S/O Parents not wanting to pay

[LucyStoner]

Yes it's true a chunk does go to the council but it isn't like the council uses that money to line the pockets of the president or something.

 

96c does go back to the bakeries to pay for the cost of the cookies. 

65c comes directly back to the troop for troop funds

84c pays for girl scout camp facilities and services.  Camp Gallahue is the one that I went to a few times as a scout.  It's true that there are fees that the girls pay when they do a camp program, but the facilities have to be maintained even when camp is not in session. 

3c for program assistance grants.  These are the grants that do things like pay the camp program fees, or registration fees or whatever when girls can't afford them

$1.30 goes to program services for the council and troops.  This means things like council wide events, Girl Scout Night at a local sporting event (ie WNBA game, hockey game etc) as well as places like skating rinks, pools etc.  There are also lots of council wide programs/workshops/learning experiences etc.  Some of those might have some fees, others might not, but cookie money totally helps pay for these sorts of things. 

Which leaves the rest to cover basic council administration things, like paying for the folks working in the council office, etc etc.

 

Now, of course, those numbers will vary between various councils, there is more than one bakery and different costs associated with which bakery is used, different councils are going to have different camps they are maintaining, etc etc.  That's the breakdown I received for our council.  So, yes, it's true that a large portion does go to the council, but a very large portion of that percentage is then used by the council for the benefit of the girls. 

 

I can't speak to how it breaks down for the boys though, my youngest isn't old enough for boy scouts yet. 

 

Girl scout cookies cost $5 a box.  When people ask me to buy them, I usually just give them $5.  100% of that goes to the troop.  

 

I don't have an issue with non-profits having overhead expenses or well paid professional staff. Or spending money to make money.   But as an experienced non-profit fundraisier, I have a dim view of the "buy stuff and a slice of the proceeds go to your local troop" model of fundraising.  The girl scouts have, all things considered, a pretty good version of it.  The cub scout popcorn is too expensive to sell nearly as well and our troop doesn't see a lot of those funds.  Other "sell stuff" fundraisers are an even worse deal.  That wrapping paper company?  Schools see less than 1/4 of that money.  I know because I axed that fundraiser for a charity that I used to work for.  A lot of work for volunteers to sell, for free, a product for a private for profit company. 

[FaithManor]

Our local Suzuki string orchestra wanted to go to Ireland last summer.  So, the entire year leading up to it, they would regularly meet and play outside the university theater, which doubles as the city's main live theater, violin cases open in front of them for donations.  They had a sign saying who they were and what they were trying to do.  They raised thousands and thousands of dollars!  I believe the trip costs $1500 each, and they raised enough for all 30-ish kids to go.  They had a wonderful time, and everyone was so proud of them to earn the money themselves, doing what they love to do.

 

How would your kids feel about doing this on a smaller scale, maybe with a few friends.  Work up a small repertoire of pieces, and stand in public and sing for donations. 

That's a pretty awesome idea! Glad it worked out.

[FaithManor]

Girl scout cookies cost $5 a box.  When people ask me to buy them, I usually just give them $5.  100% of that goes to the troop.  

 

I don't have an issue with non-profits having overhead expenses or well paid professional staff. Or spending money to make money.   But as an experienced non-profit fundraisier, I have a dim view of the "buy stuff and a slice of the proceeds go to your local troop" model of fundraising.  The girl scouts have, all things considered, a pretty good version of it.  The cub scout popcorn is too expensive to sell nearly as well and our troop doesn't see a lot of those funds.  Other "sell stuff" fundraisers are an even worse deal.  That wrapping paper company?  Schools see less than 1/4 of that money.  I know because I axed that fundraiser for a charity that I used to work for.  A lot of work for volunteers to sell, for free, a product for a private for profit company. 

It is the same way with stuff being sold through schools too. When I find out exactly how much the kids got back, it is just not worth it. So much time, so much effort, so much peddling things that people do not want.

 

I don't buy girl scout cookies either. But I always gave a donation to niece's troop because that made a lot more sense.

[LucyStoner]

So what would you suggest for my small choir at my private school? 

 

Busking.  It is quite lucrative in the right spot with a talented group.  

[unsinkable]

I am always looking to hire teenagers to do our mowing. We had a great couple of twins one summer. But they were no longer doing it the next year. Its very hard to find kids willing to do lawnwork, is what I find. But I keep looking. We have a great teenage babysitter. Sometimes she's cheaper than the drop in place, sometimes she is more expensive. But she is always more convenient! And my kids loving having her come. I also pay for car washes when I see groups of kids together doing that. (which doesn't happen much anymore)

 

I don't generally buy Girl Scout Cookies or Boy Scout Popcorn, but I'll offer a donation to the troop when I see them seated outside the grocery.

 

Oh I'd pay good money to a teenager who sewed to put badges on AWANA vests! (or scouting uniforms, if I were convinced they were careful and would put them in the right places) I can do it but would love to support a youth and not need to do it myself.

 

The patch sewing is a great job for a seamstress. There was a woman here who charged $1 per badge. You left your garment, patches and payment in a waterproof box on her porch and she called when it was done, usually within 1-2 days. She put it back in the box after she called and you could pick it up whenever. It was pretty much foolproof.

[FaithManor]

Busking.  It is quite lucrative in the right spot with a talented group.  

I think it is a nice idea. If gives a lot of members of the community a chance to hear the players/singers and see where their talent lies. Many people might then be moved to help out when they see how hard these young people have worked to get to the place that they can perform well.

 

As a musician myself, I can tell you when anyone with any talent at all is busking and I'm near by, I toss change small bills, into the pot. 

[unsinkable]

I haven't ever participated in a girl scout troop that had a quota like this. Is that common with boy scouts?

 

I don't think GS troops are allowed to have quotas. Girls are never required to sell cookies or QSP.

 

Each troop is encouraged to set troop goals, and many times they have a special purpose for the $. But in all my GS involvement, there was never quotas.

[FaithManor]

I don't think GS troops are allowed to have quotas. Girls are never required to sell cookies or QSP.

 

Each troop is encouraged to set troop goals, and many times they have a special purpose for the $. But in all my GS involvement, there was never quotas.

Would that be something that an individual leader might come up with and try to force onto a troop? I wonder.

 

It reminds me of an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond when the troop was selling cookies, and the troop leader fought with Raymond over the best high traffic areas to set up and sell cookies. It was sooooo over the top crazy, but one wonders if maybe somewhere out there a troop leader exists that is a bit like that.

 

Believe me, we've had a couple of doozies in 4H. 4H Council fired one last year. It is a weird thing to fire a volunteer, but sometimes it can't be avoided.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Our choir raises a bit of money by selling ad space in the programs (when they host the concerts of course).  They also sold candy grams.  Basically you could pay $5 to to have a message and candy cane sent to your kid before one of their bigger shows.  It was effective pressure because although I didn't way to buy it, I didn't want my kid to feel bad!  LOL. 

 

 

[unsinkable]

That's what I thought but then I thought maybe that was something that varied by council? I have been through 3 different councils, but only in 2 different states, so I didn't know if that was different in other parts of the county.

On the GSUSA website it says troops are not required to sell.

 

I can see some Cookie Mom going rogue and saying "all girls need to sell" but that really isn't the case.

[Catwoman]

They are $4 a box here.  So for areas where they are $5, the breakdown would certainly be different.  But I do think that people tend to think that GS is all about the local troop, but it's not just the individual troop.  I did a whole lot with scouts that went beyond the troop.  Council wide events and programs and trips can be attended by individual girls without the entire troop going.

 

We pay $4.00 a box, too. I know this because we buy a lot of GS cookies. I hate most of the other fundraising stuff, but I'm pretty much always willing to buy more cookies. :)

[Caroline]

I've never heard of a quota for Girl Scouts selling cookies. I really think that would be against the rules and the leader would have to step down. We are not allowed to treat girls who sell 0 boxes any differently than the one who sold 200. We also have to have permission for our booth sales from council.

 

As for the choir, you would have to get permission from the mall to sing there, but lots of businesses are very open to that.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah, I'm hoping to get a spring concert approved next year.  there was no room in the calendar.  I'm singing at churches and such instead. 

 

Our choir is super lucky because the programs are donated by a local business. 

[Caroline]

We pay $4.00 a box, too. I know this because we buy a lot of GS cookies. I hate most of the other fundraising stuff, but I'm pretty much always willing to buy more cookies. :)

And we Girl Scouts thank you very much!

 

We are a $4 box area, and our troop keeps $.70 per box. We sell about 2000 boxes (7 girls) a year. We used the money for our Savannah trip last year. We are saving up for a big trip in high school.

[unsinkable]

We pay $4.00 a box, too. I know this because we buy a lot of GS cookies. I hate most of the other fundraising stuff, but I'm pretty much always willing to buy more cookies. :)

DD's best customer used to buy them by the case! :lol:

 

We loved that family! The mom would say: "give me 2 thin mint, 2 do-si-do, 1 trefoil."

 

And she meant 2 CASES thin mints, etc...

[Catwoman]

DD's best customer used to buy them by the case! :lol:

 

We loved that family! The mom would say: "give me 2 thin mint, 2 do-si-do, 1 trefoil."

 

And she meant 2 CASES thin mints, etc...

So... how do I go about getting invited to that woman's house for coffee? ;)

[AimeeM]

I believe our laws are friendly to that. I worry that it comes across tacky or suspicious. Thoughts? How likely would you be to buy something from a kid who is raising money to participate in his choir verses Girl Scout cookies?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would very likely to contribute. Recently, we had a couple of young men come to our door selling cheap things (jars of tootsie rolls, dog treats, etc) at a hugely inflated price, so they could attend some sort of trip with an organization through the local Police Department that they belonged to. It made me sad that the first they showed me was the piece of paper giving them the legal ability to come door to door (I have an issue with governing bodies making it illegal for kids to do these things without a "license," but that's a different conversation).

Of course we contributed. I think it shows great character that they are willing to "put themselves out there" to get what they want. 

[FaithManor]

Our robotics team is through 4 H but we do not get $ from 4 H to fund it.

We still also have to participate in 4 H fundraisers for the organization, but we don't get any of that money.

 

We do our own fundraisers for our team, but can use the non profit status & 4 H logo to advertise. All must be approved by 4H.

We wanted to raffle off a quilt donated to us, but 4 H doesn't allow "gambling" fundraisers or just asking for donations, so no Go fund me style campaigns.

They want the kids to work for the money by raking leaves, etc, but that doesn't raise the thousands of follars we need for robotics.

 

Ones we've done the last few years- (mind you, only a couple families help with any of these)

 

Annual garage sale during a neighborhood garage sale day (nets around $500), kids also sell baked goods & drinks during it (a lot of work & we collect stuff year round as donations to save for the sale)

 

Annual Car wash outside farm store ($300 ish, pretty good for a couple of hours!)

 

Collect soda cans for returning, ongoing

 

We once did a soda can collection/ spare change donation thing door to door, but was a lot of work for the $200ish.

 

Our best $ generating is from donations from local civic groups like Kiwanas & Rotary clubs. The kids give them a nice presentation about their robot & need for money to build & compete. They donate a few hundred every year.

 

We got a huge grant from a local agency 2 years also, that funded a computer & robot parts. That was awesome.

 

Each year, the 4 H organization debates if they'll let us " have" $ Donated by local groups. (Since they want the kids to earn it). IMO, giving a professional presentation or writing a grant application is working for it.

I feel your pain.

 

Our program director and state director are at least a bit more on the generous side.

 

Our 4H Council gives us an annual donation of $500.00, and the program director gives us $250.00 for curriculum and supplies. We have been known to hit up local businesses and offer advertising on the side of the rocket which was also allowed. We've had change drives, pop can drives, rent-a-teen (so lots of physical labor there), etc.

 

I think 4H is going to have to change the face of how it goes about this if it is going to continue to push for robotics, rocketry, aviation engineering, and the like. While the livestock clubs get HUGE money from selling farm animals and major donations from John Deere and the like, the STEM clubs don't have these kinds of big underwriters. We have over 50 businesses in Michigan that are related to aerospace engineering in some way, and not one of them was willing to donate even though they would get a lot of free advertising out of it including being in the MSU 4H newspaper, names on banners at events that draw hundreds and even thousands for those that we do on campus, advertising at Huntsville with NASA , Space X, etc.- their reason for existing for crying out loud on these projects so you'd think they'd want to look good - etc. It is VERY hard to get some of the companies to equate investing in youth with investing in their future employees.

[regentrude]

 Since we are church sponsored and the church council is VERY involved.  

 

If the church sponsors the choir and sets rules what the choir can do, maybe they should also fund the choir?

Have you approached them?

[lauraw4321]

Girl scout cookies cost $5 a box. When people ask me to buy them, I usually just give them $5. 100% of that goes to the troop.

 

I don't have an issue with non-profits having overhead expenses or well paid professional staff. Or spending money to make money. But as an experienced non-profit fundraisier, I have a dim view of the "buy stuff and a slice of the proceeds go to your local troop" model of fundraising. The girl scouts have, all things considered, a pretty good version of it. The cub scout popcorn is too expensive to sell nearly as well and our troop doesn't see a lot of those funds. Other "sell stuff" fundraisers are an even worse deal. That wrapping paper company? Schools see less than 1/4 of that money. I know because I axed that fundraiser for a charity that I used to work for. A lot of work for volunteers to sell, for free, a product for a private for profit company.

Our council told us we cannot take straight donations at booths. Those donations must be used to purchase cookies to donate. (Because council doesn't get a cut of a straight donation).

[Carrie12345]

My main problem with fundraisers (aside from the fact that I already have to pick and choose what my own kids get to do based on our finances) is that I don't need or want most of what kids are selling.  Asking me to pay $20 for a $15 item I'm not interested in frustrates me, because then I look like a bad guy for not going along with every kid I know's request for $20. (Or more!)

 

I am a sucker for Girl Scout cookies, not just because I was a 12 year scout, but because I like Tagalongs. And I try to kick in an extra couple of bucks because I know the girls get hardly anything from their sales.

 

I'm a sucker for a good Tricky Tray, because there's almost always something interesting to win for less than I spend, and the fun of it has its own value.

 

Spaghetti dinners and pancake breakfasts are usually less expensive than taking my family to a restaurant, so that's a fun outing that saves me money and benefits someone else.

 

I'd be happy to employ an eager landscaper or car washer or (in the past) babysitter.

 

Just like any other transaction, I want my money's worth, unless it's something I'm passionate enough about to make a straight up charitable donation. In which case, keep the dohickeys and thingamajigs. Please!

[Annie G]

Seekinghim45- things that work in our small town- car wash, date night (the parents drop kids off and they go on a date. While they are gone, the kids watch a movie, play games, eat, stuff like that. Great if you can get a church to let you use the facility), spring clean up of yards (all the kids show up with rakes, and they hit a neighborhood and ask permission to do a yard clean up for a donation. It doesn't take long with a dozen kids, and people usually give $20 or more.   A group yard sale- often you can put out the word that you're accepting donations and are willing to pick things up. People are glad to donate stuff they don't need but don't want to bother to sell/donate. 

 

I'm big on the kids doing work themselves, as you can tell. 

[Carrie12345]

Our council told us we cannot take straight donations at booths. Those donations must be used to purchase cookies to donate. (Because council doesn't get a cut of a straight donation).

 

That's just mean.  Booth sales around here (Boy and Girl Scouts) always have a donation can.

[Annie G]

Our council told us we cannot take straight donations at booths. Those donations must be used to purchase cookies to donate. (Because council doesn't get a cut of a straight donation).

 

I saw that last weekend when we were doing antique shop hopping. One place let girl scouts set up a booth and one of the girls was ending her shift and asked how much they made in donations and the lady in charge answered in boxes, not dollars.  Now it makes sense why she said that. But BOO for that policy!!!!!!

[Erica in OR]

So what would you suggest for my small choir at my private school?  I am totally with a lot of you.  But out of my 12 kids, about 5 are in need of financial assistance for anything extra.  The school already does a couple of big fundraisers, and then the sports teams do fundraisers.  Our school costs half of what the other private schools in the area do because they want to give an opportunity for Christian education for those that cannot afford it.  So those fundraisers actually pay quite a bit of teacher salary. ( which is very low)    So, if I want a choir uniform or t-shirt or for us to go to a festival, I would need to raise those funds somehow.  One idea someone mentioned that I could see was car washes at Chic-Fil-A.  However, you have to book months in advance. Anyway, just trying to brainstorm for next year.  I also HATE fundraising. 

 

I'd focus on just doing the choir and honing their abilities—the singing is the main thing, not having (yet another) special shirt for them to outgrow or to attend somewhere else to sing there. This, even more so, since you say it's the first year for the group.

 

If you're looking for additional singing opportunities, I suggest looking for a local adult choir that already does concerts and ask if your group could add a song or two to the program, or if the adult choir would be interested in a joint song with your students.

 

My children belonged to a local community choir, and I appreciated that it was all about the music and getting to be a better singer. They participated in two local concerts a year as a small part of the program for a community adult choir. Outfits were just a white top, black pants or skirt, that did not need to be identical to the other children.

 

Erica in OR

[Catwoman]

Our council told us we cannot take straight donations at booths. Those donations must be used to purchase cookies to donate. (Because council doesn't get a cut of a straight donation).

Wow, that could be awkward.

 

"We don't eat cookies, but here's a $10.00 donation."

 

"Ok, that's 2 boxes of cookies at $4.00 a box and we owe you $2.00 change."

 

"But I don't want cookies. I just want to support your troop."

 

"JUST TAKE THE COOKIES, LADY, AND STEP AWAY FROM THE TABLE. Oh, and don't forget your change. And thank you for supporting the Girl Scouts." :)

[regentrude]

The problem is what to wear at a concert!  No formal black...that is way out of the price range.   I tried black and white for Christmas, but they didn't look so hot.  tMany of them didn't have anything other than jeans.  Jeans and a t-shirt seems like the cheapest option.. 

 

Then have them wear jeans and a solid colored T.  What was the problem with b&w? That is the standard for many amateur choirs. 

And you don't need formal black - just black would be fine.

 

Seriously, attire comes way behind musical ability. You say they don't sing well yet - dressing them up isn't going to fix that.

Edited March 6, 2017 by regentrude

[FaithManor]

The problem is what to wear at a concert!  No formal black...that is way out of the price range.   I tried black and white for Christmas, but they didn't look so hot.  tMany of them didn't have anything other than jeans.  Jeans and a t-shirt seems like the cheapest option..    In our public schools 68 percent are on free lunch.  I would say about half of our students are one free scholarships here. 

Ouch. Are most of the kids old enough to wear adult sizes? I wonder if any churches have robes that could rented.

[FaithManor]

I definitely hate getting requests for "mission trips".  How about I send the money to Plumbers without Borders and call it good?  

Agree completely. These trips are usually "mission tourism" but in reality it is rare that the group provides a service that is really helpful. Even ones where they build a house. The travel expenses could have been used to hire local workers to build the house which would assist the people a whole lot more and put money into the local economy. 

 

Professional groups like Doctors without Borders, the plumbers guild who came to Flint and installed water filters for free, my cousin's well drilling business where he pays his employees to go into villages in Africa to put in wells and pays for the equipment to be stored in country so they don't pay freight each time they go,  etc., these are the "missions" that are worth the money.

 

When dh and I went to Egypt - dh is doing IT work for a remote hospital that has no option to get that in the country as they don't even have computer science majors at their universities which is a real problem with so much medical technology computer driven - we paid our own way, and what he was doing was very much needed. He went at the request of the administrator of the hospital. I tutored several of the medical professionals children in algebra, chemistry, and geometry because the schools are so bad they can't send their children to them and have them be able to attend school back here in the states when they come home. Again, did not ask anyone for money for it.

 

Teens going to Mexico to build a house? No. Sorry. I see these trips which invariably include a lot more time sightseeing than working. There are local men and women who desperately need the wages for building that house. That is where the money should go in my opinion but I realize others feel differently. I know one set of professionals that say they need the mission tourism in order to keep the donors stateside interested in what they are doing because "Americans are a bit A.D.D. about the long term need here so having a local come here for a week helps rally the troops". But I am not a fan, and do not support these kinds of things unless the group going is entirely professional/trades providing a service that can't be procurred locally. Mother in law, a retired pediatric nurse, once went to Nicaragua to do health education, vaccines, etc.in some remote areas. We definitely supported that.

[Catwoman]

The problem is what to wear at a concert! No formal black...that is way out of the price range. I tried black and white for Christmas, but they didn't look so hot. tMany of them didn't have anything other than jeans. Jeans and a t-shirt seems like the cheapest option.. In our public schools 68 percent are on free lunch. I would say about half of our students are one free scholarships here.

How about jeans and matching t-shirts? They often go on sale at Michael's and JoAnn for $2.00 each, and if everyone wore the same color t-shirt, that would be an inexpensive way for everyone to look coordinated.

[FaithManor]

 For a children's handbell choir, I once canvassed several area churches and asked to rent their "angel" robes from their nativity plays. These are always white, plain, long. Most places only charged us a $1.00 each plus a security deposit for damages so it was really cheap once we got the security deposits back. We then took $1.00 a yard Walmart gold polyester and made small overlays for cheap. I had to draft several people to help with the sewing, but it occurs to me that this was 20 years ago, and potentially not as many families own sewing machines now given the costs of the appliance and the lack of teaching of sewing skills in the culture these days. HMMM....but even so, without the overlays it would be okay

 

I told the kids to wear light colored or light t shirts and then light pants or shorts. It worked.

[Wheres Toto]

I feel your pain.

 

Our program director and state director are at least a bit more on the generous side.

 

Our 4H Council gives us an annual donation of $500.00, and the program director gives us $250.00 for curriculum and supplies. We have been known to hit up local businesses and offer advertising on the side of the rocket which was also allowed. We've had change drives, pop can drives, rent-a-teen (so lots of physical labor there), etc.

 

I think 4H is going to have to change the face of how it goes about this if it is going to continue to push for robotics, rocketry, aviation engineering, and the like. While the livestock clubs get HUGE money from selling farm animals and major donations from John Deere and the like, the STEM clubs don't have these kinds of big underwriters. We have over 50 businesses in Michigan that are related to aerospace engineering in some way, and not one of them was willing to donate even though they would get a lot of free advertising out of it including being in the MSU 4H newspaper, names on banners at events that draw hundreds and even thousands for those that we do on campus, advertising at Huntsville with NASA , Space X, etc.- their reason for existing for crying out loud on these projects so you'd think they'd want to look good - etc. It is VERY hard to get some of the companies to equate investing in youth with investing in their future employees.

 

IT seems like for all the emphasis they are putting on it, STEM is still a really new thing for 4-H.  I run a general 4-H STEM club with younger kids (8 to 11 year olds mostly).  My state doesn't even have a STEM record book, and searching online it seems most states don't have anything either.   I feel like I'm having to invent the wheel sometimes.

 

We don't get any funding from our county or state, but I haven't applied for anything either.  We are able to keep expenses pretty low since we do a variety of things, and aren't involved in any kind of competitions (which seems where the big expenses are).  We did a robotics project using Edison robots, for instance, instead of Lego robotics.  Since this wasn't the only project we did, this worked well.

[Erica in OR]

The problem is what to wear at a concert!  No formal black...that is way out of the price range.   I tried black and white for Christmas, but they didn't look so hot.  tMany of them didn't have anything other than jeans.  Jeans and a t-shirt seems like the cheapest option..    In our public schools 68 percent are on free lunch.  I would say about half of our students are one free scholarships here. 

 

My kids didn't purchase formal black. Our family bought a white blouse and black skirt or flowy pants for each at the thrift store. Or go with white uniform polos ($4–5 each at Walmart) and then jeans if that's what they have. I just don't think it has to be an elaborate option that requires fundraising.

 

Our schools here are in the same boat—all public elementary and middle school students are automatically on free lunch.

 

Erica in OR

[FaithManor]

Hmm...here, 4-H clubs get NO money. The kid pays his fee ($15) for the year and then anything he spends on his animals, goes to him. He sells at a good price (we have the highest auction prices in the state as we take VERY good care of our buyers). Dd got $19 a lb on her lamb last year. The kid pays the brand inspection, shipping costs and the county takes out a percentage to pay for new pens, etc. Of course, if you decide you're going to buy that Grand Champion lamb and pay $1500 for a 95 lber, you won't make much at auction. But, if you raise your own, from ewes you've spent all year feeding, shearing, watering, etc. you'll make a good profit. And when you graduate, you have a nice flock to sell. The baking kids can sell an extra pie/cake/scones at the general projects auction--they usually make $65 each. They pay for all their own ingredients for their projects. 

 

 

 

See and this is an issue for a lot of us. 4H isn't only agriculture anymore, and it keeps pushing to expand into other areas. That's great. Not every kid lives on a farm so having more options is a good thing. But the downside is no one has an animal at the end of the project to sell to re-coup the costs of the project or fund future ones. We can't find a buyer for $4500.00 for a 9 ft. 5.5" high powered rocket with a scientific payload or the 3D printer that junior built, or....

 

It is a big, big problem. Huge. At some point, if they are going to do more than agriculture and do it even remotely well, the paid powers that be are going to have to get off their little tushies and write some grants, big grants, and get some money and start distributing it so leaders have something to work with. Sewing machines aren't cheap, paint supplies are not cheap for those fine arts clubs nor are easels for display, the components to even simple robots can be out of sight, .....

 

Duke University piloted a program with us four years ago. It was for STEM kits and curriculum that they researched and created through a National Science Foundation grant. Since we were a guinea pig test club, we got to do the projects for free in exchange for educator feedback and editing of the curriculum. They then finalized the kits and went on to sell them. They average $500-$600 a kit for 12 kids. That's upwards of $50.00 per student. Oh, they have the wealthier schools buying them for the teachers to use, but the whole concept - providing this really cool curriculum and kit for after school programs to help shore up science education and experience - feel completely flat because Scouts, 4H, you name it, doesn't have that kind of funding. I mean, I'd be run out of town on a rail if I told parents that we were going to do one of these projects every month at $50.00 per kid, 8 months of the year, and 4H nor any other funding source was being provided. We have parents willing to pay for rocketry team because it is a HIGH end academic pursuit. Big time. Not just a "project". (They submitted their Flight Readiness Review document on Saturday....185 pages of pure engineering documenttion.) However, families aren't going to be willing or able to come up with that just for "science activities".

 

Yet, that is what Michigan State University expects. Some how, without funding, leaders should go buy these kinds of things for their club members to do. Uhm....no. And that is why for 8 years we were the only science club in the entire state, and are now currently one of FOUR. Exactly four. That's it.

 

So one of two things will happen. Either MSU will get a grip, think this thing through, and start finding some funding sources, or they will give up on having science clubs, fine arts clubs, culinary clubs, etc. We have a hard time keeping the culinary club going because they have to pay to rent the community kitchen whenever they are working on their skills, and that is not cheap. But county laws and blah, blah blah, makes it so the leader cannot use her kitchen and then "serve the public" ie. the CLUB as a whole. If they advertise potluck, then each kid can make something at home and bring it, consume at own risk. But if it is a group project to cook a meal through 4H for other students or leaders or even parents to sample, then they have to use a licensed kitchen. GRRRRRR.......I think they get charged $100.00 every time they use that kitchen. You know....because it would apparently kill the county finances to let an enterprising group of kids use it for a few hours three or four times a year. (sarcasm in case you didn't catch that :D )

[Lang Syne Boardie]

The best youth choir my boys ever joined was an inner-city, church-sponsored choir that was taught by two very qualified (and wonderful) volunteers. (Two different directors; my boys were in the choir for years.)

 

They never had special clothes. All of the kids wore their Sunday best, whatever that was...believe it or not, if your youth choir is very well-trained, skilled, and good at performing, nobody will care what they're wearing! And our choir was like that. The instruction on everything from singing to stage manners was amazingly good; the directors were disciplined and effective. The choir was soon welcome in many venues, from holidays at the mall downtown to gospel music at a nursing home. And of course, they sang in the worship services at church, every other month or so.

 

I think the matching t-shirt idea is a good one. I wonder if the church sponsoring the group could spring for the shirts?

 

If the church sponsoring the group won't allow anything sensible in the way of free practice and free performance opportunities, and won't shell out $5 per kid for a lousy t-shirt, maybe ask yourself why you're letting the church run your choir...

 

 

[Wheres Toto]

See and this is an issue for a lot of us. 4H isn't only agriculture anymore, and it keeps pushing to expand into other areas. That's great. Not every kid lives on a farm so having more options is a good thing. But the downside is no one has an animal at the end of the project to sell to re-coup the costs of the project or fund future ones. We can't find a buyer for $4500.00 for a 9 ft. 5.5" high powered rocket with a scientific payload or the 3D printer that junior built, or....

 

It is a big, big problem. Huge. At some point, if they are going to do more than agriculture and do it even remotely well, the paid powers that be are going to have to get off their little tushies and write some grants, big grants, and get some money and start distributing it so leaders have something to work with. Sewing machines aren't cheap, paint supplies are not cheap for those fine arts clubs nor are easels for display, the components to even simple robots can be out of sight, .....

 

Duke University piloted a program with us four years ago. It was for STEM kits and curriculum that they researched and created through a National Science Foundation grant. Since we were a guinea pig test club, we got to do the projects for free in exchange for educator feedback and editing of the curriculum. They then finalized the kits and went on to sell them. They average $500-$600 a kit for 12 kids. That's upwards of $50.00 per student. Oh, they have the wealthier schools buying them for the teachers to use, but the whole concept - providing this really cool curriculum and kit for after school programs to help shore up science education and experience - feel completely flat because Scouts, 4H, you name it, doesn't have that kind of funding. I mean, I'd be run out of town on a rail if I told parents that we were going to do one of these projects every month at $50.00 per kid, 8 months of the year, and 4H nor any other funding source was being provided. We have parents willing to pay for rocketry team because it is a HIGH end academic pursuit. Big time. Not just a "project". (They submitted their Flight Readiness Review document on Saturday....185 pages of pure engineering documenttion.) However, families aren't going to be willing or able to come up with that just for "science activities".

 

Yet, that is what Michigan State University expects. Some how, without funding, leaders should go buy these kinds of things for their club members to do. Uhm....no. And that is why for 8 years we were the only science club in the entire state, and are now currently one of FOUR. Exactly four. That's it.

 

So one of two things will happen. Either MSU will get a grip, think this thing through, and start finding some funding sources, or they will give up on having science clubs, fine arts clubs, culinary clubs, etc. We have a hard time keeping the culinary club going because they have to pay to rent the community kitchen whenever they are working on their skills, and that is not cheap. But county laws and blah, blah blah, makes it so the leader cannot use her kitchen and then "serve the public" ie. the CLUB as a whole. If they advertise potluck, then each kid can make something at home and bring it, consume at own risk. But if it is a group project to cook a meal through 4H for other students or leaders or even parents to sample, then they have to use a licensed kitchen. GRRRRRR.......I think they get charged $100.00 every time they use that kitchen. You know....because it would apparently kill the county finances to let an enterprising group of kids use it for a few hours three or four times a year. (sarcasm in case you didn't catch that :D )

 

We have gotten a few activities by joining the Civil Air Patrol.  They have kits that include telescopes, robotics, and various other STEM things.  All we have to do is post a review and pictures after we use a kit and then we can order another one.  We currently have the telescope one and I'm waiting for a non-cloudy meeting night to use it.   

 

Of course, who knows how long there will be funding for that!

[Hilltopmom]

Sing it, FaithManor.

 

Exactly!

The STEM clubs are group projects. Big expensive group projects.

Nothing to sell for profits afterwards, just expensive robotics parts to hopefully reuse some of the next year.

 

Younger kids can borrow nxt kits from the 4 H office, but our kids are way past that level.

 

I think just the registration fee for each of our FTC tournaments was $400ish? We did two this year.

 

Buying all the parts, computers, etc.... Yeah, 4 H is not funding that.

But the $ has to come from somewhere for the kids to do it.

 

We stay a 4 H club just for the insurance & non profit status. Not just for the chance to work in the barn during fair week ;) although we do that too

 

(We also do a "regular -lots of different projects" 4 H group & the teens used to raise small animals)

Edited March 6, 2017 by Hilltopmom

[Andromeda]

I am sorry, but I do not think that kids are entitled to any special events just because their peers attend.

 

I grew up relatively poor - we had the necessities but the McDonalds burger was too expensive. If I wanted anything extra, I had to work and earn the money myself. I started by collecting soda cans and plastic bottles and recycling them for five cents apiece. I probably earned about $2 a week, but it was my money and if I really wanted that McDonalds burger like my friends could buy, I would proudly walk into the shop with my own cash. 

 

When I got old enough (about 16), I started babysitting and saving my money. I attended summer high school programs that paid money for inner city kids to go to and bought my first computer that way. It was pretty high competition to get in and you had to have good grades. I am not sure if these still exist, but they sure were great. When I went to college, I worked 2 jobs and paid my own way. It can be done. One of my best friends was a waitress throughout high school and bought her own car, the $500 special with her own money. She also put herself through college. If we wanted to go out, I paid for gas, and we split the cost of food. My other best friend came from a middle class family and did not have to work in high school or college. She had some nice things, but I had never resented that. You get what you can and enjoy it.

 

It never occurred to me to ask to participate in choir unless it was free and run by my school (I did this in elementary school). I never had music lessons, ballet, or sports. I went to camp three times, one of which I was a daytime counselor. 

 

Now that I have kids, I can provide them with some things, but not nearly to the extend I see some of my friends do, and it does not bother me at all. We do what we can afford. If we can earn money, cut from another area of budget, get a gift from family- great. We do the activity. If we cannot get the money, we simply don't do it.

 

 

 

[SamanthaCarter]

:( I don't feel like I'm trying to give my kids anything more than exposure to some things that they would have the opportunity to participate in if they went to out local public school. 

 

[ScoutTN]

Actually, not all that much of the money that scouts raise selling commercially made cookies and popcorn goes to the scouts.  Most of it ends up in the council's bank account, with a chunk going to the bakeries.  We aren't enthusiastic popcorn sellers because of this (we do the minimal expected selling time and call it good), but I do help with all of the fundraisers within the pack where the money stays with the pack.  

 

 

 

What is the typical split on this? Ds' pack keeps 50% of the sales. No clue where the other 50% goes, but I always assumed it was to the cost of the product. Maybe not?! The pack uses a different popcorn company than the one most scouts here sell. Cubmaster did not mention any of the money going to the council. The boys get 10% of their sales in cash, so the pack actually gets 40%. Ds is a natural salesman and sold well over $500 in a week. He is aiming much higher for next year!

 

Dd's AHG troop keeps all of the fundraising proceeds, after cost of product or event. Nothing goes to nationals. They do very well selling coffee and get a 50% on it. Dd is not as good of a salesperson as Ds, but coffee is easier to sell than popcorn, imo. The troop does not support freeloaders. They will help with some costs for events or camp, but only if the family is clearly working to help pay for it and participates in the fundraiser. Our troop is entirely funded this way, so some kind of fundraiser is necessary because our families definitely cannot cover all the costs. 

 

We only have two fundraisers in a year, one for each kid, so it is not burdensome. I like that my kids are learning that camp and scout events are not free and that working to earn necessary funds is a good thing, even when it is outside their comfort zone. We are fortunate to have friends and neighbors who can afford to buy and are happy to. I know not everyone has that situation!

 

We do have friends whose kids have multiple fundraisers each year but not many people to willing or able to buy and I can see how it could be an enormous headache.

[Guest]

What age?

What are you raising money for?

 

At our local public school, gen ed choir does not have uniforms, robes or tee shirts. One wears the assigned colors...if one doesnt have an item, one borrows from a friend or cousin, or borrows from the scout closet (the girl scouts collect black and white tops and bottoms and shoes from those who have outgrown theirs and have no one to hand it down to).

High school choir is the only group that travels and they pay for it 100% , with a parent booster club doing the fundraising paperwork.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Heigh Ho

[unsinkable]

:( I don't feel like I'm trying to give my kids anything more than exposure to some things that they would have the opportunity to participate in if they went to out local public school.

(((rachel)))

 

I'd give my kids the moon if I could.

[FaithManor]

Sing it, FaithManor.

 

Exactly!

The STEM clubs are group projects. Big expensive group projects.

Nothing to sell for profits afterwards, just expensive robotics parts to hopefully reuse some of the next year.

 

Younger kids can borrow nxt kits from the 4 H office, but our kids are way past that level.

 

I think just the registration fee for each of our FTC tournaments was $400ish? We did two this year.

 

Buying all the parts, computers, etc.... Yeah, 4 H is not funding that.

But the $ has to come from somewhere for the kids to do it.

 

We stay a 4 H club just for the insurance & non profit status. Not just for the chance to work in the barn during fair week ;) although we do that too

 

(We also do a "regular -lots of different projects" 4 H group & the teens used to raise small animals)

We could sing a LONG epic, saga on this couldn't we!

 

Oh, and last year half the livestock club members didn't show up to clean the barns. My club kids were in the exhibits barn cleaning up and putting up displays, and guess who they came to get to work in the livestock barns? You guessed it. I said that my club would come, if and only if, we were paid $500.00 from the pool of livestock clubs who did not provide enough workers since we have nothing to sell down at our barn to fund our projects, but we'd be working to clean up and set up cages for the kids who do clean up financially. They don't want to do the work? Fine. But they can pay the people who do.

 

They stormed out of the exhibits barn. I don't know who ended up doing the work, Probably the club leaders because too many of them are soft. Just one year. One year. I'd like to see them say, "Short of injury, major illness, or family emergency all of which will have to be reported to the 4H program director in order to receive a waiver, you either come clean and set up, or you don't exhibit and sell an animal!" then live to enforce it. Seriously, I guarantee you that the kid who got $3500 for his steer last summer will show up to work. As it is, many of them don't show up, and yet exhibit and sell their animals each season, come on Sunday to pick up the critter and deliver it to the buyer or the meat packing plant, and never come back to clean up. You always see completely worn out 4H leaders and their own kids doing the work. That irritates the fire out of me.

 

And as much as I complain about people who want everything handed to them, I must publicly say that again, this is not the majority of our parents or we wouldn't be doing this. For example, dh and I needed to be in Huntsville for our NASA training at the same time that fair week was happening. We could run the science fair since that is the Saturday before opening day, but couldn't be there to tear down the exhibit barn. I had three families volunteer to go in on Sunday morning early and take it all down, box it all up. They went in at 7 a.m. and had it down and delivered to our house for our boys to put in the basement by 9 a.m. The families who care about dh and I are the ones that keep us going otherwise we'd be done by now! 

 

I sure wish we could sell a rocket for cash for projects! Man that would be pretty awesome! Or one of the students' walking robotic spiders, or a photosynthesis project....no buyers. That's just not something that one can sell.

[unsinkable]

the church is sponsoring the school. The fundraising they already do covers teacher salaries. ( Tuition doesn't pay it all. ) All the extra-curricular are responsible for paying for their own costs. Just the way it is. They are doing the best they can and want to provide a service for the community and keep costs as low as possible. I've pretty much bought all the sheet music I'm using and accompaniment tracks myself.

Catholic parishes have supported parochial schools for decades. This isn't new.

 

It just got much more expensive when so many nuns no longer teach and the costs increased due to having to pay more salaries.

 

When I was a kid, tuition was free as long as you regularly used envelopes. You could give as little as $1 a week and your kids weren't charged tuition and still some people didn't give.

 

Teachers every where supplement their classes with stuff they purchase themselves. Again, nothing new.

[SKL]

Interesting point.  I am not against fundraisers.  I'm just against the attitude that everyone *has* to participate in the group's chosen fundraiser.  Come to think about it, I'm probably doing some people a favor by *not* selling, so those who need to do so will have a bigger market to sell to.  They could even sell to me, if it's good enough stuff.  :)

 

Our school has many opportunities to "fundraise," and many of the options direct 100% of the profit to the family's 8th grade trip account.  Which is great if you have more time than money.  But I feel no guilt declining those fundraisers, because I'm not "hurting" anyone by doing so.

[Guest]

Ten dollars for a t shirt is too much for something worn so little, in the view of many parents. Is there a uniform shirt they could wear, or could a store put the school name on a polo?

[unsinkable]

We could sing a LONG epic, saga on this couldn't we!

 

Oh, and last year half the livestock club members didn't show up to clean the barns. My club kids were in the exhibits barn cleaning up and putting up displays, and guess who they came to get to work in the livestock barns? You guessed it. I said that my club would come, if and only if, we were paid $500.00 from the pool of livestock clubs who did not provide enough workers since we have nothing to sell down at our barn to fund our projects, but we'd be working to clean up and set up cages for the kids who do clean up financially. They don't want to do the work? Fine. But they can pay the people who do.

 

They stormed out of the exhibits barn. I don't know who ended up doing the work, Probably the club leaders because too many of them are soft. Just one year. One year. I'd like to see them say, "Short of injury, major illness, or family emergency all of which will have to be reported to the 4H program director in order to receive a waiver, you either come clean and set up, or you don't exhibit and sell an animal!" then live to enforce it. Seriously, I guarantee you that the kid who got $3500 for his steer last summer will show up to work. As it is, many of them don't show up, and yet exhibit and sell their animals each season, come on Sunday to pick up the critter and deliver it to the buyer or the meat packing plant, and never come back to clean up. You always see completely worn out 4H leaders and their own kids doing the work. That irritates the fire out of me.

 

And as much as I complain about people who want everything handed to them, I must publicly say that again, this is not the majority of our parents or we wouldn't be doing this. For example, dh and I needed to be in Huntsville for our NASA training at the same time that fair week was happening. We could run the science fair since that is the Saturday before opening day, but couldn't be there to tear down the exhibit barn. I had three families volunteer to go in on Sunday morning early and take it all down, box it all up. They went in at 7 a.m. and had it down and delivered to our house for our boys to put in the basement by 9 a.m. The families who care about dh and I are the ones that keep us going otherwise we'd be done by now!

 

I sure wish we could sell a rocket for cash for projects! Man that would be pretty awesome! Or one of the students' walking robotic spiders, or a photosynthesis project....no buyers. That's just not something that one can sell.

Well, there is the $15,000 in scholarships your kids earned.

[myfunnybunch]

I haven't read the whole thread.

 

But one thing you might consider is joining the board for your choir, or getting to know the board members and doing some brainstorming about helping families afford choir.

 

Our children's choir board, a few years ago, reorganized and made whole-choir fundraising a priority so that we could offer more scholarships and help drop the costs of things like uniforms and trips. For example, a scholarship fund and application procedure was established for families who fall just above the qualifying line for financial assistance but still find it challenging to pay the entire tuition amount. Very few people apply, and those that do are quite modest in their tuition requests, so the fund has always had plenty of $ available.

 

Also, the choir stopped charging for concert tickets and set up a concessions and donations table instead, and ended up making as much or more than the ticket proceeds, especially when the cost of printing tickets and order forms (and the time cost of finding volunteers to oversee ticket sales and make sure all of the money was turned in and....) was taken into account.

 

Individual choirs help fundraise for their trips. My son's choir is traveling to New York, and they are fundraising up a storm. Some of the choristers are great musicians and have done small performances at local restaurants. The choir puts all of the money they raise when they perform in the community into the trip fund. The cost of the trip for each individual has already dropped significantly, thanks to the efforts of the amazing volunteers who are busting their buns to raise enough money that each chorister can participate without straining family finances.

 

My other sons' choir is putting together a simple event to fundraise for a trip to Disneyland--they will sing at a local pizza place. The pizza place is donating a portion of the proceeds from those who mention the choir, and a fabulous parent has asked businesses for donations for raffle baskets to be raffled at the end of the event. Because the baskets are 100% donated items, each chorister gets to put 100% of the $ for tickets they sell toward their individual trip account. And we don't have to get out to sell popcorn or wrapping paper or candles for a percentage of the $ we collect....

 

I am SO grateful for the parents and the board who have time to put into thoughtful fundraising because it means that many families can participate that might not otherwise. :)

[Catwoman]

No, I just want to purchase a 10 dollar t-shirt for them.  That is it!!  I tried the black and white thing at the last concert and it didn't happen.  They couldn't get it or whatever.

 

  

Ten dollars for a t shirt is too much for something worn so little, in the view of many parents. Is there a uniform shirt they could wear, or could a store put the school name on a polo?

I agree with heigh ho. I already mentioned that you can get $2.00 t-shirts if you use coupons or watch for sales at Michaels or JoAnn.

 

Why spend $10.00 when you can spend $2.00? The quality is about the same.

[Guest]

.

Edited March 6, 2017 by OKBud