Are thank you notes not needed anymore?

[PeacefulChaos]

I don't think it is sad at all. It just sounds like it's some sort of relationship flag for some people. For all the talk of how a gift is a gift with no expectation, relationships are not usually like that. They tend to be two way streets. If I am the only one to ever make any effort to maintain a relationship, whether it be gifts or other aspects - it is normal and healthy to question whether there is a genuine relationship in existence and if I want to continue maintaining it one-sided. And if not, then hey, no hard feeling, people drift and change. It happens. But no, it's okay to decide to let it go. Which could mean many aspects of the one sided relationship stop, such as no longer sending gifts to people I feel I don't have a genuine a relationship with anymore.

 

Yes, I don't necessarily disagree with that.  I don't personally see it as a relationship flag, but I have never experienced ungratefulness from anyone I've given a gift to, but like I said before, that could be because I don't often give gifts to people I don't know well.  I just can't.  

 

So it could be that some people are just capable financially of giving gifts to people who are acquaintances rather than actual friends, or that they are just the type of people who use gifts as a way to build relationships (use sounds like a bad word, but I don't mean it that way at all).  

 

I'm not much of a 'girl' in that aspect - I don't have that 'feminine quality' of being particularly thoughtful.  Last year I forgot one of my best friend's/SIL's birthday.   :lol:  But I don't usually buy her something anyway, I take her out to eat or something.  Anyway.  

And I don't think there is ever such a thing as an obligatory gift.  So I don't ever feel bad about not giving one.  Even if I genuinely forgot.   :lol:  Because why feel bad about that?

 

 

ETA because I thought of something as I reread and bolded what I wanted to address: 

I think that there can be a couple types of giving.  

Type 1: I had an acquaintance one time say that she felt like 'God wanted her to give someone in the church some money' because she knew they had financial hardships.  But then she went on to complain because she felt like they didn't use it in the way she thought they should have.  And that really turned me off regarding my relationship with her, because she didn't know the situation of the person in question fully - they weren't/aren't particularly close, etc.  I've been on the opposite end of that, where someone walked up to church a couple weeks before Christmas and gave DH $100.  I took $50 and DH took $50 and we used it to buy each other Christmas presents.  Other people looking in could have easily thought that we were being irresponsible, that we should have done something else with it, but what they weren't privy to was the fact that I had specifically told DH (and prayed, honestly) that I'd love to do Christmas gifts for each other that year, and if we could just have $50 apiece to spend, that would be more than enough.  When we first got that money, for a split second I debated not using it for that purpose, but in the end, it was exactly what I had asked for!!  So I never felt bad about it.  

So suffice to say, in circumstances where people are giving money in cases like that - to be charitable or what have you - I think there should be no expectations or strings attached.  

Type 2: Giving between friends.  I forget SIL's birthday; she gives me something for mine.  :lol:  We give each other's kids stuff for their birthdays.  If I see something that makes me think of her specifically, I pick it up.  Over the years, we have different things that we've done where one or the other has footed the bill, usually nothing huge.  You forgot cash? Nbd, I've got it.  I don't require being paid back immediately or any sort of major acknowledgement because in general, our relationship is such that these things go back and forth.  I have another relationship that is the same.  

So with those relationships, I guess one could call it an expectation, but more than anything it is a comfort level.  This is what we do.  We don't worry about every last penny of everything, because inevitably it'll be the other way around next time.  :)

Type 3:  Gift giving on holidays and special occasions.  Our family lives close to one another, for the most part, so we have actual birthday parties where we give the little kids presents, or we see them when they are getting them one way or another (Link still gets gifts from aforementioned SIL; her kids are much younger, however, so it's not like they are at his birthday gathering - they give it another time when we see them, which is never less than 1x/wk).  We don't do interfamily gift exchanges at Christmas.  At all things within our own house and outside when any gifts like that are exchanged, there are always verbal thank yous.  And Link and Pink, in particular, have reactions that would express gratefulness even without the words :lol: ... Astro is our laid back kid, so a big reaction from him is a smile.  :lol:  But he still says thank you, too.  He's just not a drama king or queen. ;)

For other occasions - weddings, graduations, and the like - I usually only give gifts if I already know the people well.  So I can't really remember the last time I gave either (we're in that in between stage, but our oldest nieces and nephews are starting their first years of high school this fall, so the graduation season will be upon us again soon!!)  ... in those cases, I don't mind one way or another whether or not there is a thank you.  Most likely I will be there when they get it, and a verbal thanks at the time would be more than enough, but if we aren't, and they don't, that's ok too, because family is family and I love them anyway.  :)  

The only exception to my 'gifts for good friends only' has been baby gifts.  For some reason, I personally just LOVE giving baby gifts.  So I will literally give one to every pregnant woman in the church, whether I've ever met her or not.  Always something small - a blanket, an outfit - but I just love doing them.  Those I expect nothing from, because I don't know the people, anyway.  I just do it because I love it.

 

 

Sorry that my ETA is so long lol.  :)

Edited July 2, 2016 by PeacefulChaos

[poppy]

In our family it is rude to use formal expressions of thanks or request; it separates the people using the expressions (by formalizing their interactions) and says (for us) "you are not someone I'm close enough to to just say what I want or need, instead I must couch it in some sort of formal language").

 

So for us, saying "thanks" and "please" before and after every single give/take interaction is a mark or what other people do in public settings, and *not* what we do with people we know or care about.

 

Except in extreme circumstances, where it's not a formality but really an expression of the feeling itself.

 

Like, I'm not actually all that thankful that DD gives me the butter knife - she is as me, and the passing of the butter knife is an expected thing between us, and it has nothing to do with please or thanks.

 

But I *am* thankful if she cleans the kitchen when I was expecting to have to do it myself at the end of a long day, so then I will thank her.

 

At Christmas, for instance, we don't say thank you after opening every gift (or sometimes any of them) - we all know we're getting each other gifts, so to say thank you formally is just weird, to us. We do say things like, "oh, it's wonderful!" (if it is wonderful) or "perfect color, this is awesome!" or whatever - just whatever comes naturally.

 

Then again, we are in general pretty direct and honest with the kids and each other. They have never believed in Santa Claus because we don't lie to them. So I guess small children don't normally do a lot of thanking at Christmas anyway because it is all from this mythical "Santa" who isn't there to thank :)

This-- the no please/ thank you -- reminds me of a family I know . 'Mom ,give me a snack. ' or 'Butter this , now' . The kids basically just give commands . They treat me the same way when we go camping together . 'I am ready for you to give me a juice box' says the 6 year old. I bite my tongue but it's annoying - if an adult talked to me that way I wouldn't like it either!

[PeacefulChaos]

On a side note (sorry!  I know I'm writing a ton of replies but I keep thinking of things I forgot!) --- I hadn't heard of the follow up email from an interviewee.  Probably because all the classes I took on how to dress, act, etc in interviews and in professional settings were when I was a junior in high school, in 1998-99, and email wasn't a thing then!!  

 

That's definitely important to know if it's the norm nowadays though.  I want to be sure my kids are ready for stuff like that.  

 

Is it the norm for most people?

[catz]

On a side note (sorry!  I know I'm writing a ton of replies but I keep thinking of things I forgot!) --- I hadn't heard of the follow up email from an interviewee.  Probably because all the classes I took on how to dress, act, etc in interviews and in professional settings were when I was a junior in high school, in 1998-99, and email wasn't a thing then!!  

 

That's definitely important to know if it's the norm nowadays though.  I want to be sure my kids are ready for stuff like that.  

 

Is it the norm for most people?

 

I graduated college in 93 and did an interview workshop about that time frame.  They always recommended a follow up letter after an interview in those days.  These days it's just acceptable to do via e-mail vs. a business letter.  I guess I'd rather be the over thankful candidate than the removed one.  Especially if you are very interested in the opportunity.  And it's totally possible to write a short sincere thank you without getting into being a suck up or syrupy. 

[Guest]

On a side note (sorry! I know I'm writing a ton of replies but I keep thinking of things I forgot!) --- I hadn't heard of the follow up email from an interviewee. Probably because all the classes I took on how to dress, act, etc in interviews and in professional settings were when I was a junior in high school, in 1998-99, and email wasn't a thing then!!

 

That's definitely important to know if it's the norm nowadays though. I want to be sure my kids are ready for stuff like that.

 

Is it the norm for most people?

It's somewhat dependent I would say upon the job role. Some interviews are cattle calls and you aren't going to have anyone's email to send to. But if you are one on one interviewed and can request the interviewer(s) business card(s) and an email is provided on it, it definitely doesn't hurt the day after the interview to fire off a quick note like

 

Dear Mrs. Smith,

 

I just wanted to send a quick note to thank you for you time yesterday and considering me for X position. (Then you can throw in your last chance self sell) I really enjoyed meeting you and your staff and feel like I could be a definite asset to your organization. (Then add a bit more maybe without going over the top- it's going to depend highly on the type of company.) Please let me know if you have any more questions. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Sincerely,

John Q Public

 

In this way it's not only a thank you- it's a last chance to sell yourself and maybe differentiate yourself from the public because when I left the working world five years ago- all people definitely did not do this. Some acted very blasé about the whole thing like they didn't care if they got the job. I will speak one caution to maybe stress to teens- don't use this to follow up too frequently on the job status. As in don't pepper them every three days on whether or not they've selected someone. Hopefully they provide a window of when they hope to have someone in place. If not I would wait three weeks and do a follow up. Just my two cents. :)

[PeacefulChaos]

I graduated college in 93 and did an interview workshop about that time frame.  They always recommended a follow up letter after an interview in those days.  These days it's just acceptable to do via e-mail vs. a business letter.  I guess I'd rather be the over thankful candidate than the removed one.  Especially if you are very interested in the opportunity.  And it's totally possible to write a short sincere thank you without getting into being a suck up or syrupy. 

 

 

It's somewhat dependent I would say upon the job role. Some interviews are cattle calls and you aren't going to have anyone's email to send to. But if you are one on one interviewed and can request the interviewer(s) business card(s) and an email is provided on it, it definitely doesn't hurt the day after the interview to fire off a quick note like

 

Dear Mrs. Smith,

 

I just wanted to send a quick note to thank you for you time yesterday and considering me for X position. (Then you can throw in your last chance self sell) I really enjoyed meeting you and your staff and feel like I could be a definite asset to your organization. (Then add a bit more maybe without going over the top- it's going to depend highly on the type of company.) Please let me know if you have any more questions. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Sincerely,

John Q Public

 

In this way it's not only a thank you- it's a last chance to sell yourself and maybe differentiate yourself from the public because when I left the working world five years ago- all people definitely did not do this. Some acted very blasé about the whole thing like they didn't care if they got the job. I will speak one caution to maybe stress to teens- don't use this to follow up too frequently on the job status. As in don't pepper them every three days on whether or not they've selected someone. Hopefully they provide a window of when they hope to have someone in place. If not I would wait three weeks and do a follow up. Just my two cents. :)

 

 

Good to know!  Thank you!

 

I don't know why I don't remember the thank you note thing from high school, though I could just be forgetting.  It *was* a long time ago, and it has also been a long time since I've had a job interview!  :lol:  I never interviewed for the job I have now, and DH does interviews with his job but with the positions he's interviewing for, I don't think it would be the norm, anyway (not that it would hurt the applicants at all).  

 

The weirdest thing EVER was when I went to interview at the elementary school when I was in high school (we had a contracted ed program where I'd take a couple hours out of the school day to go help teach there; students could do it at whatever they were interested in around the area, if the place of employment would work with them - unpaid, obviously).  I was interviewing with the principal and I was wearing dress slacks and a button up blouse with sensible, nice shoes.  

He told me I was overdressed.  :blink:

I dressed exactly the same for the one at the middle school the following semester - they commented that I dressed quite appropriately.  ;)  :lol:

 

It was so weird.  :lol:

[Reefgazer]

I think thank you notes are always necessary, and yup, I judge people who don't write them negatively.  There.  I admitted it.

[Valley Girl]

One of the uncles was like, 'Oh, we all know mom and dad are actually who use that money!' and I'm thinking uuummmmm no... but the kicker was that I'd been sending his kids money on their birthdays for a couple years. Apparently he went out and spent it himself, or his wife did.  So.  I stopped sending it. :lol:

 

 

Oh, wow. That is so low. (The uncle, not you obviously!) I can see a parent maybe using the money to buy something the child needed (especially if the child is young) or insisting that a certain percentage be put in the child's savings, but to spend it on himself? Yikes! How does he not feel as though he's stealing from his own kid?

[PeacefulChaos]

Oh, wow. That is so low. (The uncle, not you obviously!) I can see a parent maybe using the money to buy something the child needed (especially if the child is young) or insisting that a certain percentage be put in the child's savings, but to spend it on himself? Yikes! How does he not feel as though he's stealing from his own kid?

Right?! I was just kind of like :001_huh: and DH was like, 'That's not what happens here! Guess I'll have to remember not to send YOUR kids money!' :lol:

[Sharon77]

I think thank you notes are always necessary, and yup, I judge people who don't write them negatively.  There.  I admitted it.

:lol:  :hurray:

[Sharon77]

On a side note (sorry!  I know I'm writing a ton of replies but I keep thinking of things I forgot!) --- I hadn't heard of the follow up email from an interviewee.  Probably because all the classes I took on how to dress, act, etc in interviews and in professional settings were when I was a junior in high school, in 1998-99, and email wasn't a thing then!!  

 

That's definitely important to know if it's the norm nowadays though.  I want to be sure my kids are ready for stuff like that.  

 

Is it the norm for most people?

It's not the norm, that's why those who do stand out.

 

When he is going through several people each day, day after day, each and every person is a blur.

[Vida Winter]

Have not read many responses but YES they are necessary. When they are not sent (by those who should know better) the gift tree dries up.

[poppy]

I think this thread win Most Petty award. There I said it!

[OnTheBrink]

If having good manners is petty, so be it.

[PeacefulChaos]

I think this thread win Most Petty award. There I said it!

:lol:

 

I can't necessarily say THE most petty, but it's definitely an eye opener on people judging others.

If people can't understand that I think it's icky to join in and gladly judge people about something, I really don't know what to say....

[poppy]

If having good manners is petty, so be it.

 

The purpose of etiquette is to put others at ease, right?  I'm not sure how the etiquette of thank you notes is a part of that idea. 

" Here is a gift. It does have strings attached. If you failed in your obligation to reciprocate this gift with a written thank you, you will be judged."

[eternalsummer]

Your post just made me think of the after the interview "thank you for the opportunity " email from the applicants that is always well received. If it came down to two applicants who were equal on every level, but one sent a polite follow up email and the other did not, that would make my choice a lot easier on which I would hire.

 

We hire people (we run a small business).  If someone said "thank you for the opportunity" would would not hire them unless they were clearly the only decent candidate.  I wouldn't want to work with someone, or deal with someone, who was excessively formal in that way.

 

Possibly we run in different circles, or have different social expectations?  

 

We also delete all applications from people who refer to themselves as a "that" instead of a "who" ("a person that works really hard!"  "an employee that always shows up on time!" etc.), so in some ways we're kind of crazy.

 

 

All of that said, of course our kids know to speak and behave differently outside the home than in it - they're a lot more polite at school! - but they also know that the degree of politeness required is generally analogous to the degree of separation between the people busy being polite to each other.  I assume they'll pick up socially useful behaviors out in the world as they come across them.  Certainly I did, and it worked out fine.

 

 

Re: the difference between a gift given as a formality to someone you don't know well versus a gift given informally to someone you are close to - that's true, those are two different things.

 

I don't send presents to people I don't know well just because I am expected to for some social occasion.  If I go to a wedding for someone I'm not close to but that I must attend I bring a present because I must; I don't want or expect a note of gratitude, because I didn't give out of the goodness of my heart but because of social expectation. 

 

If it is a wedding for someone I'm close to, I don't expect a note of gratitude because I'm giving the present out of the joy of giving a present; I don't need an expression of thanks from the receiver.

 

We also don't do a lot of the more formal gift-giving occasions that other people do in this society, fwiw.  No Mother's Day, Father's Day, Valentine's Day, etc.  We do Christmas mostly out of external pressure (societal and familial) and I resent it every year.

 

So I get that we're not average people :)  We also don't eat dinner as a family all that often, or have matching silverware, or a bedroom set, or matching sheets, or dye our hair, or wear makeup, or go to church, or eat factory farmed animal products, or a million other things most people seem to do without thinking.

[eternalsummer]

This-- the no please/ thank you -- reminds me of a family I know . 'Mom ,give me a snack. ' or 'Butter this , now' . The kids basically just give commands . They treat me the same way when we go camping together . 'I am ready for you to give me a juice box' says the 6 year old. I bite my tongue but it's annoying - if an adult talked to me that way I wouldn't like it either!

 

 

We don't just omit the please, though - the kids say things like, "I'm hungry for a snack," or "bring me a cup of water while you're in the kitchen?," etc.  No one has ever asked me to butter anything, hah :)  I taught the oldest how to butter her own toast at age 3 and that skill has been passed down the line.

 

We talk to the kids the same way, and to each other - "can you make me a burrito?" "take the laundry on your way downstairs" "hey, give me a hand with this for a second," etc.

[Guest]

The purpose of etiquette is to put others at ease, right? I'm not sure how the etiquette of thank you notes is a part of that idea.

" Here is a gift. It does have strings attached. If you failed in your obligation to reciprocate this gift with a written thank you, you will be judged."

It's purpose is to put others at ease by knowing the appropriate way to respond to the situation- for BOTH parties. It cuts both ways. Part of the issue seems to be that some people have never made the aquaintence of a general etiquette book or have been reared in such a way where it was never taught, and then they either learned it on their own or never knew differently. Some posts on this thread honestly have me thinking that some are now anti-manners. I think the prevalence might vary highly by social class. I mean, finishing schools and cotillion here serve a purpose, and they aren't just for rich snooty people.

 

The problem comes in that I think people don't realize that they're setting their kids up to have to scramble to learn this stuff as adults. There are just social circles that you need to know this stuff to fit in. Or you are bolting the door shut on the chance to rise up in certain situations. I know that's a concept many people find offensive, but it just IS. If you show up to some restaurants with flip flops and shorts, you will be turned away. If you have no clue how to eat a multi course meal and you end up with a high level executive job where dinners with the C levels are a given, you're going to be uncomfortable.

 

To me it is as much of a duty as teaching my children how to handle money, how to clean house, and how to cook- it is a life skill. It helps put the civility in humanity, which seems particularly important at the present.

[poppy]

It's purpose is to put others at ease by knowing the appropriate way to respond to the situation- for BOTH parties. It cuts both ways. Part of the issue seems to be that some people have never made the aquaintence of a general etiquette book or have been reared in such a way where it was never taught, and then they either learned it on their own or never knew differently. Some posts on this thread honestly have me thinking that some are now anti-manners. I think the prevalence might vary highly by social class. I mean, finishing schools and cotillion here serve a purpose, and they aren't just for rich snooty people.

 

The problem comes in that I think people don't realize that they're setting their kids up to have to scramble to learn this stuff as adults. There are just social circles that you need to know this stuff to fit in. Or you are bolting the door shut on the chance to rise up in certain situations. I know that's a concept many people find offensive, but it just IS. If you show up to some restaurants with flip flops and shorts, you will be turned away. If you have no clue how to eat a multi course meal and you end up with a high level executive job where dinners with the C levels are a given, you're going to be uncomfortable.

 

To me it is as much of a duty as teaching my children how to handle money, how to clean house, and how to cook- it is a life skill. It helps put the civility in humanity, which seems particularly important at the present.

 

I think you are making a lot of silly assumptions about the socioeconomic status of posters here.  Particularly about their children's need to rise up. 

RISE UP

RISE UP

(sorry , had a Hamilton moment.....)   

 

Do you really have finishing schools? And cotillions?

You know, I do seem to recall seeing a cotillion on the Vampire Diaries, which is set in...... somewhere south of the Mason-Dixon line. (I know this because the vampires have flashbacks involving the Civil War, and there is a ghost of a slave sometimes, and also, they had a cotillion).   But it is not really a realistic show. 

 

 

Edited to actually address the question!

It seems to me we aren't discussing "Should you teach your children to write thank you notes".  

We are discussing "How do you respond if YOU do not get a thank you note".

Thinking "My children should write notes" does NOT = "People who don't write notes were raised wrong / are insulting me personally".  You can teach your kids that it is good to write notes while also not really caring if you get thank you notes.

Edited July 2, 2016 by poppy

[Guest]

I think you are making a lot of silly assumptions about the socioeconomic status of posters here. Particularly about their children's need to rise up.

RISE UP

RISE UP

(sorry , had a Hamilton moment.....)

 

Do you really have finishing schools? And cotillions?

You know, I do seem to recall seeing a cotillion on the Vampire Diaries, which is set in...... somewhere south of the Mason-Dixon line. (I know this because the vampires have flashbacks involving the Civil War, and there is a ghost of a slave sometimes, and also, they had a cotillion). But it is not really a realistic show.

 

 

Edited to actually address the question!

It seems to me we aren't discussing "Should you teach your children to write thank you notes".

We are discussing "How do you respond if YOU do not get a thank you note".

Thinking "My children should write notes" does NOT = "People who don't write notes were raised wrong / are insulting me personally". You can teach your kids that it is good to write notes while also not really caring if you get thank you notes.

I think it's obvious we're on different sides of the thank you note debate, so I will agree to disagree.

 

As for cotillions- um yeah. They're quite prevalent. Google National League of Junior Cotillion. I can't even begin to list the organizations affiliated with it. As for it being a Southern thing, DAR has them as well and that's a national organization. I mean, it's the same as Jr League and many organizations where it's just what is expected. Almost like a character trait. I'm not sure what else to say- but it's not rare, maybe in certain locations, but it sure isn't here and we aren't living in the past. It's considered a boost up for the kids participating, as much so as what college they attend. There's far more to it than manners- it's about connections.

Edited July 2, 2016 by texasmom33

[PeacefulChaos]

I think you are making a lot of silly assumptions about the socioeconomic status of posters here. Particularly about their children's need to rise up.

RISE UP

RISE UP

(sorry , had a Hamilton moment.....)

 

Do you really have finishing schools? And cotillions?

You know, I do seem to recall seeing a cotillion on the Vampire Diaries, which is set in...... somewhere south of the Mason-Dixon line. (I know this because the vampires have flashbacks involving the Civil War, and there is a ghost of a slave sometimes, and also, they had a cotillion). But it is not really a realistic show.

 

 

Edited to actually address the question!

It seems to me we aren't discussing "Should you teach your children to write thank you notes".

We are discussing "How do you respond if YOU do not get a thank you note".

Thinking "My children should write notes" does NOT = "People who don't write notes were raised wrong / are insulting me personally". You can teach your kids that it is good to write notes while also not really caring if you get thank you notes.

All of this, but ESPECIALLY the ETA part.

That appears to be the thing some aren't getting.

[Tanaqui]

We hire people (we run a small business).  If someone said "thank you for the opportunity" would would not hire them unless they were clearly the only decent candidate.  I wouldn't want to work with someone, or deal with someone, who was excessively formal in that way.

 

So you're going to penalize people for following the advice that's routinely given out to job-seekers? Saying thank you is not "excessively formal" to most people. It's normal.

[Eliz]

My daughters and I write thank you notes unless the gift was given in person.  I send birthday & Christmas gifts to my niece and nephew but have yet to receive any thank you, email or otherwise.  I keep sending gifts but I must admit it stings a bit.

[BarbecueMom]

We've done thank you notes in the past, but it doesn't come up often. Grandpa is the only one that sends gifts to the kids, and he likes the phone call or video chat instead of a card. No one sends us adults anything, lol.

 

I'm surprised at everyone sending gifts to nieces and nephews. I have two nephews, a niece, and two brothers who are under 18, and I have no clue when their birthdays are! Heck, I've had to dig out one of my own kids' birth certificates to make sure I didn't have the date wrong.

[Eliz]

I only have one niece and one nephew.  They are my brother's children.  He passed away at a young age about 5 years ago.  It's important to me to keep a good relationship with his children.  If I had a large family, I probably wouldn't send gifts to everybody either.

[mamiof5]

In our family it is rude to use formal expressions of thanks or request; it separates the people using the expressions (by formalizing their interactions) and says (for us) "you are not someone I'm close enough to to just say what I want or need, instead I must couch it in some sort of formal language").

 

So for us, saying "thanks" and "please" before and after every single give/take interaction is a mark or what other people do in public settings, and *not* what we do with people we know or care about.

 

Except in extreme circumstances, where it's not a formality but really an expression of the feeling itself.

 

Like, I'm not actually all that thankful that DD gives me the butter knife - she is as me, and the passing of the butter knife is an expected thing between us, and it has nothing to do with please or thanks.

 

But I *am* thankful if she cleans the kitchen when I was expecting to have to do it myself at the end of a long day, so then I will thank her.

 

At Christmas, for instance, we don't say thank you after opening every gift (or sometimes any of them) - we all know we're getting each other gifts, so to say thank you formally is just weird, to us. We do say things like, "oh, it's wonderful!" (if it is wonderful) or "perfect color, this is awesome!" or whatever - just whatever comes naturally.

 

Then again, we are in general pretty direct and honest with the kids and each other. They have never believed in Santa Claus because we don't lie to them. So I guess small children don't normally do a lot of thanking at Christmas anyway because it is all from this mythical "Santa" who isn't there to thank :)

Thank you so much for explaining! Well... I have to admit your perspective is something totally new for me. We are super big on please and thank you, we encourage the kids to use it since very young. For us it's not a symbol of formality, at all. Very interesting to read a different perspective though! Thanks again for explaining :)

[poppy]

I think it's obvious we're on different sides of the thank you note debate, so I will agree to disagree.

 

As for cotillions- um yeah. They're quite prevalent. Google National League of Junior Cotillion. I can't even begin to list the organizations affiliated with it. As for it being a Southern thing, DAR has them as well and that's a national organization. I mean, it's the same as Jr League and many organizations where it's just what is expected. Almost like a character trait. I'm not sure what else to say- but it's not rare, maybe in certain locations, but it sure isn't here and we aren't living in the past. It's considered a boost up for the kids participating, as much so as what college they attend. There's far more to it than manners- it's about connections.

I went to a college that is a former finishing school. When I went it , was a women's liberal arts college - that definitely had more women's studies majors than debutantes. I think we probably come from very , very different worlds. I am also involved in junior league and I have never once heard it described in that manner.... It is service not self serving.

 

My kids write thank you notes, but, I am not going to raise them to expect to receive them. It is nice but optional.

[catz]

 

Edited to actually address the question!

It seems to me we aren't discussing "Should you teach your children to write thank you notes".  

We are discussing "How do you respond if YOU do not get a thank you note".

Thinking "My children should write notes" does NOT = "People who don't write notes were raised wrong / are insulting me personally".  You can teach your kids that it is good to write notes while also not really caring if you get thank you notes.

 

:mellow:  So do you think some of us are at home wrapping gifts with our kids saying "well Suzy, if Johnny doesn't send a thank you for this gift, he's an uneducated ape that we should shun". 

 

I'm not going to speak for everyone.  All I said was I at a minimum appreciate acknowledgment of receipt of a gift.  That can be a text "Aunt Jane - I got your gift card.  Thanks so much!  Talk to you soon."  If I get a thank you via e-mail or slow mail, I appreciate that too.  I did have a couple of cards with money in them lifted at my wedding so I do like to know things made it to the right person.  Yes, I do think it is good manners to acknowledge.  But if I don't get one, it is no more than a passing thought.

 

What I would and do teach my kids is that relationships are 2 way streets.  It's not anyone's duty to give and give while someone just takes.  And that doesn't just mean in terms of gifts, but emotional support, time, etc.  Healthy relationships are 2 way.  I personally let people walk all over me as a young adult and I hope my kids would not chose to do the same.  So no, I don't cut people off for not sending a thank you.  If over time a relationship is dictated by primarily contact made by me, I do not do that for long.  I personally don't know anyone who would cut off a relationship with another person for forgetting a single thank you.  But a long term trend of non-responsiveness and distance?  Sure.  That's a much more nuanced thing than just saying someone who doesn't send thank yous = bad.   There are people in my life who I know do not acknowledge gifts but I know do engage personally with me and appreciate me, so they are in my life. 

 

Who knew expressing appreciation for a social nicety could be so controversial.   

[poppy]

WS - I'm with you. Very nice to get a note , oh well if you don't. I was addressing the 'if I don't get a note , I'll give less next time / the present stream dries up' folks who are passing along their values to their children. Not unlikely it is passed on from their own parents (perhaps not explicitly).

Edited July 3, 2016 by poppy

[Jane in NC]

I think the whole gift giving thing has gotten tricky for some of us.

 

My husband is from a larger family.  When he and I married, we sent gifts to each sibling, their spouse, and their kids--and quite honestly we could not really afford it.  But something else was going on too.  Even those who did not mind shopping seemed to feel that everyone was just acquiring too much stuff.  Years ago we created a gift exchange among my husband's sibs and spouses.  We all draw a name and give what we call a Secret Santa gift to one person.  It was relief (and just plain fun) to focus on one person and not buy obligatory gifts.

 

None of the the nieces or nephews are part of the name drawing. We continued to buy and mail gifts to the nieces and nephews through high school or college--depending on our relationship with the niece or nephew.  I think many of us with family cultures of regular present buying struggle with when to stop.  Some of you may live in the same town with your nieces and nephews. Maybe you see them regularly. You know that Nicole loves earrings and Philip is a beer drinker.  But if I have not heard from Dorothy or Dieter except via their parent, do I really need to continue buying a gift because I once did? (There are two nephews whom we saw frequently when they lived with their parents.  They have both moved to other states and I now only cross paths with the one who has kids.)

 

I am closer emotionally to some nieces and nephews than others.  The nephew who is closest to me geographically is the one I see most often.  I usually deliver his son's birthday and Christmas gifts.  We receive verbal thanks but I usually write the thank you note because they often host us. 

 

It sounds as though some of you don't have family cultures of gift giving so you don't have to think about thank you notes.  Again this is tricky. If you have a sibling that sends very generous gifts, it can be hard not to attempt some sort of reciprocation.  Ah, but this is not being a generous giver, is it?  It is a game of reciprocation which can be tied into other family stuff and hence hard to walk away from.

 

And maybe that is part of what is going on here for me.  If I feel an obligation to send gifts (often from the parent of the recipient) but hear nothing from the recipient, I have to ask whether I am giving cheerfully.

 

Will I regret this post?  Fire away!

 

 

 

 

[Lady Florida.]

Maybe I misunderstood this thread. I thought the OP was asking if written, stamped, and mailed thank-you notes are still necessary. I never took it as whether or not a thank-you is necessary.

 

My previous post as well as this one, addresses that. No, I don't think a Very Special Hallmark Thank-You is necessary and I don't get bothered if someone doesn't send one to me. If I get a text or email or other electronic thank-you I consider that appropriate. 

 

Much of the modern world is moving to an all electronic method of communication. We've already moved to mostly electronic. Just as handwritten letters are pretty much a thing of the past,  handwritten thank-you notes are going that way as well. You can complain about it and say you don't like it, but that doesn't change anything. 

 

I don't believe that expressing gratitude will become obsolete, but the manner in which it's expressed is changing. That's okay. 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2016 by Lady Florida.

[FaithManor]

I think the whole gift giving thing has gotten tricky for some of us.

 

My husband is from a larger family.  When he and I married, we sent gifts to each sibling, their spouse, and their kids--and quite honestly we could not really afford it.  But something else was going on too.  Even those who did not mind shopping seemed to feel that everyone was just acquiring too much stuff.  Years ago we created a gift exchange among my husband's sibs and spouses.  We all draw a name and give what we call a Secret Santa gift to one person.  It was relief (and just plain fun) to focus on one person and not buy obligatory gifts.

 

None of the the nieces or nephews are part of the name drawing. We continued to buy and mail gifts to the nieces and nephews through high school or college--depending on our relationship with the niece or nephew.  I think many of us with family cultures of regular present buying struggle with when to stop.  Some of you may live in the same town with your nieces and nephews. Maybe you see them regularly. You know that Nicole loves earrings and Philip is a beer drinker.  But if I have not heard from Dorothy or Dieter except via their parent, do I really need to continue buying a gift because I once did? (There are two nephews whom we saw frequently when they lived with their parents.  They have both moved to other states and I now only cross paths with the one who has kids.)

 

I am closer emotionally to some nieces and nephews than others.  The nephew who is closest to me geographically is the one I see most often.  I usually deliver his son's birthday and Christmas gifts.  We receive verbal thanks but I usually write the thank you note because they often host us. 

 

It sounds as though some of you don't have family cultures of gift giving so you don't have to think about thank you notes.  Again this is tricky. If you have a sibling that sends very generous gifts, it can be hard not to attempt some sort of reciprocation.  Ah, but this is not being a generous giver, is it?  It is a game of reciprocation which can be tied into other family stuff and hence hard to walk away from.

 

And maybe that is part of what is going on here for me.  If I feel an obligation to send gifts (often from the parent of the recipient) but hear nothing from the recipient, I have to ask whether I am giving cheerfully.

 

Will I regret this post?  Fire away!

Our family culture has moved completely away from the gift giving thing for the most part. Almost no one exchanges gifts. On holidays we pretty much share food, and play games. So my kids ended up not really doing much with note writing because they were usually with grandma and grandpa when they got their gift, opened it, expressed, thanks, and gave hugs on the spot. So for their graduation parties with a wider group of people attending and gifts coming their way that would not have been the norm when they were growing up, I've had to set them down and say, "Some people are going to get mega offended if you don't send a note. Here are the cards. I'll look up the addresses and mail them for you when you have them written."

 

My paternal grandmother's family was afronted by thank you notes. Her family cultures was that you give a gift unconditionally with no expectation, and notes are formal, very formal, almost upper class. So she and her sibs thought it was kind of a snobby thing. They hated getting thank you notes. But, they were also a family that just barely came through the Great Depression. To waste money on a card and postage when food could have been purchased would have been unthinkable. They were raised to believe it was something rich people did to flaunt their wealth thus she raised my dad and his children not to do it. Frankly, they were a fairly poor family for most of their early years too. She literally only wrote one letter a month usually to her mother or to a sister in law, in order to save paper and postage.

 

So I do think you are right about family culture having a big influence.

[TranquilMind]

In our family it is rude to use formal expressions of thanks or request; it separates the people using the expressions (by formalizing their interactions) and says (for us) "you are not someone I'm close enough to to just say what I want or need, instead I must couch it in some sort of formal language").

 

So for us, saying "thanks" and "please" before and after every single give/take interaction is a mark or what other people do in public settings, and *not* what we do with people we know or care about.

 

Except in extreme circumstances, where it's not a formality but really an expression of the feeling itself.

 

Like, I'm not actually all that thankful that DD gives me the butter knife - she is as me, and the passing of the butter knife is an expected thing between us, and it has nothing to do with please or thanks.

 

But I *am* thankful if she cleans the kitchen when I was expecting to have to do it myself at the end of a long day, so then I will thank her.

 

At Christmas, for instance, we don't say thank you after opening every gift (or sometimes any of them) - we all know we're getting each other gifts, so to say thank you formally is just weird, to us.  We do say things like, "oh, it's wonderful!" (if it is wonderful) or "perfect color, this is awesome!" or whatever - just whatever comes naturally.  

 

Then again, we are in general pretty direct and honest with the kids and each other.  They have never believed in Santa Claus because we don't lie to them.  So I guess small children don't normally do a lot of thanking at Christmas anyway because it is all from this mythical "Santa" who isn't there to thank :)

 

What?  Are you seriously saying you discourage your kids from saying thank you as a coutesy?

 

I can't imagine telling my kid, "Hey, pass me that bowl of potatoes" and not saying "Thank you" when it was received.  That's just a natural expression of courtesy.  And your kids had darn well better express courtesy in interviews, work settings, and other situations in which it is expected as a bare minimum. 

 

Courtesy is expressed in that situation, but I see that you are separating out an expression of thankfulness.  Both are necessary in a civil society.

 

I too am pleased and thankful when a kid cleans up the kitchen.  But I still need to say thank you when they go do something for me.  It would be rude to simply demand it and not express appreciation. 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding this and your post above as well. 

 

[TranquilMind]

WS - I'm with you. Very nice to get a note , oh well if you don't. I was addressing the 'if I don't get a note , I'll give less next time / the present stream dries up' folks who are passing along their values to their children. Not unlikely it is passed on from their own parents (perhaps not explicitly).

 

I don't see anyone expressing the idea that no future gifts will be given if a thank you note is withheld, but I didn't read every single post.  Did anyone say that?

 

I do see that it is simply a common courtesy and should not be overlooked.  I think it is sad when adult kids do not know common customs like this.  The ones who do will certainly stand out as exceptionally courteous in the future. 

[TranquilMind]

:mellow:  So do you think some of us are at home wrapping gifts with our kids saying "well Suzy, if Johnny doesn't send a thank you for this gift, he's an uneducated ape that we should shun". 

 

I'm not going to speak for everyone.  All I said was I at a minimum appreciate acknowledgment of receipt of a gift.  That can be a text "Aunt Jane - I got your gift card.  Thanks so much!  Talk to you soon."  If I get a thank you via e-mail or slow mail, I appreciate that too.  I did have a couple of cards with money in them lifted at my wedding so I do like to know things made it to the right person.  Yes, I do think it is good manners to acknowledge.  But if I don't get one, it is no more than a passing thought.

 

What I would and do teach my kids is that relationships are 2 way streets.  It's not anyone's duty to give and give while someone just takes.  And that doesn't just mean in terms of gifts, but emotional support, time, etc.  Healthy relationships are 2 way.  I personally let people walk all over me as a young adult and I hope my kids would not chose to do the same.  So no, I don't cut people off for not sending a thank you.  If over time a relationship is dictated by primarily contact made by me, I do not do that for long.  I personally don't know anyone who would cut off a relationship with another person for forgetting a single thank you.  But a long term trend of non-responsiveness and distance?  Sure.  That's a much more nuanced thing than just saying someone who doesn't send thank yous = bad.   There are people in my life who I know do not acknowledge gifts but I know do engage personally with me and appreciate me, so they are in my life. 

 

Who knew expressing appreciation for a social nicety could be so controversial.   

Like you, I'm really stunned that this could be considered controversial. 

 

Really...good manners are controversial now? 

[Lady Florida.]

In our family it is rude to use formal expressions of thanks or request; it separates the people using the expressions (by formalizing their interactions) and says (for us) "you are not someone I'm close enough to to just say what I want or need, instead I must couch it in some sort of formal language").

 

So for us, saying "thanks" and "please" before and after every single give/take interaction is a mark or what other people do in public settings, and *not* what we do with people we know or care about.

 

 

 

Although I can't imagine not saying please and thank you in our house, I kind of understand what you mean. Dh grew up in the south with Sir and Ma'am as a sign of respect to those adults close to him. I grew up (early years) in the northeast where those titles are formal and reserved for strangers. So, as far as the formality feeling goes, I get it.

 

However, I'm more in agreement with TM on the actual practice of saying please and thank you.

 

What?  Are you seriously saying you discourage your kids from saying thank you as a coutesy?

 

.

I too am pleased and thankful when a kid cleans up the kitchen.  But I still need to say thank you when they go do something for me.  It would be rude to simply demand it and not express appreciation. 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding this and your post above as well. 

 

 

 

TranquilMind, there's very little you and I agree on, but I'm with you here. I can't imagine not thanking dh or ds for doing something for me. In our house we use both please and thank you sincerely. Sometimes in place of please we might say something like "Would you mind doing/getting (whatever the request)?" It means the same as please. Dh and ds thank me when I make an especially delicious dinner, even though I don't expect thanks and don't act hurt if I don't get one. We all thank each other for the little things and we do it sincerely, not out of any expectations. Little things mean a lot IMO, including saying please and thank you over little things. I guess it's just our family culture, but I like it.

[FaithManor]

Oh, and yes, about weddings. You need a secure card box that no one can reach in, and secured to the table, or a gift table attendant. You would not believe how many cards I've seen lifted as an event planner. The toaster? No one is taking that. But even my own cousins - sadly, very poor as their mother was an alcoholic and father addicted to pain meds so not a very functional family - stole some of my wedding cards hoping to find cash inside. My grandmother caught them, returned the cards, and then she and grandpa bought the needed groceries and took it to their apartment. But yah...it happens. As a matter of fact some public venues have a lot of pick-pocketing  - think parks that are open to the public while an event is occurring - and thieves like nothing more than an open air wedding with no one minding the gift table. Then the poor bride and groom are judged as ingrates when in reality they never saw the card, never got the money.

 

 

[Farrar]

:mellow:  So do you think some of us are at home wrapping gifts with our kids saying "well Suzy, if Johnny doesn't send a thank you for this gift, he's an uneducated ape that we should shun". 

 

Well, that's indeed how I was treated when I didn't send one. And was told I was a horrible person. And then they cut off all contact with our branch of the family over it. To be clear, it was a single baby onesie for my twins, given when they were three months old and I was already working again. We had almost no help. I was beyond sleep deprived. I thanked the relative for the gift but never got around to the thank you note. Because... infant twins. But... hey. People who don't send thank you notes deserve to be judged. Thanks, hive. I love the crap (yes, purposeful word choice - judge that too) I learn on here.

[TranquilMind]

Although I can't imagine not saying please and thank you in our house, I kind of understand what you mean. Dh grew up in the south with Sir and Ma'am as a sign of respect to those adults close to him. I grew up (early years) in the northeast where those titles are formal and reserved for strangers. So, as far as the formality feeling goes, I get it.

 

However, I'm more in agreement with TM on the actual practice of saying please and thank you.

 

 

 

TranquilMind, there's very little you and I agree on, but I'm with you here. I can't imagine not thanking dh or ds for doing something for me. In our house we use both please and thank you sincerely. Sometimes in place of please we might say something like "Would you mind doing/getting (whatever the request)?" It means the same as please. Dh and ds thank me when I make an especially delicious dinner, even though I don't expect thanks and don't act hurt if I don't get one. We all thank each other for the little things and we do it sincerely, not out of any expectations. Little things mean a lot IMO, including saying please and thank you over little things. I guess it's just our family culture, but I like it.

 

Ugh, typos...sorry.

 

And yes, there is little we agree on, but I'm glad we agree on common courtesy.  It keeps the wheels of society moving smoothly, extending outward from the family.

 

Now, let's talk about those people who cannot get off their cell phones long enough to thank a cashier....(no, I'm kidding).

[Lady Florida.]

Well, that's indeed how I was treated when I didn't send one. And was told I was a horrible person. And then they cut off all contact with our branch of the family over it. To be clear, it was a single baby onesie for my twins, given when they were three months old and I was already working again. We had almost no help. I was beyond sleep deprived. I thanked the relative for the gift but never got around to the thank you note. Because... infant twins. But... hey. People who don't send thank you notes deserve to be judged. Thanks, hive. I love the crap (yes, purposeful word choice - judge that too) I learn on here.

 

 

I have an aunt like that. Forget one thank you card and your on her sh** list. I'm on the list because I didn't send a card during a particularly stressful time in my life. Fortunately, others in the family are also on the list and we all know what she's like. None of us think the others are ungrateful wretches.

[TranquilMind]

Well, that's indeed how I was treated when I didn't send one. And was told I was a horrible person. And then they cut off all contact with our branch of the family over it. To be clear, it was a single baby onesie for my twins, given when they were three months old and I was already working again. We had almost no help. I was beyond sleep deprived. I thanked the relative for the gift but never got around to the thank you note. Because... infant twins. But... hey. People who don't send thank you notes deserve to be judged. Thanks, hive. I love the crap (yes, purposeful word choice - judge that too) I learn on here.

 

You do realize that is an extreme, out of the ordinary response, don't you?

 

I think anyone who has had one baby can understand that the stress and lack of sleep must be compounded exponentially with multiples and give you a break.

 

Sounds like there might have been other things behind such a response and not one missed thank you when you had new twins. 

 

[Jane in NC]

Well, that's indeed how I was treated when I didn't send one. And was told I was a horrible person. And then they cut off all contact with our branch of the family over it. To be clear, it was a single baby onesie for my twins, given when they were three months old and I was already working again. We had almost no help. I was beyond sleep deprived. I thanked the relative for the gift but never got around to the thank you note. Because... infant twins. But... hey. People who don't send thank you notes deserve to be judged. Thanks, hive. I love the crap (yes, purposeful word choice - judge that too) I learn on here.

 

I am truly sorry if you interpreted my posts in that manner. I did say upthread that I don't expect thank you notes from new moms. Further, I think that it is the acknowledgement that many of us view as important--whether written, in person, over the phone, via email or text.  Let us know if the gift arrived in the mail.  You thanked your relative and if your relative was not content with your thanks, this is not your problem.  It is hers.

 

It seems that every family has a few peculiar relatives in the tree.  One never knows what we'll do next to upset them.

[TranquilMind]

I graduated college in 93 and did an interview workshop about that time frame.  They always recommended a follow up letter after an interview in those days.  These days it's just acceptable to do via e-mail vs. a business letter.  I guess I'd rather be the over thankful candidate than the removed one.  Especially if you are very interested in the opportunity.  And it's totally possible to write a short sincere thank you without getting into being a suck up or syrupy. 

 

I know I'm old school, but I would totally send a written thank you note on some memorable note card.  It would stand out from the run of the mill email thank you. 

[Reefgazer]

I think that this is part of it.  In fact, there was just a thread about a lower middle class student who attended Yale who didn't know squat about social niceties and how much it hindered him.  It's expected in my social circle, and I am not alone in expecting that they will be written by us and that we will receive them from others.  It's pretty rare around here for thank you notes *not* to make the rounds, and gets a raised eyebrow when it doesn't happen.  But more importantly than that, thanking someone is about making the gift giver feel that their efforts were appreciated.  I can't believe some people think that is not important to this conversation or that it is somehow a behavior that is formal or restricted to certain social classes.

 

 

 

It's purpose is to put others at ease by knowing the appropriate way to respond to the situation- for BOTH parties. It cuts both ways. Part of the issue seems to be that some people have never made the aquaintence of a general etiquette book or have been reared in such a way where it was never taught, and then they either learned it on their own or never knew differently. Some posts on this thread honestly have me thinking that some are now anti-manners. I think the prevalence might vary highly by social class. I mean, finishing schools and cotillion here serve a purpose, and they aren't just for rich snooty people.

The problem comes in that I think people don't realize that they're setting their kids up to have to scramble to learn this stuff as adults. There are just social circles that you need to know this stuff to fit in. Or you are bolting the door shut on the chance to rise up in certain situations. I know that's a concept many people find offensive, but it just IS. If you show up to some restaurants with flip flops and shorts, you will be turned away. If you have no clue how to eat a multi course meal and you end up with a high level executive job where dinners with the C levels are a given, you're going to be uncomfortable.

To me it is as much of a duty as teaching my children how to handle money, how to clean house, and how to cook- it is a life skill. It helps put the civility in humanity, which seems particularly important at the present.

 

Edited July 3, 2016 by reefgazer

[poppy]

 

I work in hiring and HR for a tech division of a financial company. Thank you notes for interviews do not make a person stand out in particular. They are nearly universal. It's job hunting 101. If you know to how to put together a resume you know TYs are standard.

 

I am assuming plenty of people who send them do not think of family and business the exact same way.

 

 

I don't see anyone expressing the idea that no future gifts will be given if a thank you note is withheld, but I didn't read every single post. Did anyone say that?

 

I do see that it is simply a common courtesy and should not be overlooked. I think it is sad when adult kids do not know common customs like this. The ones who do will certainly stand out as exceptionally courteous in the future.

A couple did say it impacts future giving , yes.

[PeacefulChaos]

I think the whole gift giving thing has gotten tricky for some of us.

 

My husband is from a larger family. When he and I married, we sent gifts to each sibling, their spouse, and their kids--and quite honestly we could not really afford it. But something else was going on too. Even those who did not mind shopping seemed to feel that everyone was just acquiring too much stuff. Years ago we created a gift exchange among my husband's sibs and spouses. We all draw a name and give what we call a Secret Santa gift to one person. It was relief (and just plain fun) to focus on one person and not buy obligatory gifts.

 

None of the the nieces or nephews are part of the name drawing. We continued to buy and mail gifts to the nieces and nephews through high school or college--depending on our relationship with the niece or nephew. I think many of us with family cultures of regular present buying struggle with when to stop. Some of you may live in the same town with your nieces and nephews. Maybe you see them regularly. You know that Nicole loves earrings and Philip is a beer drinker. But if I have not heard from Dorothy or Dieter except via their parent, do I really need to continue buying a gift because I once did? (There are two nephews whom we saw frequently when they lived with their parents. They have both moved to other states and I now only cross paths with the one who has kids.)

 

I am closer emotionally to some nieces and nephews than others. The nephew who is closest to me geographically is the one I see most often. I usually deliver his son's birthday and Christmas gifts. We receive verbal thanks but I usually write the thank you note because they often host us.

 

It sounds as though some of you don't have family cultures of gift giving so you don't have to think about thank you notes. Again this is tricky. If you have a sibling that sends very generous gifts, it can be hard not to attempt some sort of reciprocation. Ah, but this is not being a generous giver, is it? It is a game of reciprocation which can be tied into other family stuff and hence hard to walk away from.

 

And maybe that is part of what is going on here for me. If I feel an obligation to send gifts (often from the parent of the recipient) but hear nothing from the recipient, I have to ask whether I am giving cheerfully.

 

Will I regret this post? Fire away!

I think this makes complete sense. Families are tricky, or they can be, at least.

 

I'm not going to lie - we were all (well, myself and one other SIL who I'm very close with, can't speak for the others, but I'm assuming they felt the same) THRILLED when gift giving between the whole stopped for Christmas.

Seriously. Because I know these kids better than those kids but I want to get awesome gifts for everyone but I can't necessarily afford to spend hundreds of dollars etc etc etc.

 

It's just so much easier.

[PeacefulChaos]

:mellow: So do you think some of us are at home wrapping gifts with our kids saying "well Suzy, if Johnny doesn't send a thank you for this gift, he's an uneducated ape that we should shun".

 

I'm not going to speak for everyone. All I said was I at a minimum appreciate acknowledgment of receipt of a gift. That can be a text "Aunt Jane - I got your gift card. Thanks so much! Talk to you soon." If I get a thank you via e-mail or slow mail, I appreciate that too. I did have a couple of cards with money in them lifted at my wedding so I do like to know things made it to the right person. Yes, I do think it is good manners to acknowledge. But if I don't get one, it is no more than a passing thought.

 

What I would and do teach my kids is that relationships are 2 way streets. It's not anyone's duty to give and give while someone just takes. And that doesn't just mean in terms of gifts, but emotional support, time, etc. Healthy relationships are 2 way. I personally let people walk all over me as a young adult and I hope my kids would not chose to do the same. So no, I don't cut people off for not sending a thank you. If over time a relationship is dictated by primarily contact made by me, I do not do that for long. I personally don't know anyone who would cut off a relationship with another person for forgetting a single thank you. But a long term trend of non-responsiveness and distance? Sure. That's a much more nuanced thing than just saying someone who doesn't send thank yous = bad. There are people in my life who I know do not acknowledge gifts but I know do engage personally with me and appreciate me, so they are in my life.

 

Who knew expressing appreciation for a social nicety could be so controversial.

Unfortunately I can't multi-quote on my phone - sorry about that!

Just re: the last sentence, expressing appreciation for it isn't controversial. Only very few posters have said they really dislike thank yous. Most of what I've seen has either been in the middle (like me, don't care one way or another about receiving them) or staunchly pro-thank you to the extent of it being a relationship game changer.

Very few are saying thank yous in all forms are passé.

Most of those who don't care about RECEIVING them still do send them or have sent them and many are still teaching their kids the same.

 

So I don't really know what people are so bothered about, to make assumptions that people who are from a higher class obviously know better and such. Comments like that literally make me feel ill.

The thought of giving something as a gift to someone with strings attached feels icky to me. If a proper thank you note is required in order for the person to stay on the 'nice' list and still get 'good gifts' or even get gifts at all... That wasn't a gift in the first place.

 

I honestly think it's weird that people can't understand my aversion to that sentiment. It honestly does baffle me.

[PeacefulChaos]

Like you, I'm really stunned that this could be considered controversial.

 

Really...good manners are controversial now?

I'm stunned that people don't give gifts to give them, but as a measuring stick to decide if someone else is worthy.

Good manners are never controversial.

Making them into something worth disowning someone over is.

[Reefgazer]

The sentiment of not giving gifts or severing the relationship (which does seem a bit extreme to me) with those who don't write thank you notes isn't about "strings attached".  It's about the giver realizing that their efforts and thoughts were not appreciated, and *that* is what degrades the relationship.  But I suspect most people here understand this and just choose not to acknowledge that fact.

Unfortunately I can't multi-quote on my phone - sorry about that!
Just re: the last sentence, expressing appreciation for it isn't controversial. Only very few posters have said they really dislike thank yous. Most of what I've seen has either been in the middle (like me, don't care one way or another about receiving them) or staunchly pro-thank you to the extent of it being a relationship game changer.
Very few are saying thank yous in all forms are passé.
Most of those who don't care about RECEIVING them still do send them or have sent them and many are still teaching their kids the same.

So I don't really know what people are so bothered about, to make assumptions that people who are from a higher class obviously know better and such. Comments like that literally make me feel ill.
The thought of giving something as a gift to someone with strings attached feels icky to me. If a proper thank you note is required in order for the person to stay on the 'nice' list and still get 'good gifts' or even get gifts at all... That wasn't a gift in the first place.

I honestly think it's weird that people can't understand my aversion to that sentiment. It honestly does baffle me.