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A Dog AND A Cat????


Spy Car
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11 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I'm very glad you mentioned it. I'd like to spare my lungs.

We have a fairly large box and a small cat.

How often does one typically tend to change out the litter for a single cat?

This is a huge area of know-nothingness for me

Bill

My vet said to dump litter, wash litterbox with soap, and refill once a week. Trying to reduce the chance of bacteria growing and inadvertently causing problems like UTI. 

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11 hours ago, KSera said:

Clay isn't as bad to breathe as silica, and most people don't take any precautions, but I don't like to breathe the dust so I thought I should mention.

Is this dangerous for cats? My cat has her litterbox in an enclosed structure (one of those hideaway furniture things so it just looks like a cabinet).

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45 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Dr Elsys is one I’ve never tried. It looks good. I trust you on that @Pawz4me. Otherwise, I’ve never liked any other clay litter. (That is clay, right?) I’ve tried pine, crystal, clay, paper, etc. I’m super picky about dust, smells, etc. 

Yes.

But I think some people tend to forget there's clumping clay litter and the original non-clumping type. And they confuse the types in how they use them. If you try to use clumping litter like non clumping it just doesn't work right.

Clumping clay litter needs to be several inches deep in the box. Most directions will say at least 3-4 inches. So if you've got a decent sized box it takes a LOT of litter to fill it appropriately. If you don't use enough you get wet sludge from urine because it's not deep enough to handle it. It's meant to be used for several weeks (up to a month). You scoop all the poop and urine clumps daily and add back in a little litter to keep it at a good depth.

Original non-clumping clay litter is meant to be dumped at least once a week. Generally you only need a fairly shallow layer. You scoop the poop. It absorbs the urine and you can sort of swish it around a little bit and it works fine as long as you dump/clean once a week.

But too many people try to use just a shallow layer of clumping litter, either because they like the idea of dumping/cleaning weekly (and don't want to go through the absolute ton of clumping litter it takes to do that correctly) or because they confuse the two types and think they really only need a shallow layer of clumping litter. And it doesn't often work satisfactorily.

I used to volunteer for a rescue group that used clumping cat litter--it was donated, all they needed, no limits or questions asked--but they insisted on using it like traditional clay litter and just keeping a shallow layer in the boxes and dumping/cleaning weekly. It drove me absolutely batty because there'd be all sorts of nasty sludgy urine stuck all over the boxes and it took forever to clean them. It was totally ridiculous.

Edited by Pawz4me
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Another point about clumping litter is that the litter can clump in between toes if a cat accidentally steps in fresh urine in the box. This happened to one of my son’s cats. We soaked his paw for awhile and wiped it off. The telltale sign was that he was licking the same paw for awhile trying to get it off.

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2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Also, remember that what people like in a cat litter is often totally different than what cats like. And the cat gets to pick, lol. 

QFT!

I always wanted to at least try World's Best or a crystals litter, but none of our cats would ever agree to it. I'd set up an extra box and leave it for months and they'd refuse to use it. And this isn't exactly something that's wise to take a tough love approach with, you know?

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4 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

QFT!

I always wanted to at least try World's Best or a crystals litter, but none of our cats would ever agree to it. I'd set up an extra box and leave it for months and they'd refuse to use it. And this isn't exactly something that's wise to take a tough love approach with, you know?

I don’t think you’d like the crystals, anyway. Your clay sounds similar to the World’s Best if it’s good and dust free. The difference is world’s best is flushable. If that doesn’t matter to you, it’s not a big deal to skip out on the worlds best, I suppose. 

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3 hours ago, Kanin said:

Is this dangerous for cats? My cat has her litterbox in an enclosed structure (one of those hideaway furniture things so it just looks like a cabinet).

There's a lot on line about the possible risks of the dust to cats, but I haven't heard of it being an issue that vets are seeing in cats. I haven't looked though.

3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Also, remember that what people like in a cat litter is often totally different than what cats like. And the cat gets to pick, lol. 

SO true. And there's hardly anything more important for a cat owner than making sure the cat approves of the chosen litter. We use the crystals because a previous cat would only use crystals and the current one took to them and they work so great for odor we have stuck with it. It's more expensive though. Our cat who liked crystal hated clay litter and refused the box when we tried (though interestingly, she would come in and use our other cat's pine pellets when we were doing that). World's Best was a big fail for our current cat. I couldn't handle the smell and she thought it was something to eat 🤦‍♀️.

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11 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I adore Dr. Elsey's. My favorite litter ever. If you're having issues with sludge on the bottom it's almost certainly because you don't have enough litter in the box. It needs to be several inches deep. Most people tend to not use nearly enough clumping litter. 

Thanks. I think I used it too sparingly. I'll do a deeper fill tomorrow.

I literally have had no idea what I'm doing with cat litter management (aside from getting rid of the poops).

Should I switch to the much less expensive "Ultra" when the Kitty version with attractant runs out?

Bill

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10 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Yes.

But I think some people tend to forget there's clumping clay litter and the original non-clumping type. And they confuse the types in how they use them. If you try to use clumping litter like non clumping it just doesn't work right.

Clumping clay litter needs to be several inches deep in the box. Most directions will say at least 3-4 inches. So if you've got a decent sized box it takes a LOT of litter to fill it appropriately. If you don't use enough you get wet sludge from urine because it's not deep enough to handle it. It's meant to be used for several weeks (up to a month). You scoop all the poop and urine clumps daily and add back in a little litter to keep it at a good depth.

Original non-clumping clay litter is meant to be dumped at least once a week. Generally you only need a fairly shallow layer. You scoop the poop. It absorbs the urine and you can sort of swish it around a little bit and it works fine as long as you dump/clean once a week.

But too many people try to use just a shallow layer of clumping litter, either because they like the idea of dumping/cleaning weekly (and don't want to go through the absolute ton of clumping litter it takes to do that correctly) or because they confuse the two types and think they really only need a shallow layer of clumping litter. And it doesn't often work satisfactorily.

I used to volunteer for a rescue group that used clumping cat litter--it was donated, all they needed, no limits or questions asked--but they insisted on using it like traditional clay litter and just keeping a shallow layer in the boxes and dumping/cleaning weekly. It drove me absolutely batty because there'd be all sorts of nasty sludgy urine stuck all over the boxes and it took forever to clean them. It was totally ridiculous.

So I was clearly using this like traditional litter--without even knowing that--figuring it would all be tossed in a few days or maybe a week (who knows?), and I used too little. Clearly.

The sludge is gross. Seems fine otherwise. User error on my part.

Thanks again!

Bill

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9 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Desmond wants to know if you've started working on this yet?

No.

I am very relieved in the past couple days that Desmond is using his hindquarters much more than when he first arrived (5 days ago). He had a broken femur and one of those external contraptions to hold it all together. Some underdevelopment and atrophy have resulted. He had not been out of the cast and contraption for very long.

However is getting more active and able. I'm more and more hopeful that with time, movement, and good nutrition that he will get all this physicality back. Looking up.

But not sure what will be appropriate for him yet. Going to play it by ear and see what his needs are.

I'd love to make a climbing area if he's up to it. We will see.

Bill

 

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11 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Also, remember that what people like in a cat litter is often totally different than what cats like. And the cat gets to pick, lol. 

😂 You speak the truth! I’ve had cats my whole life, and I always say that cats show their anger through urine. Funny, not funny, but totally true. 😆 

8 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

QFT!

I always wanted to at least try World's Best or a crystals litter, but none of our cats would ever agree to it. I'd set up an extra box and leave it for months and they'd refuse to use it. And this isn't exactly something that's wise to take a tough love approach with, you know?

This is no tough love issue, for sure. I recently set up the Tidy Cats Breeze system for our FIVE cats, hoping for a less tracking litter than the we use. Not one taker. And it wasn’t a cheap experiment. We use Arm & Hammer Clump & Seal, and I’m sick of the tracked litter.

But, alas, my benevolent rulers have spoken. 

Edited by Alte Veste Academy
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6 minutes ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

😂 You speak the truth! I’ve had cats my whole life, and I always say that cats show their anger through urine. Funny, not funny, but totally true. 😆 

This is no tough love issue, for sure. I recently set up the Tidy Cats Breeze system for our FIVE cats, hoping for a cheaper/easier litter than the  Not one taker. And it wasn’t a cheap experiment. We use Arm & Hammer Clump & Seal, and I’m sick of the tracked litter.

But, alas, my benevolent rulers have spoken. 

FYI the Slide is like the clump and seal only better. I was a clump and seal fan for sure, until I tried their slide product. 

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And sludge should never be a thing you have to put up with. It could be user error, like you said, or it could just be the litter itself. There is no sludge with the best litters, if it’s kept deep. (Not saying Dr. Elsey’s does this, just saying in general). I don’t have trouble with that with Worlds Best, either. Even if if it gets a little thin, it’s not hard at all to scoop out. It just sort of slides loose and scoops up. It’s like an egg sticking to a pan vs an egg that slides off easily. 

The cats that I sit for when friends are out of town have litter that I have to literally chisel and use lots of force to get it out. It’s dusty and perfumed. That’s the choice they make because they have lots of cats and want to keep costs down. 

If you decide you aren’t happy with one litter, IMO you can always try another by gradually mixing the two. It hasn’t been my experience that my cats have refused certain litters, though I guess some do. IME, once they know where the box is, that’s where they go. I’ve switched, making gradual transitions, many times and then back again to something else, finally settling on the one we like best. 

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Here’s what I do…just in case you ever try the worlds best…

I wash/sanitize the box. Dry it thoroughly. Then I pour a 7 lb bag in. (Sometimes I can only find the huge bags, then I just guess and try my best to use the litter evenly in 7 lb increments). I scoop daily and sweep/vacuum litter daily. I mop the bathroom floor often. 7lbs will last an entire month for one average cat. If your cat is larger and has huge urine clumps, maybe less. By the end of the month, it is getting thin. I don’t add more litter until it’s time to change. (You CAN, but I’m just saying how it works for me). I don’t need to. There is no smell or sludge. Nothing sticks. At the end of the month, (or earlier if needed, but it’s usually a month) I clean the box and put in another 7lb bag. Even at the end, there is no smell and the litter is dry and pretty clean, meaning no buildup of tiny clumps of urine. It’s pretty easy this way, it works, and there’s no odor/sludge/dust. 
 

 

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Well, my son just sent a video of his cat. 
 

He has been out of college for almost two years. He has lived in small apartments with very little furniture. He absolutely doesn’t care. You would just have to know him. His friends tease him because he doesn’t have a couch. He takes the camp chairs out of his car when we visit. 
 

So he visited me recently and we decided to go looking for a couch. He had been working hard and was ready to buy a nice one. So he found a beautiful leather one he liked and bought it. Dh took it to him in his truck. I suggested that he buy a nice, thick blanket to put over it and keep the cats nails trimmed. A cloth couch wouldn’t have been better. I’ve seen cloth furniture shredded by cats, too. 
 

But his cat has discovered the UNDERSIDE of the couch. She has discovered that she can lie on her back and dig her claws into the cloth layer on the bottom of the couch. She slides herself all around on her back. 
 

I have no advice for him.  Sigh. Don’t know. He absolutely adores her, though. I can’t help but laugh. The video is pretty funny. 
 

The point is….you just never know what they can find to get into.
 

 

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11 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Well, my son just sent a video of his cat. 
 

He has been out of college for almost two years. He has lived in small apartments with very little furniture. He absolutely doesn’t care. You would just have to know him. His friends tease him because he doesn’t have a couch. He takes the camp chairs out of his car when we visit. 
 

So he visited me recently and we decided to go looking for a couch. He had been working hard and was ready to buy a nice one. So he found a beautiful leather one he liked and bought it. Dh took it to him in his truck. I suggested that he buy a nice, thick blanket to put over it and keep the cats nails trimmed. A cloth couch wouldn’t have been better. I’ve seen cloth furniture shredded by cats, too. 
 

But his cat has discovered the UNDERSIDE of the couch. She has discovered that she can lie on her back and dig her claws into the cloth layer on the bottom of the couch. She slides herself all around on her back. 
 

I have no advice for him.  Sigh. Don’t know. He absolutely adores her, though. I can’t help but laugh. The video is pretty funny. 
 

The point is….you just never know what they can find to get into.
 

 

One of my son’s cats clawed and slid along the underside of sofas, too. We placed large, double-sided sticky sheets of film on the underside and he quickly stopped. The sticky sheets did not damage the material but the sofas were cloth. The sheets are larger than a piece of paper but also comes in smaller rolls. Amazon and pet supply stores carry it.

You could also place the sticky film on pieces of cardboard and then position the cardboard under the sofa.

Another idea is to use blue tape to tape down aluminum foil under the sofa. Some cats don’t like aluminum foil.

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On 10/14/2021 at 10:49 PM, Spy Car said:

Perhaps I can find a place that will sell me a few (frozen, not live) to try out.

So far, knock wood, Desmond is not picky. Quite the opposite. He's eaten everything. Makes my job easier. This weekend I'm going to lay in supplies and will vacuum freeze small portions to make this a bit easier.

I like feeding people and pets, and it makes me happy to see him eating well. He even ate the canned Royal Canin during his first meal at home, but it was his last choice out of his options.

Bill

I have seen keeper at the Raptor rescue near me feed owls frozen mice, so they are definitely a thing.

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4 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

Here’s what I do…just in case you ever try the worlds best…

I wash/sanitize the box. Dry it thoroughly. Then I pour a 7 lb bag in. (Sometimes I can only find the huge bags, then I just guess and try my best to use the litter evenly in 7 lb increments). I scoop daily and sweep/vacuum litter daily. I mop the bathroom floor often. 7lbs will last an entire month for one average cat. If your cat is larger and has huge urine clumps, maybe less. By the end of the month, it is getting thin. I don’t add more litter until it’s time to change. (You CAN, but I’m just saying how it works for me). I don’t need to. There is no smell or sludge. Nothing sticks. At the end of the month, (or earlier if needed, but it’s usually a month) I clean the box and put in another 7lb bag. Even at the end, there is no smell and the litter is dry and pretty clean, meaning no buildup of tiny clumps of urine. It’s pretty easy this way, it works, and there’s no odor/sludge/dust. 
 

 

Thanks. Definitely user error on my part. I (wrongly) figured the whole litter would be tossed in days and used too little.

Thanks to all for setting be straight. I'll rectify today.

Bill

 

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1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

I have seen keeper at the Raptor rescue near me feed owls frozen mice, so they are definitely a thing.

There are animals that will eat a frozen mouse, but I can't imagine a cat being one of them.  We mostly feed our cats dry food (sorry, Bill), but they get fresh mice on the regular because we live in an old house.  Some get consumed, some are partially consumed with bits left on the rug for us to discover, and some just get 'licked'.  But for cats the fun in a mouse is the chase.  Once it's just lying there, it's not so fun, and I can't imagine the reaction to a defrosted dead one...

Cats aren't supposed to like plants at all (unlike dogs) but we had a cat that was obsessed with certain things - specifically peppers, tomatoes, and kiwis.  Any of these left on the counter would be taken and gutted somewhere.  Little seeds everywhere.  The kiwis ended up looking like little furry things with green guts!  They weren't just played with, but eaten, just not entirely.  Once I had some from my mom's in a plastic bag - cat found them, ripped open the bag and had his way with one.  Cats are very individual!  Never heard of another cat having this fetish...  meanwhile, if I was cutting raw chicken, no interest (this is certainly not true of most cats!)

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26 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Cats aren't supposed to like plants at all (unlike dogs) but we had a cat that was obsessed with certain things - specifically peppers, tomatoes, and kiwis.  Any of these left on the counter would be taken and gutted somewhere.  Little seeds everywhere.  The kiwis ended up looking like little furry things with green guts!  They weren't just played with, but eaten, just not entirely.  Once I had some from my mom's in a plastic bag - cat found them, ripped open the bag and had his way with one.  Cats are very individual!  Never heard of another cat having this fetish...  meanwhile, if I was cutting raw chicken, no interest (this is certainly not true of most cats!)

I've had several cats that loved various forms of plant matter.  One would go for asparagus over fish or meat any day.  She loved it!  Same cat also loved doritos.  

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36 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

There are animals that will eat a frozen mouse, but I can't imagine a cat being one of them.  We mostly feed our cats dry food (sorry, Bill), but they get fresh mice on the regular because we live in an old house.  Some get consumed, some are partially consumed with bits left on the rug for us to discover, and some just get 'licked'.  But for cats the fun in a mouse is the chase.  Once it's just lying there, it's not so fun, and I can't imagine the reaction to a defrosted dead one...

Cats aren't supposed to like plants at all (unlike dogs) but we had a cat that was obsessed with certain things - specifically peppers, tomatoes, and kiwis.  Any of these left on the counter would be taken and gutted somewhere.  Little seeds everywhere.  The kiwis ended up looking like little furry things with green guts!  They weren't just played with, but eaten, just not entirely.  Once I had some from my mom's in a plastic bag - cat found them, ripped open the bag and had his way with one.  Cats are very individual!  Never heard of another cat having this fetish...  meanwhile, if I was cutting raw chicken, no interest (this is certainly not true of most cats!)

I've never hoped our house would become infested with live mice before. LOL.

The things people will do for their felines.

Desmond is such a cuddle-bug. My wife is so happy.

And I'm going OK :tongue:

Bill

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14 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I had a cat that loved ketchup.  We came into the kitchen once to find that he'd gotten up on the counter and had licked the entire top of the meatloaf. . .

I cut a few pieces of Tillamook extra-sharp white cheddar (in the black wrapped bricks) that taste like real cheese last night, and Desmond leaped to investigate.

I gave him a little tiny piece.

He likes to lap stuff up, so I'm hydrating a fair share of his meals with hot water before serving. He licks away. So cute.

Bill

Edited by Spy Car
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34 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I've never hoped our house would become infested with live mice before. LOL.

The things people will do for their felines.

Desmond is such a cuddle-bug. My wife is so happy.

And I'm going OK :tongue:

Bill

I keep suggesting to my husband that we should get a few pet mice for Obama and set them free in our house.  Dh says that they would certainly be pregnant and that things would rapidly spiral out of control and that I am NOT ALLOWED.  

But Obama is so proud when he catches a mouse.  (And he's not very talented at it, having both bad vision and not being good at locating sounds either.)

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49 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I keep suggesting to my husband that we should get a few pet mice for Obama and set them free in our house.  Dh says that they would certainly be pregnant and that things would rapidly spiral out of control and that I am NOT ALLOWED.  

But Obama is so proud when he catches a mouse.  (And he's not very talented at it, having both bad vision and not being good at locating sounds either.)

Desmond picked a fly out of midair yesterday and promptly ate it up. I think he has good vision. LOL.

Bill

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1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

There are animals that will eat a frozen mouse, but I can't imagine a cat being one of them.  We mostly feed our cats dry food (sorry, Bill), but they get fresh mice on the regular because we live in an old house.  Some get consumed, some are partially consumed with bits left on the rug for us to discover, and some just get 'licked'.  But for cats the fun in a mouse is the chase.  Once it's just lying there, it's not so fun, and I can't imagine the reaction to a defrosted dead one...

Cats aren't supposed to like plants at all (unlike dogs) but we had a cat that was obsessed with certain things - specifically peppers, tomatoes, and kiwis.  Any of these left on the counter would be taken and gutted somewhere.  Little seeds everywhere.  The kiwis ended up looking like little furry things with green guts!  They weren't just played with, but eaten, just not entirely.  Once I had some from my mom's in a plastic bag - cat found them, ripped open the bag and had his way with one.  Cats are very individual!  Never heard of another cat having this fetish...  meanwhile, if I was cutting raw chicken, no interest (this is certainly not true of most cats!)

One of our kitties loves fresh greens. Every week when I bring home our CSA haul, she runs to the kitchen to see what kind of goodies I brought her. She happily eats spinach (her favorite), chard and kale (her least favorite)— even bok choy. 
 

I grow a lot of peppers which I chop and freeze for winter use. All summer when I’m cutting up bowls of peppers (mostly small shishito), Kitty watches intently and carefully removes pepper tops from the compost bowl. She tears around the house playing with them, and looks at me mournfully when she hides them beyond reach under the fridge. She doesn’t eat them, but they do make a favorite toy! 😻

 

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9 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Great job, Desmond!!!  

Any idea what he and Chester are thinking of each other yet?

Desmond is skeptical of Chester thus far (and with good reason).

Chester has been a champion (all things considered). His whole body was going into the shakes, with the nose a-twitching, the first few days but he's relaxing.

They have been sleeping in near proximity and there is a general acceptance/accommodation on the dog's part. Dexter is also getting a bit more trusting.

I'd love it if they became friends. It's possible, I suppose.

Bill

 

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Thanks for all the updates on Desmond. I'm so glad that you're becoming a cat person. 

That does not mean you have to give up being a dog person; you can be both.

I think it's sweet. 

Desmond has won you over, if you check out the very first posts on this thread😻

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2 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Desmond is skeptical of Chester thus far (and with good reason).

Chester has been a champion (all things considered). His whole body was going into the shakes, with the nose a-twitching, the first few days but he's relaxing.

They have been sleeping in near proximity and there is a general acceptance/accommodation on the dog's part. Dexter is also getting a bit more trusting.

I'd love it if they became friends. It's possible, I suppose.

Bill

 

Who is Dexter?

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2 hours ago, MEmama said:

DH resisted getting a cat for a long time. He’s been completely converted now, though—we joke that without me to rein him in he would become a bonafide crazy cat lady. 🤣 

Congrats on becoming a Chosen Cat Person, @Spy Car

If I become a crazy cat lady, I'm blaming y'all.

Bill

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OK, I have again done another through cleaning of the litter box house (Nature's Miracle brand, are those good?).

Anyway, my miserly use of the litter resulted in more sludge.

Not a fun job.

Now it is all fresh and clean and I went ahead and dumped the entire rest of the box onto the container, so we should now have optimal depth. 

Thanks @Pawz4me and all for the advice. 

Poops are looking optimal. Almost no smell. Small, like the upper two digits on a woman's pinkie finger.

Bill

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

OK, I have again done another through cleaning of the litter box house (Nature's Miracle brand, are those good?).

Anyway, my misley use of the litter resulted in more sludge.

Not a fun job.

Now it is all fresh and clean and I went ahead and dumped the entire rest of the box onto the container, so we should now have optimal depth. 

Thanks @Pawz4me and all for the advice. 

Poops are looking optimal. Almost no smell. Small, like the upper two digits on a woman's pinkie finger.

Bill

 

 

Make sure you scoop out the pee clumps daily when you scoop the poop. 

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2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Make sure you scoop out the pee clumps daily when you scoop the poop. 

Will do. Mrs Spy Car is out procuring a proper pooper scooper as we speak.

I've been improvising all week.

Seems like we get a lot of pee clumps and only wee bits of poop. 

Bill

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