mrsdash Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 My dd (13) asked me this yesterday. She is "asking around" and I'm wondering what the many different viewpoints here may have to offer on this. Could you also say why or why not? I said yes. She's getting lots of mixed answers at her church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Yes they have the ability to love and feel pain I think they have souls. As a matter of fact go check my blog about this lion video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clwcain Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) They do not have rational, human souls. They are animals. Humans are not animals, despite some apparent similarities. Thomas Aquinas deals with this at one point. To the extent they have souls, they have animal souls. But animal souls are not immortal. They cannot love because they can neither form an intention (they are not rational) nor can they sacrifice (a necessary, though oft forgotten, element of real love). Edited October 23, 2008 by clwcain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkpan Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 No, I don't believe they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Well, my cat just looked up and put her ears back. Yes they have souls, I cant differentiate between the two, I am not God. But, an example, yesterday my dd was crying and upset, and the cat was immediately w/her purring and trying to make her stop. She is always there when someone is feeling bad or hurt. She feels our pain. So yes she has a soul. She actually loves and cares for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motherofjoy Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 While they are soulful, there is no scripture to support the belief that animals have souls, as this is that I think the OP is alluding to, since she mentioned "church". Now if you want to discuss whether they have whatever innate sense that other belief systems attribute to a "soul nature", then yes, they do. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vida Winter Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Yes, I believe they do. Some pets I have had are more human than people. This may not be theologically correct but it is what I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in TN Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I think they can have personalities and show affection and other emotions. But in terms of an eternal soul as a human has which is made to be in relationship with God, I'd say no. I was listening to a fascinating lecture by a Hebrew scholar on the 2nd day of creation - the day that God created separation, and it's implications. I think he mentioned 5 main categories - God/man, man/animal, man/woman, heaven/earth (sacred/profane), living/not living. The lecture is in 2 parts from a Focus on the Family broadcast and I think would be interesting for a teenager, but you may want to listen first - it focuses a great deal on marriage and "non-traditional" relationships. http://listen.family.org/recentdaily/ scroll down to "Preserving the Traditional Foundations of Marriage" originally broadcast on Sept. 29 and 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I believe they have mortal, not immortal souls. As Catholics anyway, when we profess that we believe we are formed in the Divine Image of God, it is the soul that is in that image.....immortal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsdash Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 While they are soulful, there is no scripture to support the belief that animals have souls, as this is that I think the OP is alluding to, since she mentioned "church". Now if you want to discuss whether they have whatever innate sense that other belief systems attribute to a "soul nature", then yes, they do. :001_smile: Well, my dc attend church, I do not. I think you're right, she is looking at it in a more biblical way than I would, yes. That's probably why she is asking for others opinions. I am not familiar with what the Bible says but I believe animals have souls. She attends church and thought she'd get one pat answer at church but she's getting all kinds of different answers- which just left her confused. It's interesting to hear all the responses here. Thanks to all of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PariSarah Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I believe that the Kingdom of God does include/will include plant and animal life. Whether individual animals have souls that survive death and will be resurrected, I don't know. But I believe God's eternal reign will include non-human animals, yes. IIRC, John Wesley was the first major theologian to affirm that animals would participate in the Resurrection, possibly based on OT versions of paradise that seem to include the animal kingdom (lion and lamb, snake and child, etc.). I've run into Episcopalian and Methodist churches that perform services of blessings for animals. I don't know what the RCC position on this is now, but historically (following Thomas Aquinas), Catholicism has held that humans are the only created life that will participate in the Resurrection, because they are the only created life with rational souls. Animals have animal souls, which cannot survive death and will not exist in the Beatific Vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle T Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 No doubt in my mind. Michelle T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom to Aly Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I believe they have souls, without a doubt. And someone said they cannot sacrifice--how many animals have sacrificed themselves, often dogs, for their masters? But, I guess what really matters here, is what you think, and want to teach your daughter, or what she thinks? There are so many schools of thought on this. From a Hindu and Buddhist point of view (and, to let you know, I am Hindu) they definitely do, and all life has worth. Actually, to me, it isn't from a Hindu point of view, I just do believe all life has worth. I am vegetarian, and I don't know how many times people have told me that in the Bible it says God wants man to eat meat (actually, I disagree, in Eden, God did not want Adam & Eve to eat meat, it was only when they were cast out, meaning in a perfect world, God would not want man to eat meat). And, the argument that something is raised as meat takes away its worth doesn't work for me; you could say the same for a person, as people used to say for slaves; if they were raised for slaves, does that take away their worth? No. I may not be helping my cause here, if you don't agree, but, still, ultimately, it is up to you, and your dd. Other people can argue until they are blue in the face--what do you really believe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1cat2ferrets Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 They certainly have their own distinct personalities. They love their owners in their own special way. Their love is unconditional. BTW, I prefer animals to humans any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hen Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 yes, I believe they have souls. We believe that your soul is the part of you that holds emotions and will- so yes, animals can love, feel anger, be loyal, be sad. We believe it's our spirit that makes us different, our spirit is what we use to commune with God. The Bible says that the spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah. Before we worked all that out, it was a big puzzlement trying to explain to our kids if animals have souls or not- our children could see that animals loved. One of those questions you try to slip out of...:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momof165 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 They certainly have their own distinct personalities.They love their owners in their own special way. Their love is unconditional. BTW, I prefer animals to humans any day. :iagree: Sonja ___________________________________________ Homeschooling"JUST ONE" - ds 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Very interesting thread. I was asking my husband about this a few weeks ago, studying the scriptures. It is very complex. We came to the conclusion that they have 'the breath of life', but not an immortal spirit. I believe there is a difference between 'soul' and 'spirit'. However, I do not claim to undertand it all. I wouldn't be able to eat meat if I believed animals have the same kind of spirit (or soul) as a human. And, since I am not a vegitarian, I obviously believe there's a difference. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I certainly do think animals will be in heaven and I am a Christian. I don't believe that Heaven is for professed believers only and I have to say that my pets seem to be more at peace with God's ways than many humans. I have read theologians who do think animals are in Heaven. Some say yes, some say no, you decided what is more comforting to you and God decides what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest janainaz Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I hope so!!! My dog has a personality and can give love and receive it :) I've thought about this before - I just don't know. The Bible says man was made in God's image and that we have dominion over the animals.........but, it never really says. Some animals know when someone is hurting or sad and some know when someone needs help - so, I'd have to say yes. A very hopeful yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Atl Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I heard a pastor say: Animals have bodies but no souls, angels have souls but no bodies and humans have both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle My Bell Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 No, only man was created in the image of God therefore I believe only man has a soul. Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I ask because, while I don't believe animals have a human-like soul, I can't see heaven being much of a place without your favorite pets/animals being there. If she's wondering if her cat will join her in paradise, I'd tell her it wouldn't be paradise without Fluffy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie in Oh Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 but I don't think there will be resurrected beasts (aka: our beloved pets). I do not expect to see my very much loved cocker spaniel, Hannah, in heaven. But I do think there will be animals there for enjoyment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommy2be Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I believe that animals do have souls. Someone said that they do not sacrafice - I totally disagree. I think that the sacrafice much more often and much easier than humans do. They are capable of the most pure love I've ever seen. Just think of how loyal some pets are. They would die for their master without thinking twice about it. Animal mothers will fly off of the handle and fight to thier death defending thier baby if another animal just looks at thier baby the wrong way, again without thinking twice about it. It is also believed that some animals mourn the death of not only thier young but other members of thier herd (of pride, or whichever group might apply). I know we can't say the same for all humans, and we know that we have souls... Now, will our beloved pets who have passed be waiting on us in heaven? I'm not so sure... I would like to think so. This may be a good oppurtunity to talk to your daughter and have her form her own opinion. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Rainbow Bridge Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge. When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable. All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind. They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster. You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart. Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together.... Author unknown... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) Someone here posted this last night about animals and again I think it proves a soull http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjWtRYaxmWM&hl=en&fs=1'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjWtRYaxmWM&hl=en&fs=1'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjWtRYaxmWM&hl=en&fs=1'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjWtRYaxmWM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjWtRYaxmWM&hl=en&fs=1 Edited October 23, 2008 by clarkacademy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest janainaz Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Rainbow Bridge Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge. When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable. All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind. They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster. You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart. Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together.... Author unknown... Oh, I remember this website from like..........10 years ago! Don't know how I found it, I did not have pets at the time, but it made me cry. I think it was for people who had lost a special pet and you could post pictures and write something about your pet - kind of a goodbye. It was a sad little memorial site. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumbledeb Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I believe that animals are souls, as are humans. If anyone really wants to know why I believe that, let me know. Right now I'm too lazy to go and find the exact scripture references. My daughter wants me to pray sometimes that God will include all the pets we've ever had in the resurrection. I don't think he will do that, but I think it's OK to pray and ask if it is his will he will do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Randy Alcorn addresses this in his book Heaven from a biblical standpoint. There are verses that could lead you in either direction on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa at Home Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 My understanding of the working definition of soul is: The soul is the mind, the will, and the emotions. With that definition, how could one possible ever believe that animals don't have souls??? I think most people are asking if animals will go to heaven, if they will be "saved" when they ask if animals have a "soul". This really fits more of a description of spirit rather than soul. I can only explain my personal views based on my own spiritual experiences, which are Bible based, although most people who say they believe in the Bible might disagree with me, I think. I believe that according to Romans 8, that the creature is subject not willingly. I believe that MAN fell in the garden, not animals, and that they and creation have been caused pain by man's sin. I don't believe salvation is necessary for animals, because sin came into the world by man, not them. It's man's spirit that was separated from God, not animals or creation. I believe that Noah spent a lot of time building an ark mostly for animals and not men, and that God cares for His creatures. After all, He said He did, and I believe Him. That's my opinion. ~Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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