Omicron anecdata?

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Yes, for sure. I am stocking up even though they do expire.

Yes. Just remember not to go by the dates on the box. Those keep being extended as time goes by, so you need to look up what the current shelf life is certified to. I have yet to throw out any of the tests we've gotten since they first became available, because as far as I've seen, none have yet come to a hard expiration date.

eta: Binax is up to a 22 month shelf life at this point, for example. The keep extending every 3-6 months as they retest and see if they are still working.

Edited February 25, 2023 by KSera

[mommyoffive]

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

Yes. Just remember not to go by the dates on the box. Those keep being extended as time goes by, so you need to look up what the current shelf life is certified to. I have yet to throw out any of the tests we've gotten since they first became available, because as far as I've seen, none have yet come to a hard expiration date.

Wow, from the very beginning? I saw some got extended, but I didn't know that long.  

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Wow, from the very beginning? I saw some got extended, but I didn't know that long.  

Yeah, the initial dates on them were only for like 3 months, because they hadn't been out long enough for them to know if they lasted any longer. They keep retesting and certifying them as time goes by, and updating the expiration dates on the manufacturer and FDA websites. So far I haven't seen any of them hit a point at which they are failing. I shudder to think how many perfectly good tests have been thrown away because the dates on the box indicated they were expired and this message hasn't gotten out well enough.

[mommyoffive]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Yeah, the initial dates on them were only for like 3 months, because they hadn't been out long enough for them to know if they lasted any longer. They keep retesting and certifying them as time goes by, and updating the expiration dates on the manufacturer and FDA websites. So far I haven't seen any of them hit a point at which they are failing. I shudder to think how many perfectly good tests have been thrown away because the dates on the box indicated they were expired and this message hasn't gotten out well enough.

I did not know that.  Thanks for the PSA.  

[KSera]

Here's the FDA page with the big chart for current expiration dates:

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-covid-19-and-medical-devices/home-otc-covid-19-diagnostic-tests#list

[kokotg]

It took me awhile to remember that the timing lined up, but I'm pretty sure that I can blame the Harry Potter traveling exhibition we went to the weekend before for our covid. We wore masks, but it was crowded, and 10 year old was not as careful as usual because we were so sure he was 3 weeks out from having covid and thus very unlikely to get it again. Sigh. Totally anecdotally of course, I've noticed a huge uptick in "well, we avoided it for 3 years, but..." types of posts over the past couple of weeks. Like on par with the height of omicron last winter and with last summer, which I attribute to lots of unmasked air travel. I'm sure part of it is that I'm noticing, since that happened to us (but it happened to us in three separate transmissions in less than a month, which is weird in itself), but also...if you're still holding out, maybe a good time to lay EXTRA LOW. The Harry Potter exhibition was fine, but it wasn't worth getting covid for. I'm grateful that I've never felt worse than moderate cold territory, but then it seemed to plateau at mild cold around day 4 and now it's still hanging out there on day 10, and I'm worried I'm going to have a stuffy head and that almost over a cold feeling for the rest of my life. /whine

[Spryte]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

This will be ending soon. Maybe, we have to wait and see.

What to expect when the COVID-19 public health emergency finally ends (msn.com)

What End of COVID-19 Public Health Emergency in U.S. Means | Time

COVID-19 tests

Currently, people with private insurance or Medicare can order up to eight rapid at-home tests a month and get reimbursed for their cost. After the PHE ends, insurers may continue to cover COVID-19 tests, including the over-the-counter at-home kind, but only if they are distributed by a narrower pool of in-network providers.

Medicare beneficiaries will also have to start paying for a portion of any tests. Medicaid will continue to pay for COVID-19 tests that are ordered by a doctor, but each state will decide whether to cover at-home tests.

We have never managed to make this work. Went in person to a Walgreens today and they said our insurance won’t cover tests. I was so disappointed. We even have the “platinum” plan.

Tests are pricey. DH is planning on shopping and bringing a stash home from the EU. Much less there!

[kbutton]

For the insurance-provided Covid tests, they aren't always free. Ours are not. I assume it's deductible-based.

3 hours ago, Acadie said:

What if, instead of denying that vaccine injury exists, we had done serious research on which populations are more likely to develop vaccine injury? What if, after identifying health or genetic conditions in more vulnerable populations, we researched how to reduce that risk to protect more vulnerable populations, and not just those with egg allergies, etc?

Do we know if risk from Covid vaccine is significantly different from other vaccines? I have gotten the impression that some of the serious reactions (Guillain‑Barre Syndrome, etc.) people have are things that they might've come down with from their next illness if it hadn't been a vaccine that particular time--as in, the vaccine can provoke it in people already susceptible to adverse outcomes from illness because the person is kind of a ticking time bomb for those kinds of reactions to illness or vaccine.

My husband said most people really have no idea how risky many common illnesses, especially viruses, are, and that we don't realize the burden of chronic illness that has always existed from repeated infection from "normal" illness. 

It seems like SciMoms had some kind of information about pathogens vs. beneficial microbes that also hammered home that no illness is ever beneficial and that risk of an adverse event from "the next" illness of any kind increases with repeated infections from any pathogen. 

[Acadie]

44 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Do we know if risk from Covid vaccine is significantly different from other vaccines? I have gotten the impression that some of the serious reactions (Guillain‑Barre Syndrome, etc.) people have are things that they might've come down with from their next illness if it hadn't been a vaccine that particular time--as in, the vaccine can provoke it in people already susceptible to adverse outcomes from illness because the person is kind of a ticking time bomb for those kinds of reactions to illness or vaccine.

My husband said most people really have no idea how risky many common illnesses, especially viruses, are, and that we don't realize the burden of chronic illness that has always existed from repeated infection from "normal" illness. 

It seems like SciMoms had some kind of information about pathogens vs. beneficial microbes that also hammered home that no illness is ever beneficial and that risk of an adverse event from "the next" illness of any kind increases with repeated infections from any pathogen. 

I don't know if risk from Covid vaccines is different than other vaccines--that's a great question. There's more data on Covid vaccines than anything else, I imagine.

With family history of environmental illness and ME/CFS, I wouldn't say that people who have reactions to vaccines or anything else are ticking time bombs, necessarily. Instead, I think environmental exposures and everyday health practices are more impactful in people with genetic predispositions, and there's a narrower range of circumstances that support their health.

So it may not be that the person is fated to a certain condition, but that the threshold of environmental and other factors that can trigger it is much lower for them. I have no doubt there's a canary-in-the-coal-mine phenomenon, too, where if we paid more attention to studying chronic illness we'd learn a lot about human health in general. 

Totally agree with your husband that most people underestimate the long term impact of many infectious diseases. I've been fascinated by recent research on past infections as contributing factors to Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. 

Also read recently the health and longevity of older people in Japan may be partly because masking during cold season reduces lifetime exposure to respiratory infections that contribute to what we call the diseases of aging. Blew my mind!

Edited February 26, 2023 by Acadie

[KSera]

22 minutes ago, Acadie said:

Also read recently the health and longevity of older people in Japan may be partly because masking during cold season reduces lifetime exposure to respiratory infections that contribute to what we call the diseases of aging. Blew my mind!

Oh wow, that's a fascinating hypothesis. Difficult to test/study, but definitely a feasible explanation based on what we're seeing about the cumulative damage viral infections can cause.

[TCB]

On 2/25/2023 at 10:24 AM, Ting Tang said:

I'm curious about athlete and young people's deaths.  I can search and find headlines, and I do feel I see more of it now.     (sincerely, a vaccinated person)    My husband is legitimately worried about his Pfizer vax.  He does believe Covid and the response was a scam.  Of course, hindsight is 20/20.  

The question of athlete and young people’s deaths is an interesting one. I think the first thing to answer is: are they actually occurring more frequently or are we experiencing the “Baader-Meinhoff phenomenon ” - we’re paying attention so they seem to be everywhere. I’m an ICU nurse and have looked after several younger than usual people having cardiac issues, and unexpected cardiac arrest, and so far all but one have not been vaccinated against Covid. I don’t really think it seems to be more frequently than usual but it’s hard to really remember if you haven’t been counting previously.

I do want to comment about the response to Covid being a scam. I think it might be easy to forget what things were like before we had such a high level of immunity from vaccines and prior infection. I’ve been working in ICUs for more than 30 years and I have never experienced anything like it. Particularly during the Delta wave we had so many people die that we didn’t bother putting the body bags in the cupboard but just kept them on the counter. I’m sorry if that is overly graphic but it is true. It was awful, and so sad, and I never want to go through anything like that again. In my area the number of deaths meant we really didn’t respond adequately to prevent them, never mind too much.

[mlktwins]

21 hours ago, Spryte said:

We have never managed to make this work. Went in person to a Walgreens today and they said our insurance won’t cover tests. I was so disappointed. We even have the “platinum” plan.

Tests are pricey. DH is planning on shopping and bringing a stash home from the EU. Much less there!

I was able to get reimbursed directly from my insurance. I filed a claim on-line and uploaded a copy of my receipt. 

[Spryte]

2 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

I was able to get reimbursed directly from my insurance. I filed a claim on-line and uploaded a copy of my receipt. 

Thanks. I will try that.

I did find a way to order *one* test kit per person each month, so that is a small help.

I will see about getting reimbursed for more, good idea!

[ScoutTN]

I met someone today who was unfamiliar with long covid until we discussed it because a mutual friend is suffering with various debilitating symptoms after having covid. 
 

How can people not know that long covid is a thing? This is not a covid-denier or a generally ignorant person. 

[kbutton]

20 hours ago, Acadie said:

With family history of environmental illness and ME/CFS, I wouldn't say that people who have reactions to vaccines or anything else are ticking time bombs, necessarily. Instead, I think environmental exposures and everyday health practices are more impactful in people with genetic predispositions, and there's a narrower range of circumstances that support their health.

So it may not be that the person is fated to a certain condition, but that the threshold of environmental and other factors that can trigger it is much lower for them.

Yes, I think it's more the idea that if a person got something like ME/CFS from a vaccine, they were at that threshold, and if it wasn't the vaccine, it would've been the next illness. So, the ticking time bomb part is really about being at the threshold, if that makes sense, not that a particularly person is doomed or that it's inevitable--it's more that once they are primed, they are at risk from a variety of everyday health insults.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a?mod=e2tw
 

WASHINGTON—The U.S. Energy Department has concluded that the Covid pandemic most likely arose from a laboratory leak, according to a classified intelligence report recently provided to the White House and key members of Congress.

The shift by the Energy Department, which previously was undecided on how the virus emerged, is noted in an update to a 2021 document by Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines’s office.

[kbutton]

33 minutes ago, TCB said:

I do want to comment about the response to Covid being a scam. I think it might be easy to forget what things were like before we had such a high level of immunity from vaccines and prior infection.

This. I was just thinking about this today.

We are visiting churches, and I find it a bit triggering because our old church is where we encountered the most propaganda, ignorance, or concern about FreeDumb (virtually or 1:1 with people because we just opted to never go back in person when people were being ridiculous). I kind of start reliving it all. That and we killed vacation plans in March of 2020 just days before Ohio locked down, and it's so close to those dates. We're also trying to plan our first real vacation since for a month from now.

Lots of..."special" memories. The first person we know who had Covid was a co-worker of DH's who had it before lockdown, IIRC. He had been working with her a bunch, so it has always felt like it could've been him. His job terminated (so he hasn't heard more), but as of 9 months after her infection, she was still unable to get out of bed for more than very short periods of time. She was young and had no risk factors--I hope she isn't still paying off medical school loans and unable to work. 

It was crazy having DH go back to work with the possibility of not having enough PPE, having a hard to fit face for an N95, etc. It was literally hoping that if something happened to his mask, another one would be in stock--they had almost none that fit him (and one other colleague needed the same kind). 

He worked in a bunny suit in an outdoor tent for a while too when they had no way to mask patients due to the PPE shortage, and they needed to isolate respiratory patients before letting people indoors.

Besides the severity of the disease, everything was a logistical nightmare.

Edited February 26, 2023 by kbutton

[KSera]

5 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-origin-china-lab-leak-807b7b0a?mod=e2tw
 

WASHINGTON—The U.S. Energy Department has concluded that the Covid pandemic most likely arose from a laboratory leak, according to a classified intelligence report recently provided to the White House and key members of Congress.

The shift by the Energy Department, which previously was undecided on how the virus emerged, is noted in an update to a 2021 document by Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines’s office.

I can't read the WSJ article as it's paywalled, but a web search shows the the headline makes it look like a stronger conclusion than it is. It sounds like they are still pretty uncertain, but are leaning this direction with "low confidence" and other agencies are not in agreement. For some reason, some people seem more invested in wanting it to be a lab leak and others not. Which is odd, since those who seem to "want" it to be a lab leak tend to be more likely to also downplay covid. Seems like it would be the opposite.

U.S. Energy Department assesses with 'low confidence' COVID may have originated from Chinese lab leak

 

[kokotg]

How great it would be to have boosters that are way more effective against infection? Fingers crossed (also, I'm glad to hear there are still people working on this; it seemed like everyone had just given up and we were resigned to getting covid constantly forever and just being glad it was less likely to kill us these days): https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/nasal-covid-vaccine-shows-promise-early-clinical-trial-rcna71841

[TCB]

@kbutton

Amen to the “special” memories. I remember being given 1 N95 mask and having to disinfect it in some kind of light box. And having to wear the same surgical mask for a week before being given a fresh one from the locked cupboard in the managers office.

We were fortunate because our unit is on the ground floor so relatives could come to the windows and see their loved ones. I remember one man writing a message to his wife on a small whiteboard, to hold up for her, before he was intubated. Sadly he didn’t make it. I remember patients begging to be intubated because they were so exhausted from trying to breathe day after day. I remember so many of them so clearly, I guess because it was such a shocking experience.

[Acadie]

45 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Yes, I think it's more the idea that if a person got something like ME/CFS from a vaccine, they were at that threshold, and if it wasn't the vaccine, it would've been the next illness. So, the ticking time bomb part is really about being at the threshold, if that makes sense, not that a particularly person is doomed or that it's inevitable--it's more that once they are primed, they are at risk from a variety of everyday health insults.

But we move up and down all the time, relative to our individual thresholds. Someone who has a life-altering reaction to something when they're tired, allergic and not eating well might have no issues when they're well-rested, well-nourished, and taking supplements or medication that reduce mast cell activation and support their overall health. Self-care, medical care and health status on the day of vaccination all can make a difference. 

Below are recommendations by Nancy Klimas, MD, earlier in the pandemic, to mitigate risk for people with ME/CFS who wanted to get vaccinated but weren't sure they'd tolerate the vaccine.

I've talked with people who had issues with one shot, then used some of the recommendations here and did fine with the next. There are no guarantees, of course, but knowing ways to mitigate risk helps weigh the individual risks and benefits of vaccination. And it's probably worthwhile for everyone to consider health status at the time of vaccination. 

https://www.nova.edu/nim/To-Vaccinate-or-Not-with-MECFS.html

You can mitigate the risk in a number of ways - just the way you do when you feel a relapse coming on. Before the vaccine, make sure you are taking enough antioxidants, particularly NAC or glutathione and CoQ10. The big mediator of post vaccination relapse and immediate reactions is mast cell activation. If it happens immediately, that is anaphylaxis, but if it happens slowly and low grade over days the mediators mast cells release can drive a classic ME/CFS relapse. So, take an antihistamine before and for several days after the vaccine – the strongest one you can tolerate. (Benadryl is one of the strongest, Zyrtec is another good choice). There are many mast cell stabilizers; watch Dr. Maitland's excellent lecture from out recent CME Workshop: Managing the Syndrome Soup: POTS, EDS, MCAS & ME/CFS, if you want to know more: http://bit.ly/NovaDysCME 

There are natural supplements that act to block or clear histamine and stabilize mast cells such as alpha lipoic acid, ascorbic acid, B6, diamine oxidase enzymes (DAO), luteolin, N-acetylcysteine (NAC), Omega-3's, riboflavin, SAMe, quercetin, and natural sources of theophylline like green and black teas. If you have been diagnosed with mast cell activation syndrome, it would make sense that your risk of an immediate reaction to any vaccine should be higher, though the data on the risk to people with mast cell activation syndrome or prior vaccine allergic reactions is not yet known with the COVID-19 vaccines. I suspect we will know fairly quickly, with millions of doses already administered. 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Acadie

[mommyoffive]

1 hour ago, kokotg said:

How great it would be to have boosters that are way more effective against infection? Fingers crossed (also, I'm glad to hear there are still people working on this; it seemed like everyone had just given up and we were resigned to getting covid constantly forever and just being glad it was less likely to kill us these days): https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/nasal-covid-vaccine-shows-promise-early-clinical-trial-rcna71841

I am crossing everything for this!

[KSera]

51 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I am crossing everything for this!

Me, too! So far, the previous nasal vaccines haven’t performed as well as had been hoped. This is a small trial, but I’m still going to remain hopeful. Like kokotg, I had reached the point of worrying that no one’s really working on this stuff anymore and that we were not going to get any more big developments unless and until we had a point where it was evident that allowing people to get Covid multiple times was a massive screwup and we needed another plan. I not infrequently have people ask me what our endgame is, as far as at what point we will no longer be masking in public and avoiding certain things, if ever. Something like this is basically what we’re waiting for. 

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, KSera said:

Me, too! So far, the previous nasal vaccines haven’t performed as well as had been hoped. This is a small trial, but I’m still going to remain hopeful. Like kokotg, I had reached the point of worrying that no one’s really working on this stuff anymore and that we were not going to get any more big developments unless and until we had a point where it was evident that allowing people to get Covid multiple times was a massive screwup and we needed another plan. I not infrequently have people ask me what our endgame is, as far as at what point we will no longer be masking in public and avoiding certain things, if ever. Something like this is basically what we’re waiting for. 

Me too.  I feel like it is so hard to answer that question when everyone else is going on about life as normal.  

[KSera]

4 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Me too.  I feel like it is so hard to answer that question when everyone else is going on about life as normal.  

Yep. I know darn well there are people who feel like it’s loony and unhinged to still care about Covid. At the same time, I know that that’s because they don’t actually know the risk they’re taking. It’s such a dice roll (and I’ve never been a gambler). 

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, Acadie said:

But we move up and down all the time, relative to our individual thresholds. Someone who has a life-altering reaction to something when they're tired, allergic and not eating well might have no issues when they're well-rested, well-nourished, and taking supplements or medication that reduce mast cell activation and support their overall health. Self-care, medical care and health status on the day of vaccination all can make a difference. 

Sure, but not everyone who has a vaccine reaction is having the same kind of reaction or the same disability afterward--not everything is ME/CFS or mast cell, etc. 

I'm not really trying to argue; I'm just saying that vaccine injury is not necessarily different from a negative reaction to the cumulative affects of ordinary infection for those who are susceptible--vaccine injury is often made out to be something especially bad. Barring a badly made or contaminated vaccine, it's not necessarily a unique response to a unique thing. 

But sure, if someone can make themselves less susceptible, that's great.

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, TCB said:

I remember so many of them so clearly, I guess because it was such a shocking experience.

My husband is very even-keeled, but he came home seriously bowled over by a young female patient that he was absolutely certain was going to die in ICU. He never glosses over things with patients even while being very real and compassionate, but he was just broadsided with how sick she was for no real reason. I think he felt at some point like he was separating the sheep from the goats as if it was the judgment day but doing so blindly--for a while there was just no rhyme or reason to who died. She ended up making it, but it seems like it was weeks or months for her to leave the hospital. 

[BeachGal]

The mucosal vaccines are going to be so interesting to watch! If they pan out, it will be such an amazing feat. The mrna vaccine made for the initial Covid variant was outstanding but if we can add a mucosal booster that annihilates the virus in the nose, then I think we will have crossed a huge, huge hurdle. Btw, Blue Willow is also working on a nasal vaccine in Covid. I hope at least one will work well! And surely they will learn a great deal along the way. Science marches on.

Here is the link to Covid vaccines still in the works if anyone is interested:

https://www.raps.org/news-and-articles/news-articles/2020/3/covid-19-vaccine-tracker

[mommyoffive]

Long Covid Weekly #34: New biomarkers, COVID-19 retinopathy and more (substack.com)

[kokotg]

Going back to the Is it vaccines or covid? heart attack risk thing, I just came across this: https://scitechdaily.com/covid-19-vaccination-linked-to-fewer-heart-attacks-strokes-and-other-cardiovascular-issues/

Quote

Analyzing the most extensive datasets in the United States, researchers from the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai have revealed that vaccination against COVID-19 is associated with fewer heart attacks, strokes, and other cardiovascular issues among people who were infected with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

 

[mommyoffive]

People’s CDC COVID19 Weather Report - People's CDC (substack.com)

 

 

The Weather: While transmission levels dropped slightly from last week, 92.64% of the population is living in areas with substantial or higher transmission and the percent living in counties with substantial transmission has increased, which is not a good trend.

 

 

[mommyoffive]

COVID-19 Origin Debate - by Katelyn Jetelina (substack.com)

[mommyoffive]

Paving the way for the world's first RSV vaccine, FDA advisers recommend shot from Pfizer (msn.com)

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

COVID-19 Origin Debate - by Katelyn Jetelina (substack.com)

Funny, but I didn't remember this...

Quote

Many initially dismissed lab spillover because of the original messenger (Trump) and because it was wrapped up in other conspiracy theories, like being a Chinese bio-weapon. (The claim that the virus was engineered is clearly debunked. There’s scientific evidence that it wasn’t an intentional event.) I admit that privately I initially dismissed the idea of a lab leak because of these reasons, which I constantly self-reflect on. As a scientist, I can do better with this noise. We all can. And, we must.

I honestly remember it as sounding like jumping to a conclusion and a conspiracy theory, but I didn't remember it being from Trump. I am really curious if I edited it in my mind over time or just never paid attention to where it came from, lol! 

[mommyoffive]

[mommyoffive]

[kbutton]

Our county health department also put out warnings about Asbury and the measles. I was surprised they did, but I am glad they're on it. 

[Spryte]

The outbreak at my parents’ nursing home continues. FIL most likely picked up Covid at MIL’s funeral, but staff members have been testing positive since just before that, so no way to know for sure. Now there are 22 positive residents and maybe 6 positive staff members. My mother is hiding out in her room, and masking in the halls if she has to go out.

FIL is over the worst of it, but still on oxygen. He is still symptomatic so will stay in isolation for the full 14 days. He’s unable to talk on the phone without help, and just sleeps all day. Doc says that wherever he ends up in the next few weeks may be his new normal, and not to expect too much. He will be 85 on Thurs. Covid has been hard on him. This is really hard.

 

[Kassia]

That is so sad, @Spryte.  I'm sorry.

[SHP]

13 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

So they will rely on people to do the right thing. People who may not have health insurance, or sick time, or the financial cushion to do that. In a country where "personal responsibility" means "other people" should do it.

[Harriet Vane]

@Spryte I'm so sorry about your father-in-law. I pray your mom can remain well. Warm hugs for you.

[Ausmumof3]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/potential-lab-incident-fbi-director-wray-speaks-publicly/story?id=97535563

[SHP]

I tested negative today. I hadn't finished my Paxlovid before testing negative. The person who gave it to me is still testing positive. 

[Ausmumof3]

On 3/1/2023 at 10:10 AM, kbutton said:

Funny, but I didn't remember this...

I honestly remember it as sounding like jumping to a conclusion and a conspiracy theory, but I didn't remember it being from Trump. I am really curious if I edited it in my mind over time or just never paid attention to where it came from, lol! 

It is sometimes so hard to remember back. I distinctly remember being all on board with the scientists who were saying Occam’s razor meant a lab leak was unlikely until someone on the forum pointed out that actually that made it more likely - that it came from the lab studying sars viruses 5km away versus being brought in from a bat cave 100s of km away. Anyway, I have had an open mind since then. But I do also remember it being a big talking point for Trump admirers - calling it China virus etc.

I really enjoyed Raina Mcintyres book on the history of lab leaks etc and how long it was before many of them were eventually admitted or discovered - decades later. Long enough for people who’s careers were at risk to have moved on. 

[kbutton]

8 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

But I do also remember it being a big talking point for Trump admirers - calling it China virus etc.

For sure!

8 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I really enjoyed Raina Mcintyres book on the history of lab leaks etc and how long it was before many of them were eventually admitted or discovered - decades later. Long enough for people who’s careers were at risk to have moved on. 

I haven't read the book, but this doesn't surprise me. I think that mistakes happen, and who should or shouldn't know is a sensitive thing--what will cause more panic? At the same time, if people are not fixing it or held accountable in some way...that's another problem.

[Jean in Newcastle]

10 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

It is sometimes so hard to remember back. I distinctly remember being all on board with the scientists who were saying Occam’s razor meant a lab leak was unlikely until someone on the forum pointed out that actually that made it more likely - that it came from the lab studying sars viruses 5km away versus being brought in from a bat cave 100s of km away. Anyway, I have had an open mind since then. But I do also remember it being a big talking point for Trump admirers - calling it China virus etc.

I really enjoyed Raina Mcintyres book on the history of lab leaks etc and how long it was before many of them were eventually admitted or discovered - decades later. Long enough for people who’s careers were at risk to have moved on. 

I said then, and I still say that for the actual development of treatment and in order to stop the progression of the virus, it didn't matter where it originated.  Especially back then, the theories about where it originated took away from attempts to control it, and did nothing to actually help in that regard.  Obviously the origin is important for other reasons - to keep it from happening again, for example.  But "don't tell us to mask because it was a lab leak" was a massively stupid reaction in my opinion. 

[mommyoffive]

Unraveling the RSV vaccine clinical trial data (substack.com)

[mommyoffive]

Study shows probiotics can reduce symptoms of COVID-19 when taken post-exposure (news-medical.net)

[Corraleno]

Quick summary of the probiotic study described in the article linked above:

RCT with 182 participants, given either a placebo or a probiotic (Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG) within 7 days of exposure to a confirmed covid case: 42.9% of placebo group developed symptoms vs 26.4% taking the probiotic (p = 0.02).

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.04.21268275v1

[KSera]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I said then, and I still say that for the actual development of treatment and in order to stop the progression of the virus, it didn't matter where it originated.  Especially back then, the theories about where it originated took away from attempts to control it, and did nothing to actually help in that regard.  Obviously the origin is important for other reasons - to keep it from happening again, for example.  But "don't tell us to mask because it was a lab leak" was a massively stupid reaction in my opinion. 

Agree. I agree with the Kaitlyn Jetelina and Caitlin Rivers’ takes shared above that regardless of whether this is ever found out to have come from the lab leak or not, the fact is that something like this could come from a lab leak and thus our actions in order to attempt to prevent that should happen regardless.