When ok to sing in choir again

[TexasProud]

Our church is pretty much back to normal. The numbers in our area are LOW.  When asked to raise their hands half the people in our congregation raised their hands that they had had Covid in early January.  Many have gotten the shots. So, in May, when I am 2 weeks passed my second shot, can I go back and sing? If not, when??? As I looked in the soprano section, there were a couple of new people I didn't know. However, all the others either had Covid or have gotten the shot ( or both). I am a youngster in my choir at 53. Most are over 65.  There are approximately 40 in the choir.   Our church has had no one die from Covid and only one hospitalized that I know of. 

[Farrar]

The fact that no one has died at your church is irrelevant to the risks. It's like saying "I haven't rolled a 6 yet, so I probably won't roll one next time."

That said, as people get vaccinated and the numbers stay low, it's definitely becoming a lower risk and when someone is vaccinated, I understand being willing to go back. At some point, life has to resume as we vaccinate. What precautions is the choir taking? Open windows? Increased ventilation? Masking? Distancing?

[TexasProud]

6 minutes ago, Farrar said:

What precautions is the choir taking? Open windows? Increased ventilation? Masking? Distancing?

We practice in a giant sanctuary.  Sort of social distancing. no masks.  Because the choir is made up of those mainly over 65, most have  either had it or gotten their shots or both. The director has his shots.  They have been singing since Octoberish with no issues.  Though numbers were 20ish  people with much more spacing. There are 60 of us in choir when we are at full strength.  Just not sure when to go back.  

[kokotg]

We've decided to let our vaccinated 17 year old go back to youth wind symphony when they start back up in a couple of weeks. He was playing with them in the fall when they were doing rehearsals outside, but he stopped when they moved inside over the winter. They're doing distancing and bell covers and "masks" but they're masks with slits in them for them to play through, so that part seems pretty performative. Based on what we know about vaccines so far it seems like the risk to him is very low and the risk to others from him is also very low. I still think indoor rehearsals with wind instruments are a bad idea overall right now, but that part's not my call to make. It was a tough decision to have him stop going in the winter because it's so important to him (although I really don't see how we could have made a different decision (and he was very much in agreement with us, even though he was sad about it)), and when to go back is yet another tough decision. I think going back 2 weeks post vaccine would be a reasonable decision....honestly, for me it would probably depend on how important choir was to me personally and/or how important I was to the choir. I have a younger kid who also plays a wind instrument, but it's not nearly as big a part of his life as it is for my older kid; I'd probably make a different decision for/with him than my older son. 

[TexasProud]

3 minutes ago, kokotg said:

n....honestly, for me it would probably depend on how important choir was to me personally and/or how important I was to the choir. I have a younger kid who also plays a wind instrument, but it's not nearly as big a part of his life as it is for my older kid; I'd probably make a different decision for/with him than my older son. 

Very important. Plus, I have stayed out to protect the elderly, which if they are all up there anyway....  Who am I protecting, especially when I am 2 weeks past the 2nd dose?  It is funny. But, at first it was pretty much the oldest members of the choir who returned first. It is those of us 40's and 50's who are turning out to be  the last to return. 

[Karen A]

I would return if I were fully vaccinated, especially if other mitigation measures are in place like distancing and ventilation. If I was being extra cautious, I would wait until  most/all of the other members were vaxxed as well. (Here many of the 65+ STILL are waiting for 2nd vaccine, and my life--with job, kids in school FT, husband (yet unvaxxed due to availability and teaching college)--make me more risky than if everyone around me was fairly isolated still.)

[ktgrok]

So, in your personal situation, you should be safe - but keep an eye on the news for variants spiking, issues with new variants that escape vaccines, etc. As of now, that's not the case. 

That said, the people in the choir who are relying on immunity from previous infection are in danger and should be made aware that previous infection does NOT provide good protection against some of the new variants. I know with P1, which is now in Canada at least - USA isn't doing enough genome testing to know where it is here - 25-60% of people previously infected with Covid were able to be reinfected with the new strain. So I hate that they are relying on previous infection and putting themselves and others in the church at risk. 

Again, given what we know, YOU are safe, and also unlikely to spread it, as of right now. But that could change so just keep an eye on any new developments. They, on the other hand, should get vaccinated if they can, before P1 and others hit your area. 

[ktgrok]

And given how important  it is too you, I'd say go now, while we know you are safe, in case we have an issue down the road and it gets shut down again. Enjoy while you can, you know? (my advice might be different if you'd had J&J, but the mRNA ones work well against current variants we know about and seem to prevent you being able to spread it)

Edited April 5, 2021 by ktgrok

[alisoncooks]

I'd feel comfortable with that. I think everyone has been so cautious that it'll be hard to shift back to normal, mentally/emotionally. Given the precautions listed above, that seems reasonable. 

[fairfarmhand]

My answer depends on how easy it is to get the vaccine in your area. In mine, pretty much anyone over age 65 or high risk have had PLENTY of opportunity to get vaccinated. In fact, there are even appointments going empty because it's so available. Starting today, anyone over 16 can get a vaccine. So by the end of this month, middle of next month, pretty much anyone over 16 should have had opportunity to be vaccinated if they choose. Yes, some people are choosing not to. 

At some point, we're all going to have to accept that they are willing to take on the increased risk. (I know lot of people in the over 65 age group that are choosing not to, but I'm not willing to indefinitely stop everything because they think that some sort of microchip is in the vaccine to control them) 

So for my family in our area with lots of vaccine availability by mid to late May, we're planning on pretty much doing business as usual.

My family and I will be getting vaccinated fairly soon, despite the fact that we had covid in late deccember,

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

My answer depends on how easy it is to get the vaccine in your area. In mine, pretty much anyone over age 65 or high risk have had PLENTY of opportunity to get vaccinated. In fact, there are even appointments going empty because it's so available. Starting today, anyone over 16 can get a vaccine. So by the end of this month, middle of next month, pretty much anyone over 16 should have had opportunity to be vaccinated if they choose. Yes, some people are choosing not to. 

At some point, we're all going to have to accept that they are willing to take on the increased risk. (I know lot of people in the over 65 age group that are choosing not to, but I'm not willing to indefinitely stop everything because they think that some sort of microchip is in the vaccine to control them) 

So for my family in our area with lots of vaccine availability by mid to late May, we're planning on pretty much doing business as usual.

My family and I will be getting vaccinated fairly soon, despite the fact that we had covid in late deccember,

Extremely easy to get in my area.  Anyone that wants one, is able to get one. I even let my friends know from big cities if they wanted to come here. So much availablity.

[kristin0713]

I would go back to an important activity fully vaccinated with most others fully vaccinated. So in this situation, yes, definitely. 

[Ali in OR]

In your shoes I would feel ok going back.

In general, choir practice is one of those high-risk, easy-to-spread environments that IMO deserves special precautions. I would personally be fine with a choir director or church leadership requiring vaccines for participation, more from the perspective of trying to keep everyone safe. So 70-year-old Joe who doesn't believe there's a risk, hasn't bothered to get a vaccination, lives life without precautions like masking, etc, can't participate because it's not safe for him and he's a risk to others. But I live in an area where this is an easy stance to have--people support efforts to keep virus numbers down.

[TexasProud]

15 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

In your shoes I would feel ok going back.

In general, choir practice is one of those high-risk, easy-to-spread environments that IMO deserves special precautions. I would personally be fine with a choir director or church leadership requiring vaccines for participation, more from the perspective of trying to keep everyone safe. So 70-year-old Joe who doesn't believe there's a risk, hasn't bothered to get a vaccination, lives life without precautions like masking, etc, can't participate because it's not safe for him and he's a risk to others. But I live in an area where this is an easy stance to have--people support efforts to keep virus numbers down.

Yes, this is what my daughter's choir will be doing.  That would not fly here. Vaccination is personal choice. Already heard grumblings about vaccine passports, and from people who are already vaccinated including my husband. He does not believe you should force people to do that, especially for doing regular business. But that is a side topic. 

[Tanaqui]

Ask if they can open the windows or otherwise improve the ventilation, and keep an eye on case numbers. If they start spiking, take a break BEFORE they get too bad. Remember that nothing, including vaccinations, is 100% and that it's possible some of those saying that they already were sick are mistaken. (It's also possible some of those people are flat-out lying, but I sure hope not.)

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, kand said:

Considering that at least half the people have had Covid, I don’t know if I would consider it as there not having been any issues with them all having been back singing together since October. Entirely possible that some of those cases came from singing in choir.

QFT

Contact tracing in most areas has been poor, and many, many people say they have no idea where they got it. I believe for some, this is legit (they might have a job where they have exposure, etc. or multiple unavoidable appointments close together, etc.), but I think people near me might use this line as a catch-all for "We don't care/track/attempt to figure out where we got it--everyone is going to get it, so we got on with life." 

[easypeasy]

I'd go back in May when you're 2-weeks past if the numbers/variants look similar to today's mostly-good stats in your area.

Mainly because I'm starting to feel like - if we have the vaccinations and they seem like they're mostly working - at SOME POINT we've got to start living life again. I can't help those who chose to not get the vaccination (I realize there are some who can't get the vaccination, but there are ALWAYS those who can't participate in every activity based on various restrictions) and if a vaccine that appears to be working isn't enough to start living life again - then what on earth are we waiting for? What life is there to live if we can't get back to *some* sort of normal when we have a working vaccine? There are always risks in life.

(and I say this as someone who has been SUPER COVID-cautious. Masks everywhere. Social distancing. Limiting what the kids can/can't do even though they're all adults now, lol. But - at this point - I don't know what else to wait for, yk? All reasonable precautions have been taken for over a year and we now have a working vaccine. I'm ready to carefully, and with consideration, get back to *living.*)

[QueenCat]

With masking and social distancing, go for it. Without, no. The CDC has made it clear that these measures are still needed. 

[TexasProud]

5 hours ago, kand said:

 

Considering that at least half the people have had Covid, I don’t know if I would consider it as there not having been any issues with them all having been back singing together since October. Entirely possible that some of those cases came from singing in choir.

Hard to say... could be the 42 tournaments or Sunday School classes that kept meeting in people's homes when the church wasn't having it.  Some of them were/are still working as teachers in elementary school where children don't wear masks.  There is absolutely no way to tell.

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, kand said:

Nope, no way to tell with our almost total lack of proper contact tracing. Choir is such a spreader that it would certainly be suspect, though. 
 

I just saw this study released and it made me think of this thread. Spread of Covid in a church due to chorister singing (unmasked) in a choir loft >15m from everyone he infected. In enclosed spaces, air exchange is key, because aerosols will eventually travel long distance. https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/6/21-0465_article
12 people infected, three of whom were hospitalized, two in intensive care. 

But now many people are vaccinated. Different time.

[TexasProud]

15 minutes ago, kand said:

Right. Like I said, this is probably the best time for you to return. 

Yeah...still waffling. The choir normally takes the summer off, and we will be gone for a niece's graduation in May.  ( Not going to actual graduation, but family celebration. All are vaccinated except the two high school students.) So may wait until late August when it resumes. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by TexasProud

[JennyD]

5 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah...still waffling. The choir normally takes the summer off, and we will be gone for a niece's graduation in May.  ( Not going to actual graduation, but family celebration. All are vaccinated except the two high school students.) So may wait until late August when it resumes. 

That seems very sensible to me.  The vaccines are incredible and all evidence so far points to them being extraordinarily effective.  Still, going to indoor choir practice right now feels like it's really putting your vaccine to the test, you know?  By late August we will know so much more about exactly how well these vaccines work in the real world, and everything points to infection rates overall being dramatically lower than they are now.  

 

[ktgrok]

Also, my understanding is that the vaccine is super protective but that was WITH masking and distancing for the most part. 

[TexasProud]

32 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Also, my understanding is that the vaccine is super protective but that was WITH masking and distancing for the most part. 

See then I see no point in the vaccine.  I want to live a normal life. I got it to have that. I AM TIRED OF NO HUGS AND MASKING. I cannot understand/hear people with masks on. Physical touch is my love language.  ( Ok, yes, I do see some of the point, but really.  I WANT MY LIFE BACK.

[Danae]

11 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

See then I see no point in the vaccine.  I want to live a normal life. I got it to have that. I AM TIRED OF NO HUGS AND MASKING. I cannot understand/hear people with masks on. Physical touch is my love language.  ( Ok, yes, I do see some of the point, but really.  I WANT MY LIFE BACK.

The point of the vaccine is to get the level of virus in the community to containable levels, at which point masking and distancing are unnecessary.  The vaccine is not the end, but it’s a powerful tool to get us to the end.

Choir is the one I’m longing for too.  Our church choir is not meeting yet and we all miss it desperately.  

[TexasProud]

32 minutes ago, Danae said:

The point of the vaccine is to get the level of virus in the community to containable levels, at which point masking and distancing are unnecessary.  The vaccine is not the end, but it’s a powerful tool to get us to the end.

I cannot hold out much longer.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

See then I see no point in the vaccine.  I want to live a normal life. I got it to have that. I AM TIRED OF NO HUGS AND MASKING. I cannot understand/hear people with masks on. Physical touch is my love language.  ( Ok, yes, I do see some of the point, but really.  I WANT MY LIFE BACK.

I'm not saying the vaccine is not protective without those things, but we don't know exactly how much less if any. The goal is that everyone is vaccinated, or most, and then we don't have to worry about masks and such. So for instance, I'm not going to mask around my vaccinated friends and extended family, and if/when we get most of the public vaccinated, and/or numbers very low, we won't need to in public either. 

[Danae]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

I cannot hold out much longer.

I hear you.  Kate McKinnon had a line about it in a Saturday Night Live sketch: sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel just makes it easier to see how awful the tunnel is.  

[Terabith]

I'm really torn.  My youngest will start back at the big high school in the fall.  And she really wants to take choir.  She'll be vaccinated, and I assume (please God) that they mask and social distance in choir.  I have uneasiness, but it is something that's important to her, and I am wondering if I can let her do it.  

[TexasProud]

5 hours ago, Terabith said:

I'm really torn.  My youngest will start back at the big high school in the fall.  And she really wants to take choir.  She'll be vaccinated, and I assume (please God) that they mask and social distance in choir.  I have uneasiness, but it is something that's important to her, and I am wondering if I can let her do it.  

It will depend on the community culture. My daughter is in college and they have sung masked all year. They tried to do a few ZOOM type things, but that didn't work well. They practice outside when the weather is good.  When it is not, they practice inside a church sanctuary, but they are spaced WAY apart in the congregation, not the choir loft.  Once they are all vaccinated, the choir director will explore the possibility of singing without masks.  A nurse with PHD in shoot, can't remember maybe public health, something very applicable, is the one overseeing the university's  policy.

In my community, on the other hand, the choirs do not sing with masks. It will really depend.