Remember my PayPal issue and selling curriculum? - GOOD UPDATE IN THREAD

[Night Elf]

Paypal decided in the buyer's favor so I had to refund the money. If she gets the box later, I hope she does the right thing and pays me but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Oh no! I just carefully read the email from PayPal and not only are they refunding her the full $70, they are charging me $15 for the dispute!! So I'm out $85 and two sets of Saxon Math textbooks. This sucks!

Edited March 13, 2022 by Night Elf

[Catwoman]

Wait — I thought you had until the 17th to respond!

[Night Elf]

10 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Wait — I thought you had until the 17th to respond!

Technically I responded already because I contacted them to give them the tracking number, so I guess that cancelled the the 17th deadline. I shouldn't have responded until then. I didn't know that. This is all new to me.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Night Elf

[Catwoman]

31 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

Technically I responded already because I contacted them to give them the tracking number, so I guess that cancelled the the 17th deadline. I shouldn't have responded until then. I didn't know that. This is all new to me.

Ugh! I was a little worried when you said you'd told the woman you would give her a refund if the package hadn't arrived by today. I don't think your response with the tracking number was the problem at all -- I think it was because you gave the woman a specific day that you would refund her money. 

I'm so sorry that happened to you! 😞 

Is it wrong that I'm now hoping that the package is actually lost in the mail and the woman never gets it? 

[Night Elf]

7 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Ugh! I was a little worried when you said you'd told the woman you would give her a refund if the package hadn't arrived by today. I don't think your response with the tracking number was the problem at all -- I think it was because you gave the woman a specific day that you would refund her money. 

I'm so sorry that happened to you! 😞 

Is it wrong that I'm now hoping that the package is actually lost in the mail and the woman never gets it? 

but paypal did the investigating based on the tracking number. What I told the woman shouldn't have come into play. If it did, they should have stated that in the email. My second problem is the email also said the amount was removed from my paypal account. However, I do not see a transaction in my activity page of that withdrawal and it's not showing in my bank account as being sent back to paypal, plus the additional $15 isn't showing anywhere. The instructions did not tell me to do anything specific. I guess I'll call monday and ask them what am I supposed to do now. Somehow the woman  got her $70 but I don't know where they got it from to give it to her!

My DH said that I should watch the tracking and as soon as it says it's been delivered, to open a new dispute in paypal and give them that information that the package was showing delivered and I want the refund reversed.

[itsheresomewhere]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

Wait — I thought you had until the 17th to respond!

It doesn’t matter with PayPal.  And the longer a seller takes to respond, the faster they seem to side with the buyer.  They rarely side with the seller. That is my personal experience.  

[Night Elf]

9 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

It doesn’t matter with PayPal.  And the longer a seller takes to respond, the faster they seem to side with the buyer.  They rarely side with the seller. That is my personal experience.  

Okay, so what do people do if they know for a fact that the item that was lost actually did show up? DH says I need to open a dispute to have the refund reversed because the tracking will say delivered. The problem is this box was never lost. It's media mail which takes more than 5 business days. She opened the dispute 5 business days after I mailed it. 

[itsheresomewhere]

9 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

Okay, so what do people do if they know for a fact that the item that was lost actually did show up? DH says I need to open a dispute to have the refund reversed because the tracking will say delivered. The problem is this box was never lost. It's media mail which takes more than 5 business days. She opened the dispute 5 business days after I mailed it. 

Based on my experience and others- once they make a decision they don’t reverse it.  Even with it saying delivered, they can still claim it wasn’t delivered to them. 

[Night Elf]

9 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Based on my experience and others- once they make a decision they don’t reverse it.  Even with it saying delivered, they can still claim it wasn’t delivered to them. 

Great. Then all I have left is to hope she'll pay me when she gets the box. If she doesn't, I'll just have to make sure I never sell to her again. I wish I could warn others but there is no chit-chat on the board and no where to post a question or comment. It's simply buy/sell.

[AnneGG]

Can you re route the package back to you through USPS? 
 

PayPal is not seller friendly. Neither is eBay. Your best bet for any selling is Poshmark, but homeschool stuff can move slow. Mercari homeschool moves fast. Don’t ship media mail because it’s not protected and they will swipe money from your Mercari account if there is an issue with USPS. 

I’ve been burned before too and it stinks, especially when your really counting on that money for groceries or whatever. 

[Night Elf]

Okay, the link finally came through. I had a negative balance that I had to pay off. Thanks for your comments. We'll see if anything happens when she receives the box. 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

It doesn’t matter with PayPal.  And the longer a seller takes to respond, the faster they seem to side with the buyer.  They rarely side with the seller. That is my personal experience.  

I’ve had the literal opposite experience. I bought something as a gift and it had clearly been broken and welded to repair it and no longer worked. I complained and the seller claimed I had broken and attempted to repair it so they just closed the case. It was $50 plus shipping. There was literally no opportunity to continue the discussion. 

[Katy]

This has nothing to do with it being delivered or not, she had it in writing that you would refund so you were obligated to do so. 

[CTVKath]

I don't have any experience but I would definitely open a request to reverse refund once the tracking shows the package delivered. Even if PayPal does nothing for you, it could show a history to PayPal of this buyer requesting refunds before receipt of goods. I'm sorry this happened. This is why I stick to selling at consignment sales even though the commission is bigger.

[Ceilingfan]

Well you're not out $85 and the books, you're just out $15 and the books, maybe look at it that way? Shipping media mail is tricky because it does take longer to arrive than most people are used to (even if they say beforehand they don't mind). I would just upcharge $5 (or eat $5 of shipping) and ship Priority flat rate padded in the future.

[happi duck]

I hate that this works in favor of someone who is either a scammer or unreasonably impatient.

Whether they're a "joke" or not I've seen online "hacks" that are stealing.  Unfortunately, ime, homeschoolers are willing to value saving money over being truthful.  

[Night Elf]

3 hours ago, Ceilingfan said:

Well you're not out $85 and the books, you're just out $15 and the books, maybe look at it that way? Shipping media mail is tricky because it does take longer to arrive than most people are used to (even if they say beforehand they don't mind). I would just upcharge $5 (or eat $5 of shipping) and ship Priority flat rate padded in the future.

Almost, by losing the books, I lost the money I put into them originally when I bought them. I paid close to what I charged, but I bought mine all in pieces and resold the books as sets. I figured they'd sell better. 

I'm letting it go. I just can't be bothered with it. The box was delivered at 12:53 pm today. I looked at paypal, following their instructions to appeal the case, but there is no 'appeal' button to click. So I'm going to chalk this up as a stupid move on my part and move on. I'm not using USPS anymore though. 

In order to sell on ebay, I can list one item per month and it has to be under $10. I can't even have a reserve price above $10.00. But it added suggested shipping of $5.71. I figure it will probably  cost at least $10 to mail it UPS. UPS does give me the rates for USPS Priority and UPS is cheaper every time. So I'll probably make about $5 on that set, but hey, that's $5 I can put towards my next purchase. I'll consider it a coupon. 🙂

[regentrude]

Nm.

Edited March 12, 2022 by regentrude

[Catwoman]

25 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

Almost, by losing the books, I lost the money I put into them originally when I bought them. I paid close to what I charged, but I bought mine all in pieces and resold the books as sets. I figured they'd sell better. 

I'm letting it go. I just can't be bothered with it. The box was delivered at 12:53 pm today. I looked at paypal, following their instructions to appeal the case, but there is no 'appeal' button to click. So I'm going to chalk this up as a stupid move on my part and move on. I'm not using USPS anymore though. 

In order to sell on ebay, I can list one item per month and it has to be under $10. I can't even have a reserve price above $10.00. But it added suggested shipping of $5.71. I figure it will probably  cost at least $10 to mail it UPS. UPS does give me the rates for USPS Priority and UPS is cheaper every time. So I'll probably make about $5 on that set, but hey, that's $5 I can put towards my next purchase. I'll consider it a coupon. 🙂

Call PayPal, and also send the buyer a new invoice via PayPal. 

[Night Elf]

I appealed the case so now all I can do is wait. I gave them a picture of my receipt with the tracking number and also put the tracking number in my appeal. I wasn't going to bother because I have no confidence any of them will do the right thing. DH said it's worth the risk of being charged another $15 if I lose this appeal. We'll see what happens. I'm not talking to her anymore. This past week I sent her a few emails and she never responded.

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

I appealed the case so now all I can do is wait. I gave them a picture of my receipt with the tracking number and also put the tracking number in my appeal. I wasn't going to bother because I have no confidence any of them will do the right thing. DH said it's worth the risk of being charged another $15 if I lose this appeal. We'll see what happens. I'm not talking to her anymore. This past week I sent her a few emails and she never responded.

Good luck, Beth!  Did you note that the package was delivered today?

Honestly, if I were you, I would also call them and explain the situation and stress the fact that you were originally given until the 17th to even respond to the woman’s claim. You might as well do everything possible to help your case.

[kbutton]

14 hours ago, Night Elf said:

Great. Then all I have left is to hope she'll pay me when she gets the box. If she doesn't, I'll just have to make sure I never sell to her again. I wish I could warn others but there is no chit-chat on the board and no where to post a question or comment. It's simply buy/sell.

Can you report to the group admin? I think most groups will block someone that is trouble. 

5 hours ago, CTVKath said:

I don't have any experience but I would definitely open a request to reverse refund once the tracking shows the package delivered. Even if PayPal does nothing for you, it could show a history to PayPal of this buyer requesting refunds before receipt of goods. 

I think this makes sense.

[Kassia]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

I would also call them and explain the situation and stress the fact that you were originally given until the 17th to even respond to the woman’s claim. You might as well do everything possible to help your case.

I agree.  The buyer received her package within the correct time frame - there's no reason for you to not receive payment (and certainly no reason for you to be penalized with the dispute charge).  I'm sorry about the hassle.

[daijobu]

I only accept payment for my tutoring services using Zelle.   I don't accept Venmo or Paypal, not because of the OP's issue, though it is alarming, but because they take a part of the transaction when it's in exchange for goods and services.  

[Night Elf]

3 minutes ago, daijobu said:

I only accept payment for my tutoring services using Zelle.   I don't accept Venmo or Paypal, not because of the OP's issue, though it is alarming, but because they take a part of the transaction when it's in exchange for goods and services.  

The problem is that the buy/sell/exchange homeschool groups I'm participate in on facebook make it part of their policy to insist that people use paypal good/services as no one payment method protects the buyer. They repost that warning every month I think. And with ebay, it seems paypal is also the default for people selling curriculum. I can't seem to get around it.

[Night Elf]

UPDATE: The package was delivered to that lady today and I immediately contacted PayPal about it. I filled out the appeal form but said I wanted to know what their fees are before I do so. They already have $15 of my money for a dispute I didn't even open. 

But the good news? The buyer contacted me that she received the box and she wanted to know how to get the payment back to me because she wanted to be honest. Now who knows, she might even be on this board and read this thread. Not sure. But I was so very grateful that her email was so polite. I responded with what I had done today and that I figured PayPal would contact her. But it sounds like if they won't let me do an appeal, I can just invoice her and she can pay me. Or I might ask if she uses Venmo or Zelle as I do both of those as well. Then we can avoid PayPal fees again.

So I'm feeling hopeful. I'm no longer making what I had expected since I lost the original PayPal fee and the $15 dispute fee. My profit is down to 52.00 for two complete Saxon Math sets. That disappoints me but it's better than not getting anything at all. I hate selling cheap things. I really don't understand people can sell books for $2.50 each as media mail isn't as cheap as it was when I was buying/selling curriculum when my kids were little.

I have a listing on ebay that has two bids so far. I'm going to lose money on the deal, but again I'll get something. I don't have a lot to sell and some of it I'm going to donate to my local homeschool store. I'm also going to go to them before I buy anything else online. 

[mommyoffive]

4 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

UPDATE: The package was delivered to that lady today and I immediately contacted PayPal about it. I filled out the appeal form but said I wanted to know what their fees are before I do so. They already have $15 of my money for a dispute I didn't even open. 

But the good news? The buyer contacted me that she received the box and she wanted to know how to get the payment back to me because she wanted to be honest. Now who knows, she might even be on this board and read this thread. Not sure. But I was so very grateful that her email was so polite. I responded with what I had done today and that I figured PayPal would contact her. But it sounds like if they won't let me do an appeal, I can just invoice her and she can pay me. Or I might ask if she uses Venmo or Zelle as I do both of those as well. Then we can avoid PayPal fees again.

So I'm feeling hopeful. I'm no longer making what I had expected since I lost the original PayPal fee and the $15 dispute fee. My profit is down to 52.00 for two complete Saxon Math sets. That disappoints me but it's better than not getting anything at all. I hate selling cheap things. I really don't understand people can sell books for $2.50 each as media mail isn't as cheap as it was when I was buying/selling curriculum when my kids were little.

I have a listing on ebay that has two bids so far. I'm going to lose money on the deal, but again I'll get something. I don't have a lot to sell and some of it I'm going to donate to my local homeschool store. I'm also going to go to them before I buy anything else online. 

Good update.  I hope everything works out for your payment.

[daijobu]

13 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

The problem is that the buy/sell/exchange homeschool groups I'm participate in on facebook make it part of their policy to insist that people use paypal good/services as no one payment method protects the buyer. They repost that warning every month I think. And with ebay, it seems paypal is also the default for people selling curriculum. I can't seem to get around it.

I was wondering if that was an issue.  

[daijobu]

6 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

But the good news? The buyer contacted me that she received the box and she wanted to know how to get the payment back to me because she wanted to be honest. Now who knows, she might even be on this board and read this thread. Not sure. But I was so very grateful that her email was so polite.

Hooray for nice honest people!  And I'm not the buyer.  

...or am I?  (jk, I'm not the buyer)

[Kassia]

I'm so glad she's making this better and you'll get most of the money back.  What an ordeal.  😞 

[EKS]

That idiot woman should pay the dispute fee.  I mean what rational person doesn't wait at least two weeks for media mail?

[itsheresomewhere]

45 minutes ago, EKS said:

That idiot woman should pay the dispute fee.  I mean what rational person doesn't wait at least two weeks for media mail?

I wonder if she has been burned recently by a seller.   Perhaps one who kept telling her to wait as it showed a tracking number but never showed and she didn’t get it reported in time. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by itsheresomewhere

[Night Elf]

58 minutes ago, EKS said:

That idiot woman should pay the dispute fee.  I mean what rational person doesn't wait at least two weeks for media mail?

According to the paypal site, if a seller appeals and wins, the money and dispute fee are returned to him/her. So I might be able to get my money back.

[Catwoman]

Thanks for the update, Beth -- I'm glad to hear that your buyer was honest, and that things seem to be working out for you! YAY!

[gardenmom5]

16 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I wonder if she has been burned recently by a seller.   Perhaps one who kept telling her to wait as it showed a tracking number but never showed and she didn’t get it reported in time. 

Having recently bought something where USPS took their own sweet time..  I contacted the seller directly to ask how long she had to wait before filing an insurance claim.   She assured me to just be patient.   It eventually showed up.  (If I hadn't wanted the item as much I would have been more patient. )

The buyer should have waited at least until the last delivery date for media mail.  Especially when the tracking number showed USPS had it.

I don't have good feelings towards PayPal.  Last year I was able to prove I was given a false tracking number, and they still wouldn't refund my money because it showed delivered. (To a different address shipped from Amazon. )    My credit card company refunded me the same day I filed a claim with them.

 

[MerryAtHope]

22 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

Having recently bought something where USPS took their own sweet time..  I contacted the seller directly to ask how long she had to wait before filing an insurance claim.   She assured me to just be patient.   It eventually showed up.  (If I hadn't wanted the item as much I would have been more patient. )

The buyer should have waited at least until the last delivery date for media mail.  Especially when the tracking number showed USPS had it.

I don't have good feelings towards PayPal.  Last year I was able to prove I was given a false tracking number, and they still wouldn't refund my money because it showed delivered. (To a different address shipped from Amazon. )    My credit card company refunded me the same day I filed a claim with them.

 

We had the exact same thing happen. Spent so much time on the phone with PayPal, and they said to contact the Post Office and turn in proof of where the package was actually delivered, we did all that and still nothing.

[gardenmom5]

4 minutes ago, MerryAtHope said:

We had the exact same thing happen. Spent so much time on the phone with PayPal, and they said to contact the Post Office and turn in proof of where the package was actually delivered, we did all that and still nothing.

That's why I just went to my credit card company.  Was refunded that day.  Or maybe the next day when it hit my cc account. 

And why I'd rather use a cc than cash.  Especially with PayPal.   2ds came across this with clients. So hardly unprecedented.   I think they will go out of their way to avoid giving refunds. 

[Night Elf]

PayPal found in my favor for the appeal and refunded the $70. It's my understanding from reading the FAQs that I'm supposed to be refunded the dispute fee as well but the email didn't say anything about that. I may have to call. 

[Catwoman]

Thanks for the update! I’m very happy for you!

[mommyoffive]

19 minutes ago, Night Elf said:

PayPal found in my favor for the appeal and refunded the $70. It's my understanding from reading the FAQs that I'm supposed to be refunded the dispute fee as well but the email didn't say anything about that. I may have to call. 

That is great!  I hope they refund the other part too.  They should have already.

[Kassia]

That's fantastic!  I'm so happy for you even though I feel bad about all the stress leading up to this.