Verb usage in kids

[lulalu]

Asking for a friend. 7.5 yo boy. He will tell a story and most of the verbs will still be incorrect. Examples: goed, sleeped, seen, am'nt. (He just told me a short story of what he did the other day and the only correct verb usage he used was the word was) He also is difficult for others to understand. As he has gotten older it has become more clear that many people can't always understand what he is saying. He speaks at a high volume too. Very monotone. However, pediatrician has never been concerned about hearing or speech. 

Anyone else experience this and it work itself out? Is it normal for kids this old to still struggle with verbs so much? 

I already gave her my answer and thoughts on what she needs to do, but she wants to hear from more people. 

[Teaching3bears]

I knew a child who was impossible to understand until after age 10 ( I can't remember if verbs were a particular problem). As a teen this problem resolved and he became extremely gifted and ended up becoming very successful. You never know.

[ealp2009]

I would definitely get an evaluation by a speech therapist.  I would never count on something like this resolving itself.  The older a child gets the harder it is to correct.  A 7.5 should be easily understood.  

[maize]

So he has internalized normal grammar but hasn't yet picked up all the exceptions? 

That part doesn't worry me; if the problem were that he couldn't for example construct a normal past tense I would see that as some kind of language deficit, but I don't think 7 is too old to still be over generalizing--which is what the examples you gave show him doing.

High volume and monotone speech though I would want to have evaluated by an audiologist and a speech pathologist. He might be just fine--my boys tend to be high volume speakers LOL--but an evaluation won't hurt.

[Farrar]

I mean, some of that is fine at this age. The volume thing seems especially normal to me - so many kids can't really moderate their volume very well before age 9 or 10. And most kids still have a handful of baby words, many of these seem to be funny verb usage. Plus, if this kid is homeschooled, then the social and institutional pressure to do these things doesn't exist, so there's that.

But if it's as bad as you say, I'd get it checked. I mean, neurotypical 7 yos should be understandable to anyone who generally knows how to listen to children.

[gardenmom5]

how much exposure does he have to correct verb usage by adults?  how much is he exposed to correct enunciation by adults?  how often is he read to?  what level books are read to him?   this is the first way children learn about proper language usage.

has he had a hearing screen to make sure his hearing is good?

I would get answers to those questions before jumping to a slp.

 

eta: the volume thing (and the not well understood speech thing) could also indicate a hearing issue.  just last night dsil was relating his experience with a man who was always very loud.  then he got a hearing aid for each ear. he became so quiet (because he could hear himself)  they had to tell him to talk louder...

Edited February 17, 2019 by gardenmom5

[arliemaria]

I’d love to hear more about Reader’s Theater. How would one do this at home? I have my 9 yo/3rd grader read aloud to his K/1 sister everyday to listen to his enunciation.

[Arcadia]

High volume - not a red flag usually for that age unless the child obviously can’t hear well. My kids talk louder when they have lots of ear wax

monotone - seems odd if it is really monotone. My oldest talks in a very measured (very cautious) tone since infancy (early talker) but it’s not monotonous. He talks in a solemn way most of the time.

verb usage - depends on what language exposure (verbal, written) the child has and what the child has been taught. Some kids in public school catch on to formal grammar later than their classmates, like around 3rd grade. My “chatty” DS13 had lots of grammar errors when he was talking excitedly until he was around ten, but his written work was grammatically correct since he was six. 

[Carrie12345]

I do know a child who has this issue as well as with plurals. He receives speech therapy. I’ve noticed improvement in enunciation over time, but not word usage.

Sometimes it’s hard to watch because his peers are beginning to giggle. I don’t think they intend to be mean (and I don’t think he understands what they’re giggling for), just that they think he makes silly mistakes like the rest of them sometimes do, and that he’ll giggle when he realizes what he’s said.  Instead, he’s just confused.

I’m really hoping speech helps him in that area soon.

[Pawz4me]

High volume + monotone is fairly common among kids on the spectrum, I think.

[Tanaqui]

It's always better to get this sort of thing evaluated than to wonder and worry that you ought to have it evaluated.

[Innisfree]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

High volume + monotone is fairly common among kids on the spectrum, I think.

This is what I thought of. My dd with ASD had some trouble with the less commonly used verb tenses until she was maybe 10 or so, as well.

[SKL]

Is English his first language?

I think it is very normal to have some errors in irregular verbs even up into middle school.  But at age 7.5 I would expect it to be the minority of irregular verbs the child uses.  I also agree that speech should be mostly understandable at that age.  That said, I do have a 12yo daughter who is hard to understand at times.  If I remind her to enunciate, she is fine.  I sometimes have to remind my kid that communication is about the other person understanding you.  🙂

[lulalu]

I'll amswer a few questions: 

English is his first and only language. 

As far as I know reading is sporadic in the family. And I don't think they read books above level. He is still not a reader himself, but his older siblings who can read, never read. All homeschooled, and not around a lot of other kids or adults during the week. I think church once a week is about it and maybe once a week seeing grandparents. 

He is the 5th child, none of his older siblings have issues with speech or word usage. He sounds at the same level as his 3 yo brother. There are 9 kids total. So mom is busy and has older kids do a lot of helping younger ones. 

He also gets plurals, him her, aunt uncle, and such mixed up. 

[lulalu]

1 hour ago, Tanaqui said:

It's always better to get this sort of thing evaluated than to wonder and worry that you ought to have it evaluated.

That is what I told the mom. They have insurance to cover tests. But I think she hopes it will just work itself out. 

[gardenmom5]

33 minutes ago, lulalu said:

I'll amswer a few questions: 

English is his first and only language. 

As far as I know reading is sporadic in the family. And I don't think they read books above level. He is still not a reader himself, but his older siblings who can read, never read. All homeschooled, and not around a lot of other kids or adults during the week. I think church once a week is about it and maybe once a week seeing grandparents. 

He is the 5th child, none of his older siblings have issues with speech or word usage. He sounds at the same level as his 3 yo brother. There are 9 kids total. So mom is busy and has older kids do a lot of helping younger ones. 

He also gets plurals, him her, aunt uncle, and such mixed up. 

it sounds like the whole family would benefit from reading real stories on a more frequent basis.  not picture books.  More verbal interaction with adults with good speech and vocabulary.  more focus by the adults with actually clearly enunciating their own speech.  I would also suggest when he wants something, have him use full words.  it can be easy to just give them what they want, and they don't get the speech practice

[kbutton]

My first thought was either very poor speaking around him (which is apparently not the case, even if they aren't big readers), or autism. 

There is never a need to wonder about hearing, except maybe with auditory processing issues (which can be a problem in kids with perfect hearing). You just get it tested. The pediatrician could be taking cues from the mom ("Are you worried? You have nine kids. If you're not worried; I'm not worried..."). 

For auditory processing issues, the initial screening would involve something like a SCAN-III test in conjunction with a typical hearing screening (and they will probably look at wax in the ears too).

If he has trouble discriminating between sounds, he could have dyslexia and/or some kind of auditory processing difficulty. They can be like two sides of the same coin. You can have dyslexia or APD and be on the spectrum as well.

I would highly recommend testing with an audiologist, and then testing with a psychologist that can look at dyslexia and spectrum issues. The psychologist might also assess some aspects of speech, but an SLP evaluation is probably warranted to.

I would go big on this, but both of my kids have multiple diagnoses, mostly stealthy ones. You can't take anything for granted with them, lol!

 

 

[PeterPan]

9 hours ago, lulalu said:

However, pediatrician has never been concerned about hearing or speech. 

Wanna do a little poll on how many peds miss ASD right before the kid gets diagnosed ASD2? 

9 hours ago, lulalu said:

7.5 yo boy. He will tell a story and most of the verbs will still be incorrect. Examples: goed, sleeped, seen, am'nt. (He just told me a short story of what he did the other day and the only correct verb usage he used was the word was) He also is difficult for others to understand. As he has gotten older it has become more clear that many people can't always understand what he is saying. He speaks at a high volume too. Very monotone.

 

2 hours ago, lulalu said:

He is still not a reader himself

So here's your problem. All of the bolded things by themselves are issues that should be getting him referred for SLP evals. He is ps or homeschooled? If he's homeschooled, it's high time. He should be 100% intelligible even if he still has articulation errors. At 7 they'll treat articulation errors too, but I'm saying he should be INTELLIGIBLE, meaning people know what he MEANT. Intelligibility is how prosody (his tone and pacing) and all kinds of things come together. It's most telling when it's strangers, people in the grocery store. If he is not 100% intelligible to a stranger in the grocery store, he needs a referral. 

As far as the verbs, the SPELT is the test she wants. More likely they'll run the CELF or CASL, but I'd be wanting the SPELT. And here's the thing, because his reading is affected at this point, you don't know whether there's phonological processing going on or whether there's a language delay causing reading comprehension issues. You're about to snowball into a BIG PROBLEM that the system will NOT be prepared to treat if you wait. If you start now, the system knows what to do. Wait and it is going to be a bigger problem. Wait long enough and they'll give up and not even have materials. He's only 7.5 now, but when that same kid is 10-12 it's a LOT HARDER to find the materials. I've gone through it with my ds, sigh. So NOW is the time. It is NOT jumping the gun. It's about saving some major heartache here.

I would want testing of phonological processing, narrative language, and of course expressive/receptive language. The SLP should go ahead and run pragmatics while they're at it and a test of auditory processing if they own it and a test of problem solving. The SLP will know what all those things are, but the mom wants to make sure they happen. Depending on what they find there, I would be referring for psych as well. If the insurance will cover SLP testing, start there. The psych will have a longer wait and you want info and intervention sooner.

 

[Storygirl]

I agree with getting tested. There seem to be some red flags that hopefully can be sorted out by experts, if experts are consulted.

Pediatricians only see each kid for minutes and often don't see the whole picture. They also often want to reassure parents that most things are within the range of normal, so they may err on the side of reassurance instead of exploring the possibility that real problems may be there. I've experienced this myself with a very trusted (by me) pediatrician who missed signs and wanted to reassure. I ended up going around him and seeking help anyway. After he saw the testing results that I brought to him, he then became very helpful in dealing with the issues. This seems to be not uncommon.

[Tanaqui]

8 hours ago, lulalu said:

That is what I told the mom. They have insurance to cover tests. But I think she hopes it will just work itself out. 

 

Hasn't she ever heard that you're supposed to hope for the best and plan for the worst? It doesn't work if you try to do it the other way around.

[lulalu]

Thanks everyone I will pass on what you've all shared. 

[NorthwestMom]

15 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Wanna do a little poll on how many peds miss ASD right before the kid gets diagnosed ASD2? 

 

So here's your problem. All of the bolded things by themselves are issues that should be getting him referred for SLP evals. He is ps or homeschooled? If he's homeschooled, it's high time. He should be 100% intelligible even if he still has articulation errors. At 7 they'll treat articulation errors too, but I'm saying he should be INTELLIGIBLE, meaning people know what he MEANT. Intelligibility is how prosody (his tone and pacing) and all kinds of things come together. It's most telling when it's strangers, people in the grocery store. If he is not 100% intelligible to a stranger in the grocery store, he needs a referral. 

As far as the verbs, the SPELT is the test she wants. More likely they'll run the CELF or CASL, but I'd be wanting the SPELT. And here's the thing, because his reading is affected at this point, you don't know whether there's phonological processing going on or whether there's a language delay causing reading comprehension issues. You're about to snowball into a BIG PROBLEM that the system will NOT be prepared to treat if you wait. If you start now, the system knows what to do. Wait and it is going to be a bigger problem. Wait long enough and they'll give up and not even have materials. He's only 7.5 now, but when that same kid is 10-12 it's a LOT HARDER to find the materials. I've gone through it with my ds, sigh. So NOW is the time. It is NOT jumping the gun. It's about saving some major heartache here.

I would want testing of phonological processing, narrative language, and of course expressive/receptive language. The SLP should go ahead and run pragmatics while they're at it and a test of auditory processing if they own it and a test of problem solving. The SLP will know what all those things are, but the mom wants to make sure they happen. Depending on what they find there, I would be referring for psych as well. If the insurance will cover SLP testing, start there. The psych will have a longer wait and you want info and intervention sooner.

 

I like this post so much I have to quote it too! 😀

There are a TON of red flags in this child's speech. At his age is is very likely NOT to fix itself simply due to the number of various issues identified. A good evaluation will provide insight into why these problems are occurring and how to remediate them. If left unaddressed, these problems are definitely going to negatively affect him educationally and socially. That poor child.