What do you believe should change in Education?

[DawnM]

That's not the case.  Our lower level classes are not always filled with behavior problem kids. Some of those classes are absolute gems to work with - eager to learn - and thankful to do it without all the "smarter" kids showing them up. I enjoy them as much as I enjoy the higher level college bound kids.

 

That said, many lower level kids are behavior problems (overall) because they've learned to despise school.  If too many of them get in the same class, it certainly can be the pits.  It depends upon luck of the draw really.  

 

 

THIS is what I see essentially all the time.  It's sad, because then kids give up knowing that, "I can never do it."  Some will go on to become behavior problems or try other forms of escapism.

 

 

 

I don't know that I agree TBH.  I spent my 10th grade year in an exclusive private school in FL.  We had the best teachers there that I've ever had, yet those teachers were the lowest paid.  We once asked my Bio teacher why he worked there rather than the higher paid public school nearby.  His reason?  "I have freedom here and I don't have all the headaches I'd get from public school."  He didn't want to be told how to do his job and he didn't want to deal with behavior problem kids (those didn't exist in this private school).

 

This was back in the early '80s.

 

When teachers leave the school where I work to do something else (college teaching, other jobs), they tell me the exact same reasons.

 

Keep the chronic behavior problems out of school and let teachers TEACH and you'd both attract and keep better people.

 

Then too, it needs to be easier to weed out the "bad" teachers.  If enough students complain and test scores (appropriate for the level being taught - not grade but academic ability) aren't there, it needs to be easier to tell teachers they NEED to find something else to do with the lives.  Some, literally, are just doing it for the money.  They don't care about the job and it shows.  Some also can't do the job, plain and simple.

 

 

Where do you put the Chronic behavior problems?   Alternative school?  

 

I was quite shocked to find we only have ONE alternative school per district here, even in the large districts.  In LA we had one per high school, at least in the inner city areas.

 

Even here, in NC, we  had over 1000 openings in July.  Teachers are leaving in droves.  Teachers are also ending up at the doctor's offices asking for meds for anxiety or requesting notes to say they are too stressed to do all the extra stuff.  There are big issues.  When people are not vying for the job, you can't be overly picky on who you hire.  Weed out this bad one, and there may not be anyone to replace him with.

 

I joke with people that I believe working in LA Unified was "organized chaos" and working in NC is "chaotic chaos."  But there is a part of me that truly believes it.  It is a giant mess here.  

 

 I can't post too much publicly, and I DO like my job, but, let's just say that statistics don't tell even close to the entire story. 

[creekland]

Where do you put the Chronic behavior problems?   Alternative school?   

 

The last couple of years our school has experimented with pulling them out of class and putting them into a classroom with one dedicated teacher and an aide (always).  They do their work there.  A rotation of other teachers come in on part of their prep - or can prep there if not needed for questions.

 

It's not ideal by any stretch of the imagination, but it gets the kids out of the classroom and they are still required to be learning something, either online or from materials provided from their original teacher.  Some kids even thrive there (by comparison).  They simply aren't cut out for learning in a typical classroom.  Others bide their time until they drop out or graduate.  They're never "stuck" there.  They can return to classes if they agree to follow behavior rules.  Few choose to return.

[Bluegoat]

I have a lot of ideas in common with what others have said.

 

Smaller classes in elementary, and also I think smaller schools to some extent - elementay schools IMO should not have 500 kids which is common in the newer ones here.  In general I think elementary schools need to be in the community they serve, and walkable for the kids. 

 

I'm happy with the provincial funding we have in Canada, it seems to work well for the most part.

 

I also think specialty math teachers from elementary on would be a better model.  I think if you can have subject experts for gym and music, math could too. 

 

Alternately it would be possible to have more stringent requirements for elementary teachers.  This is IMO important anyway - I don't necessarily think the program for training needs to be longer, but it needs to be more competitive to get in and admission needs to focus on talent and calling.  There needs to be a focus on actually teaching well. 

 

Along with this, better pay and a lot more social status for teachers is important.

 

Testing needs to be cut way back, and also the amount of admin work the teachers are doing more generally.

 

A developmentally appropriate starting age and expectations need to be implemented.  Not4 or 5 but 6 or 7.  If that means looking at care for pre-schoolers in a different way than that needs to happen.

 

In older grades, I think they need to go to a model that isn't university prep for some and crap for the rest, but instead a really serious program for kids going into all streams.  Options for real job training for high school years.

 

More significant language training.  They seem to be looking at different ways of doing this here in recent years and that is great, but they are really still focused on an immersion model which is limiting - you can really only focus on one other language that way.

 

They need to cut a lot of crap that seems to be included because someone thought it was a good idea.  A lot of it is Band-Aid solutions for social problems, or politically motivated.  (As an example, my grade 6 daughter has spent a whole unit on setting goals this year.  They are also spending a lot of time on learning about culture as an abstract idea.  Maybe not totally worthless for some kids, but they are spending a lot of time.  OTOH, they have had no history, this year or in the earlier years.  I don't think history is the be all and end all, but as a hs kid it was my daughters favorite subject.  I suspect there are other kids in the same boat, and its valuable learning.)  Teir science work also seems to be mostly busywork  and I think that is really common.

 

I'd remove most technology work from lower elementary and keep it very low-key in upper elementary.

 

The arts - here they seem to focus, even in high school, almost exclusively on doing art, or drama, or music, but little or nothing on learning about them in the same way they might study literature.

 

 

[Guest]

Where do you put the Chronic behavior problems? Alternative schol?

 

.

Here...

These students make the choice each period to attend or not.entering the classroom signifies willing to learn and participate. If they dont think they can do that, they have until end of pasding time to report to a gc, a sw, or a psych. If they enter the classroom and begin disrupting, the teacher opens the door. That is the signal for security to move in. The student chooses whether they go willingly or not. If they roam, security will remove them. They will report to their choice of social worker, psych, or guidance daily until their adult caregiver comes and meets with the Principal and decides what the next step is, since the traditional classroom is not working out for them. Those choices for nonsped include night high school, alternative middle or high school during the day, homebound, ISS, and if they committed a crime on campus, whatever the family court judge recommends. It took two years, but the school did calm and become a place of learning. However, our inner city pop is much fewer as they transferred to other high schools..no one is crying over that as part of their anger was not having the nyc high school experience due to being shipped out to live with a relative in our district. The students who grew up here do not attack classmates and teachers..they skip starting in sixth, then do the summer makeup session. And that is the true problem...full inclusion has dumbed down the offerings to the point that 8 weeks of half days each summer is all that is need for the Regents diploma. A reg ed kid is better off spending his days figuring out his dirt bike and reading articles of interest on the internet than attending the normal session and doing art busywork projects in lieu of actual learning.Their future is farming, mechanic, beauty shop, real estate, merchant, not art therapist at the group home.

So far, ds had 3 friends who stopped attending. All were brilliant, but medical issues with the parents plus disparate impact put them in gen ed. One had a functioning mother, so they decided to grad him early and he is now finishing up his chem eng degree, at a school where the mountain and dirt biking plus snow mobiling is nearby. The other two didnt and dropped out, which made it a little harder to conduct their merchant activities.The gal has the typical abuse story, the guy moved to where he could find work.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[StaceyinLA]

I had a fantastic public school education. I am old and my education predates no child left behind.

I was also an adult and the parent of a first grader when I discovered that my childhood education was very different then what my children were getting.

 

My pie in the sky.

Bring recess back. In elementary school we had two recesses. Morning and after lunch.

Eliminate the amount of testing.

Eliminate teacher's performance being tied to the testing.

Eliminate teaching to the test.

Get rid of homework in the early grades.

Smaller class sizes.

A return to developmental and age appropriate curriculum. There is no reason for preschool to be the new kindergarten and kindergarten to be the new first grade.

A return of trade training in high school. Not everyone is cut out for college and that is okay.

A return of value to a high school education. You used to be able to graduate high school with marketable skills.

Since we have made a bachelors degree the new high school diploma there absolutely should be a public school college option for those who can not afford college.

I could have written this almost verbatim. I think kids are burnt out before completing elementary school due to lack of recesses (or even being able to talk to their classmates in the lunchroom), as well as excessive homework (I don't think there should be any more than 20-30 minutes of homework in elementary for sure).

 

The testing is absurd.

 

I'm also big on the trades in high school, and the office education stuff for girls who might not be college bound, or the nursing assistant programs (and that's a head start for girls who want to go on into nursing as well). My cousin's school did a 2-year program during 11th/12th grades where you studied cosmetology. She graduated and was able to test and be licensed with months. She has worked in that field nearly 30 years now. It's not for everyone, but for a small town teen with few options after high school, it was a great thing, and she has been quite successful.

 

One other thing I would add is being able to remove inadequate teachers from the system. I had a couple in high school that should never have been teaching high school.

[Bluegoat]

As far as the paying more - that can be an issue I think, but most of my teacher friends feel that working conditions are a bigger reason talented teachers don't stay in teaching very long.

[Guest]

As far as the paying more - that can be an issue I think, but most of my teacher friends feel that working conditions are a bigger reason talented teachers don't stay in teaching very long.

My teacher friends say the same. And here in rural NY, the pay is great for upstaters..a teacher couple is the 1%, and since nclb they send their children to private school plus live in the big house with pool, summer in Europe etc. My neighbors who retired 10 years ago make 75k each in retirement, and have excellent health care bennies. My engineer friends who switched are in it for the ability to see their children ( reduced hours), reduced working years, and the pension. The reduced health care cost is a bonus. They did the math..as nonmanagement engineers not in a startup they figured out what they would need to earn to retire after 20-25. Cant make that in a down economy without bonuses while working a ten hour day.

[umsami]

We need to look at best practices around the world.

 

I think we need to seriously consider what Finland did and eliminate private schools.  I benefited from an elite private school, and I say this.  We need to consider a change in how we pay teachers, too.  There are such disparities.

 

We need to look to Germany and it's real vocational program that isn't a "less than", but leads to a real career.

 

At minimum, we need to eliminate wide differences in funding... there should be a nationwide pool that is divided among schools.  No more haves/have nots.  Kentucky brought it's schools up from the bottom to the mid-20s by changing to a state wide model for funding schools. (Of course, being attacked right now.)  That could work on a nation-wide program.

 

Mastery based classes vs. grade level.  More options for arts/music/etc. 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by umsami

[Dmmetler]

1) awareness that teaching is a hard job, that teachers don't generally choose it due to an inability to do anything else, and respect from the community. The lack of respect for teachers leads to a lot of issues, and the assumption that teachers are stupid really rankles. Recognize that teachers may not be teaching in the summer, after school, or on weekends, but they are definitely working more than 8:00-3:00 185 days a year.

 

2) recognition that heterogeneous grouping leads to poor instruction for everyone, and it's not the teachers' fault. When your class spans 7-8 years skillwise, it is impossible to meet everyone's needs. Add several home languages to that mix (across the same sort of skill range), and a few disabiling conditions and a special medical need or two, and if becomes even tougher.

 

3) Recognition that mandates from above make it much harder below. Keep them to a minimum.

 

What I would like to see:

 

1) Flexible grouping by academic need. A child should not be stuck in the lowest group for math just because He/she cannot read yet, and reading and writing are different skills and need to be taught accordingly. All kids need skills that lead to employment, even those who are college and grad school and professional school bound. I am strongly encouraging my DD to do the Texas A&M vet tech program for high school students so that she has job skills. For me, getting a CDA was helpful in being able to get jobs. For another kid, that might be a completely different field. If nothing else, learning how to do a job that is difficult and physical while in high school would lead to increased respect for those who choose to stay in such professions.

 

2) mandate content and results, not methods or ages. That is, rather than have grades, have levels. If it takes some kids 12 years to get through 8 levels of math with excellent retention and the ability to truly use and understand it, that is better than making it to 12th grade math poorly. Conversely, if a kid can make it through 12 levels of math in 6 years thoroughly and well, more power to him! Different kids benefit from different methods of instruction, and sometimes the best teacher is someone who struggled with the subject and had to work very hard and find methods to master it despite difficulties. Sometimes the best teacher is someone who found the subject trivially easy and needed to find extensions and ways to stretch their mind. It all depends on the child. Ideally, there would be multiple options for each level of each subject so that kids could choose/be placed in the best situation for them. Being placed at a correct level needs to be a non-issue, even if it means a one 14 yr old needs arithmetic when another needs calculus.

 

3) Minimum assured funding for all schools, regardless of income, scaled towards needs of the student population. Fundraising, if it exists at all, is on a district/regional level, not a single school one. No suburban schools that have 2 million dollar tracks when in the same town a school doesn't have anything but an uneven, weed filled field for their entire PE program. No schools where every student gets an iPad when in the same district students can't take their math book home because the school only has 40 Algebra 1 texts for 200 kids. If a school needs more special ed, ELL, or remediation classes, that should not take away from the other kids.

 

4) Utilize community resources. That includes vocational schools, apprenticeship programs run by industries, colleges, universities, and so on. Sports, fine and performing arts, and similar programs should be community based, not school based, and include, like the school classes, a range of levels and skill options. Kids should not be excluded from getting to learn a sport or music at a high level by income or census tract.

[Bluegoat]

We need to look at best practices around the world.

 

I think we need to seriously consider what Finland did and eliminate private schools.  I benefited from an elite private school, and I say this.  We need to consider a change in how we pay teachers, too.  There are such disparities.

 

We need to look to Germany and it's real vocational program that isn't a "less than", but leads to a real career.

 

At minimum, we need to eliminate wide differences in funding... there should be a nationwide pool that is divided among schools.  No more haves/have nots.  Kentucky brought it's schools up from the bottom to the mid-20s by changing to a state wide model for funding schools. (Of course, being attacked right now.)  That could work on a nation-wide program.

 

Mastery based classes vs. grade level.  More options for arts/music/etc. 

 

I think Finland does actually have private schools - I seem to recall there are some Orthdox Christian schools - I don't think they are directly state funded though I could be wrong.

[Janeway]

I think heavier discipline, school uniforms, and such are a good idea.

 

I grew up with very little money. My parents earned enough, but they could not get along long enough to take responsibility for their kids. The his, hers, and ours thing went amok. My one sister and I had very little, while my other two siblings had everything. My sister's dad was a doctor, but she is my oldest sister and was born in the mid 60's, so her dad had no legal rights and was not allowed to see her and our mom left him off her birth certificate. ANYWAY..the point is...if school uniforms were used, our lives would have been easier. Our parents would have had to at least get us that. It would be an equalizer for income differences. It was very demoralizing being in school in the 70's and 80's in old, torn, and out of style clothes. Uniforms are not that expensive and makes things, well, uniform. Kids do not sit around judging each other for their newest whatever clothes they had. 

 

And discipline..I attended a rural school when I was young. It was great. And discipline problems were dealt with. Eventually, moved to a city school. In the grade school levels there, kids just did whatever. Also, they were not tracked. In junior high, we were tracked again. By high school, it was a one strike and you are out environment. I am sure for smaller problems, they were not like that. But if you heckled a teacher, you were out. My first exposure to high school in a different state was awful. I had a younger sister in high school and visited there. The teachers could not even teach. The students were not even facing the teachers and talked through classes. It was clear that anything was tolerated. And they cannot kick anyone out. The student has to do something very very severe to be sent out. Our current district spans several cities and has over 50,000 students. They have one very small discipline school for all grades. That is it. Heckling teachers is not even a punishable offense. 

 

And on the tracking...I do not think kids should be tracked before 12 yrs old. HOWEVER, I think it should all be individualized through 6th grade. Kids so not all learn at the same rate all the time. And slower kids should not have to skip stuff and faster kids should not be held back and not allowed to learn anything. Children are not the Borg, plugged in to a collective. They do not learn collectively. I am fed up with supposed "group learning projects."

 

Multiple recesses should be required for the schools to have, as well as things like gardens and other outdoor and sensory rich activities. I would love to see kids have art every day, and music multiple times a week and so on.

 

And finally, I am sickened by the lack of math in the schools and the open ended assignments where they do not really teach the kids, but rather expect them to pull it out of no where. For example, right now, my 1st grader is expected to write entire paragraphs. But they won't tell him what to write about and they say they do not care about spelling or grammar or any sort of mechanics. I think this is destructive to the learning process. And for math, they are still working on single digit addition. This is because they are supposed to write about "why" for the problems, but, have been given no instruction on what an answer should be. It seems nuts to me that a child can be expected in 1st grade, to write paragraphs to answer the very open question of "why" which has only one right answer, but the "teach"ers are not allowed to teach them as to what to say...and they are not learning anything beyond 4+4. 

 

When my 7th grader came home to public school at the end of 4th grade, same school, he could not write a proper sentence or borrow or carry 3 digit addition or subtraction. Nor could he multiply 2 digits by 2 or do long division of 1 digit in to 3 digits, or remainders..etc. 

 

Simply put, they stress the kids out for some sort of fake unnatural requirement, open ended non-teaching, and they are not teaching anything real anymore.

 

[Arcadia]

3) Minimum assured funding for all schools, regardless of income, scaled towards needs of the student population. Fundraising, if it exists at all, is on a district/regional level, not a single school one.

Fundraising is tricky as there are many ways to bypass the rules. Even on a single school level, classrooms are funded in cash and kind by parents. So there is disparity there.

 

For example scholastic book fairs, parents can buy books on their kids' teachers wish list to donate to the classroom. My kids classrooms always have lots of new donated books because we have a few parents who love to donate books.

 

Christmas and teachers appreciation week, the room parent would collect optional donation of $5 from each parent and the sum usually adds up to more than $200 as many give $10 or $20. So the teacher gets a $200 Target gift card twice a year.

 

School supplies, my kids have always been in classes where the public school parents are very generous. Their teacher does not need to worry about white board markers, paper, Kleenex running out because parents will donate when supply run low.

 

Calculators, the graphing calculators that cost $89 on sale is easily affordable by kids in some schools while other schools have kids sharing whatever the school owns.

 

My district was well funded even during the recession and property crash as their budget was $5,600 per child in k-12th. They didn't breakdown the number in the general report but it is broken down in the financial reports. However the state owed many school districts money for state reimbursements of certain expenses. My state had issued IOUs for state income tax refunds so owing school district money isn't unusual.

 

School band trips are fundraised usually by carwash fundraisers. It is hard to justify taking from district coffers since band trips are extracurriculars. Field trips are also fundraised because it is considered optional.

 

Cupertino parents did fundraised in 2010 for the whole district and collected enough to prevent teacher layoffs.

"To offset the damage done by state budget cuts, parents in Cupertino have raised enough money to save 107 teacher's jobs in their school district.

On Friday afternoon, they will announce they reached their $2 million goal that will allow teacher to keep their jobs and will help keep class sizes small." http://abc7news.com/archive/7442043/

[Arcadia]

This is quoted from a potentially bias survey source. 1/5 of the school districts were surveyed. The chart in the link shows 55% of the vacant positions were filled with teachers with substandard credentials. There is likely to be a SEIU union strike which includes teachers on Dec 5.

 

"Three-quarters of California school districts have too few qualified teachers to fill their vacancies, a survey released Wednesday indicates.

...

In response, schools are leaving positions vacant, or filling jobs with teachers with temporary or provisional credentials, hiring substitutes, increasing class sizes or canceling classes. Many districts also are having trouble filling substitute rosters."

http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/30/school-scene-75-of-districts-short-of-teachers/

 

More details are in the report https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/product/ca-teacher-shortage-persistent-problem-brief

"Of districts that report shortages, most districts report not having enough middle and high school teachers—especially in math and science, and nine out of 10 report shortages in special education (see Figures 2 and 3)"

[Carol in Cal.]

 

 

 

Cupertino parents did fundraised in 2010 for the whole district and collected enough to prevent teacher layoffs.

"To offset the damage done by state budget cuts, parents in Cupertino have raised enough money to save 107 teacher's jobs in their school district.

On Friday afternoon, they will announce they reached their $2 million goal that will allow teacher to keep their jobs and will help keep class sizes small." http://abc7news.com/archive/7442043/

Cupertino is a Basic Aid district, though, so it's a very localized funding model, not representative of most of California. 

[Arcadia]

Cupertino is a Basic Aid district, though, so it's a very localized funding model, not representative of most of California.

Cupertino unified school district (K-8th) is state funded. Fremont unified high school district is basic aid.

 

ETA:

I don't know how accurate this source is but it is accurate for my local basic aid K-12th district.

https://edsource.org/local-control-funding-formula-database/basic_aid.html

Edited November 30, 2016 by Arcadia

[kubiac]

Here's my super-radical "plan," because after several years of reading about education, I have no idea what the hell to do about the millions of American children who are failing, so let's get crazy, OK?

 

Education is only mandatory until grade 8. After that, if you don't want to do school anymore, fine. You can work or not work or whatever, but by age 14, no one is going to beg you to come get an education. You need to decide that you care and choose to attend. If you would prefer to work a job or self-educate outside the system or merely hang around the mall, that is your choice.

 

Grades 1-8 are on one campus, likely using existing school plants. 

 

Grades 9-16 are distributed throughout the city, wherever facilities are available, including existing high schools, junior colleges and state universities. Faculty members rework math and science curricula so they extend over multiple years and really develop subject mastery. Vocational and pragmatic studies are widely available and attached to German-style internship/employment programs. Science labs and libraries are community resources. Auditoriums and gymnasiums are available for rent to the public and not sequestered in school grounds. There is no such thing as truancy and security is handled in the same manner as on college campuses. There are no metal detectors and no chain-link fences.

 

All facilities offer three meals a day prepared in a professional kitchen; the 9-16 cafeteria is open seven days a week to the public.

Edited December 1, 2016 by kubiac

[Carrie12345]

 

 

I have two questions:

 

1.  What is a realistic change you would like to see in public education?

 

2.  What is your pie in the sky, probably will never happen, change you would like to see in education?

 

I can't tell what's realistic and what's pie in the sky anymore!

 

I want to quit making everything about getting into college, expecting 13yos to plan their career paths, and pretending standardized testing is meaningful.

 

I am very much in favor of making post-high-school education "free" (at least 2 years,) but with a LOT of requirements on both students and institutions. Students couldn't just go and waste time and money, and schools couldn't just give junk classes and collect government funds.

 

While I'm at it, no whitewashed History, please!

[JulieA97]

I am running out the door so haven't had a chance to read the replies. My son is in Kindergarten at new public magnet STEAM school. We felt it was the right decision at the time, now not so sure. It has been a bad week school wise so this is mainly a rant ;)

-TRUE differentiation. Not just meeting the kids where they are when they are behind but meeting those kids at the top too. They say they evaluate ability but what they do is test them to the standards of that grading period. So I was told ds is meeting expectations. He can count 20 objects. Yes he has been counting past 100 for a couple of years now. Oh-we don't test beyond 20 at this point in the year. He knows these letters and sight words (that he has known since he was 2) but we don't test beyond that.

-More recess and less sitting. I am beginning to see that school is not made for active 5 year old boys. Especially bright, bored boys.

-Return to shorter days for Kindergarten and/or more play based. I went to a full day Kindergarten program waaay back in the early 80s but we had rest time, more recess and much more play. I distinctly remember a play kitchen and reading loft.

-Less focus on tying writing and reading together. Ds can spell that word if you ask him but asking him to write it is just torture. And they won't advance his reading level until his writing is on level with it.

-This is just my kid but drawing a picture every. Single. Day is killing him. Every day they have to draw a picture, label it and write a sentence about what they drew. He LOATHES any type of art. Seriously. So he draws anything as fast as he can so he can be done with it. And then the teacher tells him he can't draw the same thing he has drawn earlier.

-Get rid of all the green card/red card or point system. His school uses Class Dojo which is an app and the teacher awards or takes away points. Everyone in the class sees it and while generally ds gets mostly good points, there are times he has a bad day. And comes home crying because his teacher took away all his points. He is bored (see #1), if he didn't have to go over the same material he already knows again or draw another picture maybe he wouldn't act out

-Get rid of awards in Kindergarten. His school has awards every 9 weeks in each class. Most improved in reading, math, best behaved, etc. I didn't know any of this so when they did them a few weeks ago I was surprised. My kid comes out of school, breaks down and tells me he isn't good enough because he didn't get an award. I talked to his teacher to find out what they were (would have been nice to have a heads up) and then explained to him the catagories and maybe he would get one next time. Then took him for ice cream.

 

More play, less academics in Kindergarten basically. Ds is doing great academically but we are afterschooling because I feel like this entire year is being wasted. If school was play based (like his preschool) then I wouldn't mind. I can handle the academics at home. I want him as an only child to have time with other kids. So he could get lots of play time with his friends at school, play time at home and whatever academics he is ready for at home.

 

I apologize for the rant. This is just my perspecitive as a public school parent this year.

Edited December 1, 2016 by JulieA97

[TravelingChris]

My sort of realistic is what one county near me is doing- offering some free adult ed classes- skills based to help people get employed- technical training, health training, etc.  Also what a group is doing in our largest city which is helping to teach so called soft skills- talking appropriately at work, getting to work on time, etc, etc, because lots of people are being fired for not having these skills.  Also I am very heartened that another local county education department has set up online classes for teen criminals in jails awaiting trials, etc (people can be in jails awaiting trials a lot longer than the maximum sentence you get to jail which is capped at one year since only misdemeanants get sentenced to jail but people can wait in jails for a few years for a trial). Other realistic changes could be more vocational training in high schools.  

 

Pie in the sky is having smaller classrooms with well educated teachers, proper help for special ed including bilingual students who are excluded now, and the money following the kid into whatever school they go to. So then we could have MOntessori schools, classical schools, schools with a special focus like foreign language study or art and music,  I would want all regular students to be able to pass a comprehensive 8th grade level exam. Then students could attend one of a number of institutions which would either specialize in vocational education or in academics for a future college education but even these would be specific in whether they were technical or general schools.  The freedom to choose education is what I saw happening in Belgium in the mid 2000s when I lived there and I thought it was a very good system.

[lauraw4321]

I don't see what is "public" about the government-run schools we have now. If I prefer the public libraries in the surrounding towns to the one in my own, I am free to use those. Ditto for the public parks, the public pools, the parks & rec classes (though I do pay a slightly higher fee than residents), etc. Nobody is barring my access to those.

 

But if I decide that the high schools in surrounding towns are better than the one that my child is zoned for, I am forbidden from enrolling her. This despite that the bulk of the funding for those schools come from the state general fund rather than property taxes (only 14% of the school budget at the "best" high school in the area comes from local taxes).

This isn't true around my neck of the woods. You have to provide proof you live in the relevant city/county to use the library or pool of rec center.

[Seeking Squirrels]

I haven't read the whole thread, yet.

 

I would like to see smaller class sizes. I realize 10-12 is pie in the sky, but maybe 20 max.

 

Grouping by ability by subject. In DD's school and from what I remember in elementary, the school usually had 3 classes of each grade. If all of the 4th grade teachers made up the schedule together, they could all be doing the same thing at the same time, at least for skill subjects. So the kids could be split up into three math groups, one teacher for each. Then they would split up again into three groups for language arts, or even separate classes for writing/spelling/reading. You wouldn't have to put an emphasis on being the advanced or "slow" class. It's just different classes. And even if they know, well, that's part of life. As was mentioned early in the thread, we don't make star athletes slow down to make the non-athletic kids feel better, so why do the academic kids have to slow down to make the non-academic kids feel better? The emphasis should be on everyone being different with different skills, abilities, and weaknesses and that there is no shame in being at a different level, just do the best you can. The pie in the sky half of this would be that you could even stretch across grades and stop having a clear 3rd or 4th or 5th and just have levels of what you need. 

 

Science. My DD's 3rd grade class doesn't do science at all. I know the early grades need to prioritize the 3 R's, but this is the age they get excited about new ideas and science can be a lot of fun. It wouldn't have to be much, just something to expose them to it. Even if they just do a pinterest-style "experiment" once a week. So when they get to high school and end up with chemistry on their schedule they don't get scared, they get excited because they remember fun labs from elementary that their teacher called chemistry. 

 

No testing in the early grades. 5th at the earliest, I think. And even then, no teaching to the test and no funding tied to test results. 

 

No homework in the early grades. Again, about 5th, to prepare for middle school. I also think homework should matter. Most I've seen so far of DD's is just busywork. Maybe this changes in later grades, maybe it doesn't. I don't remember from my own school years. Kids, even into teen years, need time to be kids. No need to fill their home hours with pointless work, make it matter if you're going to require it.

 

Recess and social lunch. Thankfully DD's school does recess and they are allowed to talk during lunch. But I know a lot of schools have done away with one or both of these. 

 

Earlier opportunity to choose classes and less specifics required for graduation. Not everyone needs higher level math or science or even, dare I say it, history and geography. 

[QueenCat]

 

I'm also big on the trades in high school, and the office education stuff for girls who might not be college bound, or the nursing assistant programs (and that's a head start for girls who want to go on into nursing as well). My cousin's school did a 2-year program during 11th/12th grades where you studied cosmetology. She graduated and was able to test and be licensed with months. She has worked in that field nearly 30 years now. It's not for everyone, but for a small town teen with few options after high school, it was a great thing, and she has been quite successful.

 

 

Not understanding why this would be just for girls. Plenty of males would do fine in nursing assistant or nursing programs. Or in office administration.

[SamanthaCarter]

 

Grouping by ability by subject. In DD's school and from what I remember in elementary, the school usually had 3 classes of each grade. If all of the 4th grade teachers made up the schedule together, they could all be doing the same thing at the same time, at least for skill subjects. So the kids could be split up into three math groups, one teacher for each. Then they would split up again into three groups for language arts, or even separate classes for writing/spelling/reading. You wouldn't have to put an emphasis on being the advanced or "slow" class. It's just different classes. And even if they know, well, that's part of life. As was mentioned early in the thread, we don't make star athletes slow down to make the non-athletic kids feel better, so why do the academic kids have to slow down to make the non-academic kids feel better? The emphasis should be on everyone being different with different skills, abilities, and weaknesses and that there is no shame in being at a different level, just do the best you can. The pie in the sky half of this would be that you could even stretch across grades and stop having a clear 3rd or 4th or 5th and just have levels of what you need. 

 

Forgive me, I'm woefully ignorant since I've not had any contact with public schools since I was in third grade. But isn't this how it's done? I remember this being done in 2nd and 3rd grade. I had some sense that the kids in the other classes were doing "harder" or "easier" math than my math class, but there wasn't any shame in it. We had home room which was mostly content subjects I believe, and for skill subjects we split up to our respective LA or math classes, responsibilities divided up between the three home room teachers for that grade. I guess they must not do this anymore because of standardization? 

Edited December 1, 2016 by SamanthaCarter

[Arcadia]

We had home room which was mostly content subjects I believe, and for skill subjects we split up to our respective LA or math classes, responsibilities divided up between the three home room teachers for that grade. I guess they must not do this anymore because of standardization?

Parents complain so even differentiation within class has to be done discreetly by the teacher. My district still maintain an "accelerated" math track starting in 7th grade.

From my region

"Hull Barnes says exposing all students to high-quality math instruction is a social justice issue for SFUSD.

 

District officials say the controversial practice of tracking students — or separating them based on talent and ability — is simply wrong." https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/07/22/san-francisco-middle-schools-no-longer-teaching-algebra-1/

[Seeking Squirrels]

Forgive me, I'm woefully ignorant since I've not had any contact with public schools since I was in third grade. But isn't this how it's done? I remember this being done in 2nd and 3rd grade. I had some sense that the kids in the other classes were doing "harder" or "easier" math than my math class, but there wasn't any shame in it. We had home room which was mostly content subjects I believe, and for skill subjects we split up to our respective LA or math classes, responsibilities divided up between the three home room teachers for that grade. I guess they must not do this anymore because of standardization? 

 

I'm not sure about everywhere else, but not at DD's school. She's doing math we did a year ago. They all stay together and just get several worksheets a day. Same goes for grammar and writing. She's with the same teacher for all skill stuff. They only go to other teachers for music/pe/typing.

 

Spelling her teacher discreetly splits up. They have a color that designates which spelling list they go pick up, and which worksheet they get throughout the week when it's time for spelling. DD is in green which is the highest one in the class, but she doesn't know that. She just knows she started the year in blue (I think the whole class did) and now she's in green. This is better I suppose, and definitely would be if I liked the way spelling was taught in the first place. But I'm not a fan of the "list on monday, test on friday" method.

[SamanthaCarter]

 This is better I suppose, and definitely would be if I liked the way spelling was taught in the first place. But I'm not a fan of the "list on monday, test on friday" method.

 

 

UGH. We had that. I never did learn how to spell, but I am now thanks to AAS and others. There's rules! You can figure it out based on those rules! Who knew! :)

[shawthorne44]

Parents complain so even differentiation within class has to be done discreetly by the teacher. My district still maintain an "accelerated" math track starting in 7th grade.

From my region

"Hull Barnes says exposing all students to high-quality math instruction is a social justice issue for SFUSD.

 

District officials say the controversial practice of tracking students — or separating them based on talent and ability — is simply wrong." https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/07/22/san-francisco-middle-schools-no-longer-teaching-algebra-1/

 

from the article

which is why he and many parents like him were outraged when they learned Algebra 1 will no longer be taught in middle school under Common Core, the state’s new academic standards.

 

 

 

And some people wonder why the general perception is that Common Core is a dumbing down.  

[QueenCat]

Forgive me, I'm woefully ignorant since I've not had any contact with public schools since I was in third grade. But isn't this how it's done? I remember this being done in 2nd and 3rd grade. I had some sense that the kids in the other classes were doing "harder" or "easier" math than my math class, but there wasn't any shame in it. We had home room which was mostly content subjects I believe, and for skill subjects we split up to our respective LA or math classes, responsibilities divided up between the three home room teachers for that grade. I guess they must not do this anymore because of standardization? 

 

That is how it's done in 4th and 5th grade in the various places we've lived, and where we current live, over the past decade. And in the lower grades, there are groups within the class. The teacher does different things with the different groups during what they call rotations. There is whole group learning but then differential learning during rotations. Usually four math groups and four reading groups within the class. Typically, 90 minutes of reading and 90 minutes of math per day (the bulk of the academics in elementary).

[Elizabeth 2]

Due to my weird educational experiences in multiple states, plus my Kids' experiences in multiple states, here is what I would pull out as best practices, realistic or not. My writing needs some work and clarification to being it all together. It flows in my mind, not very well in a dreamy, rough draft.

 

1. Family style learning in the classroom with many opportunities for movement and learning locations other than a desk. I went to an alternative/experimental elementary school grades 1-3. It was two teachers, two joined classrooms, 30 children, 1-6th grade. Two student desks. We worked at group tables, under them, on the floor, at the counter, at the front side of the teachers desk, on the counters in front of the windows turned seats. It was divided into three blocks a day: history/science (world studies) in which all levels learned together through lecture, videos and written resources at many reading levels to complete learning reports, portfolios or even just worksheets. We used textbooks, library books, encyclopedias, but add in educational websites now. Various ages worked together based on personality. It encouraged cooperative behavior. Brothers and sisters worked side by side, or across the room depending on relationships. Half hour recess, rain or shine. Second block was differentiated instruction for math, specific reading and language arts instruction. I entered 1st grade reading. The others did not. I got kicked out of reading instruction with the aide and worked with the second and third graders. It was a bit of organized chaos with independent workers given work while the teacher worked with those less driven. The specific rotation of groups would seem to work as a better option. The 4-6th graders worked in the other classroom. My brothers said it was much quieter and more like a traditional classroom. Lunch. Half hour recess. Half hour read aloud. (I can still here her voice in so many of the books we read.) Specialist block which included music, art, Spanish, or working more on the world studies materials.

 

2. Focus more on world history, science exposure and language instruction in the early years. Keep math instruction to number sense, money, counting, and time until about age 10. Then the majority of children are ready to learn all the multiplication, fractions, decimals, etc. in two or three years rather than 6 or 7. That whole waiting until they're ready works for math too. A study on immigrant children 100 years ago proved this worked better than standard instruction.

 

3. Differentiated language and math according to level, not age. Because being behind or ahead of everyone else in the class sucks for the teacher and the student.

 

4. Grades are levels of competency, not divisions of age.

 

5. Standardized testing once a year at most. With test prep of no more than 20 min a day, for a week or two before the testing period. Just use ITBS or SAT 10. But make one national test. Or Make a 5th grade, an 8th grade, and a high school exit exam. The kids take the exam the are under 1st-5th take the 5th grade one. Anyone 8th and under takes the 8th grade one once they have shown proficiency at the 5th grade level. The growth each year can be easily seen for each child, and it's easier to see ineffective teachers where there is very little improvement across a classroom.

 

7. Improve the school environment such that the bottom of the college students are not in teaching. A study was released recently which showed consistently for the last 50+ years that those with the top scores in nationwide standardized testing went into hard math and sciences. The lowest that still qualified to go to college went into teaching. The art majors scored higher! Especially in logic based situations, thus teachers expected to teach math who are unable/willing/don't get math. This is a huge symptom of the lack of appreciation of teaching/education in society. Gone are the days of "always needing a ditch digger." Skilled laborers need good basic skills to function. Let's make sure they have the people with the best understanding of the skills teaching them.

 

5. Early and frequent screening and diagnosis for learning disabilities, vision, hearing, motor skills or other physical issues which can impede in the learning process.

 

6. Get rid of the property tax funding for schools. Distribute state funding equitably. Instead, require parental involvement, but make the way a parent is involved variable according to situation. A five to ten hour commitment per year that benefits the teacher and classroom. Or an equivalent financial investment. This could be collecting library books, collecting school materials at a local store, or the usual classroom, field trip, or evening performances opportunities. Those who are using the schools contribute. Yup. It's hard for low income parents. But so many don't do anything for their kids on the premise that it's the state/government responsibility. It needs to become a partnership.

 

7. Vocation/career exploration in 10th grade including job shadowing/volunteering and aptitude/personality testing. Then the 11th/12th grade years are spent towards those goals. College? Start dual enrollment where capable, increasing skills in those areas which are not yet college level. With the early focus on world information, the in depth studies in high school should be limited to those career tracks. Vocational instruction could vary from an apprenticeship, on the job training, or in-class career training.

 

8. Required life skills class. Aka "how to adult like a boss." A year long, *guided* experience in what life really holds. Paychecks. Taxes. Checkbooks. Budgeting at various income levels. Credit cards. Mortgages. Retirement planning. Birth control, including abstinence. Voting. Driving instruction. Changing the oil and a flat tire on a car. Grocery shopping. Meal planning. Basic gardening. Basic cleaning skills including laundry. Food safety. Planning a party. How to Schedule an appointment. Sewing a button! How to make a will. What a drunk driving charge will cost. CPR. First aid. How to interview for a job. How to have a conversation with your boss. Include Microsoft office And public speaking skills. Yes, parents should be teaching these things, but many do not have these skills themselves.

 

9. Change early education to start as early as 2, if parents need it, cost sharing on a sliding scale, but really minimal. With a focus on character development, exploration and developmentally appropriate learning activities, not worksheet and test dependent academics. Parents can opt to wait until a later required age, 6 or 7, if their family situation allows for it. But if they are in the early learning classrooms, when child reaches developmental benchmarks, both behaviorally and academically, they can enter a regular classroom early.

 

10. Parents with special needs are given education into the differences that the child has, how it affects them, and how to support them. They learn what may or may not be reasonable, how expectations change, and the physiological and psychological differences their child may experience as a result of their needs.

[Guest]

UGH. We had that. I never did learn how to spell, but I am now thanks to AAS and others. There's rules! You can figure it out based on those rules! Who knew! :)

And some kids get taught the rules and still fail to internalize them. My poor speller is an excellent reader but four years of phonics and spelling/grammar rules still hasn't cured her of instinctively picking the wrong phonogram almost every time :rofl: