Can we discuss what retirement does to marriage?

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

I was thinking that a few months away from his daughter and his sister might do him a world of good, and get his focus back on his marriage. 

Exactly. I told him that a year ago.  Back away from your sister and daughter.Focus on your wife.,

[Catwoman]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I agree.  And my friend was completely on board. The daughter though was disgusted that anyone think she should ‘thank’ her stepmother.

Ok, and now we know exactly where the problem lies.

It's the daughter.

She's trying to get rid of your friend. She wants all of the money for herself.

Uh oh. This is BAD.

[Scarlett]

Just now, Catwoman said:

Ok, wait. He planned a trip for 25 people without consulting with her first and getting her agreement???

That was a rotten thing to do!!!

Yes!  He has been doing this kind of thing now for several years…..just makes plans.  Most recent a family reunion ( his family) where the base camp was their home.  So only his father and brother stayed with them….the others ( maybe 50 total) stayed in resort cabins and such nearby.  But a lot happened at their house.  Several meals, hanging out next.  He did not clear it with my friend first.  

[Catwoman]

Scarlett, the more I hear about this, the more I think it's incredibly important for your friend to get involved in the finances. She needs to know where all of the money is, and she needs to know whose name it's in, and she needs to know YESTERDAY.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Yes!  He has been doing this kind of thing now for several years…..just makes plans.  Most recent a family reunion ( his family) where the base camp was their home.  So only his father and brother stayed with them….the others ( maybe 50 total) stayed in resort cabins and such nearby.  But a lot happened at their house.  Several meals, hanging out next.  He did not clear it with my friend first.  

I have been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he sounds like a world class selfish, entitled jerk.

Has your friend ever considered divorce?

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

Ok, and now we know exactly where the problem lies.

It's the daughter.

She's trying to get rid of your friend. She wants all of the money for herself.

Uh oh. This is BAD.

There is a lot of fault with the daughter.  But more with him for not establishing proper boundaries with her.  
 

Either way ‘getting rid ‘ of my friend won’t yield the daughter substantially more money.  My friend has rights. She can’t be cut out of the vast wealth.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

I have been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but he sounds like a world class selfish, entitled jerk.

Has your friend ever considered divorce?

She is getting close.  She is very fed up.  I want to shake him. He is taking the most loyal person I know and making her hate him.  

[Murphy101]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

They just spent a week alone together in CO.  After a week with my Dh and me.  
This European cruise he is planning….with 25 or more people….including his sister….and his daughter….my friend doesn’t want to go.  So I told her, then don’t go.

Yikes.

Honestly it sounds like he is going over the top to reconnect in retirement with literally everyone and may be feeling rejected bc wife isn’t as enthusiastic about it as him.  Men often express emotional pain as anger and criticism.  He may just be a grade A turd of a guy but it probably wouldn’t hurt for her to make him breakfast and discuss this.

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Murphy101

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

There is a lot of fault with the daughter.  But more with him for not establishing proper boundaries with her.  
 

Either way ‘getting rid ‘ of my friend won’t yield the daughter substantially more money.  My friend has rights. She can’t be cut out of the vast wealth.  

The daughter may not realize that. She might just want your friend gone, and she may assume your friend will be too stupid or weak to demand the settlement she deserves. It doesn't sound like your friend's dh has much respect for your friend, so it stands to reason that his dd doesn't, either.

[Scarlett]

We talked about the money.  I said, well, he can’t cut you out completely and really how much money do you need.  She agreed and said she doesn’t need that much to live.  She loves her many many vacations….and taking her friends and family,,,,,,but basically besides that needs very  little to live. I told her she would get half his SS….and she said, yeah I could live  in my son’s shop.  It made me very sad that she is even thinking that way.  

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

She is getting close.  She is very fed up.  I want to shake him. He is taking the most loyal person I know and making her hate him.  

If she is even remotely considering leaving him, she really needs to get her ducks in a row and know exactly where the money is, as well as how much life insurance he has, and about any assets he might have, that she doesn't know about.

If she leaves him, this is clearly not a guy who is going to willingly give her half of everything. He's going to try to cheat her. He will be her mortal enemy if he thinks he has to part with his money. She needs to be prepared, because as soon as he gets the slightest suspicion that she might leave him, he's going to start moving the money. 

I have seen this happen. I don't want it to happen to your friend!

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Yikes.

Honestly it sounds like he is going over the top to reconnect in retirement with literally everyone and may be feeling rejected bc wife isn’t as enthusiastic about it as him.  Men often express emotional pain as anger and criticism.  He may just be a grade A turd of a guy but it probably wouldn’t hurt for her to make him breakfast and discuss this.

 

Honestly I can’t even say he is a turd of a guy.  He was one of the few that directly talked to my now xh during our divorce and told him, ‘ dude you are making the biggest mistake of your life’.  Xh of course was all stupid, but later admitted to friends husband yes it had been a big mistake.  

I agree they need to have a conversation.  Desperately. 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

We talked about the money.  I said, well, he can’t cut you out completely and really how much money do you need.  She agreed and said she doesn’t need that much to live.  She loves her many many vacations….and taking her friends and family,,,,,,but basically besides that needs very  little to live. I told her she would get half his SS….and she said, yeah I could live  in my son’s shop.  It made me very sad that she is even thinking that way.  

Noooooooooo!

This isn't about how much money she needs to live. This is about getting her fair share of the money that was earned during their marriage. This is about her having money to leave to her child and grandchildren. This is about fairness! Why should he and his daughter get all of the benefits, when your friend was right there all those years, taking care of everything else, while he was building his business?

She needs a serious change of attitude. She needs a barracuda of an attorney to convince her to fight for what is rightfully hers.

[Catwoman]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

We talked about the money.  I said, well, he can’t cut you out completely and really how much money do you need.  She agreed and said she doesn’t need that much to live.  She loves her many many vacations….and taking her friends and family,,,,,,but basically besides that needs very  little to live. I told her she would get half his SS….and she said, yeah I could live  in my son’s shop.  It made me very sad that she is even thinking that way.  

Who cares about his social security when he has millions and millions of dollars? 

The social security is pocket change! 

[Scarlett]

Just now, Catwoman said:

Noooooooooo!

This isn't about how much money she needs to live. This is about getting her fair share of the money that was earned during their marriage. This is about her having money to leave to her child and grandchildren. This is about fairness! Why should he and his daughter get all of the benefits, when your friend was right there all those years, taking care of everything else, while he was building his business?

She needs a serious change of attitude. She needs a barracuda of an attorney to convince her to fight for what is rightfully hers.

I know.  And it won’t come to that.  Seriously there is so much freaking money why would she ever think she has to live in her son’s shop.  
 

About year ago when she spent three weeks in the Bahamas….he had a very bad dream in which she had left him for another man.  He was very remorseful and agreeable for many months….but fell back into his habits of running the show.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

Who cares about his social security when he has millions and millions of dollars? 

The social security is pocket change! 

Yes I am aware Cat.  I said it tongue in cheek….,,she seemed to take me seriously.

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes I am aware Cat.  I said it tongue in cheek….,,she seemed to take me seriously.

It's so sad that she doesn't seem to place enough value on herself, nor on her contributions to the marriage. 😞 

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I know.  And it won’t come to that.  Seriously there is so much freaking money why would she ever think she has to live in her son’s shop.  
 

About year ago when she spent three weeks in the Bahamas….he had a very bad dream in which she had left him for another man.  He was very remorseful and agreeable for many months….but fell back into his habits of running the show.  

So he loves her, but he doesn't respect her? Is that it, do you think?

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

So he loves her, but he doesn't respect her? Is that it, do you think?

He does love her.  But he sometimes lets his arrogance get the best of him.  And starts assigning more value to himself than is warranted. 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

It's so sad that she doesn't seem to place enough value on herself, nor on her contributions to the marriage. 😞 

Yes…..just like her first marriage.  

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Yes…..just like her first marriage.  

I'm sure her dh would see it as a sign of weakness, but has she considered counseling to help with her self-esteem issues?

I can't help but wonder if her dh might actually respect her more, if she stood up to him more often. Maybe she has been a doormat for so long, and has always been so agreeable, that he just makes plans without asking her because he assumes she will go along with whatever he does.

I'm not excusing his behavior, but if someone always goes along with what you say, it's easy to start taking advantage of that person's good nature, even when you're not doing it intentionally.

 

[Scarlett]

22 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Scarlett, the more I hear about this, the more I think it's incredibly important for your friend to get involved in the finances. She needs to know where all of the money is, and she needs to know whose name it's in, and she needs to know YESTERDAY.

I agree she needs to know more about the money.  I mean I would start with asking did he set up an irrevocable trust for the grandkids and how much? 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

I'm sure her dh would see it as a sign of weakness, but has she considered counseling to help with her self-esteem issues?

I can't help but wonder if her dh might actually respect her more, if she stood up to him more often. Maybe she has been a doormat for so long, and has always been so agreeable, that he just makes plans without asking her because he assumes she will go along with whatever he does.

I'm not excusing his behavior, but if someone always goes along with what you say, it's easy to start taking advantage of that person's good nature, even when you're not doing it intentionally.

 

Yes….I am trying to get her in to a counselor…..she wants to but is scared.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

I agree she needs to know more about the money.  I mean I would start with asking did he set up an irrevocable trust for the grandkids and how much? 

Absolutely! Half of that money is hers, whether he likes it or not, and she deserves to be consulted about these things.

I keep coming back to him doing these things on his own because she has never seemed to care in the past, and it doesn't even dawn on him to discuss financial matters with her. I mean, I can't even blame the guy for that, if she always acts like she wouldn't understand anyway. She needs to tell him she wants to learn!

Edited September 21, 2022 by Catwoman

[Annie G]

Did he own the business before they were married? If so, does that make it separate property vs marital property? 
He could definitely reduce the amount he’d have to share w her in a divorce by setting up trusts for the grandkids. He can do that even out of joint accounts without her permission. I mean, dh and I have joint investment accounts but either of us alone can withdraw from them or change how they’re invested. 
You mentioned he told her when they married that he was adding her to the accounts. Does she have proof he ever actually did that? Or maybe he just made her a beneficiary, which he can change. 
She is entitled to a fair share if they divorce, but with her low self esteem, she might not even pursue her share.  I’ve seen it happen…it’s so wrong, but it happens.
The whole situation is such a mess. I feel for her. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I'm sure her dh would see it as a sign of weakness, but has she considered counseling to help with her self-esteem issues?

I can't help but wonder if her dh might actually respect her more, if she stood up to him more often. Maybe she has been a doormat for so long, and has always been so agreeable, that he just makes plans without asking her because he assumes she will go along with whatever he does.

I'm not excusing his behavior, but if someone always goes along with what you say, it's easy to start taking advantage of that person's good nature, even when you're not doing it intentionally.

 

Also I don’t think he would see it as weakness…..he has agreed to counseling…..but they haven’t set it up yet.

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Also I don’t think he would see it as weakness…..he has agreed to counseling…..but they haven’t set it up yet.

That's a very good sign! 

You see them together. Does she seem meek and submissive around him? Does she let him make all of the decisions? I'm not sensing an equal partnership here.

[Scarlett]

Just now, Annie G said:

Did he own the business before they were married? If so, does that make it separate property vs marital property? 
He could definitely reduce the amount he’d have to share w her in a divorce by setting up trusts for the grandkids. He can do that even out of joint accounts without her permission. I mean, dh and I have joint investment accounts but either of us alone can withdraw from them or change how they’re invested. 
You mentioned he told her when they married that he was adding her to the accounts. Does she have proof he ever actually did that? Or maybe he just made her a beneficiary, which he can change. 
She is entitled to a fair share if they divorce, but with her low self esteem, she might not even pursue her share.  I’ve seen it happen…it’s so wrong, but it happens.
The whole situation is such a mess. I feel for her. 

He owned a business when they married. Many others were added and the values increased by A LOT before it was sold.  He thinks she doesn’t understand that….but she does.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

That's a very good sign! 

You see them together. Does she seem meek and submissive around him? Does she let him make all of the decisions? I'm not sensing an equal partnership here.

She is not meek and submissive.  Not at all.  It is difficult to explain.  But he does tend to run over her.  And he doesn’t like it when she corrects him in any way.  For instance he had a cutting board out upside down…you know? The drain side was down. She flipped it over for him and he was offended…

As if she had just emasculated him. 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

He owned a business when they married. Many others were added and the values increased by A LOT before it was sold.  He thinks she doesn’t understand that….but she does.

It doesn't matter any more, anyway, because he sold the business and the money belongs to your friend as much as it belongs to him.

But she had better make sure she knows where all of the accounts are! He could have money all over the world, for all she knows. A lot of it will be easy enough for an expert to trace, but if he has been funneling money to his sister and his daughter... that's not good for your friend.

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

She is not meek and submissive.  Not at all.  It is difficult to explain.  But he does tend to run over her.  And he doesn’t like it when she corrects him in any way.  For instance he had a cutting board out upside down…you know? The drain side was down. She flipped it over for him and he was offended…

As if she had just emasculated him. 

Ugh.

He needs to get over himself.

It sounds like he has a serious ego problem, possibly from too many years of having yes-man employees suck up to him and act like he was perfect.

[Scarlett]

Just now, Catwoman said:

It doesn't matter any more, anyway, because he sold the business and the money belongs to your friend as much as it belongs to him.

But she had better make sure she knows where all of the accounts are! He could have money all over the world, for all she knows. A lot of it will be easy enough for an expert to trace, but if he has been funneling money to his sister and his daughter... that's not good for your friend.

And I doubt that.  That isn’t the concern here.  Really I hope I haven’t misrepresented him as some sort of thief. It is attitudes more than anything,  

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

And I doubt that.  That isn’t the concern here.  Really I hope I haven’t misrepresented him as some sort of thief. It is attitudes more than anything,  

I'm just trying to think ahead -- his dd might very well be trying to make him suspicious of every little thing your friend does, so she might be trying to convince him to put money in her name for safekeeping. 

[Lecka]

I just think — at a certain point this is a grown man, who should know better than so many things.

And while it would be great if he weren’t a jerk doing jerk things — it just seems like there are so many convolutions required to not say he seems like a jerk.  
 

At a certain point — he’s not the one trying to improve the situation in thoughtful ways.  
 

If he were — it would be so different.

 

He probably likes his daughter just as she is — he has got her living on a family compound!  It’s just something where he has got someone who will be built-in on his side but how much of that is by his design or of not design, collusion or enjoyment or sense that it’s good for his daughter to live in a family compound with him and take his side over his wife.  
 

Her behavior didn’t happen in a vaccuum.  
 

Still I hope he will seek reconciliation with his wife.  I think it’s possible but it takes both sides, and sometimes one side is just not willing.  
 

I have a sister where her entire life she is the one my dad has favored and presented things to her according his version of events, and she is really molded by him in some ways.  And she is loyal to him!  I think she is more loyal because she has witnessed him reject her mother (ex-wife) and he has rejected some other people, too.  Well, sometimes that does build loyalty.  It’s not that I think he’s some Machiavelli figure, but he can definitely like it when things go his way and people take his side. 

 

If the ex-wife/mom of the daughter is not some horrible person, the daughter has really sided with or chosen her father in a big way, to live on a family compound with him.  I think it’s possible he has used money to manipulate her or it’s possible he has just taken an opportunity to have his relationship with her at the expense of his ex-wife’s.  It “can” be a controlling thing to do.  It can also be a kind and generous thing to do, with goodwill, and an effort to make the daughter have a positive relationship with both sides.  
 

Well, that’s not what happened with my dad and sister.  He does desire that she will favor him over my mother.  He does do actions to go in that direction.  But it’s also true that he’s not doing horrible things — it just happens that this is an outcome, too.  
 

But I think there is really something happening, sometimes, when a daughter sees her mom rejected and then wants to stay in her dad’s good graces.  
 

He is someone who cares a lot about loyalty, but he is fickle for himself, while holding other people to a different standard.  
 

At the same time, my dad had behavior like this since he was in his 20s.  It’s just — would someone know about it or not?  Someone who knew him very well for a long time, would know.  Well, if they had seen that side of him.  It’s not something he just started doing at an older age.  But there are people who have known him 20+ years, well, and never seen that side of him.  

[Catwoman]

I have to say that the more I think about this, the more I think his dd and his sister are playing a big role here. They may be encouraging him to vent to them, so they can use any information he gives them as a way to undermine your friend.

I could be totally off-base here, but if a couple has been married as long as your friend has been married to her dh, that dd should have fallen over herself thanking your friend for that early inheritance money. 

 

[Catwoman]

Just jumping off of what @Lecka just posted -- is your friend's dh still in touch with his first wife? Is his dd close to her mom? Her mom could be the one encouraging her to get the money while she can, and to try to cut your friend out as much as possible.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I have to say that the more I think about this, the more I think his dd and his sister are playing a big role here. They may be encouraging him to vent to them, so they can use any information he gives them as a way to undermine your friend.

I could be totally off-base here, but if a couple has been married as long as your friend has been married to her dh, that dd should have fallen over herself thanking your friend for that early inheritance money. 

 

The daughter is a huge problem.  The sister is in some ways more of a problem. My friend has said many times, ‘ I would have been a mother figure to my step daughter but she would never allow it.’  The daughter has a problem with my friend but my friend has always not cared…….because she felt secure in her marriage. Now she cares because her marriage is very unstable. And her husband seems to cater to his daughter.  

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Just jumping off of what @Lecka just posted -- is your friend's dh still in touch with his first wife? Is his dd close to her mom? Her mom could be the one encouraging her to get the money while she can, and to try to cut your friend out as much as possible.

He is not in contact with her.  He paid her a great sum of money in his divorce….he was still paying it when he married my friend.

 

 

 

[Lecka]

That is interesting.

I think that’s a rough situation to have in a family compound!

And parents can be very loyal to their children, too, even when their children are in the wrong.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Lecka said:

That is interesting.

I think that’s a rough situation to have in a family compound!

And parents can be very loyal to their children, too, even when their children are in the wrong.  

Lol Interesting is a great word.  Thank you for that. 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Lecka said:

That is interesting.

I think that’s a rough situation to have in a family compound!

And parents can be very loyal to their children, too, even when their children are in the wrong.  

Yes, and Scarlett's friend is never getting rid of the dd if she's living right there. 

Scarlett, can your friend convince her dh to buy a little condo in Florida (or anyplace far away from the dd,) as their personal romantic hideaway? You know, a nice ONE BEDROOM place with no room for guests!

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

Yes, and Scarlett's friend is never getting rid of the dd if she's living right there. 

Scarlett, can your friend convince her dh to buy a little condo in Florida (or anyplace far away from the dd,) as their personal romantic hideaway? You know, a nice ONE BEDROOM place with no room for guests!

That will never happen. This is my friends hometown….and mine. All her family is there,  

[BusyMom5]

Wow, everyone is jumping to lots of conclusions!  We can never know what goes on in another marriage.  For each point I write below, I could give at least one example where I saw this in a close friend or family member.

1.  Lots of money can make good people do horrible things to each other.  It can turn brothers and sisters against each other.  Step-parents and Step-sibling relationships can be torn apart over money- or the possibility of having to share inheritance.  It makes loving people suspicious of each other.  I never want our kids to know how much money we have (and we are not as wealthy as your friends), or to expect a large inheritance. Ive scene situations like this ruin a generation or two of hard-working families.  Grandpa works hard, gives too much to kids,  grandkids and kids, snd great-grandkids are just spoiled to ever working for themselves.  

2.  In traditional marriage arrangements,  where the wife does all the house stuff while the husband goes to work everyday, its almost impossible for the man to see all the wife does.  And because its been done for years, with no monetary compensation attached, it often isn't valued.  I'm not sure how to fix this,  as my marriage is working on this issue (after seeing what happens by ages 60-70!).  I'm hoping (and having some progress), but I don't think my husband will ever truly understand all that I did and still do.  

3.  Illnesses,  particularly longer, silent ones, are stressful on everyone.  The one with the illness feels like no one cares after so long,  and that they must suffer in silence.  The other partner and family members get frustrated bc they don't understand why the ill person doesn't just do more, or try all kinds of weird treatments.   I'm convinced that my grandpa is mad that my grandma has an immune system disorder, and so are some of her kids.  They say awful things to her "If you just....." but honestly there is nothing she can do- there is no cure.  They also do not offer to help (see point 2).  She still cooks and cleans everything.... but she also refuses help from me!  Which brings me to point 4...

4.  Often people have a very hard time hiring help to do chores they have always done. Not sure if its pride in their work,  not wanting to hand over the responsibility, or even a feeling of loss- a loss if their identity.  If you are no longer the Cook and Housekeeper,  then what is your role?  It can often be complicated and your friend may be having a hard time with this herself.  It can also be hard to watch someone do a job not to your satisfaction!  

5.  Men who hold powerful positions and are used to "bossing" and may try to boss their spouse when they retire.  (I can personally attest that I've had to tell my DH he is not my boss!  I ran this household for 20 years while he worked,  he never helped with the house or the kids, so do not tell me how to do it!  Honestly he doesn't know how anyway,  and he doesn't want to learn,  but he just needs someone to boss sometimes).   It can also be very weird, like a loss of identity, purpose, youth, vigor.  If he has a few health issues himself, he may be having and even harder time coming to grip with his mortality and his movement into this phase of life.  I personally think COVID has made this worse, as everyone this age knows someone who died from it who was 50-60.  I'm not sure he would even be able to articulate all of this,  but I've scene it in men this age.  

6.  There is never a good reason for one spouse to not know where all the money is.  It sounds like this is the fault of both of them- they did not start their marriage with sharing finances, and now its grown so big and complicated,  your friend feels overwhelmed by it all.  The husband doesn't want to share,  he may even feel that managing it is his "job " now.

If it were me giving advice,  I'd tell the husband to focus on his wife and get his marriage back on track.  I'd tell my friend to hire out more, and stop doing stuff like that- focus her healthy days to fun and vacation.  YOLO!  Id tell both of them to ignore the kids and the family members, snd tell the husband to find another place to vent about his wife.  I'd suggest he learn to cook, too. 

[Catwoman]

26 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

That will never happen. This is my friends hometown….and mine. All her family is there,  

I don’t mean they should move there; I just meant that they could spend some vacation time there a few times a year, to get him away from his dd and sister. 

[Grace Hopper]

10 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Very true. In my auntie's case there was no reason to be around him. He was not going to help, he expected her to do everything, her health was waning and she had to go back to work just to escape his constant criticism, and he literally gave her no incentive to be with him. Two years after she went back to work, she filed for divorce. He was stunned. His own sons said things like, "We always wondered why mom didn't do it sooner. You really are a jackass to her." 

She got half his pension, but gave him the house no strings attached, moved into a tiny apartment that she liked because it would be so simple to take care of, and enjoys being free of the constant derision.

I can totally understand that. Women do not exist to be mules for men, even if the men think it should be so.

What age was your aunt when she did this?

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

If she is even remotely considering leaving him, she really needs to get her ducks in a row and know exactly where the money is, as well as how much life insurance he has, and about any assets he might have, that she doesn't know about.

If she leaves him, this is clearly not a guy who is going to willingly give her half of everything. He's going to try to cheat her. He will be her mortal enemy if he thinks he has to part with his money. She needs to be prepared, because as soon as he gets the slightest suspicion that she might leave him, he's going to start moving the money. 

I have seen this happen. I don't want it to happen to your friend!

While he’s off with his 25 best friends she could use that time to gather paperwork, and pop in on the financial advisors and/or an attorney. Just to know where she stands, kwim? If he finds out, just knowing she made those visits and sought information could be enough to shake him out of this poor behavior. And if it enrages him, at least she has her ducks in a row for whatever choice she wants to make from there. 
 

I don’t urge divorce. But sometimes drastic times call for drastic measures, kwim? Getting his attention, putting him on notice. 
 

In your shoes I wouldn’t give any more advice to either of them other than to continue encouraging her to set an appointment with the counselor as you have recommended. 

[Scarlett]

7 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I don’t mean they should move there; I just meant that they could spend some vacation time there a few times a year, to get him away from his dd and sister. 

He would just want to invite friends. Lol 

[Scarlett]

7 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

 

If it were me giving advice,  I'd tell the husband to focus on his wife and get his marriage back on track.  I'd tell my friend to hire out more, and stop doing stuff like that- focus her healthy days to fun and vacation.  YOLO!  Id tell both of them to ignore the kids and the family members, snd tell the husband to find another place to vent about his wife.  I'd suggest he learn to cook, too. 

Thank you that was a great post and I do see some of all of that in this couple.  That is exactly the advice I gave him…..as far as hiring more stuff out…..I will have to ask her how much she is doing herself.  I mean, you can’t hire someone to be there at 7:30 p.m to offer your husband something to eat for him to then say he isn’t hungry anyway! Lol….it is kind of crazy the things he fixates on.  They are very busy and do a lot of trips. So often times they aren’t home for dinner….or they eat a late lunch and neither wants to eat dinner.  

[Scarlett]

7 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

While he’s off with his 25 best friends she could use that time to gather paperwork, and pop in on the financial advisors and/or an attorney. Just to know where she stands, kwim? If he finds out, just knowing she made those visits and sought information could be enough to shake him out of this poor behavior. And if it enrages him, at least she has her ducks in a row for whatever choice she wants to make from there. 
 

I don’t urge divorce. But sometimes drastic times call for drastic measures, kwim? Getting his attention, putting him on notice. 
 

In your shoes I wouldn’t give any more advice to either of them other than to continue encouraging her to set an appointment with the counselor as you have recommended. 

That trip isn’t happening until next year and I think she needs to know more now.  And they live about a 5 hour drive to their financial guy..  she can’t just pop in.  But she can ask her son for some info.  And she can go look at some things in his office.  

[marbel]

11 hours ago, Scarlett said:

She is not meek and submissive.  Not at all.  It is difficult to explain.  But he does tend to run over her.  And he doesn’t like it when she corrects him in any way.  For instance he had a cutting board out upside down…you know? The drain side was down. She flipped it over for him and he was offended…

As if she had just emasculated him. 

For people who are used to being in charge and right all the time (whether they are truly right or if people are just always telling them they are) it can be hard to be shown to be wrong. I'm not excusing the behavior, just saying I have seen it and understand it. 

But, what big difference does it make if the cutting board is upside down? I mean, if he's carving a roast then juice will drip, and he'll have to clean it up. If he's cutting up a lime for cocktail, no harm done.  I sometimes don't bother to place the cutting board correctly with the drain rim up if it's not needed and I just happen to put it on the counter upside down. I'd be annoyed if my husband decided to fix that for me. I'd get over it quickly and he probably wouldn't even know I was annoyed, so I don't think the husband was correct to be offended. But it seems rather a petty thing. But those petty things can be love - and marriage - breakers.

This is unimportant and I'm wildly speculating, as we all (except Scarlett) are at this point. But it was just an interesting point to me.  

Or maybe I'm thinking of some different kind of cutting board lol.

Edited September 21, 2022 by marbel