So tired of Obama being accused of ridiculous things

[Parabola]

Everyday I come here and there's at least one new thread attacking Obama. Usually for unfounded, often ridiculous charges.

 

Do you who post about it really think he wants to kill babies?

 

Do you who post about it really think he's a terrorist?

 

Do you who post about it really think he's going to endanger homeschooling?

y

Do you who post about it reall think he's going to turn the country into a communist state?

 

Those are just a few of the more recent ones. I'm sick of the fear-mongering.

 

I don't see any threads accusing McCain of being a member of the KKK. Thats just as ridiculous of the accusation that Obama is a terrorist.

 

As for socialism....this country would have to travel so much further to even get near to true socialism. Universal healthcare does not a socialist country make. We can adapt some more socialist leaning policies and be a better country for it, I don't understand the fear of this.

 

There are some that say that no one should get help, they have to rely on themselves. Thats wonderful if you have the means to do so. I would like to say: there ARE people who need help, who have NO CHANCE without it. Period. Are we to be merciful to them (bible anyone?) or are we to tell them to get a job and a house when they have neither. When they are living day to day hour to hour just to stay alive. I'm willing to help them.

 

I hear a lot of things about taxes. They're going to be raised no matter who is elected. This is how we pay for things like roads, and agencies that inspect food, that help keep people safe. Are these things you are no longer willing to pay for? Because somebody has to.

 

I don't see any threads accusing McCain of the scandals he's been involved in. Well...I saw one.

 

I don't see any threads questioning McCain's character with his wife situation.

 

I have seen some anti-McCain threads, and even a few more anti-Palin threads. But comparitively speaking, the numbers aren't even close.

 

Whats makes it even more annoying is that when these anti-Obama people are presented with facts and sources that exonerate him or expose the mistakes in the sources they have quoted, they don't respond to it. They don't consider the possibility that they may have erroneous information. They just stop arguing that point and move on to another. Or they keep arguing the point even when the point has been shown to be wrong.

 

I'm just tired of hearing all the baloney associated with this candidate. Yes he's my horse in this race and that makes it all the more frustrating. I'm just thankful that this board is not a realistic representation of the American people, where Obama currently has a decisive lead.

 

I have little hope that this post will make some people see things from a different perspective. And I'm pretty sure I'll be attacked with vigor. But at least I feel better for venting.

 

Have a nice day.

[always cookin']

:iagree:

[hsmamainva]

Not about to attack you!!

 

I'm searching for my missing rep points!!!!

 

:hurray:

 

And I will say this much....I'm not about to attack anyone for voting for John McCain. If he's your candidate, that's just fine by me. That's what makes this a free country!

 

All *I* ask for is the same respect in kind to *my* candidate of choice.

 

And please...do not assume that just because this is a homeschooling board, everyone on here is a Christian who shares your point of view.

[Crissy]

I don't understand why so many people claim to be afraid of the man. He can't fulfil all those promises. No candidate EVER has.

And he appears to be a good man.

 

The overreaction is baffling, and I am appalled by so many of the lies people are telling about him.

 

I don't care for a number of his ideals, so I didn't vote for him (sent in my ballot yesterday). It really is that simple. Vote for him or not.

Edited October 18, 2008 by Crissy

[cathmom]

I completely agree (even though I'm voting for McCain)!

[elegantlion]

Everyday I come here and there's at least one new thread attacking Obama. Usually for unfounded, often ridiculous charges.

 

Do you who post about it really think he wants to kill babies?

 

Do you who post about it really think he's a terrorist?

 

Do you who post about it really think he's going to endanger homeschooling?

y

Do you who post about it reall think he's going to turn the country into a communist state?

 

Those are just a few of the more recent ones. I'm sick of the fear-mongering.

 

I don't see any threads accusing McCain of being a member of the KKK. Thats just as ridiculous of the accusation that Obama is a terrorist.

 

As for socialism....this country would have to travel so much further to even get near to true socialism. Universal healthcare does not a socialist country make. We can adapt some more socialist leaning policies and be a better country for it, I don't understand the fear of this.

 

There are some that say that no one should get help, they have to rely on themselves. Thats wonderful if you have the means to do so. I would like to say: there ARE people who need help, who have NO CHANCE without it. Period. Are we to be merciful to them (bible anyone?) or are we to tell them to get a job and a house when they have neither. When they are living day to day hour to hour just to stay alive. I'm willing to help them.

 

I hear a lot of things about taxes. They're going to be raised no matter who is elected. This is how we pay for things like roads, and agencies that inspect food, that help keep people safe. Are these things you are no longer willing to pay for? Because somebody has to.

 

I don't see any threads accusing McCain of the scandals he's been involved in. Well...I saw one.

 

I don't see any threads questioning McCain's character with his wife situation.

 

I have seen some anti-McCain threads, and even a few more anti-Palin threads. But comparitively speaking, the numbers aren't even close.

 

Whats makes it even more annoying is that when these anti-Obama people are presented with facts and sources that exonerate him or expose the mistakes in the sources they have quoted, they don't respond to it. They don't consider the possibility that they may have erroneous information. They just stop arguing that point and move on to another. Or they keep arguing the point even when the point has been shown to be wrong.

 

I'm just tired of hearing all the baloney associated with this candidate. Yes he's my horse in this race and that makes it all the more frustrating. I'm just thankful that this board is not a realistic representation of the American people, where Obama currently has a decisive lead.

 

I have little hope that this post will make some people see things from a different perspective. And I'm pretty sure I'll be attacked with vigor. But at least I feel better for venting.

 

Have a nice day.

 

I am a Republican and I approve (of) this message.

[Laurel]

Not about to attack you!!

 

I'm searching for my missing rep points!!!!

 

:hurray:

 

And I will say this much....I'm not about to attack anyone for voting for John McCain. If he's your candidate, that's just fine by me. That's what makes this a free country!

 

All *I* ask for is the same respect in kind to *my* candidate of choice.

 

And please...do not assume that just because this is a homeschooling board, everyone on here is a Christian who shares your point of view.

 

:iagree: I feel the exact same way. I understand and respect why a lot of people (here, and those I know IRL) are voting for John McCain. I don't agree with it, but that's okay. I don't think we need to agree all the time. But I do think we should strive to be respectful at all times.

[laylamcb]

Hang on now, Parabola, let's get the record straight. I for one have NEVER said that Obama was a communist.

 

I only said he was the antichrist.

 

:D

 

(I'm kidding. Just to be clear.)

[Julie in Austin]

If it would make you feel better, I could start a post on a rumor I heard about how McCain is an adulterer.

 

Oh, wait. Everyone already knows that and it is a proven fact.

 

I know--I could post on rumors of his involvement in a huge 80s financial scandal.

 

Oh, wait. Everyone already knows that and it is a proven fact.

 

Wait, wait, I've got it: I could write a post insinuating that his wife became a drug addict and--get this!--stole money from a charity to pay for her habit.

 

Oh, wait. Everyone already knows that and it is a proven fact.

 

I give up. Smearing McCain with rumors will never work. I guess we'll just have to keep smearing Obama.

[Zelda]

If it would make you feel better, I could start a post on a rumor I heard about how McCain is an adulterer.

 

Oh, wait. Everyone already knows that and it is a proven fact.

 

I know--I could post on rumors of his involvement in a huge 80s financial scandal.

 

Oh, wait. Everyone already knows that and it is a proven fact.

 

Wait, wait, I've got it: I could write a post insinuating that his wife became a drug addict and--get this!--stole money from a charity to pay for her habit.

 

Oh, wait. Everyone already knows that and it is a proven fact.

 

I give up. Smearing McCain with rumors will never work. I guess we'll just have to keep smearing Obama.

 

Yes, those anti-Obama posts sure are tiresome.

[laylamcb]

If it would make you feel better, I could start a post on a rumor I heard about how McCain is an adulterer.

 

Oh, wait. Everyone already knows that and it is a proven fact.

 

I know--I could post on rumors of his involvement in a huge 80s financial scandal.

 

Oh, wait. Everyone already knows that and it is a proven fact.

 

Wait, wait, I've got it: I could write a post insinuating that his wife became a drug addict and--get this!--stole money from a charity to pay for her habit.

 

Oh, wait. Everyone already knows that and it is a proven fact.

 

I give up. Smearing McCain with rumors will never work. I guess we'll just have to keep smearing Obama.

 

Oy vey. Well, the thread was nice while it lasted. Which wasn't long. :crying:

[qanda]

Everyday I come here and there's at least one new thread attacking Obama. Usually for unfounded, often ridiculous charges.

 

Do you who post about it really think he wants to kill babies?

 

Do you who post about it really think he's a terrorist?

 

Do you who post about it really think he's going to endanger homeschooling?

y

Do you who post about it reall think he's going to turn the country into a communist state?

 

Those are just a few of the more recent ones. I'm sick of the fear-mongering.

 

I don't see any threads accusing McCain of being a member of the KKK. Thats just as ridiculous of the accusation that Obama is a terrorist.

 

As for socialism....this country would have to travel so much further to even get near to true socialism. Universal healthcare does not a socialist country make. We can adapt some more socialist leaning policies and be a better country for it, I don't understand the fear of this.

 

There are some that say that no one should get help, they have to rely on themselves. Thats wonderful if you have the means to do so. I would like to say: there ARE people who need help, who have NO CHANCE without it. Period. Are we to be merciful to them (bible anyone?) or are we to tell them to get a job and a house when they have neither. When they are living day to day hour to hour just to stay alive. I'm willing to help them.

 

I hear a lot of things about taxes. They're going to be raised no matter who is elected. This is how we pay for things like roads, and agencies that inspect food, that help keep people safe. Are these things you are no longer willing to pay for? Because somebody has to.

 

I don't see any threads accusing McCain of the scandals he's been involved in. Well...I saw one.

 

I don't see any threads questioning McCain's character with his wife situation.

 

I have seen some anti-McCain threads, and even a few more anti-Palin threads. But comparitively speaking, the numbers aren't even close.

 

Whats makes it even more annoying is that when these anti-Obama people are presented with facts and sources that exonerate him or expose the mistakes in the sources they have quoted, they don't respond to it. They don't consider the possibility that they may have erroneous information. They just stop arguing that point and move on to another. Or they keep arguing the point even when the point has been shown to be wrong.

 

I'm just tired of hearing all the baloney associated with this candidate. Yes he's my horse in this race and that makes it all the more frustrating. I'm just thankful that this board is not a realistic representation of the American people, where Obama currently has a decisive lead.

 

I have little hope that this post will make some people see things from a different perspective. And I'm pretty sure I'll be attacked with vigor. But at least I feel better for venting.

 

Have a nice day.

 

But, boy do I agree. I think there must be some frustration in the fact that Obama is leading in the polls. Perhaps it would be just the opposite if McCain had a lead. I think the race will be tightening in the coming days and the level of discourse may improve. I think it's a shame that people have to resort to ad hominem to bolster their point and their candidate.

 

The one thing I don't get is how people keep saying they are scared-- weird!

[LisaNY]

I don't understand why so many people claim to be afraid of the man. He can't fulfil all those promises. No candidate EVER has.

And he appears to be a good man.

 

The overreaction is baffling, and I am appalled by so many of the lies people are telling about him.

 

I don't care for a number of his ideals, so I didn't vote for him (sent in my ballot yesterday). It really is that simple. Vote for him or not.

 

Yes, I agree, it's that simple.

[Zelda]

But, boy do I agree. I think there must be some frustration in the fact that Obama is leading in the polls. Perhaps it would be just the opposite if McCain had a lead. I think the race will be tightening in the coming days and the level of discourse may improve. I think it's a shame that people have to resort to ad hominem to bolster their point and their candidate.

 

The one thing I don't get is how people keep saying they are scared-- weird!

 

Opposition said the same thing about GWB both times. And many refused to even refer to him as the president. This isn't something new to this election. And now here's the part where people come on and say, "Yes, but we were right to be scared!" :001_rolleyes:

[cillakat]

I so agree. It shows a frightening lack of independent, critical, logical thinking.

 

Interesting really - considering we're here to discuss (basically) ways to education our children to be independent, critical logical thinkers.

 

:iagree:

[Daisy]

Oh, I'm not so sure. I think the same could be said of all those who faun over Obama. Unfortunately, I think most folks vote on the basis of their personal beliefs and perceptions about a candidate rather than facts. I'm not convinced many at all (meaning America, not necessarily this board specifically) are voting on the basis of the candidates proven voting record. They listen to sound bites, blurps from books, campaign slogans, and empty promises.

 

I'm a 3rd party voter and endorse neither McCain or Obama.

[Audrey]

I agree completely, as you well know.

 

I would like to note that it is nice to see that two of the most offensive ones started today have been 'cleaned up' by admin.

[The Governess]

I think a lot of it stems from the fact that, until a year ago, a lot of people had never even heard of Obama. He is a new, unfamiliar face, and people aren't comfortable with things they aren't familiar with. Unfamiliarity increases doubt, fear, and speculation. Add to that the fact that, let's face it, Obama isn't your average presidential candidate: he has a background of mixed races, religions, and cultures; he has lived abroad and is much more "global" than the typical American; he is arguably more liberal than the average democratic candidate; he is young, polished, and has huge support from young voters. I could go on.

 

All of these things make Obama different, and sometimes something different is exactly what is needed. But people tend to fear things that are different, and I think that's what we are seeing here.

[dcjlkplus3]

I have seen far more anti-McCain/Palin remarks here than anti-Obama ones.

And yes I do tend to think that people post their real feelings and do not have to change them when they don't agree with the arguments presented. (even the arguments that you say are well done)

I think chosing to remove yourself from an argument with someone you fundamentally disagree with is the wiser, kinder and more adult thing to do.

[Cricket]

Oh, I'm not so sure. I think the same could be said of all those who faun over Obama. Unfortunately, I think most folks vote on the basis of their personal beliefs and perceptions about a candidate rather than facts. I'm not convinced many at all (meaning America, not necessarily this board specifically) are voting on the basis of the candidates proven voting record. They listen to sound bites, blurps from books, campaign slogans, and empty promises.

 

What is even more alarming is when people base their opinion on Saturday Night Live sketches. I listened to a lady the other day tell me all about Sarah Palin and then later in the conversation found out she was getting her information from SNL! I mean, vote for whoever you want to, I don't care but please, please vote only after you have studied the issues and please use sources other than late-night television. Oh my.

[EKS]

It does seem to say more about the character of posters themselves than about Obama, doesn't it?

[battlemaiden]

Everyday I come here and there's at least one new thread attacking Obama. Usually for unfounded, often ridiculous charges.

 

Do you who post about it really think he wants to kill babies?

 

Do you who post about it really think he's a terrorist?

 

Do you who post about it really think he's going to endanger homeschooling?

y

Do you who post about it reall think he's going to turn the country into a communist state?

 

Those are just a few of the more recent ones. I'm sick of the fear-mongering.

 

I don't see any threads accusing McCain of being a member of the KKK. Thats just as ridiculous of the accusation that Obama is a terrorist.

 

As for socialism....this country would have to travel so much further to even get near to true socialism. Universal healthcare does not a socialist country make. We can adapt some more socialist leaning policies and be a better country for it, I don't understand the fear of this.

 

There are some that say that no one should get help, they have to rely on themselves. Thats wonderful if you have the means to do so. I would like to say: there ARE people who need help, who have NO CHANCE without it. Period. Are we to be merciful to them (bible anyone?) or are we to tell them to get a job and a house when they have neither. When they are living day to day hour to hour just to stay alive. I'm willing to help them.

 

I don't see any threads accusing McCain of the scandals he's been involved in. Well...I saw one.

 

I don't see any threads questioning McCain's character with his wife situation.

 

I have seen some anti-McCain threads, and even a few more anti-Palin threads. But comparitively speaking, the numbers aren't even close.

 

 

.

 

I think you see as you want to see. If someone criticizes Obama's position on abortion, specifically his free allowance of all forms at any time, you will label that post as someone saying "he wants to kill babies." That isn't what the person said.

 

If we say he doesn't condemn a domestic terrorist with whom he has some minor level relationship, you may think that person is labeling him "a terrorist." If I missed a post that stated that then I roll my eyes at the notion, and so should anyone with common sense.

 

And as for having mercy for the poor, please read this very carefully and try, try, please try to understand. The Bible certainly does speak of caring for the poor or needy but it does NOT say that job lays in the hands of the Government. It says YOU and ME must care for them. It is the position of many, myself included, that caring for the poor and needy through the bloated, ineffecient, impersonal Federal Government is STUPID and a waste of money. It is a foundational difference between what you said above.

 

I have avoided reading most of the political threads because my time is tight. I have read more lately but not responded because my time on the boards is limited to when I'm nursing the baby and those one-handed typed posts don't lend themselves to free expression of thought.

 

I responded to this one because of the tone it sets. You are fed up with the accusations against Obama. Did you happen to notice the poll? The majority of the board supports McCain. You might want to consider how many people have "held their tongue" because they wanted to promote peace on the board.

 

Once again we all see what we want to see. It is almost funny. Both sides talk pass each other. Well some are, and they continue to defensively respond in support of their candidate. Honestly, most of us are sick of it.

 

You certainly have the right to post anything you want. But I felt painted by your broad strokes this morning and my son is holding the baby.....:D

 

Jo

[KJB]

However, I'd like to make two points:

 

1. Obama is looking good in the polls. He'll probably win. Take comfort in that and try to laugh at all of the crazy posts. Politics make people emotional and you can tell by the posts emotion and clear thinking don't mix well.

 

2. OP suggests:

 

"There are some that say that no one should get help, they have to rely on themselves. Thats wonderful if you have the means to do so. I would like to say: there ARE people who need help, who have NO CHANCE without it. Period. Are we to be merciful to them (bible anyone?) or are we to tell them to get a job and a house when they have neither. When they are living day to day hour to hour just to stay alive. I'm willing to help them."

 

The typical conservative response to this is that if people have more of their own money in their own pockets (not paying as much to the government) that they can decide for themselves which charities, churches, or worthy causes they wish to donate their own hard earned money to support. Conservatives want to help people, they just prefer to have more choice both in who they help and what is done with their donation and they don't think it's the governments place to make those decisions for them.

[laylamcb]

What is even more alarming is when people base their opinion on Saturday Night Live sketches. I listened to a lady the other day tell me all about Sarah Palin and then later in the conversation found out she was getting her information from SNL! I mean, vote for whoever you want to, I don't care but please, please vote only after you have studied the issues and please use sources other than late-night television. Oh my.

 

That IS alarming. By "that" I'm speaking of stupidity, of course.

 

Yesterday on NPR, they had a report on the campaigns and the electorate in West Virginia. (Now, keep in mind that I'm a Virginian, so I'm probably inherently biased against West Virginia, even if I don't recognize it in myself. :D But still.) The reporter interviewed a guy who said he figured he'd vote for McCain because he had military experience (OK, reasonable), and besides, he couldn't vote for a black man because "a black" didn't have the ability (mental? physical?!) to do the job of a president.

 

I'm DEAD serious. I listen to something like that, and...I gotta be honest: My own prejudice rears its ugly head. The overeducated, elitist snob in me feels like that guy's ignorance and bigotry should render him ineligible to vote. But I don't make the rules. Thank God.

 

OK. Whew. Thanks for letting me share that; I've had it bottled up inside since I heard it. Feel better now. :001_smile:

[Crissy]

I think you see as you want to see. If someone criticizes Obama's position on abortion, specifically his free allowance of all forms at any time, you will label that post as someone saying "he wants to kill babies." That isn't what the person said.

 

Jo

 

Actually, Jo, people here have specifically said that he kills babies. The threads have been deleted, but those words have been typed in this forum.

[battlemaiden]

Actually, Jo, people here have specifically said that he kills babies. The threads have been deleted, but those words have been typed in this forum.

 

oh for pete's sake!

[LisaNY]

Everyday I come here and there's at least one new thread attacking Obama. Usually for unfounded, often ridiculous charges.

 

Do you who post about it really think he wants to kill babies?

 

Post about what? Concern over the fact that Obama has one of the strongest pro-choice records in history? For the record, I did a search on this board of the term "kill babies", and the only ones who have used that term are Obama supporters. I don't think Obama personally wants to kill babies, but I do think that his views are very much opposed to mine in terms of when life begins, and abortion in general. I just shared my POV, and I never once said that Obama wants to "kill babies".

 

 

Do you who post about it really think he's a terrorist?

 

Post about what? The fact that he was involved at some point in time, to some degree, with a man who is/was a known terrorist? By saying that, does that indicate that I am accusing Obama of *being* a terrorist? I'm going to ask you an honest question, to which I hope you could give some thought. If McCain was involved at some point in time, to some degree, with a man who was a known bomber of abortion clinics, wouldn't that give you pause?

[teamturner]

And as for having mercy for the poor, please read this very carefully and try, try, please try to understand. The Bible certainly does speak of caring for the poor or needy but it does NOT say that job lays in the hands of the Government. It says YOU and ME must care for them. It is the position of many, myself included, that caring for the poor and needy through the bloated, ineffecient, impersonal Federal Government is STUPID and a waste of money. It is a foundational difference between what you said above.

Jo

 

:iagree: Did anyone watch John Stossel's Politically Incorrect Guide to Politics last night on 20/20. My dh and I never watch those kinds of programs but we really enjoyed this report. It was painfully obvious just how ineffective and wasteful our government is in many categories, if not all of them. It was especially evident in the part of the report about New Orleans rebuilding...of lack thereof. All the hurdles and beauracracy people have to go through to rebuild or repair is appalling! The only parts of New Orleans that have been rebuilt are those done by volunteers, i.e. Habitat for Humanity, Brad Pitt, and other celebs. The government has been absolutely worthless in these efforts.

 

I agree that I'm tired of the Obama bashing (I'm voting for McCain). I'm all for discussing the relevant issues but not attacking the man. Obama obviously loves his country and is commited to making it better. I don't agree with his ideas, therefore I'm not voting for him, but to throw these personal attacks is not helpful. No one is going to pursuade anyone to change their vote at this point.

[Mom to Aly]

2. OP suggests:

 

"There are some that say that no one should get help, they have to rely on themselves. Thats wonderful if you have the means to do so. I would like to say: there ARE people who need help, who have NO CHANCE without it. Period. Are we to be merciful to them (bible anyone?) or are we to tell them to get a job and a house when they have neither. When they are living day to day hour to hour just to stay alive. I'm willing to help them."

 

The typical conservative response to this is that if people have more of their own money in their own pockets (not paying as much to the government) that they can decide for themselves which charities, churches, or worthy causes they wish to donate their own hard earned money to support. Conservatives want to help people, they just prefer to have more choice both in who they help and what is done with their donation and they don't think it's the governments place to make those decisions for them.

 

What about the people who wouldn't get help from one of those charities or churches? If everyone picked and chose, a good majority of money would go to churches, and what about the people who don't go to church, and don't fall under one of those organizations? A ton of mentally ill people have no real link to any organization or religious establishment--I speak from experience; my brother is chronically, severely mentally ill, has been for 27 years. He has a whopping $541 a month to live on from the gov't. You would have even that taken away. He is not Christian, he belongs to no organizations, there are many months now, since he has been on and off his meds in the last few months, where he would not be able to make it anywhere to ask for money (or beg, I guess, if he had to go apply for it--I guess that is what people would have to do if they were not entitled to it under the law?). What about someone like him?

 

And how would you propose they get money? If they were turned down by groups, would they have to go beg? I could see that coming! And don't you think being their religion could easily be a condition of the churches, etc. How fair is that to the people who aren't? I'm sure you will say it is, but that is the point--all people are now treated equally under the law. It would not be so if people gave their money themselves, and decided where it went.

 

Our older population is growing my incredible amounts--what if most people suddenly decided they wanted their contributions to go to the elderly? What about people who are disabled? What about abused spouses, orphans, foster children, people on medicaid, etc.? What happens to all of them? And what happens if some people, just suppose, say, gee, I want to keep my money? All these people here complaining about having to give away so much, you can't imagine that happening? Nah, I'm sure not! But, just stretch your imagination a tad--what would happen then? I wonder...

[Mom to Aly]

Post about what? Concern over the fact that Obama has one of the strongest pro-choice records in history? For the record, I did a search on this board of the term "kill babies", and the only ones who have used that term are Obama supporters. I don't think Obama personally wants to kill babies, but I do think that his views are very much opposed to mine in terms of when life begins, and abortion in general. I just shared my POV, and I never once said that Obama wants to "kill babies".

 

The reason you didn't see the term "kill babies" associated with Obama bashers is because most of that has been removed because it was so hideous, as was already stated.

[nmoira]

Post about what? Concern over the fact that Obama has one of the strongest pro-choice records in history? For the record, I did a search on this board of the term "kill babies", and the only ones who have used that term are Obama supporters.

Most of those threads have been deleted. Here's one that wasn't, though a number of posts have been.

[sunshine]

I see so many posts putting both candidates down. Equally. I am sick of seeing posts that act like their candidate is the only logical choice. Both of them have good points and both have points that scare, worry or make someone roll their eyes at them. I would love to see less of the "my candidate is the only way" and a lot more of "I hope mine wins but I will support whoever wins because he will be the President of the United States and I am an American first Republican/Democrat second".

 

There ya go, my 2cents.

[nmoira]

But at least I feel better for venting.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Thanks Parabola. :) You've made my day a bit brighter. :grouphug:

[nmoira]

I see so many posts putting both candidates down. Equally. I am sick of seeing posts that act like their candidate is the only logical choice. Both of them have good points and both have points that scare, worry or make someone roll their eyes at them. I would love to see less of the "my candidate is the only way" and a lot more of "I hope mine wins but I will support whoever wins because he will be the President of the United States and I am an American first Republican/Democrat second".

 

There ya go, my 2cents.

That you are still being permitted to post this is your sig (I did report it in another thread) disturbs me:

 

"McCain freaks me out, but Obama makes me want an exorcist!"

Elizabeth Elensar

 

This speaks volumes about your willingness to maintain a rational and respectful dialog. Please spare me the lecture.

[HRAAB]

However, I'd like to make two points:

 

1. Obama is looking good in the polls. He'll probably win. Take comfort in that and try to laugh at all of the crazy posts. Politics make people emotional and you can tell by the posts emotion and clear thinking don't mix well.

 

2. OP suggests:

 

"There are some that say that no one should get help, they have to rely on themselves. Thats wonderful if you have the means to do so. I would like to say: there ARE people who need help, who have NO CHANCE without it. Period. Are we to be merciful to them (bible anyone?) or are we to tell them to get a job and a house when they have neither. When they are living day to day hour to hour just to stay alive. I'm willing to help them."

 

The typical conservative response to this is that if people have more of their own money in their own pockets (not paying as much to the government) that they can decide for themselves which charities, churches, or worthy causes they wish to donate their own hard earned money to support. Conservatives want to help people, they just prefer to have more choice both in who they help and what is done with their donation and they don't think it's the governments place to make those decisions for them.

 

Ideally, this is what I wish for. A world where people would give irregardless of prejudices; people who would put on blinders to race, religion or lack thereof, sexual orientation, perceived stupidity, or whatever might be on their personal list. I can see people having a difficult time getting help because of prejudices. Sometimes, it's hard to see those that need help. A local family applied for food stamps instead of going to their church's food bank because they were afraid of being looked down on for seeking charity. Pride, prejudice, an imperfect world

 

But being a realist, I don't have a lot of faith in the government to do it right, either. However, I haven't read of people being turned away because of religion, race or sexual orientation. Maybe I'm wrong???

 

I really don't know the answer and doubt we're going to find one perfect solution to it. Although I'm sure there are people who think they have the perfect solution.

 

Janet

[Mx5]

If it would make you feel better, I could start a post on a rumor I heard about how McCain is an adulterer.

 

Oh, wait. Everyone already knows that and it is a proven fact.

 

I know--I could post on rumors of his involvement in a huge 80s financial scandal.

 

Oh, wait. Everyone already knows that and it is a proven fact.

 

Wait, wait, I've got it: I could write a post insinuating that his wife became a drug addict and--get this!--stole money from a charity to pay for her habit.

 

Oh, wait. Everyone already knows that and it is a proven fact.

 

I give up. Smearing McCain with rumors will never work. I guess we'll just have to keep smearing Obama.

 

Voting records are what voters need to look at IMO.

[lynn]

Everyday I come here and there's at least one new thread attacking Obama. Usually for unfounded, often ridiculous charges.

 

Do you who post about it really think he wants to kill babies?

 

Do you who post about it really think he's a terrorist?

 

Do you who post about it really think he's going to endanger homeschooling?

y

Do you who post about it reall think he's going to turn the country into a communist state?

 

Those are just a few of the more recent ones. I'm sick of the fear-mongering.

 

I don't see any threads accusing McCain of being a member of the KKK. Thats just as ridiculous of the accusation that Obama is a terrorist.

 

As for socialism....this country would have to travel so much further to even get near to true socialism. Universal healthcare does not a socialist country make. We can adapt some more socialist leaning policies and be a better country for it, I don't understand the fear of this.

 

There are some that say that no one should get help, they have to rely on themselves. Thats wonderful if you have the means to do so. I would like to say: there ARE people who need help, who have NO CHANCE without it. Period. Are we to be merciful to them (bible anyone?) or are we to tell them to get a job and a house when they have neither. When they are living day to day hour to hour just to stay alive. I'm willing to help them.

 

I hear a lot of things about taxes. They're going to be raised no matter who is elected. This is how we pay for things like roads, and agencies that inspect food, that help keep people safe. Are these things you are no longer willing to pay for? Because somebody has to.

 

I don't see any threads accusing McCain of the scandals he's been involved in. Well...I saw one.

 

I don't see any threads questioning McCain's character with his wife situation.

 

I have seen some anti-McCain threads, and even a few more anti-Palin threads. But comparitively speaking, the numbers aren't even close.

 

Whats makes it even more annoying is that when these anti-Obama people are presented with facts and sources that exonerate him or expose the mistakes in the sources they have quoted, they don't respond to it. They don't consider the possibility that they may have erroneous information. They just stop arguing that point and move on to another. Or they keep arguing the point even when the point has been shown to be wrong.

 

I'm just tired of hearing all the baloney associated with this candidate. Yes he's my horse in this race and that makes it all the more frustrating. I'm just thankful that this board is not a realistic representation of the American people, where Obama currently has a decisive lead.

 

I have little hope that this post will make some people see things from a different perspective. And I'm pretty sure I'll be attacked with vigor. But at least I feel better for venting.

 

Have a nice day.

 

No attacking here. I still would like to know what he has done in his career. It concerns me that he will be on the job training. I believe he will make a great president when he has more experience with more foreign policy experience and understanding of military and war strategy. He has some great ideas I do agree with and some I just do not and can not. McCain has his issues also and Obama's Raines and WRight associations are quite questionable.

[Renee in NC]

Voting records are what voters need to look at IMO.

 

I've actually found that this is not as easy as it seems. There is so much cr*p shoved into every bill, that you can't really tell what someone did or did not vote for. Someone once posted that Obama had voted against veterans benefits. I went and read the actual bill, and it was impossible to tell whether he voted against the benefits or if he voted against the other 200 pages of earmarks!:tongue_smilie:

[Mx5]

I've actually found that this is not as easy as it seems. There is so much cr*p shoved into every bill, that you can't really tell what someone did or did not vote for. Someone once posted that Obama had voted against veterans benefits. I went and read the actual bill, and it was impossible to tell whether he voted against the benefits or if he voted against the other 200 pages of earmarks!:tongue_smilie:

 

Maybe we could start fresh then. :001_smile:

[LisaNY]

The reason you didn't see the term "kill babies" associated with Obama bashers is because most of that has been removed because it was so hideous, as was already stated.

 

I see. That is why they didn't turn up in my search.

[LisaNY]

Most of those threads have been deleted. Here's one that wasn't, though a number of posts have been.

 

I see that now. Just as long as I'm clear on the fact that my disagreement with Obama on abortion does not automatically assume that I'm calling him a baby killer.

[KJB]

And I both hear and quite literally feel your pain. I'm sorry for your brother's situation. It doesn't sound like you/he get a lot of support and you sound pretty angry.

 

In my family's case, we take care of my brother. By "we", I mean my Mom, my siblings, and my extended family. He also has wonderful neighbors who frequently check in on him and a doctor who has a good working relationship with him who for the last ten years has treated him for free and given him samples of drugs when my brother couldn't afford them. His life is far from perfect, but he manages.

 

And, in an ideal world, family groups and community groups would always support each other. Unfortunately, when society begins to expect that the government will be the caretaker, families and communities don't feel the obligation.

 

As far as your laundry list of examples of people in need, believe it or not both Democrats and Conservatives care about people. Both groups want what's best for all people and both groups have ideas how best to achieve that goal. The mechanism to acheive the goal may not be the same, but the desire to live in the best country possible where all people are encouraged to live their best life is shared by both parties. Some of the largest benefactors of charitable organizations in the world are Republican.

 

You don't have a lot of faith in people but apparently you do in government.

 

“When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.†Ben Franklin

 

Good luck to your brother and you. It's a tough place to be the sibling of a mentally ill person.

[ccmom]

There is logic on both sides, not just one. I posted my concern regarding independent homeschooling without attacking anyone and my post got deleted. And now you post that my worries about independent homeschooling is a "ridiculous accusation". There is no logic there, not when I presented a legitimate argument. That I even have these worries does not mean that I am "accusing Obama of ridiculous things." I am sincerely worried and wanted to know if others had the same concerns. Frankly, I don't want to worry and I hope that it will all turn ok. It's too bad that only one point of view is allowed to prevail here while questioning that side is considered "accusing" and inflammatory. I honestly believe the American dream is no longer valued anymore, and open discussions for both sides is no longer tolerated. That's sad.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

The Conservatives should be happy. It was during Bill Clinton's Presidency that a lot of their heroes became popular- like Rush. :tongue_smilie:

 

I've seen elections come and go. I have never seen anything like this. I think race has a lot to do with it. I think a lot of these people who say they are scared really are. Fear and ignorance go hand in hand. I live in the South, and anyone who doesn't think race is going to play a part in this election is sadly mistaken.

 

Parabola, well said. And you are right, this board is certainly no representation of the real world. Most people I know who are McCain supporters want their 13 year old son to know how to put on a condom and want their 15 year old daughter and her girlfriend to be able to go to prom together. Just as most people of the Muslim faith are peaceful, loving, and kind humanitarians, most McCain supporters don't act or think like extremists.

[Parrothead]

Maybe we could start fresh then. :001_smile:

“When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” Ben Franklin

:iagree: I agree with both of those posters

 

It would be wonderful if we could start again, getting rid of all the pork in the laws. Then maybe some people wouldn't feel so taken advantage of having their tax dollars go to help the truly poor.

 

"Teach a man to fish" and all that is what I'm for instead of a hand out. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've got no problem with money going to help those that really truly need help. The PP's brother that needs help, great, wonderful that he is getting assistance. The generational welfare families need to learn to fish.

Edited October 18, 2008 by Parrothead

[Ria]

I don't understand it, and I'm horrified when I see it. I'm a McCain supporter, but this slander of Obama really gets to me.

 

Please know that there really are Republicans who respect Obama.

 

Ria

[ccmom]

I've seen elections come and go. I have never seen anything like this. I think race has a lot to do with it. I think a lot of these people who say they are scared really are. Fear and ignorance go hand in hand. I live in the South, and anyone who doesn't think race is going to play a part in this election is sadly mistaken. Just as most people of the Muslim faith are peaceful, loving, and kind humanitarians, most McCain supporters don't act or think like extremists.

 

So to *question* the government insurance plan is now racist and an indication of being extremist? Apparently not wanting the government to mandate health insurance for all is extreme to you, but it's not fair for you to take it further and lump it into an issue of race. *That* is ignorant.

 

I don't want the government taking over my healthcare. This is not a race issue. I would not belittle you for wanting something different.

 

I guess it's easier to belittle an opposing viewpoint and call the dissenter racist and extremist. Now that's tolerant.

 

I consider myself an Independent and I will vote for the candidate who I believe will most likely uphold the Constitution. I will also vote for the candidate who I believe is more likely to respect individual choices and the American dream. Unfortunately, my choices are not good enough, but they never are. If this view is extreme (apparently it is and I represent the minority), then I accept the label. And it has *nothing* to do with race.

 

I'm done defending myself. Have fun bashing your dissenters. Whatever works for you.