Personal Religious Beliefs vs Greek Myths

[jaysdarlin]

Hello All,

 

I wanted to know how you all balance your own personal religious belief with teaching young children about Greek gods and godesses. Young children are quite impressionable aren't they? Teaching them about the one-ness of God and how he created everything, and then reading them stories about how Persephone controls the seasons, and Arachne's conceitedness resulted in spiders, etc. How do I explain all this to my 5 year old?

 

I'm a bit confused - could anyone explain?

[Ria]

I took a humorous approach to it when my kids were young. I explained that the ancients didn't know about God, and so they tried to explain their world. Then I'd say, "Isn't that funny?" The kids would laugh, and that was that. There was never any confusion at all. If you live your faith, your kids will know where you stand.

 

Ria

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

How about just saying that the Ancient Greeks didn't believe in God and this is how they explained the world around them?

 

It seems simple but maybe it really is.

[Jean in Newcastle]

First - I didn't start myths until my child was 6 - which sounds like I'm splitting hairs but she was able to understand more than she could at 5. I've taught my kids that people around the world (throughout history) worship different gods. And they have stories that go with their worship. I do tell the kids what I believe - that there is one true God whose true history is written down in the Bible. I point out differences between certain myths and the stories and values of the Bible. And I point out shared values and even shared story lines - that you might find in some of the flood myths for example.

[LauraGB]

Read them from an historical perspective. SWB does an excellent job leading into mono-theism in SOTW. Do you use this for history? Or some other similar program?

 

I wouldn't skip them, though. They are far too rich.

[Erica in PA]

Hello All,

 

I wanted to know how you all balance your own personal religious belief with teaching young children about Greek gods and godesses. Young children are quite impressionable aren't they? Teaching them about the one-ness of God and how he created everything, and then reading them stories about how Persephone controls the seasons, and Arachne's conceitedness resulted in spiders, etc. How do I explain all this to my 5 year old?

 

I'm a bit confused - could anyone explain?

 

((Disclaimer: My post is coming from a point of view that does not seek to be inclusive, as far as as all beliefs being equally true and valid. I'm of the belief that what the Bible teaches about how the world came to be is the truth, and anything contrary to that is error, and that it has always been that way since the earliest times.))

 

I think there is something to be said for waiting until your child is firm in his understanding of your family's faith, before teaching a lot about Greek myths. How old that is probably depends on each child. I think that at least one of my three would not have been solid enough in their Christian faith to learn much about Greek myths at age 5. My three studied the Greeks for the first time somewhere around ages 6-8. Once they understood what the Bible teaches about the creation of the world, etc., it was pretty simple to explain about the ancient Greeks, "These people didn't know that this was how God created the world, so these are the stories that they came up with to explain how things are the way they are." It might take a bit of the fun out of learning Greek myths in a way, because the child understands them to be not just fun stories, but the actual beliefs of people whom the Bible would call idolators. My kids still enjoy reading them as interesting stories, though.

 

Erica

[jaysdarlin]

Yes, that's what I say to them... but inside I just shudder thinking how awful it is, how we are reading books that portray gods among men, who can lose their tempers and play tricks on the men, yet fashion man out of mud and breath life into them. It doesnt seem like spiritual reading at all.

 

Am I being a fuddy duddy?

[Plaid Dad]

Here's an article I wrote on this subject. It doesn't directly address teaching the myths to very young children, but it does talk about the role of myths in ancient Greek culture.

 

My dd has been exposed to ancient myths since she was very small. They are just stories to her, little different from fairy tales. She has never confused the stories with our religious beliefs, for the simple reason that we don't pray to those gods. By the same token, she has learned about the religious practices of our non-Christian neighbors and friends (including those who do worship those gods) without becoming confused about what we believe. It's really not any more complicated than that.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The Bible tells stories of people who sacrificed their babies to Molech, who danced around a golden calf, who bowed down to statues of their kings. So learning about other beliefs is not wrong. But I do think there is a lot of wisdom in what Erica said. As your kid's mom and teacher you do need to have some wisdom as to what will increase their understanding of the world, history and how people relate to God and what might be a stumbling block. And if this is too much of a stumbling block for yourself, it is ok for you to choose another way of approaching history. There are history programs that do shy away from teaching these parts of culture to young children. Many of us here feel like having this dialog with our children is beneficial but only you can really decide if it is.

[jaysdarlin]

but the actual beliefs of people whom the Bible would call idolators.

 

Erica - that's the issue I am struggling with - where does one draw the line between shunning idolatry and using stories of idolators for pleasure and learning?

 

I sure for one wouldn't be teaching my children the folk tales of other religious rulers and their gods who they worshiped an asked for help - why is this any different?

 

Please don't get me wrong, I don't wish to offend anyone. I'm very new to this, and read all of the Greek myths in school when I was young - and that was a catholic school!

[jaysdarlin]

Read them from an historical perspective. SWB does an excellent job leading into mono-theism in SOTW. Do you use this for history?

 

Hi Laura - I have bought the SOTW - just started it - havent got very far yet. I'm hoping the creases will eventually just iron themselves out - yes maybe 5yo ds is too young for them, so i should just let the older ones read them alone, rather than during story-time.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

My dd has been exposed to ancient myths since she was very small. They are just stories to her, little different from fairy tales. She has never confused the stories with our religious beliefs, for the simple reason that we don't pray to those gods.

 

... It's really not any more complicated than that.

 

(Please note that the edit above is mine)

 

Actually, this is true. I just simply read the stories to my children and never once have they believed they were true. Once they did ask if the Ancient Greeks believed this but the kids didn't start building shrines or looking for oracles. They were just stories that represented the culture of that age and the kids can use them in context to discuss Greek civilization.

[jaysdarlin]

They were just stories that represented the culture of that age and the kids can use them in context to discuss Greek civilization.

 

So, this is why we need to incorprate Greek Myths into our education, as it is used to understand the Greek Civilisation?

[FO4UR]

I plan on teaching Greek myths to my (will be) 6yo with my (will be 4 and 3yo) listening in. I already have to do plenty of explaining that not everyone in the world believes the God of the Bible to my little dinosaur fanatic. The Greek myths are just another example.

 

I personally think that understanding the role of false gods in a culture is vital to understanding the Bible, esp when the Bible speaks of false gods. We do NOT want to glorify these gods in any way, which is why I think it's important to study ancient Bible history along with ancient Egypt and Greece and Rome. The Bible does a FANTASTIC job of keeping false gods in perspective! ;)

 

btw- I went 'round and 'round in my head over this until I saw how my ds could identify true and false statements from his dinosaur books and I realized that the Greek myths are no different from the theory of evolution in the way they are taught in our home.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Yes, the Greek myths and then the Roman myths are ultimately part of our cultural heritage. Some of the greatest works of classical literature use the myths, god and goddesses to convey meaning. Much of the meaning of art is lost without an understanding of the myths. The images and their meanings have carried through the ages even if the religious beliefs are not as widely practiced. Since you are in London-drop by the British Museum and view the Ancient Greek collections with an eye to mythology, suddenly all those vases turn into not just an incredible piece of art but a pretty spiffy comic book too! Also, think of our simple vocabulary-narcissistic-how much more meaning does that have if you know the story of Narcissus? Or for that matter how the flower came to have that name? There are even a few references in Shakespeare.

 

Those are just a few examples.

 

You can choose to study mythology as literature, world religions, history, or cultural studies. No one is suggesting that your children read it as religious indoctrination or that it should challenge your personal beliefs, merely that it is a window into the past as well as the legacy of Ancient Greece.

 

OH-and go check out Plaid Dad's article, he is probably more eloquent than I.

[Laurie4b]

We made the decision not to read a lot of that stuff when the kids were young. So many of the myths are very dark in addition to the whole gods and goddesses issues. We also didn't read fairy tales to them. Until a babysitter (a dear elderly woman) showed the kids a movie on monsters, none of my kids were afraid of the dark or had nightmares.

[LaxMom]

As Plaid Dad mentioned, we have read the Greek and Roman myths with our children, along with other literature. Along with giving meaning to part of our vocabulary, the myths are the basis for the names and depictions of our constellations.

 

My children also read/ are read stories with talking animals, but they don't spin that into any expectation that our dog will chat with them, nor does practicing yoga make us Sikh or reading about Dia de los Muertos make us Mexican.

 

Know what I mean?

[Daisy]

Warning: Blatant Christian Content.

 

Well, I was in 11th grade before I heard any of the Roman/Greek myths. I learned what was necessary for literary understanding at that point. Didn't seem to hurt my education any as I did quite well in college.

 

Up to this point in our children's development we chosen to avoid mythology.

 

We do plan on reading The Children's Homer & studying Ancients (beyond just Biblical history) next year so that will put them at 2nd and 5th grade level. I think they are ready for it as we will be reading the OT right alongside of it. I will teach what is necessary but don't ever plan to delve deep into mythology. I'm not planning on reading the myths with the same vigor as we would attack the Little House on the Prairie series. They serve to illustrate man's fallen nature in worshiping created things rather than the one true God. They hold no entertainment value for us.

 

We have also discussed the idea of mythology without actually having read the myths. In other words, my DD is aware the the Greeks/Romans were pantheistic, gave their gods human-like characteristics, and created moral stories using this false religious system.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Daisy

[dragons in the flower bed]

So, this is why we need to incorprate Greek Myths into our education, as it is used to understand the Greek Civilisation?

 

 

No. It is necessary to understand our civilization, which (arguably, I admit) had it's start in Greece.

[KarenNC]

So, this is why we need to incorprate Greek Myths into our education, as it is used to understand the Greek Civilisation?

 

For the same reason that we (as non-Christians) need to incorporate the stories of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures in order to understand the European Middle Ages, etc. Cultural literacy. Try to imagine teaching about the history of Western culture without ever mentioning monotheism and specifically Christian monotheism and how that worldview influenced (and continues to influence) events.

 

It is frankly not possible to understand a culture without having at least some understanding about what they valued/value and how they saw/see the world. I think we would all agree that religion plays a big role in that. As to why it is more relevant to us (in general) in Western civilizations to understand Greek sacred stories than Hindu sacred stories, for instance, consider that our culture is founded on Classical culture (Greek and Roman). The shape of our culture and of Christianity itself was heavily influenced by Greek philosophy and Roman governmental structures. This doesn't mean that Hindu sacred stories are not worthy of study, but they are just not as foundational for our society.

 

It may help to realize that your child will be reading these in an environment that overwhelmingly supports your religious beliefs as the norm, both at home and in the broader society. Christianity is pervasive in our culture and considered the default. That means that your child's understanding of your religion as the one that is "right" rather than that of the Greeks is reinforced by almost every message he or she sees, both overtly and subliminally. I promise you that it's a very, very uphill struggle to raise a child as anything *but* at least monotheist (and usually some form of Christian at least in worldview) in American society.;)

 

I had no option but to expose my child to the sacred stories of Christianity---they were everywhere around her from birth. We have also chosen to read the sacred stories of many other cultures to her from a very young age. Children are overall much more capable of distinguishing between "what we do" and "what others do" than one thinks from a much younger age, I have found. Now if you started incorporating things like setting up shrines, making offerings and pouring libations to the Gods on a regular basis, I can see that there would be a concern about confusion, but that seems an unlikely scenario to me.

Edited November 30, 2008 by KarenNC

[KarenNC]

We made the decision not to read a lot of that stuff when the kids were young. So many of the myths are very dark in addition to the whole gods and goddesses issues. We also didn't read fairy tales to them. Until a babysitter (a dear elderly woman) showed the kids a movie on monsters, none of my kids were afraid of the dark or had nightmares.

 

I'm curious---did you also similarly limit your readings of Christian sacred stories to those that did not involve problematic themes? Does your church do so as well in Sunday school or celebrations of sacred days? If so, which ones would you consider suitable for a young child?

 

Personally, I'm not sure how much darker one can get than the Crucifixion, containing as it does betrayal, multiple instances of torture, murder, humiliation, abandonment, etc. Even something that is viewed as innocuous Noah's Ark (it's used widely as a decorative theme for nurseries and children's toys) is basically a story of genocide and destruction on an unimaginable scale. I honestly don't see that the themes are that much different.

[LaxMom]

For the same reason that we (as non-Christians) need to incorporate the stories of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures in order to understand the European Middle Ages, etc. Cultural literacy...

 

Well said, Karen. Your comments reminded me (also non-Christian) of a reading side trip we made during first grade, after reading the story of the Sumerian king who was found as an infant, floating in the river in a basket. That, of course, led to the story of Moses, then to looking for other, similar stories, and talking about how interesting it is that this is a recurring theme throughout ancient history.

Edited December 1, 2008 by MyCrazyHouse
to clarify the post to which I refer

[KarenNC]

I will teach what is necessary but don't ever plan to delve deep into mythology. I'm not planning on reading the myths with the same vigor as we would attack the Little House on the Prairie series.

 

I can see that to an extent, especially at a young age. In SOTW 1, we would listen to the chapter on something like Joseph or Moses, but those were not chapters I usually did any activities on--I was going primarily for general exposure at that age. A deeper understanding of Christianity and the theological conflicts within it is becoming more relevant as my daughter gets older, however (we are in SOTW 3 now). She needs it so that she can understand the reasons behind all the wars between the Catholics and Protestants and how those differences have persisted into modern conflicts, as well as how they shaped the political geography. There may come a point that a greater understanding of Greek and Roman religion may be helpful in understanding the Greek philosophical underpinnings of Western culture and Christian thought over the millenia.

[mcconnellboys]

I've always explained that many peoples in the ancient world did not know the One God and tried to explain everything about their world through stories that evolved over time into complex mythologies. We talk about the elements contained within mythology. We talk about how many creation stories and other explanations mirror very closely origin elements found in the Bible. We talk about how many cultures include stories of a great flood of some kind.

 

I think that teaching Bible history and history of the Jewish peoples tied in with ancient history goes a long way to impress upon children that the Bible is not just a story book, like other books, but a record of God's contact with his chosen people over time.

 

My children have never had any difficulty understanding mythology and folklore as stories, just like Uncle Wiggly stories, just like Nate the Great stories, just like any other sort of story we read that involves the imagination of an author. What gives mythologies their richness of character is that they were in most cases handed down orally over time and embellished by great, professional storytellers, in some cases for thousands of years before they ever got written for the first time.

[gardening momma]

I've almost finished reading A Charlotte Mason Companion by Karen Andreola (will probably finish tonight). Chapter 27 is titled "Greek Myth" and does an excellent job explaining from a Christian perspective why we need to study Greek mythology. I wouldn't be able to summarize it very well, and I can't quote the chapter here. I recommend getting it from your library (or inter-library loan, as I did), and reading that chapter, if nothing else.

[Haiku]

"A long time ago, in ancient Greece, people believed this. Our family believes something different."

 

We are not Christian but we do follow a religion. I have honestly not said anything to my kids about the veracity of Greek myths, because they just seem to get it that they are old stories and not An Explanation of the World As It Is.

 

Tara

 

ETA: My kids have been raised from the times they joined this family to know about and enjoy the myths and stories of as many cultures as we can find. We are a multi-ethnic family (formed by international adoption) so to me, the idea of excluding everything outside of what we as a family believe spiritually means not just cutting off my children's culture but also implying that other people's beliefs are something to be afraid of. I'm not afraid of other people's beliefs, and I don't think that my children's beliefs are so fragile that merely hearing about other people's will cause them to abandon theirs. But even if my kids decide to hold beliefs different from mine, that's their right. People often say that there are three things parents can't force their children to do: eat, sleep, and poop. I would add to that, "hold their parents' religious beliefs." I don't think that keeping kids away from other beliefs produces strong or true faith in children. I think it produces uninformed faith.

Edited December 1, 2008 by TaraTheLiberator

[dirty ethel rackham]

Yes, that's what I say to them... but inside I just shudder thinking how awful it is, how we are reading books that portray gods among men, who can lose their tempers and play tricks on the men, yet fashion man out of mud and breath life into them. It doesnt seem like spiritual reading at all.

 

Am I being a fuddy duddy?

 

But that's just it - I don't look at it as spiritual reading at all. It is literature and culture. It is stories and folklore. My children never had a problem with discerning these myths from our religious beliefs.

 

Knowing these stories has helped in so many other areas of study ... science and astronomy - why the constellations were called what they were ... psychology - Oedipus complex ... literature - there's nothing new under the sun - there are so many references to mythology in literature that it helps with understanding. As a side benefit, my kids are invaluable resources when it comes to one of my passions, crossword puzzles!;)

[jaysdarlin]

Here's an article I wrote on this subject.

 

Thanks Plaid Dad, this was just what I was looking for! Extremely well written. I'm so glad to have found you all.

[jaysdarlin]

Knowing these stories has helped in so many other areas of study ... science and astronomy - why the constellations were called what they were ... psychology - Oedipus complex ... literature - there's nothing new under the sun - there are so many references to mythology in literature that it helps with understanding.

 

Yes I agree totally. Thanks for putting it into perspective.

[Mommyof4ks]

I never really though about this issue until a year ago when someone mentioned that I was not to tell stories of mythology to their kids (we were studying some Greek mythology and the book was on my table).

 

Our kids know our beliefs, and they have never been confused by 'other teachings'. My though is that they will hear about it eventually, so it is better that we discuss it at our home in the context of the culture so that they understand why the Greeks/Romans/insert people group here told these stories. We then discuss the difference of those stories and the ones in the Bible when relevant.

 

Don't let fear rule you. Kids are capable of understanding so much more than we give them credit for.

[Carol in Cal.]

DD was pretty well grounded in Bible stories before we started reading her the Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and Norse myths. She had already learned the 10 commandments, and knew that the ancient Israelites were constantly falling into worshipping other gods, so she knew that it could be very tempting and that peer pressure was also a factor.

 

One of the things that we talked about a lot was that the gods sounded much more like people than the One God of the Bible does. They warred with each other and tricked each other and used people like pawns in their own conflicts. This did not lead her to respect them, and it also made them look kind of fake to her.

 

She had two main reactions that I recall to these studies. One was that she started to notice allusions to these stories in children's literature--it starts much sooner than high school level texts, so this was really helpful in enriching those other books. And she developed her own theory about why some cultures had so many gods. She thought that since God has lots of names in the Bible, that the faint recollection of that led later people who had not received or maintained His full revelation to invent multiple gods to echo those many names. I thought that that was a pretty cool theory for a 7 year old.

[nmoira]

I had no option but to expose my child to the sacred stories of Christianity---they were everywhere around her from birth. We have also chosen to read the sacred stories of many other cultures to her from a very young age. Children are overall much more capable of distinguishing between "what we do" and "what others do" than one thinks from a much younger age, I have found. Now if you started incorporating things like setting up shrines, making offerings and pouring libations to the Gods on a regular basis, I can see that there would be a concern about confusion, but that seems an unlikely scenario to me.

Well said. DH and I are atheists. I've managed to do extended homeschool units on myths and stories of Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, Christianity, just to name contemporary religions without my oldest being converted to any of them. I will add the disclaimer that occasionally my children become gods and lay waste to entire civilizations they created earlier in the day, with glee.

[Erica in PA]

Erica - that's the issue I am struggling with - where does one draw the line between shunning idolatry and using stories of idolators for pleasure and learning?

 

I sure for one wouldn't be teaching my children the folk tales of other religious rulers and their gods who they worshiped an asked for help - why is this any different?

 

 

If you wouldn't be teaching your children folk tales of other religious rulers and their gods at this point, then I think you've found your answer... it doesn't make sense to make an exception for the ancient greeks and their gods. It's not any different, imo.

 

Once your children reach an age where they can comprehend the difference between the truth and idolatry, that is when you can begin exposing them to different beliefs, including the beliefs of ancient peoples. As I said in my other post, for my kids that was between 6-8 years old, depending on the child. But we don't dwell on the greek myths and spend lots of time soaking them up. We are reading through D'Aulaires Greek Myths, mostly because there are so many references to greek mythology in our culture that it's beneficial to have some familiarity with them. They are creative stories, and do have some artistic merit, in the sense that these are stories that the ancient Greeks came up with on their own.

 

But the bottom line is, as far as spiritual things go, my kids actually feel sorry for the ancient Greeks, and think it's sad that they didn't know the true God. While they find it interesting to hear the stories, ultimately they know that these people were idolators, and that does give a solemn edge to reading the stories.

[newlifemom]

I will add the disclaimer that occasionally my children become gods and lay waste to entire civilizations they created earlier in the day, with glee.

 

 

:lol:

[KarenNC]

DD was pretty well grounded in Bible stories before we started reading her the Greek, Roman, Egyptian, and Norse myths. She had already learned the 10 commandments, and knew that the ancient Israelites were constantly falling into worshiping other gods, so she knew that it could be very tempting and that peer pressure was also a factor.

 

The understanding that one needs to hold onto one's own beliefs regardless of peer pressure, societal expectations, etc is admittedly a very important lesson and one that my daughter deals with daily (as do I). The situations described in this thread as being dangerous, however, are vastly different than those faced by Israelites in the Hebrew Scriptures.

 

The ancient Israelites are described as involved in societies that supported the public corporate worship of Gods not their own, enforced (often very harshly) by the laws of the state, not simply reading stories about them. They were also frequently a minority. These are most definitely not an issue for any Christian in American society.

 

I do have to wonder, however, where in America one currently finds widespread peer pressure to worship the Gods being discussed here (which is something that folks do actually appear to fear will result from exposure to the Greek sacred stories). I'd love to know because I would love to visit such a place ;). I would be interested to know how exactly how many practicing Hellenic worshipers those of you who are concerned about reading the stories to your children know in your community and how many of those were converted by simple exposure to the myths. It certainly doesn't look like a pandemic from my side;). It would be lovely to have an active, IRL Hellenic spiritual community here, but as far as I know, our family is the only one in our entire state.

 

One of the things that we talked about a lot was that the gods sounded much more like people than the One God of the Bible does. They warred with each other and tricked each other and used people like pawns in their own conflicts. This did not lead her to respect them, and it also made them look kind of fake to her.

 

Suffice it to say that if one reads the Bible without the presupposition that everything the God in it does is right and okay and admirable because God does it, these are not absent themes. The sacred stories of any culture are much more complex than the mere surface reading might appear, including both those of Christians and Greeks. To an outsider, the behavior of the Gods in both can look equally outlandish. Honestly I find the arguments for monotheism *much* harder to swallow:).

[KarenNC]

I also find it curious that it seems the Greeks are considered to be somehow uniquely "dangerous" in this context. As I remember, SOTW included sacred stories from many different world cultures, Mediterranean, Indian, African, the Americas, etc, but the only one folks seem to get concerned about are the Greeks. I can't recall anyone ever getting upset about the suggestion that they read about Ananzi the spider or the Gods of the Aztecs.........

[Daisy]

I do have to wonder, however, where in America one currently finds widespread peer pressure to worship the Gods being discussed here (which is something that folks do actually appear to fear will result from exposure to the Greek sacred stories).

 

Actually, I find more often that Christians fear their children would embrace a humanisitic worldview as they see so many others doing. A worldview that to a large extent finds it's roots in classical Greek philosophy.

 

And although you will find many in America who claim to be Christian, I would say that Americans, by and large, do not hold to a Biblical worldview. The vast majority of Christians in this country embrace a humanistic worldview and don't even recognize it. More and more we are finding folks who embrace religious relativism; a whatever works for you kind of mentality that rejects absolute truth.

 

So yes, I want my children knowing the absolute literal truth of Scripture before they are exposed to untruth. Just as I would teach them what a well-running car looks like before teaching them how to recognize and fix a broken one. The age when a child is able to read a story derived from a false worldview, recognize it for what it is, and hold it up in light of Scripture is different for each and should be left up to the discernment of the parent.

 

It is also understandable that if someone does not believe in the absolute truth of Scripture than the Bible is not likely to appear any different than some other religious moral tale.

[Erica in PA]

I do have to wonder, however, where in America one currently finds widespread peer pressure to worship the Gods being discussed here (which is something that folks do actually appear to fear will result from exposure to the Greek sacred stories). I'd love to know because I would love to visit such a place ;). I would be interested to know how exactly how many practicing Hellenic worshipers those of you who are concerned about reading the stories to your children know in your community and how many of those were converted by simple exposure to the myths.

 

 

LOL, I'm assuming that you're being facetious here, and that you really do know that no Christians are afraid that their children are going to begin worship the gods of the ancient Greeks.:tongue_smilie:

 

However, what I will point out to you, is that Christians who believe in the absolute authority of Scripture, and uphold the concept of absolute truth as being defined as what is presented in the Bible, are most certainly a minority group in this country. Most people in the U.S. (or anywhere in the world for that matter), whether they describe themselves as Christian or not, reject these principles to varying degrees. In that sense, Christians who hold to these values actually do have more in common with the Israelites in your example than you seem to realize. We are indeed surrounded by people who not only disagree with us, but also are faced with a mainstream culture that often and freely speaks out against our beliefs.

 

So the reason I am careful about exposing my children to lots of different false religions at a young age is because that lends itself quite directly to the prevailing worldview in our society, which is that everyone's beliefs are equally true, that there is no absolute truth, that we all have our own take on things but no one really knows for sure what is really right or wrong, etc. That is what I am seeking to guard them against, not conversion to Zeus-worship.

 

Erica

[WTMCassandra]

WARNING: From a Christian POV and from someone who is VERY careful what her children read . . .

 

We "did" the myths/gods/goddesses when the children were young, on the first history rotation. We had been really serious about grounding them in our own beliefs, and then I read them Adam and His Kin by Ruth Beechick, before we started. Adam and His Kin was a little over their heads, but she has an intriguing theory/spin on ancient cultures and how their beliefs evolved. (This is a Christian book, BTW.) If your children are too young for this book, you could read it for yourself and summarize the ideas for them.

 

Then, we took a LIGHT TOUCH with the stories. We only read a few, emphasizing that these were stories that people believed long ago. I did stay away from the racier/odder of the stories. We didn't do any memorizing of the Greek names, etc. And we had fun looking for "pieces of the truth" AKA the Ruth Beechick theory where cultures had echoes and snatches of truth according to the Christian worldview.

 

And we had no problem. OTOH, my children also had no trouble distinguishing the true Bible story from VeggieTales, and I've heard people say they decided not to do VeggieTales because it confused their children. I see both issues (Greek myths and VeggieTales) as similar. Now, on our second rotation, we studied more broadly and little more deeply, and this time I had no worries at all about how ready they were. The third rotation, in high school, will probably see more depth of study.

 

Do the myths cause confusion/concern in the children, or do they "take" them as stories? I recommend that you be guided by the Lord and then by your own instinct with your particular children.

[Erica in PA]

 

So yes, I want my children knowing the absolute literal truth of Scripture before they are exposed to untruth. Just as I would teach them what a well-running car looks like before teaching them how to recognize and fix a broken one. The age when a child is able to read a story derived from a false worldview, recognize it for what it is, and hold it up in light of Scripture is different for each and should be left up to the discernment of the parent.

 

 

:iagree:Well said!

[hornblower]

Well said. DH and I are atheists. I've managed to do extended homeschool units on myths and stories of Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, Christianity, just to name contemporary religions without my oldest being converted to any of them. .

 

not disagreeing w/ you but just wanted to pick up on this

 

I'm not sure if I have the words at the moment to explain my thoughts properly but - even though I'm an atheist, I think I kind of see the dilemma.

 

See, if all these are 'just stories' then how do you know that a certain book/teaching is different? I think this is really easy if you're approaching it from an atheist or perhaps just a broadly 'spiritual' perspective because we do treat them all evenly.

 

There's an old Wayne & Shuster joke where they're 2 Romans speaking to each other & one says something to the effect of: Christians! They're just one god away from being atheists!

 

I think there's a real fundamental question there which some kids inherently 'get' & I can see how it would cause a problem.

[Ellie]

Hello All,

 

I wanted to know how you all balance your own personal religious belief with teaching young children about Greek gods and godesses. Young children are quite impressionable aren't they? Teaching them about the one-ness of God and how he created everything, and then reading them stories about how Persephone controls the seasons, and Arachne's conceitedness resulted in spiders, etc. How do I explain all this to my 5 year old?

 

I'm a bit confused - could anyone explain?

I told my dc that the Greek and Roman myths (and those of other people groups, too) were the way that people explained how things came to be; they had not yet heard the Gospel but they knew there was *someone* out there greater than themselves, and they gave it their best shot to explain things. It illustrates what Paul writes about in Romans, don't you think?

 

It also illustrates how manmade gods are completely different from the one true God.

[Haiku]

See, if all these are 'just stories' then how do you know that a certain book/teaching is different?

 

I do not believe in the Christian god and I have no fear of being ****ed for not worshiping him so perhaps I have less urgency about this issue than someone who does, but I do have experience with the "this book/teaching is different" idea. I was raised in a non-religious/actively anti-religious household. For two years when I was a teen I lived with a Methodist pastor and her family and I attended church with them (although I never considered myself a Christian or a believer in god). In my 20s I encountered a religion that I had previously known little about. Over a short amount of time, my worldview was both confirmed and changed. The teachings of this religion were, to me, "the ones."

 

My point is that, unless the religious beliefs that you are teaching children are personally meaningful, they won't stick (my non-religiosity didn't because it meant nothing to me). If they are personally meaningful, nothing will strip them. I'm not talking about relativism. I believe that my religion has it right (but it's not a proselytizing religion, so I don't try to tell other people all about it). But if my kids don't, they don't. I can't force them to believe or protect them into believing, and, honestly, I want my kids to question what they are taught to believe so that they can know for themselves whether or not it is worthy of their life's commitment.

 

I just don't think that exposing kids to others' religious ideas, at any age, is a dangerous thing. I think it is enriching not only to a child's personal religious beliefs but also to their overall experience of life and understanding of their fellow world citizens.

 

Tara

[KarenNC]

LOL, I'm assuming that you're being facetious here, and that you really do know that no Christians are afraid that their children are going to begin worship the gods of the ancient Greeks.:tongue_smilie:

 

There are likely more of us out here who do indeed worship the Gods than you would imagine, but the numbers are quite small overall and we are widely scattered nor do we proselytize, so yes, I was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I was entirely serious, however, when I said that I would love to be somewhere that the possibility of an IRL Hellenic spiritual community existed.

 

I'm more saying that if learning that people believe/believed other Gods exist is as dangerous as it is made out to be by some folks, there'd be a lot fewer monotheists out there. Those who are so concerned about even the mention of the Gods in the context of an ancient culture damaging their children's faith certainly give the appearance of being incredibly uncertain of the strength of their own religion.

 

We are indeed surrounded by people who not only disagree with us, but also are faced with a mainstream culture that often and freely speaks out against our beliefs.

 

Try looking at it from the point of view of someone who is not Christian but actively something as fringe as Hellenic Neopagan and see how different the experience is, how much pressure there is to conform to something different and how much or little societal support there is for it. Then we'll talk.

 

Now I will grant that the experience may be different in different parts of the country. I'm coming from the perspective of a Hellenic Neopagan in an area where there are more churches (primarily Protestant, a very large percentage conservative and Biblical-literalists) than grocery stores, the local paper prints the daily verse and prayer from The Upper Room on the second page, the thing the mayor is most proud of as listed in the official town publication is his (Christian Evangelical) prayer breakfast where government work is conducted and government meetings are still often opened with a prayer in Jesus' name. Add to that that not only is the majority of my extended family extremely conservative Evangelical Christian, I'm a homeschooler in an area where almost all homeschool support groups require signing a statement of very Biblically-literal Protestant Christian faith in order to participate in any activities and there are no options for homeschoolers to access any public school activities. I've had to deal with the religion issue even in groups that are by their own by-laws entirely secular, but where they saw no problem with expecting my 5 year old to take part in very confessionally Christian activities, because "everyone does it".

 

So the reason I am careful about exposing my children to lots of different false religions at a young age is because that lends itself quite directly to the prevailing worldview in our society, which is that everyone's beliefs are equally true, that there is no absolute truth, that we all have our own take on things but no one really knows for sure what is really right or wrong, etc. That is what I am seeking to guard them against, not conversion to Zeus-worship.

 

It all depends on how you approach it. Actually, I try to guard my child against that as well. I don't believe that everyone's beliefs are equally true, just that the vast majority has it totally wrong, as unfortunate as that may be:). I leave it to the Gods to sort out, as we are not a proselytizing religion. I haven't found that exposing my child to various worldviews (including Christian and Jewish in a relatively detailed fashion--ie attending worship services with friends or family) has made her question her own faith or think that every faith is equally true. The issue I most have to face is to keep her understanding that Christians aren't bad or stupid or other negative terms, just different and that they are still worthy of the respect we want to receive. This is due to the negative encounters she has had already with certain Christians. I have actively sought out the few inclusive opportunities where we interact regularly with those of all faiths (and none), including conservative Christian, and where the topic of religion is not taboo for that very reason.

 

That doesn't mean that pretending folks who don't agree with us don't exist and never have will be helpful in my child's spiritual development or education. Now I will agree that there are times for everything, and I have vetted my daughter's participation in activities more strenuously when she was younger. At 8, she is better prepared for the difficulties she faces as a member of a minority religion and to be able to be respectful of others who are different because I have worked to make the introduction gradual and in as supportive an atmosphere as I can. I believe there is a difference in the concern over confusion between "learning about" and "participating as a believer in" something. I do agree that a lot of "participating as a believer in" a different religion would be confusing to a young child.

[Karen in CO]

I also find it curious that it seems the Greeks are considered to be somehow uniquely "dangerous" in this context. As I remember, SOTW included sacred stories from many different world cultures, Mediterranean, Indian, African, the Americas, etc, but the only one folks seem to get concerned about are the Greeks. I can't recall anyone ever getting upset about the suggestion that they read about Ananzi the spider or the Gods of the Aztecs.........

 

 

 

 

Personally, Rabbit Shoots the Sun was the story that bothered me. My kids became fascinated with Native American religions. We still have several field trips to local powwows on our list for next summer.

[Erica in PA]

There are likely more of us out here who do indeed worship the Gods than you would imagine, but the numbers are quite small overall and we are widely scattered nor do we proselytize, so yes, I was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I was entirely serious, however, when I said that I would love to be somewhere that the possibility of an IRL Hellenic spiritual community existed.

 

I'm more saying that if learning that people believe/believed other Gods exist is as dangerous as it is made out to be by some folks, there'd be a lot fewer monotheists out there. Those who are so concerned about even the mention of the Gods in the context of an ancient culture damaging their children's faith certainly give the appearance of being incredibly uncertain of the strength of their own religion.

 

 

 

Try looking at it from the point of view of someone who is not Christian but actively something as fringe as Hellenic Neopagan and see how different the experience is, how much pressure there is to conform to something different and how much or little societal support there is for it. Then we'll talk.

 

Now I will grant that the experience may be different in different parts of the country. I'm coming from the perspective of a Hellenic Neopagan in an area where there are more churches (primarily Protestant, a very large percentage conservative and Biblical-literalists) than grocery stores, the local paper prints the daily verse and prayer from The Upper Room on the second page, the thing the mayor is most proud of as listed in the official town publication is his (Christian Evangelical) prayer breakfast where government work is conducted and government meetings are still often opened with a prayer in Jesus' name. Add to that that not only is the majority of my extended family extremely conservative Evangelical Christian, I'm a homeschooler in an area where almost all homeschool support groups require signing a statement of very Biblically-literal Protestant Christian faith in order to participate in any activities and there are no options for homeschoolers to access any public school activities. I've had to deal with the religion issue even in groups that are by their own by-laws entirely secular, but where they saw no problem with expecting my 5 year old to take part in very confessionally Christian activities, because "everyone does it".

 

 

 

It all depends on how you approach it. Actually, I try to guard my child against that as well. I don't believe that everyone's beliefs are equally true, just that the vast majority has it totally wrong, as unfortunate as that may be:). I leave it to the Gods to sort out, as we are not a proselytizing religion. I haven't found that exposing my child to various worldviews (including Christian and Jewish in a relatively detailed fashion--ie attending worship services with friends or family) has made her question her own faith or think that every faith is equally true. The issue I most have to face is to keep her understanding that Christians aren't bad or stupid or other negative terms, just different and that they are still worthy of the respect we want to receive. This is due to the negative encounters she has had already with certain Christians. I have actively sought out the few inclusive opportunities where we interact regularly with those of all faiths (and none), including conservative Christian, and where the topic of religion is not taboo for that very reason.

 

That doesn't mean that pretending folks who don't agree with us don't exist and never have will be helpful in my child's spiritual development or education. Now I will agree that there are times for everything, and I have vetted my daughter's participation in activities more strenuously when she was younger. At 8, she is better prepared for the difficulties she faces as a member of a minority religion and to be able to be respectful of others who are different because I have worked to make the introduction gradual and in as supportive an atmosphere as I can. I believe there is a difference in the concern over confusion between "learning about" and "participating as a believer in" something. I do agree that a lot of "participating as a believer in" a different religion would be confusing to a young child.

 

Argh, I just typed up a long response and then somehow deleted it, and now I have to get ready to leave for co-op. Oh well, suffice it to say that I think that many of your assumptions about Christians are erroneous, at least as far as all myself and all the Christians I am familiar with go. I don't know anyone who pretends that other religions don't exist. I don't know anyone who is concerned about "the mention of the Gods in the context of an ancient culture" being a threat to their faith. We're surrounded by friends and family of different faiths our entire lives. What was being suggested is that it can be beneficial to wait until your child is firm in his own faith before going into lots of detail about other faiths. As I said, for my children it was between 6-8 years old. If someone thinks I am doing my 5 year old a disservice because I choose not to read lots of material from other religions to him/her at that age, well, then we'll have to agree to disagree. It seems perfectly logical to me that when educating a child about any subject, it's best to begin with the truth and lay a foundation in that before moving on to address all the errors. It's hard for me to understand why someone would disagree with that principle.

[Haiku]

It seems perfectly logical to me that when educating a child about any subject, it's best to begin with the truth and lay a foundation in that before moving on to address all the errors. It's hard for me to understand why someone would disagree with that principle.

 

For me, I disagree with it because every time I read about or hear about this topic it's always in the context of fear: fear about what exposure to someone else's beliefs will do to a child. I just fundamentally disagree with the idea that hearing stories about other religious beliefs will be so confusing to a child.

 

Tara

[KarenNC]

Oh well, suffice it to say that I think that many of your assumptions about Christians are erroneous, at least as far as all myself and all the Christians I am familiar with go.

 

I'd be interested in hearing exactly which statements you consider erroneous and why. My statements are the result of the experiences of my 30+ years as a member of the Christian community in various denominations and extensive study, not random assumptions.

 

I don't know anyone who is concerned about "the mention of the Gods in the context of an ancient culture" being a threat to their faith.

 

Really? Have you read some of the other posts in this thread and similar ones?

 

I don't know anyone who pretends that other religions don't exist.

 

I think if one is going to teach about a civilization and never mention their religious system because it is different than one's own, then yes, they are pretending other religions don't or didn't exist. It would be as odd as my trying to teach about the Middle Ages in Europe or the early American colonies and never mentioning Christianity, even for a 5 year old.

 

We're surrounded by friends and family of different faiths our entire lives.

 

Great! Us too. :) There are a large number of folks in my area who are going to very great lengths so that this is never an issue for them, however. This includes members of my family who would prefer their children become adults without ever encountering anything that is at all different from their religious perspective.

 

It seems perfectly logical to me that when educating a child about any subject, it's best to begin with the truth and lay a foundation in that before moving on to address all the errors. It's hard for me to understand why someone would disagree with that principle.

 

I don't disagree that a gradual introduction is usually preferable (see my posts). I didn't go into detail on slavery with my 5 year old, but then I also didn't choose to start studying the American Civil War at that age. Frankly what surprises me is the number of folks who choose to start a classical round of history with a 5 year old then seem shocked that the religions of these cultures are discussed.

 

What I said was that in my experience and those of other children I have seen, reading the sacred stories of another culture is unlikely to cause faith-damaging confusion even in a young child unless one decides to start incorporating actual practice of those faiths into one's regular routine. We chose to do a round of basic American history with my 5 year old before starting SOTW and she did not become confused because we talked about the Pilgrims praying or the multitudinous references to the Christian God involved in that. We believe that such beliefs are fully as erroneous as you consider the Greeks, but I see no way one can even start teaching about that period of history without incorporating something about the religion of the majority.

[TravelingChris]

Well my children did know about God before they heard the myths since they heard about God from birth and we didn't hit myths until they were older. But before they heard Greek myths, they heard Indian myths and African Myths like Anansi the Spider. I read to them all kinds of children's picture books and none of my three had any problems distinguishing what we believe and stories we read in a book. They also had no problems understanding that movies are not reality. Although I have never heard of anyone adopting ancient Greek religion, I have heard of people adopting their versions of ancient Greek and ancient Celtic religions. I think that the important word in 'their versions' since they adopt strange religions that don't have that much known about them (or at least they don't know much about them) and adapt the practices in their lives.

[KarenNC]

Although I have never heard of anyone adopting ancient Greek religion, I have heard of people adopting their versions of ancient Greek and ancient Celtic religions. I think that the important word in 'their versions' since they adopt strange religions that don't have that much known about them (or at least they don't know much about them) and adapt the practices in their lives.

 

The knowledge bases about the religious practices of the Celts and the Greeks are very, very different. There is quite a bit known to historians, anthropologists, archaeologists, etc about the practice of Greek religion by the ancients at various periods because they wrote things down:). I will especially refer you to Walter Burkert's "Greek Religion" from Harvard University Press as a starting point http://www.amazon.com/Greek-Religion-Walter-Burkert/dp/0674362810. I'll be glad to give a more extensive bibliography if requested.;)

 

There is a continuum of practice among those following a Hellenic religion just as there is among those following Christianity. It ranges from those who try to recreate in as much detail as possible the practices of a particular period and place (since worship practices of a particular God varied greatly even among the various city-states at similar time periods, much less across time periods) to those who indeed don't know or care to know more than they can find in the latest book by Llewellyn. It also ranges from those who delve deep into the scholarly information about the origins of practices or who enjoy lots of ritual to those who simply have a relationship with the Gods in their daily lives and go where that leads.

 

We are in the "revivalist" camp, I suppose, in acknowledging that we live in 21st century in a different social and ecological situation than the ancient Athenians, for example, but we also fall a bit on the scholarly end due to personal inclination:). We certainly make adjustments to our practice to fit modern societal laws and standards. Ever try to keep a hecatomb of oxen in a suburban backyard?;)

 

I suppose one could equally say that churches that use rock bands or organs or Gregorian chant or don't meet in catacombs are practicing "their versions" of Christianity because that is not the way it was done in the first century (with the implication that it is somehow not "real enough" Christianity to be a valid religion). One could also suggest that Christians be required to pass some objective test of knowledge of ancient Christian practices in order to be considered "real" Christians, but I don't think either would be received very well.;) One can be a Christian without having to be a Jesuit, just as one can be a Christian in a very liturgical Eastern Orthodox church, a church that meets in a movie theater and shows film clips as part of the sermon and as a solitary individual. The same range is true for the Hellenic religion.

 

But we stray from the subject of the thread. Anyone with questions about how we practice our Hellenic religion is welcome to PM me.