wuhan - coronavirus

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

In wiki also it mentioned it could cause QT interval to be prolonged which I think was also the concern with HCQ?  

 

Famotidine?

 

[Pen]

47 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Interesting discussion on the timing of monoclonal antibody treatment and remdesivir for the president, but probably relevant to anyone whose thinking they’d like to use those options.   More discussion below if you follow the link.

 

Interesting conceptually. 

And maybe the experience and media visibility of treatment in POTUS and other government members cases will lead to changes in what is done and when and how. 

Currently, however, I don’t know how viable an option “timing” or even wanting to use “options” is for a large majority of people. I think (even assuming that the cocktail had FDA approval and was easier to get and affordable, and all that) by the time most people are in circumstances to get treatments like that (in hospital) they are past the very early illness stage.  They may not be hospitalized until the “quite sick” from immune system over response stage, or fairly severe pneumonia stage. That might be different for Australia, maybe you can ask for early Remdesivir etc and get it, but I think a large majority of people in the world are at home for the mild early stage and stay home if it stays mild. 

[Ausmumof3]

17 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Famotidine?

 

Yes.  
 

also I just noticed reading through the Zelenko study thing that the HCQ was 200mg twice daily so actually 400mg per day if I understand right though he may have changed it since.

 

“Only diagnosed COVID-19 patients who met the defined risk stratification requirements of group A, B, or C got a prescription for the following triple therapy for 5 consecutive days in addition to standard supportive care: zinc sulfate (220 mg capsule once daily, containing 50 mg elemental zinc), HCQ (200 mg twice daily), and azithromycin (500mg once daily). No loading dose was used. Patients who did not meet the risk stratification requirements received standard of care to treat common upper respiratory infection. Patients were not treated with HCQ if they had known contraindications, including QT prolongation, retinopathy, or glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD) deficiency. As usual and following best practice patients were informed about possible drug related side effects. Reported events, if any, were documented as required.

 

edited because I just realised I typed ml not mg 😒 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[Pen]

1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yes.  
 

also I just noticed reading through the Zelenko study thing that the HCQ was 200ml twice daily so actually 400ml per day if I understand right though he may have changed it since.

 

That (200mg twice daily) was for use in already  sick People . 

 

If you are commenting on my prior assertion that he was using less than that, 

That dosage you read should not be confused with long term prophylaxis use which is what I was writing about in my posts on this higher up this thread. 

His Prophylaxis dosage for high risk patients if they can get HCQ: 

200mg once per day for 5 days, then once per week-

see screenshot below. 

 

He has changed what he does over time and is experimenting as he goes  - last I heard he was experimenting with nebulizing the HCQ to get it more directly to the respiratory tract and to hugely reduce dosages needed  (reduce, not increase, but with more targeting and bioavailability where presumably needed by most CV19 patients who have it initially primarily in respiratory tract )   He also recently added Ivermectin as an option for already sick patients. His focus is things that are (aside from roadblocks that I have written about 🤮 ad nauseum) doable and affordable for common people of limited means. 

 

1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

“Only diagnosed COVID-19 patients who met the defined risk stratification requirements of group A, B, or C got a prescription for the following triple therapy for 5 consecutive days in addition to standard supportive care: zinc sulfate (220 mg capsule once daily, containing 50 mg elemental zinc), HCQ (200 mg twice daily), and azithromycin (500mg once daily). No loading dose was used. Patients who did not meet the risk stratification requirements received standard of care to treat common upper respiratory infection. Patients were not treated with HCQ if they had known contraindications, including QT prolongation, retinopathy, or glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD) deficiency. As usual and following best practice patients were informed about possible drug related side effects. Reported events, if any, were documented as required.

 

[Ausmumof3]

11 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

That (200mg twice daily) was for use in already  sick People . 

 

If you are commenting on my prior assertion that he was using less than that, 

That dosage you read should not be confused with long term prophylaxis use which is what I was writing about in my posts on this higher up this thread. 

His Prophylaxis dosage for high risk patients if they can get HCQ: 

200mg once per day for 5 days, then once per week-

see screenshot below. 

 

He has changed what he does over time and is experimenting as he goes  - last I heard he was experimenting with nebulizing the HCQ to get it more directly to the respiratory tract and to hugely reduce dosages needed  (reduce, not increase, but with more targeting and bioavailability where presumably needed by most CV19 patients who have it initially primarily in respiratory tract )   He also recently added Ivermectin as an option for already sick patients. His focus is things that are (aside from roadblocks that I have written about 🤮 ad nauseum) doable and affordable for common people of limited means. 

 

 

Oh yes lower dose for prophylaxis.  But does he still use the protocol with higher dosage for sick patients as well?  Or maybe that’s been reduced.  He does still treat sick patients I think via telemedicine.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Oh yes lower dose for prophylaxis.  But does he still use the protocol with higher dosage for sick patients as well?  

Afaik he is experimenting with lower dose nebulized, but would also use 200mg twice per day if he felt that was right, or Ivermectin instead or in addition depending on patient.   I had the impression the low dose nebulized is what his recent  focus was for a possible new paper.

 

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Or maybe that’s been reduced.  He does still treat sick patients I think via telemedicine.

 

Probably, but I am not sure right now since his most recent major surgery. 

[Corraleno]

6 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Can you link to this documented proof?

 

He self-published his data, it has not been published in any peer reviewed journal, and has been widely criticized for lacking a control group. He compared the death rate of his patients to the death rate of other CV19 patients in the community, but there is no demographic data at all for those patients — no info on the ages, ethnicity, preexisting conditions, level and quality of treatment, etc. And given the relatively small sample sizes, differences in any of those parameters could significantly impact death rates. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

He self-published his data, it has not been published in any peer reviewed journal, and has been widely criticized for lacking a control group. He compared the death rate of his patients to the death rate of other CV19 patients in the community, but there is no demographic data at all for those patients — no info on the ages, ethnicity, preexisting conditions, level and quality of treatment, etc. And given the relatively small sample sizes, differences in any of those parameters could significantly impact death rates. 

Ah, yes, just read through it. It's...not helpful. Certainly not "proof". 

[Laura Corin]

BBC News - Covid: Faith groups' singing studied for coronavirus risk https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54390549

[freesia]

34 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

BBC News - Covid: Faith groups' singing studied for coronavirus risk https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54390549

This is great!

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

BBC News - Covid: Faith groups' singing studied for coronavirus risk https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54390549

 

Cool!

And it may apply to more than just faith singing!!!

[Pen]

 

Cv19 higher Risk inheritance from Neanderthals: 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2818-3

 

[Pen]

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/30/germans-embrace-fresh-air-to-ward-off-coronavirus

 

[Corraleno]

29 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Cv19 higher Risk inheritance from Neanderthals: 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2818-3

 

That is fascinating!

[Matryoshka]

58 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Cv19 higher Risk inheritance from Neanderthals: 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2818-3

 

Wait, 50% of South Asians have Neanderthal DNA? I thought that Neanderthal intermixing was mostly a European thing, as I was under the impression (false???) that that was where Neanderthals were dipersed, geographically...

[El...]

8 hours ago, Pen said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/30/germans-embrace-fresh-air-to-ward-off-coronavirus

 

I go to church in Germany, and we nearly froze today because we had all the doors open for ventilation!! I'm being a little dramatic; it's in the low 50s, but I was so cold.  Our sheet music kept blowing around! I'm a pianist.  I'm going to start bringing mittens. At least a mask keeps my nose warm.

[Ausmumof3]

19 minutes ago, elroisees said:

I go to church in Germany, and we nearly froze today because we had all the doors open for ventilation!! I'm being a little dramatic; it's in the low 50s, but I was so cold.  Our sheet music kept blowing around! I'm a pianist.  I'm going to start bringing mittens. At least a mask keeps my nose warm.

Our first church back we had this.  One of the older no nonsense ladies got up and shut everything apparently.  

[Bootsie]

3 hours ago, elroisees said:

I go to church in Germany, and we nearly froze today because we had all the doors open for ventilation!! I'm being a little dramatic; it's in the low 50s, but I was so cold.  Our sheet music kept blowing around! I'm a pianist.  I'm going to start bringing mittens. At least a mask keeps my nose warm.

I wish we would quit building buildings with non-operable windows in the US.  

[Ausmumof3]

9 cases no deaths for vic today.

So many countries seem to be experiencing a second wave now, UK, France, Russia, Germany.  The second waves look far larger in the data (other than Germany) but hopefully that’s a feature or more testing and we don’t see the number of deaths from last time around.

[Pen]

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/10/04/donald-trump-covid-19-what-we-know-steroid-dexamethasone/3616811001/

Dexamethasone added to DJT treatments

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/10/04/donald-trump-covid-19-what-we-know-steroid-dexamethasone/3616811001/

Dexamethasone added to DJT treatments

From what I understand this means he is either in more serious condition than being acknowledged or is being given inappropriate treatment.

[Pen]

DrBeen had a video on Regeneron antibody cocktail, that to me seems like an easier summary than the preliminary study reports.  @Ausmumof3 YouTube can be played at up to 2x speed  (or whatever u can handle) if u want a gist whilst washing dishes or so forth 

 

It sounds promising ... not a lot of experience on it, but was trialed with large % of Hispanic, African American, and high risk patients ... 

 

4 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

From what I understand this means he is either in more serious condition than being acknowledged or is being given inappropriate treatment.

 

 I would guess adding Dexamethasone means at least that he was not doing as well as they would have liked.   possibly substantially more serious— to me in the last video he sounded like he was having breathing difficulties in the occasional gaspy air intake. And his voice sounded weak and he just “looked” quite sick for him. 

 

I don’t know if his treatment is appropriate or not. In addition to your wondering about the Dexamethasone 

I don’t know if anything is known about putting both Remdesivir and Regeneron antibody cocktail together and if that’s good, neutral, or bad to do.   He may be first patient to be given both for all I know. 

 

I thought I recall that  Remdesivir had heart risks which would concern me. 

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

DrBeen had a video on Regeneron antibody cocktail, that to me seems like an easier summary than the preliminary study reports.  @Ausmumof3 YouTube can be played at up to 2x speed  (or whatever u can handle) if u want a gist whilst washing dishes or so forth 

 

It sounds promising ... not a lot of experience on it, but was trialed with large % of Hispanic, African American, and high risk patients ... 

 

 

 I would guess adding Dexamethasone means at least that he was not doing as well as they would have liked.   possibly substantially more serious— to me in the last video he sounded like he was having breathing difficulties in the occasional gaspy air intake. And his voice sounded weak and he just “looked” quite sick for him. 

 

I don’t know if his treatment is appropriate or not. In addition to your wondering about the Dexamethasone 

I don’t know if anything is known about putting both Remdesivir and Regeneron antibody cocktail together and if that’s good, neutral, or bad to do.   He may be first patient to be given both for all I know. 

 

I thought I recall that  Remdesivir had heart risks which would concern me. 

 

 

Yes and if you watch there’s an edited part I think where he was coughing or something.  
 

with respect to dexamethasone I think it’s only appropriate where people are receiving oxygen etc.  I remember dr Marik in the dr Been video basically saying you don’t give steroids early in because you want the immune system to fight but after hypoxia etc when you are in the cytokine storm or whatever it is (I know there’s different ideas now) where the immune system is the problem not the virus you want to give the steroids.  I’m pretty sure there’s guidelines in the full math plus protocol. You also will know a lot more about that than me.  But if he only first tested positive on Thursday and has a mild or moderate case I don’t think he’d be at that point.

I think it’s pretty understandable from a national security viewpoint that if his condition is worse than known they will try to keep that under wraps. 

[RootAnn]

29 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

From what I understand this means he is either in more serious condition than being acknowledged or is being given inappropriate treatment.

When I looked it up after hearing that he was given it, the thing I read said no significant benefit was found if mild/moderate symptoms were all that were being experienced but there were betnefits if the condition was serious. Thus, I agree with the above assessment. Either he's sicker than we're being told or, more likely, the docs are tossing everything at him to make him feel like he's getting top of the line treatment. Or some third option.

[Ausmumof3]

4 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

When I looked it up after hearing that he was given it, the thing I read said no significant benefit was found if mild/moderate symptoms were all that were being experienced but there were betnefits if the condition was serious. Thus, I agree with the above assessment. Either he's sicker than we're being told or, more likely, the docs are tossing everything at him to make him feel like he's getting top of the line treatment. Or some third option.

And also a slight increase in risk I think in patients receiving it too early.  Not massively significant though.

[Ausmumof3]

From the recovery trial doc on dexamethasone

“However, there was no evidence that dexamethasone provided any benefit among patients who were not receiving respiratory support at randomization, and the results were consistent with possible harm in this subgroup. “

also it carries quite a list of side effects including mood swings etc.

[Pen]

15 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yes and if you watch there’s an edited part I think where he was coughing or something.  
 

with respect to dexamethasone I think it’s only appropriate where people are receiving oxygen etc.  I remember dr Marik in the dr Been video basically saying you don’t give steroids early in because you want the immune system to fight but after hypoxia etc when you are in the cytokine storm or whatever it is (I know there’s different ideas now) where the immune system is the problem not the virus you want to give the steroids.  I’m pretty sure there’s guidelines in the full math plus protocol. You also will know a lot more about that than me.  But if he only first tested positive on Thursday and has a mild or moderate case I don’t think he’d be at that point.

I think it’s pretty understandable from a national security viewpoint that if his condition is worse than known they will try to keep that under wraps. 

 

I think it is totally understandable from

National Security and various points of view. 

 

 

A strange thing to me during this is that as a former NYer, my recollection is that DTJ had a reputation as a germaphobe, and it was a criticism / insult of him around the previous election.  It seems like maybe to seem like a tough guy he went overboard in repudiating his germaphobe image. Or something. https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/12/donald-trump-germaphobe/

 

I would think he is getting O2 - or at least I hope so. It seems silly not to get O2 even at a 96 O2 sat if he would be helped by it .  

 

The Marik/MATH protocol had steroid prednesilone (spelling?) for mildly symptomatic patients in hospital on it unless that changed. 

I don’t know if it had Dexamethasone on it at all.

Iirc, The study with Dexamethasone had very sick patients. 

[Ausmumof3]

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I think it is totally understandable from

National Security and various points of view. 

 

 

A strange thing to me during this is that as a former NYer, my recollection is that DTJ had a reputation as a germaphobe, and it was a criticism / insult of him around the previous election.  It seems like maybe to seem like a tough guy he went overboard in repudiating his germaphobe image. Or something. https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/12/donald-trump-germaphobe/

 

I would think he is getting O2 - or at least I hope so. It seems silly not to get O2 even at a 96 O2 sat if he would be helped by it .  

 

The Marik/MATH protocol had steroid prednesilone (spelling?) for mildly symptomatic patients in hospital on it unless that changed. 

I don’t know if it had Dexamethasone on it at all.

Iirc, The study with Dexamethasone had very sick patients. 

I had a quick scan through and although dexamethasone is mentioned once in the MATH plus it’s not in any great detail and only talks about dosage not timing.  Seems like the main focus was on other steroids.  Also one of the side effects is stomach ulcers/acid so may be another reason why the Pepcid was given (not going to try to remember the proper name again!).  

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I think it is totally understandable from

National Security and various points of view. 

 

 

A strange thing to me during this is that as a former NYer, my recollection is that DTJ had a reputation as a germaphobe, and it was a criticism / insult of him around the previous election.  It seems like maybe to seem like a tough guy he went overboard in repudiating his germaphobe image. Or something. https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/12/donald-trump-germaphobe/

 

I would think he is getting O2 - or at least I hope so. It seems silly not to get O2 even at a 96 O2 sat if he would be helped by it .  

 

The Marik/MATH protocol had steroid prednesilone (spelling?) for mildly symptomatic patients in hospital on it unless that changed. 

I don’t know if it had Dexamethasone on it at all.

Iirc, The study with Dexamethasone had very sick patients. 

Here’s a screen shot of the bit I mean

and link to full document in case anyone else wants to read it

https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_public/departments/internal_medicine/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol.pdf

 

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

From what I understand this means he is either in more serious condition than being acknowledged or is being given inappropriate treatment.

Doctors have now admitted that he has been on oxygen at least twice, after sudden dips in O2 sats. When asked just how low they dipped, Coney said it was "below 94%, but not down in the low 80s or anything." Which suggests it was likely in the high 80s. Also, he apparently had a fever of 103 on Friday and had heart palpitations after the Regeneron dose. Doctors said his lung scan showed "the expected findings," but refused to elaborate on what those findings were.

[lewelma]

NZ just removed all restrictions nationwide.  Modelling suggests we are 95% confident that we have reached elimination status again. So no social distancing, no masks, no group size limitations. Stadiums are now open.  Borders, however, continue to be shut. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by lewelma

[Pen]

52 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Here’s a screen shot of the bit I mean

and link to full document in case anyone else wants to read it

https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_public/departments/internal_medicine/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol.pdf

 

 

Remdesivir about 1-3 days into symptoms looks like it fits that chart.  By days it does seem early for a steroid, but maybe it isn’t or isn’t by symptoms.  (Also there was the nebulized budenoside alternative protocol where that was used right away.) 

Years ago I was at a presidential  campaign event and heard the candidate express major exhaustion, and looked droopy to me when not “on” for cameras. 

It is possible that exhaustion could come as a first CV19 symptom and it not be clear if it is sickness or exhaustion from dealing with Presidency during a crisis, plus dealing with personal attacks, plus campaigning.  Though if SCOTUS Barrett nomination was inoculation day, it still isn’t 11 days if I subtracted right this time. 🤔.   Most US Presidents seem to age visibly and significantly during Presidency even in calmer times—I expect it is hard on health, even without a pandemic. 

[Pen]

 

Dr Hanson, a pulmonologist among other specialties, makes educated guesses about DJT lung situation: 

 

( @Ausmumof3The text is in the notes if skimming them preferred over a video. ) 

 

11 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Doctors said his lung scan showed "the expected findings," but refused to elaborate on what those findings were.

 

 

[Pen]

Eric Harrison has developed another prophylaxis protocol based on mostly inexpensive OTC medicines and supplements. 

 

http://www.harrisoncovid19researchgroup.com/our-team/

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Remdesivir about 1-3 days into symptoms looks like it fits that chart.  By days it does seem early for a steroid, but maybe it isn’t or isn’t by symptoms.  (Also there was the nebulized budenoside alternative protocol where that was used right away.) 

Years ago I was at a presidential  campaign event and heard the candidate express major exhaustion, and looked droopy to me when not “on” for cameras. 

It is possible that exhaustion could come as a first CV19 symptom and it not be clear if it is sickness or exhaustion from dealing with Presidency during a crisis, plus dealing with personal attacks, plus campaigning.  Though if SCOTUS Barrett nomination was inoculation day, it still isn’t 11 days if I subtracted right this time. 🤔.   Most US Presidents seem to age visibly and significantly during Presidency even in calmer times—I expect it is hard on health, even without a pandemic. 

Yes our people here are definitely looking tired and we’ve had an easy run.  Actually this is one of my reasons for thinking maybe there should be an upper age limit.  Maybe that’s a bit ageist but my dad is around the same age as Trump and although he’s quite healthy I can’t see him standing up to what they have to.  Also not good for national stability with more likelihood of health issues though modern medicine does make a big difference of course.  Anyway that’s probably for another thread.

and yes remdesivir works best if started early?  You want antivirals early to minimise viral replication and steroids later to reduce immune system overreaction.  As Dr Marik explained it from my memory and that was a couple of months ago now.  

[Ausmumof3]

It’s been a while since I looked at the death rate per million column on worldometer.  At some point Peru has overtaken Belgium and are currently at over 980 per million.  .098 percent.  Edging toward 0.1 percent of the population.  
 

I don’t know how they count deaths or anything I know there’s differences between countries but it seems so high.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8805697/amp/Furious-blame-game-16-000-Covid-cases-missed-Excel-glitch.html?__twitter_impression=true
 

UK are filling in a backlog of 16,000 cases.  According to the Daily Mail it’s because they were using excel and didn’t realise it had got too big.  I’m not sure if that part is accurate because it seems kind of mind boggling that they’d use excel for something like that but either way it’s some kind of IT glitch.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-cdc-airborne-int-idUSKBN26Q2UB?taid=5f7b98ae7eb24e000178eb37&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
 

CDC have updated their advice to include airborne/aerosol spread again.  

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32013-4/fulltext#.X3vM7P_cY8k.twitter
 

Recovery trial unfortunately found no significant benefit to use of lopinavir–ritonavir

No reduction in death rates and no difference in discharge times from hospital.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[Pen]

Transcript: Trump Health Update On Monday

 

3 hours ago — CONLEY: The big first thing that we need to do is that there is no evidence of live virus still present that he could possibly transmit to others.

 

 

———

 

 

This interests me. I do recall seeing things along those lines in some research studies—not only watching how the patient did, but also watching viral shedding.

 

Now I am wondering how reliable this is. 

 

It seems like a lot is riding on Conley’s assurance about that. 

 

[Ausmumof3]

5 minutes ago, Pen said:

Transcript: Trump Health Update On Monday

 

3 hours ago — CONLEY: The big first thing that we need to do is that there is no evidence of live virus still present that he could possibly transmit to others.

 

 

———

 

 

This interests me. I do recall seeing things along those lines in some research studies—not only watching how the patient did, but also watching viral shedding.

 

Now I am wondering how reliable this is. 

 

It seems like a lot is riding on Conley’s assurance about that. 

 

I’m having a hard time walking the line of politics versus general covid info here.  But everything I’ve seen is an extended shedding of dead virus with infectious live viral shedding for at least 8 up to 11 days.  Unless the antibody stuff did some magic or he was infected a long time before admitting it, I don’t see how that could be at all possible.  I sure hope they’re right because he tapped the handrail multiple times on the way out and unmasked in front of the White House and there was a photographer unmasked quite close to him and the guys escorting him to the car were not very well protected with PPE.

[Ausmumof3]

Also I’d note that in spite of my aversion to videos I did watch some of the press conference and the doctor to the left of dr Conley looked somewhat uneasy when they discussed infection protocol in the White House.  Of course that’s very unscientific just a random observation. 

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I’m having a hard time walking the line of politics versus general covid info here.  But everything I’ve seen is an extended shedding of dead virus with infectious live viral shedding for at least 8 up to 11 days.  Unless the antibody stuff did some magic or he was infected a long time before admitting it, I don’t see how that could be at all possible.  I sure hope they’re right because he tapped the handrail multiple times on the way out and unmasked in front of the White House and there was a photographer unmasked quite close to him and the guys escorting him to the car were not very well protected with PPE.

 

There are things like this in literature search:

Use of antiviral drugs to reduce COVID-19 transmission - NCBI

by O Mitjà · Cited by 99 · Related articles

Mar 19, 2020 — Antiviral drugs administered shortly after symptom onset can reduce infectiousness to others by reducing viral shedding in the respiratory ...

[Pen]

9 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

I'll take the doctor's word on it. I don't like this trend of saying, "Listen to the doctors" and then dismissing any doctor who says something one doesn't agree with whatever the prevailing thought is. This happens with scientists, too, and is infuriating.

 

Beyond taking the doctors ‘s word, assuming it to be correct and not just that DJT’s personal case tested as not shedding live virus, if some aspect or combo

in his treatment ended live virus shedding in a short time in a way that might work for more people, that is important IMO.  Especially if it was some part that is relatively inexpensive and attainable like the zinc and D and C ? and Famotidine and other OTC items rather than intravenous antivirals and not yet FDA approved antibody cocktails.

 If more people could shed less virus, or not shed live virus at all sooner that would be good! 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Pen

[Ausmumof3]

4 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Beyond taking the doctors ‘s word, assuming it to be correct and not just that DJT’s personal case tested as not shedding live virus, if some aspect or combo

in his treatment ended live virus shedding in a short time in a way that might work for more people, that is important IMO.  Especially if it was some part that is relatively inexpensive and attainable like the zinc and D and C ? and Famotidine and other OTC items rather than intravenous antivirals and not yet FDA approved antibody cocktails.

 If more people could shed less virus, or not shed live virus at all sooner that would be good! 

 

Monoclonal antibodies won’t be widely available due to costs unfortunately.

heres the CDC current statement on infectiousness.  The best they had was six days which if he genuinely only tested positive on Friday (Thursday here won’t be till Wednesday).  

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/duration-isolation.html

to be honest the thing that makes everything make sense is an earlier infection.  The rose garden event seems to fit with being a place where it likely spread (10 days ago).  That timing also fits with the time when symptoms appeared to be worse and it also fits with when dexamethasone was administered and it also fits with the doctors thinking he has most likely turned the corner now.  The one thing that doesn’t fit is that he was supposed to have a negative test before the debate.  However they were also supposed to mask for the debate as I understand and all took masks off so I guess maybe they also didn’t test.  Or had a rare false negative (though seems unlikely that both Melania and Donald had a false negative).  I know they were supposedly testing daily.  But the press secretary seemed quite happy to confirm the first positive test was Thursday but didn’t say when the last negative test was.  There may have been another statement since then but if there was I missed it.

 

of course it’s all guessing but at this point an earlier infection is the only thing that really makes everything else Trumps doctor is saying make sense.  It also means he most likely is genuinely out of the worst.  Whereas if he’s only four days in he hasn’t hit the 7-8 day point where people typically take a turn for the worst if they’re going to.

[Pen]

10 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Monoclonal antibodies won’t be widely available due to costs unfortunately.

heres the CDC current statement on infectiousness.  The best they had was six days which if he genuinely only tested positive on Friday (Thursday here won’t be till Wednesday).  

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/duration-isolation.html

to be honest the thing that makes everything make sense is an earlier infection.  The rose garden event seems to fit with being a place where it likely spread (10 days ago).  That timing also fits with the time when symptoms appeared to be worse and it also fits with when dexamethasone was administered and it also fits with the doctors thinking he has most likely turned the corner now.  The one thing that doesn’t fit is that he was supposed to have a negative test before the debate.  However they were also supposed to mask for the debate as I understand and all took masks off so I guess maybe they also didn’t test.  Or had a rare false negative (though seems unlikely that both Melania and Donald had a false negative).  I know they were supposedly testing daily.  But the press secretary seemed quite happy to confirm the first positive test was Thursday but didn’t say when the last negative test was.  There may have been another statement since then but if there was I missed it.

 

of course it’s all guessing but at this point an earlier infection is the only thing that really makes everything else Trumps doctor is saying make sense.  It also means he most likely is genuinely out of the worst.  Whereas if he’s only four days in he hasn’t hit the 7-8 day point where people typically take a turn for the worst if they’re going to.

 

He wasn’t tested immediately before debate according to what I read, but was tested at some point almost daily.

It would be perfectly possible for him to have caught it a week ago Saturday and then for it to have been incubating and not to have had a positive test till Thursday.  Putting him at day 10 or so now.  

The chances that he was initially infected on same day as a test first showed positive is tiny, almost zero. There is debate on which day testing tends to show the virus, but no question that there is an incubation period. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

He wasn’t tested immediately before debate according to what I read, but was tested at some point almost daily.

It would be perfectly possible for him to have caught it a week ago Saturday and then for it to have been incubating and not to have had a positive test till Thursday.  Putting him at day 10 or so now.  

The chances that he was initially infected on same day as a test first showed positive is tiny, almost zero. There is debate on which day testing tends to show the virus, but no question that there is an incubation period. 

I read that actually he only had to have had a negative test 72 hours before the debate.  It may be that they had relaxed the daily testing protocol.  
 

I’m fairly confident he didn’t have concerns before the debate or he wouldn’t have knowingly been so close unmasked to the whole family I think.  But it’s possible that he hadn’t had a test in the last 3 days before hand.  Particularly given the less sensitive nature of the rapid tests they were using.  

[TCB]

4 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I read that actually he only had to have had a negative test 72 hours before the debate.  It may be that they had relaxed the daily testing protocol.  
 

I’m fairly confident he didn’t have concerns before the debate or he wouldn’t have knowingly been so close unmasked to the whole family I think.  But it’s possible that he hadn’t had a test in the last 3 days before hand.  Particularly given the less sensitive nature of the rapid tests they were using.  

I thought that the rapid tests were more likely to give a false positive than a false negative, and if the rapid test is positive they recheck.

[Ausmumof3]

11 minutes ago, TCB said:

I thought that the rapid tests were more likely to give a false positive than a false negative, and if the rapid test is positive they recheck.

I’m not sure.  I can’t find anything recent on it.  I thought there were some concerns about accuracy back when they started using them but maybe it was false positives which is less bad than false negatives.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-informs-public-about-possible-accuracy-concerns-abbott-id-now-point
 

there was this but it’s from May . Not sure if there’s something more recent.