Skipping math in 12th grade?

[Mom2boys]

My ds, who intends to pursue a BFA in Lighting Design, does not want to take any math in 12th grade. He has four math credits already, through precalc, which seems to meet the admissions requirements for the universities he is considering. But I have read multiple places that colleges really like to see math taken in 12th grade on transcripts - I believe because it shows rigor and that the student didn't slack off senior year? Did any of your kids not take any math in 12th grade? Did it hurt them at all in terms of college admissions or merit scholarships?

 

[MarkT]

2 hours ago, Mom2boys said:

My ds, who intends to pursue a BFA in Lighting Design, does not want to take any math in 12th grade. He has four math credits already, through precalc, which seems to meet the admissions requirements for the universities he is considering. But I have read multiple places that colleges really like to see math taken in 12th grade on transcripts - I believe because it shows rigor and that the student didn't slack off senior year? Did any of your kids not take any math in 12th grade? Did it hurt them at all in terms of college admissions or merit scholarships?

 

Is there a particular math class such as College Algebra required for this degree - if so maybe consider doing that class over the whole year and try to place out of it at the college.  For a BFA IMHO don't think taking math would be make or break unless you are applying to very competitive colleges.

[Mom2boys]

3 minutes ago, MarkT said:

Is there a particular math class such as College Algebra required for this degree - if so maybe consider doing that class over the whole year and try to place out of it at the college.  For a BFA IMHO don't think taking math would be make or break unless you are applying to very competitive colleges.

I am going to look into this more, but from what I have seen at some of the schools he is looking at, math is not required. He will be taking dual enrollment classes at our local university, so he could take a college math class this fall and then be done with a math requirement, if there is one. But he feels that having fine arts classes over math and science would boost his chances of admission to a college of fine arts. The colleges themselves aren't ultra competitive academically, but tech theatre/lighting design programs are, which is why I am even considering going along with the "no math or science senior year" plan. 

[Lori D.]

Four credits of math through Pre-Calc, and using 12th grade to do dual enrollment and some heavy-lifting courses in his chosen field of Fine Arts to enhance his portfolio (and hence, his competitiveness for admission) does not sound like "slacking" to me. ; )

You might consider laying out the transcript by subject, rather than grade/year (unless one of the colleges DS will apply to requires transcripts in grade/year format).

[alewife]

If your son has his college list made, I would check with the colleges on the list to see what they say.  I would think that your son would be fine since he has the four credits, but I would call the schools to be on the safe side.

[Chris in VA]

Would he enjoy statistics? It is a much more narrative and highly practical math. 

[FriedClams]

I would consider Stats. It's a great class in general, and the math isn't very difficult. It's also very practical and useful in adult life. 

[JanetC]

The question isn't just what he's not taking. It's what he is taking. What does his senior year schedule look like? Are there any STEM related courses?

We did math in senior year because here in Washington, the state system requires senior year math or "other quantitative course" (basically a math-heavy stem or business class).

 

[daijobu]

I've heard of a student who used an economics class as a senior year math class.  You might consider a consumer economics course for your student, if you think s/he might benefit.  

[Scarlett]

My son didn’t have math his senior year.  He got four credits by then. And he  Was dual enrolled in vo-tech his junior and senior year taking drafting. He got into several colleges but none of them were difficult to get into in my opinion.

[Caroline]

I have a student who is going to study the same thing in college next year. He is going to Penn State and has several scholarships. He didn’t take a math his senior year. His junior year was AP Calculus AB with a 5 on the exam.  He did get admitted to several colleges without a senior year math. 

[Lori D.]

Caroline's post above just triggered another thought -- if your student is a good tester, AND if the college DS will be attending accepts CLEP tests, what about spending this summer studying the College Algebra material (since he's still "fresh" with math having just completed Pre-Calc), and put College Algebra with CLEP on the transcript?

[Chris in VA]

Also, some kinds of physics are considered a math credit, and learning about the properties of light? Well, that'd be a good thing! lol

[Lanny]

OP you mentioned Rigor.   One of the things the 4 Admissions Reps from the 4 Ivy League schools who presented  the School Fair we attended the night of May 3rd was Rigor...  Rigor of the school and Rigor of the classes.  I think it would look better on his transcript if he had a Math course in 12th grade.

[8filltheheart]

I would contact the schools he is interested in applying to and ask both the admissions dept and the actual program dept what courses they would recommend.  

[DebbS]

My arts oriented Ds had all of his math credits completed prior to his senior year so he did computer programming instead. Some colleges will let you use computer courses for either math or science so he used it to fulfill a science credit. He majored in interior architecture with focus on digital design and fabrication which required some college level math that he was well prepared for from his high school courses. Additionally, he got merit scholarships to help pay the way. I don't think his lack of a senior year math course had any effect on those one way or the other.

But, to make sure that it's okay for your son to skip math in his senior year, why don't you call the colleges-of-interest admissions departments and ask? I did that for both of my kids about mid-way through high school and then just prior to their senior years to be sure that we were on track with our home schooling plans. The various admissions people that I talked to were quite helpful. 

Mom brag: Ds just graduated Phi Beta Kappa, Summa Cum Laude with Honors College notation and debt free. And he's employed in his field!

[katilac]

On 6/4/2018 at 2:40 PM, DebbS said:

 

Mom brag: Ds just graduated Phi Beta Kappa, Summa Cum Laude with Honors College notation and debt free. And he's employed in his field!

 

 

Awesome! What's his field? 

[DebbS]

20 hours ago, katilac said:

 

Awesome! What's his field? 

Interior Architecture with focus on digital design and fabrication.

[katilac]

49 minutes ago, DebbS said:

Interior Architecture with focus on digital design and fabrication.

 

Very cool! My cousin's dd just graduated and is working in that field also. She really wishes her school had used the interior architecture term, because they put everything under the umbrella of interior design and everyone thinks she is an interior decorator. Not that there's anything wrong with interior decorating, it's just not what she does!  

[mschickie]

I always suggest that high schoolers do a consumer math class in 12th grade even if they are taking a stronger math class too.  The practical aspect of consumer math is something that many high schoolers especially those who are strong in the STEM areas are lacking when they get to college.

[Mom2boys]

I am the OP and wanted to add a follow-up for anyone who may come across this thread in the future. My ds did not take any math his senior year. It didn't not adversely effect him in terms of college admissions - he was accepted at every college he applied to, and was offered merit scholarships by all. Also, he earned an A- in his first college math class, taken his first semester of freshmen year. He was a little rusty, but wasn't afraid to ask for extra help when he needed it. So not taking math in 12th grade worked out just fine for my son. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Mom2boys

[...................]

On 5/24/2018 at 8:01 AM, Mom2boys said:

My ds, who intends to pursue a BFA in Lighting Design, does not want to take any math in 12th grade. He has four math credits already, through precalc, which seems to meet the admissions requirements for the universities he is considering. But I have read multiple places that colleges really like to see math taken in 12th grade on transcripts - I believe because it shows rigor and that the student didn't slack off senior year? Did any of your kids not take any math in 12th grade? Did it hurt them at all in terms of college admissions or merit scholarships?

 

 

I would say it depends on his overall transcript.  In a similar situation my dd intends to pursue graphic design.  However, she will apply to another major if rejected so I want her high school to be generally college prep, if not exactly rigorous.  

She does not intend to take Science in 12th grade.  When speaking to admissions, they said for Art, it would be preferable for her to focus on taking more art classes from the community college.

Of course, if she is then not accepted into the art program, and reapplies in another major, or applies elsewhere as another major (probably English/Literature), then her overall transcript will be less rigorous.

SO, if he's SURE he's applying everywhere for Lighting Tech, and he has some other rigor (aka 3 years of FL, or 3-4 years of Science or AP something, etc.) then he can drop math in 12th grade.  But if his overall transcript is vanilla, OR he may possibly apply as a non arts major at another school, or if rejected from Lighting Design, ....then I'd keep the math if possible.

Also, many states allow you to put 8th grade math on the high school transcript.  Which would look like 4 years of math (and actually, is four years of math)

[fourisenough]

9 hours ago, Calming Tea said:

 

I would say it...

This is an old thread. OP was just popping back in to give an update on how it turned out. 😀

[...................]

Oh duh, oops! 

[Reefgazer]

My DD had 5 math credits (through precalculus) and took no math in 12th grade.  Her chosen college programs will not require math past precalculus, which she did dual enrollment and will transfer those credits in.  She got into all her college choices, with the top (or near the top) merit scholarships.  I think it is fine for an arts/humanities kid, but I wouldn't try that for a college math/science kid.  Important note:  DD did not apply to Harvard-type colleges, but average competitive colleges.  She also has a very strong GPA with 25 college credits and very good standardized test scores.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

On 5/24/2018 at 11:01 AM, Mom2boys said:

My ds, who intends to pursue a BFA in Lighting Design, does not want to take any math in 12th grade. He has four math credits already, through precalc, which seems to meet the admissions requirements for the universities he is considering. But I have read multiple places that colleges really like to see math taken in 12th grade on transcripts - I believe because it shows rigor and that the student didn't slack off senior year? Did any of your kids not take any math in 12th grade? Did it hurt them at all in terms of college admissions or merit scholarships?

 

How competitive are admissions to the college and/or the BFA program? While he may have met minimums for admission, would the bulk of enrolled students have a higher math coming in?

Is there a university requirement for a quantitative course for college graduation? Many colleges require students to take courses in certain categories regardless of major. These have different names depending on the college (distribution credits, university credits, liberal arts requirements, etc). The idea is to ensure everyone engages on some level with using math, writing, world history or culture, etc. 

He might be able to take a DE math course that would transfer. I would check specifics of the courses before enrolling so he knew if it were likely to transfer. Colleges can have quirky math sequences and I've seen College Algebra mean contradictory things (from remedial algebra to a bridge course before pre-calc to the non-trig portion of a pre-calc sequence).

Is there a quantitative course he could take that would keep him using math but wouldn't involve doing calculus? Folks have mentioned economics and statistics. Physics could be an option. Business finance might be an option (I'm thinking of a course that might serve him as a manager of a lighting crew or as a small business owner).

Summary 

Would it make him more competitive for admissions?

Would it keep skills fresh for a required college course? 

Can he take a course that would transfer and fill a requirement? 

Are there related quantitative courses that would give him good background or life skills? 

[DawnM]

On 5/24/2018 at 2:36 PM, alewife said:

If your son has his college list made, I would check with the colleges on the list to see what they say.  I would think that your son would be fine since he has the four credits, but I would call the schools to be on the safe side.

 

This.

My son's art college said one math OR science, however, he found out he had to take the math due to something or other (can't remember now but I think it was because he didn't take the SAT or ACT).  They told him he didn't have a choice, he had to take the math.  He wishes he had gotten it at CC.  

[skimomma]

Thanks for updating!