On her best day pre cancer she doesn’t have the energy he has.  He is just high energy,  driven type A personality.  

Ok, but don't they have similarly successful friends or family? Doesn't her dh see that the wives of his male friends and business associates aren't spending their days cooking and cleaning?

And if he has always had more energy than she had, even before she got sick, why is it an issue now? 

I can't help but suspect that the daughter is trying to drive a wedge between them.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Annie G said:

Reconnecting is a great idea, but I’d start small. Being together 24/7 on an extended trip could backfire on the ‘connecting’ aspect. But a week or two somewhere might be a great way to start reconnecting. 

They just spent a week alone together in CO.  After a week with my Dh and me.  
This European cruise he is planning….with 25 or more people….including his sister….and his daughter….my friend doesn’t want to go.  So I told her, then don’t go.

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Annie G said:

Reconnecting is a great idea, but I’d start small. Being together 24/7 on an extended trip could backfire on the ‘connecting’ aspect. But a week or two somewhere might be a great way to start reconnecting. 

I was thinking that a few months away from his daughter and his sister might do him a world of good, and get his focus back on his marriage. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

Ok, but don't they have similarly successful friends or family? Doesn't her dh see that the wives of his male friends and business associates aren't spending their days cooking and cleaning?

And if he has always had more energy than she had, even before she got sick, why is it an issue now? 

I can't help but suspect that the daughter is trying to drive a wedge between them.

Their friends are not similarly successful if you are talking money.  They aren’t that kind of people.  Either of them are interested in finding friends in their tax bracket…..they want their tried and true family and friends.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

They just spent a week alone together in CO.  After a week with my Dh and me.  
This European cruise he is planning….with 25 or more people….including his sister….and his daughter….my friend doesn’t want to go.  So I told her, then don’t go.

Ok, wait. He planned a trip for 25 people without consulting with her first and getting her agreement???

That was a rotten thing to do!!!