Dss16

[Kassia]

I agree with the thin privildege thing; I actually think that was one of the most astute posts I’ve ever read on these boards. (By Janie Grace)

 

But what kills me a little bit is that thin people are also scrutinized over food, which I am sure you have experienced if you have been thin. When I was at my thinnest, I was constantly assessed by people directly as well as behind my back, for whether or not I was anorexic. During that time, I also went vegetarian for a while, but that made the social scrutiny far worse. OTOH, (and this still happens to this day), if I eat heartily at any ocassion, people whisper about how I stay thin when I eat “like that.†I really just wish people would pay no attention to what I eat/don’t eat, but that is not what happens in this society.

 

I agree that people shouldn't be judging what others eat.  But, there is a big difference in how thin people and overweight people are treated when it comes to food.  Yes, thin people will get comments about how they are too skinny or how they should eat a burger or whatever, but thinness is definitely desirable over being overweight in our society and I don't think thin people experience the disgust and judgement that overweight people do.  People who don't struggle with their weight think it's just a question of willpower or making better choices, when it can be so much more complex than that.  Most doctors don't understand either and tell patients to lose weight without understanding why they are overweight.  

 

My DH and one of my sons have very high metabolisms and struggle to keep weight on and not be too thin.  They can eat and eat and eat and people are thrilled to see them eating huge quantities of food and/or high calorie foods.  If they were overweight and ate like that, most people would be horrified.  Yes, they sometimes get hurtful comments on how thin they are, but those comments are not meant as character flaws like they would be about someone who is overweight.  

 

I've been everywhere from underweight to obese, and people only talk about my weight directly to me when I am thin.  I don't even want to know what they say when I have been heavier.  It's so common for people to compliment you on weight loss, but very few people would say, "Wow, you've gained weight!"  I prefer no one comment on my weight at all - thin or heavy.  

[eternalsummer]

This is true, but what I am saying is that with smokers and smoking, people are quite willing to not imply that they/it is disgusting, but state it outright.  That is a significant difference.  Hardly anyone tries to protect smokers' feelings, or says things like "most people don't set out wanting to become smokers" or whatever - they just say, ugh, totally a deal breaker!  I would never live with a smoker!  What a terrible habit, etc.

 

But the mechanism of addiction is not all that different (as far as I understand) - there are different reasons people become addicted to different things, and different biological and psychological reasons that it is difficult to reverse the behavior, and people have different levels of natural resistance to/willpower against different drugs or substances.

 

 

I dunno, maybe we are sensitive to criticism of our own weaknesses or failings and not as sensitive to the criticism of others' weaknesses.

[Kassia]

 

 

Most people do not set out wanting to become fat.  Most people have tried to combat the rising scale from the beginning.  In fact for many, the whole idea of dieting itself has added to the weight gain.  (There is science behind this too but I don't want to dig it out to link.)  Most people have similar amounts of willpower - it's not like the thin people have more and the fat people have less. 

 

 

 

Exactly.  How many people actually want to be fat?  If it were that easy to lose weight and keep that weight off, most people would be at a healthy weight.  Just like addicts - no one wants to be an addict.  And willpower...people who diet have tremendous amounts of willpower.  The problem is that you can use that willpower 98% of the time and then cave and blow all of your hard work in a very small window of time.  So, you can be exercising willpower for the majority of the time, but still be overweight.  It's tough.  As I said earlier, I've lost weight and maintained that loss for years, but it's a struggle for me every minute of every day.  The obsession with staying thin is not healthy for me mentally or physically, and it affects my relationships in a negative way.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

This is true, but what I am saying is that with smokers and smoking, people are quite willing to not imply that they/it is disgusting, but state it outright.  That is a significant difference.  Hardly anyone tries to protect smokers' feelings, or says things like "most people don't set out wanting to become smokers" or whatever - they just say, ugh, totally a deal breaker!  I would never live with a smoker!  What a terrible habit, etc.

 

But the mechanism of addiction is not all that different (as far as I understand) - there are different reasons people become addicted to different things, and different biological and psychological reasons that it is difficult to reverse the behavior, and people have different levels of natural resistance to/willpower against different drugs or substances.

 

 

I dunno, maybe we are sensitive to criticism of our own weaknesses or failings and not as sensitive to the criticism of others' weaknesses.

 

This is the fallacy of False Equivalence.  Not all fat people have a food addiction for one thing.  There are lots of different reasons why someone can become overweight.  It isn't necessarily a weakness or a failing.  I know that you have a bias against believing that, but it is the truth. 

[Sandwalker]

.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Sandwalker

[scholastica]

Exactly. How many people actually want to be fat? If it were that easy to lose weight and keep that weight off, most people would be at a healthy weight. Just like addicts - no one wants to be an addict. And willpower...people who diet have tremendous amounts of willpower. The problem is that you can use that willpower 98% of the time and then cave and blow all of your hard work in a very small window of time. So, you can be exercising willpower for the majority of the time, but still be overweight. It's tough. As I said earlier, I've lost weight and maintained that loss for years, but it's a struggle for me every minute of every day. The obsession with staying thin is not healthy for me mentally or physically, and it affects my relationships in a negative way.

I liked your post to agree with you. I don’t like that you have to live with this.

[Kassia]

 

 

I'm sorry about that.  People can be so cruel - sadly, it's usually women hurting other women as you posted.  

 

My dd is tall and very thin (takes after DH).  She is careful with what she eats for health reasons, but doesn't have an eating disorder.  Her doctor has commented on her BMI and encouraged her to gain some weight, but I think that's the only comment she's ever had on her body size (other than being told she's tall all the time.  :p).  She can eat whatever she wants, though, and not have to think about how it affects her weight.  

Edited December 30, 2017 by Kassia

[scholastica]

I'm sorry about your daughter's experiences. People can be so cruel - sadly, it's usually women hurting other women as you posted.

 

My dd is tall and very thin (takes after DH). She is careful with what she eats for health reasons, but doesn't have an eating disorder. Her doctor has commented on her BMI and encouraged her to gain some weight, but I think that's the only comment she's ever had on her body size (other than being told she's tall all the time. :p). She can eat whatever she wants, though, and not have to think about how it affects her weight.

That can be dangerous. So many people who don’t have to watch what they eat, don’t. And then they develop hbp or diabetes that goes undiagnosed for a long time. I’m sure your dd knows how to eat healthily from watching you but many just never have to learn.

[eternalsummer]

This is the fallacy of False Equivalence.  Not all fat people have a food addiction for one thing.  There are lots of different reasons why someone can become overweight.  It isn't necessarily a weakness or a failing.  I know that you have a bias against believing that, but it is the truth. 

 

 

There are many different reasons why someone can become addicted to smoking, or to opiates, or to alcohol, and not all of them are weaknesses or failings either.

 

No, not all fat people have a food addiction, that is true.  I'm just talking about the ones who do, or the ones for whom their calorie requirement (for whatever reason - metabolism, nutritional deficiency, gut bacteria, medication, etc.) is lower than the amount that feels natural for them to eat.  For both sets of people (and for smokers), there is something they want to do - eat x number of calories, or x types of foods - that they cannot do without compromising their health.  Whether this is because they need 1400 calories and their body/brain combines to make them want to eat 1800 calories or because they need 800 calories and their body/brain combines to make them want to eat 1200 calories or because they need 1600 calories and their body/brain combines to make them want to eat 3000 calories - in any case, I don't see it as hugely different from when I needed to smoke 0 cigarettes a day but my brain chemistry and psychological addiction made me want to smoke 4 cigarettes a day.

 

Saying they are false equivalents, while in some ways true, is essentially the dichotomy in the ways people see different addictions that I am talking about.  Why would it be bad to associate smokers with people who overeat?  They are both suffering from a desire to do something that is not good for their bodies to do, and need various sorts of help to change the behavior.

[maize]

This is true, but what I am saying is that with smokers and smoking, people are quite willing to not imply that they/it is disgusting, but state it outright. That is a significant difference. Hardly anyone tries to protect smokers' feelings, or says things like "most people don't set out wanting to become smokers" or whatever - they just say, ugh, totally a deal breaker! I would never live with a smoker! What a terrible habit, etc.

 

But the mechanism of addiction is not all that different (as far as I understand) - there are different reasons people become addicted to different things, and different biological and psychological reasons that it is difficult to reverse the behavior, and people have different levels of natural resistance to/willpower against different drugs or substances.

 

 

I dunno, maybe we are sensitive to criticism of our own weaknesses or failings and not as sensitive to the criticism of others' weaknesses.

One difference is that cigarette smoke has a direct and negative impact on the people around the smoker. If I am fat, it impacts mostly me (with a few exceptions such as too small airline seats).

 

If I am a smoker and you are near me when I smoke, it impacts you as well. Even third hand smoke--the stuff clinging to clothes and such--can have a negative impact on other people.

 

When I was in middle school our bus driver smoked on the bus every day; I spent two hours on that bus every school day hardly able to breathe.

 

Horriblehorriblehorriblehorrible memories.

 

By the way, I don't think the driver was horrible--I don't have opinions one way or another on his personal character. But the smoke was horrible.

[eternalsummer]

Yes, that is a possibility I raised, that it is more stigmatised because the impact of smoking on others is both more obvious and more dire than the impact of overeating (which is largely just in public health costs and lost productivity).  

 

And I in general would like government to do less regulation of non-moral aspects of people's lives, so I'm not exactly campaigning for the federal government to start charging a $1 tax on happy meals, or anything. 

[scoutingmom]

There are many different reasons why someone can become addicted to smoking, or to opiates, or to alcohol, and not all of them are weaknesses or failings either.

 

No, not all fat people have a food addiction, that is true. I'm just talking about the ones who do, or the ones for whom their calorie requirement (for whatever reason - metabolism, nutritional deficiency, gut bacteria, medication, etc.) is lower than the amount that feels natural for them to eat. For both sets of people (and for smokers), there is something they want to do - eat x number of calories, or x types of foods - that they cannot do without compromising their health. Whether this is because they need 1400 calories and their body/brain combines to make them want to eat 1800 calories or because they need 800 calories and their body/brain combines to make them want to eat 1200 calories or because they need 1600 calories and their body/brain combines to make them want to eat 3000 calories - in any case, I don't see it as hugely different from when I needed to smoke 0 cigarettes a day but my brain chemistry and psychological addiction made me want to smoke 4 cigarettes a day.

 

Saying they are false equivalents, while in some ways true, is essentially the dichotomy in the ways people see different addictions that I am talking about. Why would it be bad to associate smokers with people who overeat? They are both suffering from a desire to do something that is not good for their bodies to do, and need various sorts of help to change the behavior.

But what if (for some reason) they had to smoke 1 cigarette a day. In this scenario, If they don't smoke 1 cigarette a day they would die after 30-60 days. 2 a day might be ok. More than that and they have health problems. And Everyone has to smoke cigarettes... most people smoke 2-4 a day with no problems. A few have a pack a day with no problems.

 

That would be a closer comparison. As hard as it is to quit smoking, it would be a lot harder to do the 1 cigarette a day in the scenario above.

 

One must eat to live.

 

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[Wheres Toto]

And, if we want to go farther down the rabbit hole, there is a vast difference at the checkout counters of stores that often serve a low-income demographic (Walmart, say, or certain gas stations) vs. stores that serve a higher-income demographic (Wegmans; gas stations in upscale areas). The Walmart has the most gigantic King-Sized candy bars I have ever seen. Each time I check out, I wonder who actually buys those. A gas station nearby had those Huge Reeses Cups at the counter - I think they are 2 lbs. (!] of chocolate. There’s no such thing at other stores. The fancier stores have things like Turkey Jerky or salted nut packs at the counter.

 

Our local Walmart has all of the above at the check-out counters - nuts, jerky, small packages of chips, gum, candy bars, as well as chapsticks, eyeglass repair kits, small toy items.

 

We have a fancier "gourmet" type grocery store near by.  They usually have really expensive candy at the registers - usually local brands I think.

[Guest]

I agree that people shouldn't be judging what others eat. But, there is a big difference in how thin people and overweight people are treated when it comes to food. Yes, thin people will get comments about how they are too skinny or how they should eat a burger or whatever, but thinness is definitely desirable over being overweight in our society and I don't think thin people experience the disgust and judgement that overweight people do. People who don't struggle with their weight think it's just a question of willpower or making better choices, when it can be so much more complex than that. Most doctors don't understand either and tell patients to lose weight without understanding why they are overweight.

 

My DH and one of my sons have very high metabolisms and struggle to keep weight on and not be too thin. They can eat and eat and eat and people are thrilled to see them eating huge quantities of food and/or high calorie foods. If they were overweight and ate like that, most people would be horrified. Yes, they sometimes get hurtful comments on how thin they are, but those comments are not meant as character flaws like they would be about someone who is overweight.

 

I've been everywhere from underweight to obese, and people only talk about my weight directly to me when I am thin. I don't even want to know what they say when I have been heavier. It's so common for people to compliment you on weight loss, but very few people would say, "Wow, you've gained weight!" I prefer no one comment on my weight at all - thin or heavy.

But there is your own sweeping judgement (in bold). I am thin. I don’t struggle with weight issues. I don’t think it is “just a matter of willpower.†I have said in this thread that I don’t even view myself as having willpower.

 

In your last paragraph - who would ever say, “Wow, you’ve gained weight!â€? I also think it’s tricky when someone does lose a large amount of weight, because some people love to be praised for that while others interpret it as, “Gee, I must have looked pretty terrible before!â€

 

In these threads, I often wonder if the posters here who have lost significant amounts of weight through WW or SparkPeople or My Fitness Pal get annoyed that weight loss through those means is simply not possible or is some miraculous fluke.

[eternalsummer]

But what if (for some reason) they had to smoke 1 cigarette a day. In this scenario, If they don't smoke 1 cigarette a day they would die after 30-60 days. 2 a day might be ok. More than that and they have health problems. And Everyone has to smoke cigarettes... most people smoke 2-4 a day with no problems. A few have a pack a day with no problems.

 

That would be a closer comparison. As hard as it is to quit smoking, it would be a lot harder to do the 1 cigarette a day in the scenario above.

 

One must eat to live.

 

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I agree, it's very hard to not eat too much when you do have to eat some.  Perhaps this is part of the reason obesity is so much more widespread in the US than smoking (about twice as prevalent) - but I dunno, 50 years ago smoking was probably twice as prevalent as obesity, so obviously there are other factors present.

 

 

But for the people who do smoke even though they know smoking is bad for them, I don't see how you can say that they have an easier time quitting than people who overeat even though they know overeating is bad for them.  Various factors might make smoking easier to quit for you or Joe down the street, but they obviously haven't made it easier to quit for Anne Who Smokes.

[scoutingmom]

I agree, it's very hard to not eat too much when you do have to eat some. Perhaps this is part of the reason obesity is so much more widespread in the US than smoking (about twice as prevalent) - but I dunno, 50 years ago smoking was probably twice as prevalent as obesity, so obviously there are other factors present.

 

 

But for the people who do smoke even though they know smoking is bad for them, I don't see how you can say that they have an easier time quitting than people who overeat even though they know overeating is bad for them. Various factors might make smoking easier to quit for you or Joe down the street, but they obviously haven't made it easier to quit for Anne Who Smokes.

Yes that is true. But that is the nature of addiction....

 

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[maize]

I agree, it's very hard to not eat too much when you do have to eat some. Perhaps this is part of the reason obesity is so much more widespread in the US than smoking (about twice as prevalent) - but I dunno, 50 years ago smoking was probably twice as prevalent as obesity, so obviously there are other factors present.

 

 

But for the people who do smoke even though they know smoking is bad for them, I don't see how you can say that they have an easier time quitting than people who overeat even though they know overeating is bad for them. Various factors might make smoking easier to quit for you or Joe down the street, but they obviously haven't made it easier to quit for Anne Who Smokes.

Well, smoking was one of the factors preventing obesity in the past.

 

As it still is in many European countries.

 

When a high percentage of the population regularly uses an appetite suppressant drug, obesity rates are bound to be lower.

Edited December 30, 2017 by maize

[ktgrok]

In these threads, I often wonder if the posters here who have lost significant amounts of weight through WW or SparkPeople or My Fitness Pal get annoyed that weight loss through those means is simply not possible or is some miraculous fluke.

 

They shouls be happy they beat the odds because statistically most people don't.

[Wheres Toto]

"Wow you've lost weight!" is always considered a compliment.  But I know someone who said that and made a big deal about a weight loss to someone who was dying of cancer.    :glare:   And yes, they knew.

[scoutingmom]

 

 

In these threads, I often wonder if the posters here who have lost significant amounts of weight through WW or SparkPeople or My Fitness Pal get annoyed that weight loss through those means is simply not possible or is some miraculous fluke.

That seems rather snarky...

[Kassia]

That can be dangerous. So many people who don’t have to watch what they eat, don’t. And then they develop hbp or diabetes that goes undiagnosed for a long time. I’m sure your dd knows how to eat healthily from watching you but many just never have to learn.

 

In our case, my dd is a very healthy eater but I am not.  Actually, all of my kids have good diets and encourage me to eat better.  I restrict a lot to maintain my weight and my diet isn't balanced.  And I sometimes binge on sugary foods (more often now with the holiday temptations around).  My DH, on the other hand, is naturally thin and eats crap most of the time.  It worries me.  

 

 

But there is your own sweeping judgement (in bold). I am thin. I don’t struggle with weight issues. I don’t think it is “just a matter of willpower.†I have said in this thread that I don’t even view myself as having willpower.

 

In your last paragraph - who would ever say, “Wow, you’ve gained weight!â€? I also think it’s tricky when someone does lose a large amount of weight, because some people love to be praised for that while others interpret it as, “Gee, I must have looked pretty terrible before!â€

 

 

 

I apologize.  I didn't mean to generalize and that's not how I feel.  I certainly don't think that everyone who doesn't have weight issues doesn't have empathy or any understanding of those who do.  And I agree that it's very tricky to know what to say to those who lose weight.  I have a friend who was upset when she didn't get comments on her weight loss when she worked so hard for it and then there's me who is very uncomfortable when people comment on my body size.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

But there is your own sweeping judgement (in bold). I am thin. I don’t struggle with weight issues. I don’t think it is “just a matter of willpower.†I have said in this thread that I don’t even view myself as having willpower.

 

In your last paragraph - who would ever say, “Wow, you’ve gained weight!â€? I also think it’s tricky when someone does lose a large amount of weight, because some people love to be praised for that while others interpret it as, “Gee, I must have looked pretty terrible before!â€

 

In these threads, I often wonder if the posters here who have lost significant amounts of weight through WW or SparkPeople or My Fitness Pal get annoyed that weight loss through those means is simply not possible or is some miraculous fluke.

Why would anyone be anything other than happy for them? Unless you are a really mean person wouldn’t you want things to work for other people? Those programs do work for some people. And hopefully it works in a way that is lasting. (A large percentage of people lose weight and then gain it back again and then some. The same person- with the same character. ).

[Kassia]

"Wow you've lost weight!" is always considered a compliment.  But I know someone who said that and made a big deal about a weight loss to someone who was dying of cancer.    :glare:   And yes, they knew.

 

Oh, that's awful about the person who was dying of cancer.  :(  That is usually what I think of when people comment on weight loss as being such a positive thing without knowing the circumstances.  My SIL died from breast cancer and wasted away to just skin and bones before she died.  After she died and I had lost some weight, my FIL said to me, "You're looking nice and skinny!" I was stunned that he said that after what my SIL (his dd) went through, but I know he meant it as a compliment.  I had a lot of people comment on my weight loss.  Very few were careful with what they said - one did ask if I was okay and another said I was looking very fit.  I liked the fit comment the best, but I still prefer that people don't comment on my body size.  One of my big fears (and I don't know why I worry about this) is that I'll gain weight back and people will notice and comment about it behind my back.  When you lose weight, people are happy to tell you how great you are looking, but no one will say anything directly to you when you gain (except for maybe some very rude people!).  

[Jean in Newcastle]

I personally think that disordered eating can come in all sizes including those at the “perfect weight “. If it takes over your thinking and affects all aspects of your life or your relationships then I would wonder how healthy your relationship is with food. (I realize that people can and often should be purposeful in what they ingest without it being unbalanced. I’m talking about more than that ).

 

 

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[AmandaVT]

"Wow you've lost weight!" is always considered a compliment.  But I know someone who said that and made a big deal about a weight loss to someone who was dying of cancer.    :glare:   And yes, they knew.

 

Not always - I lost 40 lbs years ago and hated all the comments I received on my looks. I don't like to be in the spotlight in general and hearing how good I looked, or how much weight I lost only made me think "wow, how bad did everyone think I looked before?" I need to lose about 40 (or more if I am really being honest with myself) again and I'm already dreading the comments.

[eternalsummer]

Well, smoking was one of the factors preventing obesity in the past.

 

As it still is in many European countries.

 

When a high percentage of the population regularly uses an appetite suppressant drug, obesity rates are bound to be lower.

 

I hadn't thought of that!

[kiana]

In these threads, I often wonder if the posters here who have lost significant amounts of weight through WW or SparkPeople or My Fitness Pal get annoyed that weight loss through those means is simply not possible or is some miraculous fluke.

 

Yeah, I kinda do. One big reason it bothers me is that I'd given up on the idea myself until a friend convinced me to join MyFitnessPal and give it one last shot. I probably wouldn't have been ready to give it a shot if my fiance hadn't just dumped me for a really stupid reason. 

 

I think that we need to not lie about how rough and slow it is, though. I see people getting frustrated because "I have eaten on plan for an entire month and only lost 5 pounds!" and in reality that is a perfectly reasonable and sustainable rate of weight loss. We see those idiotic magazine covers with "Lose 15 pounds in a month!" and we think that is attainable without either a starvation diet or starting with a tremendous amount to lose. We also need to be realistic about how challenging maintenance is, too. It is just not a "I finished my diet, now I can go back to eating just like I did before!" unless you want to be dieting again next year. That's like "I cleaned my house, now I'm done!" 

[Sandwalker]

I'm sorry about your daughter's experiences. People can be so cruel - sadly, it's usually women hurting other women as you posted.

 

My dd is tall and very thin (takes after DH). She is careful with what she eats for health reasons, but doesn't have an eating disorder. Her doctor has commented on her BMI and encouraged her to gain some weight, but I think that's the only comment she's ever had on her body size (other than being told she's tall all the time. :p). She can eat whatever she wants, though, and not have to think about how it affects her weight.

Thank you. I agree about it being puzzling why women can be so hurtful about weight.

 

Would you mind deleting my quote in post #580? Sorry, I feel that I violated my dd's privacy. Thank you. (Tried to pm but it wouldn't go through)

[eternalsummer]

Yeah, I kinda do. One big reason it bothers me is that I'd given up on the idea myself until a friend convinced me to join MyFitnessPal and give it one last shot. I probably wouldn't have been ready to give it a shot if my fiance hadn't just dumped me for a really stupid reason. 

 

I think that we need to not lie about how rough and slow it is, though. I see people getting frustrated because "I have eaten on plan for an entire month and only lost 5 pounds!" and in reality that is a perfectly reasonable and sustainable rate of weight loss. We see those idiotic magazine covers with "Lose 15 pounds in a month!" and we think that is attainable without either a starvation diet or starting with a tremendous amount to lose. We also need to be realistic about how challenging maintenance is, too. It is just not a "I finished my diet, now I can go back to eating just like I did before!" unless you want to be dieting again next year. That's like "I cleaned my house, now I'm done!" 

 

 

I think a similar thing happens with smoking; I remember (when I was still smoking) reading that the average ex-smoker quits like a dozen times before it's successful.  It's so easy to lose hope when you've tried a bunch of different things that didn't work (and often tried the same thing multiple times), but that statistic really made me say to myself, well, maybe this time it will take.

[maize]

So sort of relevant to this discussion: I'm participating in a weight loss study through 23andMe starting in January. They're running three groups--if memory serves, group 1 focuses on decreasing carbs, group 2 on adding fiber, and group 3 on increasing physical activity. I got assigned to group 3, which I am happy about as I am primarily concerned with better fitness and overall health.

 

They've got our genetic info so maybe they'll be able to tease out which approach works best for people with different genetic profiles.

 

I'm not actually super prone to weight gain but I have held onto an extra 5-10 lbs after each pregnancy, especially these last few, and that adds up after 7 kids! I miss the days when I was young and fit :) young is never coming back, and I don't really expect slender to come back, but I am hoping to see fit again.

Edited December 30, 2017 by maize

[kiana]

So sort of relevant to this discussion: I'm participating in a weight loss study through 23andMe starting in January. They're running three groups--if memory serves, group 1 focuses on decreasing carbs, group 2 on adding fiber, and group 3 on increasing physical activity. I got assigned to group 3, which I am happy about as I am primarily concerned with better fitness and overall health.

 

They've got our genetic info so maybe they'll be able to tease out which approach works best for people with different genetic profiles.

 

I'm not actually super prone to weight gain but I have held onto an extra 5-10 lbs after each pregnancy, especially these last few, and that adds up after 7 kids! I miss the days when I was young and fit :) young is never coming back, and I don't really expect slender to come back, but I am hoping to see fit again.

 

Sounds like a winner. Even if you lose no weight, you'll still be fitter!

[Scarlett]

So sort of relevant to this discussion: I'm participating in a weight loss study through 23andMe starting in January. They're running three groups--if memory serves, group 1 focuses on decreasing carbs, group 2 on adding fiber, and group 3 on increasing physical activity. I got assigned to group 3, which I am happy about as I am primarily concerned with better fitness and overall health.

 

They've got our genetic info so maybe they'll be able to tease out which approach works best for people with different genetic profiles.

 

I'm not actually super prone to weight gain but I have held onto an extra 5-10 lbs after each pregnancy, especially these last few, and that adds up after 7 kids! I miss the days when I was young and fit :) young is never coming back, and I don't really expect slender to come back, but I am hoping to see fit again.

This sounds interesting!

[Guest]

 

That seems rather snarky...

I don’t intend it as snarky. I think, if I were one of the members here who lost 50-100 lbs. using a controlled eating method, it would really annoy me to have my hard work and my long journey sort of discredited as if I were just one of those lucky people who does lose weight by logging my food consumption on My Fitness Pal.

[eternalsummer]

I think, rather, that if you had lost 100 lbs with My Fitness Pal, you'd be one of those lucky people who had found the thing that, coupled with hard work and a long journey, allowed you to lose the weight (instead of being one of the unlucky people who still hasn't found the thing that suits their personality or biology or brain chemistry or whatever well enough so that they can use it, combined with hard work, to lose weight).

 

[Guest]

Why would anyone be anything other than happy for them? Unless you are a really mean person wouldn’t you want things to work for other people? Those programs do work for some people. And hopefully it works in a way that is lasting. (A large percentage of people lose weight and then gain it back again and then some. The same person- with the same character. ).

I don’t think you understand my meaning. (i was typing while starting a movie, so maybe that is why I was unclear.) I’m saying, suppose AnonymousPoster lost 100 lbs. over a year and a half, using My Fitness Pal goals. And then she comes into a thread like this and sees people/articles that seem to say that her accomplishment was some sort of lucky fluke. It discredits all she has gone through.

 

The problem I have with the article linked a couple pages ago is that there is no proposed solution; it is pretty much telling the reader that if you are already obese, you are a slave to your now-dysfunctional hormone signalling and brain chemistry. Short of medical intervention, you pretty much can’t do a thing and if you try you are bound to fail spectacularly and get fatter still. The article seems to promote impotence or the belief that only doctors or drug interventions or surgery can save you from your screwed-up self. I think it is a crappy message. I have seen people lose weight many times and retain their new lifestyle and fitness level, even as I have also seen people do something short-term (Atkins, South Beach) only to spring right back to the same weight.

 

I do not think it is a benefit to society to tell people they probably can’t sucessfully lose weight and that trying is futile.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don’t think you understand my meaning. (i was typing while starting a movie, so maybe that is why I was unclear.) I’m saying, suppose AnonymousPoster lost 100 lbs. over a year and a half, using My Fitness Pal goals. And then she comes into a thread like this and sees people/articles that seem to say that her accomplishment was some sort of lucky fluke. It discredits all she has gone through.

 

The problem I have with the article linked a couple pages ago is that there is no proposed solution; it is pretty much telling the reader that if you are already obese, you are a slave to your now-dysfunctional hormone signalling and brain chemistry. Short of medical intervention, you pretty much can’t do a thing and if you try you are bound to fail spectacularly and get fatter still. The article seems to promote impotence or the belief that only doctors or drug interventions or surgery can save you from your screwed-up self. I think it is a crappy message. I have seen people lose weight many times and retain their new lifestyle and fitness level, even as I have also seen people do something short-term (Atkins, South Beach) only to spring right back to the same weight.

 

I do not think it is a benefit to society to tell people they probably can’t sucessfully lose weight and that trying is futile.

No. That poster could feel fortunate to have a. found the method that works for him/ her and b. to have a body that did not need medical intervention. It’s like some people can treat high blood pressure with diet and exercise but some need medical intervention. There is no moral “points “ for not needing medical help. And there is no moral “ding “ for needing medical help. Or vice versa. Edited December 30, 2017 by Jean in Newcastle

[Jean in Newcastle]

It’s scientific fact that most bodies have certain metabolic changes with a certain amount of weight gain. It’s not poor sportsmanship to note that fact.

 

 

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[Guest]

No. That poster could feel fortunate to have a. found the method that works for him/ her and b. to have a body that did not need medical intervention. It’s like some people can treat high blood pressure with diet and exercise but some need medical intervention. There is no moral “points “ for not needing medical help. And there is no more “ding “ for needing medical help. Or vice versa.

But they have put in the hard work and I think they should get to feel proud of that.

[maize]

But they have put in the hard work and I think they should get to feel proud of that.

Yes.

 

And they should also recognize that not everyone who puts in the exact same work will get the same results.

[ktgrok]

But they have put in the hard work and I think they should get to feel proud of that.

 

Of course they should! Mst people won't climb mount everest but that doesn't mean we belittle the efforts of those that do! It makes them even more impressive!!!!

[eternalsummer]

It is sometimes hard to thread the needle between lauding what we consider good traits - self-control and temperance in this case - and not denigrating people who either have less of them by nature or who have to have more of them to have the same affect as other people.

 

This is true about everything, though - we can understand the factors that lead someone to drug addiction or to violent crime or to neglecting their children, and say, look, this person has had a harder time of it in these various ways than I have had, and but for the grace of God there go I - while at the same time censuring (or condemning, depending on the severity) the behavior in the abstract and trying to correct it in the incarnate (through sin taxes or advertisement or education or punishment or medical assistance or a million other things).

 

DH likes to say that people do the best they can.  Sometimes their best isn't good enough for one thing or another, but it is still the best they had to offer (you can tell because it is what they did).  What the Tao Te Ching says is, "When the work is done, Everyone says We just acted naturally. "

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yes.

 

And they should also recognize that not everyone who puts in the exact same work will get the same results.

Exactly.

[Rosie_0801]

So sort of relevant to this discussion: I'm participating in a weight loss study through 23andMe starting in January. They're running three groups--if memory serves, group 1 focuses on decreasing carbs, group 2 on adding fiber, and group 3 on increasing physical activity. I got assigned to group 3, which I am happy about as I am primarily concerned with better fitness and overall health.

 

They've got our genetic info so maybe they'll be able to tease out which approach works best for people with different genetic profiles.

 

I'm not actually super prone to weight gain but I have held onto an extra 5-10 lbs after each pregnancy, especially these last few, and that adds up after 7 kids! I miss the days when I was young and fit :) young is never coming back, and I don't really expect slender to come back, but I am hoping to see fit again.

 

It's a shame they don't have a group controlling for probiotics and such.

[amy g.]

My dad was in a long term weight loss trial.

 

One group was told yearly that they really should lose weight. And that is all.

 

The other group that my dad was in got weekly meetings, nutritional education some cases of meal replacement shakes (which I’m not a fan of) and ongoing support after they lose the weight. I remember my dad winning prizes for keeping of more than 10% of his starting weight each consecutive year.

 

In the end, they are comparing how much each group costs.

 

The second cost more for prevention, but much less overall because the people in the second group had fewer diseases and complications and medical emergencies.

 

The bottom line is that it isn’t something easy to just do alone by sheer willpower.

[Osprey]

I wish that the focus of these sorts of conversations (in the world, not just referring to here) was on eating healthful foods and having movement and exercise incorporated into your day, instead of on some magic number on a scale.

People can be healthy or unhealthy at all different sizes.

I guess the problem is that health is often not something we can surmise from just looking at a person. Also, doctors and nutritionists and dieticians all seem to have different ideas of what is healthy and what is not.

[ktgrok]

I wish that the focus of these sorts of conversations (in the world, not just referring to here) was on eating healthful foods and having movement and exercise incorporated into your day, instead of on some magic number on a scale.

People can be healthy or unhealthy at all different sizes.

I guess the problem is that health is often not something we can surmise from just looking at a person. Also, doctors and nutritionists and dieticians all seem to have different ideas of what is healthy and what is not.

 

Yes and no. A skinny person can be healthy or unhealthy. An overweight person, also I'd say. But someone morbidly obese is not healthy. Yes, my cholesterol was fine, my blood pressure was fine. But something was out of whack medically just by virtue of my size. My weight impacted my joints. It put extra strain on my heart, so although everything was fine now, it was a matter of time. My lab work was great, but an ultrasound showed I had the beginnings of fatty liver disease. Morbidly obese is not healthy. Especially once we talk about super morbidly obese. 

 

A friend who has been obese since high school at least, and overweight since childhood, recently saw his doctor.Anyway, his doctor asked him, "hey, did you see that old guy in the waiting room - the one about your size?" My friend said, "no". And the doctor said, "that's right, because guys your size don't get to be old. They die young."

 

I say this to make the argument that medical insurance and public health need to view this as a disease, and provide appropriate medical treatment (many do). Not because I disagree that we shouldn't focus on health vs the scale. But we also can't pretend that serious obesity doesn't shorten lives, even when the person is trying to be active, eating healthy food, etc. 

Edited December 30, 2017 by ktgrok

[Joyofsixreboot]

I read it. I read a lot of stuff.

 

I also live with two extremes. I was in my son's room ealier and found the box of breakfast bars I put in there 10 days ago. He has eaten 2 bars.

 

Our actions affect our outcomes.

True but why we make those choices are the difference. I've come to believe really we are just a bag of chemicals mostly doing what the chemicals tell us.

 

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[Sneezyone]

I don't even think I have anything to say this time around. I'm just so sad for this poor boy.

I really wish there were another responsible family member who could take him in. It makes me angry to see this kid’s business put out like this on a regular basis. He deserves better.

[unsinkable]

I really wish there were another responsible family member who could take him in. It makes me angry to see this kid’s business put out like this on a regular basis. He deserves better.

This is so inappropriate. To imply Scarlett is not responsible and her son shouldn't be living there? Disgusting.

 

Scarlett has made some good decisons, and is moving in a positive direction, based on information posters have shared here. She's posting bc she needs help.

[Sneezyone]

This is so inappropriate. To imply Scarlett is not responsible and her son shouldn't be living there? Disgusting.

 

Scarlett has made some good decisons, and is moving in a positive direction, based on information posters have shared here. She's posting bc she needs help.

No child deserves to be talked about this way on the Internet on a regular basis. I don’t care how well-intentioned you are as a parent, if you’re violating your child’s privacy on the regular, to include discussing rather embarrassing personal details and unveiled insults, you need to do better. It’s disgusting that everyone here has been told by what should be a trusted adult that this NT child ‘pees on the floor’, is a fat, lazy slob, and can do no right/has no self-control. Heck, he can’t even date right according to Scarlett. All of this, and more, was said by his ‘parent’. THAT is disgusting and it really needs to stop. It’s bordering on abusive. Edited December 30, 2017 by Sneezyone