Help me with television control

[Pen]

Where I am, public school gives, if needed, continuing support to SN IEP students past age 18, I think to 21.  That and also having additional support to get through difficulties could be additional reasons in favor of ps, and take some of the stress off of the need to be ready for adulthood in 4 years.  

 

[Pen]

51 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Pssst, which software is this and does it work on phones?

FocusMe and similar ones.

[Kebo]

I'm running short on time this morning and have to type fast, so forgive me if this has already been suggested .... we've had an electronic controller on our television for at least the past dozen years or more.  It can be glitchy occasionally, and the kids don't love it, but as a parent I do!  The one we use (linked below) has PIN codes that can be assigned to each child (up to 6 codes, plus a master PIN), and each code can be programmed to have blocked out times and the time allowed can be allotted by the day or by the week for each PIN,  It has GREATLY simplified television use in our home.  The way I currently use it is that I have all the PINS, programmed for different amounts of time, so the kids ask to use the television and I input the appropriate amount of time. We used to give each child a PIN and that worked okay too.  Good luck with this issue.  We went 6 months television free once, before we got the controller, because television use was such an issue.  It was wonderful!  The kids behavior improved and the days were less stressful.  This controller has been a happy medium between what I want and what the kids want.

https://smile.amazon.com/BOB-Screen-Manager-Manage-Video/dp/B000GU78UY/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1545220802&sr=8-6&keywords=bob+electronic+controller

[lavender's green]

I'll just chime in that my special needs kid has really thrived in school. I was so worried that the stress of it would exacerbate his behaviors. And while it is stressful, it's also broadening (to use Patty Joanna's excellent word), it's structured to the point where he never acts out, and it leaves me free to just be Mom, which has improved our relationship. All of his relationships have improved.

I mention it just because the situations you describe would be a non-issue in a B&M school. There would simply be no option to do it. At the very least that buys you (and the kids who are expected to "babysit" him) 8+ hours, and then maybe that would help you relax about after-school screen time.

I know you're worried about bad influences at school. But at 14 the fact is that you don't have much control over him for much longer, anyway. He's growing up and spreading his wings no matter what.

I wouldn't give away his personal property, either. I don't think that accomplishes anything at his age. It's not like he's a toddler and it's a toy that's causing problems, so you're going to put it in out of reach for a little while.

Good luck with everything. I know you're in a difficult place.

[Storygirl]

One other thought about school. If your son enjoys physical activities more than academics, and if he is able to apply himself to doing rigorous labor, I would highly suggest considering vocational school. You may not be willing to consider sending him to the traditional public school classroom in the meantime (though I still recommend trying or at least looking into it), but he could do vocational ed for his junior and senior year.

Be aware that there are application deadlines, and around here many of the programs are competitive for admission these days, so it is something to explore in advance. Our school has visitation days for middle schoolers and even some weekly summer camps, where the students get to try out the various options, so it's worth looking into now.

And, as Pen mentioned, if a student is on an IEP, they can extend graduation until age 21. In my son's case, that may look like doing four years of regular high school and then doing a two-year vocational program after that. We haven't determined that for sure yet, but it is an option. And the school is required to help parents and student figure out post-grad plans if they have an IEP, so at his IEP meetings, we are now talking about what he would like to aim for as a career and how the school (and community organizations the school is connecting us with) can help him achieve those goals.

I mention this because you said that your son's maturity lags in some areas. This is very common for kids with ADHD and other issues. Having a couple of extra years of support from the school before launching into adult life may end up being important for my son, because he is not likely to go to college and will need to be ready to work.

I don't know if your son would qualify for an IEP through your school, but you might find that there are supports available that you were unaware of. You can ask to meet with the special education coordinator to discuss these kind of things. We met with several high schools when my son was still in sixth grade, because we wanted to plan ahead and see what services could be offered.

I know I haven't given ideas for managing the TV, which is your topic question. I like some of the ideas mentioned by others and may adopt some of them myself.

[ktgrok]

8 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Pssst, which software is this and does it work on phones?

Anti Social is one, and Freedom is another, and I actually don't know if they work on phones, I should check!

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Storygirl said:

One other thought about school. If your son enjoys physical activities more than academics, and if he is able to apply himself to doing rigorous labor, I would highly suggest considering vocational school. You may not be willing to consider sending him to the traditional public school classroom in the meantime (though I still recommend trying or at least looking into it), but he could do vocational ed for his junior and senior year.

Be aware that there are application deadlines, and around here many of the programs are competitive for admission these days, so it is something to explore in advance. Our school has visitation days for middle schoolers and even some weekly summer camps, where the students get to try out the various options, so it's worth looking into now.

And, as Pen mentioned, if a student is on an IEP, they can extend graduation until age 21. In my son's case, that may look like doing four years of regular high school and then doing a two-year vocational program after that. We haven't determined that for sure yet, but it is an option. And the school is required to help parents and student figure out post-grad plans if they have an IEP, so at his IEP meetings, we are now talking about what he would like to aim for as a career and how the school (and community organizations the school is connecting us with) can help him achieve those goals.

I mention this because you said that your son's maturity lags in some areas. This is very common for kids with ADHD and other issues. Having a couple of extra years of support from the school before launching into adult life may end up being important for my son, because he is not likely to go to college and will need to be ready to work.

I don't know if your son would qualify for an IEP through your school, but you might find that there are supports available that you were unaware of. You can ask to meet with the special education coordinator to discuss these kind of things. We met with several high schools when my son was still in sixth grade, because we wanted to plan ahead and see what services could be offered.

I know I haven't given ideas for managing the TV, which is your topic question. I like some of the ideas mentioned by others and may adopt some of them myself.

 

I don't know exactly where OP lives, but IME vocational school isn't really an option in Iowa the way it is in other places.  They have MORE integration with community colleges, but less alternative school options than other states we've lived.  Though IME the Iowa education agencies can sometimes be a bit better at finding a diagnosis than private providers, and they are good at getting referrals to the right specialists if they need more information.

[Katy]

I wouldn't bother with stuff that plugs into the wall.  You don't have to be that smart to unplug whatever the TV is plugged into and plug it back in without that timer.  My overly controlling stepdad tried that when I was a tween.  Even the 5 year old understood how to get around it.

[KrissiK]

I have no advice, just hugs. I have an extremely difficult one. One for whom punishment does not work. I understand your feelings about being reactive and wanting to be proactive because I have been there and am still there at times. I understand the helplessness that you feel and the frustration when people give you advice that “works for them” and there must be something wrong with your parenting because this kid is out of control.

I guess one thing I would say is don’t punish the rest of your kids to try to control the one. I wouldn’t get rid of electronics if the rest don’t seem to have a problem. As much as I hate electronics, too, the rest of the kids are suffering because of this kids’ behavior anyway. 

[HS Mom in NC]

Several thoughts on this thread:

Punishment as the OP describes only works with kids capable of thinking ahead relatively long term and controlling impulses.  Whether or not the 14 year old in question is developmentally and cognitively capable of that depends on the underlying issue(s.)

Screens aren't necessary unless they're a tool for household income.  If the screens are more trouble than they're worth by causing serious family dynamic issues in the household that the OP is primarily responsible for and affected by, the OP's husband needs to fully support the OP in getting rid of them if she decides to try that.  It's absolutely outrageous for the husband to insist on keeping them when they're causing such problems. A very blunt conversation with him is appropriate. (Assuming that's what's going on, I might be misunderstanding his role.)

Large families often require group dynamics more so that smaller families that can individualize more. That may mean the other kids in the family might not get have screens in order to preserve the family dynamics. Before people get upset about that, groups have to do what works for the whole, and the children will be freed up from screens to do all the fun things those of us in large families did when we didn't have screens.  I didn't have a tv for a few years in the mid-late of my elementary years.  My brothers and I had a great time after the initial few days adjustment just like all our ancestors did.  Remember, in addiction situations, often the entire household of an alcoholic stops consuming alcohol in the house and in the presence of the recovering alcoholic.  That's a loving thing to do, not punishment for everyone else.

The OP has a lot of licensed medical professionals involved in the son's case, so others should be wary about diagnosing medical conditions online.

Homeschooling isn't only about relationships.  States legalized homeschooling because they accepted the argument that parents could provide the academics equivalent to K-12 public school.  If that isn't happening because one child requires so much attention from the teaching parent that other children suffer academically, it's time to discuss and implement major changes that solve that problem.  That kid may need to go to school while the others are homeschooled or all the other kids might need to go to school and that kid stays homeschooled.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I have two young children who, at points in their life, have CONSUMED our lives with medical appointments.  Multiple weekly trips to a doctor three hours away, one way, by train.  Surgeries, emergencies, etc.  

I think there have been many great suggestions in this thread, but not necessarily people who are in that medical tunnel of survival.

I suggest you get rid of the TV.  Tell your husband, THIS IS NOT PERMANENT!  This is to simply REMOVE one conflict, for a brief (in the long-term sense) period of time, while you get through these medical hurdles with your other kids.  It's just one less thing to fight about.   Work on this particular self-regulation problem with the ds when you have the mental and physical energy to do so, and that is not now.  I don't believe set screen limits will work- it will just bump the conflict back 45 minutes or whatever, until it's time to turn it off.  I don't believe earning or losing screen time will work- it will just lead to endless attempts at bargaining and a near constant state of conflict.  I don't believe isolating the ds will work, because he will feel the "unfairness" very keenly.  

Older or more responsible children who can handle screens need to have very strict rules in place- screen must be PW protected, and mom must have that PW written down somewhere, but not ds.  Screens must not be used around ds- after his bedtime of when he is out of the house.  

Of course it's not "fair" to others in the house to be denied screens.  But families, even siblings, sacrifice for each others' health and safety.  Let your other kids vent about this from time to time, and give them nothing but understanding and sympathy when they do so.  But don't budge.  

Just set this problem aside for a year.  Just one year.  Then come back and re-evaluate where everyone is.  I'm sure your DH can get screen entertainment in another way for this limited amount of time.  

[Ellie]

A friend of mine would have tomato-staked one of her children if he had behaved this way. The child would always be within reach of either an adult or a much-older sibling, so that there would never have been an opportunity for the child to do screens (or whatever else was forbidden to him). The child might even sleep in the parents' bedroom if his waking up alone in his room would have given him the opportunity to do whatever was challenging him.

[shawthorne44]

Add me to those that say get rid of the TV.   Yes, it is annoying.  A quantity of screen-time re-writes kid's brain to a detectable extent.  Then you add in the screen fixation with this child.   
 

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I wanted to add:  Removing the TV/screens also eliminates decision fatigue for you/DH on this issue.  There simply is no alternative, "just this once", "has he earned it", "is this one time an exception"?  No decision fatigue.  That's a huge win for you.

[AmandaVT]

Ugh, this is so hard, I'm sorry! 

Is he watching cable or pulling up netflix or something similar? If it's the latter, something like Circle may work. We have one and it is really neat, you can decide which devices go with each account. So in our house, my laptop and phone are on the "Amanda" account in circle, DH's laptop and phone are on the "DH" account and DS's ipad and laptop are on the "DS" account. The apple TVs are on "Home". I can set each account up to have it's own controls and time limits - so DH and I are set to be unregulated and I have DS's ipad set up to restrict, for instance, his angry birds time to only when I allow it. On his laptop, he can access Beast Academy whenever he wants, but PBS kids is limited to 30 min a day. For the TV's, I can choose which hours to lock them down or allow access. You can also give rewards and extend screen time when you want/need to. And at any time, you can log into the app and press "pause" on any or all of the accounts, which will lock them down. 

[Pen]

23 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

The screen is a constant source of fighting.  I'm being very reactive - he gets the pleasure of flipping it on and having a bit of time to watch before getting busted.  I want to be proactive.  DH *really* doesn't think we need to get rid of the television in the living room because of one person.  I agree somewhat.  I think in theory we shouldn't have to - no one else has an issue.  But this is beyond a tv problem to a serious character issue - worthy of getting rid of the tv.


So now what?

 

Every family I know that has gotten rid of TV from their homes has, after a difficult adjustment period, told me that they ended up replacing tv with activity that led to feeling happier and sometimes healthier.  

[HomeAgain]

9 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Every family I know that has gotten rid of TV from their homes has, after a difficult adjustment period, told me that they ended up replacing tv with activity that led to feeling happier and sometimes healthier.  

I had to stop and think really hard.
We did without tv for two years...ish.  I mean, tv got rid of us. The satellite channel (coordinates?) changed and going up on the roof to change the dish direction wasn't going to happen.
What did end up happening was a combination of occasionally buying a movie or show season on Itunes.  It turned out that tv was important to us a little.  DH watched the Super Bowl online.  We still snuggled together with holiday programs we really enjoyed and wanted our kids to be able to enjoy.  We had a night each week where we watched a show episode together.  Most of our time was, yeah, spent reading, doing things with friends, or playing family games.  It did increase that.
Then we moved, and we stuck with basic channels and Netflix.  Netflix for the occasional show, the basic channels for two reasons: Super Bowl 🙂 and emergencies.  Sirens would go off in the middle of the night and the tv was the fastest way to find out what was going on.  We'd hit the power, turn it up, and go into emergency mode if warranted.

I don't know, given our family culture, if we could ever do without it completely.  I think it is a hard decision to make.  I know that our kids did end up with some culture shock due to lack of exposure to any mainstream tv for a while.  So there is that to take into consideration some, too. 

[ktgrok]

Also, for what it is worth, my DS seemed addicted to screens. We found that the screens were the symptom, not the root problem. Addressing his depression and getting him into other better activities stopped the screen issues. 

[SKL]

I agree that it's hard to ask the other 8 kids to give up something because of a behavior issue in the 9th kid.  It's not comparable to a food allergy which can be explained to the others as life threatening.  I could see it creating resentment and conflict.

Honestly, the more I think about this, the more I think you should just let it go when he is unsupervised - just assume and accept that he is going to watch the TV.  A couple of hours one day won't ruin his life.  Sounds like there are enough controls in place most of the time.

Edited December 19, 2018 by SKL

[Pen]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

A couple of hours one day won't ruin his life.  Sounds like there are enough controls in place most of the time.

 

If that’s true, I agree with you.  It sounded to me like a frequent distressing conflict though, not a rare situation for a couple of hours .  

 

[Kebo]

6 hours ago, Katy said:

I wouldn't bother with stuff that plugs into the wall.  You don't have to be that smart to unplug whatever the TV is plugged into and plug it back in without that timer.  My overly controlling stepdad tried that when I was a tween.  Even the 5 year old understood how to get around it.

 For what it's worth, the electronic controller that I linked above has a lock box on the bottom where the TV is plugged in.  You couldn't plug the TV directly into an outlet without having the key or destroying the box.  

 

[kiwik]

On 12/19/2018 at 7:32 AM, moonflower said:

Don't give away the tacklebox.  He is addicted and he is a child.  If your husband were an alcoholic, you wouldn't keep a bottle of wine on the table at dinner and a case of beer in the fridge and then sell his nice stuff when he can't help it anymore and drinks it.

If I were you, I'd get rid of electronics.  No one needs them.  Many generations of kids grew up fine, and adults entertained themselves fine, without TV, much less tablets.  Just don't own them.

This.  He knows you will be livid and punish him this way and he knows his siblings will tattle on him and he will be caught.  The present lure of the TV and the positive feedback it gives is stronger than his ability to change his behaviour.  I would suggest he is not ready to be left at home to do work and next time needs to go with you or your husband.  

[Liz CA]

Kelly, I just wanted to give you a virtual hug. I have mostly followed your challenges and I continue to be surprised how you handle everything.

This must be so, so hard without a 14yo with ADHD / other ? issues. I totally get being mad beyond words. It probably feels he is exploiting the whole situation knowing that you have so much on your plate right now.  I am not trying to diagnose him here but I sort of liked the suggestion of earning screen time. Is this something you think you can implement? 

[kiwik]

Have read the rest now.  You may have to let things go a bit while you deal with other stuff.

[Paige]

I have a challenging child and can sympathize. 

Some thoughts- Public school may be a better option than you think. My child had OCD issues which are not unlike an addiction. I could not provide the supervision needed to make sure he didn't drift into OCD-ing all day when we homeschooled. It was a constant struggle. At school, they provide the supervision for 8 hours a day. DS is kept on task by being around other people. He hates it. Of course he'd rather be home and doing his OCD thing in peace, but it's been a relief to the rest of us and I think it has been good for him. Academically, he'd definitely have been better off with me, but I think sometimes other things are more important. FWIW, we never informed the school of his OCD- if we had, I'm sure there would be more supports. I think I may actually go ahead and tell them because I trust them more now. 

Siblings- I recommend not turning his siblings into babysitters or informers. It is damaging,  IMO, to their relationships with each other. I imagine their relationship is already not so good because it can be hard, but I think love within the family is the most important thing.

Priorities- Mental health is the most important thing for him right now. I have determined for my family that I'd rather have a happy kid with peace in his heart who fails school, lives at home forever because of who knows what issues, and who struggles to keep a job than have a stressed, suicidal, anxious, angry kid who looks perfect on the outside. Once the DC are in a good place mentally, we can work on life skills, academics, etc. Maybe they take longer to launch or never go as far as we'd dreamed, but they are alive. We can't make them want what's best for them but we can be the safe place. I'm very fearful about kids who look great on the outside and are very compliant and who have struggles that we can't see- those are the kids where nobody sees suicide or self destruction coming before it's too late. I'd much rather have a kid who will show me the struggles so I can be there to help and when I see they are happy and successful, I can know it's not a facade.

I would probably let him have the screens when he is unsupervised right now. He needs to know that if he doesn't do his schoolwork then he may fail the school year. That's his problem, not yours. There may be other life consequences for not making good choices- maybe he'll have to go to public or private school if he won't do school at home. Maybe he'll be poor because he can't manage his time in a few years to allow an outside job with school. Maybe failing a year and being poor is what he needs to decide to change for himself. Maybe he will never learn- but if that's the case, nothing you do now will make much of a difference. The difference will be what is your home life like while he's with you- stressed because you are stressed about controlling him or peaceful because he's allowed to make his own mistakes? 

I know...it's hard to balance control/love/peace/siblings. For me, and I don't have as many kids as you and my DS is older, I am moving towards reducing my expectations and controls and letting him live his life. I have the luxury of outsourcing a lot of the controls and consequences to the school, however, which has been a relief. 

In your case, I think your DC may be more stressed than usual because of your health issues. He may seem less able to self regulate because he's worried about you and needs some distraction, plus he is getting less attention because of everything going on, and 14 is such a hard time for some boys no matter what's going on! 

[SKL]

That really is a good point - your son without the TV on might be unable to turn his focus from medical worries to school work.  It's easier to let TV distract one from those worries.

It might be worth while to sit down and discuss what would be some good things to watch on TV vs. just outright banning it when you are not there.

[Pen]

@BlsdMama  With so much you are having to be dealing with, I don’t want to suggest adding a book to read.  I do want to suggest that you look at this quote from the description of the book that I hope link feature will let me link below. I added the bold type.  

 “Brain imaging research is showing that stimulating glowing screens are as dopaminergic (dopamine activating) to the brain’s pleasure center as sex. And a growing mountain of clinical research correlates screen tech with disorders like ADHD, addiction, anxiety, depression, increased aggression, and even psychosis. Most shocking of all, recent brain imaging studies conclusively show that excessive screen exposure can neurologically damage a young person’s developing brain in the same way that cocaine addiction can.”

He may have brain problems from the concussion.  And he may have additional brain problems from the screens themselves.  

The book is focused on current technology.

In addition, when I was in school, I observed some science experiments involving the regular TV of that era and animals—where it was quite clear that the TVs were having an effect (generally negative) on the animals’ behavior even though the animals probably had no idea of the content of the programs they were exposed to.  

Glow Kids book

[Pen]

PS. I frequently can’t link since even before the forum update.  I said a little prayer that if God wanted you to have that link it would work today.

[forty-two]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

Glow Kids book

The link didn't work for me, but I think this is the book you were talking about: Glow Kids by Nicholas Kardaras.  The descriptions match.