Help me think through car purchase

[cintinative]

My dh's car (Civic) is 18 years old and has over 200K miles on it so we are looking to get a used car to replace it.  My car is a 2004 CR-V.

We go on long road trips (two days driving each way) every summer and the CR-V is starting to get pretty cramped for us, so we had thought about getting a van. We are usually gone two weeks.

What I am wondering though is if it would it make sense to just get him another smaller sedan (civic or accord) and use the savings to rent a van when we travel.  He said we would end up "needing" the van for transporting teens and such as we are getting to that phase of life. The CR-V will only seat five people, and the back seat is tight with three across. 

For those of you who have been there with teens, what do you think? We have two kids aged 11 and almost 13.

What says the hive?  

Edited August 7, 2018 by cintinative

[Junie]

I would absolutely not get a van with two teenagers.

We have a van out of necessity (look at my signature) and it is a gas-guzzler.  The money that you save in gasoline alone would likely pay to rent a van for your vacation.

[cintinative]

14 minutes ago, Junie said:

I would absolutely not get a van with two teenagers.

We have a van out of necessity (look at my signature) and it is a gas-guzzler.  The money that you save in gasoline alone would likely pay to rent a van for your vacation.

 

I didn't even think of the gas usage! That's a great point.

[Kassia]

Our minivan is a gas guzzler, too, and we only drive it if necessary because of the expense.  DH wants to get rid of it because we hardly ever use it but it's so handy when we need to transport everyone (we only have one kid left at home but my older kids and their girlfriends do visit often) or for moving kids into apartments/dorms or for vacations.  

[regentrude]

We have traveled long distances with two teenagers/young adults very comfortably in a Honda Accord. I see no need for a van

Edited August 7, 2018 by regentrude

[Bambam]

I had a van for years. I actually hated the van because they are no fun to drive, and they do have lower gas mileage than our sedan.

However, I'd do it all over again in a heart beat. Vacations were so much more pleasant with two teens (2.5 years apart, both normal height girls) who weren't sitting so close together and everyone could have their backpack near without it getting in anyone's way - and we had a small cooler between them filled with snacks/drinks (easy access). 

And I hauled many kids around for years. We'd stop and pick up other teens and take them to lunches, meetings, parties, field trips, parks, adventures, whatever. It is so much more fun to go with friends (some of whom might not have been able to go otherwise) than just alone. Ah - the singing that would happen near Christmas - and other times when there was a super popular song on (anyone remember What Does the Fox Say? (You are welcome for that ear worm!)). We took plenty of kids many places. Sometimes the talk-talk-talking drove me crazy, but I did enjoy the opportunity to hear what the kids were talking about. 

My oldest has left home, so we have a sedan now. So, I can haul two extra teens somewhere - three if they don't mind being squished a little in the back seat. But it isn't as nice as the van. 

But I have my manual transmission back, so there is no way I'm going to switch that to drive a van! 

So, I definitely vote van if you are thinking that you might want to haul around friends in addition to your kids. 

[wintermom]

We have a van because we have 4 dc and we need something big enough to transport us all. We'd have a smaller car if we didn't need the van. 

It doesn't sound like you need a van year-round. Just rent a larger vehicle for your annual road-trip. 

And your dh is probably correct in that you will be driving more miles with teens, but you won't necessarily be carrying more bodies and gear. You can still transport 5 people in a mid-sized sedan, as you'll have the front seat. I've found that the older the dc get, the more they are doing activities at different times and places. So it's rare that the whole family is going to the same activity on a regular basis. That leaves more space for car-pooling with other people involved in the specific activity.

I'd go for economy of travel rather than largr size of vehicle.

Edited August 7, 2018 by wintermom

[cintinative]

16 minutes ago, regentrude said:

We have traveled long distances with two teenagers/young adults very comfortably in a Honda Accord. I see no need for a van

 

We are really tight in the CR-V mostly because generally we have to bring so much stuff. We usually have air beds, blankets/sheets, plus all our pool/beach stuff, plus our clothes, snacks/drinks and a huge box of food (DS12 has Celiac). I don't think our amount of packing is very typical. That said, I think we can still get one of those tray things that hang off the back of the car that you can strap luggage/gear to for the CR-V. There are no rails up top so we can't use a top carrier (whatever those are called now). 

[regentrude]

7 minutes ago, cintinative said:

We are really tight in the CR-V mostly because generally we have to bring so much stuff. We usually have air beds, blankets/sheets, plus all our pool/beach stuff, plus our clothes, snacks/drinks and a huge box of food (DS12 has Celiac). I don't think our amount of packing is very typical. That said, I think we can still get one of those tray things that hang off the back of the car that you can strap luggage/gear to for the CR-V. There are no rails up top so we can't use a top carrier (whatever those are called now). 

We traveled in the Accord with four people for 4-6 weeks trips, and our luggage included full rock climbing and backpacking gear and food. Everything fit nicely into the very roomy trunk, except for a small personal item and snacks for each passenger

ETA: The Accord trunk beats any other sedan we ever had. It's way bigger than the one in DH's Acura TL.

Edited August 7, 2018 by regentrude

[cintinative]

3 minutes ago, regentrude said:

We traveled in the Accord with four people for 4-6 weeks trips, and our luggage included full rock climbing and backpacking gear and food. Everything fit nicely into the very roomy trunk, except for a small personal item and snacks for each passenger

ETA: The Accord trunk beats any other sedan we ever had. It's way bigger than the one in DH's Acura TL.

 

Wow! I had no idea.  What year of accord do you have? They change the styles a lot.

[cintinative]

So without any coupons or really price shopping, one of our local car rental places (online) is estimating two weeks with a mini van at $1063.96. 

How do I work out the math with this?  Cost saved from buying sedan versus van + cost saved on gas/year (less vacation)=cost savings divided by how many years?? We generally drive our cars into the ground. Do you think we'll save $1064 a year in gas alone?

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

For those of you who have been there with teens, what do you think? We have two kids aged 11 and almost 13.

 

My boys are 12 and 13 (both December babies) and they are hitting the roof of our Corolla. Our Corolla has a generous trunk so it is a sitting height issue. 

We thought of getting a Sienna/Odyssey/Highlander to replace the Corolla as I don’t drive so one car is adequate. My neighbor has a CRV and an only child, their trunk is full with her work (high school teacher) and his sports equipment. They do have a roof rack so it helps for road trips. Her husband drives a Honda Civic for work.

We do road trips regularly and we find renting a Sienna off peak ($350 per week) to be cheaper than owning a minivan for daily work commute. The Sienna with the 3rd row down provides us with nice trunk space and less cramped sitting arrangements. However the gasoline cost and parking in tight places are negatives to use a minivan as our day to day vehicle. Many older malls we go to have lots more parking lots for compact cars than minivans. 

My friend who likes to drive on mountain roads for road trips has a Honda Pilot for its higher towing capability than the Odyssey. They like Honda and were choosing between the Odyssey and Pilot because they need to sit six to seven people often (three generations).

Our Corolla is listed as 28mpg on city roads and 18mpg is what is listed for the Sienna. So the 10mpg difference makes a big difference for daily work commute (7 miles each way). 

ETA:

DS13’s sitting height is about 90cm.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Arcadia

[Pen]

How about an Accord with roof rack? And maybe one of those hard shell carriers for it? You could have 5 people and a lot of gear that way, but still usually good economy, when that’s not needed  Does Accord come in a wagon version for the years you are considering? Then you might be able to get in even more people  

 

 

[regentrude]

26 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Wow! I had no idea.  What year of accord do you have? They change the styles a lot.

2006

[Junie]

23 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So without any coupons or really price shopping, one of our local car rental places (online) is estimating two weeks with a mini van at $1063.96. 

How do I work out the math with this?  Cost saved from buying sedan versus van + cost saved on gas/year (less vacation)=cost savings divided by how many years?? We generally drive our cars into the ground. Do you think we'll save $1064 a year in gas alone?

My dh has the numbers crunched in a spreadsheet somewhere.  I'll try to remember to ask him later.

[kbutton]

We thought it might be nice to be able to haul kid friends, but we've not needed to. We do have extra gear for trips--food (and sometimes cookware) due to food allergies, etc. We stopped packing in luggage a long time ago--we found that moderately-sized backpacks with empty outside pockets pack much better and take up less room. 

If your kids and trip gear can fit into a sedan that gets decent gas mileage, I'd go for a sedan. Also, unless things have changed a lot, you might look at sedans with roomier trunks--we drove a Buick for years, and my parents did as well. They didn't match our old Corolla for gas mileage, but they were much closer to Corolla gas mileage than mini-van mileage! They also got good highway mileage. We found that Buicks tend to have really good trunk space and leg room, and their backseats usually accommodate an extra person without much squishing. Sometimes the front seat can take a third person as well. We also found our Buicks were one-owner, maintained impeccably, and lower mileage if we bought them used--usually from an older person or estate sale. 

I am wondering if there are comparison tools for card models and leg-height-luggage space. I have two boys that need serious leg and foot room--size 11 feet that are likely to grow a little more, super long legs, projected to be very tall kids and are very much on track for it. My DH who is average height has the leg length of someone six inches taller--in less than two years, neither of my boys is likely to be able to sit behind him in our Volvo because DH has to have his seat back so far, and one of those kids is only 10 right now.

[73349]

32 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So without any coupons or really price shopping, one of our local car rental places (online) is estimating two weeks with a mini van at $1063.96. 

How do I work out the math with this?  Cost saved from buying sedan versus van + cost saved on gas/year (less vacation)=cost savings divided by how many years?? We generally drive our cars into the ground. Do you think we'll save $1064 a year in gas alone?

You need to know about how many miles you drive in a year and make a guess about the average price of gas per gallon over the time frame you'll own it. You should also check on whether there's a difference in the insurance rate.

I did a quick search and found a minivan for more like $700 a week, before the AAA discount, but you might consider whether the cost of a rental is likely to increase over time as well.

[sgo95]

In terms of renting a van, for the last few years, we've been able to rent a Toyota Sienna for 3 weeks for $800-$1000 (we used Costco).

[Scarlett]

I didn't read the replies but I will tell you in a few short years your teens will probably have their own cars and be in the car with you and your dh very little.  I remember basing my car purchase on these two boys and I could not tell you the last time either rode in our vehicle. 

[cintinative]

3 hours ago, sgo95 said:

In terms of renting a van, for the last few years, we've been able to rent a Toyota Sienna for 3 weeks for $800-$1000 (we used Costco).

 

It is so great to know I can get it cheaper than the $1000 for two weeks. I had heard Costco was cheaper. Was this off peak? We usually travel in June.

 

[cintinative]

 

My husband's car will be replaced with either my CR-V or a new to us sedan (aka. Accord). His car currently uses premium gas. 

I will either replace my CR-V with a van or keep it.  According to dh, I put about 12,000 miles/year on my car including the road trip.

So in the end we will end up with a CR-V and a sedan or a CR-V and a van.  

He's not sold on the "we'll save the cost of the rental in gas" idea (if we get an accord to replace his civic).  At 12,000 miles per year he is saying the fuel economy doesn't make that big of a dent.  Thoughts?

 

 

[Bambam]

5 hours ago, regentrude said:

We traveled in the Accord with four people for 4-6 weeks trips, and our luggage included full rock climbing and backpacking gear and food. Everything fit nicely into the very roomy trunk, except for a small personal item and snacks for each passenger

ETA: The Accord trunk beats any other sedan we ever had. It's way bigger than the one in DH's Acura TL.

Wow - We have a 2011 and 2013 Accord trunk. No way we could get all that stuff in there.  That said, our 2014 Toyota Camry's trunk is larger than either of the Accords. And all are bigger than the Mini's! ?

 

[skimomma]

6 hours ago, cintinative said:

 

We are really tight in the CR-V mostly because generally we have to bring so much stuff. We usually have air beds, blankets/sheets, plus all our pool/beach stuff, plus our clothes, snacks/drinks and a huge box of food (DS12 has Celiac). I don't think our amount of packing is very typical. That said, I think we can still get one of those tray things that hang off the back of the car that you can strap luggage/gear to for the CR-V. There are no rails up top so we can't use a top carrier (whatever those are called now). 

 

I can't speak to all of your questions but we recently bought off-brand rails for our old CR-V for $130.  Amazon, I believe.  Then we installed a used box.  All of our camping gear can be crammed in up there.  They also make soft car top carriers that do not require rails.

 

[sgo95]

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

It is so great to know I can get it cheaper than the $1000 for two weeks. I had heard Costco was cheaper. Was this off peak? We usually travel in June.

We rented in June as well.

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

He's not sold on the "we'll save the cost of the rental in gas" idea (if we get an accord to replace his civic).  At 12,000 miles per year he is saying the fuel economy doesn't make that big of a dent.  Thoughts?

Our '09 Odyssey averages 20 mpg and our '01 Accord averages >30 mpg.  So that's over a 10 mpg difference, which means our van consumes at least 200 more gallons of gas every 12,000 miles, which is $500-600 a year if gas costs $2.50-$3.00/gallon where you live.  But it's not just the gas difference each year.  The Odyssey costs at least $6000 more than a comparably equipped Accord (at higher trims, the cost difference is bigger, like $7-8k).  If you're financing the vehicle, the cost difference will be even more.  

Here's a google spreadsheet that helps to work through the numbers a little.  You can adjust the assumed numbers in bold to play with the difference scenarios. I'll delete it later: 

 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XhXMyHSawHKgNt8hM9M5QHUWtfs9R4ypova9eYTvado/edit?usp=sharing

HTH.

Edited August 7, 2018 by sgo95

[Junie]

Dh said that our van gets about 12 mpg (15 mpg on the highway).  He just looked up a newer van (2018) and the numbers were not much improved.

Our car (a Nissan) gets about 33 mpg.

12000/15mpg = 800 gal.

12000/33mpg = 364 gal.

800-364= 436 extra gallons x 2.50/gal = $1090 more

 

[wintermom]

14 hours ago, cintinative said:

He's not sold on the "we'll save the cost of the rental in gas" idea (if we get an accord to replace his civic).  At 12,000 miles per year he is saying the fuel economy doesn't make that big of a dent.  Thoughts?

When you're driving so little, why do you need 2 vehicles at all? You'd save a ton more by only having 1 vehicle.

[lmrich]

You can also add a hitch to your CR V and put a luggage holder there. https://www.amazon.com/Highland-1042000-Hitch-Mounted-Carrier/dp/B003NBFKDK/ref=sr_1_7?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1533731554&sr=1-7&refinements=p_n_format_browse-bin%3A491459011

I would keep the CR V (I would keep the other car too for when your boys need it) and not get a van. But go look at different used cars. I brought my kids with me and my big crate that I take to work to make sure it could fit. I was surprised what did not work. 

[AngieW in Texas]

I would not get a van when you are really only needing it for vacations. Like many of the others I would just rent a van for vacations. The convenience of having small cars is absolutely worth it for me. You also have to consider what cars you are going to use to teach your kids to drive. You're just three years out from your oldest reaching driving age. And just two years out from being old enough for a learner's permit.

[cintinative]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

When you're driving so little, why do you need 2 vehicles at all? You'd save a ton more by only having 1 vehicle.

You are right of course, but I do need to drive my kids to co-op, the orthodontist, youth group, and take my mom to appointments, etc. Trying to drop my husband off and pick him up every day is inconvenient, and he would not be happy to be stuck at work. First world problem for sure.

[jewellsmommy]

16 hours ago, cintinative said:

 

My husband's car will be replaced with either my CR-V or a new to us sedan (aka. Accord). His car currently uses premium gas. 

I will either replace my CR-V with a van or keep it.  According to dh, I put about 12,000 miles/year on my car including the road trip.

So in the end we will end up with a CR-V and a sedan or a CR-V and a van.  

He's not sold on the "we'll save the cost of the rental in gas" idea (if we get an accord to replace his civic).  At 12,000 miles per year he is saying the fuel economy doesn't make that big of a dent.  Thoughts?

 

 

CRV and sedan looks like a better savings for you.

You're not just saving gas. If you rent a van for the vacations, you're saving mileage/wear on your main vehicle. Whatever mileage you would be driving is adding wear to the systems and tires, necessitating additional oil changes and less time between tire purchases etc . So that should be factored in too. 

[cintinative]

Thanks everyone! We have a Honda mechanic we really trust and he encouraged an Accord or Civic over the Odyssey also. 

Now to convince dh . . .