goldberry Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) Curious how this will play out. https://www.npr.org/2018/12/02/672643776/neil-degrasse-tyson-responds-to-claims-of-sexual-harassment Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson has responded to recent allegations of sexual misconduct by posting a lengthy statement online, in which he denies wrongdoing and says he welcomes an impartial investigation by the producers of his show Cosmos. Three woman have come forward with accounts of experiences with Tyson that disturbed them, according to the website Patheos. His response: https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/on-being-accused/10156870826326613/ Edited December 3, 2018 by goldberry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Yeah, who knows? I kind of don't think much about the tattoo one, I think if you have a visible tattoo, chances are people will look at it. Obviously the rape claim is completely horrible if true. It sounds like he isn't really saying the dinner didn't happen. I don't know, if that was accurate I'd have said he was hoping to get lucky but is really pretty lame at romance. Middle aged pudgy science guy changing into a tank top to seduce co-worker sounds like some kind of spoof movie. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I just read the NPR article and what he did was creepy in a sad kind of way. Like a very socially awkward guy trying to use someone else's pickup lines. But I wonder .... what if she had been interested in him romantically, would that have played out differently? What he said about not hiring her--- not cool - sexist in the extreme. But, it also made me think of something I heard on "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" just last night. There was an exchange between two of the star panelists. Male and female. She has an English accent and said something about making Ham Hocks in an Instant Pot. The other panelist said something along the lines "The way you said Ham Hocks turns me on." Eewww.... but she laughed. So, I'm thinking... "okaaaay... she's fine with that exchange." Then it went on to an exchange between her, this guy, and the announcer (Bill Curtis) all saying dinner things: "Roast Beef." ... "With Trimmings" all done in a suggestive manner. Ha ha ha... um...no.. eewww... I thought it was terribly inappropriate given today's climate. I was a bit shocked that it went on for several minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Bluegoat said: Yeah, who knows? I kind of don't think much about the tattoo one, I think if you have a visible tattoo, chances are people will look at it. Obviously the rape claim is completely horrible if true. It sounds like he isn't really saying the dinner didn't happen. I don't know, if that was accurate I'd have said he was hoping to get lucky but is really pretty lame at romance. Middle aged pudgy science guy changing into a tank top to seduce co-worker sounds like some kind of spoof movie. You said that way better than I could have ever done. Yeah, I agree it came across as someone who doesn't really know how to romance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I've been thinking about this since I first read it last night. If I say (and I do) that we need to believe the women, I don't get to decide we only believe the women when they accuse men whose public persona (because I don't know them privately) I dislike. So this really bothers me in two ways. One - Oh no, not another one! Two - on a more personal level as I grapple with not wanting to believe it of someone like him whom I really admire professionally. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 The incident with the tattoo bothers me because, like Dr. Aller's says, it shows that he doesn't respect female bodily autonomy. I would never just start grappling with a person's body to better see their tattoo.. I would ask, "Can I see you tattoo?"... "Does it have Pluto?? Where?" I would put that along the lines with touching a pregnant woman's belly without permission... no, just no... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livetoread Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 The whole awkward wine and cheese/tank top thing would have been fine, IMO, except he was her boss. If you are in a position to influence someone’s career, especially if they work for you, then I’m sorry, no wine and cheese/tank top seductions for you. The tattoo thing wasn’t okay, but wasn’t awful. The rape, yes, awful. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonflower Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, livetoread said: The whole awkward wine and cheese/tank top thing would have been fine, IMO, except he was her boss. If you are in a position to influence someone’s career, especially if they work for you, then I’m sorry, no wine and cheese/tank top seductions for you. The tattoo thing wasn’t okay, but wasn’t awful. The rape, yes, awful. He's married! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, livetoread said: The whole awkward wine and cheese/tank top thing would have been fine, IMO, except he was her boss. If you are in a position to influence someone’s career, especially if they work for you, then I’m sorry, no wine and cheese/tank top seductions for you. The tattoo thing wasn’t okay, but wasn’t awful. The rape, yes, awful. Um, I actually think someone looking under my dress to try to see a covered tattoo without my permission would be pretty darn awful. Way outside the realm of OK social behavior. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 he has always struck me as arrogant, so this kind of fits with that impression. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Ktgrok said: he has always struck me as arrogant, so this kind of fits with that impression. Thank you. I thought it was only me who thought that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easypeasy Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I used to follow him on facebook and actually stopped ... maybe over a year ago? Some of his comments were surprisingly masochistic and sexist. He would post some oddly off-color "jokes" that... just weren't funny or appropriate for his "official" page, imho. So, I unfollowed and whenever I've seen him since then, I get an uncomfortable feeling in my gut. So reading these stories didn't surprise me all that much, but still bummed me out... I'm always rooting for the geniuses out there to not be creepers. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSharon Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 3 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said: Thank you. I thought it was only me who thought that. Count me in too 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Bluegoat said: Yeah, who knows? I kind of don't think much about the tattoo one, I think if you have a visible tattoo, chances are people will look at it. NM Edited December 3, 2018 by QueenCat Learned more about issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 8 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said: Thank you. I thought it was only me who thought that. I've not been able to take him very seriously since he made such silly comments about philosophical thought being useless because it didn't achieve anything. He's kind of full of himself for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 9 hours ago, Ktgrok said: he has always struck me as arrogant, so this kind of fits with that impression. Yes this was my thought. His explanations sound reasonable enough but I’ve always found his personality a little off putting anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) oops double post Edited December 3, 2018 by Ausmumof3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 It's interesting to see who is consistent with their stance on these situations. (His twitter account is full of responses from people now saying that "believe women" was maybe not the right tack and "listen to women" is SO much better. To which half of America says, "No duh. Thanks for catching on.") I agree with him about the importance of evidence, but I'm being consistent because I had the same point of view with Kavanaugh and any other situation where I wait for information to come out. But the most disturbing (that may be too strong of a word) aspect of his response is the clear implication that when it comes down to he said-she said without real evidence that people will side with the person who is most credible...with the clear implication that somehow he is more credible. At least it felt that way to me. And I also find him to be arrogant so I'm not sure what he's basing his idea of being credible on. If it's because he's a scientist who believes in reason and naturalism/materialism, well I guess his weird little spiritual handshake throws that out the window a bit. Unless, of course, it was actually just a weird little come on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faith-manor Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Dh and I met him after a lecture at one our ds's universities. I don't know the man, but the first impression was NOT good. He was quite condescending to me and to our daughter when we asked questions, but all Mr. Wonderful to Dh and the boys. He made my misogyny metre go "BING BING BING". But I have know idea if he is guilty of the accusations. None at all. I just know that I don't have a favorable impression of the man despite having been impressed with his scientific contributions. It is a little surprising how many professional people do not know how to act professionally. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, Faith-manor said: Dh and I met him after a lecture at one our ds's universities. I don't know the man, but the first impression was NOT good. He was quite condescending to me and to our daughter when we asked questions, but all Mr. Wonderful to Dh and the boys. He made my misogyny metre go "BING BING BING". But I have know idea if he is guilty of the accusations. None at all. I just know that I don't have a favorable impression of the man despite having been impressed with his scientific contributions. It is a little surprising how many professional people do not know how to act professionally. Yes, I've never met him but in Q&A sessions I've seen, he is very condescending. That kind of person, the accusations may not be true, but they don't surprise me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 I always remember reading about how Einstein was a crap family man. A person can be truly smart or admirable in one area of their lives, and still be a crap person in other areas. People are complicated and it's not a good idea to put anyone up on a pedestal. It's fine to admire certain aspects of a person, but especially with famous people we know so little about the whole. I remember talking about this with DD when Hannah Montana was becoming Miley Cyrus. You can like someone's singing, or performing, or acting... that doesn't mean they are a person to emulate or admire in other areas. People who put someone on a pedestal feel angry or betrayed when they turn out to just be a flawed or even bad human. Tyson has done a lot to make science interesting and accessible, which I admire. I obviously don't know if these accusations are true or not, but certainly not impossible. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livetoread Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 15 hours ago, moonflower said: He's married! Yes, so he shouldn’t have been coming on to anyone, but I see that as a different issue from harassment. I think by coming on to his assistant he was harassing her which compounds the wrongness of coming on to anyone else when you are married. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I totally believe the Ashley Watson story. If anything I think his version of it just increases my belief in hers, because I've had similarly cringey encounters with men who were in a position of authority over me, and I have no doubt their "version" of the event would be similar to his. I would not be at all surprised to hear there are other employees with similar stories. The tattoo thing is more borderline for me. It sounds like he looked under the shoulder strap of a sleeveless top to see if the solar system tattoo continued there. Definitely shows an inappropriate lack of boundaries, but I wouldn't consider it sexual assault or harassment. Plus it sounds like this was just someone who asked to take a photo with him, not someone he had any power over, so there was no threat or pressure implied. I could easily imagine him doing the same thing to a guy who asked to take photo, seeing a solar system tattoo on his arm and pushing up a shirt sleeve to see if Pluto was there. I would file this one under "clueless lack of boundaries" not "creeper." I have no idea about the rape allegation, as I haven't read her version, and his response says that her claim of being drugged and raped is based on what she assumes must have happened since she doesn't remember that night. Also, the woo-woo stuff (channeling "vibrational energy" from orbiting planets through colored tuning forks???), if true, makes her seem less believable to me. He has always struck me as rather full of himself, although I like his work and generally agree with his politics. The Ashley Watson story and the tattoo story seem totally in character to me. I have a harder time imagining him actually drugging and raping someone; he seems like the kind of person who thinks too highly of himself to "stoop" to that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 I think the same of this as I do of the Kavanaugh accusations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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