Help me think - Lutheran high school or public?

[SKL]

My kids (going into 8th grade) think they want to go to the Lutheran high school connected with their K-8 Lutheran school.  I think the main reasons are (a) they think friends are going there [though some have changed their minds] and (b) the school tends to be hyped up at their K-8 school and at church.  They have had sports tournaments & field trips there, whereas they have had no contact with the public school and know almost nobody who is going there.

They are zoned for a public high school roughly 2 miles away.  The Lutheran high school is 17 miles away.  We could get bus service if they got themselves to their K-8 school which is 5 miles away from home, but I'm not sure how long of a commute that would be, and also it would mean a lot of driving / city bus commutes when they are doing extracurriculars.  Proximity to non-school activities will be mostly better at the public school.  The time factor is likely to be an issue, as one of my kids has a hard time fitting in all her homework/study, sports, and sleep, forget about chores.

The public high school is rated average by our state's standards - used to be "excellent," so I'm not sure what changed.  Neither of my kids is likely to need more academic rigor than they offer there.  Also, they may be better at addressing some of my eldest's learning difficulties.  Their sports program will be better, though I'm not sure my kids will "make the team" since they have never been in serious competition before.  There will be a lot more kids there (about 3x as many as the Lutheran HS), which may be a good or bad thing.  My kids are not used to a big school at all.  Currently their school has only one class per grade.  Their being young in their grade may also be a factor here - fitting in may be a challenge.  My youngest is quite quirky and not super socially adept.  She can also be easily influenced iykwim.

While I can afford the Lutheran school, it would be nice to have that money to put aside for college instead.

I do like the idea of a Christian education.  Teaching values is a challenge in a single-parent home.  It helps to have another authority echoing what I say is important - about morals and about the value of education.  It helps to have a community that generally supports our values.

This fall, they will need to do testing etc. if they are going to the Lutheran school.  So it's time to get serious about this decision.

So ... what are the thought processes you all would go through on this?  What am I forgetting or mis-prioritizing?

[Gobblygook]

We just made a similar decision, opting for the Lutheran high school. 

My DS was public schooled k-3, homeschooled 4-7 and then back in public school for 8th (at his choice.) We are in one of our state’s top districts and in a state that itself is highly ranked for its schools. The academics have been truly mediocre and the social scene not edifying in any way. He initially was adamant about going to our large public high school with his friends, but over time has seen the benefits of the smaller private school.

From his perspective, he will be more likely to play several sports at a varsity level.

From my perspective, he will be part of an amazing Christian community and will have opportunities for serving others. He will get to know his teachers and classmates very well. I’m hoping his teachers will push him academically. He’s a smart kid but not terribly motivated. 

It is surely less convenient and more expensive, but I believe it’s worth it. 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Gobblygook

[Storygirl]

We chose a Christian school that was 25 minutes away from home for DD17. We are choosing public school for our younger three, because two of them have IEPs, and the public school is better suited to meet their needs. I do feel sad that my younger children will not benefit from the Bible classes and Christian teachers (who play a mentoring role for students) at DD17's school. But there are also things that the public school has to offer that the private school does not, so I try to focus on the positives.

It really helped us to visit various high schools to see for ourselves what they had to offer and what the culture was, so I would encourage you to visit. You can just outright ask why the ranking of the public school has gone down. You can also ask to meet with the special education coordinator and show him/her any psych reports you have for you eldest and ask if she would be likely to get/need additional support. If the public school is better able to work with her learning style, I would prioritize that.

Driving that far is a big commitment, and it was draining for us. This year is better (we moved closer to the private school). A long commute does impact daily life negatively, in my opinion, so I would put a strike in the Con column for that, for sure. With that said, it was not a deal breaker for us, and we managed.

It's normal for the girls to want to stay where they feel it is familiar. I have a few ideas that might help. First, in the fall, when school starts again, you can ask the public school if they can shadow there for a partial day, and ask the guidance counselor or office specifically if they can find a really friendly girl to show them around. Secondly, the public school may allow students who live in the district to participate in extracurricular activities, even though they attend private school. I know several girls who do this and are on the public school swim and track teams. If they are able to join an activity at the public school and meet some of the girls who would be their classmates, they may feel more comfortable with the thought of switching.

Having read many of your prior threads, I feel like you have not been completely satisfied with the current school in some aspects, and I think that is also a big reason to see what other options look like.

And, yes, saving for college while also paying private school tuition was a consideration for us. We also could afford the private school tuition, but it needed to be the very best choice for us to commit to it financially. We are moving DD13 from her private dyslexia school to the public school this fall, and some of that was a financial decision. Could we pay the bill? Yes, but it was steep, and when it became clear that she no longer NEEDED to be there, we decided that she should switch to public.

So we are content with our decision to use the public schools, but we did a lot of research to make sure it was the right choice. It wasn't easy. My biggest piece of advice is to visit each of the schools and ask lots of questions. It was surprising to me how clearly I felt about each school after we did that.

[Pen]

I vote for the close public school . 

If the school that’s close is not actively terrible, I’d weigh highly the proximity.  and also lower cost—but even if cost were equal, I’d put a high value on close distance.  

Even if you aren’t available to drive for an activity it’s much easier to get a ride from someone when that close, or for that matter walk if the activity isn’t at a dangerous time or with dangerous roads.

Time left for other things may not be helped if they take bus as busses can be slow (we are around 3 miles from school but bus takes 45minutes).   But still, and this is from single parent perspective, close is significant.  

It’s easier for dc to socialize when closer to more kids and to school. Going to watch sports games is easier. Being in an after school activity is easier.

 

Eta: there’s a core group of kids nearish school, then they get sparser as distance grows.  A group gets together now as Sophomores many weekends comprised of the local kids mainly, with it clearly a lot harder for people who live 9 or miles away to join in, especially if parents are single with no one easily available to drive . Even working together on school projects after school is easier for the closer kids.

And there *are* likely to be people who share values with you.  (Eta not everyone but at least a few,.   Also being in a religious high School doesn’t guarantee not ending up with a group of peers in rebellion and seeking other paths.  Threads like yaelaldritch’s with a son in with group of kids rebelling at a religious school aren’t relating an uncommon phenomenon.  High school age, peers become far more important than adults for awhile IME) 

 I would suggest visiting ASAP, and even possibly making switch in 8th grade so that they would transition in to high school possibly knowing more kids from 8th.   If they are in a more restrictive environment it might also help have a buffer time if they start goofing off under less restrictions. Better to get that out of way and be ready to focus more in 9th.

If they are young, should they join a lower grade? How young are they?

Eta: in retrospect I wish I had moved my Ds into local public school in 7th.

 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Pen

[katilac]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

 They are zoned for a public high school roughly 2 miles away.  The Lutheran high school is 17 miles away.  We could get bus service if they got themselves to their K-8 school which is 5 miles away from home, but I'm not sure how long of a commute that would be, and also it would mean a lot of driving / city bus commutes when they are doing extracurriculars.  Proximity to non-school activities will be mostly better at the public school.  The time factor is likely to be an issue, as one of my kids has a hard time fitting in all her homework/study, sports, and sleep, forget about chores.

You're confusing me a bit here - what does the K-8 public school distance have to do with high school? Or are you considering sending them for 8th also? Oh, wait, I think I figured it out: they could get bus service to the Lutheran school if they first get themselves to the K-8 school? Sounds like a pain. I would expect a 15 mile commute to a private school to be very time consuming. My friend's daughter takes the bus 8.5 miles away, which is less than 20 minutes by car but 45+ minutes on the bus, because the kids come from all over and it takes forever to pick up and drop off. And that's with the bus picking her up in her driveway! 

2 miles certainly sounds better than 17 miles! Would you be driving them to the Lutheran high school? If so, it will be much easier to drive them to the public school. That's a very easy biking distance, is that a possibility? Or, if someone in the neighborhood attends, you might pay them to taxi the girls. Either way, the public sounds much less time-consuming. 

Three times as big as a very small school is still pretty small. Their actual classroom experience won't be that different, there are only so many students per class, no matter how many classes in a grade. And it doesn't sound so large as to be overwhelming. I personally don't tend to like very small schools for high school, because being less popular or unpopular can be a much more unpleasant experience with fewer alternatives for a friends group. I wouldn't count on them fitting in better at the Lutheran school just because they went to a feeder school and will know some students. Everything changes in high school, usually. 

Is the test for placement or admissions? For Catholic high schools, they are for admissions. No pass, no go. Some are selective, some are not. I would want to know if they are likely to get in before going through the process. If one is likely to get in and the other is not, what's the plan? 

How young for grade are they? 

The teenage years cost a whole lot more than the kid years, so that's one thing to keep in mind. 

My vote at this point would be public school. If nothing else, the logistics and amount of time don't sound very manageable. 

 

 

[kiwik]

I would (and will be) having the kids test for all possible schools (though that is free here which helps).  We have a choice between on 2 blocks away and one about 10 minutes drive.  I prefer the further one and there is a bike and walking only path for all except the final 100 m or so.  

My main concern in your case is you have been struggling with the current school since the kids started and the high school might be more of the same with added transport problems.

[Annie G]

I’d let them test for the Lutheran school so you can at least have that in case they still want to consider it.

BUT I would make the time to go to a few things at each school- a Friday night football game, a play, stuff like that.  With the bigger public school you can point out that there are more kids, but look- you can see a bunch of small groups of kids hanging out at the game. Everyone finds their tribe, and a bigger school has more options as well as more kids to weed through to find those awesome ones they’ll click with. 

I’d be open with them about things like saving money for college, transportation times, etc.   I’m sure it’s a tough choice for you all!

[SKL]

Yeah, you can see why this is hard.

To answer the question about their ages, my kids have October and January birthdays, which are (a) 10 days and (b) 3 months past the regular age cutoff.  With redshirting etc., my youngest is about a year younger than the average student in the class.  But she is intellectually advanced (hence the early start), and usually on honor roll, so she would not repeat a grade.  Eldest is more socially mature/adept and prefers older to younger companions.

I mentioned this to my friends, who came up with the idea of putting them in a catholic school which is a little closer ... I am not interested in doing that for several reasons.  So the conversation pretty much died there.  I did take a look at the two closest Catholic high schools, but they aren't that much closer, cost more, and at least one of them has competitive admission & would probably not accept both of my kids.

[SKL]

I guess I should try to get a shadow day when the public school is in session but our school isn't.

I agree with doing the test at the Lutheran school and see what happens.  It is possible one of my kids will score well (she is smart but isn't a good test taker).  That would provide additional options that might play into the decision.

[Ottakee]

I was raised in a single parent home and went to the Christian highschool 17 miles away.  The bus service took almost 2 hours to get your home so we car pooled with older teens driving there and paid them gas money each week and as soon as we turned 16 we all bought our own cars and got jobs.  The local public school was not very good back then (improved a lot since then) and I was glad for the school I went to.

I went from a school of 67 students, K-8 (my class was the largest ever at 12) to a highschool of 800.  After a few days I adjusted just fine.  The hard part is the distance.  If you are coming 17 miles from one direction, other classmates will be coming from 17 miles away in another direction.  That means friends might be closer to an hour away.  That is a LOT of driving, esp. if you don't anticipate your kids getting a license and car at 16.

I had grandparents that lived about a mile from the school and often I would stay the night there to be closer to school/activities/friends.

It was a good school but in your situation, I might strongly consider the public school.   Is there a way your young for grade daughter could start out as an 8th grader and then move up (or is she not the one struggling with academics as well)?   While I originally thought I hated the idea that I was the oldest in my class, that changed in highschool where there were a few more friends just a bit older than me, but it helped me socially, academically, etc. to be the older end for my grade.

[Ottakee]

7 minutes ago, SKL said:

Yeah, you can see why this is hard.

To answer the question about their ages, my kids have October and January birthdays, which are (a) 10 days and (b) 3 months past the regular age cutoff.  With redshirting etc., my youngest is about a year younger than the average student in the class.  But she is intellectually advanced (hence the early start), and usually on honor roll, so she would not repeat a grade.  Eldest is more socially mature/adept and prefers older to younger companions.

 

This is tough as in our area, many start K closer to age 6 which would make her almost 18 months younger than some of the other kids.  Does the public school offer gifted and talented classes, advanced opportunities that she could take as an 8th grader?  An option for a 5 year highschool program?   I just wonder how it will be if she graduates just 4 months past her 17th birthday.

[Carol in Cal.]

Lutheran schools tend to have good academics, and the one you are talking about sounds reasonable in size.

I took a bus (15 minutes) and then a streetcar ride (maybe 20?) and then a half mile walk every day to get to and from high school.  This is because my high school was an academic one that pulled kids from a wide geography.  This gave me no trouble socially at all as many of the other kids were in the same boat.  The school sponsored sports teams, dances, and after school optional athletic classes, and I didn’t do any extra-curriculars outside of school except church related stuff, even though I had done so before.  There wasn’t time, and I was in a pretty enriched learning environment without that.

I wouldn’t rule out the Lutheran school, IOW.

[prairiewindmomma]

I'd put them in public school, setting aside a bit of money for tutors if need be. I think putting them in a bit of a bigger pond while you can still guide the process before they go on to university is wise.  Plus, the driving would kill me. 

 

[SKL]

4 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

This is tough as in our area, many start K closer to age 6 which would make her almost 18 months younger than some of the other kids.  Does the public school offer gifted and talented classes, advanced opportunities that she could take as an 8th grader?  An option for a 5 year highschool program?   I just wonder how it will be if she graduates just 4 months past her 17th birthday.

I'm not worried about them graduating at 17.  They have many college options close to home, so they do not have to move out to go to college.

[Frances]

1 minute ago, Ottakee said:

This is tough as in our area, many start K closer to age 6 which would make her almost 18 months younger than some of the other kids.  Does the public school offer gifted and talented classes, advanced opportunities that she could take as an 8th grader?  An option for a 5 year highschool program?   I just wonder how it will be if she graduates just 4 months past her 17th birthday.

I completely agree about at least considering options for not having your daughters be the youngest in their class for high school. One of my best friends has a daughter who is brilliant (speaks multiple languages fluently and is very advanced in math and science), and she had her skip a grade in elementary. By high school, she deeply regretted it. Even though she was still accepted into a highly competitive gifted and talented program for middle school and graduated towards the very top of her class from one of the best high schools in the state, the difference in maturity level compared to her peers made for very rocky high school years for the entire family. And she never achieved what she desired in ECs because she was always competing against older, more experienced peers. Her parents really wanted her to wait a year before going away for college, but she refused.

[SKL]

If it weren't for the distance, I think the Lutheran school would win hands down.  So I should probably look into options for transportation.  Maybe there are some possibilities that don't devour hours of study time.

[Frances]

5 minutes ago, SKL said:

I'm not worried about them graduating at 17.  They have many college options close to home, so they do not have to move out to go to college.

But what if they want to move away for college? My friend I referenced above didn’t want her daughter to go away for college at 17. But being highly gifted and a great test taker meant she got full ride offers at many colleges, so she didn’t need their financial help to go to college.

[catz]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

I'm not worried about them graduating at 17.  They have many college options close to home, so they do not have to move out to go to college.

With them on the very younger end of the age range though, I'd look very carefully at the social aspects of each school. I assume they are fitting in well socially at the Lutheran school as is?  Unfortunately, American Schools and especially middle through high school are very much about building social and leadership skills alongside academics.  Statiscially, the more mature and older kids in the group tend to do better.  There can be advantages financially to having another year of academics under the belt and a stronger ACT/SAT score.  I know a number of people who have undone a grade skip with a kid about to go to high school.   Dual enrolling as a high schooler is a possibility as well.  

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Frances said:

I completely agree about at least considering options for not having your daughters be the youngest in their class for high school. One of my best friends has a daughter who is brilliant (speaks multiple languages fluently and is very advanced in math and science), and she had her skip a grade in elementary. By high school, she deeply regretted it. Even though she was still accepted into a highly competitive gifted and talented program for middle school and graduated towards the very top of her class from one of the best high schools in the state, the difference in maturity level compared to her peers made for very rocky high school years for the entire family. And she never achieved what she desired in ECs because she was always competing against older, more experienced peers. Her parents really wanted her to wait a year before going away for college, but she refused.

I think this ship  already sailed long ago.  I don't disagree that there are downsides to being younger.  But there are also downsides to delaying academics.  And there is no guarantee that being older and twice as smart for grade will be a better fit.

[SKL]

15 minutes ago, Frances said:

But what if they want to move away for college? My friend I referenced above didn’t want her daughter to go away for college at 17. But being highly gifted and a great test taker meant she got full ride offers at many colleges, so she didn’t need their financial help to go to college.

Right now I am not worried that my kid is going to get a bunch of full-ride scholarships.  She is not a hard worker and she's not a genius.  Sounds like a good problem to have though.  😛

That said ... my kid doesn't have a legal right to leave home without permission before 18.  I am willing to cross that bridge when we come to it.  Right now she can barely spend the night away on a school trip with her sister in the same room.

[Carol in Cal.]

22 minutes ago, SKL said:

If it weren't for the distance, I think the Lutheran school would win hands down.  So I should probably look into options for transportation.  Maybe there are some possibilities that don't devour hours of study time.

When might they start driving themselves?

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

When might they start driving themselves?

Unfortunately they turn 16 in the 11th grade, and our state is talking about upping the driving age to 16.5.  I can't wait for them to start driving!

[Pen]

Would it be possible to take the private school entrance exam to have that as an option, then try going to the the public school (maybe starting in 8th when it doesn’t “count”—though if a totally different school that might not be a valid test, then return to the Lutheran for 10th if the public school isn’t a good fit?  Or sooner if it’s really a bad fit? 

 

[Pen]

Do you have other places to get Christian values you want like a church group? 

 

 

 

 

In any case I suggest you visit and spend time at both options if you can.  

Go to games, end of year things if school is still in session with any concerts, plays, or games...  See if there’s anything they could join now at the public (ours has middle and high school summer basketball with sign ups tomorrow, and open gym certain days, for example).

If all closed now at least do that next year.  Pretend they ‘re in the activities you expect they’d be in and dry run the driving you’d need to do for those activities.  Multiply by around two for non official extras. Study groups.  Going to watch a friend in another sport...

Driving to events at both will give you an idea of how much of a difficulty it would be to be 17 miles versus 2 miles.   It could be that after school and evening events aren’t so common at the 17 mike away school as at our schools.  Or maybe public transportation is much better in your area and it would not matter.  (I had part of high school in NYC where public transportation allowed me to get around on my own). 

I know now though that I’m extremely grateful for close. Especially when I needed to do late drives to/from  the school and or in inclement weather and fog.   or to go do an 11 pm ish pick up after Ds has returned from a track meet (around 7 times per season that happened— plus a bunch of Saturdays with 7 AM sports meet departures) it was nice to be just a few miles to go. 

 

(eta: actually it was still pretty grueling even for 3 miles away and we cut down on activities this year)

Edited June 10, 2019 by Pen

[Ottakee]

37 minutes ago, SKL said:

I think this ship  already sailed long ago.  I don't disagree that there are downsides to being younger.  But there are also downsides to delaying academics.  And there is no guarantee that being older and twice as smart for grade will be a better fit.

Would giving them both an extra year before high school give them more breathing room?  Time to mature?  You mention that one of yours struggles academically and one has struggles socially.  You also said that one of them can barely keep up with school and sports, etc.  Maybe giving them the extra year would give them more margin.  You can be super smart but not necessarily have the more advanced thinking skills that just come with age.  It might also give them a better chance to be on sport teams and get scholarships.

In effect you would not be  holding them back at all from the public school standards as neither would meet the cut offs for the grade they are currently in.

Just trying to say this lovingly as a teacher who has seen over and over again the struggles of the youngest kid(s) in a class.

[Frances]

35 minutes ago, SKL said:

Right now I am not worried that my kid is going to get a bunch of full-ride scholarships.  She is not a hard worker and she's not a genius.  Sounds like a good problem to have though.  😛

That said ... my kid doesn't have a legal right to leave home without permission before 18.  I am willing to cross that bridge when we come to it.  Right now she can barely spend the night away on a school trip with her sister in the same room.

My friend didn’t see it as a good problem to have, she saw it as a nightmare. She would far rather her daughter had taken a gap year and matured, even if it meant paying for all of her college expenses. Or better yet, never had done the grade skip.

[Liz CA]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

If it weren't for the distance, I think the Lutheran school would win hands down.  So I should probably look into options for transportation.  Maybe there are some possibilities that don't devour hours of study time.

 

Carpooling? For me the academic rating and some Christian principles would win especially in a single parenting situation but it's a very individual decision. 

[Frances]

5 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

Would giving them both an extra year before high school give them more breathing room?  Time to mature?  You mention that one of yours struggles academically and one has struggles socially.  You also said that one of them can barely keep up with school and sports, etc.  Maybe giving them the extra year would give them more margin.  You can be super smart but not necessarily have the more advanced thinking skills that just come with age.  It might also give them a better chance to be on sport teams and get scholarships.

In effect you would not be  holding them back at all from the public school standards as neither would meet the cut offs for the grade they are currently in.

Just trying to say this lovingly as a teacher who has seen over and over again the struggles of the youngest kid(s) in a class.

And high school is not like middle or elementary school. At least at the public school, they would likely be able to take more advanced academic classes as soon as they were ready for them. For example, here some students are taking calculus as sophomores and then dual enrolling for advanced math at the local LAC or community college. Or my personal favorite, taking college prep classes while also getting votech training, so they graduate ready for college but with marketable skills that get them great part-time and summer jobs before they are ready for research or internships.

[mmasc]

I’d probably lean private because 1) if they want to and it’s working, I wouldn’t want to rock the boat, and would prefer to just keep on with the familiar and 2) I wouldn’t like the low rating at the public school

 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I think this ship  already sailed long ago.  I don't disagree that there are downsides to being younger.  But there are also downsides to delaying academics.  And there is no guarantee that being older and twice as smart for grade will be a better fit.

 

I agree that there’s no guarantee about anything.  

Emotional maturity is important though. 

I don’t understand about “twice as smart for grade”.  ?   

And I’m confused about the children— they’re both girls in 8th grade but not twins?  With one of them advanced academically but behind her peers emotionally?  And the other more comfortable socially but not doing as well academically?

I graduated high school at 17 and 2 months. I wish I had had another year for maturing more. 

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, mmasc said:

I’d probably lean private because 1) if they want to and it’s working, I wouldn’t want to rock the boat, and would prefer to just keep on with the familiar and 2) I wouldn’t like the low rating at the public school

 

 

Keeping on with what’s working and what they want has a lot of merit if the transportation can be worked out.  

[Pen]

 

But, OTOH:

 

4 hours ago, Storygirl said:

 

Having read many of your prior threads, I feel like you have not been completely satisfied with the current school in some aspects, and I think that is also a big reason to see what other options look like.

 

3 hours ago, kiwik said:

My main concern in your case is you have been struggling with the current school since the kids started and the high school might be more of the same with added transport problems.

 

[SKL]

20 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I agree that there’s no guarantee about anything.  

Emotional maturity is important though. 

I don’t understand about “twice as smart for grade”.  ?   

And I’m confused about the children— they’re both girls in 8th grade but not twins?  With one of them advanced academically but behind her peers emotionally?  And the other more comfortable socially but not doing as well academically?

I graduated high school at 17 and 2 months. I wish I had had another year for maturing more. 

What I meant by "twice as smart for grade" (not intending to be mathematically correct) was that being, say, 3 years ahead academically can be more problematic than being 2 years ahead.  (My youngest's knowledge is probably a couple years ahead in all areas other than math, where she is only a little above average for her grade.)

My kids are going into 8th grade this fall.  They are adoptees and their ages are 3 months apart.  Youngest is the more academically advanced one.  I would not say she is socially backward for her age, but she is quirky and silly at times.  Her current classmates are accepting of her quirks, and she does have some very good friends.  Eldest is about average both academically and socially, with some weak areas and some offsetting strong ones.

[Terabith]

We homeschooled each kid K-3, sent them to Catholic school for grades 4-8 (oldest) and 3 (second round of third grade)-6th for youngest, and are now at public.  Socially, my kids are much, MUCH more happy and relaxed at public school.  The diversity has been really good for them.  There are less cliques, and there's not the same high income vibe that the Catholic school had.  The fine arts and extracurricular activities have been amazing in public, for my oldest especially.  She has really blossomed with all the dance, theater, and musical opportunities.  They're not sports oriented, but there are definitely opportunities there.  What private schools do have is that pretty much everyone can be in any activity they want.  So my kid who sucked at softball played softball at Catholic school.  But the quality of the music and drama in public.....there's no comparison, and she has learned SO MUCH.  Academically, I have one kid who is top of her class pretty much everywhere.  The public school pre-AP/ AP/ honors route is less rigorous than Catholic school, but not dramatically so.  She hasn't really pushed herself academically at either place.  I think Catholic school academics were better for both my kids, but public school academics are ADEQUATE, at least so far.  I don't think non honors classes would be adequate, however, at these schools.  

Financially, there's no question that public is better for us.  It's going to allow us to save some money for college and retirement.  The commuting time would be a serious downer, too.  I vote public for your kids.  You've had a lot of problems over the years at the Lutheran school.  This seems like a good opportunity to try something different in a natural way.  

[SKL]

Regarding the kid who does struggle with academics, I have discussed this in the past with another mom of 2 kids at the Lutheran school, who also works at the Lutheran school.  She says they have enough academic options to accommodate both academically advanced and slower learners.  I kind of doubt there will be much difference between the two schools in this regard.  My kid wants to go to college, so she's not in for an easy ride, and she knows it.

Yes, I've had peeves with my kids' present school, but they are rather attached to it.  I doubt we will find perfection anywhere.  I know that when I went to public secondary school, the bullying was a heck of a lot more intense, the fist fights, the PDA, the peer pressure to not try our best, illegal behaviors that were not dealt with ....  I had disliked my Lutheran elementary school too, for other reasons.  I am kind of amazed that my kids, or any kids, actually like school.  😛

[Ottakee]

10 minutes ago, SKL said:

 

My kids are going into 8th grade this fall.  They are adoptees and their ages are 3 months apart.  Youngest is the more academically advanced one.  I would not say she is socially backward for her age, but she is quirky and silly at times.  Her current classmates are accepting of her quirks, and she does have some very good friends.  Eldest is about average both academically and socially, with some weak areas and some offsetting strong ones.

Will the friends they have be continuing on to the highschool?  If so, that can be important.

If your girls are transracially/transculturally adopted, which school provides the most diversity in classmates and staff and same race/culture role models?

Just a caution on the academics...I was the top of my class in a small Christian school.  In a much larger highschool I found myself still doing well but there were easily 50-75 kids in my class smarter and more advanced than me.  So, right now your day might be 2 years more advanced than her classmates in a larger highschool setting she might be passed by many others, esp if they come from schools with stronger academics/more opportunities.

[Frances]

9 minutes ago, SKL said:

What I meant by "twice as smart for grade" (not intending to be mathematically correct) was that being, say, 3 years ahead academically can be more problematic than being 2 years ahead.  (My youngest's knowledge is probably a couple years ahead in all areas other than math, where she is only a little above average for her grade.)

My kids are going into 8th grade this fall.  They are adoptees and their ages are 3 months apart.  Youngest is the more academically advanced one.  I would not say she is socially backward for her age, but she is quirky and silly at times.  Her current classmates are accepting of her quirks, and she does have some very good friends.  Eldest is about average both academically and socially, with some weak areas and some offsetting strong ones.

It doesn’t sound like being in the correct grades for their age during high school would be at all problematic for either girl academically and perhaps a real bonus for the older one. Many bright kids from enriched backgrounds in their regular grades are reading, writing, and comprehending way above grade level and still find plenty to interest and challenge them during high school. I went to a very average Midwest public high school with no honors or AP classes and had classmates that went on to get PhDs and advanced professional degrees from some of the top universities in the country. Graduating high school at age 18 was just fine for them.

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

Will the friends they have be continuing on to the highschool?  If so, that can be important.

If your girls are transracially/transculturally adopted, which school provides the most diversity in classmates and staff and same race/culture role models?

Just a caution on the academics...I was the top of my class in a small Christian school.  In a much larger highschool I found myself still doing well but there were easily 50-75 kids in my class smarter and more advanced than me.  So, right now your day might be 2 years more advanced than her classmates in a larger highschool setting she might be passed by many others, esp if they come from schools with stronger academics/more opportunities.

I would say about third of their classmates will move on to the Lutheran high school.  Fewer will move on to their public school, because most are zoned for other public high schools.

Neither school is particularly diverse.

I don't think my kids will be at the top of their class at any school.  The one who could try just doesn't care.  That could be because she has several gifted classmates 1+ years older, so why try.  (And I am OK with that, as long as she keeps honor roll.)  There is a high concentration of gifted kids in their present school, which may approximately mirror the college prep classes in the public school.

[SKL]

My kids will not be repeating 8th grade.  (Barring any major disaster occurring in the next year.)

[Pen]

45 minutes ago, SKL said:

What I meant by "twice as smart for grade" (not intending to be mathematically correct) was that being, say, 3 years ahead academically can be more problematic than being 2 years ahead.  (My youngest's knowledge is probably a couple years ahead in all areas other than math, where she is only a little above average for her grade.)

 

That may not be all that uncommon, whether 2 years or 3 years. And may be fine in either school, either grade.   It tends to be more of an issue when it is a highly gifted child who is academically doing around 12 grade level work at a 5th grade typical age. 

I would tend to prefer a placement that fits emotional maturity and physical maturity and then take DE etc as needed for the academic  fit. 

One thing nice though about being a bit younger is if they need to take an extra year to finish requirements, or want or need a gap year before college, then there’s still some leeway.  

 

Quote

My kids are going into 8th grade this fall.  They are adoptees and their ages are 3 months apart.  Youngest is the more academically advanced one.  I would not say she is socially backward for her age, but she is quirky and silly at times.  Her current classmates are accepting of her quirks, and she does have some very good friends.  Eldest is about average both academically and socially, with some weak areas and some offsetting strong ones.

 

Ah.  That kinda makes me wish I’d adopted 2 not one.  

 

 

 

On transportation, does your state allow a new driver to drive another child, or is there a waiting period before one dd would be able to drive both?  You can’t guarantee that either will be driving right away when legally old enough, but a lot of states have rules where minor children can’t drive other minor children for 6 months or a year.  Sometimes it’s allowed sooner for a sibling.  

[Pen]

Will they both be in Algebra 1 this next year in 8th? 

[SKL]

14 minutes ago, Pen said:

Will they both be in Algebra 1 this next year in 8th? 

No, they will both be in pre-algebra.  Why?

[WendyLady]

I find it odd that anyone would suggest holding back middle school students who might be a little young, but are doing okay in school. That’s just crazy!

My son is generally the youngest kid in his grade. He’s been sort of small until this year, but otherwise fine. He will graduate at 17. And he will be fine. I haven’t wondered about holding him back since kindergarten. And it’s generally something I only think about when friends who have 4 year olds with late summer birthdays ask for advice. As he is nearing the end of his high school career, I feel blessed that I won’t have to struggle for his full senior year with an 18 year old who is totally done with high school (I’ve seen friends really struggle with this with their kids who have early fall birthdays and missed the school cut off)

I know that is totally not your question. So, back to Lutheran vs public school. Here are some random, probably unrelated thoughts about your question: We live in a heavily Lutheran area. There is a large Lutheran community in our public high school among both students and faculty. I think they are awesome, normal, good people. Kindness and serving others seems to be a big thing for their church group. We’ve also never felt shunned for being outsiders! (And we are outsiders in a few ways - religiously, plus we are not here for generations like most, military family, etc)

There’s a small Lutheran private school across town from us, but the only person I know who went there was a girl who was struggling with a few different issues and needed smaller class sizes. For sports teams, they struggle to play against the larger schools (we are in a small town with  just 2 public high schools on the smaller side, and two private high schools - even smaller - Lutheran and catholic.) we creamed them in soccer and volleyball. But their individual tennis players are great! Anyone can play on their high school teams including middle schoolers - which is both good and bad depending.

Different tangent - we are exactly 17 miles from our kids’ high school. That is 30 minutes if all of the lights cooperate. We used to live 7 minutes from the school.  It’s been brutal to do that drive twice, or three, and even occasionally 4 times a day.  And one of my kids drives!! It has been much harder to foster friendships.  And most extracurriculars outside of school still center around that area.  We knew it would be tough, and we knew it would be just for a year, but it’s honestly been harder than I imagined. I’ve spent hours in my car waiting between things, plus so much more fast food...

Anyway, after homeschooling, we opted for public schools. We’ve done our best to live near better high schools, and have mostly not regretted that decision. We’ve lived in larger cities with great schools with lots of options and smaller towns with few options. Either way, my kids have worked about as hard as they are willing to - ie they didn’t magically change into geniuses just because we lived in a fancy pants DC suburb school district. They are just themselves wherever we have lived (this is making me feel a little better since we are moving away from our sweet small town and taking our youngest son to a big bad city and making him change high schools before his junior year - he will manage - he will be okay - he will be his awesome self regardless) and so will your girls.  

I imagine your girls will be fine in either school. Helping them build their community and place in whichever school you choose is probably more important than the individual school choice. Choose to stick with one school for the long haul unless something major happens - don’t be wishy washy and switch every other year! Sports, music, clubs, being involved - all matter - both for kids and parents. Buy the school hoodies. Wear them to the football games. Go to the games and concerts and shows!! It will go by faster than you can imagine!  

 

[Pen]

25 minutes ago, SKL said:

No, they will both be in pre-algebra.  Why?

 

Gives me a better sense of what “ahead” might mean.  Since it varies geographically and in particular schools. 

In many places Algebra 1 is the new “average” level for 8th grade. 

“As recently as 1990, taking algebra in eighth gradewas unique. That has changed dramatically in recent years, and now more eighth graders take algebrathan any other math class. Enrollment in eighth-grade algebra—and in other advanced math classes—varies by state.Mar 18, 2013

 

Advanced Math in Eighth Grade - Brookings ...”

 

 

Where we are in a rural area, pre-Algebra is still common in 8th grade.  At the best high schools in our state’s bigger cities, Algebra 1 is standard (some kids already beyond that) and science progression is based on having had Algebra1 by 8th grade.  

Eta: Even at our somewhat slow little rural school there are kids who are really ahead and doing calculus in early high school and ready for DE half way through high school.  

Edited June 10, 2019 by Pen

[Frances]

18 minutes ago, SKL said:

No, they will both be in pre-algebra.  Why?

Normal college prep at most places is now Algebra in grade 8, unless the high school does not offer calculus. If algebra in grade 8 is the norm at the public school, it might be difficult for them schedule wise to do the entire college prep curriculum, it just depends how many sections are offered of each class. Science courses are also often tied to math level. That would be good to ask about when visiting the public school.

[Pen]

10 minutes ago, Frances said:

Normal college prep at most places is now Algebra in grade 8, unless the high school does not offer calculus. If algebra in grade 8 is the norm at the public school, it might be difficult for them schedule wise to do the entire college prep curriculum, it just depends how many sections are offered of each class. 

 

Thanks. I think you put this more clearly than I did. 

Yes.  It can affect not only math itself and science, but also even whether they’d be in English or history with the other average college bound kids or in the classes with the slightly behind, academically speaking, kids. 

And that can also affect friendships etc. 

Quote

Science courses are also often tied to math level. That would be good to ask about when visiting the public school.

 

ITA   

 

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Pen

[Frances]

8 minutes ago, WendyLady said:

I find it odd that anyone would suggest holding back middle school students who might be a little young, but are doing okay in school. That’s just crazy!

 

I think some are suggesting it not just because they are young for their grade, but because they were both actually placed a grade ahead of their true grade by age, unless I’m misunderstanding the cutoff and birthdays. And the oldest has struggled somewhat academically. If they were going to transition to the public high school anyway, doing grade 8 at both would not be a huge deal and allow time for adjustment before grades count for college. I agree it would be crazy to hold them back if they stay at the private school.

[Frances]

8 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Thanks. I think you put this more clearly than I did. 

Yes.  It can affect not only math itself and science, but also even whether they’d be in English or history with the other average college bound kids or in the classes with the slightly behind, academically speaking, kids. 

And that can also affect friendships etc. 

 

ITA   

 

 

Exactly. When my son entered public middle school in sixth grade, his entire schedule except electives was determined by math level. He was in the highest level of classes completely due to his score on a math placement test. We were fortunate he did so well because math is definitely not his strength.

[SKL]

40 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Gives me a better sense of what “ahead” might mean.  Since it varies geographically and in particular schools. 

In many places Algebra 1 is the new “average” level for 8th grade. 

“As recently as 1990, taking algebra in eighth gradewas unique. That has changed dramatically in recent years, and now more eighth graders take algebrathan any other math class. Enrollment in eighth-grade algebra—and in other advanced math classes—varies by state.Mar 18, 2013

 

Advanced Math in Eighth Grade - Brookings ...”

 

 

Where we are in a rural area, pre-Algebra is still common in 8th grade.  At the best high schools in our state’s bigger cities, Algebra 1 is standard (some kids already beyond that) and science progression is based on having had Algebra1 by 8th grade.  

Eta: Even at our somewhat slow little rural school there are kids who are really ahead and doing calculus in early high school and ready for DE half way through high school.  

Yeah, most kids in our school are in pre-algebra in 8th.  A few tested into it for 7th, but as I've noted, my kid is not a good test taker.  Other than a few geometry formulas, there was nothing in 7th grade math (or probably pre-algebra) that she did not know going in.  I have no doubt that she would do fine in Algebra in 8th if she got placed in that class.

Also, just putting Algebra in 8th grade doesn't make all the 8th graders smarter in math.  I'm not really sure what it does.

[WendyLady]

18 minutes ago, Frances said:

I think some are suggesting it not just because they are young for their grade, but because they were both actually placed a grade ahead of their true grade by age, unless I’m misunderstanding the cutoff and birthdays. And the oldest has struggled somewhat academically. If they were going to transition to the public high school anyway, doing grade 8 at both would not be a huge deal and allow time for adjustment before grades count for college. I agree it would be crazy to hold them back if they stay at the private school.

SKL says she’s not keeping them back. I’m backing her on that. I think it’s the smartest and really only choice and probably matters more than whether the girls go public or private.

In my experience with public school kids, being “held back” or repeating a grade would be a huge embarrassment (even when as far back as 1st grade) regardless of the reason - being young, skipping a grade earlier, illness, etc. Switching from private to public school is not the same as going from homeschool to attending school. Kids will know, and remember, and comment. Some of those kids will be their current peers from their current school - how tough would that be for a 14 year old to explain??? You want any changes to be as smooth and easy as possible. I see the issue with algebra, but I think that’s less of a big deal. Academic issues can be helped along with tutoring and with making sure they are in classes that fit their level. Social issues are so much harder to deal with. 

Algebra in 9th grade is fine. Many kids do it in 8th, but there are plenty of college track kids taking it in 9th grade. It helps avoid the issue of floundering as a senior who is not at all interested in calculus, but has taken every other available high school math class...