Josh Duggar Again

[AbcdeDooDah]

16 minutes ago, Annie G said:

It’s not looking good for Joshie.  Evidently the three witnesses he was trying to throw under the bus were definitely not the ones who downloaded, viewed, and (newly mentioned today) distributed the CSA. I think his best hope was the guy who had a criminal record…but sadly for Josh, the guy was in jail when the CSA was downloaded.  
I can’t wait for the trial to be over.  Although a plea deal saves trial expenses, and I generally want to save money, I worry a plea deal will include a light sentence.  

There was a plea offered and he declined it. I think it was back in March. It is in the exhibits section of the documents posted today on Reddit. It says Josh would qualify for all enhancements and would follow the sentencing guideline of 10 years. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[Annie G]

53 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

There was a plea offered and he declined it. I think it was back in March. It is in the exhibits section of the documents posted today on Reddit. It says Josh would qualify for all enhancements and would follow the sentencing guideline of 10 years. 

Thanks for the info. I’ve been trying to avoid reading the details of the actual CSAM he downloaded but did stumble into that description in today’s documents. Once I realized it, I backed out and didn’t read others. I appreciate the detail you provided because I just can’t read more of today’s documents. It just makes me so angry, and I’m bewildered that the judge is allowing him to see his children, especially the girls.  
Off to go watch a bit of cute cat and dog videos on Instagram so I can sleep tonight. Ugh. What a jerk. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Annie G said:

 Ugh. What a jerk. 

I think you mean, "what a creep "

The judge allowing him to see his girls, would probably be, " an idiot".

[busymama7]

3 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Hands, yes. I’ve not heard of feet but maybe different agencies do.

But why does he care? He's trying to get that evidence dismissed? Am I confused? (Covid fog is rampant here 😩)

[AbcdeDooDah]

2 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

But why does he care? He's trying to get that evidence dismissed? Am I confused? (Covid fog is rampant here 😩)

We don’t know for sure but the document said they matched other images on his phone or something. I don’t want to think about it too much.

[Excelsior! Academy]

3 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

But why does he care? He's trying to get that evidence dismissed? Am I confused? (Covid fog is rampant here 😩)

I read on here  (A different thread maybe?) that photographs of hand can be used to identify creeps uploading photos.  As in their hands are in the photos.

[busymama7]

4 minutes ago, Excelsior! Academy said:

I read on here  (A different thread maybe?) that photographs of hand can be used to identify creeps uploading photos.  As in their hands are in the photos.

🤮🤮🤮😭😭😭 Oh

[Laura Corin]

58 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

🤮🤮🤮😭😭😭 Oh

Yes. I posted that I heard an interview with a professional who spent their days identifying hands in photos and videos and testifying as an expert witness in court.

[Katy]

11 hours ago, busymama7 said:

I think I'm missing some details. What do the photographs of his hands mean? Why were they taken? Is that standard at booking?

It’s normal in many places to take pictures to show he wasn’t beaten by the arresting officers. Idk about federal though.

The pictures in question show his bare hands and feet in shoes. I didn’t watch much of it but Katie Joy posted something last night claiming the real reason was that perhaps his hands were in the pictures his phone had taken at his desk while the CSAM was being downloaded. Now she tends to post very flimsy theories as headlines and I didn’t have time to watch a two hour video yesterday so idk if she had anything more than the idea that it might be why. 

[ktgrok]

10 hours ago, busymama7 said:

But why does he care? He's trying to get that evidence dismissed? Am I confused? (Covid fog is rampant here 😩)

 

9 hours ago, Excelsior! Academy said:

I read on here  (A different thread maybe?) that photographs of hand can be used to identify creeps uploading photos.  As in their hands are in the photos.

It COULD be that they are trying to match him to images of CSAM, But more likely, it is to match him to photos taken at the car lot during the time it was accessed. We already knew that one reason they knew he was the one there at that time were photos/texts he sent his wife that day. So if he sent a photo of his coffee mug with his hand in the image, you could prove it was him, and since the photo is time stamped and you can see where it was taken, it proves he was at his desk when it happened. 

Reddit has a guy named nugget who is a third year law student and breaks all the legalese down really well. 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by ktgrok

[Katy]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

 

It COULD be that they are trying to match him to images of CSAM, But more likely, it is to match him to photos taken at the car lot during the time it was accessed. We already knew that one reason they knew he was the one there at that time were photos/texts he sent his wife that day. So if he sent a photo of his coffee mug with his hand in the image, you could prove it was him, and since the photo is time stamped and you can see where it was taken, it proves he was at his desk when it happened. 

Reddit has a guy named nugget who is a third year law student and breaks all the legalese down really well. 

 

Is this the one?  I don't have time to read it just now, but I thought I would link in case some of you do.  https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/pm2fx3/nuggetsofchicken_reacts_to_governments_response/

 

[ktgrok]

55 minutes ago, Katy said:

Is this the one?  I don't have time to read it just now, but I thought I would link in case some of you do.  https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/pm2fx3/nuggetsofchicken_reacts_to_governments_response/

 

That's one of them, I went back and added a link to the whole series of his posts on the varoius motions. 

[Katy]

Huge language warning, but Emily Baker, an attorney with a history of prosecuting state CP cases is analyzing Josh's case and I'm learning a lot.

 

[Annie G]

Why did Josh say (during the execution of the search warrant) that he might need to leave because his wife might give birth?  That seems…odd. 
 

Question- it seems like they knew he downloaded the content the very day he did so. Is that any indication that perhaps this was the first time he’d downloaded such content? I mean, he had his laptop partitioned and all, so it seems like he went to a lot of effort to hide the content. I’m alternately thinking he was smart enough to know how to access the dark web, but stupid enough to use the same password as he uses for his bank accounts, etc.   So…is it likely he got caught the first time he downloaded the content, or no?

[Katy]

22 minutes ago, Annie G said:

Why did Josh say (during the execution of the search warrant) that he might need to leave because his wife might give birth?  That seems…odd. 
 

Question- it seems like they knew he downloaded the content the very day he did so. Is that any indication that perhaps this was the first time he’d downloaded such content? I mean, he had his laptop partitioned and all, so it seems like he went to a lot of effort to hide the content. I’m alternately thinking he was smart enough to know how to access the dark web, but stupid enough to use the same password as he uses for his bank accounts, etc.   So…is it likely he got caught the first time he downloaded the content, or no?

Mariella (I think I spelled that wrong) was born a week or two after they interviewed Josh.  He was telling the truth there.

In the bond hearing the agent said that it was not the first time he had done this.  They could see he'd done this at least a few times before.  The drive had been partitioned, illegal files downloaded, and then those were deleted (badly) as if Josh gave in, downloaded something, felt ashamed and deleted it but without wiping the drive, and did it again over and over.  They caught him because the specific file he downloaded was SO bad they had an agent watching for people to openly download it and trace them.

 

[Annie G]

I didn’t realize she got pregnant so soon after Maryella was born. I don’t know how I missed that- they’re having their 7th kid this fall, so of course they’re close in age.  I think I missed a year, thinking the warrant was last fall and the arrest this spring. Covid quarantine life has really messed with my ability to keep track of time passing. 
 

Thanks for the info, Katy. 

[TravelingChris]

The judge dismissed all the stupid claims this week.  

[Annie G]

2 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

The judge dismissed all the stupid claims this week.  

You think he’ll cut a deal, or will there be a trial? 

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, Annie G said:

You think he’ll cut a deal, or will there be a trial? 

I have two theories. One, he might cut a deal IF he has any backbone and wants to save as much of his hide as possible. But two, I think daddy Duggar will be against a deal because it will mean pleading guilty, and that is so much harder to JimBob and Chelle to twist around to where their family is the martyr. 

I think a deal will be difficult because in all likelihood, it will involve not being able to be around minors, and only having supervised visits with his children which means he and Anna would not be able to live together, and he would not be able to be around his siblings' children so it presents big problem in terms of trying to reclaim their happy dappy family persona. 

Plus, plea deal with the feds does not exempt him from state charges. So if he doesn't go away long enough to satisfy Arkansas, they can also try him. The police officer that JB took that den Josh to for "counseling" was himself a pedophile who was convicted shortly after that on enough counts to win the prize of a 54 year sentence. So I don't assume that the law is done with him regardless of the outcome of the federal case. I think the D.A. locally is going to want a piece of his skin if the feds don't throw the book at him because when Smuggar is released, he will end up right back in their jurisdiction which is not going to make the D.A., child protective services, or local Leo's any too happy.

[TravelingChris]

21 minutes ago, Annie G said:

You think he’ll cut a deal, or will there be a trial? 

I don't think he will cut a deal.  Dad doesn't want him too.

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, Annie G said:

You think he’ll cut a deal, or will there be a trial? 

She confused me too - the defense motions were dismissed. (one incl.. dismissing all charges.)  I rather doubt the prosecutors are willing to cut him a deal.

[gardenmom5]

I wonder if Josh's behavior - and daddy's insistence that poor Josh is a martyr - has anything to do with just married Justin Dugger settling in Texas - over 300 miles away . . . 

Edited October 14, 2021 by gardenmom5

[Faith-manor]

36 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I wonder if Josh's behavior - and daddy's insistence that poor Josh is a martyr - has anything to do with just married Justin Dugger settling in Texas - over 300 miles away . . . 

If that kid is smart, he will take a page out of Jill and Derrick's book. Run boy run!

[Annie G]

2 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

I don't think he will cut a deal.  Dad doesn't want him too.

I’m not quite as convinced.  If he makes a deal, the gossip will eventually die down and they can resume speaking at Big Sandy and such. And it’s not as if the married girls aren’t still shilling all kinds of products on social media- the scandal hasn’t hurt the income the girls earn.  Maybe JB will decide if Josh is guilty he might as well make a deal to avoid further details from coming out and tarnishing the family.  

[Katy]

6 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

The judge dismissed all the stupid claims this week.  

I don’t think the judge has addressed motion 37 yet.  The one that would throw out the whole case.  It discussed whether the government could trace files on the internet that way or if using a tor browser had an inherent expectation of privacy. 

[TravelingChris]

29 minutes ago, Katy said:

I don’t think the judge has addressed motion 37 yet.  The one that would throw out the whole case.  It discussed whether the government could trace files on the internet that way or if using a tor browser had an inherent expectation of privacy. 

I am not sure.  He did dismiss the stupid argument that the temp head of the agency meant it was unconstitutional.  I am not sure of every count that was dismissed but thr quotes of the judge about the case really makes me think that he will not dismiss the case.  Others have already been convicted on child porn and using tor.  I think you have no expectation of privacy on the internet to do crimes.

[Katy]

5 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I am not sure.  He did dismiss the stupid argument that the temp head of the agency meant it was unconstitutional.  I am not sure of every count that was dismissed but thr quotes of the judge about the case really makes me think that he will not dismiss the case.  Others have already been convicted on child porn and using tor.  I think you have no expectation of privacy on the internet to do crimes.

I agree with you.  But it’s odd that all of the what? 8 other claims would be dismissed except that one. I think that not being addressed is the reason they left the courthouse with that stupid grin.

I saw somewhere that they sold a house they own for $450k. I bet that’s the retainer required to not plead out. Which might mean JB is done paying for this charade. 

[gardenmom5]

7 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

If that kid is smart, he will take a page out of Jill and Derrick's book. Run boy run!

Even if he doesn't - the distance will effectively help him be less influence by his father.

[Faith-manor]

I was just reading online in a legal blog that ALL motions have been dismissed. At the end of September, four of the five were tossed, but Wednesday, the judge tossed 37. I hope that is true. I am having a hard time finding confirmation, but several news articles have said all the motions have been dismissed now, so I think it could be true. I just haven't been able to find anyone citing the actual court verbiage concerning 37.

[AnotherNewName]

14 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

I am not sure.  He did dismiss the stupid argument that the temp head of the agency meant it was unconstitutional.  I am not sure of every count that was dismissed but thr quotes of the judge about the case really makes me think that he will not dismiss the case.  Others have already been convicted on child porn and using tor.  I think you have no expectation of privacy on the internet to do crimes.

Actually convictions involving Tor are relatively rare and have been (to my knowledge) due to a deployed exploit.  In those cases the exploit was deployed via a subject matter site or material and was not by casting a wide net against all Tor users.

In this case from what I read Tor has nothing to do with how they connected the activity to Duggar so a high level exploit would not have been needed, It sounds like to me that he was using a BitTorrent application of some manner supposedly with some kind privacy extension.  For what I know of torrents (slightly above nothing but not far from it), torrent traffic itself is not encrypted or protected in any way and the sharing of files is easily tracked to either the IP address hosting the files or the ones downloading the files.  Which is why when Napster, Limewire, and other hosts were popular it was easy for the music industry to track down those sharing large numbers of copyrighted works.

Legally there is a difference between the government running a targeted exploit against those the government can show are knowingly engaging in illegal activity (logging on to a deep web site and intentionally downloading a file with illegal material) and the government hacking/bypassing encryption or privacy barriers to see if illegal activity is being conducted.  My suspicion is that his attorneys are exaggerating/being disingenuous about either the methods law enforcement used to trace his activties or the nature and privacy level of the software he was using.

If the BitTorrent extension does put up some type of privacy shield (and again I am not clear that it does), then the legal question becomes whether or not the government needs a warrant to access the IP address of the host or downloader of illegal material. My guess is this is not the first rodeo for the FBI with whatever software this is and the agents would know if a warrant was needed. But agents do make mistakes so it is a reasonable argument for his defense attorneys to take and maybe get the case punted on a longshot.

Edited October 15, 2021 by AnotherNewName

[AnotherNewName]

Based on this article 4 motions were dismissed. The one about the software is not mentioned.

Judge denies motions filed in Josh Duggar child porn case | 5newsonline.com

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

I was just reading online in a legal blog that ALL motions have been dismissed. At the end of September, four of the five were tossed, but Wednesday, the judge tossed 37. I hope that is true. I am having a hard time finding confirmation, but several news articles have said all the motions have been dismissed now, so I think it could be true. I just haven't been able to find anyone citing the actual court verbiage concerning 37.

Do you have a link?

[Faith-manor]

3 minutes ago, Katy said:

Do you have a link?

I don't normally use Fox. But this was a local news station. One of many I looked at. I think the last motion they address is motion 37 but they didn't number them, and I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on t.v. 😂 https://www.nwahomepage.com/northwest-arkansas-news/josh-duggars-trial-to-continue-motions-to-dismiss-evidence-denied/

I really want someone to large it out. I am sure the transcripts are available online, but I am no good at finding them.

 

[Katy]

4 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I don't normally use Fox. But this was a local news station. One of many I looked at. I think the last motion they address is motion 37 but they didn't number them, and I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on t.v. 😂 https://www.nwahomepage.com/northwest-arkansas-news/josh-duggars-trial-to-continue-motions-to-dismiss-evidence-denied/

I really want someone to large it out. I am sure the transcripts are available online, but I am no good at finding them.

 

There's a lawyer I follow on YouTube, Emily Baker something.  She often does a live on Friday nights.  If they've all been dismissed she'll probably mention it.  (Language warning).

[HS Mom in NC]

4 minutes ago, Katy said:

There's a lawyer I follow on YouTube, Emily Baker something.  She often does a live on Friday nights.  If they've all been dismissed she'll probably mention it.  (Language warning).

She used to prosecute these types of cases. Here's her channel:https://www.youtube.com/c/TheEmilyDBaker/videos

[Katy]

13 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I don't normally use Fox. But this was a local news station. One of many I looked at. I think the last motion they address is motion 37 but they didn't number them, and I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on t.v. 😂 https://www.nwahomepage.com/northwest-arkansas-news/josh-duggars-trial-to-continue-motions-to-dismiss-evidence-denied/

I really want someone to large it out. I am sure the transcripts are available online, but I am no good at finding them.

 

Federal case transcripts are online, but you have to purchase them.  I don't care enough to pay $27 now, I'll wait for someone on YouTube to put them up.

[Katy]

Katie from WithoutACrystalBall just posted on Instagram that motion 37 has been denied.  Which means every motion has been denied.  I think he only has today to accept a plea or not. 

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, Katy said:

Katie from WithoutACrystalBall just posted on Instagram that motion 37 has been denied.  Which means every motion has been denied.  I think he only has today to accept a plea or not. 

He needs to be locked up for a long time - at least until his youngest is an adult.

[cbollin]

 did y'all just see that Jim Bob is running for a vacated senate seat in Arkansas?  announced today

 

[lauraw4321]

1 minute ago, cbollin said:

 did y'all just see that Jim Bob is running for a vacated senate seat in Arkansas?  announced today

 

🤮

[Annie G]

I don’t know who the other candidate is, but he’d have to be really awful for me to vote for JB.  

[Katy]

Without a Crystal Ball just put up a long video about it, trying to connect his constitutional concerns to Josh’s case.  Feels like a stretch to me, and that he meant mask and vaccine mandates.

[Faith-manor]

I have no proof but suspect that Moscow's defense bill is getting rather huge, the side businesses have likely taken a hit, one of the boys just got married and is moving out of Arkansas so won't be working for daddy boob, and the show canceled is probably NOT going to have a reboot so money is a concern given that they don't seem to be inclined as a family to work in normal work environments, so as a result, he is looking to bring in campaign funds and live off of it for as long as he can.

There is a sub reddit forum where a lot of folks are banding together to try to trash the campaign. I think the first place to start is with campaign posters that say, "Grifting creep who protected his pedophile, pervert son from consequences for molesting his own sisters, protected him again when caught on Ashley Madison cheating on his wife, and now paying for the defense of same pervert who downloaded the worst CSA in history causing seasoned LEO's to puke, wants to talk to you about " family values". Tell him to jump off a cliff on election day!" Put them up all over the district.

Hey Arkansas, don't be Florida. Don't let your state tell Florida, "Hold my beer!" Shut this down.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Faith-manor

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, cbollin said:

 did y'all just see that Jim Bob is running for a vacated senate seat in Arkansas?  announced today

 

seriously -🙄🤮🚫

we need a fainting emoji . . . . found one

[gardenmom5]

2 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I have no proof but suspect that Moscow's defense bill is getting rather huge, the side businesses have likely taken a hit, one of the boys just got married and is moving out of Arkansas so won't be working for daddy boob, and the show canceled is probably NOT going to have a reboot so money is a concern given that they don't seem to be inclined as a family to work in normal work environments, so as a result, he is looking to bring in campaign funds and live off of it for as long as he can.

There is a sub reddit forum where a lot of folks are banding together to try to trash the campaign. I think the first place to start is with campaign posters that say, "Gritting creep who protected his pedophile, pervert son from consequences for molesting his own sisters, protected him again when caught on Ashley Madison cheating on his wife, and now paying for the defense of same pervert who downloaded the worst CSA in history causing seasoned LEO's to puke, wants to talk to you about " family values". Tell him to jump off a cliff on election day!" Put them up all over the district.

Hey Arkansas, don't be Florida. Don't let your state tell Florida, "Hold my beer!" Shut this down.

do you mean "grifting"?

and it should be emphathized - JB put his offender son ahead of his (JB's) own daughters!  I'm far more disgusted by that than that JB molested his sisters (to whom he had easy access.).

[Faith-manor]

4 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

do you mean "grifting"?

and it should be emphathized - JB put his offender son ahead of his (JB's) own daughters!  I'm far more disgusted by that than that JB molested his sisters (to whom he had easy access.).

Yes, so just fixed it. I hate my kindle! It has a grudge against me.

[MeaganS]

5 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

 

 nm

Edited October 30, 2021 by MeaganS

[Faith-manor]

5 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

I have no proof but suspect that Josh's defense bill is 

I fixed yet another autocorrect. I would really like the phone number of the individuals responsible for this software.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Faith-manor

[extendedforecast]

On 7/1/2021 at 10:39 PM, KungFuPanda said:

I think the first Dugger kid willing to switch their show style to a tell-all about ATI abuse will win the reality TV lottery.  It's a matter of who blinks first.  My money is on Jill and Derick since they're already comfortable being on the outs.

Or hear me out . . . a movie.  Probably a straight-to-tv Lifetime or Hallmark type movie, but still.

You called it! 

[Katy]

23 minutes ago, extendedforecast said:

You called it! 

Wait, what? Link?