Vent-I hate what reality tv has done to dance

[Moxie]

My 14dd is in a dance competition that is being judged by local celebrities (so, people who know nothing about dance). She is doing a really great, award-winning, tap routine. The costumes the group wears are appropriate to the music.

 

I just saw a video of her competition. They wear booty shorts and halter tops with sequins. About a quarter of the routine is tap, the rest is twerking. But I know this group will win because the crowd was going wild. The girls really are talented and the parts that are tap are pretty good. I hate that their coaches are so interested in winning that they pander to the lowest element.

[fairfarmhand]

I'm sorry.

 

I was wistfully thinking about the Fred Astaire days of dance.  Such talented people. I'm sure they're around now, but they don't get the recognition they deserve because of the gross stuff that's so pervasive.

 

On a side note, I'd really love to learn swing dancing or clogging. That looks like so much fun!

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

That's terrible, and IMO, totally inappropriate for a 14yo dance group.  Actually, shot shorts don't bother me, but twerking?  Ugh.  

 

Big hugs.

[fairfarmhand]

I have to ask, where are the dads?

 

Because my dh would NOT be happy about his teen daughters dancing like that in front of people.

 

Please tell me that the dads and brothers are not cheering this on...because having my husband and teen son watching, much less cheering provocative dancing from underage young ladies would be horrifying for me as a mom and wife. More so when my own daughter is involved.

 

But I am an old stick in the mud...

[ErinE]

My 14dd is in a dance competition that is being judged by local celebrities (so, people who know nothing about dance). She is doing a really great, award-winning, tap routine. The costumes the group wears are appropriate to the music.

 

I just saw a video of her competition. They wear booty shorts and halter tops with sequins. About a quarter of the routine is tap, the rest is twerking. But I know this group will win because the crowd was going wild. The girls really are talented and the parts that are tap are pretty good. I hate that their coaches are so interested in winning that they pander to the lowest element.

 

This was a problem before reality television. Ten years ago, I had to search for studios that didn't cater to this style. Twenty years ago, it was on the rise.

 

But I agree. I strongly dislike this style of dance, find it extremely inappropriate for the age levels, and wish it would go away.

[Danestress]

Honestly I have no experience with dance ( in real life or through television ). When I read your post I thought that you didn't really understand what twerking is, because it seems so unlikely a dance studio would actually do that. Wow. 10 minutes on the Internet really educated me on the subject. I am sort of stunned.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Danestress

[Guest]

My 14dd is in a dance competition that is being judged by local celebrities (so, people who know nothing about dance). She is doing a really great, award-winning, tap routine. The costumes the group wears are appropriate to the music.

 

I just saw a video of her competition. They wear booty shorts and halter tops with sequins. About a quarter of the routine is tap, the rest is twerking. But I know this group will win because the crowd was going wild. The girls really are talented and the parts that are tap are pretty good. I hate that their coaches are so interested in winning that they pander to the lowest element.

 

It's ridiculous. I'm sorry you're dealing with that. We were so put off by the places we had checked locally we had sworn we would never sign up- felt so blessed to finally be referred to a place that uses modest (nothing extreme- only rather what we call appropriate) costumes, doesn't require spray tans or Tammy Faye levels of make up and age appropriate music after seeing the other places around here. I swear some places seem more intent on preparing girls for a life on the pole than anything else. It was extremely shocking. It makes me sad that people accept it as the norm. 

[8circles]

This trend started way before reality TV.

[Guest]

I have to ask, where are the dads?

 

Because my dh would NOT be happy about his teen daughters dancing like that in front of people.

 

Please tell me that the dads and brothers are not cheering this on...because having my husband and teen son watching, much less cheering provocative dancing from underage young ladies would be horrifying for me as a mom and wife. More so when my own daughter is involved.

 

But I am an old stick in the mud...

 

You're not a stick in the mud. You're sane. Dh and I had the exact same issue. 

[justasque]

My 14dd is in a dance competition that is being judged by local celebrities (so, people who know nothing about dance). She is doing a really great, award-winning, tap routine. The costumes the group wears are appropriate to the music.

 

I just saw a video of her competition. They wear booty shorts and halter tops with sequins. About a quarter of the routine is tap, the rest is twerking. But I know this group will win because the crowd was going wild. The girls really are talented and the parts that are tap are pretty good. I hate that their coaches are so interested in winning that they pander to the lowest element.

 

Competitions vary widely.  I would not be happy if our studio chose one where the judges weren't dancers, unless the studio had some other kind of motive I could support. (For example, going with our more modest routines might be good advertising for the studio, for those families who would prefer to avoid the less modest stuff.  Or if it was a free community showcase type thing.)  Some competitions actually take off points for immodest, age-inappropriate routines and over-the-top crowd reaction.  Ultimately, for most families, competitions are a way to get more experience with performance, gain confidence, and have a goal to work towards.  They are also a way to see outside the studio walls, getting a glimpse of what others in the dance world are doing, which includes both the good and the bad.  While it's nice to win, that isn't every studio's ultimate goal.  Know what you want out of competition and be confident in that knowledge.  Be who you are, and be that well.

[Xahm]

One year my husband's National Guard unit had a nice Christmas party and a local dance troop performed. This group of girls were kind to volunteer and clearly proud of their service, as were their moms and dads in attendance, but it was inappropriate to say the least. 13-16 yr olds dancing in a way that made the largely 18-25 yr old males (most of those in attendance) unsure of where to look. Then belly dance music started and they removed more clothing.

I do feel uncomfortable talking abut this because I don't want to be prudish or judgmental, and I don't want it to sound like I blame women for men's thoughts or any of that, but dance is a tricky area. It can be very sensual, which can be great in the right setting, but that was not the right setting.

[TravelingChris]

I thought what you were commenting on was Dancing with the Stars and So You Think You Can Dance and had no idea what was wrong with those programs (dancing wise).   But I guess you mean the kind of reality shows that I never watch (but I have heard about them).  

 

For two years, my youngest dd invited a public schooled friend to come with her to the homeschool prom (not as a date but just because she thought this girl who had been in abusive family and was living with fellow church members because of that, could use a fun experience),  That girl liked the homeschool prom so much more than the one at her school-  there was no twerking at the homeschool dance.  There was popular music but the kids danced normally, not in a sexually suggestive manner, and she really preferred that.  

[Wheres Toto]

I agree that competitions vary quite a bit.  Some become known for the extremely inappropriate moves and costumes, while others are known for sticking to their rules about appropriateness.

 

I will say that in 14 years of my oldest competing, it was rare to find judges that truly appreciated and understood the difficulty level for tap.  They were much more likely to have ballet or jazz experience, with a few exceptions.

[bettyandbob]

This is one of the things I liked about dds ballet studio. Non competition. Complete focus on technique, not style. And appropriate costumes.

[poppy]

I have watch So You Think You Can Dance from Season 1, Episode 1.  I don't think reality tv is to blame.  I think you can trace the issues you are talking about more to the pageant world of Jonbenet Ramsey.  6 year olds wearing heels and bikini bottoms onstage.

[Farrar]

This is one of the things I liked about dds ballet studio. Non competition. Complete focus on technique, not style. And appropriate costumes.

 

Ditto. I love that our studio is quite serious and specifically doesn't want kids performing much. If you want to succeed, spend time on technique.

 

Of course, I've heard that not all competitions are like this and that some can be very demanding in terms of technique, not just crowd-pleasers, and that some kids love it... but I'm just happy not to have to deal.

 

Agreed with others that it's a larger trend that reality TV is capitalizing on and not the other way around.

[poppy]

Dd only watches clips from So You Think You Can Dance. Last season had all kids and the few clips that I saw, they all seemed age-appropriate. I think the OP is referring to Dance Moms, which I have never seen, but heard about. I do like Maddie Zeigler's performances in Sia's videos. 

 

Ahhhhhh yes I haven't seen that show.  The Sia videos are really really good.

[marbel]

This trend started way before reality TV.

 

I agree.  My daughter was in a dance class maybe 10 - 11 years ago.   The recital included classes up to about middle school age.  My daughter's dance and costume were fine, age appropriate.  But the older ones were horrifying.  I remember clearly, though, that most of the moms were happy and excited to see their daughters in their inappropriate clothing and dancing in a very adult fashion.   The dads were horrified and some were angry.  But the moms were all "aren't they so cute!"   

 

We didn't go back again because we could see the future for our kid.  

[tm919]

My daughter is at a dance place that doesn't do competition until the girls are much older and even then not a lot.... but there are apparently only 2 or 3  in the area where we live. It seems like the competition ones are everywhere, and very popular... the classes are huge comparatively. I get the impression the few  non-competition type ones that have survived, and have been around for decades, are struggling now against the general trend. I do wonder if it will eventually swing back toward a more balanced mix.

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by tm919

[pinkmint]

I don't know if things used to be different or if this junior quasi exotic dancer thing affects every dance institution but..

 

My first and only dance experience was with dd doing an inexpensive non commital community center dance class. I had to sadly put my foot down when the teacher wanted the little girls to dance to Missy Elliott's "Lose Control" (you can google lyrics) complete with hip grinding.

[fairfarmhand]

I agree.  My daughter was in a dance class maybe 10 - 11 years ago.   The recital included classes up to about middle school age.  My daughter's dance and costume were fine, age appropriate.  But the older ones were horrifying.  I remember clearly, though, that most of the moms were happy and excited to see their daughters in their inappropriate clothing and dancing in a very adult fashion.   The dads were horrified and some were angry.  But the moms were all "aren't they so cute!"   

 

We didn't go back again because we could see the future for our kid.  

 

That's what I thought. I figured it was moms.

 

So that leads into my next question.

 

What on earth are those women thinking? They think it's CUTE?

[ktgrok]

So with you. Our studio, thankfully, has appropriate costumes and dancing, but it's not the norm. A friend from childhood has her daughter in competitive dance and the photos she posts on Facebook...ugh. I mean, these costumes look like they came out of the "sexy" section of an adult costume catalog, at best. Totally something I'd expect from a strip show, not small children. And her daughter is only what, 1st grade maybe?

[marbel]

One year my husband's National Guard unit had a nice Christmas party and a local dance troop performed. This group of girls were kind to volunteer and clearly proud of their service, as were their moms and dads in attendance, but it was inappropriate to say the least. 13-16 yr olds dancing in a way that made the largely 18-25 yr old males (most of those in attendance) unsure of where to look. Then belly dance music started and they removed more clothing.

I do feel uncomfortable talking abut this because I don't want to be prudish or judgmental, and I don't want it to sound like I blame women for men's thoughts or any of that, but dance is a tricky area. It can be very sensual, which can be great in the right setting, but that was not the right setting.

 

Thinking this is not OK is not being prudish or judgmental.  There is something about undressing onstage that is very provocative.   Shoot, there is something about undressing  that can be provocative in any setting.  

 

Doctors leave the room to let patients get undressed/dressed.  Why don't they just save time and keep talking while the patient strips and puts on the robe?  Because it's uncomfortable for everyone.    It's simply not appropriate.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have mixed feelings about this.  Some people argue it's just part of the art form to dress that way and do certain moves.  Ok.  But then why are the boys not dressing like that or doing those moves?  My younger kid is in a hip hop class.  The girls wear next to nothing.  Basically what looks like a bra and underwear.  Which I think is not big deal for dance.  HOWEVER, the boys wear baggy clothing.  So what on earth is the deal?  I would assume dancing in a bra and underwear might be comfortable and the teacher can critique the details of the dancing better.  But, again, the boys don't wear that stuff.

 

So..yeah totally totally do not know what to think about this.

 

 

 

 

[ErinE]

Honestly I have no experience with dance ( in real life or through television ). When I read your post I thought that you didn't really understand what twerking is, because it seems so unlikely a dance studio would actually do that. Wow. 10 minutes on the Internet really educated me on the subject. I am sort of stunned.

 

A group of women I danced with were learning a dance to teach to young girls. The choreographer did a move then turned and asked, "Moms, is that appropriate?"

 

Mother of a young girl, I said, "No!"

 

The other mom (who didn't have daughter, but had studio dance experience) said, "It's no problem. I've done worse in competition!"

 

The choreographer changed the move.

 

I also struggle with the rise of acrobatics, showing off hyper-extended legs, y-stands, back walkovers, etc. A triple turn with the foot not touching the supporting leg. It's tricks over technique.

[The Governess]

That's what I thought. I figured it was moms.

 

So that leads into my next question.

 

What on earth are those women thinking? They think it's CUTE?

Well, I have personally attended dance competitions where the dads in the audience were whooping and whistling as their 8-10 year olds did a way-too-suggestive dance on stage. So, it's not always just the moms!

[ktgrok]

I'm so glad my dance studio has a strict policy on photos and videos, even in class. I don't have to worry about my daughter's image showing up on other peoples FB feeds. 

 

I should clarify, she only posts her own daughter's photos. But in multiple costumes. Generally looking like bikinis with sequins. 

[kroe1]

My 14dd is in a dance competition that is being judged by local celebrities (so, people who know nothing about dance). She is doing a really great, award-winning, tap routine. The costumes the group wears are appropriate to the music.

 

I just saw a video of her competition. They wear booty shorts and halter tops with sequins. About a quarter of the routine is tap, the rest is twerking. But I know this group will win because the crowd was going wild. The girls really are talented and the parts that are tap are pretty good. I hate that their coaches are so interested in winning that they pander to the lowest element.

I so hear you as I am outstretched on the floor getting ready to separate this box of 20,000 stones so the moms can start gluing 450 stones per costume. I remember when a black leotard and a flowing blue skirt was all that was needed.

[Guest]

I have this issue even with a fair bit of lyrical and modern dance. A ton of it ends up very sexual and I can't tell if it is he teachers pushing it, students pushing it, or a combo of both. I think it goes on a case by case basis because there are studios for ALL dance types, including jazz and belly dancing and hip hop, that don't involve excessive lewdness.

 

I see it a lot though and it's not new, but we don't patronize those studios. We go to a conservative, fairly rigorous ballet school precisely because the instructors have excellent technique and judgment, it's low pressure in terms of body issues, and all the performances at every age they offer (including pointe with the high school girls) have been extremely tasteful and well done. Good choreography can be had without sex, especially with little girls. If older artists want to express themselves that way that's one thing, but it's completely avoidable in the younger ages.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[mamiof5]

:(. How sad. I googled "twerking" since I had no idea what it was.. didn't even bother to watch any videos, from the pictures I knew it's something I am not interested in.

 

Honestly? I'd talk to the dance studio. They have NO business choosing outfits and dances like that, it's a dance contest, not who knows what. That's very frustrating :(

[Guest]

:(. How sad. I googled "twerking" since I had no idea what it was.. didn't even bother to watch any videos, from the pictures I knew it's something I am not interested in.

 

Honestly? I'd talk to the dance studio. They have NO business choosing outfits and dances like that, it's a dance contest, not who knows what. That's very frustrating :(

Not my circus, not my monkeys. Our dance studio picks perfectly appropriate outfits. And these outfits aren't usually sprung on the parents out of the blue.

 

I'm glad my daughter is doing this event just in case someone is interested in actual dance.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Moxie

[fairfarmhand]

Well, I have personally attended dance competitions where the dads in the audience were whooping and whistling as their 8-10 year olds did a way-too-suggestive dance on stage. So, it's not always just the moms!

 

GROSS!

 

 

[mamiof5]

Not my circus, not my monkeys. Our dance studio picks perfectly appropriate outfits. And these outfits aren't usually sprung on the parents out of the blue.

 

I'm glad my daughter is doing this event just in case someone is interested in actual dance.

You didn't seem as happy about it in your first post. What you described would be a no brainer for us, no interest in any of our dds participating in something like that.

 

So, I don't get it...if you like it so much, why the vent?

 

ETA: I was totally confused, thinking op's dance studio had those outfits and moves. Confusion clarified.

Edited October 5, 2016 by mamiof5

[Davysmom]

This was a problem before reality television. Ten years ago, I had to search for studios that didn't cater to this style. Twenty years ago, it was on the

It was not nearly the problem 20 years ago that it is now. Reality TV has been around going on 20 years of more now. Reality TV is not entirely to blame because it is merely a reflection of our society, but it has fueled a rise of this in dance classes.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Davysmom

[slackermom]

So, I don't get it...if you like it so much, why the vent?

When she referred to her "daughter's competition," I believe she meant the competitors from another dance group, not her daughter's own group. I first (mis)read it as the competition her daughter was in, as opposed to those she was up against.

[ktgrok]

You didn't seem as happy about it in your first post. What you described would be a no brainer for us, no interest in any of our dds participating in something like that.

 

So, I don't get it...if you like it so much, why the vent?

 

HER studio has appropriate costumes, the studio they are competing against is the one with the icky music/costumes/dancing. 

[....]

We go to a conservative, fairly rigorous ballet school precisely because the instructors have excellent technique and judgment, it's low pressure in terms of body issues, and all the performances at every age they offer (including pointe with the high school girls) have been extremely tasteful and well done.

 

My 9 year-old goes to a similar school.  The owner is in her 60s (Oh, man, PLEASE don't ever retire, Lady) and very traditional/conservative.  Everything is developmentally appropriate.  There aren't constant dance competitions...there's the Nutcracker and the recital.  We're not bringing her huge wads of cash every ten minutes for competitions, costumes, etc.  She talks to the girls about healthy body image...even told the girls to eat a snack before they come to class.  This lady is priceless.  

 

Ironically, she says her studio has about half the students it had 10-20 years ago.   :confused:   

 

I hope she doesn't retire any time soon, because I'm thinking about putting my son in a class when he's old enough in a couple of years (he already loves to dance).

 

And, OP, I've heard some dance horror stories from other parents.  I hear ya'!   :glare:  

Edited October 5, 2016 by Evanthe

[Guest]

HER studio has appropriate costumes, the studio they are competing against is the one with the icky music/costumes/dancing.

Yes, sorry if I was unclear. The silver lining is that, since this is a large community event (which is why our studio is participating), maybe someone in the crowd will be looking for a studio that teaches real dance.

[Lady Marmalade]

I have watch So You Think You Can Dance from Season 1, Episode 1.  I don't think reality tv is to blame.  I think you can trace the issues you are talking about more to the pageant world of Jonbenet Ramsey.  6 year olds wearing heels and bikini bottoms onstage.

 

This!  (Though, we didn't watch this summer's SYTYCD.  Shame on them for exploiting children for ratings that dropped with their lame stage vs. street season.)

 

It's definitely a parent issue.  We travel hundreds of miles every dance season to compete at top level competitions where the number of entries over a weekend is well over 1000 entries, and it is still rare to see inappropriate dancing and attire.  Every once in a while there is one, and it's usually little ones acting older and sassy, OR it's older girls doing a chair dance from Chicago, the musical.  If either of the kids are with me at the time when those kinds come on, we always have such wonderful conversations about how they feel sorry for those dancers who are obviously talented, but are being forced to dance dirty.  

 

Inappropriate costumes? Eh.  That's such a personal preference.  I don't mind skin. At all.  In fact, I'm designing and making my DD's solo costume and it will absolutely have a bare midriff. I am not a fan of bra-tops that look too much like a bra.  At least fill it with sequins and feathers and gemstones so it doesn't look like someone just forgot to finish dressing.   It is entirely possible to be barely dressed for dance and still be tasteful.  Some of the most poignant pieces I've seen over the years have been nothing more than a plain colored bootie short and crop top.  Or simply a leotard with nothing else.  Now I like those kind of costumes because those are cheap! 

 

Honestly, this is a great time to be a dancer.  I think that the opportunities for dancers to continue to dance as a profession are so much more abundant than they used to be.  Along the way, my kids are absolutely going to have to encounter things that go against their moral compass, and what's important now is to teach them how to navigate those situations in the future to the best of our abilities.  When DS sees things on stage that make him uncomfortable, he averts his eyes.  When a teacher suggested something choreography wise that DS did not want to do, he said as much, and as he's only 12 could get away with saying "My mom won't approve" and the move was changed.  But he spoke up in the first place, which made me incredibly proud.  

 

Our family loves the competitive dance world. I don't have future ballerinas, but I may have future dance teachers, or future cirque de soleil dancers or future background dancers for a movie featuring hip-hop.  Who knows, but I am glad for the opportunities to actually see the reality of what's out there instead of sheltering in a single studio environment only to be shocked at a much later time in life with no grid for how to deal. 

[Bluegoat]

There is a huge divide here, and from what I can see this is common, between competative dance and other kinds.  And it is the competative dance where this becomes a common issue - there isn't one of those studios here where I would feel like I could be always comfortable with the costumes or routines. 

 

I don't know much about the history of competitive dance, but I wonder how much that is a factor.  In some ways I find it an odd idea - I think of dance as an art form more than a sport, but competitive dance seems more like sports entertainment to me.  Which isn't necessarily fair - there are painting competitions, or music festival competitions, but somehow they do not seem to play the same role for students.

[Guest]

This! (Though, we didn't watch this summer's SYTYCD. Shame on them for exploiting children for ratings that dropped with their lame stage vs. street season.)

 

It's definitely a parent issue. We travel hundreds of miles every dance season to compete at top level competitions where the number of entries over a weekend is well over 1000 entries, and it is still rare to see inappropriate dancing and attire. Every once in a while there is one, and it's usually little ones acting older and sassy, OR it's older girls doing a chair dance from Chicago, the musical. If either of the kids are with me at the time when those kinds come on, we always have such wonderful conversations about how they feel sorry for those dancers who are obviously talented, but are being forced to dance dirty.

 

Inappropriate costumes? Eh. That's such a personal preference. I don't mind skin. At all. In fact, I'm designing and making my DD's solo costume and it will absolutely have a bare midriff. I am not a fan of bra-tops that look too much like a bra. At least fill it with sequins and feathers and gemstones so it doesn't look like someone just forgot to finish dressing. It is entirely possible to be barely dressed for dance and still be tasteful. Some of the most poignant pieces I've seen over the years have been nothing more than a plain colored bootie short and crop top. Or simply a leotard with nothing else. Now I like those kind of costumes because those are cheap!

 

Honestly, this is a great time to be a dancer. I think that the opportunities for dancers to continue to dance as a profession are so much more abundant than they used to be. Along the way, my kids are absolutely going to have to encounter things that go against their moral compass, and what's important now is to teach them how to navigate those situations in the future to the best of our abilities. When DS sees things on stage that make him uncomfortable, he averts his eyes. When a teacher suggested something choreography wise that DS did not want to do, he said as much, and as he's only 12 could get away with saying "My mom won't approve" and the move was changed. But he spoke up in the first place, which made me incredibly proud.

 

Our family loves the competitive dance world. I don't have future ballerinas, but I may have future dance teachers, or future cirque de soleil dancers or future background dancers for a movie featuring hip-hop. Who knows, but I am glad for the opportunities to actually see the reality of what's out there instead of sheltering in a single studio environment only to be shocked at a much later time in life with no grid for how to deal.

I'd argue it's the combination of age inappropriate cultural references/choreography and the costuming than the clothes, alone. I've seen the same where someone can have a fairly simple two piece outfit and it isn't distracting or sexualized - but combining too much glitz and skin with shimmying and twerking? No. Just no.

 

I also don't think that precludes many styles of competitive dance later down the line. But what is appropriate for a teenager or adult isn't necessarily right for a seven year old.

[mamiof5]

HER studio has appropriate costumes, the studio they are competing against is the one with the icky music/costumes/dancing.

Thank you so much for the explanation! My brain must be REALLY slow, or I am just plain tired. I read the OP so many times and I kept interpreting it was her dds dance studio, I was very puzzled 😵

[mamiof5]

When she referred to her "daughter's competition," I believe she meant the competitors from another dance group, not her daughter's own group. I first (mis)read it as the competition her daughter was in, as opposed to those she was up against.

Thanks for clarifying! I had totally missed that, and was very confused

[mamiof5]

Not my circus, not my monkeys. Our dance studio picks perfectly appropriate outfits. And these outfits aren't usually sprung on the parents out of the blue.

 

I'm glad my daughter is doing this event just in case someone is interested in actual dance.

I apologize for the confusion. I read your OP several times, and for some reason my brain registered this was your dd's group. I was VERY confused.