Is Hakim "Story of US" a high school level text,in your view?

[madteaparty]

I didn't think so, but I'm also having a bit of a time finding a decent, get-it-done US History and Government text. I have the AP one, which I love but it is not the right textbook for us this year. I want to get it done, but can't afford to luxuriate in US History this year because of what else we have going on.

Edited November 26, 2016 by madteaparty

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think it would be good enough for high school history.

 

Another option that might work for you is this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/American-Odyssey-Zeitz-Holdren-keller/dp/160153034X/ref=pd_sim_14_5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=QJH3M0PE3GHS54DVKMXS

 

I confess that this year we are using Cartoon Guides for history.  These:  https://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-History-Universe-Volumes-Alexander-ebook/dp/B00NSUUE9G/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1480202135&sr=1-1&keywords=cartoon+history

There is a US version of that one too.  We are on the second one in that series and it's really really good! 

 

I got this for US Government:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Everything-American-Government-Book-Constitution-ebook/dp/B0045Y247E/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1480202207&sr=1-1&keywords=us+government

 

 

[Farrar]

I've taught high school history in public schools.

 

The writing level is lower - the style and contextualization of the information make me feel like it's intended for middle school (which I'm pretty sure is what it actually is intended for, though I know that it was used in 5th grades in some places). However, the level of detail would absolutely satisfy me for a high school level course. I think to make it a really solid, it would be good to add some higher level resources, but I think you could make it work, absolutely.

 

That said, I don't know what's out there anymore for US history and hopefully someone will have a good suggestion. I've heard the new History Odyssey high school US history course is good, for example.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Oh! I just noticed that the Kindle version of that govt book is showing $0! 

 

 

[Kassia]

I've taught high school history in public schools.

 

The writing level is lower - the style and contextualization of the information make me feel like it's intended for middle school (which I'm pretty sure is what it actually is intended for, though I know that it was used in 5th grades in some places). However, the level of detail would absolutely satisfy me for a high school level course. I think to make it a really solid, it would be good to add some higher level resources, but I think you could make it work, absolutely.

 

That said, I don't know what's out there anymore for US history and hopefully someone will have a good suggestion. I've heard the new History Odyssey high school US history course is good, for example.

 

I am planning on using the new History Odyssey next year, but haven't seen any reviews.  I'd like to take advantage of the Pandia Press sale this weekend, but would like to read reviews soon and I have some questions about the course as well.

 

Critical Thinking U.S. History Detective is good, too.  We used the first book last year when my daughter was in 8th grade.  The second book hadn't come out yet, but we would have used it if it was.  I don't think it's enough for high school, but we both liked it a lot.  In fact, I'm trying to figure out a way we could use the second book next year.  

[Guest]

I threw some Great Course lectures in with it and called it a day. We've done the first half and I'm confident she could pass the CLEP if she took it. She gets plenty of upper level texts in her other classes, so I was just needing a get it over with box checker set. Dd enjoys the Hakim books and it isn't a struggle. Box checked. :) Now we can concentrate on her other history classes with more depth. 

[madteaparty]

I want a solid, traditional textbook because he needs to take the Regents here in NY. I will add primary resources stuff like the Tenement Museum in NYC and the FDR library etc and maybe even another trip to DC in January ;) but we normally do that stuff as a matter of course. I just can't get too cute with the textbook. Considering this one which I think a local school uses.https://www.amazon.com/SCHOOL-UNITED-STATES-HISTORY-STUDENT/dp/013330695X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480201998&sr=8-1&keywords=United+States+History+high+school

[Farrar]

I guess that's just it... the text you linked probably is pretty cruddy. And really, most of the non-AP texts I've seen for US history are inferior to the Hakim series in depth and detail (except in that they are shorter, which is useful).

[madteaparty]

I guess that's just it... the text you linked probably is pretty cruddy. And really, most of the non-AP texts I've seen for US history are inferior to the Hakim series in depth and detail (except in that they are shorter, which is useful).

 Maybe I'll stick to the pretty AP one, which I like. But it's a bit of overkill. 

[foxbridgeacademy]

I've taught high school history in public schools.

 

The writing level is lower - the style and contextualization of the information make me feel like it's intended for middle school (which I'm pretty sure is what it actually is intended for, though I know that it was used in 5th grades in some places). However, the level of detail would absolutely satisfy me for a high school level course. I think to make it a really solid, it would be good to add some higher level resources, but I think you could make it work, absolutely.

 

That said, I don't know what's out there anymore for US history and hopefully someone will have a good suggestion. I've heard the new History Odyssey high school US history course is good, for example.

The new History Odyssey is good it's really in depth lots and lots and LOTS of reading.  It was too much for us.  I like Forner or Zinn for US History. American Passages is good too.

[Kassia]

The new History Odyssey is good it's really in depth lots and lots and LOTS of reading.  It was too much for us.  I like Forner or Zinn for US History. American Passages is good too.

 

Do you mind if I PM you about History Odyssey?  I have a few questions.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

I want a solid, traditional textbook because he needs to take the Regents here in NY. I will add primary resources stuff like the Tenement Museum in NYC and the FDR library etc and maybe even another trip to DC in January ;) but we normally do that stuff as a matter of course. I just can't get too cute with the textbook. Considering this one which I think a local school uses.https://www.amazon.com/SCHOOL-UNITED-STATES-HISTORY-STUDENT/dp/013330695X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480201998&sr=8-1&keywords=United+States+History+high+school

 

You can opt to take the Regents, but you don't NEED to take them.

I assume you know that, but just in case!

[EKS]

The Hakim series is not high school level.

 

We enjoyed The American Odyssey from K12, though it doesn't have end of chapter questions.

[Leav97]

We're just starting the new History Odyssey US History.  Our plan is to complete through the end of the civil war, then go through the CLEP prep, and take the first CLEP test.  It's not a quick and done resource.  It can be a little independent.  But, it isn't fast.

[madteaparty]

You can opt to take the Regents, but you don't NEED to take them.

I assume you know that, but just in case!

he needs them to graduate from the high school he will be graduating from Edited November 27, 2016 by madteaparty

[Roadrunner]

What about American Odessey?

https://www.amazon.com/American-Odyssey-Zeitz-Holdren-keller/dp/160153034X/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=9M8K82J56J44REK6785F

 

I have seen it praised here, but I don't own it, so can't vouch for quality.

[madteaparty]

We're just starting the new History Odyssey US History. Our plan is to complete through the end of the civil war, then go through the CLEP prep, and take the first CLEP test. It's not a quick and done resource. It can be a little independent. But, it isn't fast.

So what is the pace, in your experience? Thanks for any thoughts.

[madteaparty]

The new History Odyssey is good it's really in depth lots and lots and LOTS of reading. It was too much for us. I like Forner or Zinn for US History. American Passages is good too.

How much reading, in your experience? I'm looking at the sample pages and wondering whether these are representative?

It also seems to be e-book only, right? Ugh.

[SparklyUnicorn]

he needs them to graduate from the high school he will be graduating from

 

Ok color me confused.  So he homeschools, but graduates from a high school?

 

(I'm always on the look out for options so I'm curious about this one.)

[madteaparty]

Ok color me confused. So he homeschools, but graduates from a high school?

 

(I'm always on the look out for options so I'm curious about this one.)

He will likely go to high school. but actually, I think one of three ways to fulfill the high school graduation requirement is to take the requisite regents. Edited November 27, 2016 by madteaparty

[SparklyUnicorn]

He will likely go to high school. but actually, I think one of three ways to fulfill the high school graduation requirement is to take the requisite regents.

 

It's one of the ways to get an equivalency diploma. 

[SilverMoon]

My kids used it as early as 5th and 6th grade. It's not high school IMO.

 

We used the free Fundafunda schedule, which uses the Paul Johnson book and GC lecture set. You could use just those and get a great coverage, but the other books and movies she schedules were great too.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I believe they also publish the previous years Regent's exams on-line.  You could look at some of the tests to see what sorts of things were asked and if whatever you want to use would satisfy the need. 

[Penelope]

No.

 

I think the tone is also a little off for high school level.

 

But it does offers a lot of detail as Farrar said.

 

Maybe it's enough with resources added. I wouldn't think it would be honors.

[SunshineMom]

We have Hakim and American Odyssey.  I am using Hakim for 9th grade US history for one of my girls who needs shorter reading assignments and American Odyssey for my 8th grader who reads more quickly. I believe both books aren't stand alone resources. Our approach to history this year has been laid back, we are only adding in documentaries that tie into each chapter/section. 

Edited November 27, 2016 by Jewels

[Garga]

Well, drat.  I knew it wasn't high school level, but I was pretending that maybe it was.  I bought the entire 10 book series and never had a chance to use it when my kids were in 5th and 8th.  I was sort of hoping that maaaaybe if I added some Great Courses and some original documents it would work.  

 

Some people at the beginning of the thread said it might...but I don't know.  I love how complete it is (and that I already have it...) and I really wanted to use it. I like the friendly writing style. But I don't want to do wrong by my high schooler. 

 

 

[Omma]

Sonlight curriculum uses it as part of their Core 100 which is most often used for 9th grade high school (although also used by some 8th graders).  We are using it with extensive discussion questions.  It is supplemented with 17 other books (if I remember correctly) to make for a comprehensive, well-rounded year of U.S. History for high school credit.  We use tests from both Oxford and Hewitt to round things out.

 

Brenda

[Leav97]

So what is the pace, in your experience? Thanks for any thoughts.

 

160 lessons with 1-3 hours per lesson.  Some of them have taken longer but that's more my child's reading speed and ability to delay then the actual assignment.  

[Kassia]

160 lessons with 1-3 hours per lesson.  Some of them have taken longer but that's more my child's reading speed and ability to delay then the actual assignment.  

 

I'm interested in using it for American History only.  Maybe adding in some geography, but I don't need the literature since my dd will be taking a separate American Lit class.  Do you think that would cut back on the time?  I'd like to keep it around an hour per lesson - a little more would be okay since it's 160 lessons and not 180.  

[Garga]

Sonlight curriculum uses it as part of their Core 100 which is most often used for 9th grade high school (although also used by some 8th graders).  We are using it with extensive discussion questions.  It is supplemented with 17 other books (if I remember correctly) to make for a comprehensive, well-rounded year of U.S. History for high school credit.  We use tests from both Oxford and Hewitt to round things out.

 

Brenda

 

 

 

This is interesting.  Where do you get the extensive discussion questions?  Are they part of Sonlight? Did you make them up? I know nothing about Sonlight.  Could I get the 17 other books from them?  And the discussion questions?  Or do I need to buy an entire curriculum?  Are the 17 books large or small?  My son is a slooooow and somewhat unenthusiastic reader.  

 

What are the Oxford and Hewitt tests?  I've not heard of those.  

[Garga]

Sonlight curriculum uses it as part of their Core 100 which is most often used for 9th grade high school (although also used by some 8th graders).  We are using it with extensive discussion questions.  It is supplemented with 17 other books (if I remember correctly) to make for a comprehensive, well-rounded year of U.S. History for high school credit.  We use tests from both Oxford and Hewitt to round things out.

 

Brenda

 

 

I think I found what you're talking about :  http://www.sonlight.com/100-00.html

 

That's a lot of money ($800).  But they've listed the books and I could pick and choose them.  I'd imagine this would take entirely too long as it is for my particular student.  

 

Are the discussion questions in the history parent guide that they sell?

[madteaparty]

I'm interested in using it for American History only. Maybe adding in some geography, but I don't need the literature since my dd will be taking a separate American Lit class. Do you think that would cut back on the time? I'd like to keep it around an hour per lesson - a little more would be okay since it's 160 lessons and not 180.

Ha, same here. DS is taking a separate American lit class. Thanks for asking these questions!

[Farrar]

Well, drat.  I knew it wasn't high school level, but I was pretending that maybe it was.  I bought the entire 10 book series and never had a chance to use it when my kids were in 5th and 8th.  I was sort of hoping that maaaaybe if I added some Great Courses and some original documents it would work.  

 

Some people at the beginning of the thread said it might...but I don't know.  I love how complete it is (and that I already have it...) and I really wanted to use it. I like the friendly writing style. But I don't want to do wrong by my high schooler. 

 

I don't think you're doing wrong by a high schooler if you use it. Really. You have to make a distinction between writing style and level and analysis and detail level. The writing level is lower - not crazy lower, but it's not written the way a higher level textbook would be written. The detail and analysis are at about an average high school level, IMHO. And better done than a lot of high school textbooks. I think it would be a stretch to use it for an AP course for sure. But for a regular level course? Especially for 9th or maybe 10th grade? I think it's fine. The place where you might be falling down would be in getting a kid ready for reading textbooks at a higher level. The thing is... a lot of US history texts are just slapdash and poorly done, so I don't think those are getting a kid ready either. If you want something solid, use an AP or college text and bring the level down a bit by using supporting instead of challenging resources. But I really do think it would be fine to use Hakim and add in some higher level readings and more complete primary sources for a high school class.

 

Honestly, when I see what people are using as a spine instead, like Cartoon Guide (which, I'm not slamming the Cartoon Guide, which is a great, useful resource that can totally make a decent spine with the right resources as well) or a poorly done textbook or something along those lines... it feels to me like Hakim is one of the better options if you don't want to use an AP/college level text yet. And it's totally legit to not use one. Not all kids should be taking AP level work in high school, especially not across the board.

[Omma]

Garga,

 

Yes, the discussion questions are in the history guide.  The 17 accompanying books are scheduled in that guide and could be purchased separately.  No way did I pay $800.  If you want just the history, you could purchase the Hakim set at Rainbow Resource for about $100 (instead of $175) or find the set on ebay.  Many of the other books you can find on Amazon.  Then you could just purchase the SL History Guide for around $50 or whatever the going price is for it right now.

 

I am currently reading the Hakim set, along with the other SL books, alongside my dd.  For the most part, I am really enjoying it all.  Don't go by the wrting style of the first or second Hakim book, as she ramps up the reading level as she progresses through the set.

 

The Oxford tests are from Oxford University Press; I use them as quizzes.  The Hewitt tests have been called 'junior high' level, but I still use them as monthly checks on my dd's understanding and recall of what she has studied.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Brenda

Edited November 27, 2016 by Omma

[RootAnn]

I wouldn't say it is high school level from a reading level standpoint, but there is a *lot* of detail there as others have said.

 

You need to decide what your goals are for the class. For some, we have a get'er done approach. For some, we have an exposure goal - absorb what you can from a variety of resources. For others, we have a mastery goal - which, IMO, is impossible for a wide swath of history.

 

I hated history in school, so my goal is for my kids to enjoy learning history and to end up with a lot more knowledge of history than I have. So, the US History texts I chose for dd#1 are readable, focus on people & events as part of a story-line, and also give a couple *very* different perspectives on the same events & time periods. (Think Zinn and Bennett with the Great Courses for a middle perspective. We are also loosely using the Funda Funda syllabus.) We aren't going for college level text or an AP course.

 

That's what would decide for me whether I'd use Hakim's books. Do they meet my goals?

[Kassia]

 

 

I hated history in school, so my goal is for my kids to enjoy learning history and to end up with a lot more knowledge of history than I have. So, the US History texts I chose for dd#1 are readable, focus on people & events as part of a story-line, and also give a couple *very* different perspectives on the same events & time periods. (Think Zinn and Bennett with the Great Courses for a middle perspective. We are also loosely using the Funda Funda syllabus.) We aren't going for college level text or an AP course.

 

 

 

This is where I am now.  I hated history in school.  My daughter doesn't love it, but doesn't hate it either and I want to keep it that way.  I'm really struggling on what to use next year.  This is our second year homeschooling and I have been buying curriculum for each subject (student/teacher guides with the year planned out).

[jjeepa]

We are using the series this year for my 13 yr old dd in 8th grade and really enjoying it.  The detail is pretty remarkable IMO.  We're also supplementing with literature choices from the Sonlight 100 list and from a few other good lists I found for middle school US history.  Also, we're using the tests from Hewitt.  I'm coming up with the discussion questions on my own.

 

Currently, she has 76 books on her reading list for this year.  I might have over done that a bit.   :laugh:  The 76 aren't required...I just wanted to give her options for each time period.  She has options!

 

I think Hakim would work well for at least 9th grade if you increased the reading difficulty of the supplemental reading and added some research and writing projects.   

Edited November 27, 2016 by jjeepa

[StillStanding]

I am using it with my 10th grader and my 8th grader. Both are enjoying the books and learning a ton. My 10th grader has to write an essay for each volume and read a few extra readers. It is a solid credit to me. 

 

She has plenty of textbooks at a higher reading level so I am not concerned at all if the books are "easy" to read. We are not planning for her to take AP or CLEP exams; I just want her to enjoy history and learn.

 

I used Notegrass, which is sold as a high school course  praised by many,  with my oldest and I much prefer Hakim. 

 

I guess it all depends on what your goals are.

 

 

[Momto6inIN]

My DS read K12's concise version of Hakim in middle school and loved it. He learned a ton and remembers most of it because of the engaging writing style. I would say that if you add some good output/writing assignments and discussions it could make a decent standard (not honors or AP level but plenty sufficient) course.

 

If DS hadn't already read Hakim, I would consider using it for his high school USH because history is not his passion. Since he has read it, however, he will likely be using K12's American Odyssey as the text. I haven't read it in depth yet, just skimmed. But we have had good experience with the K12 Human Odyssey series and the K12 concise version of Hakim, and so I have high hopes that it won't be a boring and/or slapdash experience as Farrar mentioned that most history texts are.

 

Edited for typos

Edited November 28, 2016 by Momto5inIN

[Maryam]

Garga,

 

The Oxford tests are from Oxford University Press; I use them as quizzes. The Hewitt tests have been called 'junior high' level, but I still use them as monthly checks on my dd's understanding and recall of what she has studied.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Brenda

 

Where can we purchase the Oxford and Hewitt tests? Is there a link?

[mom2att]

I teach US History to high schoolers at our co-op using the Hakim texts (concise edition). Yes the reading level is lower than high school level, but the text is very engaging. I want my students to get a good overview of history and enjoy reading about it, without getting bogged down in a higher level text. It's a straight high school level history class, not AP or honors, and I'm comfortable with the materials we are using. I used the Sonlight guide to create study guide questions, and the Oxford book to create tests (meaning I used them both as a resource to create my own). I also have a shelf of books that I use for my own reading and add material via lecture to supplement what's in the Hakim texts. We also do some of the activities from the Reading Like a Historian website. I assign two projects per year, plus the regular study guides, tests, and quizzes.

 

Now, obviously that is a lot more work for me. In doing history at home with a student who needed to work independently, the Hakim books with the Sonlight questions and Oxford tests would be plenty. If you want more output, assign a research paper or biography.

 

Oxford tests

Sonlight Instructor's Guide Used (could probably find cheaper somewhere else--I got mine for $20)

Reading Like a Historian

[SparklyUnicorn]

I read it along with my kids, and I learned a lot from it.  There were a lot of topics mentioned that were never taught to me.  And you know US history is the one history covered most often in US schools. 

[Garga]

I teach US History to high schoolers at our co-op using the Hakim texts (concise edition). Yes the reading level is lower than high school level, but the text is very engaging. I want my students to get a good overview of history and enjoy reading about it, without getting bogged down in a higher level text. It's a straight high school level history class, not AP or honors, and I'm comfortable with the materials we are using. I used the Sonlight guide to create study guide questions, and the Oxford book to create tests (meaning I used them both as a resource to create my own). I also have a shelf of books that I use for my own reading and add material via lecture to supplement what's in the Hakim texts. We also do some of the activities from the Reading Like a Historian website. I assign two projects per year, plus the regular study guides, tests, and quizzes.

 

Now, obviously that is a lot more work for me. In doing history at home with a student who needed to work independently, the Hakim books with the Sonlight questions and Oxford tests would be plenty. If you want more output, assign a research paper or biography.

 

Oxford tests

Sonlight Instructor's Guide Used (could probably find cheaper somewhere else--I got mine for $20)

Reading Like a Historian

 

 

I've been using Reading Like a Historian along with our World History studies this year. I like that website.

 

What projects do you assign, if you don't mind sharing?

[mom2att]

I've been using Reading Like a Historian along with our World History studies this year. I like that website.

 

What projects do you assign, if you don't mind sharing?

 

My students do an American Hero project in the fall. They choose an individual from US History from Jamestown through the Civil War to research. They write a paper on that person and prepare a presentation for the class.  In the spring they do another presentation, this time on a decade of the 20th century. They don't have a paper for that one, however. They are fun projects that get the students to dig a little deeper into history. Plus I think research paper experience is always helpful.

[goldberry]

We used it for 9th grade.  I knew it was borderline, but DD is a STEM kid who hates history. She didn't hate Hakim as much as she might have hated others.  We just needed to cover it, and we did.

[Reefgazer]

DD will be starting HO American History this year and I've just spent the past day or so perusing through it.  It is indeed a handful, but it's a top-notch handful, as far as I can tell.  I'm impressed with it, at least what I have seen so far.

The new History Odyssey is good it's really in depth lots and lots and LOTS of reading.  It was too much for us.  I like Forner or Zinn for US History. American Passages is good too.

 

[Kassia]

DD will be starting HO American History this year and I've just spent the past day or so perusing through it.  It is indeed a handful, but it's a top-notch handful, as far as I can tell.  I'm impressed with it, at least what I have seen so far.

 

We just started it (completed three weeks) and like it so far.  

[...................]

yeah, I think so...in some ways it isn't...but in some ways it's far superior to most regular high school textbooks!  I think the big thing would probably to get practice tests for REgents and see if they type of info covered in the test, will be covered in Hakim's series.

[kolamum]

We used it for 9th, & felt it accomplished the job in adequately enough. :)

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Hakim is intended for a late elementary and middle school audience.

 

Here is what Amazon lists in their info:

 

 

• Age Range: 11 - 14 years
• Grade Level: 5 - 9
• Lexile Measure: 820

 

I don't think it would be part of a college bound high school student's program as a Lexile score in the 800s works out to about a fifth grade reading level.  A ninth grader would want to show a more challenging text.