Shooting at a Texas elementary school

[Heartstrings]

2 minutes ago, Idalou said:

Do you honestly think there will be any outside investigation?? Dream on

The Texas Rangers are looking into it.   It’s something but not exactly an independent organization.  

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

FBI is investigating. Ok, need to get off this thread. People are angry. I get that. Can't handle this or the news. Time for an internet break. 

So, I’m REALLY going to push people, if they can, to engage with the issues REGARDLESS of the anger. Anger is justified. It’s rational. It’s in response to feelings of impotence and fear. Discomfort AND anger are perfectly appropriate responses to issues like this. Denial is not. It’s protective individually but it’s neither helpful nor productive writ large. The vast majority of Americans have existed in a state of denial for at least three decades. That can’t continue.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[mommyoffive]

13 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I'm seeing a report on twitter that the husband of one of the teachers who was killed, Joe Garcia, has died of a fatal heart attack.  The couple had four children.  

Oh gosh I hope not.  Praying for that family.  My heart is just so heavy.  I am reading about all the victims.  I feel like listening to the stories their families are wanting to tell about I should listen.  I should hear their voice.   But gosh is it sad.  I just saw the video of a dad who responded to the scene ( think he was an emt) and was helping a little girl that was covered head to toe and blood and crying that her best friend was just killed.  He asked her the name of her friend and it was his daughter.  There are just no words for their heartbreak.   

[Terabith]

I am in Virginia, which has more regulations than Texas, but not that much more.  At various points, I have seen people open carrying long guns in the grocery store.  I once saw a woman who was pushing a shopping cart with a toddler in the child seat of the shopping cart, a gun in her visible holster, and a long gun just propped up laying there in the shopping cart, where the about 3 year old could easily have grabbed it.  You have to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, but as long as it's completely visible, anyone at all, with zero training or paperwork beyond buying a gun (I think requirement is age 18 for long gun, 21 for hand guns, no felonies or involuntary psychiatric hospitalization), can carry it out in the open.  

[freesia]

35 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re [non]-conversation about gun safety legislation being caught up with wider "distrust of government"

I think I understand what you're getting at; and if so I agree that our [non]-conversation about gun fatalities (through violence, accident and suicide -- safe storage has substantially broader implications than "just" mass shootings) reflects a broader polarization about the proper role of government in society.

I actually don't see it as trust / mistrust of government. It's often framed that way, but many of the precise same legislators who proclaim adherence to "small government" on gun policy and environmental regulations, and "states' rights" on insurance and health matters, are simultaneously confident that state governments can and should micromanage school reading lists and teachers' interactions with students, and women's contraception choices, and private companies' decisions on content Terms; and that federal policy can and should override the legislation of states like mine that impose environmental or safety or financial disclosure requirements that they deem inadvisable.

It's not really "distrust of government" as an across-the-board principle, more "I like and trust government when it's using its power to do what I want; otherwise meh."  Which is OTOH understandable; I feel that way myself, LOL.

But I don't think it makes any sense to take at face value legislators who on Monday pass sweeping content bans on what picture book titles teachers can teach in elementary schools, and on Wednesday which contraception options women will be allowed to use; and then on Friday say we can't trust government to establish sensible gun policy.

[I understand that people do use that frame to resist even starting the non-conversation. I guess what I'm trying to say is, we have to get better at working through that rhetoric as rhetoric. It's a cloak over the issue, which affects our ability to get to the issue, but it isn't, itself, the issue.]

 

And it comes back around: lobbying power and Follow the Money *absolutely* is part of the reason for the polarization and labeling around What is the Proper Role of Government in Moving Toward a More Perfect Union. Lobbying power and Follow the Money *absolutely* is part of the reason gun policy here is viewed in binary all-or-nothing Good v Evil terms. 

I agree with you on the leaders framing it that way fit the reasons you say, but, on the ground level, the people electing them DO believe this. I honestly think that if the leaders changed the narrative, people would vote them out. I wish I knew how to change this belief. 

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, freesia said:

I agree with you on the leaders framing it that way fit the reasons you say, but, on the ground level, the people electing them DO believe this. I honestly think that if the leaders changed the narrative, people would vote them out. I wish I knew how to change this belief. 

It’s a PUBLIC HEALTH/LIFE issue and needs to be discussed as such…in church, at the school board, in friendly conversation, etc. Not talking about difficult issues like this doesn’t help. It actively hurts.

[Stacia]

Already mentioned. Here's a twitter link.

 

 

https://twitter.com/MattSeedorff/status/1529881167071268865?s=20&t=mik891hXR0k4IcGSGhmSpw

 

[ktgrok]

46 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

There are actual videos of how the police interacted with the parents while the shooting was happening.

it is possible that other police officers were helping evacuate, while some were keeping a perimeter. I don't know that they were, but it seems totally reasonable to expect that some would be evacuating and others would be keeping control of the crowd, to prevent more people going in and being shot, potentially BY the police who were clearing classrooms. 

[Katy]

29 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

In Arkansas where I am the background check can take UP TO 3 days.  Usually it’s instant, especially if you are clean.  The delay is dependent on the FBI.  They can take UP TO 3 days. Super fun fact-if they don’t get back in 3 days the purchase goes through anyway.  So you can buy the gun w/no background check if the FBI takes too long.  And they can’t take it back after that if you fail. Granted that’s rare, but it can and does happen.   Its fun living in the South.
 

Concealed carry in AR is $50 plus a night or two class.  My mother got one, she doesn’t know how to load her gun.   
 

But yes, where I am it took us 30 minutes last time we bought a gun.  Not much more hassle than buying a bottle of wine honestly.  
 

 

The three days is the guideline all over the country. 

[lewelma]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

I didn’t realize how many countries have a process like this. I thought NZ just banned guns. I didn’t realize they still have them with this process. 
 

 

NZ has a LOT of guns.  Even after the Christchurch Mosque Shooting, we are number 9 in the world for the most households owning guns.  The guns we banned were the ones that kill people. 

[mommyoffive]

51 minutes ago, Stacia said:

Already mentioned. Here's a twitter link.

 

 

https://twitter.com/MattSeedorff/status/1529881167071268865?s=20&t=mik891hXR0k4IcGSGhmSpw

 

The husband of a teacher killed in the Texas school shooting died two days later of a medical emergency, relative says (msn.com)

[Sneezyone]

45 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

it is possible that other police officers were helping evacuate, while some were keeping a perimeter. I don't know that they were, but it seems totally reasonable to expect that some would be evacuating and others would be keeping control of the crowd, to prevent more people going in and being shot, potentially BY the police who were clearing classrooms. 

TBH- I’d rather die protecting my kids/niece than be pushed aside by an armed officer. We know regular passengers brought down that flight in PA. They knew it was suicide and did it anyway to protect others. We CAN do better. Selflessness isn’t dead.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Idalou]

Oh no, there is something putrid being covered up. Initial reports said the resource officer was there and interacted. This morning a lieutenant said on CNN that he SPOKE to the resource officer about their exchange. After the press meeting just now, they claim there was no resource officer there at all.

And they claim just now to still not know if the door was locked or unlocked. Yet the cancun visiting senator says it was a door problem. Not a gun problem, y'all.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Idalou

[WildflowerMom]

Did some of the kids in that one room survive?

[ktgrok]

16 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

TBH- I’d rather die protecting my kids/niece than be pushed aside by an armed officer. We know regular passengers brought down that flight in PA. They knew it was suicide and did it anyway to protect others. We CAN do better. Selflessness isn’t dead.

me too. But I also can understand not wanting the chaos of a crush of people rushing into a standoff/hostage situation, and that making things more difficult. I'm not saying it is the right call, but I can see it being "normal protocol" to not have people just rushing in there, running through the halls, etc. 

[Idalou]

10 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

Did some of the kids in that one room survive?

I heard yesterday in tv that 2 were still in hospital but couldn't find any info last night so I think that was misinformation

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Idalou

[prairiewindmomma]

4 hours ago, mathnerd said:

They waited for border patrol agents to drive from the border which  is 80 miles away to enter the classroom using a key that they got from an admin. 

I thought the border agents, normally stationed in Del Rio, were in town to do a raid on a stash house. They overheard the chatter on the radio and showed up on their own volition.

And, yes, they didn't attempt to break down the door, they got the key from a teacher.

[Idalou]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/uvalde-residents-voice-frustration-over-shooting-response-11653588161?st=ity3a9xpose9xuf

So one parent ran in and grabbed her kids during this? Other parents broke windows to get some out. Then the police tried to arrest another mom and one parent claims to see them Taser another parent.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Idalou

[Idalou]

Just now, prairiewindmomma said:

I thought the border agents, normally stationed in Del Rio, were in town to do a raid on a stash house. They overheard the chatter on the radio and showed up on their own volition.

And, yes, they didn't attempt to break down the door, they got the key from a teacher.

Yet they keep saying he barricaded himself. He locked a door, that is not barricading, if all it took was a key.

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

me too. But I also can understand not wanting the chaos of a crush of people rushing into a standoff/hostage situation, and that making things more difficult. I'm not saying it is the right call, but I can see it being "normal protocol" to not have people just rushing in there, running through the halls, etc. 

Normal protocol went out the window the moment we decided civilians armed with military rifles was SOP. You think Ukrainians are waiting for permission to fight off thugs? No. Just no. If this is a war zone, and that’s how Texans want to live, let people defend themselves and their families accordingly. I’m not even saying that’s how things SHOULD be. I’m just recognizing that’s where we are WRT military munitions in civilian hands.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[1234]

Just now, Idalou said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/uvalde-residents-voice-frustration-over-shooting-response-11653588161?st=ity3a9xpose9xuf

So one parent ran in and grabbed her kids during this? Other parents broke wi dies to get some out. Then the police tried to arrest another mom and one parent claims to see them Taser another parent.

I was just coming to post this. It looks like she had time to drive 40 miles to the school, be put in handcuffs, talk her way out of the handcuffs, and then go get her kids herself. WTAF were the police doing?

[Terabith]

Just now, Joker2 said:

I was just coming to post this. It looks like she had time to drive 40 miles to the school, be put in handcuffs, talk her way out of the handcuffs, and then go get her kids herself. WTAF were the police doing?

Could someone post the content of the article?  I can't read it without a subscription.

[prairiewindmomma]

I hope the forensic analysis of the scene plus a lot of interviews happen and that all of that becomes openly reviewed. 

Honestly, nothing will change unless it's a federal law, and even then, our current Supreme Court lineup has a case this year that deals with second amendment issues that is likely to remove current protections. I'm super sick of a tiny minority controlling the vast majority of politics. End the filibuster, elect new people, add supreme court seats, whatever needs to get done. The current system is broken is neither delivering democracy or justice.

[mommyoffive]

15 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

Did some of the kids in that one room survive?

Texas survivor, 9, says gunman turned to victims and said 'it's time to die' (msn.com)

[ktgrok]

7 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Normal protocol went out the window the moment we decided civilians armed with military rifles was SOP. You think Ukrainians are waiting for permission to fight off thugs? No. Just no. If this is a war zone, and that’s how Texans want to live, let people defend themselves and their families accordingly. I’m not even saying that’s how things SHOULD be. I’m just recognizing that’s where we are WRT military munitions in civilian hands.

I want to clarify - I only feel keeping the parents out is normal and good IF the rest of the cops are in there breaking down doors and engaging the shooter and saving the kids. 

Which...it seems wasn't happening. 

I was, and continue to, hope that it was happening but because it was inside no one saw. But...it doesn't seem that way. 

 

[ktgrok]

Ugh, saw this on Reddit - someone that trains police officers for active shooter situations - verifies (and other LEOs did as well) that protocol is to engage the shooter immediately, and states that many officers were not okay with doing that. 

Honestly, if we are not going to limit guns in the hands of civilians, AND our law enforcement isn't able/willing to engage and protect, then let's just freaking admit that every public space is actually a warzone, and start having the military patrol shopping centers, schools, and movie theaters. 

 

[Sneezyone]

19 minutes ago, Idalou said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/uvalde-residents-voice-frustration-over-shooting-response-11653588161?st=ity3a9xpose9xuf

So one parent ran in and grabbed her kids during this? Other parents broke windows to get some out. Then the police tried to arrest another mom and one parent claims to see them Taser another parent.

Again, the FACTS aren unlikely to support the good guys with guns narrative. Thus the delay. May they all be sued into debtors prison. Amen.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[1234]

9 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Could someone post the content of the article?  I can't read it without a subscription.

 

I don’t know how to post the whole article but here’s one Twitter thread about it with parts of the article. There are others which show different parts.

[ktgrok]

Average length of an active shooter situation is 12 minutes. This was 47. 

And the training program developed to handle school shootings was developed IN Texas, less than 3 hours away! I would say, "Oh, the department in a small town didn't have the funds for the training" but all that gear I saw sure cost money. So either they were trained and didn't follow it, or not trained at all but given fun toys. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

Edited May 26, 2022 by ktgrok

[Sneezyone]

11 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Ugh, saw this on Reddit - someone that trains police officers for active shooter situations - verifies (and other LEOs did as well) that protocol is to engage the shooter immediately, and states that many officers were not okay with doing that. 

Honestly, if we are not going to limit guns in the hands of civilians, AND our law enforcement isn't able/willing to engage and protect, then let's just freaking admit that every public space is actually a warzone, and start having the military patrol shopping centers, schools, and movie theaters. 

 

LEGISLATORS, to be clear, those of a particular party with toxic masculinity as their default standard for ‘real’ men, see rushing into fires (not the legislators of course) as normal and natural. Espousing those views is an especially convenient way to enrich their campaign coffers. That is NOT reality. LEOs are no more interested in dying today than you or I and their death benefits are locality/state dependent unlike the military. We ARE NOT at war and we need to stop poo-pooing the crazies among us who want to make that true. Meanwhile, a parent with everything to lose, arrived, was handcuffed, and STILL RESCUED HER BABIES.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Katy]

This is really disgusting on so many levels. Not to mention that now DH & I are in a big fight about gun control. Sigh. I am so angry and scared. I don’t want to live in America anymore. 

I’m really disgusted by those cops. 
 

ETA: I know this is normal behavior for cops. The way my dad became police chief was too many situations where no one would go in but him & the other (less senior) guy with wartime military experience. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Katy

[Katy]

DH is quoting an article that said the same school district had two kids arrested in the past few years that were planning a Columbine style attack. So there’s no excuse for bad school security. They were well aware of the threat. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Katy
Same not sane

[lauraw4321]

I'm so confused now! They are saying that there wasn't any "encounter" outside the school?  First it sounded like it was shots fired by the guard. Then they made it sound like a confrontation. Now they are saying there was no interaction at all???  I know that there are obviously a lot of moving parts, but how does this much bad information get circulated widely? WTH actually happened???

[Idalou]

38 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Texas survivor, 9, says gunman turned to victims and said 'it's time to die' (msn.com)

So the two teachers put themselves in front of the kids and died trying to save them. Yet 80 police officers spent 40 minutes deciding what to do. Insane.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Idalou

[Idalou]

20 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I'm so confused now! They are saying that there wasn't any "encounter" outside the school?  First it sounded like it was shots fired by the guard. Then they made it sound like a confrontation. Now they are saying there was no interaction at all???  I know that there are obviously a lot of moving parts, but how does this much bad information get circulated widely? WTH actually happened???

So apparently a lieutenant lied or misspoke when yesterday he said he spoke to the resource officer about the encounter? Because its a big jump to go from 'engagement with resource officer' to no resource officer at all on campus. How embarrassing for every single person from the governor on down to talk for over a day about a resource officer that was not there.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Idalou

[QueenCat]

I think that until a full investigation is completed, there are a lot of unknowns and a lot of unsubstantiated accounts. "A parent saw, a parent said, a bystander said..." all has to be investigated to see what really happened. Many will be substantiated but until then, it's hard to make many of the assumptions I'm seeing on social media and here. 

 

This is NOT directed to anyone in particular but rather an observation over the past couple of days.

[prairiewindmomma]

35 minutes ago, ktgrok said:let's just freaking admit that every public space is actually a warzone, and start having the military patrol shopping centers, schools, and movie theaters. 

 

I don’t think the answer is more guns. 
 

When we lived in Texas, nearly everyone in my neighborhood was armed. They got guns because the police were slow to respond and there was an uptick of armed invasions happening in the neighborhood. Most of them had never fired their guns. Women carried handguns in their purses without trigger locks. Guns were left in glove boxes, hidden under pool towels, worn into grocery stores in holsters.  It was normal to hear of toddlers getting ahold of guns and accidentally shooting themselves or others.

The only times I really thought I was going to be shot were in Texas. Everyone has a “protect me and mine” “I will get what I need for me and mine” mentality. Fights escalated quickly when the guns got pulled out. Road rage incidents often ended in gunfire.
 

Making it culturally ok to shoot people, culturally ok to arm to the teeth, culturally ok to swagger about “home defense” is part of the sickness that feeds the gun loving mentality. 
 

 

[Faith-manor]

27 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Average length of an active shooter situation is 12 minutes. This was 47. 

And the training program developed to handle school shootings was developed IN Texas, less than 3 hours away! I would say, "Oh, the department in a small town didn't have the funds for the training" but all that gear I saw sure cost money. So either they were trained and didn't follow it, or not trained at all but given fun toys. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

Not trained, Rambo up for cosplay,  just cool dress up clothes and toys, and then "Oh f@ck this is really happening. What the hell am I supposed to do?"

You have NO idea how much my nephew, Michigan National Guard, is seething over this. But he also said it is typical.  They are armed for Iwo Jima, and trained for Pleasantville with police academy training being 3 months long and includes ZERO training for this, mostly just memorizing laws and procdures. They have been failed by the system as much as we civilians have. The only difference is, they willing signed up for the job and have the responsibility to get informed.

[prairiewindmomma]

I support yearly proficiency tests, fwiw. You can bear arms—you also have to be safe storing and firing them. 

[1234]

18 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I'm so confused now! They are saying that there wasn't any "encounter" outside the school?  First it sounded like it was shots fired by the guard. Then they made it sound like a confrontation. Now they are saying there was no interaction at all???  I know that there are obviously a lot of moving parts, but how does this much bad information get circulated widely? WTH actually happened???

I think it’s like Sneezy’s been saying all along. What happened is this incident completely destroyed the “good guy with a gun” trope and none of them know how to explain the actions of those “good guys” since it didn’t go the way they thought it would. 

[Heartstrings]

Uvalde had a full swat team, not just good ole boy deputies.  Why have a swat team if they won’t swat? 
 

https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/wxdwgn/uvalde-swat-team-bragged-about-training-at-schools-on-facebook

 

Some of the timelines have the shooter outside for several minutes after crashing his car.  Then Reuters says officers followed him into the school then backed off instead of pursuing him.    
 

 

Whst we are witnessing right now is a cover up being put together as it happens.   The cops didn’t respond appropriately but the Back the Blues can’t say that.  
 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Heartstrings

[WildflowerMom]

6 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Uvalde had a full swat team, not just good ole boy deputies.  Why have a swat team if they won’t swat? 
 

https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/wxdwgn/uvalde-swat-team-bragged-about-training-at-schools-on-facebook

 

Some of the timelines have the shooter outside for several minutes after crashing his car.  Then Reuters says officers followed him into the school then backed off instead of pursuing him.    
 

 

 

I've never seen a dept post photos of their SWAT team members' faces on Facebook.   

[KSera]

7 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Whst we are witnessing right now is a cover up being put together as it happens.   The cops didn’t respond appropriately but the Back the Blues can’t say that.  

It seems they may be finding themselves in a darned if they do, darned if they don't situation. Either they held back and didn't do anything initially, which is bad for obvious reasons, or they responded immediately and it still didn't do anything to prevent this, which is a problem for the "all we need is more people with guns narrative". 

[Heartstrings]

6 minutes ago, KSera said:

It seems they may be finding themselves in a darned if they do, darned if they don't situation. Either they held back and didn't do anything initially, which is bad for obvious reasons, or they responded immediately and it still didn't do anything to prevent this, which is a problem for the "all we need is more people with guns narrative". 

I had some sympathy with the idea of beat cops not going in to do anything.  But a SWAT team in full gear doing crowd control on parents is BS plain and simple.  If they didn’t want to go in fine, resign and hand off your gear to a parent.  
 

We ask more of teachers than SWAT teams.   

Edited May 26, 2022 by Heartstrings

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, Lovinglife123 said:

I just think at this point.. after so many of these, as part of being a teacher they should be trained and armed… just part of their everyday job.  They go through so much school and training already, background checks etc.  I wish my DH could carry a gun to school.  Instead 18 year olds can carry machine guns into the schools, but teachers can’t protect their students?  I’m all for getting rid of military weapons from civilians too, but why not have every teacher a “security officer” too.

Because most teachers don't want to do that. That's not what they signed up for, and it's far more likely there would end up more shootings caused by the teachers' guns than by someone entering school grounds from the outside with a gun. We've already seen time and again that even armed guards on campuses more often than not are unable to stop shooters. Are the teachers supposed to be outfitted with AR-15s also? And how is that going to go down in a split second decision in a room full of kids? Arming teachers is no kind of solution for anyone except the gun manufacturers, who are the ones who stand to gain financially from that.

[Sneezyone]

26 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Uvalde had a full swat team, not just good ole boy deputies.  Why have a swat team if they won’t swat? 
 

https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/wxdwgn/uvalde-swat-team-bragged-about-training-at-schools-on-facebook

 

Some of the timelines have the shooter outside for several minutes after crashing his car.  Then Reuters says officers followed him into the school then backed off instead of pursuing him.    
 

 

Whst we are witnessing right now is a cover up being put together as it happens.   The cops didn’t respond appropriately but the Back the Blues can’t say that.  
 

 

 

Because machismo is FICTION. It's not real. REAL soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and guardians are AFRAID of/in war.  Real soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines find strength and courage in each other, not a title or gun. Real soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, and guardians train, hard to use the equipment they're given AND LEAVE IT AT WORK. Real soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and guardians have numerous national benefits associated with bravery that will hold their families in good stead. Nothing about civilian LEO service is comparable.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, Lovinglife123 said:

I just think at this point.. after so many of these, as part of being a teacher they should be trained and armed… just part of their everyday job.  They go through so much school and training already, background checks etc.  I wish my DH could carry a gun to school.  Instead 18 year olds can carry machine guns into the schools, but teachers can’t protect their students?  I’m all for getting rid of military weapons from civilians too, but why not have every teacher a “security officer” too.

So, you're cool with a mass teacher exodus. We don't trust teachers to select appropriate books. You want them armed? Where's my hysterical laughing/crying emoji. This is INSANE. GET THE GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF KIDS!

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Elona]

2 minutes ago, Lovinglife123 said:

I just think as part of being a teacher they should be trained and armed… just part of their everyday job.  They go through so much school and training already, background checks etc.  I wish my DH could carry a gun to school.  Instead 18 year olds can carry machine guns into the schools, but teachers can’t protect their students?  I’m all for getting rid of military weapons from civilians too, but why not have every teacher a “security officer” too.

In my opinion this is incredibly dangerous. In order for the weapon to be useful, it would need to be loaded and quickly accessible. This presumably means it would be holstered. So what happens when an angry student or group of students overpowers that teacher and takes their weapon? Aggression in classrooms is out of control as it is.

What if that teacher, who never signed up to be in a law enforcement position of this nature, makes the wrong call and uses deadly force when it shouldn't be?

This is not a workable solution, for a lot of reasons. We need to look at countries who don't have this problem and implement as many of their strategies as we can. They are not arming teachers.

[Faith-manor]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Because machismo is FICTION. It's not real. REAL soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and guardians are AFRAID of/in war.  Real soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines find strength and courage in each other, not a title or gun. Real soldier, sailors, airmen, marines, and guardians train, hard to use the equipment they're given AND LEAVE IT AT WORK. Real soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and guardians have numerous national benefits associated with bravery that will hold their families in good stead. Nothing about civilian LEO service is comparable.

Exactly this!

Even in a war zone, my nephew checked his arms at the armory when he returned to base. There was none of this messed up, Rambo, Tom Cruise, Bruce Willis crap. They know better.

If the answer is "every teacher has an AR 15" then I want mandatory attendance laws revoked. No government should be able to require a kindergartener to attend military school. The end. Better dumb and alive, then educated and dead. 

[prairiewindmomma]

NZ style background checks

yearly proficiency and mental health review checks

assault rifle bans

magazine limitations