Dss16

[ktgrok]

“that —

Was so good, I could keep eating it.†But he doesn’t. He stops by decision.

 

 

 

But I assume he is no longer hungry, right? He's full but it does taste good so he could eat more. Thats still what I would call satiated.

[Guest]

Other things that effect the overall obesity levels in the population include less NEAT...non exercise activity. A man 100 years ago would have eaten about the same calories as a man now, but burned more, keeping the metabolism going by constantly moving. Now, for someone who is already obese that won't fix it...I worked in a veterinary hospital doing 9-12 hour shifts...never sitting down, and didn't lose an ounce after the first week. My body adjusted.

This is not what I have read and my observations of food consumption also say this is not accurate. I do not recall the exact statistics, so sorry about that, but there is a clear increase in overall calories consumed just in the past few decades. There has also been a massive increase in the amount of sugar the average person consumes in a year.

 

Culturally, it also is not hard to see the truth of this. The sizes of things like a soft drink are much larger. Costco-sized packages of things that people once would never dream of keeping in their home (let alone no space, no dedicated pantry, no giant refrigerators). The prevalance of specialty coffee drinks, for example, that are hundreds and hundreds of calories.

 

Socially, things are now acceptble in public that would have astonished my grandmother’s contemporaries. I went to pay for my goods at the CVS checkout last week and the cashier was sucking on a lollipop. I find that to be exceedingly unmannerly. My grandmother would have fainted away from shock, lol. Walking around eating (let alone eating *while* serving the public) is not socially taboo in the US anymore. I do not think this acceptance of mindless eating has served our society well.

 

I do agree that we get less non-exercise activity on average than past generations, though.

[unsinkable]

That's good to know.

 

It would be easier to 'give you credit' for that sort of thing if you mentioned it in your posting. I can't imagine any other way your readers would be able to infer that it occurred.

Start by assuming the best of Scarlett and that she's a good mom.

 

It is just that easy.

[Guest]

But I assume he is no longer hungry, right? He's full but it does taste good so he could eat more. Thats still what I would call satiated.

Well, hunger is abated within eating a couple bites of food. He is not stopping because he’s “fullâ€. He’s stopping because he knows he has eaten a reasonable amount of food. He could eat another helping and because it tastes yummy and is pleasurable, he is tempted to, but he does not want to make a habit of overeating, so he stops.

[Sandwalker]

How does that square with the rapid increase in obesity rates in the US? It is precipitating faster than genetics explains. And there are many, many obese teens and children whose mother has never been overweight in her life.

Many kids do not go outside and play anymore. Less recess, more homework, after school care, etc. They are inside, sitting down the vast majority of the day. :/ In addition, fast food is fattening, addictive, and not good for children. And soda, don't get me started.

[bolt.]

Start by assuming the best of Scarlett and that she's a good mom.

 

It is just that easy.

I do assume that Scarlett is a good parent.

 

Lots of good parents miscommunicate by expecting kids and teens to be great at interpretation and not take things personally/hurtfully.

 

Are you saying that in your experience only bad parents make that particular mistake? In my experience it's quite a common mistake.

 

Should I assume everyone (but me) is such a good parent that their apparent/reported mistakes that they post here just probably didn't actually happen?

 

I don't really get how that works. In real life, I don't presume the flawlessness of my peers. I assume that they are my peers and, therefore, I assume that they make parenting errors pretty regularly.

[Sandwalker]

My point was for him to stop and think and be honest with himself.

Good advice for us all.

[Guest]

Many kids do not go outside and play anymore. Less recess, more homework, after school care, etc. They are inside, sitting down the vast majority of the day. :/ In addition, fast food is fattening, addictive, and not good for children. And soda, don't get me started.

I agree this happens, but do not think this is the entire reason, either. (Of course. It is complex, which I do not think you were disputing.)

[Sandwalker]

No matter how many times you say something to me it doesn't make it true.

If DSS was struggling with math, and brought his C- up to a C, would you ask how he thought he did it, or would you high five and say Keep it up, kiddo.

[unsinkable]

I do assume that Scarlett is a good parent.

 

Lots of good parents miscommunicate by expecting kids and teens to be great at interpretation and not take things personally/hurtfully.

 

Are you saying that in your experience only bad parents make that particular mistake? In my experience it's quite a common mistake.

 

Should I assume everyone (but me) is such a good parent that their apparent/reported mistakes that they post here just probably didn't actually happen?

 

I don't really get how that works. In real life, I don't presume the flawlessness of my peers. I assume that they are my peers and, therefore, I assume that they make parenting errors pretty regularly.

What are You talking about? Scarlett doesn't have "reported mistakes" in her posts.

 

She's posting...And some people are responding in a way that starts for negative assumptions about how she is as a mother.

[Sandwalker]

I agree this happens, but do not think this is the entire reason, either. (Of course. It is complex, which I do not think you were disputing.)

Yes, I was just adding to a previous poster's comments.

[bolt.]

What are You talking about? Scarlett doesn't have "reported mistakes" in her posts.

 

She's posting...And some people are responding in a way that starts for negative assumptions about how she is as a mother.

We must be talking past each other.

 

What I mean by 'reported mistakes' is that people sometimes discribe their actions, and that those actions aren't always flawless. Sometimes they discribe actions that they took and/or things that they said that weren't excellent... Scarlet reported that she said something, and then posted (perhaps sarcastically) that it might have been said wrong.

 

I agreed that it may well have been said wrong (a parenting mistake) explored the nature of that sort of mistake, and suggested an alternate script to avoid that sort of mistake in the future.

 

None of that means that I hold negative assumptions about how she is as a mother.

 

If she did make that mistake, she is a fine mother who makes mistakes like that one.

 

If she didn't make that mistake, she is a fine mother who makes other types of mistakes.

 

I don't know any mothers who don't make various kinds of mistakes. They are all good mothers.

[Scarlett]

If DSS was struggling with math, and brought his C- up to a C, would you ask how he thought he did it, or would you high five and say Keep it up, kiddo.

I would definitely ask him how he did it. Along with a high five and keep it up.

[unsinkable]

We must be talking past each other.

 

What I mean by 'reported mistakes' is that people sometimes discribe their actions, and that those actions aren't always flawless. Sometimes they discribe actions that they took and/or things that they said that weren't excellent... Scarlet reported that she said something, and then posted (perhaps sarcastically) that it might have been said wrong.

 

I agreed that it may well have been said wrong (a parenting mistake) explored the nature of that sort of mistake, and suggested an alternate script to avoid that sort of mistake in the future.

 

None of that means that I hold negative assumptions about how she is as a mother.

 

If she did make that mistake, she is a fine mother who makes mistakes like that one.

 

If she didn't make that mistake, she is a fine mother who makes other types of mistakes.

 

I don't know any mothers who don't make various kinds of mistakes. They are all good mothers.

I'm responding to tell you I've read this and I'm too tired to write any more right now. Thanks for the reply.

[Scarlett]

We must be talking past each other.

 

What I mean by 'reported mistakes' is that people sometimes discribe their actions, and that those actions aren't always flawless. Sometimes they discribe actions that they took and/or things that they said that weren't excellent... Scarlet reported that she said something, and then posted (perhaps sarcastically) that it might have been said wrong.

 

I agreed that it may well have been said wrong (a parenting mistake) explored the nature of that sort of mistake, and suggested an alternate script to avoid that sort of mistake in the future.

 

None of that means that I hold negative assumptions about how she is as a mother.

 

If she did make that mistake, she is a fine mother who makes mistakes like that one.

 

If she didn't make that mistake, she is a fine mother who makes other types of mistakes.

 

I don't know any mothers who don't make various kinds of mistakes. They are all good mothers.

Well you are correct I was sarcastically saying I 'said it wrong', because that seems to be the prevailing opinion of everything I say to my Dss. He seemed ok with my comments.

[bolt.]

Double post (sorry)

Edited December 28, 2017 by bolt.

[ktgrok]

Well, hunger is abated within eating a couple bites of food. He is not stopping because he’s “fullâ€. He’s stopping because he knows he has eaten a reasonable amount of food. He could eat another helping and because it tastes yummy and is pleasurable, he is tempted to, but he does not want to make a habit of overeating, so he stops.

 

An obese person is likely still hungry after a few bites. 

[eternalsummer]

Also as to why there's not a lot of pressure when people first start gaining weight to say, hold the phone, what is going on, let's fix this now - I think in general, right now, society is a lot kinder and more understanding of food-addicted people than of alcoholics or cigarette smokers or gamblers or people addicted to meth or a zillion other things.  Part of this, imo, is how widespread it is; part of it is that overweight people are not as overtly burdensome on society as smokers (through secondhand smoke and lung disease costs) or alcoholics (through drunk driving, other social problems, liver disease costs) or people who are addicted to various illegal drugs (I've lived in a meth town and it was craaazy).  The burden is still there in health care costs and reduced productivity and etc. but it is less in-your-face, and so there is more tolerance.

 

On the other hand, there is (obviously) still a fair amount of stigma attached to being overweight.  The stigma, along with taxes and physical restrictions, reduced smoking rates, but I don't know how much stigma reduces obesity.

 

 

 

[Scarlett]

I was definitely the one saying, 'um, hey this kid is steadily gaining weight! Maybe something should be done to help him?' It was really only when the scale said 303 that Dh 'heard' me.

[OneStepAtATime]

I was definitely the one saying, 'um, hey this kid is steadily gaining weight! Maybe something should be done to help him?' It was really only when the scale said 303 that Dh 'heard' me.

I do remember you posting long ago about concerns you had.  You had definitely noticed.  It wasn't like you turned a blind eye for years and years then suddenly woke up one day and said "Woe when did this happen?".  But he wasn't living with you and your DH at that time and as the step parent you didn't have a ton of control over the situation as I recall.

[Scarlett]

I do remember you posting long ago about concerns you had. You had definitely noticed. It wasn't like you turned a blind eye for years and years then suddenly woke up one day and said "Woe when did this happen?". But he wasn't living with you and your DH at that time and as the step parent you didn't have a ton of control over the situation as I recall.

LOL good point. I forgot that part of it.

[freesia]

About the hunger and eating--before I learned I was insulin resistant it was harder to stop eating bc I was SO hungry (from all the insulin--which increases hunger). Stopping like Quills dh would have been/was super hard. Once my blood sugar was under control it is much much easier. Really not hard at all. The difference is so big and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't lived it. I can pass by food all the time now. And the only difference is my blood sugar is under control. That may be part of what you are seeing with your sons.

[Joker]

Food, hunger, and weight are a very weird thing. Dh, 45, eats to maintain. He has always been skinny but he doesn't seem to have that switch that flips that tells him to quit eating because he's full. He has eaten to the point of feeling ill. He can be full but keep eating because it's so good. Yet, he has always been about five pounds underweight.

 

I, on the other hand, cannot eat past feeling the least bit full but am about 60 pounds overweight. I eat the least amount of food out of everyone in this house but am the only one overweight. I just cannot make myself eat past the point of not feeling hungry. Dh knows he shouldn't eat so much in a sitting so I often talk him into sharing meals with me. I'm still amazed that he can eat so much at one time and still never gain weight. 

 

I think there is still so much about weight today that many don't understand and the best thing is to be as supportive as possible. I recently told dh about my plans to try and lose weight and he feels horrible that he and dc cannot do more to support me. He knows they all eat to maintain and he is aware that I don't eat as they do but am still struggling. It honestly helps so much just to know he feels as he does. There is zero judgement and only good words and thoughts coming my way from him. I can't imagine what it would feel like for him to be negative about it all. 

 

[maize]

About the hunger and eating--before I learned I was insulin resistant it was harder to stop eating bc I was SO hungry (from all the insulin--which increases hunger). Stopping like Quills dh would have been/was super hard. Once my blood sugar was under control it is much much easier. Really not hard at all. The difference is so big and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't lived it. I can pass by food all the time now. And the only difference is my blood sugar is under control. That may be part of what you are seeing with your sons.

May I ask what you did to get your blood sugar under control?

[scoutingmom]

Also as to why there's not a lot of pressure when people first start gaining weight to say, hold the phone, what is going on, let's fix this now - I think in general, right now, society is a lot kinder and more understanding of food-addicted people than of alcoholics or cigarette smokers or gamblers or people addicted to meth or a zillion other things. Part of this, imo, is how widespread it is; part of it is that overweight people are not as overtly burdensome on society as smokers (through secondhand smoke and lung disease costs) or alcoholics (through drunk driving, other social problems, liver disease costs) or people who are addicted to various illegal drugs (I've lived in a meth town and it was craaazy). The burden is still there in health care costs and reduced productivity and etc. but it is less in-your-face, and so there is more tolerance.

 

On the other hand, there is (obviously) still a fair amount of stigma attached to being overweight. The stigma, along with taxes and physical restrictions, reduced smoking rates, but I don't know how much stigma reduces obesity.

Society is a lot kinder? Not sure where you live, but that is not generally the case.

[eternalsummer]

Well, there aren't very many "smokers pride!" (cigarette smokers) or "don't alcoholic-shame" or whatever campaigns, as far as I can see.  

[maize]

Well, there aren't very many "smokers pride!" (cigarette smokers) or "don't alcoholic-shame" or whatever campaigns, as far as I can see.

People perceive smoking and drinking as something a person DOES. Fat is something a person IS.

 

The shaming is everywhere and much more personal.

[eternalsummer]

Ah, that is true.  But there are conflicting messages, at least, and I don't see those conflicting messages about smokers (speaking as someone who smoked briefly in my 20s and whose father smoked 2 packs a day for 60 years).  

 

I wonder why we see fat as something a person is, instead of seeing it as something that a person does (overeats, or has a food addiction, or has a medical condition that alters metabolism, or something else).  But we see smoking or drinking as something a person does (although we do say smoker and alcoholic), instead of as some sort of inherent condition - although the mechanism that causes the behavior is similar in many ways?

 

I mean, being a smoker or a meth addict has plenty of outward physical signals in the way that being addicted to food has plenty of outward signals (drinking, maybe less so).  

 

But the way we (as a society we, I mean) chose to address the smoking crisis was, imo, much more aggressive on all fronts than how we've treated the obesity crisis, including the social stigma against the behavior itself.

 

So with smoking, we: prosecuted companies who produced an addictive drug and lied about it, outlawed a lot of forms of advertising tobacco products, outlawed smoking in many public places, raised taxes to a significant degree on cigarettes - I'm talking in some cases literally a 100% tax (you pay as much in tax as you pay for the product itself) - imagine being taxed $1 per coke!, ran counter-smoking campaigns with often really dire and graphic messages and images, and directed a lot of anti-smoking effort at kids in particular through, among other things, DARE (do they still have this?).

 

 

[maize]

Ah, that is true. But there are conflicting messages, at least, and I don't see those conflicting messages about smokers (speaking as someone who smoked briefly in my 20s and whose father smoked 2 packs a day for 60 years).

 

I wonder why we see fat as something a person is, instead of seeing it as something that a person does (overeats, or has a food addiction, or has a medical condition that alters metabolism, or something else). But we see smoking or drinking as something a person does (although we do say smoker and alcoholic), instead of as some sort of inherent condition - although the mechanism that causes the behavior is similar in many ways?

 

I mean, being a smoker or a meth addict has plenty of outward physical signals in the way that being addicted to food has plenty of outward signals (drinking, maybe less so).

 

But the way we (as a society we, I mean) chose to address the smoking crisis was, imo, much more aggressive on all fronts than how we've treated the obesity crisis, including the social stigma against the behavior itself.

 

So with smoking, we: prosecuted companies who produced an addictive drug and lied about it, outlawed a lot of forms of advertising tobacco products, outlawed smoking in many public places, raised taxes to a significant degree on cigarettes - I'm talking in some cases literally a 100% tax (you pay as much in tax as you pay for the product itself) - imagine being taxed $1 per coke!, ran counter-smoking campaigns with often really dire and graphic messages and images, and directed a lot of anti-smoking effort at kids in particular through, among other things, DARE (do they still have this?).

Fat is way more complicated.

 

It is not one product (or family of products) like tobacco.

 

Two people can live in the same household and eat the same food and one gains weight while the other doesn't.

 

Stress can cause weight gain.

 

Too little sleep can cause weight gain.

 

Life saving medication can cause weight gain.

 

Pregnancy can cause weight gain.

 

A variety of diseases can cause weight gain.

 

Having an overweight parent can result in epigenetic changes to DNA causing offspring to be overweight.

 

Dieting can mess up the metabolism and cause weight gain.

 

Dieting and obsession with weight may lead to eating disorders that can themselves be fatal.

 

It's complicated.

[OneStepAtATime]

FWIW, since weight shaming vs. alcohol and smoking have come up, I will share a bit that might have relevance.

 

I actually definitely do see people where I live being shamed for weight issues more than drinking. Smoking depends on the group. Some people are really o.k. with smoking. Others are grossed out by the smoking but do not vilify the smoker. And others absolutely vilify the smoker.

 

DD had a classmate in Kindergarten that was very overweight. The child's mother was also overweight. I remember many times other parents (one in particular) gossiping about the mom and the child behind their backs, saying unkind things, almost seeing them as lesser people because of their weight. They saw it as a character flaw. Smoking and drinking not so much.

 

All my dad's life he had been very thin. Very athletic. In later years he had some health issues, including developing diabetes, and ended up suddenly gaining quite a bit of weight. Despite effort he was never really able to lose it. If he hadn't gotten cancer he might have eventually gotten his weight under control, but I will never know. As others have said, weight involves a lot of complex systems and situation specific circumstances. I do remember it bothered him. He had less energy. It was harder to get things done. But mainly it altered how some people treated him. I remember specifically how deeply wounded he was when my grandmother (his own mother) made comments about his weight. If he ate in front of her she often made a comment regarding his food or portion choices, too. Even on his birthday she made a comment about his choosing to eat a perfectly reasonably sized piece of cake. I believe she was saying things out of concern for his health issues but it came across as unkind and judgemental and made him even MORE focused on food because he was so self-conscious of eating in front of her. It was not a helpful reaction to his situation. It came across as an attack on him as a person. They were able to get past it but it did cause some damage to their relationship.

 

I am not sure why the differences in how people are treated between weight/drinking/smoking issues, but I do think part of that is tied to cultural and familial norms so it will vary from area to area and group to group.

Edited December 29, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[Guest]

Ah, that is true. But there are conflicting messages, at least, and I don't see those conflicting messages about smokers (speaking as someone who smoked briefly in my 20s and whose father smoked 2 packs a day for 60 years).

 

I wonder why we see fat as something a person is, instead of seeing it as something that a person does (overeats, or has a food addiction, or has a medical condition that alters metabolism, or something else). But we see smoking or drinking as something a person does (although we do say smoker and alcoholic), instead of as some sort of inherent condition - although the mechanism that causes the behavior is similar in many ways?

 

I mean, being a smoker or a meth addict has plenty of outward physical signals in the way that being addicted to food has plenty of outward signals (drinking, maybe less so).

 

But the way we (as a society we, I mean) chose to address the smoking crisis was, imo, much more aggressive on all fronts than how we've treated the obesity crisis, including the social stigma against the behavior itself.

 

So with smoking, we: prosecuted companies who produced an addictive drug and lied about it, outlawed a lot of forms of advertising tobacco products, outlawed smoking in many public places, raised taxes to a significant degree on cigarettes - I'm talking in some cases literally a 100% tax (you pay as much in tax as you pay for the product itself) - imagine being taxed $1 per coke!, ran counter-smoking campaigns with often really dire and graphic messages and images, and directed a lot of anti-smoking effort at kids in particular through, among other things, DARE (do they still have this?).

I think we (society’) do think fat comes about from something one does. Gluttony and Sloth are two of the seven deadly sins and I think that background informs the inclination to shame someone who is fat. I think some part of why it is tempered is because a lot of folks have no room to talk.

 

IME, when governments attempt to curtail junky foods with a tax, the public rebels by saying it is the Nanny State and is impinging on the freedom of adults to eat and drink according to their own choices. I actually have some ambivalence over the issue myself.

 

 

Eta: fix tag

Edited December 29, 2017 by Quill

[ktgrok]

Well, there aren't very many "smokers pride!" (cigarette smokers) or "don't alcoholic-shame" or whatever campaigns, as far as I can see.  

 

 

I think it is wrong to shame anyone fighting an addiction. Do you think it is okay to shame them??

[ktgrok]

People perceive smoking and drinking as something a person DOES. Fat is something a person IS.

 

The shaming is everywhere and much more personal.

 

And good point. I don't see people shaming cigarette smokers nearly as much as they do fat people. Heck, one reason people smoke, despite the problems, is to control their weight! What does that tell you about how society treats smokers vs fat people?

[ktgrok]

 

 

So with smoking, we: prosecuted companies who produced an addictive drug and lied about it, outlawed a lot of forms of advertising tobacco products, outlawed smoking in many public places, raised taxes to a significant degree on cigarettes - I'm talking in some cases literally a 100% tax (you pay as much in tax as you pay for the product itself) - imagine being taxed $1 per coke!, ran counter-smoking campaigns with often really dire and graphic messages and images, and directed a lot of anti-smoking effort at kids in particular through, among other things, DARE (do they still have this?).

 

There ARE voices calling for a campaign against sugary foods in a similar vein. But big money shuts them down. Even Michelle Obama's fight against childhood obesity which was initially about food, got morphed into one about movement due to pressure from food lobbyists. 

 

Smoking companies are big, but so is big sugar, plus McDonalds, General Mills, etc etc. 

 

That we have candy EVERYWHERE is insane. Why on earth is there a dozen kinds of candy at every checkout, not just at food stores but at places like office max and the car parts store? Can you imagine how much harder it would be to defeat alcoholism if an alcoholic didn't just have to expect booze at restaurant and bars but at toy stores, book stores, auto shops, libraries, public school, hospitals, etc? 

[HomeAgain]

 

That we have candy EVERYWHERE is insane. Why on earth is there a dozen kinds of candy at every checkout, not just at food stores but at places like office max and the car parts store? Can you imagine how much harder it would be to defeat alcoholism if an alcoholic didn't just have to expect booze at restaurant and bars but at toy stores, book stores, auto shops, libraries, public school, hospitals, etc? 

 

It's even worse when you consider the amount of hidden sugar in foods. Even Planters dry roasted sunflower seeds have corn syrup added.  Why??? Why do we need sugar in EVERYTHING?  It's in way too many shelf stable foods: spice mixes, rice dishes, soups...which then acts to increase our desire for it, and then our desserts have twice as much (and are bigger than they should be), and the candy bars grow (our store only has the king size at the check out), and so forth.

 

It's the equivalent of hiding alcohol or cocaine in all manufactured foods and then wondering why everyone's an addict. 

[Kassia]

I actually definitely do see people where I live being shamed for weight issues more than drinking.

 

They saw it as a character flaw. 

 

But mainly it altered how some people treated him.

 

 

 

This is what feeds my eating disorder.  The fear of how people will view me if I gain weight.  Someone wrote here a while back about "thin privilege" and it is so true and I think about this a lot.  I've been everywhere from underweight to obese and I definitely feel that thin privilege when I am thin (whether it's real or perceived, that's what I feel).  For me, staying thin is not a healthy way to live physically or emotionally due to how much I have to struggle every day to stay this way, but the fear of how others will view me if I gain weight drives me to keep living like I do.  

[OneStepAtATime]

This is what feeds my eating disorder. The fear of how people will view me if I gain weight. Someone wrote here a while back about "thin privilege" and it is so true and I think about this a lot. I've been everywhere from underweight to obese and I definitely feel that thin privilege when I am thin (whether it's real or perceived, that's what I feel). For me, staying thin is not a healthy way to live physically or emotionally due to how much I have to struggle every day to stay this way, but the fear of how others will view me if I gain weight drives me to keep living like I do.

Hugs

[historically accurate]

Fat is way more complicated.

 

It is not one product (or family of products) like tobacco.

 

Two people can live in the same household and eat the same food and one gains weight while the other doesn't.

 

Stress can cause weight gain.

 

Too little sleep can cause weight gain.

 

Life saving medication can cause weight gain.

 

Pregnancy can cause weight gain.

 

A variety of diseases can cause weight gain.

 

Having an overweight parent can result in epigenetic changes to DNA causing offspring to be overweight.

 

Dieting can mess up the metabolism and cause weight gain.

 

Dieting and obsession with weight may lead to eating disorders that can themselves be fatal.

 

It's complicated.

 

And finally, there is the whole: you can live without ever touching alcohol, recreational drugs, and cigarettes. People have to eat food. So, if you are a recovering alcoholic, you can avoid every situation that would tempt you to drink, a person who has a food disorder has to eat daily. 

[kiana]

Fat shaming is absolutely a thing. We are jackasses to fat people even when they are eating perfectly normal amounts of food (or just happening to exist in our space). 

 

But where we don't see an issue is non-fat people engaging in generally gluttonous behavior. We (in general, not in specific) joke about "food comas" after festive meals as if the only purpose of a holiday was to eat until you felt sick. Not as "Oh, this was delicious, all of it, Granny's stollen always makes me think of her ..." but "I ate so much, my belly hurts, I need to go take a nap to digest". We celebrate the "cool girls" who are slender and can ALSO put away half a pizza and a six-pack (never mind how much she starves herself later) but we shame the fat girl who does the same thing and mock the slender girl who has a single slice of pizza, a single beer, and a salad. 

 

Please note, I am not saying to shame people for their food choices -- I think that, quite honestly, what a person eats is between them and maybe the person who cooks/pays for food (if I am paying for food and you are eating triple servings, I am going to start stocking rice and beans ...) -- but I don't think that over-indulgence is something to be lauded or even normalized. 

 

I've been working on altering my own behavior with respect to this as well. I grew up in a family where my father would joke about curling up on a hot rock to digest after eating a pound of pasta, and I really don't think it was good for my relationship with food -- I don't want to pass this down to another generation. 

[kiana]

And finally, there is the whole: you can live without ever touching alcohol, recreational drugs, and cigarettes. People have to eat food. So, if you are a recovering alcoholic, you can avoid every situation that would tempt you to drink, a person who has a food disorder has to eat daily. 

 

Yeah. It's like being an alcoholic who has to live in a bar and drink just enough beers to get hydrated, but not enough to get drunk. 

[displace]

It's even worse when you consider the amount of hidden sugar in foods. Even Planters dry roasted sunflower seeds have corn syrup added. Why??? Why do we need sugar in EVERYTHING? It's in way too many shelf stable foods: spice mixes, rice dishes, soups...which then acts to increase our desire for it, and then our desserts have twice as much (and are bigger than they should be), and the candy bars grow (our store only has the king size at the check out), and so forth.

 

It's the equivalent of hiding alcohol or cocaine in all manufactured foods and then wondering why everyone's an addict.

In general, the US is a very “obesogenic†country. Everything about how we live makes it hard to eat healthy and stay at a healthy weight. It’s a fight all the time. Then, when we do gain weight, all the other biological factors come into play too, like fat causing increased appetite and lethargy and desire for unhealthy foods.

 

Our country promotes cars vs walking/biking, fast food vs home cooked, super processed vs natural foods, subsidies for certain select foods vs all fruits/veg, unhealthy school food options and advice, etc. It goes on. Why do we have more fast food restaurants than grocery stores? Why is soda cheaper than milk? Why is an Apple the same price as a bag of chips?

 

Our focus as a nation is influenced by policies that shouldn’t be there. And we all have to make choices every day to fight against this culture to be healthy.

[Kassia]

Fat shaming is absolutely a thing. We are jackasses to fat people even when they are eating perfectly normal amounts of food (or just happening to exist in our space). 

 

But where we don't see an issue is non-fat people engaging in generally gluttonous behavior. We (in general, not in specific) joke about "food comas" after festive meals as if the only purpose of a holiday was to eat until you felt sick. Not as "Oh, this was delicious, all of it, Granny's stollen always makes me think of her ..." but "I ate so much, my belly hurts, I need to go take a nap to digest". We celebrate the "cool girls" who are slender and can ALSO put away half a pizza and a six-pack (never mind how much she starves herself later) but we shame the fat girl who does the same thing and mock the slender girl who has a single slice of pizza, a single beer, and a salad. 

 

 

 

Yes!  This is what I think about when I think about "thin privilege."  When I eat or shop, I never feel like people are judging me for what I eat, how much I eat, or what's in my grocery cart.  When I was heavier, I would feel self-conscious about what was in my grocery cart and I would feel like I had to be careful with what I ate when I was out because people would judge the fat girl eating ice cream or seconds or whatever.  Also, I can talk about eating cookies for dinner or overeating now, but I never felt that I could do that when I was overweight.  It was something that had to be hidden.  

[scoutingmom]

I remember a job interview I had when I was younger - and thin. (The genetics of my family, are such that we are thin until about age 24-26ish, then gain weight...) In that interview I was asked the question "What is your greatest weakness?" I quickly answered "Chocolate!" We all had a laugh, and I had time to formulate an answer that was sincere and looked good. I got the job. But I could never make that joke now. The response at best would likely be an awkward silence. I am also glad that I do not need to get a job right now because my chances at getting hired would be very low... just because of my weight.

 

I feel panic if I am at the store and see someone I know because I have to think on whether there is something in my cart that will add to any judgement... do I have a bottle of pop in the cart? A frozen dinner? A chocolate bar? And yes, I have heard the rude comments about me or my husband when someone didn't realize I was in hearing range.

 

Oh, and our province does have a "sin tax" on candy and chocolate. It is blended into the price.

 

Believe me, fat shaming is still alive and well.

 

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[ktgrok]

.

 

I feel panic if I am at the store and see someone I know because I have to think on whether there is something in my cart that will add to any judgement... do I have a bottle of pop in the cart? A frozen dinner? A chocolate bar? And yes, I have heard the rude comments about me or my husband when someone didn't realize I was in hearing range.

 

 

 

The biggest change in my life after bariatric surgery is not having to worry about that anymore. Seriously.

[eternalsummer]

I feel the same way (the shame) when buying cigarettes for my mom at a gas station or grocery store, and often feel compelled to note in some way that they're not for me.

 

I don't know if the social stigmatisation is a significant part of why smoking rates have gone down, or whether it was another part of the campaign against smokers, honestly. Certainly I didn't stop smoking because it was socially stigmatised (but then, I also didn't stop because it was expensive, dangerous, hard to do at work or in public places, etc.)

 

The stigma against food addiction (or other causes of being overweight) is different than the stigma against smoking, for sure.  There is sort of a pervasive anti-fat sentiment in the West in some ways, even if a lot of it is subconscious or covert.  By covert I mean - on these boards, I would bet I can find 10+ examples of someone referring to smoking/being a smoker as "disgusting" or morally wrong; I would similarly bet I cannot find one reference to overeating/being fat as "disgusting" and while there may be implications that it is morally wrong (or at least morally weak) I don't think the overt sentiment is quite the same.

Edited December 29, 2017 by eternalsummer

[scoutingmom]

I agree. I only hear an obese adult labeled disgusting when they are overeating or eating processed food. Otherwise, its more of a sympathy or pity that they haven't found the right doctor -- people are aware of the importance of eating whole foods but understand that those that grew up in the city may be confused about what is a whole food and how to prepare. People are also aware of the genetic causes, and know it takes some work with the right doctor to figure out the right supplements. For those that refuse to eat nutritiously after education, or supply their dc with whole foods and no processed foods its more a shaking of the head....can't help some people, no need to headbang.

Your experience is vastly different from mine.

 

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[maize]

Your experience is vastly different from mine.

 

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I think it is like systemic racism being largely invisible to white people.

 

Many thin people just don't see fat shaming.

Edited December 29, 2017 by maize

[Guest]

Yes! This is what I think about when I think about "thin privilege." When I eat or shop, I never feel like people are judging me for what I eat, how much I eat, or what's in my grocery cart. When I was heavier, I would feel self-conscious about what was in my grocery cart and I would feel like I had to be careful with what I ate when I was out because people would judge the fat girl eating ice cream or seconds or whatever. Also, I can talk about eating cookies for dinner or overeating now, but I never felt that I could do that when I was overweight. It was something that had to be hidden.

I agree with the thin privildege thing; I actually think that was one of the most astute posts I’ve ever read on these boards. (By Janie Grace)

 

But what kills me a little bit is that thin people are also scrutinized over food, which I am sure you have experienced if you have been thin. When I was at my thinnest, I was constantly assessed by people directly as well as behind my back, for whether or not I was anorexic. During that time, I also went vegetarian for a while, but that made the social scrutiny far worse. OTOH, (and this still happens to this day), if I eat heartily at any ocassion, people whisper about how I stay thin when I eat “like that.†I really just wish people would pay no attention to what I eat/don’t eat, but that is not what happens in this society.

[Guest]

There ARE voices calling for a campaign against sugary foods in a similar vein. But big money shuts them down. Even Michelle Obama's fight against childhood obesity which was initially about food, got morphed into one about movement due to pressure from food lobbyists.

 

Smoking companies are big, but so is big sugar, plus McDonalds, General Mills, etc etc.

 

That we have candy EVERYWHERE is insane. Why on earth is there a dozen kinds of candy at every checkout, not just at food stores but at places like office max and the car parts store? Can you imagine how much harder it would be to defeat alcoholism if an alcoholic didn't just have to expect booze at restaurant and bars but at toy stores, book stores, auto shops, libraries, public school, hospitals, etc?

And, if we want to go farther down the rabbit hole, there is a vast difference at the checkout counters of stores that often serve a low-income demographic (Walmart, say, or certain gas stations) vs. stores that serve a higher-income demographic (Wegmans; gas stations in upscale areas). The Walmart has the most gigantic King-Sized candy bars I have ever seen. Each time I check out, I wonder who actually buys those. A gas station nearby had those Huge Reeses Cups at the counter - I think they are 2 lbs. (!] of chocolate. There’s no such thing at other stores. The fancier stores have things like Turkey Jerky or salted nut packs at the counter.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The stigma against food addiction (or other causes of being overweight) is different than the stigma against smoking, for sure.  There is sort of a pervasive anti-fat sentiment in the West in some ways, even if a lot of it is subconscious or covert.  By covert I mean - on these boards, I would bet I can find 10+ examples of someone referring to smoking/being a smoker as "disgusting" or morally wrong; I would similarly bet I cannot find one reference to overeating/being fat as "disgusting" and while there may be implications that it is morally wrong (or at least morally weak) I don't think the overt sentiment is quite the same.

 

It is here loud and clear on this board esp. from a few posters.  They might not use the word "disgusting" but the disdain is very apparent.  And whenever people try to explain the actual science of obesity, they are there with counter arguments about how if people had just used self control, willpower etc. instead of stuffing their faces, they wouldn't have ended up fat to begin with.  In fact it is right here in this thread. 

 

Most people do not set out wanting to become fat.  Most people have tried to combat the rising scale from the beginning.  In fact for many, the whole idea of dieting itself has added to the weight gain.  (There is science behind this too but I don't want to dig it out to link.)  Most people have similar amounts of willpower - it's not like the thin people have more and the fat people have less. 

 

BTW - I really like Sparkpeople.com because that site recognizes that there are a lot of variables involved.  Yes, there are changes that need to be made but just like Fly Lady, those changes do best when done with baby steps.  It recognizes that this involves real people with feelings and health needs and baggage and busy schedules and . . . .   I have never ever seen anyone shamed there.  I have seen small steps celebrated.  And I have seen the frustrations of those of us who have done everything "right" and not had any results acknowledged and supported instead of accusing us of lying or sabotaging ourselves.  (I say this because I have had personal trainers do the opposite and to their amazement they are no longer my personal trainer.)