Husband wants us to fast (!!!) when kids go to sleep away camp

[ktgrok]

Detox is a meaningless word when used in connection with eating. Your liver and kidneys have a job. That job is to filter and remove unwanted "toxins" (another ambiguous, pretty much meaningless word). If those organs are working correctly you don't need to detox. It's at best a pointless endeavor and at worst potentially unhealthy.

 

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/detox-diets/faq-20058040

 

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-one-thing-you-need-to-know-before-you-detox/

 

 

Thank You!!

[Greta]

Well, he is onboard for Whole 30. [emoji106]

Yay! :-) I think that's a great choice.

 

Activity suggestions are great, thank you.

Hiking? Couch to 5K? Dance classes? Are there any good gyms near you?

 

Now, I just have to let go of the guilt of sending them to camp. He wants to go, if that matters at all, Terabith.

 

Yeah, it matters a lot! I would have been absolutely thrilled to go on a sleep away camp at that age! You know your kids. No guilt.

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

Now, I just have to let go of the guilt of sending them to camp. He wants to go, if that matters at all, Terabith.

 

 

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aww...I bet he'll have a great time

[Tanaqui]

I'm sure he'll be fine, MDL. You're sending him to a summer camp, not a forced labor camp, right? If he's not fine, he can come home!

[PeterPan]

I'd concentrate on exercise and making healthy eating choices - finding good recipes you love - instead.

 

I thought I'd take advantage of never being hungry to lose weight back when it first happened (by skipping quite a few meals).  I did lose weight.  I also slowed down my metabolism significantly (google "Biggest Loser" and metabolism changes).  Now if I eat normally I gain weight super quickly - even with exercise.  It's super annoying.  I wish I had known not to fast back then!  If I ever get those hunger feelings back again keeping weight off is going to be difficult.  I've already put 15lbs back on eating far less food than before.   :glare:

 

Tis far better to make healthy changes than fad changes IME.

 

I'll just second that. I gained an unfortunate amount of weight driving my ds to speech therapy starting when he was two. I was eating fast food, trying to stay awake, sigh. I read a bunch of weight loss threads here on the boards and that issue of slowing down your metabolism seemed to be THE complaint. I was approaching 40, which has that as an added feature, and frankly I like to eat! 

 

So I decided that the most sensible thing for me, as someone who doesn't plan on not eating, is to eat everything I would have normally eaten but add muscle. Muscle burns calories, more muscle, more calories. I started doing the weight machines at the Y very faithfully three days a week. Did that for 18 months and lost 30 pounds. Now, in the last few months I've started going to some classes that have cardio and I get that component too. I still focus on weights, and not just for toning but actually adding muscle. Since then I've lost another 5. I can take vacations, eat anything I want, and it STAYS OFF because I've got this internal motor with the muscles, burning, burning, burning.

 

I've got another 20-25 to my ideal weight. I'm planning to check my body fat tomorrow on the nifty machine at the Y to see where it's at. I've gained enough muscle that I'm not sure just weight or BMI is a good measure.

 

For me, that has been a real, sustainable change. If I want a milkshake, I have a milkshake! If I want cheesy fries, I have cheesy fries. And I'm losing weight.

 

Disclosure, a small amount of that weight I lost when I had back to back pneumonia and bronchitis. I don't advise doing it that way. ;)

 

I have friends who lost weight with cardio, no muscle-building component to their workout, and they gain the weight back when they're not careful. So cardio is fine, but I'm awfully lazy for that, kwim? All I want to do is eat what I want and lose weight. For me, that means lifting weights. Bonus, the view at the gym is awfully sweet.  :thumbup:

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Edited June 5, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[Janie Grace]

This is a tangent, but why is everyone so hip on drinking bone broth right now? I have made bone brother for decades, but I make it into soup or use it in my regular cooking. The thought of drinking it as a beverage just skeeves me out. But then, I also never liked the idea behind those drinkable soups, or drinkable yogurts.

 

But seriously - why is everyone so hip on this drinking broth trend?

 

I have had the exact same thought! And why is it called "bone broth"? That's like saying "I just made flour bread" or "I'm drinking teabag tea!"

[Tangerine]

I have had the exact same thought! And why is it called "bone broth"? That's like saying "I just made flour bread" or "I'm drinking teabag tea!"

I realize this is rhetorical. And a joke. But just as one would say "unleavened" bread to distinguish a cooking process, "bone broth" is a designation that indicates a long slow cooking process vs. say short cooked meat stock.

[kitten18]

It's a terrible idea.

 

But, I also think it's a terrible idea to send a child away to sleepaway camp if he has never had an overnight with a friend or grandparent or even a babysitter.

She didn't ask for an opinion on sending her kids to summer camp.

[Janie Grace]

I realize this is rhetorical. And a joke. But just as one would say "unleavened" bread to distinguish a cooking process, "bone broth" is a designation that indicates a long slow cooking process vs. say short cooked meat stock.

 

No, I really didn't know this. I honestly thought all broth was made from bones (and simmered for a long time). You have enlightened me. :)

[Tangerine]

No, I really didn't know this. I honestly thought all broth was made from bones (and simmered for a long time). You have enlightened me. :)

Ah, well I'm glad then. I'm an unintentional meat juice expert.

 

 

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[EMS83]

http://liamrosen.com/fitness.html#part3

 

The whole article is excellent, but the relevant bit here is the diet section.

[Guest]

Ah, well I'm glad then. I'm an unintentional meat juice expert.

 

 

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...with an awesome sense of humor!

[Guest]

I have had the exact same thought! And why is it called "bone broth"? That's like saying "I just made flour bread" or "I'm drinking teabag tea!"

Around here, it can be useful to specify "teabag tea". But yeah, I think that, too. Finish the chicken; toss the carcass in the pot, simmer for hours. That's how you make broth. How else is there?

[Amy in NH]

A broth fast wouldn't establish the ketosis which is important in a fast.

[Seasider]

I think the bone broth thing has come along with the rise of celiac disease. It's supposed to promote healing in the gut and reduce intestinal inflammation, due to the collagen, I think?

[Terabith]

I'm glad he wants to go.  My daughter went to sleepaway camp at 8 at her request.  It's not a bad idea, in and of itself.  But I do think it's jumping in a bit fast to go from "never having stayed with a babysitter or had a sleepover" to a week at sleepaway camp.

[kitten18]

A broth fast wouldn't establish the ketosis which is important in a fast.

If you only drank broth you would most definitely be in ketosis.

[kitten18]

I think the bone broth thing has come along with the rise of celiac disease. It's supposed to promote healing in the gut and reduce intestinal inflammation, due to the collagen, I think?

I see it a lot in low carb conversations, people use it to get some extra sodium.

[KungFuPanda]

I realize this is rhetorical. And a joke. But just as one would say "unleavened" bread to distinguish a cooking process, "bone broth" is a designation that indicates a long slow cooking process vs. say short cooked meat stock.

 

 

Wait, I call the anemic canned stuff broth and the good, long-simmering bone stuff stock. I just assumed people said bone-broth to distinguish homemade stock from canned broth.

 

 

I'm glad he wants to go.  My daughter went to sleepaway camp at 8 at her request.  It's not a bad idea, in and of itself.  But I do think it's jumping in a bit fast to go from "never having stayed with a babysitter or had a sleepover" to a week at sleepaway camp.

Maybe the camp isn't on the moon and they can just pick him up if it doesn't work out? I think it works out most of the time and a very small percentage of kids need to leave camp early.

[MDL]

I'm glad he wants to go. My daughter went to sleepaway camp at 8 at her request. It's not a bad idea, in and of itself. But I do think it's jumping in a bit fast to go from "never having stayed with a babysitter or had a sleepover" to a week at sleepaway camp.

He has done some day camps, and is generally agreeable/easy going. I think *I* am going to be the one with separation anxiety.

 

It's 19 days, and was definitely time for the 12 year old--we need a chance to miss and appreciate each other. The 7 year old was so sad to think he wouldn't be able to go too. So, we found a camp (2.5 hours away) where they both can go. It cost an arm and a leg, so I really don't want to go pick anyone up!

[Sarah CB]

I think he thought of fasting as more of something to try, with weight loss as a bonus. He knows about losing weight in the healthy way--we just tend to be different. I cannot have sugar or grains involved in a healthy eating/lifestyle plan. I just cannot do it in moderation, it always starts small, but avalanches, you know? He is more of a "just need to eat less food" kind of guy.

 

I'm not adverse t trying a bone broth detox, I just don't think the first day kiddos are away is a smart day to try it....

 

 

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Fasting can be really healthy - there are fantastic health benefits from fasts. Dr. Fung's book, The Complete Guide to Fasting, is a great place to start. 

 

But, I think you'd lose a lot of the benefits of fasting if you're ingesting bone broth during the fast. 

 

I actually really like fasting. I can handle a four day water fast pretty easily. I'm always surprised at how much more energy I have when I'm fasting.

 

Here's a great podcast on Balanced Bites with Dr. Fung - lots of great info on how fasting works and the different kinds of fasts you can do: http://balancedbites.com/podcast-episode-298-fasting-with-dr-jason-fung/ 

Edited June 5, 2017 by Sarah CB

[Guest2]

Fasting can be really healthy - there are fantastic health benefits from fasts. Dr. Fung's book, The Complete Guide to Fasting, is a great place to start.

 

But, I think you'd lose a lot of the benefits of fasting if you're ingesting bone broth during the fast.

 

I actually really like fasting. I can handle a four day water fast pretty easily. I'm always surprised at how much more energy I have when I'm fasting.

 

Here's a great podcast on Balanced Bites with Dr. Fung - lots of great info on how fasting works and the different kinds of fasts you can do: http://balancedbites.com/podcast-episode-298-fasting-with-dr-jason-fung/

Actually Dr. Fung recommends bone broth (homemade) during fasting.https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/practical-fasting-tips-part-12/

 

I have never tried it as I only do short 16 hour fasts at this point, and i don't want that for breakfast! Totally agree with you on the rest ..I feel great when fasting, and enjoy Dr. Fung's free videos. Working out and eating better/less never worked for me for weight loss. This at least has helped me stabilize my weight until I am ready to loose more.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Silver Brook

[Sarah CB]

Actually Dr. Fung recommends bone broth (homemade) during fasting.https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/practical-fasting-tips-part-12/

 

I have never tried it as I only do short 16 hour fasts at this point, and i don't want that for breakfast! Totally agree with you on the rest ..I feel great when fasting, and enjoy Dr. Fung's free videos. Working out and eating better/less never worked for me for weight loss. This at least has helped me stabilize my weight until I am ready to loose more.

 

Yes, he does, but there's a lot of talk about why he does that - and one of the reasons is that even fasting with broth is better than not fasting at all - you'll receive a lot of the benefits of fasting, so for those who have trouble with a water only fast, offering broth will allow someone to continue a fast where they may not have otherwise been able to.

 

However, even Dr. Fung says, "What turns off autophagy? Eating. Glucose, insulin (or decreased glucagon) and proteins all turn off this self-cleaning process. And it doesn’t take much. Even a small amount of amino acid (leucine) could stop autophagy cold."

 

So, if you're looking at getting the full benefit of fasting (which, for me, if I'm going to go to the trouble of fasting, I definitely want the *full* benefit) then you may not want to consume the amino acids in bone broth during a fast.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Sarah CB

[Lady Florida.]

It's a terrible idea. 

 

But, I also think it's a terrible idea to send a child away to sleepaway camp if he has never had an overnight with a friend or grandparent or even a babysitter. 

 

Way to judge the OP's parenting. She asked for advice and opinions about fasting, not about whether she should send her kid to camp.

[Tanaqui]

It cost an arm and a leg, so I really don't want to go pick anyone up!

 

I completely understand. And it almost certainly won't come to that anyway :)

 

But if it does, I look at it this way: You've already wasted your money. It's gone. No point making your kid suffer.

 

(Usually I take this philosophy towards movie tickets. If I don't like the movie after a reasonable length of time, I walk out. I'm not going to waste $15 and two hours.)

 

[winterbaby]

I completely understand. And it almost certainly won't come to that anyway :)

 

But if it does, I look at it this way: You've already wasted your money. It's gone. No point making your kid suffer.

 

(Usually I take this philosophy towards movie tickets. If I don't like the movie after a reasonable length of time, I walk out. I'm not going to waste $15 and two hours.)

 

Good philosophy. I was just thinking like, if it does come to that, you don't want to be in a fasting state for it!

 

[Pink and Green Mom]

My unsolicited advice - the second week of Whole 30 is the hardest.  Do yourself a favor and make at least two extra weeks of freezer meals for Whole30.  Re-entry of the kids back home is hard, Whole30 will be hard - do yourself a favor and be prepared by having enough breakfasts, lunches, snacks and dinners to get you through week 2.

[Terabith]

I'm sorry.  I really didn't mean to offend.  I really just meant that maybe in between now and the time he leaves for camp, you might want to practice with a sleepover with a friend or relative or at least a babysitter for a few hours. 

[Amy in NH]

Good philosophy. I was just thinking like, if it does come to that, you don't want to be in a fasting state for it!

 

 

Why?  It's not like being drunk or similarly incapacitated.

[winterbaby]

Why?  It's not like being drunk or similarly incapacitated.

 

For me it would be (or I would be having uncontrollable muscle spasms). People's constitutions differ but no matter what Dr. so and so on the internet says, it's not actually an irrational cultural myth that one needs to eat every day.

[Paige]

I think having a kid free week is the time to go to all the restaurants the kids hate or are too expensive to take everyone to. It's the time to drink all the wine and whiskey you want with a bowl of ice cream and to indulge in whatever trashy food you don't normally eat. 

 

It seems like a terrible time to start a fast or diet! Do that when the kids get home if you want to, but if you don't have fun while they are gone, it seems like it would be a miserable week worrying about and missing the kids. 

[MBM]

Fasting is an excellent way to get into ketosis quickly. You can measure your blood ketones with a monitor. I use one and also a Ketonix device to keep tabs.

 

Fasting also leads to greater autophagy, which is the way your body cleans up damaged cellular bits which it then either discards or recycles. Those little bits cause alot of health problems. Upon refeeding, new stem cells emerge, too. Thomas Seyfried and other scientists such as Valter Longo discuss the health benefits if you want to learn more.

 

Protein and carbs interfere so you'd have to skip the bone broth.

[Reefgazer]

Zero food is a non-starter for me, no matter how damned fat I get.  Life is too short.

[Reefgazer]

Thank you for the biology lesson based on some common sense.

Detox is a meaningless word when used in connection with eating. Your liver and kidneys have a job. That job is to filter and remove unwanted "toxins" (another ambiguous, pretty much meaningless word). If those organs are working correctly you don't need to detox. It's at best a pointless endeavor and at worst potentially unhealthy.

 

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/detox-diets/faq-20058040

 

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-one-thing-you-need-to-know-before-you-detox/

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I think fasting is very healthy and an extremely effective way to lose weight (that can be intermittent fasting or longer fasts). Long term weight loss from fasting isn't from calorie restriction but from lowering insulin.

I fast regularly, anywhere from 18 hours to several days.

 

All that said, you shouldn't fast if you don't want to or you're not ready. Look into the work of Dr. Jason Fung if you want to learn more.

 

Glad someone finally came to defend fasting as not unhealthy!

 

 

A broth fast wouldn't establish the ketosis which is important in a fast.

 

Yes it would.

 

Fasting can be really healthy - there are fantastic health benefits from fasts. Dr. Fung's book, The Complete Guide to Fasting, is a great place to start. 

 

But, I think you'd lose a lot of the benefits of fasting if you're ingesting bone broth during the fast. 

 

I actually really like fasting. I can handle a four day water fast pretty easily. I'm always surprised at how much more energy I have when I'm fasting.

 

Here's a great podcast on Balanced Bites with Dr. Fung - lots of great info on how fasting works and the different kinds of fasts you can do: http://balancedbites.com/podcast-episode-298-fasting-with-dr-jason-fung/ 

 

I was coming in to recommend Dr. Fung's book on fasting, which is excellent.  Dr. Fung is not an internet quack, anyone can google him to see his contributions if they are interested.  

 

I would never fast because someone else wants me to.  I think it requires such an emotional/mental commitment that it wouldn't be possible anyway.  I recommend you get Fung's book for you and your husband and tell him you'll support HIS fast if he wants to.  Dr. Fung recommends no more than 4 days of fasting without medical supervision for various reasons, including referring syndrome, electrolyte balance, etc.  Understanding the two compartment system for how our body stocks energy is really important and can help anyone make better weight loss choices, which do NOT need to include fasting, but can if desired.  

[Spryte]

I think having a kid free week is the time to go to all the restaurants the kids hate or are too expensive to take everyone to. It's the time to drink all the wine and whiskey you want with a bowl of ice cream and to indulge in whatever trashy food you don't normally eat.

 

It seems like a terrible time to start a fast or diet! Do that when the kids get home if you want to, but if you don't have fun while they are gone, it seems like it would be a miserable week worrying about and missing the kids.

This.

 

Here it would be exercising together during the day and eating healthy (we follow a ketogenic diet here), maybe a few restaurants, and nightly dates. Wine, cheese, olives, and sopresatta (sp, sorry) every night, with movies we want to watch and, ummm, TeA.

 

I've spent a lot of time fasting over the years, am definitely not opposed to fasting, but if my kids were away for the first time I'd be focused on self care and connecting with DH.