Neighbor child in our yard while we are away?

[Ann.without.an.e]

ETA - please don't quote, I will erase this later.  thanks 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by Attolia

[Joules]

Honestly, if you keep you yard as safe as reasonable and you really don't mind, I think I'd let it go.  From what you are saying, I'm not sure her parents would respond if she is hurt no matter where she is.  And, if she is not in your yard who knows where she would be.

[AimeeM]

Oh, that's a hard one. I agree completely with your desire to be this child's safe haven. 

I would talk to the child - kindly and gently - and tell her your concerns. At 9, she's old enough (barring any cognitive issues) to understand the safety concerns regarding her being on your property without an adult. Explain to her just what you told us - that the property is so big that nobody would hear if she was hurt. I would follow this conversation up with, "Any time you see our car at home, and you know we are home, you are welcome to come over!" 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by AimeeM

[Ann.without.an.e]

Honestly, if you keep you yard as safe as reasonable and you really don't mind, I think I'd let it go.  From what you are saying, I'm not sure her parents would respond if she is hurt no matter where she is.  And, if she is not in your yard who knows where she would be.

 

 

This is kind of my feeling.  Our yard is much safer than her little yard because it isn't tended and there is junk everywhere and snakes are bad around here. 

[luuknam]

Honestly, if you keep you yard as safe as reasonable and you really don't mind, I think I'd let it go.  From what you are saying, I'm not sure her parents would respond if she is hurt no matter where she is.  And, if she is not in your yard who knows where she would be.

 

This, except I would give some real thought about my legal liability if she were to get hurt in my yard.

 

Btw, if her mom is practically blind, the mom doesn't have a reason for having lights on in the house, and many adults just aren't very noisy if they don't have kids or friends around.

[Ann.without.an.e]

This, except I would give some real thought about my legal liability if she were to get hurt in my yard.

 

Btw, if her mom is practically blind, the mom doesn't have a reason for having lights on in the house, and many adults just aren't very noisy if they don't have kids or friends around.

 

 

Yes, I have worried a little about the legal liability.  Even if we have asked her not to be here while we are away and she comes anyway?  Could we be held liable.  At that point she's trespassing right?  My main concern is her safety but the legality is in the back of my mind too.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Attolia

[heartlikealion]

I don't know if you know these things about her family because you have spoken to the parents or because it's all word of mouth from the girl. Like the online classes or the fact that the mom can't drive. I think it's time to meet the mom if you haven't. But it's tough to say what to do about the girl being in your yard. Maybe the mom doesn't notice the girl leave the house and is oblivious that she's in your yard when you are not home. The mom may or may not care that much (as in, be concerned) but she probably ought to know that her daughter is playing in your yard as opposed to say, getting the mail or doing whatever she may be telling her mom (or mom is guessing). If the girl were to be gone too long or get hurt, the mom needs to know that she's in your hard. If the mom sent her husband to look for their daughter and your car was not there they might not think to look in your yard for their missing daughter. Just a thought that crossed my mind.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I don't know if you know these things about her family because you have spoken to the parents or because it's all word of mouth from the girl. Like the online classes or the fact that the mom can't drive. I think it's time to meet the mom if you haven't. But it's tough to say what to do about the girl being in your yard. Maybe the mom doesn't notice the girl leave the house and is oblivious that she's in your yard when you are not home. The mom may or may not care that much (as in, be concerned) but she probably ought to know that her daughter is playing in your yard as opposed to say, getting the mail or doing whatever she may be telling her mom (or mom is guessing). If the girl were to be gone too long or get hurt, the mom needs to know that she's in your hard. If the mom sent her husband to look for their daughter and your car was not there they might not think to look in your yard for their missing daughter. Just a thought that crossed my mind.

 

 

I have had a handful of brief conversations with the mom over the years and this is how I know about the blindness, etc.  

When we moved here 9 years ago, she was legally blind, had a hard time seeing, couldn't drive, and her condition is degenerative.  She used to walk up and down the road with the girl some (probably to the school bus?) but now she doesn't and I hardly ever see her.  I have definitely thought about talking to the mom because of thoughts similar to what you have mentioned here.

I know that the mom knows she's here because she FB messaged me once and told me how much the little girl loves being with my family.  That is the only time she has talked to me about it and in general no conversation takes place about her coming or going from my house.  

[luuknam]

Yes, I have worried a little about the legal liability.  Even if we have asked her not to be here while we are away and she comes anyway?  Could we be held liable.  At that point she's trespassing right?  My main concern is her safety but the legality is in the back of my mind too.

 

I don't know, this might vary by your location too. At the very least, I would talk to her parents and tell them that you're not okay with her being in your yard when you're not there.

[heartlikealion]

That might have been a general comment. I don't think that necessarily means the mom is aware the girl could be at your home when you are not home. That is where a lot of the concern for me would be. If my family was on vacation for a week I would hate to think that the parents didn't know their daughter was hanging out at in an isolated yard all week. They may or may not notice your comings/goings so may not be aware when you are not home or even out of town.

[J-rap]

I don't have an answer, but I wanted to commend you for being such a caring person in her life!  I love hearing things like that.

 

We have a playhouse in our yard too, and I'm pretty sure our young neighbor friend uses it when we're gone.  She doesn't when we're home, and our kids are all older.  I assume that if she is in our yard when we're not home and something were to happen, it is still her parents' responsibility legally.  After all, would you really be responsible for anyone in town who wandered onto your private property when you weren't even home and twisted their ankle there?  

 

I guess at the very least, I'd make sure it was safe, but other than that, after telling her not to come, what more can you do?

[Ann.without.an.e]

That might have been a general comment. I don't think that necessarily means the mom is aware the girl could be at your home when you are not home. That is where a lot of the concern for me would be. If my family was on vacation for a week I would hate to think that the parents didn't know their daughter was hanging out at in an isolated yard all week. They may or may not notice your comings/goings so may not be aware when you are not home or even out of town.

 

 

I have thought about this a lot.  If I were the mom, I would want to know.  They wouldn't notice our coming and going.  Our driveway is not in their view unless they are in our yard.  We can't see their front door without practically going into their front yard either.

[Farrar]

I would also mostly let it go. I'd talk to the mom and make sure she's aware and say something like that you're not upset with her and it's not that you mind per se, you just want to make sure she knows to look for her there if there's an issue, that you can't be responsible for her safety when you're not home. This is just me - but I don't think I'd say she can't go there, just to make it clear to the parents that while the yard is basically safe for kids, you can't be responsible. If they let her go over there, they're accepting the risk. Maybe the mom needs your cell phone number so she can just check that you're home. Or maybe the mom is okay with it either way.

[Jyhwkmama]

I don't have an answer, but I wanted to commend you for being such a caring person in her life!  I love hearing things like that.

 

We have a playhouse in our yard too, and I'm pretty sure our young neighbor friend uses it when we're gone.  She doesn't when we're home, and our kids are all older.  I assume that if she is in our yard when we're not home and something were to happen, it is still her parents' responsibility legally.  After all, would you really be responsible for anyone in town who wandered onto your private property when you weren't even home and twisted their ankle there?  

 

I guess at the very least, I'd make sure it was safe, but other than that, after telling her not to come, what more can you do?

 

 

This is not entirely true because of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractive_nuisance_doctrine

[zoobie]

This is not entirely true because of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractive_nuisance_doctrine

And because if you know and take no steps to prevent it, it could be seen as a tacit invitation.

[bolt.]

I'm Canadian, so we don't have quite the issues you do around legal liability for injuries -- so, perhaps that colours my response.

 

I think that your yard is a very safe choice for this girl, whether you are home or not. If she get hurt, that's unfortunate, but it could happen anywhere (public or private) where the child goes. Anytime a child gets hurt alone it can be an emergency. The question is, 'is it worse here than elsewhere?'

 

I think it's probably "not worse" to have her alone at your place than to have her alone all over the place.

 

If she gets hurt in your yard, you will be home sometime (which is better than a park or forest). If she were not home in a reasonable time in her parents' eyes, they would know exactly where to look and call for her (also better than a park or forest).

 

So, I wouldn't do anything about it, except to tell her it's allowed, so she won't continue to lie-and-leave.

[RioSamba]

Thank you for being such a blessing to this little girlâ¤ï¸

 

I would talk to the parents (is their a dad?). "Neighbor, We love having Jane over at our place. Lately I've noticed that she is coming to our back yard when we're not home. I'm a little concerned (and so on and so forth). What do you think?"

 

Maybe you can find a solution that feels good to you without taking the space away, like limiting the areas of the property she can use when alone.

 

The liability issue is a real thing, but probably a small risk.

[MistyMountain]

This is a very common scenario in both neighborhoods I lived in with kids and my friend had a similar situation happening with her neighborhood. There were kids where the parents just did not check in with their kids at all and the kids wandered all day. I have had kids in this situation play in my yard when I was away. I tell them not to when I am not there but they do not listen. I would tell her not to and she will either listen or not but I would not do too much about it and in her case I might not even say anything. I was dealing with some of the kids not taking care of things and destroying stuff.

 

You are a very nice person to allow her into your lives.

Edited November 12, 2016 by MistyMountain

[NorthwestMom]

This is a tangent but..... this situation has a LOT of red flags for me.  

 

This  9 year old girl lives alone with a blind mother (where is dad? Is he also blind?) who is not monitoring her coming and going, not concerned abut where she spends her time and with whom, and now this child is not in school and free to sit in your back yard for hours per day?  Why doesn't she want to be at home with her mother when your family is not home? That doesn't sound like an emotionally healthy parental relationship.

 

I am going to hope she is just naturally thin and not underfed.  :mellow:

 

Why was she pulled out of school? Is mom monitoring her online school progress?

 

From your description, this child has very few people in her life to keep an eye on her. For the record, there is a family in our neighborhood in which both parents are blind. They are heavily connected to the local schools and to the neighbors. We all give support to help their kids get to activities. The kids have close relationships with their parents and seem to enjoy being home as much as kids with parents who can see. 

 

It sounds like this family needs support at the very least. If you make a call, then ideally CPS will add in supports for her parents  so the child can stay in the home and get the care she needs. She is only 9! That is too young to be alone for hours a day and responsible for her own schooling to boot. 

 

I'm glad you are there for her.

[maize]

Maybe have the parents sign a liability waiver?

[alisoncooks]

Just a thought:  if you were to bring your concerns to her parents, do you think the little girl would get in trouble with them for it?

That would probably be my main hesitation -- ie. that she would be punished for something that you said you don't really mind.

[Hilltopmom]

I would make an effort to befriend mom, not just child.

Offer to drive them to homeschool group activities, or just child if mom declines. Less time she'll spend hanging out alone in your yard.

 

Does mom need to be hooked up with more disability supports, center for the blind, help with accessing social services, grocery shopping, etc? Is she depressed by the change in her vision? (Just thinking here, you used to see her out & about, now you don't).

You won't know unless you can foster a closer relationship with her.

[Ann.without.an.e]

This is a tangent but..... this situation has a LOT of red flags for me.  

 

This  9 year old girl lives alone with a blind mother (where is dad? Is he also blind?) who is not monitoring her coming and going, not concerned abut where she spends her time and with whom, and now this child is not in school and free to sit in your back yard for hours per day?  Why doesn't she want to be at home with her mother when your family is not home? That doesn't sound like an emotionally healthy parental relationship.

 

I am going to hope she is just naturally thin and not underfed.  :mellow:

 

Why was she pulled out of school? Is mom monitoring her online school progress?

 

From your description, this child has very few people in her life to keep an eye on her. For the record, there is a family in our neighborhood in which both parents are blind. They are heavily connected to the local schools and to the neighbors. We all give support to help their kids get to activities. The kids have close relationships with their parents and seem to enjoy being home as much as kids with parents who can see. 

 

It sounds like this family needs support at the very least. If you make a call, then ideally CPS will add in supports for her parents  so the child can stay in the home and get the care she needs. She is only 9! That is too young to be alone for hours a day and responsible for her own schooling to boot. 

 

I'm glad you are there for her.

 

 

We are keeping an eye on it.  Mom is there, so she isn't technically alone, right?  I do wonder if mom assumes we are home if girl doesn't come back? I just think she is bored now that she is not in school and she is lonely and her parents aren't overly engaged.  Her dad lives there but he seems MIA most of the time.  I think something has changed in the home and I am hoping that it comes out naturally in conversation with her sometime.  We have lived here for 9 years and rarely saw this little girl until a few months ago.  From our earlier but rare observations, her dad used to be super engaged, very protective.  He is a rough guy but he was fiercely protective of her and now he seems ... missing, physically and emotionally, not engaged at all.  So something has changed?  I have been paying attention to signs of true neglect and abuse.  I don't want to blow that whistle unnecessarily. I think they care for the girl, but they are going through something that has them distracted?  Who knows! 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Attolia

[Ann.without.an.e]

I would make an effort to befriend mom, not just child.

Offer to drive them to homeschool group activities, or just child if mom declines. Less time she'll spend hanging out alone in your yard.

 

Does mom need to be hooked up with more disability supports, center for the blind, help with accessing social services, grocery shopping, etc? Is she depressed by the change in her vision? (Just thinking here, you used to see her out & about, now you don't).

You won't know unless you can foster a closer relationship with her.

 

 

I have been thinking about this.  I actually sent her a message this morning asking if she would like to go to the children's museum together sometime.  I would like to talk to her more and see how she is doing.  They are very distant, to themselves, etc.  I tried years ago when we moved here to befriend them but they didn't seem interested.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Attolia

[Little Nyssa]

My feeling is... it's possible too worry too much about legal liability. Plus you likely have homeowners insurance? I'd let her stay, unless she is destructive.

[Anne in CA]

The very fact that her yard is not well tended but your is and there are snakes around makes me think I'd rather she played in your yard. It seems like mom is unlikely to know if the girl gets a snakebite in her own yard, so isn't it better that she plays where there is less likelihood of such a thing??? Can you tell I am terrified of snakes, lol?
 

[J-rap]

This is not entirely true because of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractive_nuisance_doctrine

 

That's interesting!

 

Although, it does sound like a foreseeable hazard must be present:

 

However, most jurisdictions...now require only that the injury was foreseeable by the landowner.

 

and also this:

 

​The possessor fails to exercise reasonable care to eliminate the danger or otherwise to protect the children.

 

It sounds like the playhouse isn't a hazard in and of itself.  I assume the roof isn't about to cave in or the floor isn't rotting, etc., and that it is maintained and generally considered safe.  I don't think the OP sees the playhouse as a dangerous place or sees a blaring accident waiting to happen.

 

At least, that's how I interpret it.  I could be wrong!