unbelievable story I am stunned.

[elizabeth]

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27955316/ Wow this is a sad sign of what happens when materialism and consumption run amok. The further tragedy to me is in the response of the people nearby-they kept on shopping. Sick and sad

[hornblower]

Sigh.

Awful story

 

Really makes you wonder. There were riots and tramplings earlier this year in parts of the world because of rising grain & rice prices. People were starving. I can imagine they were panicking in the crowds and desperate people were getting hurt.

 

But this? To get into Wal-mart?

 

This is crazy.

[bettyandbob]

honestly, this is another reason why I don't shop at walmart. I have never encountered this kind of behavior at target or kohl's. I cannot understand why anyone would push and shove to make a purchase. What happens to make people so materialistic that they must hurt another person to get things.

 

I did encounter bad (not this low) behavior at toys r us this morning. I usually avoid toys r us and this morning the shoppers reminded me why with their behavior and the store reminded me why by not having their the items advertised in their black friday circular--it was a real bait and switch. I did find exactly what I wanted at the advertised price at Kohl's.

[Colleen]

I just heard that story on the news here at my parents' home. This whole "Black Friday" phenomenon (just learned that term here on the board the other day) is incomprehensible to me. I can't even begin to identify with people who camp out days ahead of time (and some do, apparently) in order to be first in the stores. I'm mystified by businesses, like some "premium outlets" in this area, that opened today at 12:01 a.m. ~ and customers who respond accordingly. The whole thing boggles my mind. That level of consumerism nauseates me beyond description, as do stories like this that seem to occur each and every year. We've not progressed far from the so-called entertainment in the Colosseum, have we?

[Daisy]

This is sickening. What IS wrong with people?! Makes me want to see just how long I can go without spending money at a store.

 

Why can't we get back to stringing popcorn and cranberries, cracking nuts by the fire, knitting caps, reading stories, and singing carols?

 

Christmas has become about how much junk I can accumulate.

 

A person is dead.

 

Hope that stupid piece of junk was worth it.

 

Sorry, I'm too much of an idealist sometimes.

[Daisy]

We've not progressed far from the so-called entertainment in the Colosseum, have we?

 

Wow, Colleen, you are sooo right.

 

:iagree:

[WTMCassandra]

We've not progressed far from the so-called entertainment in the Colosseum, have we?

 

No, we haven't!

 

I'm an avid Black Friday NON-shopper. I stay HOME and decorate and have a nice day. It's horrible what happened to that employee. I'm more determined than ever to stay out of the fray.

[Quiver0f10]

I can not imagine shoving and trampling a person to death to BUY something. People in other countries have acted like this over food or to escape terrorist and americans are killing each other over junk . Sick.

 

And I don't believe for one minute that only wal-mart sees this kind of behavior, give me a break. If people didn't line up at 2 am the stores wouldn't do it. It is no ones fault but the people themselves.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Quiver0f10

[LauraGB]

We've not progressed far from the so-called entertainment in the Colosseum, have we?

 

:iagree: Exactly.

 

Selfish, disgusting, disturbing beyond belief.

[LisaNY]

This is sickening. What IS wrong with people?! Makes me want to see just how long I can go without spending money at a store.

 

Why can't we get back to stringing popcorn and cranberries, cracking nuts by the fire, knitting caps, reading stories, and singing carols?

 

Christmas has become about how much junk I can accumulate.

 

A person is dead.

 

Hope that stupid piece of junk was worth it.

 

Sorry, I'm too much of an idealist sometimes.

 

Daisy, you took the words right out of my mouth. :iagree:

[Colleen]

Why can't we get back to stringing popcorn and cranberries, cracking nuts by the fire, knitting caps, reading stories, and singing carols?

 

Many of us yearn for a "simpler" time, as you describe. We miss these things. We miss community. And yet, we keep heading in the other direction. A few days ago, the boys and I were looking at a big Lionel train layout ~ a cozy, old-fashioned village. Yes, I know life was never as ideal as it looks in a train layout. But isn't it interesting, how attractive we find that? And don't we just know, that a century from now, the ideal "picture" will still be that same village? No "cozy" train layout will picture the year 2008, complete with strip malls, throngs of shoppers at Wal-Mart, parents pushing strollers while talking on cell phones, and teens texting one another. That will never be the ideal. Ever.

[5kidsforME]

 

Many of us yearn for a "simpler" time, as you describe. We miss these things. We miss community. And yet, we keep heading in the other direction. A few days ago, the boys and I were looking at a big Lionel train layout ~ a cozy, old-fashioned village. Yes, I know life was never as ideal as it looks in a train layout. But isn't it interesting, how attractive we find that? And don't we just know, that a century from now, the ideal "picture" will still be that same village? No "cozy" train layout will picture the year 2008, complete with strip malls, throngs of shoppers at Wal-Mart, parents pushing strollers while talking on cell phones, and teens texting one another. That will never be the ideal. Ever.

 

So very true.

[Laurie4b]

I had the same thought about consumerism, as I'm an avid nonshopper the day after Thanksgiving.

However, my guess is that this was the result of "crowd surge" rather than people literally not caring that they were trampling someone to death to get a bargain. If you are in that crowd and it surges, and you don't move forward, you go down. I think it's kind of like if you are sitting at a stop light and someone hits you from behind, you get pushed into the person in front of you, and they get pushed, etc. The momentum comes from behind. This happens at concerts, sporting events, etc.--any time you have a crowd of people pressing up against narrow entrances. It's very sad for that young man and his family.

[Jennifer]

In the news story linked by the OP it mentions a woman 8 months pregnant that was taken to the hospital after the stampede. According to Fox News, she went into labor and they were unable to save the baby.

Jennifer

[fshinkevich]

Here is another one to keep you in the spirit...

 

http://www.kesq.com/global/story.asp?s=9427148

 

I love online shopping!!!!

[LauraGB]

Don't take this the wrong way, but...

 

Why do people hate us, again?

 

(rolling my eyes in despair and disgust)

Edited November 28, 2008 by LauraGB

[pqr]

I can not imagine shoving and trampling a person to death to BUY something. People in other countries have acted like this over food or to escape terrorist and americans are killing each other over junk . Sick.

 

People in other countries also see deaths in crowds from other things.

 

religion.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4606002.stm

 

http://www.hindu.com/2008/10/02/stories/2008100250020100.htm

 

music concert.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/children-killed-in-concert-crowd-crush-632337.html

 

http://www.crowdsafe.com/thewallmemorials.html

 

beer festival and rain (Warning very unpleasant photographs)

http://www.charonboat.com/cgi-bin/ItemView.cgi?id=79

 

scalping of tickets

 

http://www.crowddynamics.com/Disasters/ghana_2001.htm

 

 

While there is no justification for the anamalistic behavior of some people, this disease is not limited to the US.

 

-pqr

[pqr]

Don't take this the wrong way, but...

 

Why do people hate us, again?

 

(rolling my eyes in despair and disgust)

 

I am afraid I completely miss your point. Are you arguing that people hate us because we have crime? Then they must hate South Africa

 

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=15&art_id=vn20040926065732452C553558

 

 

http://www.biblebasedministries.co.uk/2008/08/28/witchcraft-and-crime-in-south-africa/

 

and India

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24681758-25837,00.html

 

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jul2001/ind-j04.shtml

 

and the Middle East

 

well too many sites to list.

 

 

if the argument is that people die in crowds, see the above post.

 

They may hate us but it has nothing to do with Wall Mart or a shooting in Toys R Us.

[Jami]

In the news story linked by the OP it mentions a woman 8 months pregnant that was taken to the hospital after the stampede. According to Fox News, she went into labor and they were unable to save the baby.

Jennifer

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2008/11/28/2008-11-28_worker_dies_at_long_island_walmart_after.html

 

This link says that she did not have a miscarriage.

 

"A 28-year-old pregnant woman was knocked to the floor during the mad rush. She was hospitalized for observation, police said. Early witness accounts that the woman suffered a miscarriage were unfounded, police said."

 

Though being knocked to the floor is horrifying enough!

[PrairieAir]

I heard this story earlier today. I agree that it is horrible that such a thing could happen.

 

However:

 

The pregnant woman someone mentioned above who was taken to the hospital was fine and so was her baby. I think she was taken to the hospital primarily for observation. I don't believe she went into labor. At least this is what I gather from reports I heard and later read. Earlier there were reports that she had lost the baby, but they were checked and found to be incorrect.

 

Someone above said that this is one of the reasons they don't shop at Walmart. The same person mentioned that this type of thing does not occur at Target and Kohls. I find both these statements absurd. It is not the store, but the shoppers. I have seen similar behavior at other stores, particularly Best Buy and Circuit City. I only shop on Black Friday if there is something on my list at an excellent price, so I haven't been to many stores during the right time to see people behave this way. Similar things have happened at rock concerts and soccer games though. No matter where or for what reasons, it's a horrible tragedy.

 

BTW, I'm not saying the level of consumerism isn't disgusting as well. I'm just pointing out that these things happen outside of Black Friday with other motives besides making sure you get one of the limited number of big screen TVs available on sale. It's more a symptom of how self-absorbed some people are than rampant consumerism alone.

[LauraGB]

I am afraid I completely miss your point. Are you arguing that people hate us because we have crime? Then they must hate South Africa

 

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=15&art_id=vn20040926065732452C553558

 

 

http://www.biblebasedministries.co.uk/2008/08/28/witchcraft-and-crime-in-south-africa/

 

and India

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24681758-25837,00.html

 

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jul2001/ind-j04.shtml

 

and the Middle East

 

well too many sites to list.

 

 

if the argument is that people die in crowds, see the above post.

 

They may hate us but it has nothing to do with Wall Mart or a shooting in Toys R Us.

 

Now, see, I was hoping my statement wouldn't be misinterpreted. I just feel that our society as a whole has become somewhat discouraging. I'm disappointed with the level of materialism, self-indulgence and general ignorance. The fact that these things happen on a reknown "shopping" day just makes me feel worse about it. These people don't represent me, nor the whole of us, I presume. I'm in no way supporting crime against crime, just embarassed by the collective Us passed on via the media world wide, possibly.

[Heather in Neverland]

I will join in on the "I am disgusted" bandwagon. My dh works in management at WalMart and there were grown women FIST-FIGHTING over sale items IN FRONT OF THEIR KIDS. Absolutely disgusting. I wouldn't shop on "Black Friday" if it were the ONLY shopping day of the year.

[DB in NJ]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27955316/ Wow this is a sad sign of what happens when materialism and consumption run amok. The further tragedy to me is in the response of the people nearby-they kept on shopping. Sick and sad

 

This story made me so mad this morning when I first heard it -- and every time I see it or hear it, I get mad all over again. I am just downright disgusted by the GREED. A MAN IS DEAD. For what???

 

Disgusting.

 

Not to mention the 8-month pregnant woman who got hurt.... :glare:

[mcconnellboys]

I just saw this on the news. I knew it would happen somewhere today. Setting up limited quantities on technology items that people feel are "must haves" is an invitation to disaster every time. How sad is it that we never have enough? And that we'd indiscriminately kill for a camera, TV, video game, etc.?

[angela in ohio]

When I was a little girl it was grown women punching each other over Cabbage Patch dolls. And men being killed for their tennis shoes. Sadly, this has been happening for a long time.

[beansprouts]

I am disgusted with what the entire holiday season has become. At this point, I would consider not purchasing anything at all, and find some way to restore some true meaning to Christmas.

[Heather in Neverland]

And, of course, there was the shooting at a Toys R Us today that left two people dead. :banghead:

[beansprouts]

I have been struggling over the way we celebrate Christmas for years. Events like this just further convict me that the way we do things are just wrong. I don't want to be a part of it anymore.

[Peek a Boo]

And, of course, there was the shooting at a Toys R Us today that left two people dead. :banghead:

 

yeah but the interesting part is that the two that died were the two that brought the guns into the store in the first place. i think a tie for the Darwin Award is due for that one....

[Julpost]

I am disgusted with what the entire holiday season has become. At this point, I would consider not purchasing anything at all, and find some way to restore some true meaning to Christmas.

 

:iagree:There has been something nagging at me about this Christmas season...this year, I just don't want to think about buying gifts, we need to do something different. I'd love to brainstorm some ideas about rediscovering and appreciating the meaning of Christmas. Anyone else interested?

[Audrey]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27955316/ Wow this is a sad sign of what happens when materialism and consumption run amok. The further tragedy to me is in the response of the people nearby-they kept on shopping. Sick and sad

 

 

I would get up on my anti-capitalist soapbox, but well.... that'd be a little redundant, eh? ;)

[beansprouts]

:iagree:There has been something nagging at me about this Christmas season...this year, I just don't want to think about buying gifts, we need to do something different. I'd love to brainstorm some ideas about rediscovering and appreciating the meaning of Christmas. Anyone else interested?

 

I see a good spin-off thread coming...

[Audrey]

I am disgusted with what the entire holiday season has become. At this point, I would consider not purchasing anything at all, and find some way to restore some true meaning to Christmas.

 

 

:iagree: I think you should! Ponder on what this holiday means to YOU, and don't buy in to others' expectations.

 

Let's break the vicious cycle of consumerist pressure. I'm so in there with you, Beans!

[Peek a Boo]

Now, see, I was hoping my statement wouldn't be misinterpreted. I just feel that our society as a whole has become somewhat discouraging. I'm disappointed with the level of materialism, self-indulgence and general ignorance.

 

 

i wouldn't worry about misinterpretation --this IS a discussion board, not a mind reading board ;) clarification is a GOOD thing!

 

and i don't think our society 'has become' somewhat discouraging: it's always BEEN somewhat discouraging for various reasons.

[Peek a Boo]

:iagree: I think you should! Ponder on what this holiday means to YOU, and don't buy in to others' expectations.

 

Let's break the vicious cycle of consumerist pressure. I'm so in there with you, Beans!

 

 

We started in a small way last year by waiting till the New Year for New gifts :) kind of a win-win: we get twice as much stuff for half the price, and the holiday market loses profits. I'm not too worried about consumerism itself, but I'm all for shaking up the cycle a bit :D

[Stacy in NJ]

and i don't think our society 'has become' somewhat discouraging: it's always BEEN somewhat discouraging for various reasons.

 

Yep. There is no time in American history, or the history of any other country or culture for that matter, when greed and stupidity was nonexistant. These are human qualities that have and always will exist. Should be somewhat disappointed in this behavior, now? Sure. Should we keep it in perspective? yep.

[Chocobean]

:iagree:There has been something nagging at me about this Christmas season...this year, I just don't want to think about buying gifts, we need to do something different. I'd love to brainstorm some ideas about rediscovering and appreciating the meaning of Christmas. Anyone else interested?

 

Look up "food bank" or "soup kitchen" in the news. This is a year of financial disaster for many more than usual, and it hits the least, the last and the lost among us the most. Many people have scaled back their charity giving as they fear and worry about their own future, the food banks are at an all time low.

 

If you want a meaningful Christmas, how about sharing your manger with some needy travellers? Bring meaningful gifts of love, compassion and hope to your King (or Humanity if you prefer) by serving the least among us.

 

If you can't make it down to the local mission, you can send them a cheque. If you can't make it to India or Africa, send a family there a chicken, a goat or a cow. Pack an Operation Christmas Child shoebox with your children. Take them to the local zoo and learn about conservation and responsible stewardship of what we have been freely given.

 

There's gotta be something better to do during the holidays than sneaking downstairs to rip open boxes of electronic gadgets.

[Sweetpeach]

That level of consumerism nauseates me beyond description

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Michelle in MO]

I would get up on my anti-capitalist soapbox, but well.... that'd be a little redundant, eh? ;)

 

my husband said that he always thought something like this would happen.

 

It's not just capitalism, though, but any kind of a mass mentality that causes things like this to happen, and it can happen in any culture or country. I can think of Europe, where people have been trampled at soccer games, which would point to the soccer-mania that is so prevalent over there.

 

But, I would completely agree that this is consumerism run amok. I avoid shopping like the plague the Friday after Thanksgiving, and what happened to this man is awful. The fact that those responsible kept merrily shopping afterwards is sick beyond belief. Some re-prioritizing about Christmas is definitely way overdue, and I would say this is true both of stores and the people who go shopping on that day.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Michelle in MO

[Jenny in Atl]

What I find most interesting is that they were willing to brake down the doors (obviously illegal) yet they pay for the goods. Something in that mindset is very confussed. :confused:

[BabyBre]

People in other countries have acted like this over food or to escape terrorist and americans are killing each other over junk . Sick.

 

It is no ones fault but the people themselves.

 

 

I am embarrassed for this nation. These materialistic hounds make a name for Americans in the eyes of the world. A man is dead and the rest of the world is shaking their heads and laughing at us fat, greedy Americans, killing their own to get flat screen TVs on sale. I felt sick to my stomach when I heard this news.

 

I venture to say there are more Americans that don't participate in this rediculous madness than do. How unfortunate it's the negative behavior that speaks the loudest, as a huge number of us stay home in quiet protest.

 

:rant:

[Gwen in TX]

honestly, this is another reason why I don't shop at walmart. I have never encountered this kind of behavior at target or kohl's. I cannot understand why anyone would push and shove to make a purchase. What happens to make people so materialistic that they must hurt another person to get things.

 

I did encounter bad (not this low) behavior at toys r us this morning. I usually avoid toys r us and this morning the shoppers reminded me why with their behavior and the store reminded me why by not having their the items advertised in their black friday circular--it was a real bait and switch. I did find exactly what I wanted at the advertised price at Kohl's.

 

Here is a link to a story about a shooting at Toys R US.

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jMJP9ep_VABDoexPPDXfIDbnJL6gD94OI4FG0

 

People are afraid - of not having a load of stuff under the tree, that their dc will be deprived it they don't have THE toy of the year, etc. And that fear (or greed perhaps?) overcomes good behavior.

 

I had a pleasant time at Walmart on Friday morning. There were 4 of us around a pallet of TVs. When 5 AM came, we helped each other load the heavy TVs into our separate carts. Even after person # 1 had her TV, she didn't leave to race to the check-out. We all stayed and helped the others. Even so, I was checked out of the Walmart by 5:11.

[Ellie]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27955316/ Wow this is a sad sign of what happens when materialism and consumption run amok. The further tragedy to me is in the response of the people nearby-they kept on shopping. Sick and sad

It isn't "materialism" and "consumption" that are the problems. It is sinful nature.

[Heather in Neverland]

My dh just told me that at the WalMart he works at, yesterday a customer got mad at an employee and spit in his face and punched him in the stomach. Another woman in a dispute over an item, threw it at an employee and hit her in the face. I am just glad my dh works afternoons and didn't have to be a part of it. If they ever asked him to work Black Friday during the day, he would call in sick. People disgust me.

[Peek a Boo]

It's not just capitalism, though, but any kind of a mass mentality that causes things like this to happen, and it can happen in any culture or country. I can think of Europe, where people have been trampled at soccer games, which would point to the soccer-mania that is so prevalent over there. .

 

yup. more perspective.

[mamaof2andtwins]

When I was a little girl it was grown women punching each other over Cabbage Patch dolls. And men being killed for their tennis shoes. Sadly, this has been happening for a long time.

 

It is true. Back about 30 years ago, my aunt was working at a local department store. Two women got in a fight over a sweater, and ended up tearing it right in half. Now, obviously no one died, but the motivation is still the same and hasn't changed.

 

Jennie

[*anj*]

I have been struggling over the way we celebrate Christmas for years. Events like this just further convict me that the way we do things are just wrong. I don't want to be a part of it anymore.

 

:iagree:

[*anj*]

My dh just told me that at the WalMart he works at, yesterday a customer got mad at an employee and spit in his face and punched him in the stomach. Another woman in a dispute over an item, threw it at an employee and hit her in the face.

 

Okay, I'm thinking about renting a tropical island for the month of December. Let's all go there and just eat mangoes and conch.

Anyone? Anyone?