Study finds divorce is genetic. What do you think?

[Teaching3bears]

"of 20,000 adoptees, of those who got married, about 46 per cent of them went on to experience a divorce in their own relationship."

https://news.vcu.edu/article/Why_does_divorce_run_in_families_The_answer_may_be_genetics

 

 

[LucyStoner]

2 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

I thought that was the divorce rate anyway?   (I mean the divorce rate of all marriages, not just for people who have divorced parents.). Maybe I’m misunderstanding?  

The divorce rate for first/only marriages peaked at 40% around 1980 and has been declining since 2000.  AFAIK, it hovers at about 30% right now.  The statistic that 1/2 of all marriages end in divorce was gleaned by looking at all marriages.  People who have previously been divorced are more likely to divorce again.  

That said, part of the decline in divorce rates may be the decline in marriages over all.  

[SKL]

It's really interesting how many personality traits are genetic.  It would not surprise me if this included traits that weaken vs. strengthen marriage bonds.

[LMD]

Wow interesting! And slightly worrying, my parents have been married 7 times between them (to different people lol)!

[Liz CA]

14 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Ok, so the study is showing about a 15% increase in divorces for people whose parents are divorced.  Ok, that makes sense now.  

 

It makes sense to me as well but I would not call it "genetic" but rather a behavioral response learned in many cases. 

[Joker]

Oops

[LucyStoner]

7 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

It makes sense to me as well but I would not call it "genetic" but rather a behavioral response learned in many cases. 

 

The study is looking at adopted adults.  They state that their findings indicated that adult adoptees divorce risk is informed not just by their social parents, but by their biological parents, from whom they didn't learn about relationships.  

[Liz CA]

51 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

 

The study is looking at adopted adults.  They state that their findings indicated that adult adoptees divorce risk is informed not just by their social parents, but by their biological parents, from whom they didn't learn about relationships.  

 

Interesting. Would be even more interesting if we had brain studies for comparison. 

[DawnM]

I don't think it is genetic, BUT, the psychological issues with being adopted and "rejected" could certainly play a role IMO.  Most adoptions don't come from health, committed relationships of couples giving up their kids, so I would assume most are not even married.

[Liz CA]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

I don't think it is genetic, BUT, the psychological issues with being adopted and "rejected" could certainly play a role IMO.  Most adoptions don't come from health, committed relationships of couples giving up their kids, so I would assume most are not even married.

 

I would certainly expect this to be an aspect. Coping styles, resiliency and attachment style issues may be another aspect.

[Tap]

How do they know it is genetic? 

Correlation vs causation? Just because they were adopted and divorced, doesn't mean their bio-parents had anything to do with it. LOL 

[SKL]

17 minutes ago, DawnM said:

I don't think it is genetic, BUT, the psychological issues with being adopted and "rejected" could certainly play a role IMO.  Most adoptions don't come from health, committed relationships of couples giving up their kids, so I would assume most are not even married.

The article doesn't give many details, but I would assume that they would have compared kids born from both divorced couples and couples who married and did not divorce.  Otherwise I don't see how they could draw the conclusions they drew.

It does sound like a messy job though - given that there are two bio parents who may or may not have stayed together ... maybe each went on to marry someone else but stayed married ... but since it's genes they are studying, it should not matter whether the marriage(s) occurred before or after the adoptee's birth.

[SKL]

I'll also note that this is a Swedish study, and I don't know whether US cultural factors leading to adoptions are similar to those in Sweden.

[LucyStoner]

5 minutes ago, SKL said:

I'll also note that this is a Swedish study, and I don't know whether US cultural factors leading to adoptions are similar to those in Sweden.

I thought it was a collaboration between a Swedish and US Institution?  Or did you mean all their data came from Sweden?  

[Liz CA]

47 minutes ago, Tap said:

How do they know it is genetic? 

Correlation vs causation? Just because they were adopted and divorced, doesn't mean their bio-parents had anything to do with it. LOL 

 

Yes, this will always be the question. It's amazing how many scientists play fast and loose with those two words. If it's a merging of Swedish and US findings, it would be interesting to examine the study design. Like SKL and others said, it sounds like environmental factors along with several other variables would need to be considered.

"And what we find is strong, consistent evidence that genetic factors account for the intergenerational transmission of divorce. For this reason, focusing on increasing commitment or strengthening interpersonal skills may not be a particularly good use of time for a therapist working with a distressed couple.”

I find that last sentence a little odd because therapists typically do focus on increasing commitment and working on interpersonal skills regardless of why they think the couple is sitting in their office. I will be interested to see how many will challenge the "strong, consistent evidence" or find design flaws. I am always a little cautious  where the line of genetic transmission and epigenetic / environmental / transitional factors lies.

[SKL]

18 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

I thought it was a collaboration between a Swedish and US Institution?  Or did you mean all their data came from Sweden?  

Yeah, the article mentions Swedish data only.

[moonflower]

Well, I didn't read the study but I'd presume the idea was that among people who are adopted from birth (so ruling out environmental factors as much as possible), people whose bio parents were divorced were themselves more likely to get divorced than other adoptees.

The only thing I wonder if they controlled for is familial adoption.  If your grandmother adopts you and raises you, that sort of messes up the data a bit as she raised (presumably) your bio parents as well.

[SKL]

“Across a series of designs using Swedish national registry data, we found consistent evidence that genetic factors primarily explained the intergenerational transmission of divorce.”

This suggests that genes play a bigger part than environmental factors.  (Assuming it's accurate and all that.)

[Liz CA]

11 minutes ago, SKL said:

Yeah, the article mentions Swedish data only.

 

Interesting. Does anyone have access to the actual study reports beyond the article linked?

[Tsuga]

I had a very different upbringing than my parents. I was convinced that my fortitude, religion and dedication to marriage made me a great candidate for lifelong marriage.

Unfortunately I shared their genes for attracting narcissistic gumwads into my life by my sheer determination to make things work. I think the traits that will land you in a bad relationship at least once are almost certainly genetic: optimism, a desire to heal or fix problems, a strong tendency to please people or ability to put up with a lot of stuff.

Not to mention, of course, the serial cheaters, the leavers... Those things are personality traits you cannot raise away. 

I hope to steer my kids away from early marriage and will encourage them to try out more relationships and get better counseling independent of family advice before commitment. Maybe they can make better choices than we did the first time.

But it's hard because who listens to their parents? And how can you teach them this lesson without alienating them?

Some people seem to instinctively choose good stable partners. They attract good people and they know who is lying. Not me. It takes me forever to figure that stuff out.

All this is to say the genetic component doesn't surprise me one bit.

[SproutMamaK]

It makes sense to me, insofar as mental illness can be genetic and could be a major cause behind both children being given up for adoption and divorce. Not to mention long-term damage done in utero from the abuse of things like alcohol, drugs, etc. The effects of that abuse could lead both biological parent and child to divorce.

[Carrie12345]

Divorce isn't a function of the body, so it bothers me to shove it into the category of GENEtic.  I'll admit I didn't bother to read the link because that bothered me so much and I'm short on morning Me Time today, but I wonder what other factors they explored (if any.)

My parents are divorced. I haven't yet found a single divorce in either of their family trees.  Plenty of not-so-mentally-well people, though!  My paternal grandparents probably would have gotten divorced (I'd hope) in today's world. Or maybe even just if my grandfather had lived longer. But with zero divorces going back, in some branches, to the late 1600s, how in the world could either of my parents receive a divorce gene? 

Okay, I did decide to take the time to click.

"The study’s findings suggest that it might be useful for therapists to target some of the more basic personality traits that previous research has suggested are genetically linked to divorce, such as high levels of negative emotionality and low levels of constraint, to mitigate their negative impact on close relationships."

Honestly, I'm no PhD. I didn't even make it through an entire semester of college.  But I can't understand why it would take a formal study to "discover" that it's hard for difficult people to stay married.  The researchers could have just texted me and I would have let them know! ? 

 

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Divorce isn't a function of the body, so it bothers me to shove it into the category of GENEtic.  I'll admit I didn't bother to read the link because that bothered me so much and I'm short on morning Me Time today, but I wonder what other factors they explored (if any.)

My parents are divorced. I haven't yet found a single divorce in either of their family trees.  Plenty of not-so-mentally-well people, though!  My paternal grandparents probably would have gotten divorced (I'd hope) in today's world. Or maybe even just if my grandfather had lived longer. But with zero divorces going back, in some branches, to the late 1600s, how in the world could either of my parents receive a divorce gene? 

Okay, I did decide to take the time to click.

"The study’s findings suggest that it might be useful for therapists to target some of the more basic personality traits that previous research has suggested are genetically linked to divorce, such as high levels of negative emotionality and low levels of constraint, to mitigate their negative impact on close relationships."

Honestly, I'm no PhD. I didn't even make it through an entire semester of college.  But I can't understand why it would take a formal study to "discover" that it's hard for difficult people to stay married.  The researchers could have just texted me and I would have let them know! ? 

 

I think the point is more about how likely the participants are to find divorce to be the solution. As you said, there have been “divorce-worthy” people in your family tree; the difference is in whether this is the choice either or both partners are likely to make. 

I think we all know people in marriages that make us go, “Just get divorced already! Sheesh! You make each other miserable!” Yet others leave or seemingly sabotage a good marriage that did not have to end in divorce. Two of my siblings did the later. They bombed their own marriages which, by all outward accounts, could have gone the distance. 

I have a little joke line I like to say when people talk about why some marriages last. I say, “The secret to a marriage lasting is simply that both people stay.” Ultimately, that’s the truth. Marriages last if neither partner decides to go. (Obviously I am simplifying and not talking about abuse or mental illness so much.) So, in some ways, it’s not really a question of whether or not both parties are wonderful people. 

[Innisfree]

I found an interview transcript about this last night while browsing Twitter. It adds a few other details about the study. I think, the way they present it, it makes sense. It's actually the personality traits being inherited, and they lead to higher rates of divorce.

I believe there's a typo in the last question, though: I think it should read that you *can't* change height or eye color.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4353197

[Tsuga]

5 hours ago, SproutMamaK said:

 

 

3 hours ago, Quill said:

. Marriages last if neither partner decides to go. (Obviously I am simplifying and not talking about abuse or mental illness so much.) So, in some ways, it’s not really a question of whether or not both parties are wonderful people. 

That's what I thought too.

All I have to do is just not leave. How hard could it be? 

Okay, he threw something at my head and left for six weeks and said he has an affair. That's okay. If I don't leave, I am not divorced. Super simple! It's adorable how simple this is.

Oh wait, he left again after screaming profanities at the kids. Now the bank account is empty. No problem. All I have to do is just not file the paperwork and I have a marriage. Simple.

Well now he wants to have sex without a condom and he said he doesn't believe men can be monogamous.

It doesn't matter if he's a wonderful person. I just have to not leave and how hard could that be? 

Well now he left AGAIN, emptied the bank account AGAIN, screamed at me AGAIN, and sent a link to divorce papers.

So simple. All I have to do is just stay.

He has sex with me without my consent. Just. Don't. Leave. That's it. Close your eyes and hope there's no STDs. 

And I was lucky. He didn't have guns and he didn't hit me.

Living with mental illness and NPD isn't a question of not leaving, Quill. It is a decision to put your own and your kids lives and health at risk on a daily and weekly basis.

The reason you think you don't have to be "wonderful people" is because you haven't seen the depths that sick people can go to to harm others. No, you don't have to be wonderful people. But not having a mental illness really helps more than you can imagine. This is not like...ADD. (He also got diagnosed with ADD on top of bipolar and NPD, on top of everything, which was a great step for him that makes it easier to coparent.)

I am in a normal relationship now. We disagree but nobody is trying to destroy themselves or the other person. We are imperfect but not having an active desire to see the other person break makes commitment possible. You don't need "wonderful", no, but you do need "not on a mission to destroy your partner psychologically".

You don't get it. What may seem on the outside like a choice is often an escape.

My partner knew I was in it unless he hit. So of course he chose as many psychologically destructive things as he could, to watch me slowly crumble.

Your suggestion that you just can "not leave" is hurtful I think to many in abuse.

And you'd be amazed how much abuse and adultery there is in divorced families. I found that out after I got out, mercifully thanks to his final declaration that he never wanted to see us again and written insistence that I file for divorce. No god or priest or mullah or rabbi would hold me to that. And I learned the grown up story, the one nobody tells at social events, of why moms and dads divorce.

It isn't towels on the bathroom floor, not a lot of the time. It is violence, mental illness, and adultery.

You just don't hear it because if you are saying things like "just don't leave" then a lot of people probably don't talk to you about it. 

Nobody in my life but my partner knows what a cluster my marriage was. Nobody knows about the abuse. Why would I mention that?!? We say idlt didn't work out. Quill, your blithe statement is intended to help the weak but it could kill a string person. I beg you to reconsider that little piece of advice. Yes, you just have to stay and that's it.

But you also need to consider that staying alive and not destroying yourself is as worthwhile a goal as marriage.

Please reconsider your advice. Leaving an abusive relationship is one of the hardest things in the world, in part because of the massive sense of failure and sin that accompanies divorce. "Others could stay, but I couldn't."

Even if you fail to make a lazy young divorce feel bad because you can't whip out a cute quip, you will make an abusee more likely to survive, because you show empathy. It is truly worth it.

I watched a man throw a plate over my toddler's head. "Both partners have to decide not to leave." There are many things you don't see, Quill. Please have compassion.

[Tsuga]

I think you edited your post after I posted? Mine still stays. Because abuse isn't clear cut and it's much more prevalent than people think.

I really don't think just deciding to stay works. Thats the easy part for all but mentally ill people.

I'd go so far as to say barring 20+ year marriages, if your partner wants to up and leave, that is the sign you need that they are not in it as a healthy or even moderately functional partner. Let them go.

[Junie]

(((Tsuga)))

[Junie]

This study is interesting to me.

My mom was divorced.

Her father was divorced.  But, the divorce happened before she was born.  He remarried and then had a family.  

His mother was divorced (in a time when divorce was uncommon).  And again, the same.  The divorce happened; she remarried and then had a family.

 

So there is a strong history of divorce, even though the kids did not grow up in broken homes.

Also, none of my mom's siblings are divorced.  (I don't know about my grandfather's siblings.)

[Liz CA]

38 minutes ago, Tsuga said:

 

That's what I thought too.

All I have to do is just not leave. How hard could it be? 

Okay, he threw something at my head and left for six weeks and said he has an affair. That's okay. If I don't leave, I am not divorced. Super simple! It's adorable how simple this is.

Oh wait, he left again after screaming profanities at the kids. Now the bank account is empty. No problem. All I have to do is just not file the paperwork and I have a marriage. Simple.

 

 

Quill qualified her post by excluding abusive behavior. Of course, what you experienced was not a question of staying or leaving. I understand there is still residual feelings about this but I don't think this is what Quill suggested at all.

Now personality traits and attracting people with narcissistic tendencies, lack of healthy boundaries, preoccupied attachment styles - as you said, those seem to all play a role.

[DawnM]

10 hours ago, SKL said:

The article doesn't give many details, but I would assume that they would have compared kids born from both divorced couples and couples who married and did not divorce.  Otherwise I don't see how they could draw the conclusions they drew.

It does sound like a messy job though - given that there are two bio parents who may or may not have stayed together ... maybe each went on to marry someone else but stayed married ... but since it's genes they are studying, it should not matter whether the marriage(s) occurred before or after the adoptee's birth.

 

And there are a whole host of other factors.

If they are dealing with adoptees and birth parents, I am assuming most of these were open adoptions or they would have to hunt down birth families and children.  Open adoptions usually mean the child has contact with the birth parents, so the birth parents DO have an impact on "nurture" and not only "nature."

I just see too man variables and too many caveats to convince me that this is because of genes.

Signed:

And adoptive child who is also an adoptive mom

[Tsuga]

17 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

Quill qualified her post by excluding abusive behavior. Of course, what you experienced was not a question of staying or leaving. I understand there is still residual feelings about this but I don't think this is what Quill suggested at all.

Now personality traits and attracting people with narcissistic tendencies, lack of healthy boundaries, preoccupied attachment styles - as you said, those seem to all play a role.

She edited after I posted (or probably around the same time--it took.forever to type that on a phone) and I did note that in a second post. I do agree that lack of social awareness and codependent tendencies are inherited. I do see it in my family. I and my partner work very hard to get beyond those tendencies.

I don't know how to protect my kids though. The main issue is choice--K think matchmaking or matrilineal systems in which you just don't marry. We are too gullible, too romantic, too socially stupid to choose partners.

Also--regarding "normal  divorce"--heritability regarding these mental illness and other traits that i am saying cause divorce play a bigger role than what people hear at church or cocktail parties.

 

 

[Tsuga]

On 7/12/2018 at 8:30 AM, Liz CA said:

 

.

DP sorry

 

[Guest]

@Tsuga, I did not edit my post. I have been painting all morning and have not touched the computer since I posted that. I am terribly, horribly sorry you went through all of those things and probably more than that. That is why I said in my post it was something I say jokingly and excluding abuse and mental illness. I would never actually advise a person dealing with abuse to stay because, “It’s so simple. Just don’t choose to leave.” I meant it 100% in a light-hearted way.

My DH is sometimes a total d#ckhead. I am sometimes a wacko nutjob. I haven’t left. He hasn’t left. So now we’ve been married 24 years. But he hasn’t ever thrown objects at my head or screamed profanities at us. That was all I meant. 

[Bluegoat]

5 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Divorce isn't a function of the body, so it bothers me to shove it into the category of GENEtic.  I'll admit I didn't bother to read the link because that bothered me so much and I'm short on morning Me Time today, but I wonder what other factors they explored (if any.)

My parents are divorced. I haven't yet found a single divorce in either of their family trees.  Plenty of not-so-mentally-well people, though!  My paternal grandparents probably would have gotten divorced (I'd hope) in today's world. Or maybe even just if my grandfather had lived longer. But with zero divorces going back, in some branches, to the late 1600s, how in the world could either of my parents receive a divorce gene? 

Okay, I did decide to take the time to click.

"The study’s findings suggest that it might be useful for therapists to target some of the more basic personality traits that previous research has suggested are genetically linked to divorce, such as high levels of negative emotionality and low levels of constraint, to mitigate their negative impact on close relationships."

Honestly, I'm no PhD. I didn't even make it through an entire semester of college.  But I can't understand why it would take a formal study to "discover" that it's hard for difficult people to stay married.  The researchers could have just texted me and I would have let them know! ? 

 

 

I agree, it seems obvious, but thinking about it, I can see that maybe that is not the way divorce therapists etc are usually working.

[Carrie12345]

I think Quill's post stands, though.  I didn't read it as a rally cry for staying, just that there' a difference between divorce and bad relationships.  One does not always equal the other.  Divorce is a legal term. You can't inherit legal terms.  You can inherit traits that impact relationships. (Or marry someone who does.) And then some divorce. And some do not, whatever the reason.

[Bluegoat]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

I think the point is more about how likely the participants are to find divorce to be the solution. As you said, there have been “divorce-worthy” people in your family tree; the difference is in whether this is the choice either or both partners are likely to make. 

I think we all know people in marriages that make us go, “Just get divorced already! Sheesh! You make each other miserable!” Yet others leave or seemingly sabotage a good marriage that did not have to end in divorce. Two of my siblings did the later. They bombed their own marriages which, by all outward accounts, could have gone the distance. 

I have a little joke line I like to say when people talk about why some marriages last. I say, “The secret to a marriage lasting is simply that both people stay.” Ultimately, that’s the truth. Marriages last if neither partner decides to go. (Obviously I am simplifying and not talking about abuse or mental illness so much.) So, in some ways, it’s not really a question of whether or not both parties are wonderful people. 

 

I've often thought that the reason I didn't throw in the towel a few times is that I'm a terrible procrastinator and prefer to avoid confrontation.  By the time it would take me to ge on with it, things have improved. 

[Carrie12345]

1 minute ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I agree, it seems obvious, but thinking about it, I can see that maybe that is not the way divorce therapists etc are usually working.

Yes. It took what was probably a full year and 3 therapists for us to be able to get across that we KNOW we have FOO issues; now let's move on and focus on the people in THIS relationship!!!

[Liz CA]

24 minutes ago, Tsuga said:

She edited after I posted (or probably around the same time--it took.forever to type that on a phone) and I did note that in a second post. I do agree that lack of social awareness and codependent tendencies are inherited. I do see it in my family. I and my partner work very hard to get beyond those tendencies.

I don't know how to protect my kids though. The main issue is choice--K think matchmaking or matrilineal systems in which you just don't marry. We are too gullible, too romantic, too socially stupid to choose partners.

Also--regarding "normal  divorce"--heritability regarding these mental illness and other traits that i am saying cause divorce play a bigger role than what people hear at church or cocktail parties.

 

 

 

I have a ds and wish I could protect him as well but I don't think we can really protect because in the end it is their choice. The only thing we can hope for IMHO is that we talked to them about what are some of the red flags and get them to think what they are looking for in a future mate. The clearer picture is of what they are looking for, the (hopefully) less likely it will be they will settle for someone who only has 2 out of 10 of the desired traits. I also encourage people to think of that list in terms of priority. We all know there are no perfect people out there and we are not perfect either but having clarity on what are some of the non-negotiables versus the "I could live with this" categories are can help.

[Liz CA]

17 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I've often thought that the reason I didn't throw in the towel a few times is that I'm a terrible procrastinator and prefer to avoid confrontation.  By the time it would take me to ge on with it, things have improved. 

 

This is how I read Quill's post as well. Clearly excluding abuse in any form, sometimes people have a hard time muddling through the mundane, or temporary stresses and difficulties and jump ship. Perseverance and a willingness to work on problems takes time, effort and can be frustrating. Those who can persevere versus making quick decisions to stop the pain right now, may be the couples who go the distance.

[SKL]

It really doesn't help to go back through many generations and look for a divorce, since the stigma of divorce prevented many that would have otherwise happened until recently.

That may also be why they chose Sweden - I remember reading decades ago that the divorce rate in Sweden was relatively high for that time.  So perhaps the "stigma" effect was not there in the generations they studied.

I am sure there are many other factors (or else the correlation would be 100%), but I certainly would not discount the genetic possibility.

I would go a bit farther and wonder what else this might imply.

3 of my 4 grandparents divorced at some point.  My parents never divorced, and their kids haven't so far (12-30 years of marriage but it still could happen); but 3 of the 6 of us never married at all.  Maybe that is linked too.  Just an interesting thought.

I wonder about a lot of things that my kids may or may not have inherited from their birth parents.  I hope their kids get a better start than they did, but who knows ....

[maize]

6 hours ago, SproutMamaK said:

It makes sense to me, insofar as mental illness can be genetic and could be a major cause behind both children being given up for adoption and divorce. Not to mention long-term damage done in utero from the abuse of things like alcohol, drugs, etc. The effects of that abuse could lead both biological parent and child to divorce.

Yeah, I was thinking of these sorts of factors too.

Factors that could contribute to divorce such as mental illness and substance abuse have both heritable and direct impacts on children before birth.

Which could the increase the child's likelihood of relationship difficulties.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

This is how I read Quill's post as well. Clearly excluding abuse in any form, sometimes people have a hard time muddling through the mundane, or temporary stresses and difficulties and jump ship. Perseverance and a willingness to work on problems takes time, effort and can be frustrating. Those who can persevere versus making quick decisions to stop the pain right now, may be the couples who go the distance.

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. It takes me ages to decide on something as simple as what kind of new sofa to buy. So that is my joke. We are together because I stayed and he stayed. Were I prone to snap decisions (and if I could afford to make them), we would have been long divorced - and that probably goes the same from his direction. 

[Bluegoat]

12 minutes ago, Liz CA said:

 

This is how I read Quill's post as well. Clearly excluding abuse in any form, sometimes people have a hard time muddling through the mundane, or temporary stresses and difficulties and jump ship. Perseverance and a willingness to work on problems takes time, effort and can be frustrating. Those who can persevere versus making quick decisions to stop the pain right now, may be the couples who go the distance.

 

I'm not sure I would exclude abuse.  Why does one abusive marriage stay together while another doesn't?  I'm sure the basic personality factors of the spouses has something to do with it, someone who is less of a risk taker might be more likely to stay than someone who is a risk taker.    In that case the staying together is not for the good, but that doesn't mean personality isn't a factor.  

[Guest]

Also, @Tsuga, when I said it was my little joke line, I meant to people like my hairdresser, who said, “Wow, 24 years! What’s your secret?” In NO WAY would I ever, ever give that as real advice to someone who told me their marriage was troubled and they were thinking of leaving. 

[Liz CA]

42 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I'm not sure I would exclude abuse.  Why does one abusive marriage stay together while another doesn't?  I'm sure the basic personality factors of the spouses has something to do with it, someone who is less of a risk taker might be more likely to stay than someone who is a risk taker.    In that case the staying together is not for the good, but that doesn't mean personality isn't a factor.  

 

Depends on how we define that abuse. Some people put an outburst of profanity into the verbal abuse column. Others stay through beatings, assault and worse. There are different degrees as well as different definitions.

What I meant is that I am not saying "show some staying power in a marriage through beatings" This is completely different to me than the "life happens" issues that all people encounter through a lifetime. i.e stress rearing children, stress from unemployment, financial upheaval, health issues, etc.

 

[Liz CA]

2 minutes ago, Danae said:

I think "Scientists say Divorce is Genetic!" is a hotter headline than "The reason children of divorce are more likely to divorce might be less about their parents setting a bad example and more about traits that they have in common."

 

 

 

For sure, however, a little misleading.

[Tsuga]

6 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

Divorce isn't a function of the body, so it bothers me to shove it into the category of GENEtic.

I mean... Do you not believe decisions are made in the brain? Even the Catholic Church has to some extent revised the duality of the soul doctrine to allow for mental illness, brain function and other physical considerations as part of our person (as opposed to a different type of dualism suggesting all behaviors come from some kind of immaterial soul, and not the brain--just executed in the brain). Not sure if you are Catholic or belong to a different religion but it would be interesting to hear why you think decisions don't come from the brain which is in the body. Maybe this is off topic, but I'd be curious to know your thoughts on, say, depression in that case. Also not genetic because it is not in the body? Or is there something different about behaviors related to divorce?

[Carrie12345]

10 minutes ago, Tsuga said:

I mean... Do you not believe decisions are made in the brain? Even the Catholic Church has to some extent revised the duality of the soul doctrine to allow for mental illness, brain function and other physical considerations as part of our person (as opposed to a different type of dualism suggesting all behaviors come from some kind of immaterial soul, and not the brain--just executed in the brain). Not sure if you are Catholic or belong to a different religion but it would be interesting to hear why you think decisions don't come from the brain which is in the body. Maybe this is off topic, but I'd be curious to know your thoughts on, say, depression in that case. Also not genetic because it is not in the body? Or is there something different about behaviors related to divorce?

I don’t believe my binge watching Supernatural with a bag of Cheetos and an ice cream sandwich is genetic. They’re my favorite coping mechanisms for my mental heath issues, though. 

[Scarlett]

Tsuga, I do believe some people stay in bad, abusive marriages for too long.  I did.  But I couldn't wrap my head around why he wouldn't just be straighten up and grow up and all could be well.  Especially after our son was born...people all have their own demons though and he wasn't willing to do the work to overcome his.  

And my dh's XW......she hooked up with another man but hid it quite well....and what she said was dh was just too difficult to live with.  An interesting side point to that is dh told me when he had back surgery when their youngest was an infant, the surgeon warned them that divorce rates were VERY high after this sort of traumatic injury and surgery.  He said the stress just kills some marriages. And it was true there were a couple of terrible years....recovering from the surgery, going to college when he had not even graduated high school, moving all of them into family housing....she worked a couple of part time jobs to help them survive.... By the time she left though, life was good again.  He was recovered and retrained and working at a new job making good money.  She however, started going out with workmates....gambling, going to bars, coming home at 3:00 a.m. smashed while he stayed home caring for the kids.  When she talked to dh's sister about why she left it was all about that time when he was injured and recovering from surgery.  She is a real grudge holder it seems.  

Those are the kinds of situations that people should have stuck out.  

[Tsuga]

36 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I don’t believe my binge watching Supernatural with a bag of Cheetos and an ice cream sandwich is genetic. They’re my favorite coping mechanisms for my mental heath issues, though. 

I didn't ask about Cheetos. I asked about what you believe the connection is between your brain and your behavior.

Do you believe your behavior is caused by your brain, and that the brain is a physical object, a part of your body?