Update - Maybe I'm overreacting?

[City Mouse]

I’m not a church goer at all, but this sounds like typical practice to me. When I let my kids I attene Vacation Bible School, Easter egg hunts, youth group events, etc with friends it wasn’t unusual to get follow up phone calls inviting them back to attend services or other activities. While annoying to me, I just assumed that was how most churches worked to recruit new members.

[catz]

I don't think a church following up with families it hasn't seen in awhile is weird at all.  I would totally expect that.   I do think calling to verify address, send a post card is kind of weird?  But if I got a phone call, I would expect it would be done by paid and background screened staff actually checking in with us and not the random young teen pressured into it under the guise of "we need to send you a random post card, give me your address".  

It's literally the paid job of church staff to keep those community connections intact.  

[Faith-manor]

9 minutes ago, Farrar said:

How is your church that you usually attend or have regularly attended in the past calling to say, "Hey, we miss your kid, we'd love to see them again. Can we send a postcard and is this the right address?" questioning your parenting ability?!? Like, way to overreact, folks.

I get why some people hate cold calls - both getting and giving them. I also get why some people would feel weird about the address part. But... come on. This is just standard outreach for a church to call and say they'd like your presence and for your kids to participate in their programs. Good grief.

Because it is a pandemic. People are making a lot of risk/benefit calculations, and it is exhausting. People are on edge, and often have to drop activities if cases spike, or someone is contact traced through work or school and has to quarantine. It is just a really bad time to engage in attendance taking. 

[Farrar]

Just now, Terabith said:

I think a phone call saying, "Hey, we've missed your kid in children's church," would be annoying to make and annoying to receive, but I don't think it's over the top.  

A phone call saying, "We want to send your child a post card telling them how much we've missed them in children's church and will you confirm your address?" is weird.

 

Meh. It's not that weird. I know I'm out of date in how things are done, but I grew up as a children's minister's kid. I can remember helping with all kinds of outreach and membership outreach as a teen. While none of this is necessarily how I'd do it, there seems to be a real lack of understanding in this thread that many people do respond to personalized messaging - in politics, in church, in volunteering, etc. And that a phone call is not an intrusion into your life. You all have voice mail, folks. You're never obligated to answer the phone. Churches have always called new members, called visitors, sent personalized messages... this is part of how they build community.

Regardless of whether it's a good idea or weird or not, it's not questioning your parenting abilities to ask you or your kid to come back to church. That's such a massive overreaction to say that. And that's not what Allison said, but it was put that way elsewhere in the thread and some people agreed. I find that just beyond absurd. Like, if you walk past an ad for Gymboree, do you assume it's questioning your parenting ability because your toddlers aren't active enough? If you get an email from the place your kid used to take piano suggesting new classes, do you assume it's criticizing your approach to music in your household? This is just the church's way of community outreach. Not everything is a criticism of someone's parenting.

[Farrar]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

Because it is a pandemic. People are making a lot of risk/benefit calculations, and it is exhausting. People are on edge, and often have to drop activities if cases spike, or someone is contact traced through work or school and has to quarantine. It is just a really bad time to engage in attendance taking. 

For all I know, it's a Zoom Sunday school.

I get that people are on edge... but that's why churches are reaching out. It doesn't change my assertion that taking a call from the church saying they miss you and want to see your kids again as being a critique of your parenting is absurd. Not everything is a personal attack. And if you go through life trying to read everything that way, you'll probably be less happy.

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Farrar said:

Meh. It's not that weird. I know I'm out of date in how things are done, but I grew up as a children's minister's kid. I can remember helping with all kinds of outreach and membership outreach as a teen. While none of this is necessarily how I'd do it, there seems to be a real lack of understanding in this thread that many people do respond to personalized messaging - in politics, in church, in volunteering, etc. And that a phone call is not an intrusion into your life. You all have voice mail, folks. You're never obligated to answer the phone. Churches have always called new members, called visitors, sent personalized messages... this is part of how they build community.

Regardless of whether it's a good idea or weird or not, it's not questioning your parenting abilities to ask you or your kid to come back to church. That's such a massive overreaction to say that. And that's not what Allison said, but it was put that way elsewhere in the thread and some people agreed. I find that just beyond absurd. Like, if you walk past an ad for Gymboree, do you assume it's questioning your parenting ability because your toddlers aren't active enough? If you get an email from the place your kid used to take piano suggesting new classes, do you assume it's criticizing your approach to music in your household? This is just the church's way of community outreach. Not everything is a criticism of someone's parenting.

Pushing another adult to force a child that is a volunteer to do something is questioning the OP's parenting. 

It's insulting, distasteful, controlling, and as Christians we're supposed to be above reproach.  Bothering people during a pandemic is way over the top.

[Farrar]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

Pushing another adult to force a child that is a volunteer to do something is questioning the OP's parenting. 

It's insulting, distasteful, controlling, and as Christians we're supposed to be above reproach.  Bothering people during a pandemic is way over the top.

I agree with this, as I said in my initial response. The way the church responded to the OP's saying no wasn't good at all.

[Faith-manor]

11 minutes ago, Farrar said:

For all I know, it's a Zoom Sunday school.

I get that people are on edge... but that's why churches are reaching out. It doesn't change my assertion that taking a call from the church saying they miss you and want to see your kids again as being a critique of your parenting is absurd. Not everything is a personal attack. And if you go through life trying to read everything that way, you'll probably be less happy.

Well I do not think it is a judgment of parenting, though if it is the local church two blocks away, it absolutely is because they are kicking people off their membership rolls and out of the youth group for no physical attendance during the pandemic. But it is very unwanted contact for a lot of people during this time when everyone is trying to figure out what is or is not safe to do. Now that said, it didn't occur to me that this could be a zoom class. I assumed it was a physical, in person activity which does make parents constantly reevaluate at present. My bad for not thinking of that.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Faith-manor

[Masers]

I think it’s perfectly fine for them to have asked, and I think it’s perfectly fine to say no to that ask.

it’s not a big deal to call people—I mean, it doesn’t feel like a breach of privacy when presumably these people willingly shared their contact info with the church—but I think it’s kind of annoying to do so. I mean, surely people who WANT to attend church are doing so, and don’t need a teenager calling them to check in if they’re not. 

that said, I also highly doubt anyone would be combative or rude in response. First of all, 99% of people screen their calls, so they’re likely going to see a number they don’t recognize and let it go to voicemail. Your daughter can then leave a friendly voicemail and people can do what they will with it. And if they DO answer, simply saying, “hi! This is so and so from whatever church, just letting you know children’s programming is up and running, if you’re interested in returning!”, and they’ll say, “okay, thanks for calling,” and that’ll be the end of it. It might be good practice for her. I feel like I had to make tons of nerve-wracking calls as a teenager, including cold calling people when I was volunteering, and it was probably good for me. Nowadays, everyone just texts and nobody has to make or answer uncomfortable phone calls anymore. 😜

of course, in the end, it’s up to you guys and the church should respect your “no.”

[Masers]

Oh, and for the record, my husband was actually irritated that nobody reached out to us from church during the pandemic. 😂 

He probably would have really appreciated a phone call checking in, lol. 

[Bootsie]

29 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I don't think a church following up with families it hasn't seen in awhile is weird at all.  I would totally expect that.   I do think calling to verify address, send a post card is kind of weird?  But if I got a phone call, I would expect it would be done by paid and background screened staff actually checking in with us and not the random young teen pressured into it under the guise of "we need to send you a random post card, give me your address".  

It's literally the paid job of church staff to keep those community connections intact.  

See, I would say the exact opposite.  We have intentionally looked for churches that do not have a large paid staff.  We want a church where the members are interested in and take responsibility for building community.  Having paid staff do the work of the church turns the church more into a business and parishoners who are consumers of the latest, best, flashiest product that they shop around for.  

[cjzimmer1]

As someone who has done the exact same position as your DD and as someone who HATES making phone calls to people I already know and DREAD is probably a better word for people who I don't know, I'd be refusing such a request myself forget being 14.  So no you are absolutely within your rights to dig in your heels on this one.  Not everyone has the same skills as others and requiring all volunteers to do something like this says to me the ministry leaders just don't want to be bothered to do the work themselves so they are foisting it off on others and calling it being a team player.  No team players work together where each contributes to their strength not everyone does the same predetermined task.

[ktgrok]

46 minutes ago, Farrar said:

How is your church that you usually attend or have regularly attended in the past calling to say, "Hey, we miss your kid, we'd love to see them again. Can we send a postcard and is this the right address?" questioning your parenting ability?!? Like, way to overreact, folks.

I get why some people hate cold calls - both getting and giving them. I also get why some people would feel weird about the address part. But... come on. This is just standard outreach for a church to call and say they'd like your presence and for your kids to participate in their programs. Good grief.

I don't know, I figure of course a church wants me back. They all want you to come back. The call and card are just added pressure. Which is REALLY out of place during a pandemic when kids can't be vaccinated. 

[Bootsie]

I am a person who detests making phone calls.  So, personally I would say that this isn't my gift or talent--and I know other people who enjoy it and are very effective at doing so. (I would rather volunteer to clean the bathrooms than make phone calls).

But, I am surprised to hear people refer to this as a "cold call".  I would reserve the term cold call for calling totally random people and inviting them to church--people that haven't shown any interest and haven't specifically given contact information to the church.  I am also not sure why this would be particularly intrusive.  Someone has the right not to answer their phone.  Someone has the right to say, I do not want to share that information, please don't call back.  Showing up at my door at dinner time--I would find that much more intrusive.  

[catz]

8 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

See, I would say the exact opposite.  We have intentionally looked for churches that do not have a large paid staff.  We want a church where the members are interested in and take responsibility for building community.  Having paid staff do the work of the church turns the church more into a business and parishoners who are consumers of the latest, best, flashiest product that they shop around for.  

But in that case, I'd expect someone with a personal relationship to call you directly and ask if everything was ok and that you were missed at church.  It's getting the call from someone I had no relationship with at all I would find weird.  I'd have no issue of one of the families we knew well from church that actually knew us anyway and had all our info checking in with us.

We have about 1000 families at our church.  And I do think there is more dedicated volunteer staff that step up for certain roles and are background checked and vetted.  I do look at those people differently than the average attendee or volunteer. 

Regardless, volunteers shouldn't be guilt tripped into doing something that isn't in their wheelhouse.   

Edited April 24, 2021 by FuzzyCatz

[Faith-manor]

6 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I don't know, I figure of course a church wants me back. They all want you to come back. The call and card are just added pressure. Which is REALLY out of place during a pandemic when kids can't be vaccinated. 

Right! These are irregular times. Our country hasn't dealt with this in the last 50 years. It would be like a church cold calling families during a polio epidemic prior to the polio vaccine and saying, "We noticed you aren't attending." I am pretty sure that is darn off putting. The issue with the calling is A. Requiring volunteers to do it. B. Demanding a teen do it. C. It is a pandemic and it is widely known that folks are keeping their kids close, constantly evaluating risk, living on edge, as in, large numbers of people feeling this way, not individual families. Of course, I am again assuming an in person activity because the teen in question has done the registration/name tag thing for this activity, and name tags would not be a thing for zoom unless they are being mailed to children and worn during the zoom meeting. I think there needs to be a higher degree of sensitivity right now. Not forever. Just for this weirdness and stress in everyone's lives.

[Carol in Cal.]

I suspect that the way this actually evolved was that the leader had this idea, and dealt out all the names to be assigned to the volunteers, and never thought through the fact that someone might say no.  So now he’s boxed himself into a corner because if one says no, and those names need to be added to someone else’s call list, the other person might suddenly realize that they can say no also, or there might be issues of fairness brought up, and then things will snowball out of control.  An ounce of prevention on his part could have prevented this.  He thinks that being a leader means telling people what to do, but it doesn’t.  It means leading by example, getting buy in, thinking plans through thoroughly and with the input of other volunteers, and moving forward with a consensus and an opt out option.

When I read the first part of your OP, I though that maybe he was asking your DD to do this to bring her some good experience, but when he said that you could just do it yourself, I withdrew that thought.  Now what I think is that he assumed that your family would take care of it one way or another because of the prior work and volunteer experience of you and your husband.  But assuming is kind of disrespectful in a role like that.  

When I was a kid we went to church and the kids went to Sunday school every week, without fail.  I’m pretty sure that the only mail I ever got as a child was the occasional ‘We missed you’ postcard from Sunday school when we were out of town.  It’s not that weird to me that someone would send a written invitation to participate, but it IS weird that this starts off with a hokey call to verify mailing address, because that is clearly not just that—it’s the opening for a whole conversation about the program attendance, group dynamics, or anything else the parent wants to bring up.  Putting a 14 yo kid in that position is counterproductive at best.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Carol in Cal.

[SKL]

1) If your DD wants to do this, I would not stop her.

2) If your DD doesn't want to do this, I would not make her.

3) If you don't want to do this but your DD would like to do it with support, she can ask her dad.  🙂

4) Or she could team up with another teen where the other teen makes the calls and your daughter writes the post cards.

I do think it is important to let your children understand your principles, and that includes sometimes not "going along to get along."  Church matters are certainly no exception to this.  Church of all places should be where your principles matter most.

My mom used to get so much flak from church ladies, including many comments that began "the least you could do is ...."  She stood her ground.  She also asked, quite reasonably, why they didn't make these requests of the men / fathers.

[SKL]

Oh and as for how I'd feel to receive such a card ... I don't think it would bother me.  I know there are many people who are in church and wish there were more folks to mix with there.  I'm not ready to return, but that's a personal decision.  There's no harm in asking IMO.

I wonder how I'd respond if my kids begged to go back even with me staying home.  They have been saying they would like to, but when I explain why I'm not ready, they let it go.  But it is sad.

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

Well I do not think it is a judgment of parenting, though if it is the local church two blocks away, it absolutely is because they are kicking people off their membership rolls and out of the youth group for no physical attendance during the pandemic. 

Ouch. I am sure churches are feeling the squeeze and feeling a need to know who is going to eventually come back, but that is one heck of a loyalty test. I am not surprised kinds of controlling churches would do this, but I am sad to hear that it's already taking place. 

1 hour ago, Masers said:

Oh, and for the record, my husband was actually irritated that nobody reached out to us from church during the pandemic. 😂 

He probably would have really appreciated a phone call checking in, lol. 

Our church seems to have taken the approach that they think they aren't taking sides. There are resources available, but only resources, not investment in people--watch a sermon, online chat with a volunteer or staff member, daily devotionals, etc., but they don't seem to think we need things like Zoom Bible studies where we interact. They offered a couple of service opportunities, but it was clear people were not masking and distancing even though the events were advertised as Covid-safe. We have had a single family or two check on us, but the church as a whole advertises following Covid guidelines (they don't do what they advertise--masks are not commonly used), and says if you don't want to mask, use the web service. But the opposite is what is happening, we know it, and they don't reach out. We got a new youth pastor over the summer. Our younger child got a welcome to the youth group e-mail that was super brief when he finished his school grade and was eligible to move up. My husband and son who have already participated for years (my DH has been a youth leader for several years) have been completely unacknowledged the entire time. The new youth pastor didn't even reach out to find out if DH was willing to help out or not, and at the time, they were starting up outdoor services and activities (unfortunately with little to no masking or distancing--if they had been careful, they would've gone to outdoor events while numbers were super low here). 

They are finally sending newsletter e-mails again, but we know that people in church are getting more/different announcements. It's frustrating. 

Knowing they care past cashing our checks would be nice. 

It would be difficult to strike a balance between "Please come back during a pandemic to share your germs" and "We miss you." But trying would be noticed. 

[Murphy101]

My parish advertises in the bulletin when they will be making calls to check on people. They started it last April.  An adult vetted through the church call d and asked hey how are you and your family doing? Do you have prayer requests or unmet needs that your church family can help with? Let’s verify the contact, identified info (names birthdays, schools attending, place of employment) and sacrament information for your household members. 

That was not weird at all and was properly handled to show care for everyone in the parish. I’ve had my covid quibbles with our state/city/parish but this wasn’t one of them. 

[HS Mom in NC]

Postcards/phone calls are intrusive because the recipients have already decided they don't want to attend.   At one point they did want to attend, they attended,  and now they don't, for whatever reason.  They're well aware of the fact that the church still exists, is functioning,  and would like them to continue attending. I assume there's contact info at the website if they have questions that are currently stopping them from attending, which is, of course, highly unlikely.  They've sent a non-verbal signal that says, "No, thank you." and the postcard/phone call is a way to reject/challenge/question their polite no.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[klmama]

3 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Postcards/phone calls are intrusive because the recipients have already decided they don't want to attend.   At one point they did want to attend, they attended,  and now they don't, for whatever reason.  They're well aware of the fact that the church still exists, is functioning,  and would like them to continue attending. I assume there's contact info at the website if they have questions that are currently stopping them from attending, which is, of course, highly unlikely.  They've sent a non-verbal signal that says, "No, thank you." and the postcard/phone call is a way to reject/challenge/question their polite no.

I think it depends on the recipients.  My teen quit attending youth group because the cliques made interacting difficult, but really appreciated it when the leaders sent a note a month or two later saying they missed dc.  And another note the next year, inviting dc to return.  Dc really liked the leaders and appreciated being remembered and reading  their kind comments.  Dc finally tried it again this year and found that the kids attending now are much more kind and inclusive. Most are in school online, and so the various school cliques aren't a thing anymore. It's been a good experience, which dc likely would have missed without the encouraging notes the volunteer leaders sent.  

[kirstenhill]

12 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Postcards/phone calls are intrusive because the recipients have already decided they don't want to attend.   At one point they did want to attend, they attended,  and now they don't, for whatever reason.  They're well aware of the fact that the church still exists, is functioning,  and would like them to continue attending. I assume there's contact info at the website if they have questions that are currently stopping them from attending, which is, of course, highly unlikely.  They've sent a non-verbal signal that says, "No, thank you." and the postcard/phone call is a way to reject/challenge/question their polite no.

I think especially lately it's really hard to know who is interested in attending and who is not.  Our church did not offer any childcare the first few months we were back meeting in person after the state required shutdown, then after that only very limited childcare that was more appropriate for older preschool and up. Now, as vaccination percent is getting fairly high in our community and schools are back in person, we thought the time is right to resume a full offering of nursery and Sunday school.  We have had a few families return who said they stayed away because we weren't offering full children's classes until now.  We've had people return because they are now vaccinated.  Some people visited multiple churches pre-pandemic, stopped attending, and told us they are just now resuming their church search. 

I do some volunteer admin tasks for our small church and I'm still often surprised by how often people tell me they never read the email newsletter or check they website and then they seem mystified why they didn't know about an event or a schedule change. 

I'm not necessarily endorsing phone calls because that seems like a means of communication most people find annoying these days, but postcards or a personal (non-bulk) email seems like a low intrusion way of reminding people you are offering something they might like to return to, and they can always ask be removed from the list for future communication if they've decided to attend elsewhere, no longer attend church, aren't in the area, etc. 

[Goldcrest]

16 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

My parish advertises in the bulletin when they will be making calls to check on people. They started it last April.  An adult vetted through the church call d and asked hey how are you and your family doing? Do you have prayer requests or unmet needs that your church family can help with? Let’s verify the contact, identified info (names birthdays, schools attending, place of employment) and sacrament information for your household members. 

That was not weird at all and was properly handled to show care for everyone in the parish. I’ve had my covid quibbles with our state/city/parish but this wasn’t one of them. 

I am asking out of sincere curiosity- why does a church need to know where children attend school or where a parishioner is employed? Birthdays I can understand for either recognition or assigning classes, but I have never had any church ask about where my children go to school or where I work. Is this common in American churches? 

[HS Mom in NC]

1 hour ago, Holmesschooler said:

I am asking out of sincere curiosity- why does a church need to know where children attend school or where a parishioner is employed? Birthdays I can understand for either recognition or assigning classes, but I have never had any church ask about where my children go to school or where I work. Is this common in American churches? 

No, it's not and  it's creepy that any church would do that. It's a red flag.

[Murphy101]

3 hours ago, Holmesschooler said:

I am asking out of sincere curiosity- why does a church need to know where children attend school or where a parishioner is employed? Birthdays I can understand for either recognition or assigning classes, but I have never had any church ask about where my children go to school or where I work. Is this common in American churches? 

They are calling people who have already chosen to register with the church. So it’s not like asking ransoms off the street. It’s not questions anyone HAS to answer at any point.  A person can say they don’t want to answer any of it if they want.  It’s helpful to know for example in determining funding for our private schools. Maybe a better phrase I should have used is “do your kids attend parish schools?” A follow up might be finding out a parent really wants to but can’t afford it and letting them know about scholarships. Or that a parent is super frustrated that there is little to offer special needs students.  Or that they home school like me and are perfectly happy with it. Since the RE is separate from the Catholic school, that’s tells us info we need to plan first sacraments and religious education. Also attending public school doesn’t mean we write them off. If your kid plays football - maybe our priest or youth group will make a note to try to attend a game or two to show support.   Same goes for the youth group getting together to cheer on a fellow parishioner at recital.  By all means the family can say no or that they are not interested in the parish encouraging their kids. I’d even go so far as to say I would be donuts that at least half of those contacted choose to not respond at all. But it should be noted that Catholics are less than 5% of the pop here.  It’s very easy to feel alone in the faith at schools with over 2k students in each building.

Where my husband works sometimes he can request charitable funding at times and we are on the board of a small literacy charity.  If the parish has a need that overlaps, it’s helpful to have people who they know are okay with being contacted.  And you don’t know that without asking.  And they have never been rude or treated us different when we say no or when we didn’t feel comfortable sharing and just declined. 

These registration verifications started in April partly bc they didn’t want people to feel forgotten during quarantine.  They wanted to verify to know who would need checking in on.  A lot more people started coming to the food bank and were made aware of utility and rent assistance. (Which also means asking for a lot more donations). Some of it was very enlightening.  Our parish priest issued a public apology for not acting faster and more diligently wrt to covid policies bc he really didn’t take it as serious as he should have and really didn’t realize how many parishioners would be affected.  Whatever my quibbles - nothing but respect for him doing that.

ETA: ack. I confused this post with the church sermon thread. So this part should be moved to that other one.  Sorry. 
 

Again.  On the original topic.  I don’t think the problem is a sermon or homily service.  I think the problem is most people let their barista know more about them than their church community.  At some point people have to own that the building of a community for them to be a part of requires making an effort to be known by that community even if only at a deeply shallow statistical level.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Murphy101

[Goldcrest]

@Murphy101- thank you for the explanation. 

[alisoncooks]

t

Edited July 27, 2022 by alisoncooks

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, alisoncooks said:

UPDATE:

It went well. 

Thanks for the update! I’m so glad to hear it went well. I hate it when I’m dreading having to talk to someone, so I can imagine how relieved you were when it was over!

PS. Sorry about the weird little partial quote, but I know you didn’t want us to quote your OP, so I wanted to be as vague as possible, just in case the “no quoting rule” still stands!

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Catwoman