s/o depression & suicide - NMU threatens students for discussing suicidal & self-destructive thoughts

[Aura]

Yup.  Northern Michigan University Threatens to Punish Students for Discussing Suicidal Thoughts

 

from the article:

 

 

The email read: “...Engaging [sic] in any discussion of suicidal or self-destructive thoughts or actions with other students interferes with, or can hinder, their pursuit of education and community. It is important that you refrain from discussing these issues with other students and use the appropriate resources listed below. If you involve other students in suicidal or self-destructive thoughts or actions you will face disciplinary action.â€

 

 

:banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:

[mom2scouts]

Someone is crazy and it's not the student with depression! :ohmy:

[Guest]

Wow. Not even sure where to start with that one.

 

Shhhhh. Can you please keep your sad thoughts to yourself? You're hindering our educational goals.

Edited September 23, 2016 by texasmom33

[Laurie]

I agree with the university.

 

When I was a university student, a friend of a friend was having suicidal thoughts.  From my perspective, it was totally unfair to my friend to have to deal with all the late night phone calls, etc. from a person threatening to lie down on a road next to a speed bump (or other methods).  She never followed through with any of her threats, fortunately, but who knows when the talk might have changed to action?  I didn't think it was fair for my friend to be put in this position of dealing with a mentally ill person who was away from home/family.  At the time, I gave my friend the phone number of a crisis center and told her to call and find out where to send her suicidal friend for PROFESSIONAL help. 

I don't care if this sounds mean-spirited.   Mentally ill college students need professional help and shouldn't be allowed to take over other students'  lives with their serious problems.   And they need to go home for the care and support from their families if they have been away at college.  Their roommates shouldn't be put in the position of being caregivers.

 

[gardenmom5]

oh.  my.  word.   :svengo: 

 

 

maybe they think it's contagious.  sheesh.

[Spryte]

That's crazy.

 

If they must make some type of rule about it, then perhaps a rule that students must help direct the person having these thoughts to a crisis hotline or counseling.

[Murphy101]

I agree with the university.

 

When I was a university student, a friend of a friend was having suicidal thoughts. From my perspective, it was totally unfair to my friend to have to deal with all the late night phone calls, etc. from a person threatening to lie down on a road next to a speed bump (or other methods). She never followed through with any of her threats, fortunately, but who knows when the talk might have changed to action? I didn't think it was fair for my friend to be put in this position of dealing with a mentally ill person who was away from home/family. At the time, I gave my friend the phone number of a crisis center and told her to call and find out where to send her suicidal friend for PROFESSIONAL help.

I don't care if this sounds mean-spirited. Mentally ill college students need professional help and shouldn't be allowed to take over other students' lives with their serious problems. And they need to go home for the care and support from their families if they have been away at college. Their roommates shouldn't be put in the position of being caregivers.

Absolutely this and also talk of suicide is used as a manipulation tool by abusers in relationships too. I think what you describe and relationship abuse is what the college is trying to address and I'm very glad they are.

[Pen]

I agree with the university.  When I was in college I had a friend call me with regard to suicidal issues, threaten to kill herself if I told anyone, etc.    It was terrible. It hurt my ability to study, and my health, and, yes, probably also my pursuit of "community" now that I think about it. On top of it, I got yelled at by administrators for not going to them despite the friend's threats and not knowing what to do in the situation. I was a kid. I did the best I could. I was not a professional--and as a young uni student, barely even an adult -- to be handling it.

 

 

[nd293]

I also agree to some extent, for the reasons that Laurie mentioned. I doubt they're talking about an 'I need help' conversation. They're talking about a lack of boundaries that makes it unhealthy for other students who are already under pressure in their own lives. Universities will have a lot of facilities provided for the emotional and physical care of students.

 

I've noticed that they very careful of the way they discuss suicide in the newspapers here. I was told that they don't report train line suicides at all, and that does seem to be the case. Other suicides are usually noted with a "foul play is not suspected" line and such articles will always include a link to a suicide prevention or depression support line. There is an extent to which discussing the detail of suicide or suicidal thoughts can encourage despair in those already struggling. I imagine this is also a major concern for the university.

[TranquilMind]

Wow. Not even sure where to start with that one.

 

Shhhhh. Can you please keep your sad thoughts to yourself? You're hindering our educational goals.

 

Don't you think such thoughts should be elaborated upon with professionals though, not with other students (other than friend conversations, of course)?  I agree that this administrator certainly did not express her idea with diplomacy.   I think this might be what she is getting at though. 

 

I know far too many students who have felt very troubled by the emotional problems of others around them, and it is a heavy weight.  Just recently, I was told by a high school student that it was noticed that about 50% of the arms in the cafeteria that day had scars from cutting.  That's pretty scary.  This is very common today.  Somehow we are failing these teens, and that's before we ever get to the college years. 

 

 

[TranquilMind]

I agree with the university.  When I was in college I had a friend call me with regard to suicidal issues, threaten to kill herself if I told anyone, etc.    It was terrible. It hurt my ability to study, and my health, and, yes, probably also my pursuit of "community" now that I think about it. On top of it, I got yelled at by administrators for not going to them despite the friend's threats and not knowing what to do in the situation. I was a kid. I did the best I could. I was not a professional--and as a young uni student, barely even an adult -- to be handling it.

 

I had not read the thread answers yet, but yes, this.  This is what I recently heard, as well.  A young person is just not equipped to carry this burden for others around them.  Maybe if someone is that troubled, he or she doesn't belong in the high pressure situation of university. 

 

[TechWife]

Northern Michigan University no longer sends that letter to students. 

 

http://www.nmu.edu/mc/current-mental-health-communication

 

My question is - why are they sending any letter at all? Communications between the student and counselor should be confidential. At the most, the counselor should involve the police in order in initiate an involuntary commitment if he/she thinks that the student is a danger to self or others. Why is the Dean of Students involved in what appears to be normal counseling arrangements? 

 

I have always encouraged my son to use the counseling center if he needs to talk to someone. Now I am having second thoughts. 

 

I'm disgusted at the overreach this university demonstrates towards mental health. 

 

ETA: The website noticeably doesn't address whether or not they continue to consider discussing suicide & self-destructive thoughts to be a disciplinary issue or not. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by TechWife

[dirty ethel rackham]

What I see happening is depressed students feeling more hopeless and more judged and having less access to resources. That could actually increase the suicide risk. While I don't discount to concerns about a person threatening suicide and it effect on other students, a better way to deal with it would be proactive actions to educate all students about the resources available and what to do if someone they know needs help ... specifically not just giving the phone number for the hotline, but dialing the phone. Not just telling them to get help, but helping them make the appointment. And involving school officials so that it is handed off to someone who is competent to handle it. And never promising not to tell.

 

 

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[Guest]

I think that college students are ADULTS. And they need to be treated as such. Univserities trying to control speech is completely out of line in my book. Trying to prohibit speech isn't going to help anybody.

[Harriet Vane]

Northern Michigan University no longer sends that letter to students. 

 

http://www.nmu.edu/mc/current-mental-health-communication

 

My question is - why are they sending any letter at all? Communications between the student and counselor should be confidential. At the most, the counselor should involve the police in order in initiate an involuntary commitment if he/she thinks that the student is a danger to self or others. Why is the Dean of Students involved in what appears to be normal counseling arrangements? 

 

I have always encouraged my son to use the counseling center if he needs to talk to someone. Now I am having second thoughts. 

 

I'm disgusted at the overreach this university demonstrates towards mental health. 

 

 

 I, too, am horrified at the approach this school is taking. 

 

And I am terribly saddened at the perception that people who struggle with suicide are a burden to others. It's no different than saying disabled people are a burden to others. The fact is that sometimes people need help. And it's hard and overwhelming for them and for those they reach out to. Doesn't change the fact that they are human beings and worthy of kindness.

 

And of course there are some who are manipulative or selfish. You'll find those people in all settings and all walks of life, not just among the mentally ill.

 

Letters such as the one you linked and the policy the OP linked will drive more people to suicide. They will feel like lepers (even more than they already do) and just try to cope until they can't any more.

[Harriet Vane]

What I see happening is depressed students feeling more hopeless and more judged and having less access to resources. That could actually increase the suicide risk. While I don't discount to concerns about a person threatening suicide and it effect on other students, a better way to deal with it would be proactive actions to educate all students about the resources available and what to do if someone they know needs help ... specifically not just giving the phone number for the hotline, but dialing the phone. Not just telling them to get help, but helping them make the appointment. And involving school officials so that it is handed off to someone who is competent to handle it. And never promising not to tell.

 

 

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:iagree:  :iagree:  :iagree:

[ktgrok]

Um..aside from anything else, if you are going to kill yourself, how is disciplinary action from the university going to be a deterrent??? Is the student supposed to be concerned with their degree while dead?

[goldberry]

What some of you are describing is a boundary issue and should be treated as such, not as a "let's just ignore this and keep your mouth shut".  More resources would also include teaching young ones how to deal with these friends while maintaining their own mental health, a skill they will absolutely need in adulthood.

 

As far as the weight it put on those young people.... is the weight any less to come back to a dorm room with their roommate dead?  Because that is where it ends up when no one talks about these things and it is too stigmatized for the person to seek help.

[Ravin]

IF they want to do something actually productive to help with the risk that peers might be burdened by a suicidal student and not know what to do about it, QPR training as part of freshman orientation (or at least for RA's and other students in leadership positions) might be a good idea.

[Guest]

I think part of what pisses me off about that whole email is the fact that the university system of today is largely to blame (along with the parents who stand by and condone it)  for the insane amount of stress ON high school age students. All of the competition, the volunteer hours, the AP classes, the testing thresholds, the "well roundedness" requirements. These kids kill themselves (figuratively) for four years to get into these competitive universities and then everyone acts surprised when they move off and have trouble adjusting, maintaining any sort of rational school/life balance, and knowing how to cope. And now they can't even talk about it?!?! 

 

ETA: The chickens are coming home to roost due to ridiculous hoop jumping requirements the universities brought on themselves and now they're trying to pussy foot out of it. I'm not sure if they're doing this to avoid liability or what, but whoever came up with that plan should be fired. I hope the writer's kid never finds him/herself needing a friend on a lonely night. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by texasmom33

[zoobie]

I think that college students are ADULTS. And they need to be treated as such. Univserities trying to control speech is completely out of line in my book. Trying to prohibit speech isn't going to help anybody.

Imagine if they banned discussing religion. I mean, students can't possibly be expected to set boundaries. No witnessing! Too much of a burden.

[Guest]

Imagine if they banned discussing religion. I mean, students can't possibly be expected to set boundaries. No witnessing! Too much of a burden.

 

It really does sound like university has been come high school part II  sometimes these days. What you can talk about, where you can talk about it, permits for this and that....I'm surprised they don't put them in uniforms with see through backpacks. What happen to the open exchange of ideas among adults you know? 

[TranquilMind]

I think part of what pisses me off about that whole email is the fact that the university system of today is largely to blame (along with the parents who stand by and condone it)  for the insane amount of stress ON high school age students. All of the competition, the volunteer hours, the AP classes, the testing thresholds, the "well roundedness" requirements. These kids kill themselves (figuratively) for four years to get into these competitive universities and then everyone acts surprised when they move off and have trouble adjusting, maintaining any sort of rational school/life balance, and knowing how to cope. And now they can't even talk about it?!?! 

 

ETA: The chickens are coming home to roost due to ridiculous hoop jumping requirements the universities brought on themselves and now they're trying to pussy foot out of it. I'm not sure if they're doing this to avoid liability or what, but whoever came up with that plan should be fired. I hope the writer's kid never finds him/herself needing a friend on a lonely night. 

 

Sure they can talk about stress.  Who says they can't?  No one is saying not to talk about stress and problems. 

 

It appears that maybe they should talk to professionals when you get to  suicidal thoughts though, don't you think?  How can the other kids help?  All they can do is tell someone.  They aren't qualified to help. 

 

[ktgrok]

Sure they can talk about stress.  Who says they can't?  No one is saying not to talk about stress and problems. 

 

It appears that maybe they should talk to professionals when you get to  suicidal thoughts though, don't you think?  How can the other kids help?  All they can do is tell someone.  They aren't qualified to help. 

 

 

Yes, but if you are suicidal, you probably are past the point of logically thinking through the right choice. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Sure they can talk about stress. Who says they can't? No one is saying not to talk about stress and problems.

 

It appears that maybe they should talk to professionals when you get to suicidal thoughts though, don't you think? How can the other kids help? All they can do is tell someone. They aren't qualified to help.

 

Yes, they should talk yo profesio als. However, someone who is that depressed is likely paralyzed and has difficulty acting in their own bests interests and/or may not be thinking logically. No one is saying that fellow students should be handling these mental health issues, but they can assist someone in getting help from professionals.

 

When you say things like this, it shows that you really do not understand mental illness.

 

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[TranquilMind]

Yes, they should talk yo profesio als. However, someone who is that depressed is likely paralyzed and has difficulty acting in their own bests interests and/or may not be thinking logically. No one is saying that fellow students should be handling these mental health issues, but they can assist someone in getting help from professionals.

 

When you say things like this, it shows that you really do not understand mental illness.

 

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What a confusing response.  I said exactly what you suggested here. 

 

I know enough to refer someone to someone who might be able to help, if I am another student, who has listened for awhile and is at a loss.   I've advised my own kids to do the same.  And yes, it is a big issue now on campus. 

 

That is all the other person can do, after all the conversation hasn't helped. 

 

 

 

 

[Murphy101]

Yes, but if you are suicidal, you probably are past the point of logically thinking through the right choice.

Saying they cannot continually push their problems on this with their roommate or girlfriend or whatever is not the same as also saying they can't access help or that no one is willing to help them or point them to where to get help.

 

I completely agree that there needs to be access to mental health care and access to help seeking it and it should be widely known how to do both on campus.

 

But sadly some people refuse to use those services and will insist on trying to use roommates and such instead. I do think those roommates and such should have some way of protecting themselves and I think it can be done without also writing off the other person's life.

 

It's unreasonable to suggest that a student should be terrified of going to class and leaving their roommate alone. It's unreasonable to suggest a guy or gal should be terrified of breaking up with someone.

This happens and it's too much for any of us to handle on our own, much less some 17-22 year old.

 

The school seems to be saying (in an admittedly crappy bedside manner) that they don't want people doing that on campus. To seek the proper help instead. And that if they won't seek the proper help, then the school might be justified in removing them from the campus - for their own sake and the sake of other students. And I agree with that.

[TranquilMind]

Yes, but if you are suicidal, you probably are past the point of logically thinking through the right choice. 

 

Then someone can tell you to do this, or maybe even call for you, if you can't do it.   Who doesn't know this? 

 

I'm wondering what was actually happening to spawn this letter. 

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by TranquilMind

[Guest]

Sure they can talk about stress.  Who says they can't?  No one is saying not to talk about stress and problems. 

 

It appears that maybe they should talk to professionals when you get to  suicidal thoughts though, don't you think?  How can the other kids help?  All they can do is tell someone.  They aren't qualified to help. 

 

 

The email said this "any discussion of suicidal or self-destructive thoughts or actions". 

 

For one, if I'm paying an institution tens of thousands of dollars, they don't get to tell me what to say. Period. I'm an adult. These kids are adults. I'm not saying these kids shouldn't seek professional help. That's not the point. The point is an email coming out telling grown, voter age, independent adults what they can and can't say on a university campus. Who gets to define self-destructive? Me? You? The dean? What's a self destructive action? 

 

This is just stupid university speak at it's finest. And thought control. It's the mentality of "if we don't talk about it, it doesn't exist." You cannot control, and should not control what grown adults say to their friends a colleagues. If you want to develop a suggested reporting structure, great. But if I want to tell my friends I'm depressed and sometimes think of hurting myself, that is okay. It shouldn't be illegal. It shouldn't risk me being expelled. Talking about feelings is NORMAL. Where those boundaries start and stop is for adults to work out amongst themselves. If they can't, perhaps they shouldn't be leaving the nest. None of what this email pushes is promoting a sane environment for college students. What's next? We shouldn't tell someone if a rape happened because it might traumatize the listener? Excuse me, but give me an f-ing break. 

[ktgrok]

Exactly. If I say "I'm so stressed out, I'm getting drunk as a skunk this weekend" is that me talking about a self destructive action? If I say I'm sick of my organic chem class and am just going to take the F and skip the rest of the semester, is that me talking about a self destructive action? If I say I'm going to binge on cookies and ice cream all weekend because I'm depressed about a breakup, and I talking about a self destructive action?

 

If someone is continually talking about suicide to a friend/roommate, that roommate/friend should contact a professional,and possibly have the suicidal person baker acted. Or at least request a room change, etc. BTDT with someone. I cut off contact. 

[TranquilMind]

The email said this "any discussion of suicidal or self-destructive thoughts or actions". 

 

For one, if I'm paying an institution tens of thousands of dollars, they don't get to tell me what to say. Period. I'm an adult. These kids are adults. I'm not saying these kids shouldn't seek professional help. That's not the point. The point is an email coming out telling grown, voter age, independent adults what they can and can't say on a university campus. Who gets to define self-destructive? Me? You? The dean? What's a self destructive action? 

 

This is just stupid university speak at it's finest. And thought control. It's the mentality of "if we don't talk about it, it doesn't exist." You cannot control, and should not control what grown adults say to their friends a colleagues. If you want to develop a suggested reporting structure, great. But if I want to tell my friends I'm depressed and sometimes think of hurting myself, that is okay. It shouldn't be illegal. It shouldn't risk me being expelled. Talking about feelings is NORMAL. Where those boundaries start and stop is for adults to work out amongst themselves. If they can't, perhaps they shouldn't be leaving the nest. None of what this email pushes is promoting a sane environment for college students. What's next? We shouldn't tell someone if a rape happened because it might traumatize the listener? Excuse me, but give me an f-ing break. 

 

 

I am totally a proponent of free speech.  Unfortunately, universities silence politically-incorrect speech all the time and disinvite speakers if they breach some students' sensibilities.      Universities are probably some of the least free places to speak lately, unfortunately.   So sure, they can tell even you what you can say in certain scenarios. 

 

Telling college age students to direct discussions of anticipating their self-inflicted deaths with provided professionals instead of other students seems much less problematic to me, and indeed, is just common sense, in my world.  It would never be a problem to just mention it to your friends.  How did it get to the point that this student got a letter?  I think that is the important thing here.   DId she say it frequently enough that her friends went to someone?  We don't have the facts.

I already said the administrator did not word this  well and I agree the language is imprecise. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Then someone can tell you to do this, or maybe even call for you, if you can't do it. Who doesn't know this?

 

I'm wondering what was actually happening to spawn this letter.

 

Ummm... recent personal experience. Not suicidal, but at the end of my rope and paralyzed with depression. Lots of "just get help already." ( No, I wasn't laying my problems on them. But some of our family trials were the topic of conversation and I mentioned how much I was struggling. Even though I told them how I had been seeing a therapist, bit it wasn't a good fit and I was afraid of getting stuck with another bad one that would make things worse. I practically had to beg someone to walk me through it rather than just telling me to get help.

 

If you forbid students from even mentioning it, then you further isolate them and stigmatize them and make it even less likely that they will get help. Mental illness is not a character flaw, but a brain disorder. I am not talking about allowing a student from terrorizing another student with threats of self-harm, but helping those in need actually get the help they need.

 

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[8circles]

Ummm... recent personal experience. Not suicidal, but at the end of my rope and paralyzed with depression. Lots of "just get help already." ( No, I wasn't laying my problems on them. But some of our family trials were the topic of conversation and I mentioned how much I was struggling. Even though I told them how I had been seeing a therapist, bit it wasn't a good fit and I was afraid of getting stuck with another bad one that would make things worse. I practically had to beg someone to walk me through it rather than just telling me to get help.

 

If you forbid students from even mentioning it, then you further isolate them and stigmatize them and make it even less likely that they will get help. Mental illness is not a character flaw, but a brain disorder. I am not talking about allowing a student from terrorizing another student with threats of self-harm, but helping those in need actually get the help they need.

 

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{{{hugs}}}

 

It's just more people with bootstraps telling people without bootstraps to pull harder, not understanding that you can't pull on bootstraps that you don't have.  

[ktgrok]

Then someone can tell you to do this, or maybe even call for you, if you can't do it.   Who doesn't know this? 

 

I'm wondering what was actually happening to spawn this letter. 

 

 

But they can't call for you, or give you a number to a hotline, or recommend a counselor they've been to and liked, if you aren't allowed to share that you are struggling in the first place. How can someone tell you to call the suicide prevention line, or call for you, if you are banned from saying that you are suicidal?

[TranquilMind]

But they can't call for you, or give you a number to a hotline, or recommend a counselor they've been to and liked, if you aren't allowed to share that you are struggling in the first place. How can someone tell you to call the suicide prevention line, or call for you, if you are banned from saying that you are suicidal?

 

It doesn't sound like they are "banned from staying it". It sounds like they want you to seek help and not just tell other students.  Unless the other students go to the administration about you going on about it (which I think few would do), how are they even going to know it was said?

 

That's why I said that I would be interested to know what sequence of events made this letter happen at the university.  Maybe they were detailed and I missed it.  I've been interrupted a lot.

 

[Aura]

I am totally a proponent of free speech.  Unfortunately, universities silence politically-incorrect speech all the time and disinvite speakers if they breach some students' sensibilities.      Universities are probably some of the least free places to speak lately, unfortunately.   So sure, they can tell even you what you can say in certain scenarios. 

 

Telling college age students to direct discussions of anticipating their self-inflicted deaths with provided professionals instead of other students seems much less problematic to me, and indeed, is just common sense, in my world.  It would never be a problem to just mention it to your friends.  How did it get to the point that this student got a letter?  I think that is the important thing here.   DId she say it frequently enough that her friends went to someone?  We don't have the facts.

I already said the administrator did not word this  well and I agree the language is imprecise. 

 

This particular student, if I remember correctly, got the letter after seeking help due to issues that stemmed from a rape while attending this same school! 

 

So, IMO, it's not just suicide and mental illness the university wants to shove under a rug, it's rape, too. 

[TranquilMind]

This particular student, if I remember correctly, got the letter after seeking help due to issues that stemmed from a rape while attending this same school! 

 

So, IMO, it's not just suicide and mental illness the university wants to shove under a rug, it's rape, too. 

So it wasn't about her getting help, but a warning for her not to speak of the rape to other students?

Now that's a problem. 

[Guest]

This particular student, if I remember correctly, got the letter after seeking help due to issues that stemmed from a rape while attending this same school!

 

So, IMO, it's not just suicide and mental illness the university wants to shove under a rug, it's rape, too.

I honestly don't know why anyone attending that school would chose to stay at this point. There is zero excuse to condone this type of administrative bullshit.

[Murphy101]

This particular student, if I remember correctly, got the letter after seeking help due to issues that stemmed from a rape while attending this same school! 

 

So, IMO, it's not just suicide and mental illness the university wants to shove under a rug, it's rape, too.

 

  

So it wasn't about her getting help, but a warning for her not to speak of the rape to other students?

 

Now that's a problem.

 

Yes. That's a whole other beast and a far cry from just what the excerpt given in the OP. As usual, context matters greatly.

[Guest]

I don't think some of you know what the word "friend" means.

 

Good god.

 

And acting like its a SNAP to get appropriate mental health care from professionals.

Edited September 24, 2016 by OKBud

[gardenmom5]

Absolutely this and also talk of suicide is used as a manipulation tool by abusers in relationships too. I think what you describe and relationship abuse is what the college is trying to address and I'm very glad they are.

 

this was my sister.  at least from the time she was 15.  very manipulative. she even does it as an adult to see what people will do.  that type, should have a 'standard is calling __ on campus'   and the students are made aware calling is mandatory they're less likely to game the system because it can end up biting them.

 

but there are kids who really do need help - and calling ___ is mandatory, they can get the help they need.  but telling them they can't talk to anyone will just make them keep quiet.

 

then there's the girl whose boyfriend was threatening to kill himself - and she kept telling him to do it.  after he did, she played the broken hearted girlfriend and enjoyed the attention from other people. the text messages on her phone said otherwise.  she's currently on trial.

[gardenmom5]

This particular student, if I remember correctly, got the letter after seeking help due to issues that stemmed from a rape while attending this same school! 

 

So, IMO, it's not just suicide and mental illness the university wants to shove under a rug, it's rape, too. 

universities like to sweep rapes under the rug.  if parents find out - they might not send their angels there, and the school would be out money.  why else do they demand rapes be reported to campus security rather than the police.

 

So it wasn't about her getting help, but a warning for her not to speak of the rape to other students?

Now that's a problem. 

so, are you saying it's wrong for them to tell them not to talk about rape, but it's okay to tell them not to talk about suicidal thoughts?  because that's what it sounds  like from reading through your posts on this thread.

 

universities were *supposed* to be about free exchange of ideas.  there's been less and less of that of late.

[Farrar]

It's the word "any" that concerns me. I hear what people are saying about how talk of suicidal thoughts and serious depression can become a tool in an abusive relationships and how peers aren't the people who are best equipped to deal with serious depression - that professionals are. BUT... saying that "any" talk about this with peers is banned really bugs me. Surely they could have crafted a set of guidelines indicating that people with serious depression need professional help, that peers shouldn't feel obligated to give it, where help is available, and that talk of suicide or depression can become abusive in a friendship and how to seek help.

 

I mean, the policy as it stands (though I get they don't send this letter anymore) doesn't illuminate any of those issues. It's laughable. Presumably it's not preventing anyone from using suicidal talk to threaten or overly worry others anyway whereas a little education about how that can become oppressive in a friendship might.

[swimmermom3]

Saying they cannot continually push their problems on this with their roommate or girlfriend or whatever is not the same as also saying they can't access help or that no one is willing to help them or point them to where to get help.

 

I completely agree that there needs to be access to mental health care and access to help seeking it and it should be widely known how to do both on campus.

 

But sadly some people refuse to use those services and will insist on trying to use roommates and such instead. I do think those roommates and such should have some way of protecting themselves and I think it can be done without also writing off the other person's life.

 

It's unreasonable to suggest that a student should be terrified of going to class and leaving their roommate alone. It's unreasonable to suggest a guy or gal should be terrified of breaking up with someone.

This happens and it's too much for any of us to handle on our own, much less some 17-22 year old.

 

The school seems to be saying (in an admittedly crappy bedside manner) that they don't want people doing that on campus. To seek the proper help instead. And that if they won't seek the proper help, then the school might be justified in removing them from the campus - for their own sake and the sake of other students. And I agree with that.

 

Our family's experience has been that in professional counseling, patients are told not to discuss details with others.  This means that if you cut, you are encouraged to seek the help of your counselor and not talk about how you plan to cut with a fellow cutter.  The same practice is encouraged with patients who have suicidal thoughts. I wonder if some well-meaning administrator conflated a fairly specific practice into something more general. 

 

 

[swimmermom3]

Ummm... recent personal experience. Not suicidal, but at the end of my rope and paralyzed with depression. Lots of "just get help already." ( No, I wasn't laying my problems on them. But some of our family trials were the topic of conversation and I mentioned how much I was struggling. Even though I told them how I had been seeing a therapist, bit it wasn't a good fit and I was afraid of getting stuck with another bad one that would make things worse. I practically had to beg someone to walk me through it rather than just telling me to get help.

 

If you forbid students from even mentioning it, then you further isolate them and stigmatize them and make it even less likely that they will get help. Mental illness is not a character flaw, but a brain disorder. I am not talking about allowing a student from terrorizing another student with threats of self-harm, but helping those in need actually get the help they need.

 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

Oh Ellen, :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: .

 

[Pen]

IF they want to do something actually productive to help with the risk that peers might be burdened by a suicidal student and not know what to do about it, QPR training as part of freshman orientation (or at least for RA's and other students in leadership positions) might be a good idea.

 

 

Hadn't heard of QPR before and had to look it up. I think this or similar other training would be a good idea. Clarity in student handbooks about what to do, resource numbers etc., also since a lot happens in freshman orientation and it may not be remembered at 3AM during finals week when there's a surprise phone call from someone about to slit her wrists or take a bottle of pills.  Possibly it would be useful in a high school health class, when there'd be more time to practice and role play.

 

eta: Also, it would be nice if there were more "Gatekeepers" trained so that perhaps a lot more kids needing help would be reached by someone with experience such as an RA, professor, administrator, or other kids who would notice before things got serious and initiate the QPR approach at a reasonable time and place...rather than someone needing to deal with a wee hour of the morning suicidal phone call.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Pen