DawnM Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 ARGH! Why does this phrase send me into a tizzy? Why do you say you are sorry, when you are not sorry in the least, slightest little bit. If you have to follow with a BUT, you are not sorry. If you are so confident that you are correct, don't couch it with "I'm sorry" before you speak. I have a friend who constantly does this. Rant over...... 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egao_gakari Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Yep, it's like the folks who said "No offense" in middle school grew up and got the memo that the words were rude but never quite grasped that it's actually the principle that's the problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I don't watch a whole lot of Dr Phil, but the episodes I have seen have stuck with me. I've heard him say that "But" means, "ignore everything else I just said, I'm about to tell you what I really think..." Every time I hear BUT in that context I think of him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 It depends on the context. Sometimes it is, "I'm sorry that you have to hear this," or, "I'm sorry to have to tell you this." Usually within the context of bad news. That is how I most often hear to used. "I'm sorry but your pet iguana will need that surgery after all." "I'm sorry but I lost your favorite pot holder." Etc...... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 It probably none of my business but... 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, skimomma said: It depends on the context. Sometimes it is, "I'm sorry that you have to hear this," or, "I'm sorry to have to tell you this." Usually within the context of bad news. That is how I most often hear to used. "I'm sorry but your pet iguana will need that surgery after all." "I'm sorry but I lost your favorite pot holder." Etc...... Yeah, I rarely hear it that way. It is usually an, "I'm sorry, but you are wrong!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 This is one of my pet peeves. My kids will tell you that I constantly rant over this. At one point they had a highly charismatic "friend" who turned quite toxic. This was a favorite phrase of his-"No offense, but...." "I'm sorry but...." "I don't mean to be rude but" --said right before he verbally ripped someone apart. I think my constantly pointing out that when some starts with "no offense but" meant that he was going to be offensive. They tended to want to believe that "his heart was right" bc he didn't "mean to be mean". Helping them see what Dr. Phil said about the but helped them to see the *true* heart. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavender's green Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I'll add "I'm sorry you feel that way" to the list. I guess there are contexts where it might be okay, but usually it's said in a really self-righteous, not-gonna-apologize way. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 It may be different for your friend who uses it habitually, but I think it has meaning. It means hey, this is a situation where I believe I need to speak truth even though it's not going to be pleasant to hear. There are many times when the truth is healing but uncomfortable at the same time. I guess to me it's shorthand for "I love you, I care about your feelings, but you need to hear this anyway." But yes, some people probably use it without feeling the sentiment it implies. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanin Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Katy said: I don't watch a whole lot of Dr Phil, but the episodes I have seen have stuck with me. I've heard him say that "But" means, "ignore everything else I just said, I'm about to tell you what I really think..." Every time I hear BUT in that context I think of him. I saw that one, too! And it’s stuck with me all these years as well. I just read a book about how women unintentionally sabotage their careers (or personal lives) by using wishy-washy language like that. If you’re gonna disagree with someone, just disagree! It’s not the worst thing in the world. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Totally depends on the context. "I am sorry, but that time will not work for me." "I am sorry, but I won't be able to make your party." "I am sorry, but I cannot give you more points for this exam." What's wrong with either of these? I am genuinely sorry, but that does not change the facts I am relating afterwards. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Threads like this always leave me bemused. If I made a list of every single word or phrase that someone mentioned as being annoying, grating, or frustrating on all these threads, there wouldn't be anything left to say. Maybe that's the goal though. Some blessed silence away from all the noise. I really can't get worked up about every little thing that people say. I'm sorry but I'm just too busy. ? 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanin Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, regentrude said: Totally depends on the context. "I am sorry, but that time will not work for me." "I am sorry, but I won't be able to make your party." "I am sorry, but I cannot give you more points for this exam." What's wrong with either of these? I am genuinely sorry, but that does not change the facts I am relating afterwards. True ? but with your examples, you really are sorry, versus: “I’m sorry, but do you really still watch Dr. Phil?” Haha. Ya know, where the “I’m sorry” is just an introduction to something unnecessarily rude/hurtful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 That's where the confusion comes in. Sometimes, "I'm sorry, but...." is a necessary statement. You are sorry, but whatever follows is necessary. The OP is complaining about people who say things like "I'm sorry, but that dress is hideous, you look like a bag lady" or "I'm sorry, and I know it sounds mean to say this, but $NAME is so annoying, I can hardly stand to be around here, can you?" or "I'm sorry, but you're just not smart enough to understand this". It's taking an insult and trying to camouflage it in manners. The end effect makes everything sound ever so much more insulting than if the rude person had just said what they meant without the buffer. If that sounds like something out of a teen drama about mean girls and cliques, that's because I cribbed these examples from MG fiction on bullying. #sorrynotsorry 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I don't necessarily get annoyed, but there are words and phrases that I consider utterly "empty". One example comes to mind immediately is " I don't mean to interrupt" - well....then don't! or you just did it anyway! So, either don't interrupt or don't say that you didn't mean to do it. In general, I think people use a lot of words that add nothing and mean very little 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 59 minutes ago, regentrude said: Totally depends on the context. "I am sorry, but that time will not work for me." "I am sorry, but I won't be able to make your party." "I am sorry, but I cannot give you more points for this exam." What's wrong with either of these? I am genuinely sorry, but that does not change the facts I am relating afterwards. The first two are fine, but are a different context than the OP is talking about. The third is a result of us treating teachers badly. No teacher should feel sorry about a student not getting more points. If they genuinely tried their best and didn't get enough points for the desired grade, the student should be able to handle and it tell themselves they earned every point they did get and they don't need a teacher's apology. If the student didn't try their best and didn't get enough enough points for the desired grade, the student should do some self-reflection and doesn't need the teacher's apology. It makes me cringe when teachers feel the need to apologize to students or parents when they're just doing their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said: The third is a result of us treating teachers badly. No teacher should feel sorry about a student not getting more points. If they genuinely tried their best and didn't get enough points for the desired grade, the student should be able to handle and it tell themselves they earned every point they did get and they don't need a teacher's apology. If the student didn't try their best and didn't get enough enough points for the desired grade, the student should do some self-reflection and doesn't need the teacher's apology. It makes me cringe when teachers feel the need to apologize to students or parents when they're just doing their job. "I am sorry" does not mean "I apologize". I am genuinely sorry when a student does not reach the goal he has set for himself. I do not apologize for it, as it is not my fault - but I am sorry. It is an expression of sympathy, not an admission of guilt. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Quote It makes me cringe when teachers feel the need to apologize to students or parents when they're just doing their job. In normal American society, we say sorry when we are inconveniencing others, even if it's not our fault and there's nothing to be done. So you "cringe" when the guy at the DMV says "I'm sorry, but you don't have the paperwork you need" or the cashier at the store says "I'm sorry, but I really can't take $.99 instead of $1" or a bus driver says "Sorry, I can't let you on without the correct fare"? Those people are just doing their jobs too. Are certain professions exempt from little social niceties? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Just now, regentrude said: "I am sorry" does not mean "I apologize". I am genuinely sorry when a student does not reach the goal he has set for himself. I do not apologize for it, as it is not my fault - but I am sorry. It is an expression of sympathy, not an admission of guilt. Right, but I'm not sure most Americans see it that way. And from what I hear from my teacher friends, plenty of parents expect it as an admission of guilt for what they perceive as a mismanagement of a classroom situation. I think we'd all be better off being clearer by reserving it for apologies, instead of the very common usage to preface an insult, or to stoke a male co-worker's ego. It really does carry a whole lot of baggage for many people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I hear it used in the context of "I am sorry that this is upsetting for you BUT this is the regulation / rule / law.... It expresses empathy that another person is upset but also explains why it can't be avoided. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 21 minutes ago, Tanaqui said: In normal American society, we say sorry when we are inconveniencing others, even if it's not our fault and there's nothing to be done. So you "cringe" when the guy at the DMV says "I'm sorry, but you don't have the paperwork you need" or the cashier at the store says "I'm sorry, but I really can't take $.99 instead of $1" or a bus driver says "Sorry, I can't let you on without the correct fare"? Those people are just doing their jobs too. Are certain professions exempt from little social niceties? But that only applies if you view neutral information as not being nice. When my birth certificate I had on hand didn't meet the adoption requirements, I didn't think my social worker needed to couch it with, "I'm sorry, but...." All she said was, "This birth certificate isn't the one we need, we need the one with state seal on it, and this is a hospital seal. You can have a new one overnighted if you to the government website at......." All of that was perfectly nice. It was the information I needed and it was delivered pleasant tone of voice. I see stating pleasantly what the correct fare is as perfectly fine. No need for an I'm sorry, but... I was at DMV getting a new driver's license and the lady working there was perfectly nice when she explained to several people that they needed more documentation than they brought. No I'm sorry, but....She just told them pleasantly what they needed and told them when their slowest days and hours were in case they wanted to get out faster next time. It was all very nice and helpful. And she hadn't inconvenienced them, they didn't bother to look it up before they came in or read the posted sign or the pamphlet on the desk before they engaged with her. Same with the fare. If the fare is posted then it's not inconveniencing anyone to expect to be paid that amount before getting on. If they didn't read it and pay accordingly, it's on them. Now no one has to be mean about it, it can pleasantly pointed out what the correct fare is, but classifying that as the person collecting the fare inconveniencing the person paying it is completely backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I do think it softens the unpleasantness when a person says "I'm sorry [to have to tell you this truth]" in several of the situations mentioned in comments above. There is nothing technically wrong with just stating the fact, but sometimes it can come across like "tough sh!t for you." Sometimes it's nice to know the other person can understand / relate to the disappointment. Besides that, some people are jerks and if you don't placate them, they might act out. I've seen that too. So if I'm a bus driver or whatever, I'm going to say "I'm sorry but" just to keep things warm-ish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I don’t want to question your parenting but... I’m not racist but... I don’t mean to be rude but... There’s a pattern here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I don't think sorry is an admission of guilt. We say "I'm sorry" as a condolence or just an expression of sympathy all the time. Often when there's nothing we can do but sympathize. My kid: "My horse was so uncooperative today, I didn't have a good ride." Me: "I'm sorry." Acquaintance: "I have such a backache today." Me: "I'm sorry." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, SKL said: I do think it softens the unpleasantness when a person says "I'm sorry [to have to tell you this truth]" in several of the situations mentioned in comments above. There is nothing technically wrong with just stating the fact, but sometimes it can come across like "tough sh!t for you." Sometimes it's nice to know the other person can understand / relate to the disappointment. Besides that, some people are jerks and if you don't placate them, they might act out. I've seen that too. So if I'm a bus driver or whatever, I'm going to say "I'm sorry but" just to keep things warm-ish. It just makes me madder. I think it is rude. It doesn't soften anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Well ... I guess you can't please everyone. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said: Right, but I'm not sure most Americans see it that way. And from what I hear from my teacher friends, plenty of parents expect it as an admission of guilt for what they perceive as a mismanagement of a classroom situation. I think we'd all be better off being clearer by reserving it for apologies, instead of the very common usage to preface an insult, or to stoke a male co-worker's ego. It really does carry a whole lot of baggage for many people. This leaves me wondering why it carries a whole lot of baggage for many people. In a situation like "I am sorry but that is the ugliest dress I have ever seen", it isn't really the "I am sorry" that is the problem. To focus on the phrasing "I am sorry, but..." doesn't address that issue. I have a friend who will go to pieces if someone says, "I am sorry I am running late, but the baby just popped all over the place as we were walking out the door, and I have to change him." Her response will be "It should be 'I am sorry I am running late, AND.. not BUT.'.. Dr. Phil says that ..." I do not think this would have carried any baggage for my friend if it hadn't been for Dr. Phil's statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Yeah, I think Dr. Phil is wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 2 hours ago, regentrude said: "I am sorry" does not mean "I apologize". I am genuinely sorry when a student does not reach the goal he has set for himself. I do not apologize for it, as it is not my fault - but I am sorry. It is an expression of sympathy, not an admission of guilt. Same here when I was teaching. Sometimes I was sorry because I really liked the student and wished they had been able to do better. Sometimes it was because I knew they worked hard and if I could have given points for hard work I would have. It wasn't an apology, just a statement that meant "I feel bad for you but there's nothing I can do." 2 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said: Right, but I'm not sure most Americans see it that way. I think most Americans understand the different ways we use one word. Context is (almost) everything and it's fine to say "I'm sorry, but" as an expression of sympathy or empathy. That said, I realize that Dawn is expressing frustration for a whole different kind of "I'm sorry, but". I recognize the difference between what she's saying and what other posters are saying about the same expression. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 18 minutes ago, SKL said: Yeah, I think Dr. Phil is wrong. About most things. ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 “I’m sorry but” is a useful social lubricant and politeness phrase in English. Rather like please and thank you However, it is not always the best choice. “I’m sorry, but you’re wrong.” sounds rude due to the second half of the sentence usually not being effectively lubricated by the beginning better politeness phrasing could be (note that the conditional tense “c/would “ is also politeness phrasing in English ) “I’m afraid I disagree.” The speaker would not literally be afraid, but it softens the end, and I disagree is not as combative as You’re wrong. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I’m sorry, but ? the problem in most of the bothersome examples is that the sentence that would be left minus the “I’m sorry” is itself impolite. It is like, “Please shut the f—- up, you moronic imbecile.” “Please” does not make the ending polite. “I’m sorry, but I have to tell you that your husband is dead.” A standard phrasing said by a police officer in that unfortunate situation, works for many people (though perhaps not OP) in many English speaking countries because it prepares the listener for bad news to come, and is part of the standard proper English social lexicon,with roots going way back into the language “Excuse moi, s’il vous plait, mais” could be a similar example in French Japanese is supposed to be full of politeness phrases ... Please pass the bean dip. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 hours ago, SereneHome said: I don't necessarily get annoyed, but there are words and phrases that I consider utterly "empty". One example comes to mind immediately is " I don't mean to interrupt" - well....then don't! or you just did it anyway! So, either don't interrupt or don't say that you didn't mean to do it. In general, I think people use a lot of words that add nothing and mean very little I dunno. "I don't mean to interrupt but your hair is on fire." "I don't mean to interrupt but your pet iguana is playing in the road." "I don't mean to interrupt but did you say you need directions to the iguana emergency room? I can help." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 hours ago, LucyStoner said: I don’t want to question your parenting but... I’m not racist but... I don’t mean to be rude but... There’s a pattern here. Yeah, one of my favorite quotes out of a Harry Potter books goes approximately like this: Vernon Dursley: “I don’t mean to be rude, but...” Dumbledore: “Yet, sadly, accidental rudeness occurs alarmingly often.” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SereneHome Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 5 hours ago, skimomma said: I dunno. "I don't mean to interrupt but your hair is on fire." "I don't mean to interrupt but your pet iguana is playing in the road." "I don't mean to interrupt but did you say you need directions to the iguana emergency room? I can help." That's really funny!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 11 hours ago, Danae said: All of those should be "I hate to interrupt but . . ." Or "I'm sorry to interrupt but . . ." Because you might regret it, but you still mean to interrupt. ? Technically true. However, sometimes it is hard to think when an iguana is in danger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 24 minutes ago, skimomma said: Technically true. However, sometimes it is hard to think when an iguana is in danger. Unless you live in South Florida where you'd probably be happy to see one less iguana. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/features/fl-reg-south-florida-iguana-invasive-damage-20180618-story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.