Dss16

[Kassia]

True but why we make those choices are the difference. I've come to believe really we are just a bag of chemicals mostly doing what the chemicals tell us.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

This is so true.  For example, my DH can open a bag of cookies or candy or whatever, eat a few and then forget they are there.  For me, if I eat candy or cookies, it sets off some kind of trigger in my brain where I can't stop eating sugar and there is no way I'll forget the treats are there - I either have to throw them out or I am compelled to eat them until they are gone.  It's like I'm in a frenzy at that point.  I'm not enjoying the food, but I have to consume it.

[HomeAgain]

This is so inappropriate. To imply Scarlett is not responsible and her son shouldn't be living there? Disgusting.

 

Scarlett has made some good decisons, and is moving in a positive direction, based on information posters have shared here. She's posting bc she needs help.

 

To be fair, Scarlett isn't asking for help.  She's posting to vent.  There is nothing in the OPs that ask for help, and though it is given, it is fought against every word of the way.

 

I can see where Sneezyone is coming from, though I don't necessarily agree with her sentiments. 

[unsinkable]

The doctor upped his blood pressure med a month ago and had dss16 in for a BP check today. First it was 140/84. Then 15 minutes later it was 130/78. Weight at 298 Doc wasn't there to give feedback on the BP....I don't know if he will think that is ok or if he will increase meds again.

 

The weight is a problem. I have no idea what to suggest next. I will let dh deal with him. I have resorted to keeping my snacks at work just so they don't all disappear in 3 days. I had a bag of granola in the cabinet that I use with yogurt. 1 TBLE for a 1/2 cup of yogurt, just for some crunch. Small box will last me weeks. It was gone in 3 days. Same with a breakfast bar I bought for ds17...He got one out of the box....dss17 ate the rest. I bought a box today and put in ds17's room. I don't know what else to do....I never thought I would have to live with hiding food.

 

Edited to correct weight.

Yep. And I truly do appreciate the voices of reason.

 

I talked to dh a long time this morning and he is definitely on board to get him to a specialist. And a counselor. And the gym. And a sleep study maybe.

 

Dss will be going to his mom's in a few days and it is the holidays so we will have to wait until the first of the year to get moving. In the meantime I spend my free time gathering information, sorting through the various layers of opinion vs facts vs. somewhere in the middle.

From "no idea what to suggest next" to a plan to help their son...

[Sneezyone]

From "no idea what to suggest next" to a plan to help their son...

This is part of a much larger pattern of everything that can be wrong being wrong with THIS CHILD, not the family dynamic, not the parenting, just the child and all of it being repeatedly shared online in the light most unflattering to the child. No one else needs to change, just the child, wash/rinse/repeat. It’s sick. This child deserves an advocate who sees him as something other than a problem that needs to be solved. Edited December 30, 2017 by Sneezyone

[Scarlett]

No child deserves to be talked about this way on the Internet on a regular basis. I don’t care how well-intentioned you are as a parent, if you’re violating your child’s privacy on the regular, to include discussing rather embarrassing personal details and unveiled insults, you need to do better. It’s disgusting that everyone here has been told by what should be a trusted adult that this NT child ‘pees on the floor’, is a fat, lazy slob, and can do no right/has no self-control. Heck, he can’t even date right according to Scarlett. All of this, and more, was said by his ‘parent’. THAT is disgusting and it really needs to stop. It’s bordering on abusive.

I have felt in the past I am posting to anonymous board. Not so much now since a few have implied they could track me down and identify me. I would never want my Dss to know I am as frustrated as I am about him. I don't want to hurt his feelings. However, what you put in this post above is not true and borders on slandering me. I have never said he is lazy and I have never called him a slob and as far as the dating---what dating? Neither of our sons are dating. You are apparently reading my posts through a very distorted lens. I do say good things about my Dss. I do good things for him. But I have no interest or reason to try and convince you of that. I do wish you would not 'sum up' my posts with untrue and slanderous details.

 

  

This is part of a much larger pattern of everything that can be wrong being wrong with THIS CHILD, not the family dynamic, not the parenting, just the child and all of it being repeatedly shared online in the light most unflattering to the child. No one else needs to change, just the child, wash/rinse/repeat. It’s sick.

I can see you feel strongly about this. I am not, by far, the only one on this board who posts embarrassing details,about my kids. I do certainly plan to change that since I have felt threatened by the animosity expressed to me by a few of you.

[Guest]

True but why we make those choices are the difference. I've come to believe really we are just a bag of chemicals mostly doing what the chemicals tell us.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

If that is true, though, then we shouldn’t prosecute date rape. In society, we are telling people (primarily men) that it does not matter how far down the road we have been led to believe sexual satisfaction is soon-to-be forthcoming, if the partner says no or indicates no by not being able to consent, the plan must change. We fully expect (as we ought) that the man must resist, no matter what happy chemicals have flooded his brain, no matter how much helpful blood has filled...other parts; no matter how his brain and body chemistry has said, “oh, goody! We like this!†Nevertheless, he must appeal to his better angels and turn away. He must go home, take a shower, take matters into his own hands (so to speak) or go settle for a grape snowcone, but the point is, we know that self-controll must trump brain and body chemistry. It must trump physiology because carrying out the directives the brain is urging is wrong.

 

Would we tell a serial rapist that he can’t help it; he has larger-than-average amounts of testosterone and that he can never be expected to control himself unless a doctor cuts his nuts off?

 

The main difference is that uncontrolled eating hurts the individual more than it hurts others and it is not a crime to eat the whole sleeve of cookies. I’m just following a thought process to what I believe is a logical conclusion. Why are we talking about body signals that say “eat the cookies†as though they must be obeyed? Why are we saying, because it is difficult to not eat the cookies, or to eat only a few, that the person who eats the whole sleeve bears no culpability?

[Scarlett]

This is part of a much larger pattern of everything that can be wrong being wrong with THIS CHILD, not the family dynamic, not the parenting, just the child and all of it being repeatedly shared online in the light most unflattering to the child. No one else needs to change, just the child, wash/rinse/repeat. It’s sick. This child deserves an advocate who sees him as something other than a problem that needs to be solved.

I see you edited your post. Not sure why. Maybe to take out some of the venom you obviously feel for me.

 

He has 4 parents. Which one of them do you think has spent the most time advocating for him? Wow. I am sorry you don't like my tone or whatever, but I am definitely advocating for him.

[Scarlett]

If that is true, though, then we shouldn’t prosecute date rape. In society, we are telling people (primarily men) that it does not matter how far down the road we have been led to believe sexual satisfaction is soon-to-be forthcoming, if the partner says no or indicates no by not being able to consent, the plan must change. We fully expect (as we ought) that the man must resist, no matter what happy chemicals have flooded his brain, no matter how much helpful blood has filled...other parts; no matter how his brain and body chemistry has said, “oh, goody! We like this!†Nevertheless, he must appeal to his better angels and turn away. He must go home, take a shower, take matters into his own hands (so to speak) or go settle for a grape snowcone, but the point is, we know that self-controll must trump brain and body chemistry. It must trump physiology because carrying out the directives the brain is urging is wrong.

 

Would we tell a serial rapist that he can’t help it; he has larger-than-average amounts of testosterone and that he can never be expected to control himself unless a doctor cuts his nuts off?

 

The main difference is that uncontrolled eating hurts the individual more than it hurts others and it is not a crime to eat the whole sleeve of cookies. I’m just following a thought process to what I believe is a logical conclusion. Why are we talking about body signals that say “eat the cookies†as though they must be obeyed? Why are we saying, because it is difficult to not eat the cookies, or to eat only a few, that the person who eats the whole sleeve bears no culpability?

This is the part I can't quite get either. Some things are more difficult for some than for others. So what is the answer?

[OneStepAtATime]

I see you edited your post. Not sure why. Maybe to take out some of the venom you obviously feel for me.

 

He has 4 parents. Which one of them do you think has spent the most time advocating for him? Wow. I am sorry you don't like my tone or whatever, but I am definitely advocating for him.

Scarlett, this more than anything I think may get lost in the shuffle.  This child has 4 parents.  He has a lot of struggles.  You come here at times to seek answers or to vent because you are one of 4.  You only have so much control over the situation but are frequently the one working with him the most closely.  That can be challenging and frustrating, especially since many of his issues you just don't really understand.  I get that.  We all need a safe place to go to to brainstorm and work through our thoughts and vent and sometimes doing that with our IRL friends/family can be a really bad idea. 

 

I admit I would be very uncomfortable posting the details you do because people CAN be tracked down through public sites like this and if ever, some day in the future, he were to accidentally stumble on these posts (and they will potentially be in cyberspace for a very long time) it could be devastating to him.  I do think you are trying, though.  You want to help him.  I think you have some rather strong rigid thinking that makes it hard to shift viewpoints, open yourself to other perspectives, but you are trying.  I do think you care.

 

And I do think people often forget that there are three other parents involved in this that apparently are not helping this child much.  I hope with all my heart he can find a healthy, positive path in his life.  I think some of the plans others advocated and you and your DH are considering or pursuing sound promising.   I am sending hope and positive thoughts that they will help.

 

Best wishes.

Edited December 30, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Argh, I hate these threads.  I read them as a step-child who is interested in the step dynamic within a family, not because I have any direct experience with these problems.  

 

Scarlett vents about this kid.  She ALSO talks about him in a way that- to me- shows some clear love and appreciation for his personality.  She mentions cooking they do together, jokes they share, tidbits of conversations that clearly show she appreciates dss as a whole human being worthy of love.  

 

He has a disease which is killing him.  He is a teen, living the life of a 50 year old unhealthy man.  That must be agonizing to observe helplessly.  Give her a break!  

[Scarlett]

Scarlett, this more than anything I think may get lost in the shuffle. This child has 4 parents. He has a lot of struggles. You come here at times to seek answers or to vent because you are one of 4. You only have so much control over the situation but are frequently the one working with him the most closely. That can be challenging and frustrating, especially since many of his issues you just don't really understand. I get that. We all need a safe place to go to to brainstorm and work through our thoughts and vent and sometimes doing that with our IRL friends/family can be a really bad idea.

 

I admit I would be very uncomfortable posting the details you do because people CAN be tracked down through public sites like this and if ever, some day in the future, he were to accidentally stumble on these posts (and they will potentially be in cyberspace for a very long time) it could be devastating to him. I do think you are trying, though. You want to help him. I think you have some rather strong rigid thinking that makes it hard to shift viewpoints, open yourself to other perspectives, but you are trying. I do think you care.

 

And I do think people often forget that there are three other parents involved in this that apparently are not helping this child much. I hope with all my heart he can find a healthy, positive path in his life. I think some of the plans others advocated and you and your DH are considering or pursuing sound promising. I am sending hope and positive thoughts that they will help.

 

Best wishes.

Thank you.

[Sneezyone]

I see you edited your post. Not sure why. Maybe to take out some of the venom you obviously feel for me.

 

He has 4 parents. Which one of them do you think has spent the most time advocating for him? Wow. I am sorry you don't like my tone or whatever, but I am definitely advocating for him.

It has nothing to do with tone and everything to do with oversharing information that is not really yours to share. He’s entitled to more privacy and respect than you’ve shown. The personal info you’ve shared is best left for a therapist and the other three parents, not the world. And to anyswe your question, I edited to add. Nothing was deleted. Edited December 30, 2017 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

I have felt in the past I am posting to anonymous board. Not so much now since a few have implied they could track me down and identify me. I would never want my Dss to know I am as frustrated as I am about him. I don't want to hurt his feelings. However, what you put in this post above is not true and borders on slandering me. I have never said he is lazy and I have never called him a slob and as far as the dating---what dating? Neither of our sons are dating. You are apparently reading my posts through a very distorted lens. I do say good things about my Dss. I do good things for him. But I have no interest or reason to try and convince you of that. I do wish you would not 'sum up' my posts with untrue and slanderous details.

 

 

I can see you feel strongly about this. I am not, by far, the only one on this board who posts embarrassing details,about my kids. I do certainly plan to change that since I have felt threatened by the animosity expressed to me by a few of you.

You’re kidding right? Have you already forgotten how upset you were that both boys liked and were talking to the same girl? Whether you call it dating or something else, I have yet to see an OP about this boy that wasn’t a complaint about his personal and/or moral and/or physical and/or religious failings.

[unsinkable]

Everyone should note well the line that has been drawn:

 

Posters calling another poster abusive, implying her child should live elsewhere and that she can be tracked down on the internet.

[Scarlett]

Everyone should note well the line that has been drawn:

 

Posters calling another poster abusive, implying her child should live elsewhere and that she can be tracked down on the internet.

Yes it is creeping me out just a bit.

 

On a marriage board I was on 10 years ago one of the mods contacted a posters husband and showed him how to find all of her posts.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Scarlett

[OneStepAtATime]

Yes it is creeping me out just a bit.

 

On a marriage board I was on 10 years ago one of the mods contacted a posters husband and showed him how to find all of her posts.

YIKES!!!!!!

[ktgrok]

Quill, why are you so invested in this? You say you have no weight problem. This is not a personal issue for you. Why are you dead set on explaining to those that DO suffer from this how they are wrong about how they understand it?

 

We are trying, imperfectly I know, to explain it, as people that deal with it on a daily basis. On a minute by minute, holding on by our fingernails basis. And you keep telling us we are wrong in our understanding of it. Wrong in how we explain it. Wrong in how we frame it. 

 

Doing that really isn't helpful. And it's somewhat hurtful, honestly. 

[Sneezyone]

Everyone should note well the line that has been drawn:

 

Posters calling another poster abusive, implying her child should live elsewhere and that she can be tracked down on the internet.

. I can speak for myself. I find her repeated posts borderline abusive. I think this child deserves to be with people who don’t constantly post about his personal issues on the Internet. And, yes, the Internet is not private.

[bolt.]

Scarlett, the poster who is attacking you is way out of line. It's not something you need to be reading, thinking about, or responding to.

 

She is in the wrong, and she needs to leave you alone.

 

An anonymous forum is perfect for 'over sharing' to get other perspectives on sensitive situations.

 

I think you should block her. Right now. Before she says anything else. She will soon get tired of talking nonsense to no one.

[ktgrok]

This is the part I can't quite get either. Some things are more difficult for some than for others. So what is the answer?

A multi pronged approach including medical, psychological, and nutritional experts.

 

And knowing that it is a HARD disease to fight that many cannot or do not win, can help keep a person from self hatred as the fight the obesity. So many obese people HATE themselves, and are dealing with depression, etc. Knowing that it isn't a will power issue, that it is a biological disease, can at least help with that aspect. So that if they remain overweight they don't end up killing themselves or making thing worse out of self loathing. 

[Scarlett]

Scarlett, the poster who is attacking you is way out of line. It's not something you need to be reading, thinking about, or responding to.

 

She is in the wrong, and she needs to leave you alone.

 

An anonymous forum is perfect for 'over sharing' to get other perspectives on sensitive situations.

 

I think you should block her. Right now. Before she says anything else. She will soon get tired of talking nonsense to no one.

I can't remember how to block! I have only ever blocked one other person.

[Scarlett]

A multi pronged approach including medical, psychological, and nutritional experts.

 

And knowing that it is a HARD disease to fight that many cannot or do not win, can help keep a person from self hatred as the fight the obesity. So many obese people HATE themselves, and are dealing with depression, etc. Knowing that it isn't a will power issue, that it is a biological disease, can at least help with that aspect. So that if they remain overweight they don't end up killing themselves or making thing worse out of self loathing.

Well, I can't say I totally understand but we are trying to get him help.

[kiana]

I think assuming someone who shares for perspective/venting on a pseudonymous message board is abusive is a hell of a stretch. 

 

Frankly I'd rather have someone venting to a pseudonymous space on the internet than venting to mom friends who might know the kid in question, which is what people in my mother's generation did. 

Edited December 30, 2017 by kiana

[bolt.]

I can't remember how to block! I have only ever blocked one other person.

Go to your profile, click to edit your profile, find the 'ignore preferences' settings tab. Edited December 30, 2017 by bolt.

[Sneezyone]

I think assuming someone who shares for perspective/venting on a pseudonymous message board is abusive is a hell of a stretch.

 

Frankly I'd rather have someone venting to a pseudonymous space on the internet than venting to mom friends who might know the kid in question, which is what people in my mother's generation did.

I would agree with you but for the fact that this poster has a long history WRT to this child, never ‘her own son’.

[Sandwalker]

This is so true. For example, my DH can open a bag of cookies or candy or whatever, eat a few and then forget they are there. For me, if I eat candy or cookies, it sets off some kind of trigger in my brain where I can't stop eating sugar and there is no way I'll forget the treats are there - I either have to throw them out or I am compelled to eat them until they are gone. It's like I'm in a frenzy at that point. I'm not enjoying the food, but I have to consume it.

Our gut is our second brain. People think we "are" our brains (and souls), but our gut is a huge part of who we are. There are more nerve endings in our intestines than anywhere.

 

----

"A primal connection exists between our brain and our gut. We often talk about a “gut feeling†when we meet someone for the first time. We’re told to “trust our gut instinct†when making a difficult decision or that it’s “gut check time†when faced with a situation that tests our nerve and determination. This mind-gut connection is not just metaphorical. Our brain and gut are connected by an extensive network of neurons and a highway of chemicals and hormones that constantly provide feedback about how hungry we are, whether or not we’re experiencing stress, or if we’ve ingested a disease-causing microbe. This information superhighway is called the brain-gut axis and it provides constant updates on the state of affairs at your two ends. That sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach after looking at your postholiday credit card bill is a vivid example of the brain-gut connection at work. You’re stressed and your gut knows it—immediately.

 

The enteric nervous system is often referred to as our body’s second brain. There are hundreds of million of neurons connecting the brain to the enteric nervous system, the part of the nervous system that is tasked with controlling the gastrointestinal system. This vast web of connections monitors the entire digestive tract from the esophagus to the anus. The enteric nervous system is so extensive that it can operate as an independent entity without input from our central nervous system, although they are in regular communication. While our “second†brain cannot compose a symphony or paint a masterpiece the way the brain in our skull can, it does perform an important role in managing the workings of our inner tube. The network of neurons in the gut is as plentiful and complex as the network of neurons in our spinal cord, which may seem overly complex just to keep track of digestion. Why is our gut the only organ in our body that needs its own “brain� Is it just to manage the process of digestion? Or could it be that one job of our second brain is to listen in on the trillions of microbes residing in the gut?..." https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gut-feelings-the-second-brain-in-our-gastrointestinal-systems-excerpt/

[Guest]

Quill, why are you so invested in this? You say you have no weight problem. This is not a personal issue for you. Why are you dead set on explaining to those that DO suffer from this how they are wrong about how they understand it?

 

We are trying, imperfectly I know, to explain it, as people that deal with it on a daily basis. On a minute by minute, holding on by our fingernails basis. And you keep telling us we are wrong in our understanding of it. Wrong in how we explain it. Wrong in how we frame it.

 

Doing that really isn't helpful. And it's somewhat hurtful, honestly.

I do not think I am doing what you say I’m doing. I have asked a lot of questions, such as what the article suggests is the solution; nobody has an answer to that question. Why would anyone want to think they are held hostage to their brain and body chemistry? Why would that be a relief?

 

I care about it because it bothers me that the US is only accellerating in obesity rates - at break-neck speed. I care that, as a PP put it, the US is an “obesogenic†society. I agree with this and want to see it change. It is hurting a lot of people and an unprecedented number of children and teens. I want to see the tide turn. I want to see it go back the other way. I don’t want to smugly sit by and say, “Oh well. Sorry people are getting fatter, but I’m not, so I don’t care.â€

 

If I could wave a magic wand, I would make it so that there was no such thing as the need for a post like this one.

[ktgrok]

I do not think I am doing what you say I’m doing. I have asked a lot of questions, such as what the article suggests is the solution; nobody has an answer to that question. Why would anyone want to think they are held hostage to their brain and body chemistry? Why would that be a relief?

 

 

It's a relief to know this isn't because you are a bad person, lazy, self sabotaging, etc. Trust me, that is a relief. A HUGE relief. You don't get that. You don't have to. You've never sat around hating yourself because of this. You've never wondered what is wrong with you that you are so pathetic. You don't get it, but we are telling it to you. Please listen and believe us. 

 

And yes, the truth is, that the statistics show that most obese people don't find a way to be no longer obese. No one wants that to be the truth, but it is. Which means, you can't do this casually. It has to be a massive effort, and probably should involve a medical expert to give you the best chance at success. Does it totally and completely stuck that science hasn't come up with a better answer? Yes, it does. But that's the truth and pretending otherwise because you don't like that answer isn't helpful to anyone. 

 

Again, as the people that have gone through it are telling you, that isn't helpful. 

[amy g.]

I would agree with you but for the fact that this poster has a long history WRT to this child, never ‘her own son’.

The part that gets me is that I know hyper critical mothers who just find fault with everyone. I feel sorry for their kids. But I know that is just how they are.

 

I like Scarlett. I agree that she is trying to do what is best.

 

I think she may not see how selective her criticism is. I read the stepson’s failings in light with the memory that she could find no issue whatsoever with her biological son shooting the neighbor’s dog with a B.B. gun.

 

I don’t really think it is only the the oversharing that bothers people. I know when I really need advice, I share way too much.

 

It just seems like one child has no faults at all no matter what he does and the other has few redeeming qualities.

 

That good kid/bad kid dichotomy probably hits home for other boadies because they have experienced how damaging it can be.

[Kassia]

Our gut is our second brain. People think we "are" our brains (and souls), but our gut is a huge part of who we are. There are more nerve endings in our intestines than anywhere.

 

----

"A primal connection exists between our brain and our gut. We often talk about a “gut feeling†when we meet someone for the first time. We’re told to “trust our gut instinct†when making a difficult decision or that it’s “gut check time†when faced with a situation that tests our nerve and determination. This mind-gut connection is not just metaphorical. Our brain and gut are connected by an extensive network of neurons and a highway of chemicals and hormones that constantly provide feedback about how hungry we are, whether or not we’re experiencing stress, or if we’ve ingested a disease-causing microbe. This information superhighway is called the brain-gut axis and it provides constant updates on the state of affairs at your two ends. That sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach after looking at your postholiday credit card bill is a vivid example of the brain-gut connection at work. You’re stressed and your gut knows it—immediately.

 

The enteric nervous system is often referred to as our body’s second brain. There are hundreds of million of neurons connecting the brain to the enteric nervous system, the part of the nervous system that is tasked with controlling the gastrointestinal system. This vast web of connections monitors the entire digestive tract from the esophagus to the anus. The enteric nervous system is so extensive that it can operate as an independent entity without input from our central nervous system, although they are in regular communication. While our “second†brain cannot compose a symphony or paint a masterpiece the way the brain in our skull can, it does perform an important role in managing the workings of our inner tube. The network of neurons in the gut is as plentiful and complex as the network of neurons in our spinal cord, which may seem overly complex just to keep track of digestion. Why is our gut the only organ in our body that needs its own “brain� Is it just to manage the process of digestion? Or could it be that one job of our second brain is to listen in on the trillions of microbes residing in the gut?..." https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gut-feelings-the-second-brain-in-our-gastrointestinal-systems-excerpt/

 

I've never heard of this before...interesting.

 

From my own experience, I believe it's the brain.  I was anorexic in the 90s and started losing control with huge binges.  My doctor prescribed Prozac for me.  I almost immediately lost the desire to binge.  I believe the binging was caused by a lack of serotonin, and my brain was pushing me to binge on foods high in serotonin (lots and lots of carbs). Once the Prozac was providing serotonin, my brain didn't push me to binge anymore. Unfortunately, the effects of the Prozac wore off, but my response to the meds was fascinating to me and made me realize that it wasn't just an issue of willpower.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

If that is true, though, then we shouldn’t prosecute date rape. In society, we are telling people (primarily men) that it does not matter how far down the road we have been led to believe sexual satisfaction is soon-to-be forthcoming, if the partner says no or indicates no by not being able to consent, the plan must change. We fully expect (as we ought) that the man must resist, no matter what happy chemicals have flooded his brain, no matter how much helpful blood has filled...other parts; no matter how his brain and body chemistry has said, “oh, goody! We like this!†Nevertheless, he must appeal to his better angels and turn away. He must go home, take a shower, take matters into his own hands (so to speak) or go settle for a grape snowcone, but the point is, we know that self-controll must trump brain and body chemistry. It must trump physiology because carrying out the directives the brain is urging is wrong.

 

Would we tell a serial rapist that he can’t help it; he has larger-than-average amounts of testosterone and that he can never be expected to control himself unless a doctor cuts his nuts off?

 

The main difference is that uncontrolled eating hurts the individual more than it hurts others and it is not a crime to eat the whole sleeve of cookies. I’m just following a thought process to what I believe is a logical conclusion. Why are we talking about body signals that say “eat the cookies†as though they must be obeyed? Why are we saying, because it is difficult to not eat the cookies, or to eat only a few, that the person who eats the whole sleeve bears no culpability?

People can gain and retain weight for many different reasons. Uncontrolled eating due to cravings is one of them. Weight loss sites, programs and doctors do provide suggestions and strategies to handle it:

 

Identify your triggers and avoiding them is one.

 

Take one bite is another -some people are happy with that first taste and can then put it away. Others have just been triggered do this won’t work for them.

 

Have an appetizer like soup or salad to take the edge off of hunger. It’s easier to make decisions when you aren’t ravenous.

 

Drink water. Some of what we think are hunger cues are actually cues that we are thirsty.

 

Don’t let your Bloodsugar get too low. If you are too low then you won’t make good decisions partly because you will be shoveling sugar to keep from passing out. (This happens to my very thin diabetic husband. It’s still not good for him because then his sugars spike in response )

 

Make meals and snacks mindful. Mindless eating leads to eating too much because you are no longer eating to satisfy hunger but to alleviate boredom.

 

Brush your teeth once you’ve had enough. It’s often enough to keep people from continuing to graze especially at night.

 

Sometimes people crave what they are allergic to.

 

I could go on but I have to let the dog out to pee.

[Sneezyone]

The part that gets me is that I know hyper critical mothers who just find fault with everyone. I feel sorry for their kids. But I know that is just how they are.

 

I like Scarlett. I agree that she is trying to do what is best.

 

I think she may not see how selective her criticism is. I read the stepson’s failings in light with the memory that she could find no issue whatsoever with her biological son shooting the neighbor’s dog with a B.B. gun.

 

I don’t really think it is only the the oversharing that bothers people. I know when I really need advice, I share way too much.

 

It just seems like one child has no faults at all no matter what he does and the other has few redeeming qualities.

 

That good kid/bad kid dichotomy probably hits home for other boadies because they have experienced how damaging it can be.

 

Exactly.

[OneStepAtATime]

People can gain and retain weight for many different reasons. Uncontrolled eating due to cravings is one of them. Weight loss sites, programs and doctors do provide suggestions and strategies to handle it:

 

Identify your triggers and avoiding them is one.

 

Take one bite is another -some people are happy with that first taste and can then put it away. Others have just been triggered do this won’t work for them.

 

Have an appetizer like soup or salad to take the edge off of hunger. It’s easier to make decisions when you aren’t ravenous.

 

Drink water. Some of what we think are hunger cues are actually cues that we are thirsty.

 

Don’t let your Bloodsugar get too low. If you are too low then you won’t make good decisions partly because you will be shoveling sugar to keep from passing out. (This happens to my very thin diabetic husband. It’s still not good for him because then his sugars spike in response )

 

Make meals and snacks mindful. Mindless eating leads to eating too much because you are no longer eating to satisfy hunger but to alleviate boredom.

 

Brush your teeth once you’ve had enough. It’s often enough to keep people from continuing to graze especially at night.

 

Sometimes people crave what they are allergic to.

 

I could go on but I have to let the dog out to pee.

I agree.

 

On a side note, I will say as a hypoglycemic that if my blood sugar is out of whack I am frequently no longer really making rational decisions regarding food (or a lot of other things for that matter).  My brain chemistry gets way off and my choices can be goofy.  Plus, I need healthy things readily available that I can just grab without having to think it through because brain capacity is sometimes the first thing directly affected by my wacky blood sugar.  But when I feel my blood sugar is dropping I need different things than when it is spiking.  I try to keep it level but that is not always possible.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

I’m back.

The tips I gave above are enough for some people. But not all. Some need the Prozac or other meds that Kassia mentioned. They might have certain hormones that are out of whack. And it’s not as simple as telling them to stop eating already. Depending on the cause for the uncontrollable eating it might be as insensitive as telling someone with OCD to stop washing their hands already.

Uncontrollable eating is actually not my issue but I have a lot of compassion for those who struggle with it. Our culture puts food (and frequently trigger food) in front of people constantly. Social engagements can be a mine field. So can the company break room. And so can home refrigerators and pantries. Trying to just do it on willpower can feel overwhelming especially if you feel like you are going to be walking those mine fields for the rest of your life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited December 30, 2017 by Jean in Newcastle

[maize]

I do not think I am doing what you say I’m doing. I have asked a lot of questions, such as what the article suggests is the solution; nobody has an answer to that question. Why would anyone want to think they are held hostage to their brain and body chemistry? Why would that be a relief?

 

I care about it because it bothers me that the US is only accellerating in obesity rates - at break-neck speed. I care that, as a PP put it, the US is an “obesogenic†society. I agree with this and want to see it change. It is hurting a lot of people and an unprecedented number of children and teens. I want to see the tide turn. I want to see it go back the other way. I don’t want to smugly sit by and say, “Oh well. Sorry people are getting fatter, but I’m not, so I don’t care.â€

 

If I could wave a magic wand, I would make it so that there was no such thing as the need for a post like this one.

We need more medical and research resources applied to the problem.

 

Examples of stuff that has come out of epigenetic research:

 

An obese father's DNA is modified in such a way that the DNA he passes to his offspring incline that offspring to gain and retain weight. (These specific modifications are passed on from fathers but not mothers.)

 

Note: this is epigenetic modification, not gene mutation.

 

A child whose mother experienced nutrition scarcity during pregnancy (could be famine conditions, or an eating disorder, or maybe hyperemesis) experiences epigenetic DNA modification that will incline them and their own offspring to gain and retain excessive weight.

 

What if we can learn to reverse those modifications?

Edited December 30, 2017 by maize

[Sandwalker]

I've never heard of this before...interesting.

 

From my own experience, I believe it's the brain. I was anorexic in the 90s and started losing control with huge binges. My doctor prescribed Prozac for me. I almost immediately lost the desire to binge. I believe the binging was caused by a lack of serotonin, and my brain was pushing me to binge on foods high in serotonin (lots and lots of carbs). Once the Prozac was providing serotonin, my brain didn't push me to binge anymore. Unfortunately, the effects of the Prozac wore off, but my response to the meds was fascinating to me and made me realize that it wasn't just an issue of willpower.

The prozac may have helped curb eating because it worked in your gut.

 

"There also is an interaction between the gut brain and drugs. According to Dr. Gershon, "when you make a drug to have psychic effects on the brain, it's very likely to have an effect on the gut that you didn't think about." He also believes that some drugs developed for the brain could have uses in the gut. For example, the gut is loaded with the neurotransmitter serotonin. According to Gershon, when pressure receptors in the gut's lining are stimulated, serotonin is released and starts the reflexive motion of peristalsis. A quarter of the people taking Prozac or similar antidepressants have gastrointestinal problems like nausea, diarrhea and constipation. These drugs act on serotonin, preventing its uptake by target cells so that it remains more abundant in the central nervous system.

 

Gershon also is conducting a study of the side effects of Prozac on the gut. Prozac in small doses can treat chronic constipation. Prozac in larger doses can cause constipation - where the colon actually freezes up. Moreover, because Prozac stimulates sensory nerves, it also can cause nausea."

http://www.psyking.net/id36.htm

 

Edited for typo

Edited December 30, 2017 by Sandwalker

[regentrude]

A child whose mother experienced nutrition scarcity during pregnancy (could be famine conditions, or an eating disorder, or maybe hyperemesis) experiences epigenetic DNA modification that will incline them and their own offspring to gain and retain excessive weight.

 

But if that is the dominating factor, shouldn't obesity be more widespread for example in the European countries where mothers lived through years of post WWII famine?

I find the epigenetics explanations very interesting, however, I don't see how they alone can explain the vast disparity between different countries.

Edited December 30, 2017 by regentrude

[ktgrok]

But if that is the dominating factor, shouldn't obesity be more widespread for example in the European countries where mothers lived through years of post WWII famine?

I find the epigenetics explanations very interesting, however, I don't see how they alone can explain the vast disparity between different countries.

Nothing is the single cause. These are all variou thing working in conjunction with each other.

[OneStepAtATime]

Nothing is the single cause. These are all variou thing working in conjunction with each other.

That is one of the many reasons this is so tricky.  There are so many factors involved that it is hard to tweak out not only what helps or harms an individual person vs. the population average but WHY.

 

For instance, I remember my grandmother had a friend (similar in age, size and health status) come over and the friend was complaining about a medication her doctor had prescribed her.  It made the woman feel awful and they wanted to change it.  Grandma was on that same medication for the same issue and had been fine using it.  Her friend describing the issues it was causing her scared Grandma and she wanted to change, too.  I had to convince her to talk to her doctor first AND to see what her friend's doctor said about why the med was causing the friend issues.  Turns out the friend was taking over the counter supplements she had not shared with her doctor and they were reacting with the medication.  Also, she had a mild allergy to one of the ingredients.  It took time to tweak out these two things since they were sort of masking each other.  Grandma, on the other hand, had neither factor in play.  The med was fine for her.

Edited December 30, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[Kassia]

The prozac may have helped curb eating because it worked in your gut.

 

"There also is an interaction between the gut brain and drugs. According to Dr. Gershon, "when you make a drug to have psychic effects on the brain, it's very likely to have an effect on the gut that you didn't think about." He also believes that some drugs developed for the brain could have uses in the gut. For example, the gut is loaded with the neurotransmitter serotonin. According to Gershon, when pressure receptors in the gut's lining are stimulated, serotonin is released and starts the reflexive motion of peristalsis. A quarter of the people taking Prozac or similar antidepressants have gastrointestinal problems like nausea, diarrhea and constipation. These drugs act on serotonin, preventing its uptake by target cells so that it remains more abundant in the central nervous system.

 

Gershon also is conducting a study of the side effects of Prozac on the gut. Prozac in small doses can treat chronic constipation. Prozac in larger doses can cause constipation - where the colon actually freezes up. Moreover, because Prozac stimulates sensory nerves, it also can cause nausea."

http://www.psyking.net/id36.htm

 

Edited for typo

 

So how do you fix the gut to control the cravings/compulsive eating?

[8circles]

The part that gets me is that I know hyper critical mothers who just find fault with everyone. I feel sorry for their kids. But I know that is just how they are.

 

I like Scarlett. I agree that she is trying to do what is best.

 

I think she may not see how selective her criticism is. I read the stepson’s failings in light with the memory that she could find no issue whatsoever with her biological son shooting the neighbor’s dog with a B.B. gun.

 

I don’t really think it is only the the oversharing that bothers people. I know when I really need advice, I share way too much.

 

It just seems like one child has no faults at all no matter what he does and the other has few redeeming qualities.

 

That good kid/bad kid dichotomy probably hits home for other boadies because they have experienced how damaging it can be.

 

Absolutely.

 

And if I ever found out that a parent felt this way about me - taking the totality of Scarlett's posts about this child - even if they only thought it and never wrote or spoke them, I'd never speak to them again.

[Sandwalker]

So how do you fix the gut to control the cravings/compulsive eating?

Probiotics, good ones, like Good Belly. Eating yogurt isn't enough. It's recommended to take it daily for 2 weeks. And if you like, cut out dairy, which is a huge craving trigger for many people, and is more addictive than morphine. Eat whole foods, fresh/frozen veggies and fruit, whole grains only, lots of fiber, lots of water. No high fructose corn syrup, limit sugar as much as possible. There are no easy answers to this complex issue, unfortunately!!

[Scarlett]

The part that gets me is that I know hyper critical mothers who just find fault with everyone. I feel sorry for their kids. But I know that is just how they are.

 

I like Scarlett. I agree that she is trying to do what is best.

 

I think she may not see how selective her criticism is. I read the stepson’s failings in light with the memory that she could find no issue whatsoever with her biological son shooting the neighbor’s dog with a B.B. gun.

 

I don’t really think it is only the the oversharing that bothers people. I know when I really need advice, I share way too much.

 

It just seems like one child has no faults at all no matter what he does and the other has few redeeming qualities.

 

That good kid/bad kid dichotomy probably hits home for other boadies because they have experienced how damaging it can be.

You have a good memory. I vent on my own son. I won’t be venting about anyone anymore because I am honestly freaked out by the tone toward me from some on here.

 

Every one reads things through their own lens. Like my mom who often tells me dss is held up as perfect and ds can’t do anything right. True story.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Scarlett

[amy g.]

You have a good memory. I vent on my own son. I won’t be venting about anyone anymore because I am honestly freaked out by the tone toward me from some on here.

 

Every one reads things through their own lens. Like my mom who often tells me dss is held up as perfect and ds can’t do anything right. True story.

I’m sorry for even bringing it up, because I remember how intense that thread was.

 

I agree that everyone is seeing things through their own lense. I just wanted to mention why this is a particularly hot button issue for some posters and others think the reaction is over the top insane-different lenses.

[kiana]

Nothing is the single cause. These are all variou thing working in conjunction with each other.

 

Yes.

 

One very interesting thing I haven't seen yet -- a while ago, a researcher came to talk to our school of public health to give a talk on "diabesity". There are some really interesting scientific results with social cohesion and obesity -- some have found little correlation but other studies have shown a higher degree, particularly among the elderly.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4675740/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2622771/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4794461/

 

I forgot where the link was (sorry) but they were talking about interventions specifically targeting social cohesion rather than targeting diet/exercise in any way as being a promising direction with some interesting early results -- not just in activity/bmi but in other areas as well. 

[unsinkable]

I’m sorry for even bringing it up, because I remember how intense that thread was.

 

I agree that everyone is seeing things through their own lense. I just wanted to mention why this is a particularly hot button issue for some posters and others think the reaction is over the top insane-different lenses.

Posters are implying Scarlett's son shouldn't live with her, that she's abusive, and that people can find out where she lives.

 

I truly hope everyone reading this understands the implications of that, and that once the line has been crossed, and approved by many people here, like it has been here today...it will happen again.

 

And God forbid it goes farther, and someone does it to a poster with minor children.

 

Because of a "hot button issue."

[OneStepAtATime]

It's a relief to know this isn't because you are a bad person, lazy, self sabotaging, etc. Trust me, that is a relief. A HUGE relief. You don't get that. You don't have to. You've never sat around hating yourself because of this. You've never wondered what is wrong with you that you are so pathetic. You don't get it, but we are telling it to you. Please listen and believe us. 

 

And yes, the truth is, that the statistics show that most obese people don't find a way to be no longer obese. No one wants that to be the truth, but it is. Which means, you can't do this casually. It has to be a massive effort, and probably should involve a medical expert to give you the best chance at success. Does it totally and completely stuck that science hasn't come up with a better answer? Yes, it does. But that's the truth and pretending otherwise because you don't like that answer isn't helpful to anyone. 

 

Again, as the people that have gone through it are telling you, that isn't helpful. 

I wanted to say I really appreciate you sharing so much in this thread.

 

As for the highlighted, this more than anything is what scares me for this child.  The statistics are not in his favor.  Even though SOME morbidly obese people have managed to lose weight with WW or MyFitnessPal or other similar systems, many have not and many, even if they have, end up gaining it back over time.  At least that is what I am reading from longer term studies and from what I have seen IRL with family/friends.

 

Tackling this as strictly a willpower issue can be very damaging but it is also unrealistic for long term ability to stay on top of the issue.  Most success stories that stay success stories over the long haul (and I am talking for the morbidly obese, not those that are overweight) involved accepting that this is a medical condition that needs to be tackled as such and may be a lifelong effort that needs external professional support systems to truly be successful long term.   

 

This does not mean it is impossible.  Far from it.  It means that this is a complex issue needing a long term view, recognition that each person has their own issues/strengths/biology so what worked for Sarah Soandso may not work for them, and a willingness to seek professional outside help (not just from the perspective of the person trying to lose the weight but from their family and friends as well - lack of understanding and support can be so harmful). 

 

I appreciate all the people who have dealt with this that have been willing to share and educate.

 

From my perspective, at least Scarlet is wanting to help.  She may not understand his issues but she admits she doesn't understand and is asking questions.  

[Frances]

But if that is the dominating factor, shouldn't obesity be more widespread for example in the European countries where mothers lived through years of post WWII famine?

I find the epigenetics explanations very interesting, however, I don't see how they alone can explain the vast disparity between different countries.

I've read lots of articles over the years that talk about how when our US fast food, soda, and junk food start to become widely available in other countries, especially less developed countries, they start down the path of increasing obesity levels and the associated health issues. It seems like food culture could probably account for a significant portion of the differences among countries.

 

Even though my mom was a wonderful cook and served healthy, well balanced meals, I was a picky eater as a child. Also, there were always lots of homemade baked goods around and lots of socials events all of the time with many unhealthy choices. Because I was picky, it was easy to primarily develop a taste for carbs, sweets, fruits, dairy, and meat. I've always been very active and never struggled with weight, but even now as a no longer picky adult, I consciously have to work every day make the healthy choices.

 

On the other hand, my son was never picky (we really lucked out there) and we rarely had any junk or sweets, even homemade, in our home. And he seems to literally not crave unhealthy food at all. As a young adult he has the healthiest diet of anyone I know, and even as a child had little to no interest in sweets or junk food at social events or friends' houses.

 

So it seems to me that the food culture in different countries would play at least some part in terms of laying the foundation that then interacts with all of the other factors discussed here.

[maize]

But if that is the dominating factor, shouldn't obesity be more widespread for example in the European countries where mothers lived through years of post WWII famine?

I find the epigenetics explanations very interesting, however, I don't see how they alone can explain the vast disparity between different countries.

I don't know that there is a single dominating factor.

 

It is a factor.

 

The Dutch Hunger Winter cohort (near the end of WWII) has in fact played a significant role in the study of epigenetics:

 

http://m.pnas.org/content/107/39/16757.full

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579375/

[Guest]

We need more medical and research resources applied to the problem.

 

Examples of stuff that has come out of epigenetic research:

 

An obese father's DNA is modified in such a way that the DNA he passes to his offspring incline that offspring to gain and retain weight. (These specific modifications are passed on from fathers but not mothers.)

 

Note: this is epigenetic modification, not gene mutation.

 

A child whose mother experienced nutrition scarcity during pregnancy (could be famine conditions, or an eating disorder, or maybe hyperemesis) experiences epigenetic DNA modification that will incline them and their own offspring to gain and retain excessive weight.

 

What if we can learn to reverse those modifications?

I’m not opposed to studying these issues; if we can find out more and develope other ways to manage food consumption issues, I am all in favor.

 

My instinctive reaction, though, is to disbelieve this is an important cause of the US’ obesity epidemic. For one thing, nutrition and food scarcity has been the norm throughout human history. Historically, only top-class people (kings, lords, tribal leaders) could even possibly be fat because the vast numbers of “regular people†could not access a surplus of food or lesiure. It was lucky if they could even access enough food to survive. Throughout history skinny = insufficient resources.