If you saw this at a scout camp...

[almondbutterandjelly]

I'm struggling with the "dressing like a boy" at camp part.  What does this consist of?  Camp clothes are generally t-shirts and shorts.  What would someone who is dressing like  a boy at camp wear that was not t-shirts and shorts?  I can't think of any "boy clothes" that would also not be perfectly normal "girl clothes" in camp attire.  Longer shorts?  Girls wear those.  I'm baffled.

[shawthorne44]

 

The only one that would bother me is #4 where she covered the camp printing with the rainbow.   There is something so In Your Face about covering up what was originally on the T-shirt.  It seems rude and showoffy.   If it been a t-shirt with a rainbow printed on it, I'd have never noticed.   

 

[Laurie]

51 minutes ago, bodiesmom said:

These girls were very happy and quite popular, not that I think it matters. They led most of the campfire skits and even helped teach some of the classes. Again,just painting the picture and trying to clear up any assumptions or questions

If a random older girl (as in #4) is putting a pride display over the camp t shirt logo then I'd assume it was a form of protest.

 If she and the other rainbow girls are teaching classes and leading activities it sounds like a concerted effort to "subvert from within".  

[bodiesmom]

Here's my issue...

AHG is promoting themselves as a Christian scouting organization and all that entails. 

These girls were very much so making a statement with their actions and their clothing. The girl who was dressing as a boy is the camp director's daughter. One of the leaders who referred to her hat as the "pride hat" was her mother, the camp director. 

My particular issue is the hypocrisy that is being displayed. Either AHG is a Christian organization with specific beliefs as painstakingly outlined in their handbook, or it is not. Personally, it doesn't matter to me whether they are or they are not. We joined for different reasons. We will continue regardless of their stance. 

Does that make more sense?

My most sincerest apologies for not being clear. It wasn't my intention to be vague or present what some thought was a hidden agenda. I've had a very rough night and am operating on little sleep (see my other "camp" post)

 

[Lady Florida.]

I tried not to comment on this thread because as many here know I'm not Christian (or any religion) and I don't have a daughter. When my son chose a scouting group he chose one that didn't discriminate against religion, gender identity, or sexuality. But...

 

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I'm not sure that I understand the purpose of the thread.  Is it so that you can decide what to think for yourself?  Is it so that you can decide whether you should do or say something? 

I confess I wondered too.

 

58 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

Well, I'm with Jean, I am never comfortable with threads that are posted with hidden agendas. I really prefer for people to explain the point without trying to do surveys and fact gathering to support whatever the real agenda is - even if it's a situation in which you are trying to figure out how to do something positive about it...

That said, I have to disagree with those who are so concerned about nobody ever flouting rules that judge and exclude. If nobody ever did that, the Jim Crow laws would still be in place. Somebody had to go sit at the lunch counter, even if a lot of people were hauled out in handcuffs or whatever. Somebody has to be gay at church camp, even if the powers that be decide to send them home or the gossips want to shame them. Those who break rules in an effort to advance civil rights are aware of potential consequences and prepared to pay, if it helps to open doors down the road.

Others prefer to work for change in other ways. Maybe by not going to a church camp that has some pronouncement upon their very existence and welcome, for example. But I don't think it's for other people to decide how people in minority groups choose to fight for equality, as long as they are not breaking the law. (Church camp rules are not laws.)

Such threads also usually bring out the snark in people, more so than straightforward ones.

In order to change organizations there has to be a few things that happen. One is that some people have to quit or refuse to join. Others need to stay and work for changes from within. 

 

1 hour ago, scholastica said:

But, if you join a group with rules, no matter how antiquated, you should follow them or be ready to be asked to leave. If someone joined an LGBTQ+ group and came in wearing something with an anti-LGBTQ+ message, they'd probably be asked to leave. I have no dog in this fight. I think that groups have rules, and if I don't agree, I don't join. It's ok for them to have rules, it's okay for me not to join. Why should she get to flout the rules? She can fight to change them, but should follow them until they are overturned.

Sometimes to change the rules you have to flout them. See the above quote. As she often does, Tibbie said it best.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm afraid to answer your other thread. ? I don't want to seem ungentle.

I don't know a gentle way to say that you've fallen in with a group that has ugly exclusionary attitudes as policy, but who will look the other way when it's the leadership's kids breaking that policy, and who will condemn others for their sexual identity while allowing a potential sexual molestation of a child to occur in their unsupervised Christian camp (for which matter I would be calling the police, and I would be beyond done with this organization).

[Pen]

This thread is First I knew rainbows had a special meaning. 

[bodiesmom]

1 minute ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:

I'm afraid to answer your other thread. ? I don't want to seem ungentle.

I don't know a gentle way to say that you've fallen in with a group that has ugly exclusionary attitudes as policy, but who will look the other way when it's the leadership's kids breaking that policy, and who will condemn others for their sexual identity while allowing a potential sexual molestation of a child to occur in their unsupervised Christian camp (for which matter I would be calling the police, and I would be beyond done with this organization).

Tibbie, I think you nailed it on the head. I'm shaking right now. 

It it not my intention to put AHG in a negative light, as I know not all troops are this way. However, I am really struggling with what has transpired over the last week. 

Thank you for this 

[skimomma]

4 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

Sometimes to change the rules you have to flout them. See the above quote. As she often does, Tibbie said it best.

 

Yes.  Perhaps these girls have the position that one can be gay AND Christian and would like to see an organization they love be more inclusive.

[Lady Florida.]

24 minutes ago, scholastica said:

The difference is that this is a private, voluntary group. Those were unjust laws. If I think someone's group has unjust rules, I don't join. I don't join and then flout the rules. 

There's nothing wrong with trying to change the rules of a private, voluntary group. That's what happened in Boy Scouts. Some people disagree with those changes but they appear to be in the minority or BSA wouldn't have changed.

[SKL]

I agree that it seems hypocritical for a leader to be endorsing a pride display at AHG scout camp.

I guess if you feel strongly about it, you could report it up the chain - I suspect the founder etc. would not be pleased and might clarify some guidelines.  The troop might cease to exist or a completely new leadership team might be chosen.  I dunno, I've never been a scout leader, but that seems logical.

I am not clear on whether this is the same camp as the one your camp #2 post references.  I assume not since the latter is so much more extreme than this post.

 

[Pen]

By the way, @bodiesmom is your screen name supposed to sound like Bodhi’s Mom. Or like the plural of body mom?

[shawthorne44]

5 minutes ago, bodiesmom said:

Here's my issue...

AHG is promoting themselves as a Christian scouting organization and all that entails. 

These girls were very much so making a statement with their actions and their clothing. The girl who was dressing as a boy is the camp director's daughter. One of the leaders who referred to her hat as the "pride hat" was her mother, the camp director. 

My particular issue is the hypocrisy that is being displayed. Either AHG is a Christian organization with specific beliefs as painstakingly outlined in their handbook, or it is not. Personally, it doesn't matter to me whether they are or they are not. We joined for different reasons. We will continue regardless of their stance. 

Does that make more sense?

My most sincerest apologies for not being clear. It wasn't my intention to be vague or present what some thought was a hidden agenda. I've had a very rough night and am operating on little sleep (see my other "camp" post)

 

 

You posted this at the same time as I was posting.   It changes my stance.   I'd assumed (wrongly) that there wasn't an agenda with the clothing.  
It would have been nice if all the girls at camp couldn't have just had the identity of an AHG girl without setting themselves apart as more special.  

[bodiesmom]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

By the way, @bodiesmom is your screen name supposed to sound like Bodhi’s Mom. Or like the plural of body mom?

the first ?

 

[Lady Florida.]

13 minutes ago, bodiesmom said:

Here's my issue...

AHG is promoting themselves as a Christian scouting organization and all that entails. 

These girls were very much so making a statement with their actions and their clothing. The girl who was dressing as a boy is the camp director's daughter. One of the leaders who referred to her hat as the "pride hat" was her mother, the camp director. 

My particular issue is the hypocrisy that is being displayed. Either AHG is a Christian organization with specific beliefs as painstakingly outlined in their handbook, or it is not. Personally, it doesn't matter to me whether they are or they are not. We joined for different reasons. We will continue regardless of their stance. 

Does that make more sense?

My most sincerest apologies for not being clear. It wasn't my intention to be vague or present what some thought was a hidden agenda. I've had a very rough night and am operating on little sleep (see my other "camp" post)

 

The bolded bothers me. As a former Christian I know that not all Christianity involves discrimination against LGBTQ.  

As for the leader's kid being allowed to flaunt rules, that would bother me if other girls were reprimanded for doing the same thing (flouting any rules, not necessarily the same rules). If not, maybe those parent leaders are also trying to change things from within. 

[bodiesmom]

1 minute ago, Lady Florida. said:

The bolded bothers me. As a former Christian I know that not all Christianity involves discrimination against LGBTQ.  

As for the leader's kid being allowed to flaunt rules, that would bother me if other girls were reprimanded for doing the same thing (flouting any rules, not necessarily the same rules). If not, maybe those parent leaders are also trying to change things from within. 

Lady Florida, try not to read into it. What I meant by that statement was everything AHG outlines in their handbook, and I didn't want to type it all out. ? 

[SKL]

Wondering why on earth the parents chose AHG if they were against the whole premise of AHG's existence?  There are other options.

I mean this is like making the menu beef and pork at a vegetarian club's banquet.

[skimomma]

4 minutes ago, SKL said:

Wondering why on earth the parents chose AHG if they were against the whole premise of AHG's existence?  There are other options.

I mean this is like making the menu beef and pork at a vegetarian club's banquet.

 

The problem with this thinking is that in many cases, AHG would have been chosen for the girls before they were old enough to have an opinion or understand their own identity.  Once they become teens, they have likely been involved in the organization for years and love many/most aspects of the experience.  As they become aware of their own opinions and perhaps come to the conclusion that the group's rules are discriminatory, I believe it is well within their right to try to change an organization that they have seen benefit from.

Now you have the adults who may be torn between their obligations as leaders and supporting their own children.  I don't know the answer.  If I were in that position, being a leader with a gay kid or a kid who felt strongly that the groups discriminatory policies were worth protesting, I would likely step down as a leader and support my kid.  But, even if I supported the discriminatory policies, I would be in quite the difficult position.  Even if I don't agree with my child, I will always support her right to protest and attempt to change things she sees as wrong.  That is a difficult place to be in and I'm not sure there is a "right" answer.  Perhaps the leader is in that position and it waiting for another part of the leadership to address this with her kid?  We can only speculate unless the OP knows more about that aspect of the situation.

[Dmmetler]

1 hour ago, jdahlquist said:

I am wondering what it would be at camp that would make me think a girl was "obviously dressing like a boy"--if there is a camp t-shirt, that would leave shorts (or these boy's shorts, I know some girls who do that because they find the pockets larger and they want to be able to carry a wallet in their pocket instead of a purse), socks, shoes, and perhaps a hat?   

Or that it is easier to find boy's shorts that are long enough to meet the camp's dress code.

[HomeAgain]

You ask what I think.

I think I'd focus on the lack of Christianity of those around her, and anyone indulging in the gossip or cutting down of this girl would have a much bigger problem with the Christian focus of the scouting than the girl herself.  They would not be people I'd seek out for my own companions, given their behavior.

[Ravin]

Wathe, they are talking about an AHG camp, not a GSUSA camp. Read the other posts in the thread that talk about the org.

I honestly wouldn't be there to observe in the first place, since I'm one of those people. ?

[bodiesmom]

14 minutes ago, skimomma said:

 

The problem with this thinking is that in many cases, AHG would have been chosen for the girls before they were old enough to have an opinion or understand their own identity.  Once they become teens, they have likely been involved in the organization for years and love many/most aspects of the experience.  As they become aware of their own opinions and perhaps come to the conclusion that the group's rules are discriminatory, I believe it is well within their right to try to change an organization that they have seen benefit from.

Now you have the adults who may be torn between their obligations as leaders and supporting their own children.  I don't know the answer.  If I were in that position, being a leader with a gay kid or a kid who felt strongly that the groups discriminatory policies were worth protesting, I would likely step down as a leader and support my kid.  But, even if I supported the discriminatory policies, I would be in quite the difficult position.  Even if I don't agree with my child, I will always support her right to protest and attempt to change things she sees as wrong.  That is a difficult place to be in and I'm not sure there is a "right" answer.  Perhaps the leader is in that position and it waiting for another part of the leadership to address this with her kid?  We can only speculate unless the OP knows more about that aspect of the situation.

This is what I've been pondering as well. What a difficult position to be in. 

I don't know anything about that aspect of the situation. 

Again-my beef is with the hypocrisy that is being displayed. Either be all inclusive, or not. Don't "preach" one side while "supporting" the side you are preaching against, for lack of a better way to put it. 

[AmandaVT]

I was helping out with dinner at a friend's church last night - very conservative Christian youth camp. The leaders had an impromptu "crazy sock" contest - the girl who won overwhelmingly had rainbow socks on. 

It wouldn't occur to me that it would be a big deal anywhere and no one blinked at rainbow socks last night. There were also plenty of tomboys, "feminine" looking boys and I didn't overhear any comments, snarky or otherwise, from the adult crowd helping serve dinner. 

My church has a pride flag out front and had a great pride service a few weeks ago, so it would be totally fine at our upcoming kids camp.

[bodiesmom]

40 minutes ago, bodiesmom said:

but who will look the other way when it's the leadership's kids breaking that policy, and who will condemn others for their sexual identity while allowing a potential sexual molestation of a child to occur in their unsupervised Christian camp

I'm quoting one of Tibbie's responses to reiterate the crux of my struggle. 

My apologies for making this so confusing. Thank you for helping me clarify my thoughts on this.

[SKL]

16 minutes ago, skimomma said:

 

The problem with this thinking is that in many cases, AHG would have been chosen for the girls before they were old enough to have an opinion or understand their own identity.  Once they become teens, they have likely been involved in the organization for years and love many/most aspects of the experience.  As they become aware of their own opinions and perhaps come to the conclusion that the group's rules are discriminatory, I believe it is well within their right to try to change an organization that they have seen benefit from.

Now you have the adults who may be torn between their obligations as leaders and supporting their own children.  I don't know the answer.  If I were in that position, being a leader with a gay kid or a kid who felt strongly that the groups discriminatory policies were worth protesting, I would likely step down as a leader and support my kid.  But, even if I supported the discriminatory policies, I would be in quite the difficult position.  Even if I don't agree with my child, I will always support her right to protest and attempt to change things she sees as wrong.  That is a difficult place to be in and I'm not sure there is a "right" answer.  Perhaps the leader is in that position and it waiting for another part of the leadership to address this with her kid?  We can only speculate unless the OP knows more about that aspect of the situation.

I think it's fine for them to be themselves, but it's another thing for them to demonstrate against a tenet of the organization, and their leader parents should tell them that.  There are other places to display gay pride.

Would you be in favor of a family going to a Muslim kids' activity and trying to convince them that Christianity is better, or that they should eat pork?  No.  A Christian would not be in the Muslim organization to begin with.  If the person converted while a member, the person would leave.  If there was an activity they did not want to leave until they graduated or whatever, they would follow the rules and not make waves.

Further, it sounds like this kid is getting away with this because of who her parent is in the organization.  That makes it more problematic IMO.  The parent supposedly agreed not to promote this kind of thing in the context of AHG.

[bodiesmom]

1 minute ago, AmandaVT said:

I was helping out with dinner at a friend's church last night - very conservative Christian youth camp. The leaders had an impromptu "crazy sock" contest - the girl who won overwhelmingly had rainbow socks on. 

It wouldn't occur to me that it would be a big deal anywhere and no one blinked at rainbow socks last night. There were also plenty of tomboys, "feminine" looking boys and I didn't overhear any comments, snarky or otherwise, from the adult crowd helping serve dinner. 

My church has a pride flag out front and had a great pride service a few weeks ago, so it would be totally fine at our upcoming kids camp.

But see, that is different. Your church is presenting themselves as a community that supports the LGBTQ community, so members are fully aware of what they can expect. They aren't presenting as one thing, and then acting as another.

[AmandaVT]

Just now, bodiesmom said:

But see, that is different. Your church is presenting themselves as a community that supports the LGBTQ community, so members are fully aware of what they can expect. They aren't presenting as one thing, and then acting as another.

 

Two different churches - my example of rainbow socks was at my friend's church, which is quite conservative and many of the kids are in AHG or Trail Boys (I can't remember the other one). 

[bodiesmom]

8 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

 

Two different churches - my example of rainbow socks was at my friend's church, which is quite conservative and many of the kids are in AHG or Trail Boys (I can't remember the other one). 

Ah got it. That makes more sense. 

Rainbow socks in isolation isn't the issue here (my daughter has a pair). I mentioned that in an attempt to paint a complete picture and I'm failing miserably at it. ? 

[skimomma]

13 minutes ago, SKL said:

I think it's fine for them to be themselves, but it's another thing for them to demonstrate against a tenet of the organization, and their leader parents should tell them that.  There are other places to display gay pride.

Would you be in favor of a family going to a Muslim kids' activity and trying to convince them that Christianity is better, or that they should eat pork?  No.  A Christian would not be in the Muslim organization to begin with.  If the person converted while a member, the person would leave.  If there was an activity they did not want to leave until they graduated or whatever, they would follow the rules and not make waves.

Further, it sounds like this kid is getting away with this because of who her parent is in the organization.  That makes it more problematic IMO.  The parent supposedly agreed not to promote this kind of thing in the context of AHG.

 

First, "gay pride" and protesting a policy are two different things.

Second, there is a big difference between walking into an organization with full knowledge that you disagree with the very premise of its foundational principles and growing up within an organization which you may cherish but grow to find one aspect of it troubling.  And being an idealistic teen, thinking you may be able to do something to change it.  I would parallel this with being Catholic but at some point coming to the conclusion that you think women should be allowed to be priests and advocating for that.  You are still Catholic and agree with all other aspects of the religion, but seek to change this one thing. 

Third, I agree that if a kid is breaking the rules and only getting away with it because her parent is the leader, there is a problem.  However, it sounds as though more than one kid is "breaking the rules" and none are getting in trouble.  Although I fail to see how dressing as a boy or wearing rainbows is breaking any specific rule unless AHG has rules that state, "you must dress in girl clothing (whatever that is) and never wear anything with rainbows on it."  Which I doubt is true.  I am struggling to come up with the wording of a rule that would attempt to forbid "sympathetic to gay people" clothing.  It is frankly, ridiculous, since I could argue just about any clothing item could be twisted to be "sympathetic to gay people."  

[Tanaqui]

Given your other camp post, I'd think you have more important things to worry about.

[bodiesmom]

Just now, Tanaqui said:

Given your other camp post, I'd think you have more important things to worry about.

Agreed!

To clarify-I'm not worried. I think it is my attempt to divert my attention away from what is really eating me up

I'm sorry. 

 

[Tanaqui]

Well, that makes sense. Hyperfocusing on minor issues when stressed is pretty common, I should think.

Though as a general piece of advice, I suggest trying to find something else to focus on. People don't like it when you overly scrutinize their clothes, much less their children's clothes. All these rainbow clothes and that one girl "dressed like a boy" might just be stylistic choices. Or they might be trying to hold onto a fun thing from childhood even though that fun thing wants to push them away. You don't know, you really can't know at this point, so the best thing is to find another way to busy your mind.

[katilac]

 

1 hour ago, bodiesmom said:

Lady Florida, try not to read into it. What I meant by that statement was everything AHG outlines in their handbook, and I didn't want to type it all out. ? 

 

That's fine, but I for one am not going to get any further in understanding without additional information. I went to their site and it says that any biological girl that is willing to live by the Oath and Creed is welcome to join. The Oath and Creed say absolutely nothing about being gay or gender non-conforming or anything else. Purity is expected, but that doesn't exclude LGBTQ. They don't even say you have to be Christian, but of course many Christian churches and groups embrace the LBGTQ community. So, by their own words, rainbows would not be a problem. 

I also remained baffled at how a girl is obviously trying to "dress like a boy" and "send a message"  while at a camp where it sounds like people are wearing t-shirts and shorts. I have a girl who often dresses in standard boy attire, and the only time I think that's it's obvious she is trying to dress like a boy is when she is in full suit-vest-tie mode. I mean, most boys wear shorts, jeans, shirts, and tennis shoes. None of those items are glaringly 'boy' in the way a non-kilt skirt, dress, or flowered blouse are for the 'girl' category. I own a lot of men's t-shirts, but I am not trying to dress like a man, I simply buy what I like. 

A better title for your thread would be, "AHG moms, what would you think if you saw this at AHG camp?" It doesn't do any good to ask those of us who would never have our kids at that camp, because we are, first, very unlikely to even notice, and second, even less likely to care. So you're going to get a ton of irrelevant-to-you responses. 

[Tanaqui]

Quote

They don't even say you have to be Christian, but of course many Christian churches and groups embrace the LBGTQ community.

 

My only regret is that I have but one like to give to this comment.

[wathe]

1 hour ago, Ravin said:

Wathe, they are talking about an AHG camp, not a GSUSA camp. Read the other posts in the thread that talk about the org.

I honestly wouldn't be there to observe in the first place, since I'm one of those people. ?

Yep, figured it out.  I was thrown by the thread title, I think.  "Scouts" here has a narrower meaning,  would be interpreted to mean Scouts (as in Scouts Canada or internationally, WOSM groups).  That would not include any other  youth organizations,  religious or not.  Wouldn't even imply Girl Guides.

Edited July 25, 2018 by wathe

[katilac]

Just now, wathe said:

Yep, figured it out.  I was thrown by the thread title, I think.  "Scouts" here has a narrower meaning,  would be interpreted to mean Scouts Canada,  that would not include any other  youth organizations,  religious or not.  Wouldn't even imply Girl Guides.

 

That is also how Americans would interpret it, Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. We don't see "scouts" and think of AHG or Campfire Kids or Spiral Scouts. 

[bodiesmom]

5 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Well, that makes sense. Hyperfocusing on minor issues when stressed is pretty common, I should think.

Though as a general piece of advice, I suggest trying to find something else to focus on. People don't like it when you overly scrutinize their clothes, much less their children's clothes. All these rainbow clothes and that one girl "dressed like a boy" might just be stylistic choices. Or they might be trying to hold onto a fun thing from childhood even though that fun thing wants to push them away. You don't know, you really can't know at this point, so the best thing is to find another way to busy your mind.

Did you read all the posts? 

I WAS NOT FOCUSING ON THE CLOTHES! 

I clarified in an earlier post....this is NOT ME questioning clothing choices, the use of the stupid rainbows, not even the LGBTQ community. That was MERELY an example of my frustration over the extreme HYPOCRISY of a group claiming one thing and seemingly promoting another thing. I have NO personal issue with it. I was listening to conversations regarding this among other leaders and parents and thought....hmmmm. I wonder what the hive thinks. They are an intelligent group of individuals who can separate out the emotional issue and see the discussion for what it truly is. 

Stop. Remove the assumptions. Remove it all and see the discussion as it was. 

 

[wathe]

4 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

That is also how Americans would interpret it, Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. We don't see "scouts" and think of AHG or Campfire Kids or Spiral Scouts. 

I didn't recognize the AHG acronym.  I don't think AHG exists here - at least I have never heard of it.

 

[bodiesmom]

12 minutes ago, katilac said:

I also remained baffled at how a girl is obviously trying to "dress like a boy" and "send a message"  while at a camp where it sounds like people are wearing t-shirts and shorts. I have a girl who often dresses in standard boy attire, and the only time I think that's it's obvious she is trying to dress like a boy is when she is in full suit-vest-tie mode. I mean, most boys wear shorts, jeans, shirts, and tennis shoes. None of those items are glaringly 'boy' in the way a non-kilt skirt, dress, or flowered blouse are for the 'girl' category. I own a lot of men's t-shirts, but I am not trying to dress like a man, I simply buy what I like.

Assumptions. I give up. Just know that I absolutely agree with this.

 

13 minutes ago, katilac said:

A better title for your thread would be, "AHG moms, what would you think if you saw this at AHG camp?" It doesn't do any good to ask those of us who would never have our kids at that camp, because we are, first, very unlikely to even notice, and second, even less likely to care. So you're going to get a ton of irrelevant-to-you responses. 

 

Good point. I see the error of my ways. However, they weren't irrelevant to ME. Believe it or not, they confirmed what I was already thinking. We're more alike than you are allowing yourself to believe. (based on these posts alone)

[katilac]

3 minutes ago, wathe said:

I didn't recognize the AHG acronym.  I don't think AHG exists here - at least I have never heard of it.

 

 

 

Hah, no, because it's American Heritage Girls. 

[Tanaqui]

No, I didn't - and if that's your concern here then I really am confused. How does a camper's personal clothing choice represent the camp? Unless the camp has a uniform, the clothing of the campers cannot be construed to be a camp-endorsed message.

[bodiesmom]

47 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

No, I didn't - and if that's your concern here then I really am confused. How does a camper's personal clothing choice represent the camp? Unless the camp has a uniform, the clothing of the campers cannot be construed to be a camp-endorsed message.

I quit. I'm not going to try and explain this any further. 

[madteaparty]

5 hours ago, katilac said:

 

That is also how Americans would interpret it, Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. We don't see "scouts" and think of AHG or Campfire Kids or Spiral Scouts. 

I had to google it. So many places one’s kids don’t belong ?

Op, you’ve clearly been infiltrated by rainbow sock wearing teens. Better nip that in the bud real quick. No safe places anymore....

[bodiesmom]

43 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

I had to google it. So many places one’s kids don’t belong ?

Op, you’ve clearly been infiltrated by rainbow sock wearing teens. Better nip that in the bud real quick. No safe places anymore....

and you wonder why conversations shut down. 

read.the.ENTIRE.thread.