DH got Johnson 1-2 months ago and is considering Pfizer

[crazyforlatin]

He has a pre-existing condition and is considering getting the first shot of Pfizer this weekend after getting the Johnson vaccine about 1-2 months ago. His work area happens have open slots and he’s scheduled for one on Sunday.

He works at an office and does some of the shopping for us.

 He didn’t have a reaction from Johnson, and we weren’t sure if it was injected correctly. He is overweight and that’s part of the concern.

I don’t believe he is taking a spot from anyone else as there are several openings this weekend. 
 

Is it ok to mix and match? 
 

ETA: Meant DH, not Dd who isn’t 16 yet

Edited April 30, 2021 by crazyforlatin

[mommyoffive]

I have no idea.  I didn't know you can get 2?

[crazyforlatin]

Just now, mommyoffive said:

I have no idea.  I didn't know you can get 2?

I have no idea, but he’s concerned enough to book an appointment due to health issues. 
 

We don’t know anyone who has done this, and I don’t think any doctor would give approval.

I guess the question is since one is mRNA and the Johnson one is not, would it be ok to get Pfizer after Johnson? 

[Catwoman]

I don’t know anyone who has gotten another brand of vaccine after having already been fully vaccinated.

[Catwoman]

Just now, crazyforlatin said:

I have no idea, but he’s concerned enough to book an appointment due to health issues. 
 

We don’t know anyone who has done this, and I don’t think any doctor would give approval.

I guess the question is since one is mRNA and the Johnson one is not, would it be ok to get Pfizer after Johnson? 

I really think he needs to discuss this with his doctor.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

Many, many people are not reporting any side effects from J&J.  Personally neither my husband or my grandmother even got a sore arm.

Why would he think it wasn’t given right? To be honest; it’s kind of hard to screw up a sub-q shot.  

[staceyobu]

Don't do it. It's normal to NOT have side effects. 

[Lanny]

The only person I know that I am sure has had the Janssen (J&J) vaccine is an elderly (about 75) cousin in California. She had it on April 1st.  She had issues afterwards, for approximately 14 days,  but she also told me that she has been sensitive to medicines and flu vaccines all of her life so she is probably not a good example.  I believe that the issues she had were worse during the first few days after the injection and gradually tapered off as days passed.

The other people I know who've had COVID-19 vaccines and are in the USA have all had Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna. They use very similar technology.

The other vaccines, Janssen and AstraZeneca and one of the Chinese vaccines they are giving here in Colombia which is called Sinovac (among other vaccines here) use a different technology and have had some issues.  Janssen is approved in the USA and so far AstraZeneca hasn't applied for an EUA in the USA.  I think it is possible AstraZeneca will not apply for an EUA.  I don't think there have been issues with Sinovac, but AstraZenecca and Janssen you can Google for issues.  AstraZeneca has a long list of issues...

NOTE: Pfizer/BioNTech has applied for (or received) permission in the USA to have their EUA extended downward to where they can give it to older children, starting at age 12 or 15. If I was in his shoes, I would ask my doctor and if it OK to have a follow on of a different type of vaccine, after that time lapse, I would go for Pfizer/BioNTech.

Again, Moderna uses the same technology as Pfizer/BioNTech.

IMO women below the age of 60 should try to get the Pfizer/BioNTech or the Moderna vaccine, if at all possible. That's my suggestion to my DD and my DW.

 

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, Lanny said:

IMO women below the age of 60 should try to get the Pfizer/BioNTech or the Moderna vaccine, if at all possible. That's my suggestion to my DD and my DW.

 

Why are these considered superior to J&J for this population?

[Syllieann]

5 minutes ago, SKL said:

Why are these considered superior to J&J for this population?

Most of the blood clotting issues are in younger women.

[Lanny]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Why are these considered superior to J&J for this population?

The vaccines with the older technology, Janssen (J&J) and AstraZeneca and  Sinovac and others seem to have more risks for younger women. Younger than 60.   Also, a few men have had severe problems from clotting with those. Possibly there are other vaccines using those older technologies that I can't remember this late in the day... 

[Corraleno]

3 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

He has a pre-existing condition and is considering getting the first shot of Pfizer this weekend after getting the Johnson vaccine about 1-2 months ago. His work area happens have open slots and he’s scheduled for one on Sunday.

He works at an office and does some of the shopping for us.

 He didn’t have a reaction from Johnson, and we weren’t sure if it was injected correctly. He is overweight and that’s part of the concern.

I don’t believe he is taking a spot from anyone else as there are several openings this weekend. 
 

Is it ok to mix and match? 

The UK currently has a study in which people get two different shots, with various combinations of Moderna, Pfizer, or AZ. AZ is likely similar enough to J&J that the results would be equally applicable. But the study is ongoing and they simply don't have the data on that now.

It's important to understand that immunity from the adenovirus vaccines seems to continue increasing for at least 3 months after the shot. Not just that it remains effective for three months, but that it actually gets more effective over time. That's why the UK is waiting 3 months between doses of AZ — that actually provided higher levels of efficacy than doing them a month apart. So even if your DH is determined to get another shot, it would be better for him to wait another couple of months. J&J should be releasing data on their two-dose trial by then, and it may be recommended to get a second J&J dose. He may also prefer to just wait and get another dose in 6 months when there will likely be boosters available, and there should be no issue by then of him getting a different type of shot.

ETA: He should also be aware that he will need to complete paperwork that asks if he's had another vaccine recently. If he answers honestly that he had a shot of J&J, they won't give him Pfizer. If he lies that he hasn't had a shot before, and he has a bad reaction because of the combination, doctors may not take it seriously enough because they don't have an accurate history.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Corraleno

[crazyforlatin]

15 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The UK currently has a study in which people get two different shots, with various combinations of Moderna, Pfizer, or AZ. AZ is likely similar enough to J&J that the results would be equally applicable. But the study is ongoing and they simply don't have the data on that now.

It's important to understand that immunity from the adenovirus vaccines seems to continue increasing for at least 3 months after the shot. Not just that it remains effective for three months, but that it actually gets more effective over time. That's why the UK is waiting 3 months between doses of AZ — that actually provided higher levels of efficacy than doing them a month apart. So even if your son is determined to get another shot, it would be better for him to wait another couple of months. J&J should be releasing data on their two-dose trial by then, and it may be recommended to get a second J&J dose. He may also prefer to just wait and get another dose in 6 months when there will likely be boosters available, and there should be no issue by then of him getting a different type of shot.

ETA: He should also be aware that he will need to complete paperwork that asks if he's had another vaccine recently. If he answers honestly that he had a shot of J&J, they won't give him Pfizer. If he lies that he hasn't had a shot before, and he has a bad reaction because of the combination, doctors may not take it seriously enough because they don't have an accurate history.

Thanks, this is really helpful, JJ was at Kaiser and Pfizer is at a local pharmacy, but if there is paperwork then DH won’t be getting it.

[kokotg]

He can get his antibodies tested if he's worried the vaccine didn't do the trick. My NP offers it to everyone, and says she plans to check her own every couple of months. You just have to make sure it's the "spike" test that tests for the antibodies from the vaccine specifically and not a general covid antibody test. Unless there's something different about J&J vs. the MRNA shots WRT to antibodies.

[katilac]

5 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

 A vaccine can trigger deadly effects like the polio vaccine can rebound and cause polio. It is an 80 year old vaccine I think but it can still rebound and cause polio even now. It can cause paralysis. 

Just to clarify, the live polio vaccine is not used in America or most (all?) developed countries. The live, oral vaccine is still used in many countries because it is cheap and easy to use, and because there is not enough of the injectable, dead vaccine currently being manufactured to go around anyway. 

 

[Catwoman]

@crazyforlatin — just checking in to see whether or not your dh is still planning to go for the other shot tomorrow. 

I tried to look it up to see if I could find any information for you, but I can’t find anything other than people guessing about it, and that’s not helpful. 

I hope he decides to wait on getting a second type of vaccine until he talks to a doctor about it. There are so many things we don’t yet know about the side effects and after-effects of any of the Covid vaccinations, so what your dh is considering doing might turn out to be perfectly safe... but what if it doesn’t? If he had some sort of terrible reaction within the next few weeks, would the doctors even know how to help him? Is there a possibility that one vaccine could negate the effects of the other, and then neither one would work properly? 

I just keep thinking about this, and there are so many unknowns. Your dh already had a shot and it probably worked. I think he would be a lot better off assuming he was at least partially protected from the virus, and then taking normal precautions like masking and distancing, rather than taking this kind of risk with the additional vaccine.

I am probably just being overly paranoid, but I feel like there is no good reason for your dh to make himself a human guinea pig, when he is already considered to be fully vaccinated. 

 

[crazyforlatin]

52 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

@crazyforlatin — just checking in to see whether or not your dh is still planning to go for the other shot tomorrow. 

I tried to look it up to see if I could find any information for you, but I can’t find anything other than people guessing about it, and that’s not helpful. 

I hope he decides to wait on getting a second type of vaccine until he talks to a doctor about it. There are so many things we don’t yet know about the side effects and after-effects of any of the Covid vaccinations, so what your dh is considering doing might turn out to be perfectly safe... but what if it doesn’t? If he had some sort of terrible reaction within the next few weeks, would the doctors even know how to help him? Is there a possibility that one vaccine could negate the effects of the other, and then neither one would work properly? 

I just keep thinking about this, and there are so many unknowns. Your dh already had a shot and it probably worked. I think he would be a lot better off assuming he was at least partially protected from the virus, and then taking normal precautions like masking and distancing, rather than taking this kind of risk with the additional vaccine.

I am probably just being overly paranoid, but I feel like there is no good reason for your dh to make himself a human guinea pig, when he is already considered to be fully vaccinated. 

 

That’s very kind of you to think of us.  I was going to post a response last night but the system wouldn’t let me. DH canceled due to a couple of reasons. He’s going to wait for the UK study and if the pharmacy requires ID and paperwork he wouldn’t be able to get it anyway. We’re in CA and I thought I read somewhere that certain places were not going to ask for IDs to encourage illegal immigrants to get the vaccine. So we weren’t sure what the protocol would be. What started this was that our friends, a couple who did get the Johnson vaccine were both thinking of getting the Pfizer vaccine as well, and due to their indecision, DH decided to go ahead and make an appointment if there seemed to be enough (his work area has more supply than demand at this point). If they hadn’t suggested it, I don’t think DH would have given a second thought about his shot
 

 

[Catwoman]

10 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

That’s very kind of you to think of us.  I was going to post a response last night but the system wouldn’t let me. DH canceled due to a couple of reasons. He’s going to wait for the UK study and if the pharmacy requires ID and paperwork he wouldn’t be able to get it anyway. We’re in CA and I thought I read somewhere that certain places were not going to ask for IDs to encourage illegal immigrants to get the vaccine. So we weren’t sure what the protocol would be. What started this was that our friends, a couple who did get the Johnson vaccine were both thinking of getting the Pfizer vaccine as well, and due to their indecision, DH decided to go ahead and make an appointment if there seemed to be enough (his work area has more supply than demand at this point). If they hadn’t suggested it, I don’t think DH would have given a second thought about his shot
 

 

 

I’m relieved to hear that he canceled. My dh has health concerns, too, so I definitely understood why your dh was considering getting another shot. Covid is scary, and we all want to protect ourselves and our loved ones as best we can!

I keep watching the news for new information about the safety and efficacy of mixing vaccine types as time goes on, particularly as booster shots are needed to cover variants. 

It’s so hard, because all of this is brand new and there are so many unknowns!

[mathnerd]

I came back to this thread to post that I read on the AARP website some time last week that it is not recommended to mix vaccine types. If I find that article, I will come back here to link it.

[JennyD]

OP, my BIL has been wondering the same thing.  He was part of the JnJ trial and received a shot in early December.  He subsequently took two antibody tests (one for the spike protein) and both were negative, so he assumed he was in the placebo group.  Then in mid-March when they were unblinded, he discovered that he had actually received the vaccine.  

So he is somewhat at a loss as to what to do.  On the one hand, he was definitely vaccinated, and those antibody tests are not perfectly reliable.  But on the other hand ....how protected is he?  His doctor is also not sure of what to do and has contacted the CDC.  In the meantime, BIL is waiting for the results of the 2-dose JnJ trial.  

 

[mathnerd]

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56730526

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/can-we-mix-and-match-covid-19-vaccines-experts-say-not-yet
some information on mixing vaccines 

Edited May 2, 2021 by mathnerd

[Penelope]

CDC guidelines on mixing vaccine doses.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/clinical-considerations.html

Scroll to “Interchangeability of COVID-19 vaccine products”. And then they have guidance on what to do if you received partial or full vaccination in another country with vaccines we don’t have in the US. 
 
 

Quote

 

 

[Katy]

I am no expert, but... Many pharmacies have antibody tests.  If someone is concerned they generally cost less than $30.  If the test is negative I don't see how it would hurt to get a different shot.  If you have antibodies you don't need a shot.

[KungFuPanda]

This is a very bad, almost paranoid, Dr. Google type of idea.  He should NOT do this unless his doctor advises it for some reason.  A LOT of people have zero symptoms after one shot.  I got every J&J symptom, but my son go zero symptoms beyond a sore injection site for a day.  It's variable, and since we all get the same dose regardless of weight, I can see a bigger guy having an easier time of it than a 100 lb woman.  Please talk your husband out of practicing medicine on himself.  He can always choose a different brand when we all get boosters next year.

[crazyforlatin]

5 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

This is a very bad, almost paranoid, Dr. Google type of idea.  He should NOT do this unless his doctor advises it for some reason.  A LOT of people have zero symptoms after one shot.  I got every J&J symptom, but my son go zero symptoms beyond a sore injection site for a day.  It's variable, and since we all get the same dose regardless of weight, I can see a bigger guy having an easier time of it than a 100 lb woman.  Please talk your husband out of practicing medicine on himself.  He can always choose a different brand when we all get boosters next year.

He didn’t need much convincing to cancel the appt. It was more to do with our friends hoping he would try it since he’s been very enthusiastic about the vaccines (he had no hesitancy at all the moment the vaccines were made available), whereas they refused to get vaxed until more recently but right before DH since he didn’t qualify until the state opened it up to 50+. They got J and J earlier than DH due to being government employees. Since he wasn’t too worried about mixing the vaccines, he volunteered himself when they asked.
 

But DH wouldn’t have been able to get a different vaccine today due to the ID requirement. 
 

 

[SoCal_Bear]

@crazyforlatinI read that the Pfizer CEO was talking about booster shots for between 6 to 12 months from vax. So that would put your DH into the fall which is probably when you would want peak level of antibody response anyways.

[Roadrunner]

14 hours ago, JennyD said:

OP, my BIL has been wondering the same thing.  He was part of the JnJ trial and received a shot in early December.  He subsequently took two antibody tests (one for the spike protein) and both were negative, so he assumed he was in the placebo group.  Then in mid-March when they were unblinded, he discovered that he had actually received the vaccine.  

So he is somewhat at a loss as to what to do.  On the one hand, he was definitely vaccinated, and those antibody tests are not perfectly reliable.  But on the other hand ....how protected is he?  His doctor is also not sure of what to do and has contacted the CDC.  In the meantime, BIL is waiting for the results of the 2-dose JnJ trial.  

 

A vaccinated person is very likely to get a negative result from a serology test, even if the vaccine was successful and protective. That’s because different serology tests detect antibodies to different parts of the virus.

Some tests detect antibodies to the spike protein of the virus, which are produced in response to viral infection or the vaccine. Others detect antibodies to a different part of the virus called the nucleocapsid protein, which are produced in response to infection, but not by the current vaccines.
MD Anderson’s Blood Bank uses an antibody test designed to detect antibodies to the nucleocapsid protein, which means donors who have received the COVID-19 vaccine will likely receive a negative antibody test result.
 

 

[JennyD]

7 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

A vaccinated person is very likely to get a negative result from a serology test, even if the vaccine was successful and protective. That’s because different serology tests detect antibodies to different parts of the virus.

Some tests detect antibodies to the spike protein of the virus, which are produced in response to viral infection or the vaccine. Others detect antibodies to a different part of the virus called the nucleocapsid protein, which are produced in response to infection, but not by the current vaccines.
MD Anderson’s Blood Bank uses an antibody test designed to detect antibodies to the nucleocapsid protein, which means donors who have received the COVID-19 vaccine will likely receive a negative antibody test result.
 

 

Thanks.  Yes, I believe that the first test he took, back in January, was the nucleocapsid protein one, which presumably was not particularly informative.  He then took the spike protein test and it, too, came back negative.  

From everything we've read, even that test can't really tell with confidence whether he's protected, but it's a bit unnerving.  He's hoping that the JnJ 2-dose trial comes back with good results, so he can just go get a second dose of the same vaccine.

 

[kokotg]

54 minutes ago, JennyD said:

 

From everything we've read, even that test can't really tell with confidence whether he's protected, but it's a bit unnerving.  He's hoping that the JnJ 2-dose trial comes back with good results, so he can just go get a second dose of the same vaccine.

 

Ah, interesting. I've been going back and forth about whether to have mine tested, and that kind of tilts me toward no. I don't have any reason to think my vaccine wasn't effective, and I don't think there's anything I could do about it right now if the antibodies came back negative anyway. I know of three people other than my NP who had their (spike) antibody tests done--my mother and stepfather's both came back showing antibodies and then I have a friend who had hers tested because she was concerned that a medication she used to take for cancer would interfere with antibody production--hers came back positive, too. My husband just got tested the other day but doesn't have the results yet. We definitely wanted to test his because he takes an immunosuppressant. 

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, kokotg said:

Ah, interesting. I've been going back and forth about whether to have mine tested, and that kind of tilts me toward no. 

Yeah, every expert I’ve seen comment on it pretty much says don’t check antibodies after vaccine. Maybe eventually it will be helpful in knowing whether one needs a booster, but now it could just result in needless anxiety without knowing what to do with the result. 
 

They still don’t have an accurate correlate of protection, from what I understand, meaning they don’t actually have a quantitative number for an antibody level that is adequate for protection of severe disease. And some people even naturally infected don’t have as strong of an antibody response, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have protective immunity.