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How's that for a light-hearted subject?

 

My friend that died this week will be cremated. I don't recall having any conversations with her about cremation or burial (those talks just don't seem to come up very often) so I am not sure why she chose this.

 

My mom is having a fit because she thinks cremation is wrong. So of course I had to ask the hive. Anyone have any thoughts (or religious references, christian or otherwise) as to why cremation is wrong? I am not sure how I feel about it. :confused:

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My mom was against cremation for religious reasons, and the denomination to which she belongs (and in which I was raised) still discourages it in Western countries.

 

Cremation used to make me uncomfortable, but as I've gotten older I've become uncomfortable with embalming, spending tons of money on a coffin, etc. I'd prefer a natural burial in a simple pine box, but I can appreciate the idea of having ashes spread at sea or in some natural spot that had meaning during my life.

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How could cremation be wrong? What sort of religious reasoning would prohibit cremation since the soul is not a tangible object?

 

My mother, who passed in 1981, preferred burial. My father, who died couple years ago, had given away his burial plot to a family friend because he had decided upon cremation.

 

After giving it more thought, he opted to donate his body to the local university medical school for anatomical education purposes. When the university is finished with the cadaver, it will be cremated at the university's expense.

 

My immediate family also is choosing cadaver donation to the university med school.

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My father was buried, and my mother picked out a really great, one of a kind stone. My mother was cremated and will spread over the ocean of her youth (she wanted to be spread far out, so I'm hoping when my sister gets back to the USA some time next year, she and at least my hubby and son can take a charter boat out and spread the ashes).

 

Both according to their wishes. BTW, in case anyone asks you: cremate me, and I care not where the ashes go.

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I told my family to have me cremated. I am a Christian, and the scripture is clear that when I die my body will return to the dust, so what's the difference whether it happens quickly or slowly.

 

Burial is so expensive too -- I'd much rather my family find something else to spend the money on. Coffins and such can be such a rip-off in my opinion. Then there's the price of the burial plot.

 

Actually, a friend of mine lost her mom, and her mom's wish was thay her body be donated to the medical profession. They come pick up your body and everything. I told my kids I'd be totally fine with that too.

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This actually came up in Sunday School last week. I missed the first half if the discussion. The main thing I remember is that someone who used to live in Spain (?) said that you don't have a choice and everyone is cremated.

 

I don't know how I feel about it. But I thought that was interesting and I'm waiting on my rolls to finish baking, so I thought I'd tell you.

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Okay you guys...here is a true story.

 

My parents have friends; the wife's elderly mother died. Her wish was to be creamated and for her ashes to be sprinkled over some beautiful body of water somewhere in the world. Well, a year went by and her ashes were still sitting in the urn. The friend and her dh went on a river cruise in Europe. One evening as they were cruising somewhere in Germany or France, they just *knew* this was the spot. "Mother" was brought up in the urn and the friend gently and reverently tipped the urn and began to pour the ashes into the river.

 

Just then, a terrific gust of wind blew up. Ashes went everywhere. People on the deck were suddenly covered in white ash. The ship soon docked, and people, with "Mother" still stuck to them, departed for an evening in town.

 

The woman looked at her husband, sighed, and said, "Well, Mother always did want to travel all over."

 

LOL.

 

Ria (who wants to be cremated but not sprinkled on unwitting travelers)

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Organ donation and this for us.

 

 

 

I was behind a woman in line at the DMV who said she wouldn't donate her organs because she would need them in heaven.

 

If my organs are usable, I want them to be donated. I never thought about donating my body for research, but that sounds intriguing.

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This is probably going to sound silly but...I couldn't donate my body to science because I am too modest! It's TRUE. I will donate all my organs, anything they want, but the idea of my naked body lying on a table while a bunch of strangers stare at it makes me feel a little woozy. :blushing: :svengo:

 

As far as cremation vs. burial...I don't know. I've never thought this much about it before. My friend's husband was saying something about giving a little bit of her ashes to different people that were important to her, her family members, friends, etc. Now THAT creeped me out a little. If I am cremated, I think I want all of me in one spot.

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But it used to be that some would do it as a statement of lack of faith in any hereafter. I think that if that interpretation was common, I would be against cremation because it would convey a message that I would not want.

 

Also, I really like to see the body at funerals--for me, that custom provides a lot of closure. And to see it and then know that it's burning right after that really creeps me out. I had an uncle who was cremated, and the thought of it happening while we were sitting there really really bothered me. So if I were cremated, I would want it to be later when no one was around. Or maybe before, and the heck with the viewing. Look at a picture. Maybe a really, really good picture, like from about 25 years before.

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This is probably going to sound silly but...I couldn't donate my body to science because I am too modest! It's TRUE. I will donate all my organs, anything they want, but the idea of my naked body lying on a table while a bunch of strangers stare at it makes me feel a little woozy. :blushing: :svengo:

 

 

 

ETA: I don't think it's silly at all!

 

Well, not that I want to convince anyone one way or another, and this may be more than anyone wants to hear, but if you are used as a cadaver for gross anatomy instruction, you are all covered up except for the area being worked on that day. So, if the day's dissection is of the arm, everything else is covered - both for respect and to keep the body from drying out.

 

Also, if many organs are donated, the body would probably not be used for gross anatomy, but for some other type of research, where only the applicable part would be used.

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ETA: I don't think it's silly at all!

 

Well, not that I want to convince anyone one way or another, and this may be more than anyone wants to hear, but if you are used as a cadaver for gross anatomy instruction, you are all covered up except for the area being worked on that day. So, if the day's dissection is of the arm, everything else is covered - both for respect and to keep the body from drying out.

 

Also, if many organs are donated, the body would probably not be used for gross anatomy, but for some other type of research, where only the applicable part would be used.

 

Very interesting. Do I want to know HOW you know all this? :D And I think it is kind of funny that they call it GROSS anatomy. :tongue_smilie:

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Our family is dealing with this right now. Sil's dh passed away last week. I actually felt a bit angry b/c even though she knew he wanted to be cremated, she was conflicted because her father (my fil) had always taught them the Bible taught against cremation. I saw her really struggling, but she didn't even know where the Bible supposedly said that. (Our family is not LDS. Dh and his siblings were raised Foursquare .) I felt like it was an unfair burden for her to have to deal with during an already difficult time.

 

Honestly? Since it seems to be a generational thing, I think it was something purported by funeral home directors in the early and mid 20th Century to drum up more business for expensive caskets, as more people were opting for cremation.

 

I went with sil to the funeral home. I saw the over-the-top caskets you can buy. I about flipped at the panel you can buy that goes inside the top lid with a cheesy nature picture on it. $155! Sil did choose cremation for her dh, has said she doesn't want it hersefl.

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As far as cremation vs. burial...I don't know. I've never thought this much about it before. My friend's husband was saying something about giving a little bit of her ashes to different people that were important to her, her family members, friends, etc. Now THAT creeped me out a little. If I am cremated, I think I want all of me in one spot.

 

 

This will creep you out, then. My Mom has 1/3 of her brother. :D

 

We do not really have a "home." I have no idea where we would be buried. So right now, it would be cremation for us.

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I don't like cremation due to the green house gases produced and extreme amount of energy used.

I would ideally like to be wrapped in a shroud and plonked under a tree. Sadly that's not legal, but my family are under strict instructions that I'm to be disposed of in the most eco friendly method available. At present here that's probably burial at sea but I'm not sure how easy that is to organise.

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Neither.

Feed me to the sharks or the vultures.

If I have to be buried - I want it naked on a bed of flower petals. NO BOX.

If I have to have a box - make it homemade pine.

 

ETA: I haven't read the other replies yet - good question, look forward to this one.

I am bit surprized by the fact that it doesn't come up in your circle prior to the fact.

Everyone already knows that I want wine, beer, music, and dancing at mine.

One friend doesn't care what we do for her, another friend wants to be scatered in a river....or was it the ocean? (I have it written down).

Edited by Karen sn
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I have some of my dad's ashes in a tiny urn on a neck chain. It sounds morbid doesn't it? But when I miss him I get out my little box of memories with the tiny urn in it and go through it. It helps me.

 

Doesn't sound morbid at all. My Dad died in May and we had him cremated. For us, it was the perfect solution because we waited to have him buried until the next month when all four kids were present. Plus, Dad didn't die in his own town, but hours away.

 

I requested a small bag of his ashes. (They aren't white, btw, they're gray.) I plan to travel to the town where he was born and raised one day and spread half the ashes. A pinch here, a pinch there, at his favorite places. The other half I plan to keep.

 

I would have purchased one of those urn necklaces, but for the fact that I do not wear jewelry. So I need to find something more appropriate than a baggie. :tongue_smilie:

 

My DH wants to be cremated. I told him I would haunt him if he cremated me. I want buried, and I have given him a few choices of cemeteries. I want a tall stone, not a flat mow-over stone. I do genealogy, and I love cemeteries with tall stones.

 

DH and I will both be organ donors.

 

FWIW, even though it was convenient for my Dad, I detest cremeation. It just gives me the creeps. But I follow wishes regardless of my own feelings. Dad wanted to be cremated. DH does, so if he passes first, I will follow his wishes.

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Neither.

Feed me to the sharks or the vultures.

If I have to be buried - I want it naked on a bed of flower petals. NO BOX.

If I have to have a box - make it homemade pine.

 

ETA: I haven't read the other replies yet - good question, look forward to this one.

I am bit surprized by the fact that it doesn't come up in your circle prior to the fact.

Everyone already knows that I want wine, beer, music, and dancing at mine.

One friend doesn't care what we do for her, another friend wants to be scatered in a river....or was it the ocean? (I have it written down).

 

I love the idea of the plain pine box.. non of that embalming stuff. I also like the flower petals too. Not sure there is a good way to go these days. We are running out of room to bury, and the eco worries about cremation. :confused:

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I think I want to be cremated. My mom's parents were cremated, and they rode around in the truck on their farm until the kids decided where to put them. :D However, they still have headstones in the little cemetery where a lot of our family is buried. I think that's nice, because if anyone wants to find them, that information is there. Plus if I want to go visit them, I go there, even though I know they are not there (physically or spiritually).

 

I don't know if I have told dh what I want, but I told him that if he dies while we live in NC, he will have to be cremated, because I have no intention of staying here without him and he will have to be portable. Bless him, he said that was fine with him. Sometimes I wonder how he hasn't had me committed after some of these kinds of conversations I've made him have with me.

 

So there you have it. My answer is, "I don't know."

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I have no preference on way or the other regarding burial or cremation. I just thought I'd put my two cents in here to encourage others to become organ donors. I am a living donor (my sister has my left kidney), and my husband knows that he should have my other organs donated when I die. I would encourage everyone to discuss their wishes regarding donation with their family, including their children (if they are of appropriate age, of course). In our state, they have an organ donor registry.

My sister needs another transplant, and is on dialysis while she waits on the list. Which is five years long, on average.

Most people on dialysis die of heart failure. My sister is only 32. Organ donation is a big deal to me. :) I would be forever grateful for someone's family who, in their time of grief, decided to donate the organs of their loved one, which in turn would save my sister's life.

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In addition, one of the markers of Sainthood in the traditional Christian Church is that the body does not become "corrupt". This is a hard marker to see if it has already been burned.

 

 

I really don't know what you mean here. The Bible is pretty clear that all those who have been born again are saints -- no marker is needed.

 

Also, I don't really spend much time looking at what has been done traditionally over the years -- I just read what the Bible says about the body. Perhaps my Christianity is too simplistic, though.

 

2 Cor 5:8 is pretty clear that we are absent from the body when we are with the Lord:

We are confident, [i say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

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Traditionally, cremation was practiced by non-Christian cultures, which view the body materially, not spritually. Burial is a Judeo-Christian practice, historically. The body is not viewed as something to be cast away or destroyed, but "put away" and then the place of the "putting away" --grave or mausoleum--visited for remembrance of those we have loved. It is also a marker to the rest of us that there is a future in the graveyard for all of us. This is a help to living a considered life.

 

In addition, one of the markers of Sainthood in the traditional Christian Church is that the body does not become "corrupt". This is a hard marker to see if it has already been burned.

 

When you talk with people about this, listen to the words they use to describe their preferences. If you do this, you will learn a lot about why they are making their choices. Some family members of mine were planning to be cremated; I asked them why, and they said that it was cheaper. Interesting. (It doesn't need to be so, by the way...) Others say, "The body is just a bag of bones I walked around in...it doesn't matter much." Hmmm.

 

I have been thinking about this with a number of people lately as part of a seminar we are going to offer in our church: "A Christian Ending to Our Lives"--which is about the wills, the medical directives, the funeral and burial plans we need to think about making as the statistics are, so far, nearly 100% in that direction for all of us.

 

Touchstone Magazine has run a number of articles on this in the past; unfortunately, their web-access to these articles is limited, but if you can find a copy of the magazine in the library, and IF you are really interested inlearning more about it, this is a good resource.

 

None of this is intended to say that one's Christianity can be tested by their decision in this issue. It is just to say what has been the thought, traditionally, and to answer from these shoes.

 

This Little Bee.

 

I agree with much of what you say here, Patty. When dh and I have had this conversation, he tends to argue both from the traditions of the church in history and against the tendency toward gnosticism. We were created body and soul, both declared good by our Creator.

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Traditionally, cremation was practiced by non-Christian cultures, which view the body materially, not spritually. Burial is a Judeo-Christian practice, historically. The body is not viewed as something to be cast away or destroyed, but "put away" and then the place of the "putting away" --grave or mausoleum--visited for remembrance of those we have loved. It is also a marker to the rest of us that there is a future in the graveyard for all of us. This is a help to living a considered life.

 

In addition, one of the markers of Sainthood in the traditional Christian Church is that the body does not become "corrupt". This is a hard marker to see if it has already been burned.

 

When you talk with people about this, listen to the words they use to describe their preferences. If you do this, you will learn a lot about why they are making their choices. Some family members of mine were planning to be cremated; I asked them why, and they said that it was cheaper. Interesting. (It doesn't need to be so, by the way...) Others say, "The body is just a bag of bones I walked around in...it doesn't matter much." Hmmm.

 

I have been thinking about this with a number of people lately as part of a seminar we are going to offer in our church: "A Christian Ending to Our Lives"--which is about the wills, the medical directives, the funeral and burial plans we need to think about making as the statistics are, so far, nearly 100% in that direction for all of us.

 

Touchstone Magazine has run a number of articles on this in the past; unfortunately, their web-access to these articles is limited, but if you can find a copy of the magazine in the library, and IF you are really interested inlearning more about it, this is a good resource.

 

None of this is intended to say that one's Christianity can be tested by their decision in this issue. It is just to say what has been the thought, traditionally, and to answer from these shoes.

 

This Little Bee.

 

 

Is it a Judeo-Christian tradition based on biblical instructions? Or is it a man-made tradition? I really don't know and would love scriptural references. I can't believe I've never really thought very deeply about this before but now I can't seem to stop thinking about it.

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My anthropologist brother-in-law worked with Dr. William Bass at Univ. Tenn. Knoxville years ago. Dr. Bass has done extensive research in forensic anthropology. He has the Body Farm somewhere near Knoxville. You will have to confirm this, but at one time they were accepting cadaver donations for research work. The cadavers would be exposed to varying conditions to determine rate and manner of decomposition. Such knowledge can be invaluable to criminal investigators.

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I could never stand the thought of being buried and what happens afterward; cremation is definitely for me. But I do understand that some people like having a place to visit, headstone to see. I do, however, think the cost is ridiculous. And I actually know people who will not move because family members are buried nearby. So, still, cremation sounds more reasonable to me, and much better, considering the population and state of the planet.

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I thought the Hank Hannegraaf article linked had some helpful scriptural additions. The example of Christ himself being buried, because the body that died is the body that rose. One to one correspondence. That is NOT to say that God can't recreate our resurrected bodies from ashes, obviously there are believers who have been dust for centuries who will rise incorruptable when Christ clothes their souls again. My dear aunt passed away from cancer this past June and chose cremation, the first in our family to do so. And I would never have questioned her reasons for this choice, I don't know if it was because of the wasting of her body or because of financial concerns. But I think the *general* choice for Christians should be burial because of the statement it makes about the honor we have for the body, as well as the soul.

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I don't like cremation due to the green house gases produced and extreme amount of energy used.

.

 

 

same here, plus burying the body is carbon sinking.

 

 

 

 

I always was told that cremated bodies have a coffin as well. It always seemed a waste of money to buy a coffin and burn it straight away

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I thought the Hank Hannegraaf article linked had some helpful scriptural additions. The example of Christ himself being buried, because the body that died is the body that rose. One to one correspondence. That is NOT to say that God can't recreate our resurrected bodies from ashes, obviously there are believers who have been dust for centuries who will rise incorruptable when Christ clothes their souls again. My dear aunt passed away from cancer this past June and chose cremation, the first in our family to do so. And I would never have questioned her reasons for this choice, I don't know if it was because of the wasting of her body or because of financial concerns. But I think the *general* choice for Christians should be burial because of the statement it makes about the honor we have for the body, as well as the soul.

 

Thank you for mentioning this. Somehow I missed it but I went back and read it and it was very interesting.

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Hi, Dawn,

 

If the thoughts and behaviors of those who have gone before isn't of interest, then my post is pretty irrelevant, I'd have to agree.

 

Kind regards,

 

Oh no, it really isn't that they aren't of interest, only that they must not contradict the scripture that came before. That's all.

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I really don't know what you mean here. The Bible is pretty clear that all those who have been born again are saints -- no marker is needed.

 

Also, I don't really spend much time looking at what has been done traditionally over the years -- I just read what the Bible says about the body. Perhaps my Christianity is too simplistic, though.

 

2 Cor 5:8 is pretty clear that we are absent from the body when we are with the Lord:

We are confident, [i say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

No. A saint is anyone in heaven (per catholic teaching). We don't know who is in heaven with any real certainy most of the time, but there are a few people over the centuries that we can say it appears God has given clear signs they went straight to heaven. (vs pergatory or hell - which are NOT the same places). The Catholic church has very strict guidelines for what it takes to definitively call someone a saint - to basicly declare that someone went straight to heaven. One of the "markers" of sainthood is a dead body that remains incorrupt.

 

Aside from that, although it is somewhat frowned upon for a catholic to be cremated, it is not considered sinful or wrong.

 

Now for my own opinion...

 

I vote for a home prepared and viewed body and private burial. This is how it was done in the old days. The parlor was set up and family prepared the dead for viewing and burying. PBS had a wonderfully done documentary called a Family Undertaking on this about a year ago that I'd highly recommend.

 

I know the soul is no longer within the body after death.

But I have loved my family with my body and my soul. I've looked into my dh's eyes for almost 9 births. I've held his hand through many a trying time. Is his body as important as his soul? Absolutely not. But I can't just discard it as a useless husk either. Also, for some of the living, it is healing to have a marker, a grave to visit. I don't know that I'd be a hovering widow over a grave, but my dh might be. Or the kids might feel a need to have a grave to visit and chat.

 

Aside form that, why at home? I find that the methods used at funeral homes are barbaric and offensive to me. Seriously. Do you know what they do to bodies in those places to make them "presentable" and prep for burial - none of it neccessary, btw? Only the strong of heart should bother to learn because it's really not pleasant. You'll feel like your reading something from ancient egypt or worse.

 

The notion of someone doing those things to the body of my loved one is very bothersome to me. No the soul isn't present, but these bodies have been held, loved, bathed, fed, prayed over, and so much more. I wouldn't willingly or needlessly harm their body alive and I guess it bothers me to think of some stranger doing it after their death too.

 

I'm really not a very sentimental person, I've held many a dying a hand - so it's not that death or a dead body bother me. But for some reason the choice of cremation or funeral burial has always bothered me. Even as a child I found them barbaric and callous treatment of the last remains of a loved one.

 

All that to say, I would never argue to make someone do what I feel on this issue. Just saying how *I* feel about it.:)

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LoL, I'm always on guard of anyone at a beautiful place holding an urn. Way back in high school my best friends mom called me (of all people) to help her. Seems she had taken her dh/phil out and couldn't get him back in. She didn't want her dd to know or any of her friends or family, so the job fell to me. Oy...

 

Okay you guys...here is a true story.

 

My parents have friends; the wife's elderly mother died. Her wish was to be creamated and for her ashes to be sprinkled over some beautiful body of water somewhere in the world. Well, a year went by and her ashes were still sitting in the urn. The friend and her dh went on a river cruise in Europe. One evening as they were cruising somewhere in Germany or France, they just *knew* this was the spot. "Mother" was brought up in the urn and the friend gently and reverently tipped the urn and began to pour the ashes into the river.

 

Just then, a terrific gust of wind blew up. Ashes went everywhere. People on the deck were suddenly covered in white ash. The ship soon docked, and people, with "Mother" still stuck to them, departed for an evening in town.

 

The woman looked at her husband, sighed, and said, "Well, Mother always did want to travel all over."

 

LOL.

 

Ria (who wants to be cremated but not sprinkled on unwitting travelers)

Edited by Tammyla
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I read a fabulous book that mentioned the Body Farm, and other extremely interesting ways of disposing/using dead bodies. I can't for the life remember the name of the book, but it was a slang word for a dead body. (Stiff? I forget!) Fabulous reading. They use lower legs to test combat boots, track decomposition rates in different conditions with entire bodies, use every tissue almost for research (better than using live animals, IMO), there are really a wealth of ways to put your body to use when you are gone.

 

So my plan is donation of everything useful- top to bottom. I found a company that takes bodies after organ donation (which they would do right away, of course) and uses the tissue, bones, etc etc. Almost all used up, then they cremate the rest, but I don't want any back. Or rather, don't want any to come back to my family.It would make me very happy to be so useful in my death!

 

FWIW, I am also RC.

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